»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by masak on 12 May 2015.
ZoffixMobile Maybe the beer is making me too optimistic that everyone will play nice :D 00:00
dha @unlocalblog seems determined not to play nice, so I think your optimism is doomed. 00:01
dha doesn't think anyone on twitter has ever blocked him before...
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Ulti dha the best is his blog is about moving to Ruby on Rails *facepalm* blog.unlocalhost.com/ 00:06
ZoffixMobile rofl
Ulti lol
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Ulti in 2013 with the specific sour message that Perl 6 doesnt exist yet... 00:07
:'(
Hotkeys it's okay 00:08
2016 is the year of perl 6
dha I'm still really wondering how he thinks that brian's question about renaming LP has *anything* to do with competition between P5 and P6.
Ulti which is odd since I picked up the first R* release on day 0 realised it was uber slow beyond all recognition, but the language was so utterly exactly what I wanted I was sold completely
Hotkeys they even end in the same digit
:p
dha I'm honestly curious what the hell he's thinking.
Ulti R* today is something I can actually use, it took 5 years but I had Perl 5 the whole time its not like I lost anything at all only gained
hmm is it even 5 years? 00:09
was it 2010?
or later
Hotkeys R* = Rakudo star? 00:11
Ulti yeah
dha Hm. I get the impression he doesn't like Perl 5 much either...
Hotkeys for a second I thought you meant the stats language
Ulti I guess I can just check the first rakudo.org post
Hotkeys: :D
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Hotkeys I've just got bare rakudo rn because panda refuses to build 00:11
because json gets angry
or it did
maybe the newline thing fixed it
lets see 00:12
Ulti night \o 00:13
Hotkeys night
I need to get my desktop on windows 10 00:14
powershell/cmd are much nicer on 10 compared to 7
pink_mist I always install cygwin on windows .. comes with a proper shell and terminal emulator =) 00:15
AlexDaniel Hotkeys: there are operating systems with even better terminals and shells, you know :)
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Hotkeys AlexDaniel: shush you 00:18
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Hotkeys I can't be bothered with setting up linux for personal use 00:19
and while I hate the phrase: 'windows just works'
it does more or less :p
AlexDaniel
.oO( there's Ubuntu for that… )
Hotkeys pff 00:20
pink_mist but ubuntu suffers from being ubuntu ... and I don't really see how it can solve that issue :P
dha I have a Mac. I'm pretty happy with that. :-)
Hotkeys I would get a mac if they weren't so expensive but I'm a college student so :p
dha True, there is that. 00:21
Hotkeys well at least installing task::star is failing in a different way now 00:22
AlexDaniel pink_mist: I agree, but I think that it requires the least amount of thinking to set it up
Hotkeys Digest::MD5 is failing its tests
dha I just installed Task::Star without issue.
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Hotkeys It's probably a windows thing 00:23
I haven't been able to get task::star to build with panda since I started building stuff myself (instead of using the rakudo star binaries)
pastebin.com/B73pNwFb 00:24
for a while it was a line separator thing but I (with the help of psch and ugexe) fixed that one 00:25
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Hotkeys now it's this 00:25
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ZoffixW .botsnack 00:26
yoleaux :D
18 Nov 2015 23:01Z <diakopter___> ZoffixW: that's neat (demo modules site); really well done
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Zoffix diakopter, thanks. If only my $work code was of the same level of quality :P 00:26
ugexe Digest::MD5 fails tests on windows for me 00:27
Hotkeys cool
glad it isn't just a me problem
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retupmoca on my windows build: $ perl6 -e 'say "\n".perl' --> "\r\n" 00:31
that seems a bit too eager to try and fix line endings
Hotkeys afaik line ending stuff is curently all in Handle.pm 00:32
not sure though
actually that might be wrong
the line ending stuff I was concerned with was
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Hotkeys retupmoca: probably this github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4f...cf5426533f 00:38
not sure if that's a problem or that 00:39
Hotkeys is no expert
s/or that/or not/
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retupmoca yeah, that looks like the spot 00:40
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retupmoca I'd prefer that happen in the I/O layer somewhere, but meh. 00:42
that just means Digest::MD5 needs a 'use newline :nl;'
in the test file
err, :lf 00:45
ugexe if that doesnt work yet, the hard coded \n can be swaped out for $?NL
Hotkeys but doesn't \n already get swapped for $?NL 00:46
as seen above 00:47
retupmoca yeah, it already gets swapped - the problem is that makes the md5 value change, since it's a different string
Hotkeys ah
dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org/mojo-app:">modules.perl6.org/mojo-app: 23f6189 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | web/lib/ModulesPerl6.pm:
Fix up handlings of secrets
retupmoca so it needs to have a literal "\x0A" or 'use newline :lf;' in the test file 00:48
dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org/mojo-app:">modules.perl6.org/mojo-app: b658cbc | (Zoffix Znet)++ | DEPLOYMENT.md:
Update info about secrets
 00:50
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dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org/mojo-app:">modules.perl6.org/mojo-app: df747bb | (Zoffix Znet)++ | DEPLOYMENT.md:
Update deployment docs

Some paths are different now that we merged the mojo app and the db builder script dirs into one		 00:54
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dalek kudo/nom: ba2446b | peschwa++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/RakOps.java:
Revert "Fix p6typecheckrv for r-j."

This reverts commit 019bf1b1673550a00a0ebb3b4d505b9e2b458050.		 01:12
kudo/nom: 7781481 | peschwa++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/RakOps.java:
Properly fix RT #126673.

Thanks to timotimo++ for pointing out that we want to let Nil through, which automatically allows Failure because it recently became a subtype of Nil.
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dalek c: 9fe0eb0 | skids++ | doc/Language/classtut.pod:
Fix sigil.
 02:28
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raiph m: my @a[^4]; say @a[0] 03:33
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«Partially dimensioned views of arrays not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/pYPJAusGjE:1␤␤»
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dalek kudo-star-daily: 264ae79 | coke++ | log/ (3 files):
today (automated commit)
 03:36
rl6-roast-data: e38ff4e | coke++ | / (8 files):
today (automated commit)
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[Coke] bartolin++ 03:39
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[Coke] is not looking forward to rehashing all the old arguments again in the upcoming eternal christmas. 03:48
diakopter yay, eternal christmas 03:54
[Coke]: it's just, how do you say a billion times in different ways "people already discussed that, both worse and better" 03:55
[Coke] perhaps eventually we can harvest pointers to the best irc logs and feed them to bots who cna gently herd newcomers 03:57
all written in the finest perl 6, of course.
mst diakopter: you don't. you turn it into a bot factoid and invoke the factoid 03:59
diakopter quote from twit.tv/shows/triangulation/episodes/225
"we have the most extensible language ever [ we like to think ] but ... "
mst diakopter: it's not so much about frequenetly asked questions as frequently delivered answers
hence why e.g. #perl has factoids for "no, we're not helping you until you 'use strict'"
because after a certain number of repetations the explanation gets crankier
whereas the bot factoid can be tuned to be polite and firm
and remains that way indefinitely
quite a few of my blog posts are designed for a similar purpose 04:00
diakopter well, I'm not talking about questions, per se, these are "helpful suggestions/claims/assertions", that are usually based in vast misunderstanding, ignorance, and false beliefs, and so can't really be rephrased as cogent questions/inquiries 04:02
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diakopter but then again, that's most of everyone's utterances... :o 04:05
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mst diakopter: you're missing the point completely by focusing on questions even when I told you not to :) 04:15
diakopter: how about if you try considering it 'frequently delivered responses' and then re-run your train of thought? :) 04:16
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diakopter i see 04:33
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Hotkeys is there a way to assign multiple named variables with a list 06:27
like how you can do 'my ($a, $b, $c) = (1, 2, 3)' 06:28
but instead with named variables (eg in a .new)
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dalek ast: 8eafc4f | usev6++ | S (2 files):
Fudge tests for '\r\n' on JVM
 07:19
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[Tux] test 50000 22.064 21.950 07:59
test-t 50000 18.910 18.796
csv-parser 50000 29.349 29.236
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FROGGS [Tux]: wasn't it usually twice as slow in the past? 08:08
or do I miss something...
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[Tux] yes it was. lizmat++ for split (@needles, …) 08:09
tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed4.html 08:10
FROGGS wow 08:12
lizmat++ indeed
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Hotkeys <Hotkeys> is there a way to assign multiple named variables with a list 08:17
<Hotkeys> like how you can do 'my ($a, $b, $c) = (1, 2, 3)'
<Hotkeys> but instead with named variables (eg in a .new
or with a hash
lets say I've got a hash 'my %coords = x => 1, y => 3;' 08:19
er
this is a silly question
nvm
moritz m: my %coords = x => 1, y => 3; my (:$x, :$y) = %coords; say $x.perl; say $y.perl 08:20
yoleaux 18 Nov 2015 22:45Z <ZoffixW> moritz: I submitted the PR to merge the mojo-app branch for modules.perl6.org: github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/pull/26
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«:x(1)␤:y(3)␤»
moritz Hotkeys: they obvious way just works
Hotkeys oh 08:21
moritz .tell Zoffix I'll try to adjust the www server tonight; feel free to bug me if I forget
yoleaux moritz: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
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Hotkeys moritz: but can you inline that in a .new somehow, something like 'Point.new((:x, :y) => %coords)' 08:26
er
nine I felt kind of sad because lizmat++ did all those performance improvements but Tux' benchmark numbers stayed the same. Then she just blew off half the runtime with a casual "oh yeah, I guess we could improve that, too" (at least that's how I like to imagine it). lizmat is awesome :) 08:27
.tell lizmat irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-11-19#i_11564686
yoleaux nine: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
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Hotkeys moritz: never mind I figured it out 08:33
you can just do eg. 'Point.new(|%coords)' 08:34
forgot about the handy pipe thing
FROGGS Hotkeys: the | is not a pipe there, imagine it something flat, so it flattens the hash into pairs (named args) 08:36
grondilu in the last example of rosettacode.org/wiki/Permutations#Perl_6, apparently what is passed as argument is 'a', 'b', 'c', [] instead of just 'a','b','c'. It's weird. Making the function slurpy solves it.
Hotkeys I know it isn't a pipe that's just what I call the character FROGGS 08:37
FROGGS sure
but at least for me it helps to look at their visual appearance to remember their meanign 08:38
grondilu wonders what is the actual name of this character
FROGGS meaning*
.u |
yoleaux U+007C VERTICAL LINE [Sm] (|)
grondilu yeah, not too hard to guess
moritz m: say uniname('|')
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«VERTICAL LINE␤»
grondilu the other day I was amused to learn the French name of '@' : esperluette. Very rarely used. I wonder if we could have uniname('@', :$language) 08:39
Hotkeys FROGGS: fair enough
TEttinger grondilu: I wonder if that shares an etymology with spiral 08:40
grondilu TEttinger: plausible
Hotkeys grondilu: esperluette is an ampersand
grondilu ahhh 08:41
Hotkeys Arobase is the @ symbol
une arobasr
Rr
Er
grondilu you got me, I confused the characters
Hotkeys une arobase
Typing is hard
TEttinger I've heard of the slang term for @ as "snail"
grondilu esperluette is '&' indeed
Hotkeys I believe it TEttinger
TEttinger and I'd guess there's similar terms in other languages for @
FROGGS @ is Klammeraffe in German 08:42
TEttinger I'd be curious what icelandic calls it. that language has almost no official terms that are loaned from another language, they try to coin new ones that are authentically icelandic
grondilu TEttinger: just checked. The ethymology does not share anything with "spiral"
Hotkeys Swedish calls it snabel 08:44
Which means trunk 08:45
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Hotkeys Or proboscis 08:45
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TEttinger is.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-merki 08:46
at-"thing that sounds like mark"
Interestingly, the polish article on @ mentions perl pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma%C5%82pa_%...isarski%29 08:48
ah, very nice, english article has a section on what the names in other languages mean! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_sign#Name..._languages 08:50
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TEttinger interesting, despite the definite similarity to an ear, only kazakh and ukrainian ever have terms that are related to "ear" for @ 08:54
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Hotkeys AFAIK @ was pretty uncommon until email 08:56
TEttinger en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_sign#/med..._liten.jpg 08:57
that may have some shorthand, since it's from a court, but it's been around a few centuries 08:58
it looks like on the bootom left they use "govt" but that may be a swedish word 08:59
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jnthn morning, #perl6 09:46
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dalek p: 1aee3c0 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (2 files):
[js] Fix method sigatures, to unbreak after MoarVM update.
 09:50
p: 78aba1b | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/js/ (2 files):
[js] Implement nqp::isttyfh.
pmurias jnthn: morning 09:51
Hotkeys Morning jnthn 09:52
I should be getting to sleep soon
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jonas1 Don't know if anybody is working on this. But this is sort of inconsistent: 09:58
say \:a(1).perl,\(:a(1)).perl,|\:a(1).perl,|\(:a(1)).perl;
jnthn m: say \:a(1).perl,\(:a(1)).perl,|\:a(1).perl,|\(:a(1)).perl; 09:59
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«\(:a(1))\(:a(1))a => 1\(:a(1))␤»
xfix perl6: say "🇺🇸".chars 10:00
camelia rakudo-jvm 778148: OUTPUT«4␤»
..rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«1␤»
xfix Oh, it's 1 now. Nice :).
TEttinger xfix: what is that? it renders in a different font for me, but looks like "us" 10:01
xfix Emoji flag.
.u 🇺🇸 10:02
yoleaux U+1F1F8 REGIONAL INDICATOR SYMBOL LETTER S [So] (🇸)
U+1F1FA REGIONAL INDICATOR SYMBOL LETTER U [So] (🇺)
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TEttinger as if unicode wasn't confusing enough already... 10:02
xfix This is one character representing an United States flag.
TEttinger so those two become one symbol for a flag when rendered by an application that understands it? 10:03
xfix Pretty much.
TEttinger I'm guessing unicode isn't stepping in with an update to the database every time there's a new country
xfix For me, it appears as [U][S] in my IRC client, but curiously enough, I cannot select the characters separately.
jnthn Don't bet on it... :P
But yeah, RIs form grapheme clusters. 10:04
xfix perl6: say "🇺🇸🇺🇸".chars 10:07
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«1␤»
..rakudo-jvm 778148: OUTPUT«8␤»
xfix Unicode is complex.
... that should be 2, right?
Or not?
jnthn m: say uninames "����"
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«(REPLACEMENT CHARACTER REPLACEMENT CHARACTER REPLACEMENT CHARACTER REPLACEMENT CHARACTER)␤»
xfix Eh, I guess not.
jnthn gah 10:08
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TEttinger m: say uninames "🇺🇸🇺🇸" 10:08
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«(REGIONAL INDICATOR SYMBOL LETTER U REGIONAL INDICATOR SYMBOL LETTER S REGIONAL INDICATOR SYMBOL LETTER U REGIONAL INDICATOR SYMBOL LETTER S)␤»
jnthn xfix: Annex #29 doesn't say you should break around pairs, no
xfix I wonder how more than two regional indicators are supposed to be handled.
TEttinger usca might be california's flag 10:09
jnthn xfix: Mostly because they wanted you to be able to determine whether to break graphemes just by looking at the immediately surroudning chars.
xfix I see.
jnthn uh, codepoints
xfix perl6: say "நிநி".chars
camelia rakudo-jvm 778148: OUTPUT«4␤» 10:10
..rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«2␤»
TEttinger m: say "🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸".chars
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«1␤»
xfix Wow, that's a huge single character.
TEttinger haha indeed!
xfix It appears really large in my client, but I cannot select a single character.
ginkoms USUSUSUSUSUSUSUSUSUS
TEttinger that could be a gnarly method of encryption 10:11
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TEttinger using only regional indicator symbol letters in place of a-z 10:11
xfix .m say "﷽".chars 10:12
TEttinger a computer reading it might see only one char
xfix perl6: say "﷽".chars
camelia rakudo-{moar,jvm} 778148: OUTPUT«1␤»
xfix (should be 22, not really) 10:13
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RabidGravy right off to zummerzet 10:18
so you all on the otherside 10:19
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kolikov hi perl6 ! 10:19
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dalek p: bbf2eaf | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/jvm/ (4 files):
Implement a guessing nqp::isttyfh on the JVM (the JVM doesn't allow us to implement a fully correct version).
 10:25
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pmurias jnthn: we now have isttyfh on moarvm, js, jvm. once the pull request is merged I can bump the MoarVM version in nqp and send a rakudo pull request 10:30
ahh, there is a comment on the pull request. fixing 10:31
kolikov [1,2,3].push({return 4}); 10:32
:m [1,2,3].push({return 4});
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kolikov m: [1,2,3].push({return 4}); 10:35
camelia ( no output )
kolikov m: say [1,2,3].push({return 4});
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«[1 2 3 -> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|64969528) ... }]␤»
zengargoyle good * #perl6
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pmurias timotimo: updated my pull request 10:37
timotimo: the message on top of the oplist file needs to be updated 10:39
timotimo uh-oh. a highlight while i'm still backlogging ... 10:40
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pmurias timotimo: the message told me to add the op *at the end* instead of before the spesh ops 10:42
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dalek ast: 0c0b0a1 | jnthn++ | S12-methods/calling_sets.t:
Tests codifying decision on RT #119193.
 10:43
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kolikov m: [1,2,3].push(1==2 ?? 0 !! 4); 10:44
camelia ( no output )
kolikov m: say [1,2,3].push(1==2 ?? 0 !! 4);
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«[1 2 3 4]␤»
kolikov [1,2,3].push(1==2 ?? 0 !! 4); ... code is interpreted as-is wheras passing {} pushes the code block itself inside the array, am I right ? 10:47
jnthn Yes, {...} just pushes a closure
Though note that {...} blocks are transparent to return; return is only for sub/method
kolikov @jnthn : ok thank you ! 10:48
jnthn pmurias: Looking at your PRs now 10:49
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jnthn pmurias: It missed an update to a table in procops.c, which I've fixed. 10:55
And a whitespace oddness in oplist :)
JimmyZ and the new op is not in the order of interp.c 10:56
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pmurias how is interp.c ordered? 10:59
JimmyZ op order
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jnthn Nice catch 11:01
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jnthn Will probably end up generalizing that possibly_tty vtable later 11:01
But it's OK for now
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jnthn pmurias: Merged the Moar patch 11:02
pmurias: Ordered same as in oplist
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pmurias jnthn: thank you 11:07
jnthn Thanks for the patch :) 11:09
JimmyZ next: my pr:)
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timotimo psch: actually all i wanted was for you to re-name "SixModelObject failure" to "SixModelObject nil" in the method signature %) 11:20
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kolikov m: say [1,2,3].push(|[4,5,6]); 11:23
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«[1 2 3 4 5 6]␤»
kolikov m: [1,2,3].push([4,5,6].flat);
camelia ( no output )
kolikov m: say [1,2,3].push([4,5,6].flat); 11:24
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«[1 2 3 (4 5 6)]␤»
kolikov ?? flat flatens ??
Zoffix m: say [1,2,3].append([4,5,6].flat) 11:26
yoleaux 08:21Z <moritz> Zoffix: I'll try to adjust the www server tonight; feel free to bug me if I forget
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«[1 2 3 4 5 6]␤»
Zoffix m: say [4,(4, 5), 5,6].flat 11:27
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«(4 (4 5) 5 6)␤»
Zoffix ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
jnthn .flat flattens lists until it encoutners a Scalar container 11:28
An Array is defiend as a bunch of things in Scalar containers.
So .flat on an Array is identity
timotimo okay, finally caught up
jnthn Quick, make more backlog 11:29
timotimo damn, that discussion about "omg perl6 is killing perl5" again ... not in word, but in spirit
Zoffix jnthn++ thanks
nine Well christmas will hopefully mark the end of the "rename it to something else" suggestions 11:30
Zoffix timotimo, I think it was more about "what the hell do we name the new edition of this popular book we have now that Perl 6 is a thing" :)
11:32 brrt left
kolikov m: say [1,2,3].append([4,['hi'],5,6]); 11:33
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«[1 2 3 4 [hi] 5 6]␤»
kolikov m: say [1,2,3].push([4,['hi'],5,6]); 11:34
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«[1 2 3 [4 [hi] 5 6]]␤»
dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org/mojo-app:">modules.perl6.org/mojo-app: 69c8711 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | web/lib/ModulesPerl6 (3 files):
Call FindBin the recommended way

Using it more than once is not supposed to work and the docs ask to use FindBin->again
11:34 rindolf joined
kolikov Ok ! 11:34
jnthn .push given one argument always treats it as one thing, so @foo.push(@bar.pop) won't doing weird things to you if you .pop an Array.
timotimo Zoffix: that was only a tiny part of it 11:38
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znpy g 11:40
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dalek p: 11304c2 | (Pawel Murias)++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
Bump MoarVM for the isttyfh op.
 11:43
p: 288c86b | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp:
Add op mapping for nqp::isttyfh.
p: cbd65ce | (Pawel Murias)++ | t/nqp/19-file-ops.t:
Add a test for nqp::isttyfh on a regular file.
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timotimo nice. isatty is a much-wanted feature. has been for a long time 11:46
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jnthn Indeed. It was on my todolist for next week. pmurias++ for making it not be :) 11:49
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quietfanatic m: "1234" ~~ regex { <digit>* { $/.make: $<digit>.map({+$_}); say $/.made } }; 11:51
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«This Seq has already been iterated, and its values consumed␤ in regex at /tmp/iMuqggv1Bt:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/iMuqggv1Bt:1␤␤»
quietfanatic bug?
stmuk act.yapc.eu/lpw2015/news/1369
:D
Zoffix :) 11:52
11:53 Amnez777 left
zengargoyle m: "1234" ~~ regex { <digit>* { $/.make: [$<digit>.map({+$_})]; say $/.made } }; 11:53
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«[1 2 3 4]␤»
jnthn quietfanatic: Depends. If .make is spec'd to return the thing that was passed to it then it's going to end up sinking the Seq. 11:54
timotimo stmuk: i have no idea who is involved in this, but could whoever is in charge please, please, please for the love of god make sure there's a proper microphone and recording setup for that keynote?
jnthn But I'm not sure it's actually stated either way.
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jnthn just learned he's keynoting :) 11:54
nine Ah maybe I should go to LPW after all :)
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timotimo nine: i couldn't bear watching your latest talk because the audio quality was so shoddy ;( 11:55
quietfanatic I guess I can see how that would be, but it's a bit surprising
jnthn Guess I better get writing :-)
nine timotimo: darn :/
quietfanatic m: "1234" ~~ regex { <digit>* { $/.make: $<digit>.map({+$_}) } }; say $/.made
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«(1 2 3 4)␤»
timotimo nine: did you have a look yet?
quietfanatic also, that works.
nine timotimo: a look at what? 11:56
11:56 ginkoms joined
timotimo that recording 11:57
dalek kudo/nom: c827c6f | jnthn++ | src/ (6 files):
Support `is BaseType` and shaped array attributes.
ast: 013c609 | jnthn++ | S09-multidim/decl.t:
Test shaped arrays as attributes.
 11:58
ast: e23a3aa | jnthn++ | S02-types/is-type.t:
Test `is BaseType` on state vars and attrs.

Passes for attributes, not yet for state vars.
nine Yes. Unfortunatley I couldn't find free echo cancellation software. However the sound could be improved by just increasing the volume except for the two places where it's really loud already.
Zoffix Is there source code for camelia? 11:59
timotimo really? just by making it louder?
moritz Zoffix: perl6/evalbot on github
Zoffix thanks
11:59 Amnez777 left
jnthn I guess nothing sinks it in that case 11:59
Which is also kinda...interesting.
12:00 Amnez777 joined
stmuk timotimo: it's mdk Mark Keating 12:00
timotimo not reachable in here? 12:01
jnthn I'm not sure lpw is usually recorded, but I've not been for a couple of years. 12:02
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stmuk timotimo: on the perl irc servers 12:02
perl5 people use magnet not freenode
timotimo right 12:03
jnthn Maybe somebody can arrange to do a decent quality bootleg ;)
stmuk I think they are (usually) recorded but where they go (youtube accn etc) is erratic 12:04
quietfanatic m: my $x := (1,2).map({$_}); $x; say $x
camelia rakudo-moar 778148: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of variable $x in sink context (line 1)␤(1 2)␤»
stmuk www.youtube.com/user/ShadowcatSystems
maybe there 12:05
nine Darn....LPW conflicts with our company christmas party
quietfanatic sinking the Seq doesn't clear it in this case.
stmuk I'll be using an iphone with a 10EU/Pound tripod as a backup :)
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timotimo stmuk: depending on the room it could be super bad :\ 12:12
jdv79 stmuk: is something going on in london ia a few days? 12:13
stmuk I figure bad is better than potentially nothing
timotimo hmm. maybe 12:14
stmuk jdv79: yes a large number of perl events check london.pm.org/
timotimo someone with good patience could put subtitles up
jdv79 k 12:15
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cygx o/ 12:16
is there a demand for an asm-like interface to MAST?
specifically gist.github.com/cygx/f08da6caf35c7f3de1ff
12:16 Amnez777 left
cygx if so, I might put in the extra effort, parse the oplist and add it to the ecosystem 12:17
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jdv79 why would that be useful? 12:17
pink_mist I think he's asking if it would, not saying it would [be useful] 12:18
cygx well, I'm using it as backend for a compiler that targets MoarVM specifically
timotimo cygx: no need to parse the oplist
jnthn cygx: I've not seen much demand for that, though it may make it easier to target Moar without using the NQP toolchain
timotimo though to be fair, the p6 module that has the oplist data in it is inside moarvm's tools folder 12:19
Skarsnik Hello. Should/Could I create a branch in rakudo to work on NC? I already has a fork for a pull request, and it's a bit different (And I can't compile in the fork, configure.pl refuse to work with the forked repository) 12:20
pmurias jnthn: made a pull request to Rakudo that fixes #124017
jnthn cygx: I decided early on that we'll not have an "official" MoarVM assembly langauge or integrate an assembler into the VM itself. But of course I've nothing against people building such an assembler. :)
cygx jnthn: well, it's not a real assembler (no teaxtual input), just a convenience wrapper over MAST that looks like one ;) 12:21
jnthn Any reason not to produce QAST? 12:22
Or rather, what's the reason...I can think of legitimate ones :)
Just curious :)
pmurias jnthn: what would be a legitimate reason for that? 12:23
cygx eventually, I want to be self-hosting, independent of NQP
jnthn That's one. :) 12:24
dalek kudo/nom: 46c7c07 | jnthn++ | src/core/Array.pm:
.keys, .values, et al. on shaped arrays.
 12:25
pmurias cygx: what language are you writing a compiler for?
dalek ast: d032537 | jnthn++ | S09-multidim/methods.t:
Test .keys, .values, et al. on shaped arrays.
 12:26
cygx pmurias: my own pet language 12:29
dalek kudo/nom: 7546b0d | (Pawel Murias)++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
Bump NQP to get nqp::isttyfh.
 12:31
kudo/nom: f9696dd | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
Fix IO::Handle.t.

Fixes #123347.
kudo/nom: 3806c10 | jnthn++ | / (2 files):
Merge pull request #592 from pmurias/tty-checking

Fix IO::Handle.t.
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jnthn pmurias: Thanks! If you've a moment to get some spectests in into roast for it, then we'll be another xmas RT down. :) 12:32
timotimo jnthn: was there a decision about how/if assignment from list-of-list to shaped array would work?
cygx pmurias: over the years, it's gone through several revisions, but has only ever had partial implementations
the current version is starting to look like a love child of Perl6 and Python 12:33
jnthn timotimo: Kinda :) irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-09-11#i_11201188
timotimo neat. 12:34
jnthn Writing tests for that to explore it a bit more is one of my next tasks. 12:35
But, lunch first :) 12:36
pmurias jnthn: testing that is hard
jnthn: I can easily test if it works on something that is not a tty, but there is no guarantee that while running a test we have a tty 12:37
jnthn pmurias: Agree it's hard to do a positive test, but a negative test (a file certainly ain't a tty) is good
jdv79 mmm lunch
jnthn Right.
That'll do. I just want us to know in the tests it doesn't explode, like now.
bbiab &
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nine timotimo: speaking of subtitles, I usually provide them for my own talks: niner.name/talks/Building%20Bridges...ridges.pdf start at page 41 12:43
timotimo nice
12:44 CIAvash left
timotimo nine: that's only slides; did you mean to link me to a version that also has the speaker's annotations? 12:44
and god damn it, i keep using 's for genitive even though that's german, not english 12:45
nine timotimo: starting at page 41 its slides + text
timotimo something must be wrong on my end, then 12:46
because i really only see the slides :\
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nine timotimo: there's also the original .odp file containing the notes: niner.name/talks/Building%20Bridges/ 12:47
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dalek ast: 90735d5 | (Pawel Murias)++ | S16-filehandles/io.t:
Test .t on a file handle opened from a regular file. Bug from RT #123347
 12:52
12:52 Actualeyes joined
Ven hi, #perl6 :) 12:53
pmurias Ven: hi
12:54 kid51 left
[ptc] Ven: o/ 12:55
timotimo heya ven 12:56
nine: nice slides :) 13:02
nine: and of course: nice modules, too! 13:05
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pmurias perl6: class Foo:no_such_adverbial {} 13:17
camelia ( no output )
pmurias adverbials when defining classes should be illegal?
jnthn pmurias: Yeah. It's one of the xmas RTs 13:18
pmurias: Exception: :ver and :auth
pmurias jnthn: I'm trying to fix that RT 13:19
jnthn pmurias: Nice :) 13:22
pmurias: We can go with forbidding all for now; there's a seprate RT (not on the xams list (at least yet)) about ver/auth
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ZoffixW Is anyone available to pull camelia and restart her? I found a security hole that allows execution of arbitrary code. 13:25
(pull after I push the commit that fixes the issue that is)
moritz ZoffixW: yes 13:26
stmuk POC? :)
dalek albot: 196aa24 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | / (4 files):
Escape special shell chars in qx//
ZoffixW moritz, ^ 13:27
One of those is a hole, but I quotemetaed all other qx// just in case their code changes in the future. 13:28
moritz huh, it resists restarting :( 13:30
Skarsnik one nativecall test does not pass for me. (06-struct) anyone else?
ZoffixW hm
moritz, any error messages?
cygx
.oO( I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that )
 13:31
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ZoffixW m: say "Test" 13:31
:/
gfldex looks like you fixed all possible security holes in one go :-> 13:32
ZoffixW lol
13:32 ChanServ sets mode: +v camelia
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Test␤» 13:32
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ZoffixW stmuk, I couldn't think of anything non-destructive that would also produce the output. But if you're curious, the hole was on this line. You could simply append ";" after a github URL and type any shell command there: github.com/perl6/evalbot/blob/196a...ter.pm#L95 13:33
stmuk I think technically \Q \E quotes regular expression metacharacters rather than shell ones 13:35
ilmari the proper way is String::ShellQuote 13:36
ZoffixW "Only Bourne shell quoting is supported"
stmuk, it backslashes all \W. Regex is just one use :) 13:37
Anyway. Time to do some work \o 13:38
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dalek kudo/nom: 1c0a07b | jnthn++ | src/core/Array.pm:
Fill out more methods on shaped arrays.
 13:40
ast: 20160ee | jnthn++ | S09-multidim/methods.t:
Test more methods on multi-dim arrays.
Skarsnik damn working on rakudo/nqp/moar that I use to install system wide is a nightmare x) 13:41
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jnthn Skarsnik: So work on a development copy? :) 13:45
Skarsnik Well since moar/nqp/rakudo are 3 separate project they tend to mix the use of stuff in their directory with installed stuff 13:46
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jnthn Skarsnik: Being consistent with the --prefix you use to build them should avoid that, afaik. 13:47
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mspo Skarsnik: yes 13:52
two of them are missing DESTDIR support, iirc
I have been trying to get some round-toits to try and patch it in 13:53
Skarsnik I had to remove the install on /opt to have something that work again x)
mspo lack of DESTDIR also makes it difficult to package for pkgsrc, which is my main reason for wanting it
Skarsnik I have a dumb question: If rakudo (and not panda) precompile package, how that can work with an user using a system wide installed perl6? rakudo will not have the right to create the precompile file? (espcially in a scenarii with the root doing panda install --notest Module) 13:55
mspo I think MoarVM has full DESTDIR support, nqp has none, and rakudo support looking for (moar?) inside of DESTDIR but nothing else 13:56
jnthn Skarsnik: The module will still be precompiled at install time, it's just that Rakudo will do that 13:57
nine Skarsnik: if you're able to install a module (write a file into a system directory) you should be able to put the precompiled file there, too.
mspo Skarsnik: it will use things in PREFIX during the build if it can find them 13:58
jnthn (e.g. panda will call Rakudo to do it)
mspo Skarsnik: caveat what I said about using destdir
pmurias perl6: class Foo {}; augment Foo:auth<pmurias> {}
camelia rakudo-moar, rakudo-jvm c827c6: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Invalid type smiley 'auth' used in type name␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> 3class Foo {}; augment Foo:auth<pmurias>7⏏5 {}␤»
pmurias perl6: class Foo {}; augment class Foo:auth<pmurias> {}
camelia rakudo-moar, rakudo-jvm c827c6: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤augment not allowed without 'use MONKEY-TYPING'␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> 3 Foo {}; augment class Foo:auth<pmurias>7⏏5 {}␤ expecting any of:␤ generic role␤»
Skarsnik Oh ok, so it still get precompiled at installation. I understood it was only at the first use ^^
pmurias jnthn: should an :auth/:ver be allowed with augment? 13:59
nine Skarsnik: only FileSystem repositories precompile at first use. That's the ones you add with perl6 -I or PERL6LIB or use lib
jnthn pmurias: No 14:02
mspo oh are you talking about code compile/run and not actual rakudo compile run?
jnthn Skarsnik: No, fisrst use is for things like -Ilib 14:03
When doing development
nine Development or deployment by git checkout
Skarsnik err, how do I force to recompile a lib? (should it check the date modified?)
nine Skarsnik: it checks the modifcation date
btw. jnthn Repository::FileSystem already checks the transitive dependencies :) 14:04
jnthn nine: Nice!
nine: What would you consider as remaining to do in the branch?
nine jnthn: transitive checks in Repository::Installation. The rest should be just some detail and cleanup work. And of course much testing with an actual panda :) 14:05
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jnthn Aye :) 14:06
nine++ # awesome work
Skarsnik perl6 -Ilib t/04-nativecall/06-struct.t
-> display a message from NC I just corrected 'Considere adding the api version of the library you want to use, eg' I corrected the 'Considere' spelling but it still use etheir the precompield file (or the installed one)
NC.pm is in lib/ 14:07
jnthn nine: Recompiing the transitively impacted things is part of the work for Repository::Installation, yes?
nine Skarsnik: to be clear, I was talking about my current development in the curli branch. Rakudo nom is different
jnthn: yes
jnthn Skarsnik: Jsut type "make"
Cool
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Skarsnik Ok thx ^^ 14:07
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Skarsnik for my installation issue: What I did: 1 week ago I installed rakudo/nqp/moar in opt/. today I git pull each part and rerun make (and make install) but each part did a bad mix I think and it did not work. I had to remove /opt/* and recompile/reinstall 14:10
tadzik metacpan.org/pod/install genius 14:14
Skarsnik Nice module x) 14:15
tadzik I just did a 'cpanm install App::Ack' 14:16
and it Just Worked. By installing 'install' first
jnthn :D
Skarsnik Is there something to display message on std error (like warn) that does put the Module name/Line? 14:17
*does not 14:18
tadzik note, perhaps?
jnthn note
Note that you can't catch it with CONTROL or suppress it with quietly, though, since it just outputs to stderr, rather than being a warning control exception. 14:19
nine note is one of my favourite features :)
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jnthn It may be notably faster because of that, though... :) 14:19
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Skarsnik Maybe you can give me some feedback I work on rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=126645 and if the user does not put the api version I warn (because it will probably not work) but the issue it warn for the tests that use a local lib file. They put ('./file') should I check the case where it look like a path and not a name and not warn? (it already don't warn if you write 'libfoo.1.so') 14:23
pmurias jnthn: do we need a typed exception for the class Foo:D {} error? 14:24
jnthn pmurias: Yes, if nothing else 'cus it lets us write a robust test 14:25
nine Skarsnik: please keep in mind that not all library files have versions in their name. Most notably libperl.so (which is /usr/lib/perl5/5.20.1/i586-linux-thread-multi/CORE/libperl.so here). 14:26
Skarsnik what?
it's not a symlink? 14:27
nine Not a symlink, no.
pmurias jnthn: I'm not sure how to call the exceptions, one for class Foo:adverb {}, other for augment class Foo:adverb {} 14:28
nine Also libraries that are compiled as part of the Perl 6 module's installation probably won't have a version. Like Inline::Perl5's p5helper.so
pmurias jnthn: X::Syntax::Augment::Adverb X::Syntax::Class::UnsupportedAdverb? 14:29
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Skarsnik That weird, all the document about creating lib (linux/bsd) say you should always have a so.apiversion 14:30
nine should != must
And perl5 is probably older than those documents ;)
jnthn pmurias: First one is OK, second is a bit off since it applies to things other than classes 14:31
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jnthn pmurias: Ooh, you could just re-use X::Syntax::Adverb 14:32
Though X::Syntax::Regex::Adverb's wording is closer
Maybe for the second one an X::Syntax::Type::Adverb would be better
So, X::Syntax::Augment::Adverb and X::Syntax::Type::Adverb 14:33
Skarsnik yes, but for a normal lib (that ld will load) with just its name it will not work if you don't put the api version (the .so symlink is in the dev package for debian, and I think fedora is the same)
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Skarsnik hm, printf("%d\n", dlopen("libperl.so", RTLD_GLOBAL)); fail for me (print 0) 14:39
nine Skarsnik: libperl.so is probably not in your LD_LIBRARY_PATH 14:40
Skarsnik root@testperl6:~# apt-file search libperl.so 14:41
libperl-dev: /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libperl.so
libperl5.20: /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libperl.so.5.20
libperl5.20: /usr/lib/i386-linux-gnu/libperl.so.5.20.2
that an interesting issue x)
nine Skarsnik: the way I handle it in Inline::Perl5 is that I compile a p5helper.so with gcc -Wall p5helper.c `perl -MExtUtils::Embed -e ccopts -e ldopts` -shared 14:42
timotimo we should use ldconfig -p
nine Skarsnik: this p5helper.so gets installed as a resource alongside Inline/Perl5.pm6 and I load it with the complete path
Skarsnik That why it should not warn if you give it a full path 14:43
nine Skarsnik: yep :)
Skarsnik I just try to handle case with is native('libfoo')
in this case you are up for trouble without the api version
the issue the test in NC call this like that: is native('./stuff') without the extension ~~ 14:45
[Coke] release today... if I ever make it home. 14:46
last RC candidate before christmas!
ugexe :o 14:47
skids m: my $a = Lock.new; $a.lock().say; $a.lock().say; 42.say; # Could have sworn I saw those being used, maybe deserves an NYI at least. 14:48
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Lock.new␤Lock.new␤42␤»
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jnthn skids: What? 14:48
timotimo this time i have no crazy addition that i'll be sad about not getting into the release candidate
skids Should the second one not deadlock?
jnthn No
Lock is reentrant. 14:49
timotimo locks are reentrant by default
do we have non-reentrant locks?
jnthn No
Only reentrant ones.
timotimo k
skids ah. ok.
jnthn Locks are uncomposable enough as it is, without making them non-reentrant... :)
Skarsnik hm, should I expose sub guess_library_name($lib) of NC with our? Make writing test less annoying and probably be useful for users? 14:50
jnthn Skarsnik: Or maybe better export it under a tag so it can be optionally imported 14:54
Skarsnik our make it available only with NC::mysub()? 14:55
dalek ast: f14aab4 | jnthn++ | S09-multidim/assign.t:
Tests for assigning to typed arrays.
 14:57
jnthn Skarsnik: Yes
Skarsnik: But that's not very idiomatic in Perl 6.
(IMO :))
dalek kudo/nom: dc40b1c | jnthn++ | src/core/ (2 files):
Implement assignment to shaped arrays.
 14:58
Skarsnik I need to came up with a name for the export now, debug? xD 14:59
dalek kudo/nom: e867b31 | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
Run S09-multidim/assign.t.
jnthn :libraries maybe 15:00
pmurias jnthn: I made a pull request, the spectest is still running (propably should have waited). I have unpushed tests for roast. 15:02
jnthn pmurias: Looking at it 15:04
pmurias: We don't tend to put "." on the end of errors 15:05
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jnthn And I think a better wording is "Cannot put adverbs on a typename when augmenting" and "Cannot use adverb $.adverb on a type name (only 'ver' and 'auth' are understood)" 15:07
pmurias: Want to tweak the PR, or shall I?
stmuk in perl5 I used to use "undef" as a sink variable to throw away a result, what's the p6 version? 15:08
Skarsnik hm, whre is the complete doc of Test? (like all the method and such?) Like if there a way to know if a warning occur? x)
timotimo stmuk: you can assign Nil to a variable
pink_mist timotimo: no, he's talking about assigning _to_ undef
timotimo: the other way around
timotimo huh?
ugexe $ = $result ?
timotimo why would that do anything? 15:09
pink_mist timotimo: it would discard the return value
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timotimo so .. you want to prevent something from being sunk or do you explicitly want something to be sunk? 15:09
zengargoylew Skarsnik: you have to look at either the specs or the source of Test.pm
i haven't found any other 'real' documentation really vs looking at Test.pm 15:10
pink_mist timotimo: he wants to assign some, and discard other values return by a subroutine
timotimo ugexe: i'm confused why you're asking a musician about his thoughts on perl6 %)
oh
zengargoylew minor nit is that: p6doc Test does no good. :P
pink_mist *returned
timotimo ($a, $, $foo) = blah() 15:11
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[Coke] It should eventually be on doc.perl6.org, but isn't yet. 15:11
nine Skarsnik: if I want to import guess_library_name why not just write use NativeCall <guess_library_name>? 15:13
Skarsnik oh that work?
pmurias jnthn: I'll tweak it
timotimo i think it does
nine Export tags are code obfuscation. You look at a function name and the only way to find out where it's coming from is by going through the docs of all used modules.
timotimo m: sub ret_many() { 1, 2, 3, 4 }; my ($a, $b, $c, $d) = ret_many; say $a; say $c; say $d; 15:14
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1␤3␤4␤»
timotimo m: sub ret_many() { 1, 2, 3, 4 }; my ($a, $, $, $b) = ret_many; say $a; say $b
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1␤4␤»
pink_mist nine: and that's assuming the module 1: has docs. 2: documents that function. 3: documents that function as being exported :P
zengargoylew thought 'use <foo>' required custom EXPORT stuff
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jnthn pmurias: Thanks. Lemme know when it's done and if the tests come out clean :) 15:15
Skarsnik nine, use NativeCall <guess_library_name>; 15:16
call it after just don't work (it can find the routine)
nine Skarsnik: I'm not sure about the syntax 15:17
zengargoylew i believe you have to write your own &EXPORT routine to do that
pmurias jnthn: still waiting for the tests (not re-running them with the tweaked msgs) 15:18
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pink_mist timotimo: in perl5 you can also use ($bar, (undef)x5, $quux) = foo for example to discard 5 values 15:22
zengargoylew and it would be: use <&guess_library_name>;
timotimo m: sub ret_many() { 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 }; my ($a, $b); ($a, |($ xx 6), $b) = ret_many; say $a; say $b 15:23
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1␤(Any)␤»
timotimo not like that :\
m: sub ret_many() { 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 }; my ($a, $b); ($a, |($ xx 5), $b) = ret_many; say $a; say $b
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1␤7␤»
timotimo but like that!
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pink_mist a shame you need to predeclare there 15:24
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timotimo m: sub ret_many() { 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 }; my ($a, |($ xx 5), $b) = ret_many; say $a; say $b 15:25
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/BAQc8cx9pC␤Malformed parameter␤at /tmp/BAQc8cx9pC:1␤------> 3y() { 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 }; my ($a, |($7⏏5 xx 5), $b) = ret_many; say $a; say $b␤ expecting any of:␤ constraint␤»
timotimo yeah
pmurias jnthn: spectest passed 15:26
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zengargoylew thought doc.perl6.org had a more complex example of custom EXPORT but i can't find it now... 15:28
jnthn zengargoylew: use Foo <list of things> needs EXPORT sub; use Foo :tag; doesn't 15:30
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dalek kudo/nom: e66c52e | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/ (2 files):
Throw exceptions when unsupported adverbs are passed during type definition or augmentation.

Fix ticket 124017.		 15:30
kudo/nom: b591c88 | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
Tweak error messages.
kudo/nom: 7e3d0b8 | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
Merge pull request #593 from pmurias/restrict-adverbs-on-class

Throw exceptions when unsupported adverbs are passed during type defi…
15:30 zakharyas joined
jnthn pmurias: Push the tests when you're ready :) 15:31
pmurias++
dalek ast: a9d04f4 | (Pawel Murias)++ | S12-class/ (2 files):
Test that adverbs are illegal when augmenting a class and only :auth/:ver are legal when declaring one.

Bug #124017.
pmurias jnthn: pushed
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jnthn pmurias: Thanks; ticket resolved :) 15:32
Down to 40 xmas RTs 15:34
And I'm on course to close 2 more later today, or tomorrow morning failing that :)
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[ptc] jnthn++ \o/ 15:36
Skarsnik hm, what more could I test? pastebin.com/UcYWyD5y (only unix test) 15:37
pmurias m: my num $a; my num32 $b; my num64 $c; say $a;say $b;say $c; 15:40
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«NaN␤0␤NaN␤»
pmurias what should that return?
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Skarsnik Interesting 15:41
m: my num32 $a; my num64 $b; say $a == $b; 15:42
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤»
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pmurias m: say NaN == NaN 15:44
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤»
Skarsnik m: my num32 $a; my num64 $b; say $a eq $b;
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤»
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jnthn pmurias: NaN, but I think those tickets will get really nasty and need some changes down in the Moar bytecode assembler 15:50
pmurias: 'cus we're probably getting away with things we should not be in the code-gen
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jnthn m: say "{40 / 28} tickets / day" 15:52
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1.428571 tickets / day␤»
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MadcapJake What are some commonly used delimiters for regexes? I have to explicitly support each one in language-perl6fe. 15:57
tadzik I've mostly seen //, {} and [] used in the code
moritz MadcapJake: s///, s!!!, s{...} = foo and s[...] = foo 15:58
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MadcapJake cool, four is a good start, I can always add another if anyone asks. 15:58
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Skarsnik I think I saw some ~~ ? 15:59
Juerd I've seen s~~~ in Perl 5 code. Hated it.
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MadcapJake ok I can add support for that one as well. I've seen `|` used in sed before, I might just add that one as well ":) 16:02
dalek rl6-roast-data: 71dc04a | coke++ | / (9 files):
today (automated commit)
 16:03
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timotimo hum. how does IO::Socket::Async.connect actually work ... 16:06
Skarsnik Can a create a branch on rakudo for my NC stuff? (I already have a fork with a pending PR) 16:07
[Coke] NC?
Skarsnik NativeCall 16:08
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[Coke] I see no problem with a branch, no. 16:08
timotimo is IO::Socket::Async fully functional on our jvm backend? 16:09
[Coke] timotimo: without knowing anything about it, guessing no. ;) 16:10
any incoming nqp changes soon?
stmuk I sort of wish www.perl6.org/archive/* no longer existed since it seems to have too much google juice
jnthn [Coke]: Not from me. 16:12
[Coke] jnthn: I was just asking you. :) 16:13
jnthn The shaped array stuff is all Rakudo level, and relatively low risk release wise since it's adding new things rather than changing existing things :) 16:14
.oO( famous last words... )
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arnsholt Well, it adding a new feature probably won't break any of the existing ones 16:14
Probably =)
Skarsnik Oh rakudo is not in perl6. I can't do stuff with it x) 16:15
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hoelzro o/ #perl6 16:16
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psch timotimo: i don't know about renaming, the type check was definitely wrong with my first commit re RT #126673 though... 16:27
i mean, in general i think we're more likely to expect a Failure than Nil, except if people start returning Nil often
i do have to admit that i found "failure" there a bit weird in general, but i didn't look too closely - i'd expected "returnValue" or something, but maybe that'd be semantically wrong 16:28
psch checks how p6typecheckrv is actually used...
timotimo but Failure is derived from Nil now
that's why we check against that, because both are supposed to go through
and we pass the type to check against to the op 16:29
psch ohh 16:30
right, doesn't that mean that the original istype is just the wrong way around?
pmurias_ hoelzro: hi
psch 'cause if rv contains a Failure and we check istype(Nil, Failure)
hoelzro o/ pmurias_ 16:31
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psch hm, still missing an NQP_REVISION bump for isatty? 16:32
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ZoffixW Does anyone has edit perms on the wiki (or is willing to give them to my account) www.perlfoundation.org/perl6/index.cgi?perl_6 so we could close github.com/perl6/perl6.org/issues/14 ? 16:34
psch IIOPossiblyTTY isn't in the NQP repository..? 16:35
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MadcapJake language-perl6fe updated to v0.5.0 (quoting constructs, heredocs, and pod formatting codes) Here's a screenshot of some of the quoting work twitter.com/MadcapJake/status/6673...4708846592 16:36
psch pmurias: did you overlook adding IIOPossiblyTTY.java to the git repo before pushing..?
'cause that's what's not found and causing my nqp-j not to build
or rather, the interface IIOPossiblyTTY isn't found, and i'd expect it to be in that file (and there's no inline class definition) 16:37
ZoffixW MadcapJake, it's a plugin for atom right? How do I get/install it? 16:38
retupmoca MadcapJake++ 16:40
MadcapJake ZoffixW: «Ctrl+,» opens the settings tab, then go to «Install» and type `perl6`. There's one unfortunate caveat, you'll either need to disable `language-perl` (Which highlights perl 5 & 6) or you'll need to click on the `Perl 6` filetype on the modeline and search for `Perl 6 FE`. 16:41
Personally I just like to disable it (each package enabled adds to startup time too) as I don't work with Perl 5 at all, but I am looking for a better solution. 16:42
Skarsnik hm, still no perl6 in travis? 16:44
[ptc] Skarsnik: there should be
Skarsnik I mean can we stop building everything in the travis file? x) 16:45
[ptc] Skarsnik: docs.travis-ci.com/user/languages/perl6/
Skarsnik Oh neat 16:46
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[ptc] Skarsnik: if it doesn't work, let me know! 16:46
Skarsnik I will check later, I have to go :)
ZoffixW MadcapJake, well, I think it's got installed: i.imgur.com/kQ5fmW1.png 16:48
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hoelzro not perl6, but I think Elm is a really cool language and they have some good advice re: compilers: elm-lang.org/blog/compilers-as-assistants 16:48
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PerlJam \ 16:48
hoelzro (which I think Perl6 does a good job at too =])
MadcapJake ZoffixW: sweet! do you like it? Let me know if you find something that needs fixing, I'm a p6 noob! 16:50
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MadcapJake Looks like I gotta add support for unicode to variables (your `$Δ` isn't captured) 16:51
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ZoffixW MadcapJake, well, I don't remember what it looked like with the default highlighter, so it's hard to say if I like it. I've no idea how to reinable the language-perl package :P 16:52
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ZoffixW MadcapJake, my \x = 42; also doesn't highlight "x" 16:53
arnsholt MadcapJake: If your regex language supports querying by Unicode property, getting P6 identifiers right should be pretty straightforward
MadcapJake ZoffixW: just go back into the «Packages» menu in the Settings tab and scroll way down (they put all disabled packages at the bottom.
I sometimes like to open a split and (with `language-perl` enabled) see the difference by selecting `Perl 6 FE` from the modeline for one of the buffers. 16:54
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MadcapJake ZoffixW: ok, those are sigiless variables right? Should they just be highlighted the same as sigiled ones? 16:54
moritz IMHO it's OK to hilight them just like identifier (type names, constants etc.) 16:55
ZoffixW MadcapJake, ah ok. I see yours highlights more stuff (version, ops in the multi infix<...>) and handles kebab case correctly: i.imgur.com/7hQub8f.png (yours is on the left) 16:57
MadcapJake++ good job
MadcapJake, oh, from the screenshot, I'm noticing "min" "max" is not highlighted 16:58
zengargoylew oh, i wonder if travis caches builds of the tagged Perl 6 versions... 16:59
MadcapJake ZoffixW: that's a weird one, is this code up in a gh repo?
ZoffixW MadcapJake, yeah: github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-Color/...rators.pm6
MadcapJake Actually they are highlighted xD Atom has this weird system for highlighting: One the one end, the grammar writers (like me) try and capture everything via regex and apply some css selectors. One the other end, the theme highlighters write css for whatever selectors they want. So the problem is, there is no regularity in how theme writers (or even grammar writers) use the selectors. So some themes highlight word operators 17:02
(what `min` and `max` are selected as) and some don't. TLDR: try another theme :)
ZoffixW MadcapJake, what's the selector for them? 17:03
Oh, I guess I can just inspect it myself
ZoffixW is an Atom noob
Juerd ♥ supplies 17:05
MadcapJake I think that the original language-perl has a different selector for word ops, I chose to have them highlighted the same as symbol ops: "keyword.operator.word.perl6fe' the key bit is `keyword.operator` the rest is just helpful for me (though it could be used if someone wanted to make an epic perl6 specific theme, some people have done work like this for python/javascript)
If you're interested: «Ctrl+Alt+Shift+P» will pop-up a notification with all the selectors at your cursor. 17:06
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MadcapJake If you're *more* interested: You can run Atom like `atom -d` and then you get the full chromium developer window and you can right click anything and click "Inspect element" just as you would in a browser. 17:08
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ZoffixW This reminds me of how annoyed I was last time I tried to configure atom 17:09
ZoffixW gives up
MadcapJake ZoffixW: btw, those last two unicode infix ops for desaturate and saturate aren't fixed width :( I think that's more than just an Atom problem though.
ZoffixW Wouldn't that just be an issue of whether the font I'm using provides them as fixed width? 17:10
MadcapJake ZoffixW: you can always shoot me a question if you want! I personally have the same frustration anytime I try and configure vim/emacs. :D
ZoffixW I use Sublime Text 2 for non-Perl-6 stuff. BUT, there's no way to enter Unicode chars in it :P 17:11
So I have to use Atom if I want the Unicode goodness :P
MadcapJake ZoffixW: Maybe, but I think most fonts don't provide unicode operators and it fallsback to a deeper unicode font.
If you're on linux doesn't «Ctrl+Shift+u» work? 17:12
Juerd Perl 6 is blowing my mind.
dalek p: cb57d0d | coke++ | / (2 files):
bump version to 2015.11
ZoffixW MadcapJake, it works in everything BUT Sublime Text 2 :P
MadcapJake lol that's awesome. 17:13
Juerd First time I've ever liked writing asynchronous code.
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PerlJam Juerd: yes, jnthn (and others) did an excellent job. 17:14
jnthn Juerd: Are you using the supply/whenever syntax too? 17:15
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MadcapJake What does it mean to prefix a method/field with `?` or `!` I've seen both in P6 code before. 17:18
moritz MadcapJake: ! is a private method 17:19
MadcapJake: and $var.?method doesn't die when there's no method "method"
MadcapJake moritz: thanks!
TimToady and $?foo has nothing to do with objects, but is a compile-time "constant variable" 17:20
Juerd jnthn: In one place, copied from an example in the docs. I don't really understand it.
moritz MadcapJake: also, awsome work on the syntax hilighting; I've seen some screenshots, and I'm ipressed
quietfanatic Does anybody have any suggestions about where to start to get a little familiarity with moarvm?
moritz getting heredocs right is tricky, for example :-)
Juerd p5: github.com/Juerd/Net-MQTT-Simple/b.../Simple.pm
PerlJam quietfanatic: #moarvm :)
Juerd p6: github.com/Juerd/p6-mqtt/blob/mast...et/MQTT.pm
camelia ( no output )
Juerd Almost at the same amount of features :) 17:21
quietfanatic PerlJam: Ah, of course :)
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jnthn Juerd: Yeah, I should really write the docs about it :) 17:22
MadcapJake moritz: thanks! heredocs was just a nifty use of a really cool feature in node-oniguruma (js regexp engine)
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Juerd I have no idea how I could implement automatic reconnection yet... 17:23
MadcapJake Just a few more tasks and I'll submit a PR to github/linguist to replace their current perl 6 highlighter. 17:24
ZoffixW Juerd, what's has IO::Socket::Async $!socket; ? I don't see that module in the ecosystem
ugexe its core 17:25
Juerd ZoffixW: Found that at doc.perl6.org :)
ZoffixW Thanks
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psch i'm a bit hesitant pushing a commit on top of rakudo HEAD after having to revert a merge and rebasing that revert out of my local copy... 17:27
as in (1) building HEAD doesn't work, (2) revert the breaking commit, (3) fix something unrelated, (4) rebase the revert away 17:29
[Coke] error building nqp: src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/io/StandardReadHandle.java:15: error: cannot find symbol
psch [Coke]: yeah, i mentioned that to pmurias++ already
[Coke] lemme try to clean and try again. :|
psch [Coke]: IIOPossiblyTTY is missing - i have no idea what should go in it, so i'm in the described situation... 17:30
[Coke] is this from bbf2eaf?
psch yeah
i think pmurias accidentally didn't git add the new file, cause the interface is plainly not declared anywhere 17:31
[Coke] I'll revert it then.
Oy.
n0tjack anyone have any recommendations for a reasonably-sized but still useful English corpus? 17:32
the ANC is just huge.
psch [Coke]: the corresponding rakudo commit is 3806c101
PerlJam n0tjack: king james bible text? one of the other books in project gutenberg?
[Coke] psch: thank you. 17:33
PerlJam lunch &
n0tjack PerlJam: KJV not represenative, unfortunately. Yeah, my backup plan is to cat a bunch of Gutenberg texts together.
Trying to implement Norvig's simple spelling corrector as a quick p6 exercise 17:34
[Coke] .tell pmurias - had to revert your recent changes around StandardReadHandle.java because they broke the build.
yoleaux [Coke]: I'll pass your message to pmurias.
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[Coke] is looking forward to having a new branching strategy so we can be sure we have a good working branch most of the time. 17:35
MadcapJake ZoffixW: u+25cf ● and u+25ef ◯ seem to be fixed-width for me, not that it really matters but looks a little cleaner. 17:36
TimToady well, we'll need to split off a maint track for 6c as a language after xmas so we can start developing 6d, or whatever langauge versioning scheme we end up with
or is that what you mean? 17:37
n0tjack wouldn't it be 6.turtle-doves, 6.french-hens?
ZoffixW MadcapJake, someone on FB mentioned a single brightness char and suggested doing a composite operator, like <-●> and <+●> for example, to be more clear. I ain't got tuits for that yet tho :P
[Coke] github.com/perl6/nqp/issues/256 17:38
TimToady n0tjack: we'd run out of versions after 12 that way
leaving aside the fact that they wouldn't cmp right...
[Coke] TimToady: in addition to that, we also need to think about having a 6c dev, 6c release, 6c stuff that hasn't been tested on any other backends yet... 17:39
psch m: say v6 cmp v6.c
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«More␤»
[Coke] but at a minimum, yes, we need to start tracking spec versions.
psch ^^^ this surprised me a tad
ZoffixW Go the Ubuntu way... 6.double-duck
psch i mean, semver-y it fits, but 6.christmas as 6.0 it wouldn't 17:40
although maybe the 6 in 6.c is 6.0.0 vOv
not that that would change much there...
[Coke] if v6 is "newer" than v6.c, that's not bad.
ah, I read that backwards, didn't I.
m: say v6 gt v6.c
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤»
[Coke] ayup.
psch hmm, maybe i read it wrong, actually 17:41
TimToady m: say v6 after v6.c
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤»
TimToady don't use gt
[Coke] someone who wants to hack on perl5/make stuff, removing the need to use parrot to cut an nqp release would be appreciated.
psch ah, no, i read it right apparently
[Coke] O_o?
TimToady gt is for strings, not versions 17:42
ZoffixW Did someone say hack on perl5 stuff? \o/
[Coke] docs.perl6.org/routine/after - click on "cmp" - bad URL
ZoffixW Yeah, there's an Issue already for that 17:43
github.com/perl6/doc/issues/162
[Coke] docs.perl6.org/routine/cmp should be updated to note that it works specially on version objects and point to the operator to use.
jnthn TimToady: So, use v6.d; means "must have 6.d and don't give me any features added after that", use v6.d+ means "latest but must be at lesat v6.d", and use v6 means "latest"? 17:44
ZoffixW [Coke], where is that nqp release cutting at? github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/master/Configure.pl ? 17:45
[Coke] see docs/release* for the guide on the required steps.
step early: config with parrot. #if you don't do this, one of the later steps fails, I think it's "make release" 17:46
jnthn bbiab &
TimToady well, use v6.d just matches the head of the version, so it's more like v6.d.0+ or really I guess v6.d.a+
but basically, yeah
stmuk what comes after v6.z?
TimToady v6.za 17:47
m: say v6.za after v6.z
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤»
TimToady m: say v6.0 after v6.z; # and of course this 17:48
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«True␤»
n0tjack TIL: PNC bank maintains a "christmas price index" which tracks a basket of the commodities mentioned in the 12 days of Christmas song. Current price of Christmas: $27,673.22
ZoffixW m: say ('c'..'s').elems + ('a'..'e').elems + ('a'..'x').elems
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«46␤»
TimToady so we could last a good long time with official P6 in "alpha" state, as it were :) 17:49
ZoffixW That leaves 46 releases before we get an really awkward one :P
n0tjack if you count each round of the song as an independent set of gifts (i.e. cumulative over the 12 days), the true price of Christmas is ~$117K
Hotkeys Hello
TimToady well, we could switch to 6.47.0 at that point :)
ZoffixW :P
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n0tjack seven swans a-swimming are surprisingly expensive 17:49
TimToady bypassing the little 6.6.6 problem :)
ZoffixW hah
n0tjack TimToady: in China, you'd have to skip version 4. 17:50
I'm currently working on the floor between 3 and 5, obviously named "floor 3A"
[Coke] is github.com/perl6/nqp/issues/258 enough to hold up the release?
I don't think github.com/perl6/nqp/issues/257 is. 17:51
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Hotkeys Sometimes they just skip straight from 3 to 5 as well 17:52
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n0tjack I always thought labelling the 13th floor on a 13-floor bldg "PH" was a clever hack. 17:53
ZoffixW So what's parrot? A P6 compiler?
n0tjack ZoffixW: it was a VM for dynamic languages, mostly p6
ZoffixW: not really a going concern anymore
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ZoffixW n0tjack, is this still accurate:? "Parrot is scheduled to release the third Tuesday of each month; Rakudo will generally issue its own development release soon after the scheduled Parrot release" 17:54
diakopter no; it can be scrapped 17:55
n0tjack ZoffixW: I can't speak with authority, but I don't think Parrot is actively maintained anymore. It's outlived its usefulness. Its spiritual successor is Moar.
ZoffixW Ah ok :)
diakopter TimToady gave a good summary in the TwiT talk this week
(of parrot)
ZoffixW I'll try to find the time to watch that then.
[Coke] I'm going to update the parrot-related text and the release schedule after christmas. 17:57
diakopter in case anyone needs the link: twit.tv/shows/triangulation/episod...tart=false
[Coke] going to move to saturdays (if no objection) and pick a simple formula. (like, 3rd saturday) 17:58
bartolin, psch: what's your opinion on github.com/perl6/nqp/issues/257 ?
TimToady we don't yet know how much JVM support will be there at christmas either
[Coke] er, sorry, 258
TimToady: my goal is to at least STOP BREAKING IT.
beyond that, yes, no promises. 17:59
TimToady well, I don't consider backtraces to be intrinsically worse than producing wrong results, so if we have to break jvm's semantics while making moarvm better, I know where my priorities lie this coming month 18:01
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psch [Coke]: well, we're getting a CodeRef without an STable in decont there 18:03
[Coke]: i don't have any immediate idea how to fix that
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psch on the upside, equivalent code on a p6-level doesn't seem to break 18:09
j: use nqp; my $method := nqp::decont(nqp::findmethod(Mu.HOW, "methods")); $method(Mu.HOW, Mu) # approximately 18:10
camelia ( no output )
psch the explicit decont is probably not needed there...
j: use nqp; my $method := nqp::findmethod(Mu.HOW, "methods"); nqp::decont($method(Mu.HOW, Mu)) # better approximation 18:11
camelia ( no output )
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psch hm, that's not quite it i guess :/ 18:13
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MadcapJake This is how I am currently specififying the first char of a sigiled variable: (?:[a-zA-Z_\xc0-\xff\\$]) 18:15
How would I (and how far) expand that to allow for $Δ etc.) 18:16
moritz MadcapJake: \w maybe?
n0tjack MadcapJake: without knowing for sure .. the Unicode property "identifier character"?
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moritz \w is word character, which maps pretty well to identifier 18:17
MadcapJake oniguruma.rubyforge.org/oniguruma/f...x_txt.html
18:17 dakkar left
MadcapJake I'm not quite sure what will give me the unicode in these character types 18:18
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n0tjack MadcapJake: According to S06, the initial character in an identifier either has unicode prop L, or is an underscore. 18:19
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MadcapJake moritz: haha looks like \w worked! 18:19
n0tjack MadcapJake: and \w is "matches a character with unicode property L"
so moritz++
MadcapJake ohh ok i gotcha n0tjack thanks! I didn't realize there was a rule on the initial char 18:20
n0tjack check design.perl6.org/S15.html#Identifiers
MadcapJake well that was easy, changed that large character set to (?:\\w) 18:21
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MadcapJake n0tjack: thanks, this is helpful! 18:22
hey there's a description of pragmas I was looking for too! S15 FTW! 18:23
n0tjack m: say '_' ~~ /\w/;
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«｢_｣␤»
n0tjack m: say '_' ~~ /\w/ ?? "underscore is a letter" !! "no it ain't";
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«underscore is a letter␤»
n0tjack huh, didn't realize that 18:24
quietfanatic Actually \w is letters, numbers, and _. It's \a that's just letters 18:25
MadcapJake yeah \w === [a-zA-Z0-9_] (plus unicode cat L, apprently!)
Skarsnik [ptc], it's lastest in a travis.yml that make it rebuild rakudo and co each time?
quietfanatic So an identifier would be [\a_]\w*
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MadcapJake quietfanatic: does \a include unicode though? 18:27
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quietfanatic m: say 'あ' ~~ /\a/ 18:28
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/qKp1xdhTxo␤Unrecognized backslash sequence: '\a'␤at /tmp/qKp1xdhTxo:1␤------> 3say 'あ' ~~ /\7⏏5a/␤ expecting any of:␤ term␤»
quietfanatic oh huh
n0tjack m: say '_' ~~ /\p{ID_Start}/ ?? "Unicode says _ can start an identifier" !! "lol jk"; 18:29
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/ZsUyCOok9c␤Unrecognized backslash sequence: '\p'␤at /tmp/ZsUyCOok9c:1␤------> 3say '_' ~~ /\7⏏5p{ID_Start}/ ?? "Unicode says _ can star␤ expecting any of:␤ term␤»
MadcapJake m: say 'Δ' ~~ /\a/
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/gkMfXjWXZi␤Unrecognized backslash sequence: '\a'␤at /tmp/gkMfXjWXZi:1␤------> 3say 'Δ' ~~ /\7⏏5a/␤ expecting any of:␤ term␤»
MadcapJake m: say 'Δ' ~~ rx|\a|
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/yCAxPutJbh␤Unrecognized backslash sequence: '\a'␤at /tmp/yCAxPutJbh:1␤------> 3say 'Δ' ~~ rx|\7⏏5a|␤»
n0tjack m: say 'Δ' ~~ rx|\a|;
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/SMtdJc4qVS␤Unrecognized backslash sequence: '\a'␤at /tmp/SMtdJc4qVS:1␤------> 3say 'Δ' ~~ rx|\7⏏5a|;␤»
MadcapJake either way, the re engine I'm using doesn't have a \a character class 18:30
quietfanatic Well if you have unicode character classes, it'd be [:alpha:] 18:31
MadcapJake it does have an Alpha property though... let me give it a try
moritz m: say 'Δ' ~~ /\pL/
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Bzhx444xIe␤Unrecognized backslash sequence: '\p'␤at /tmp/Bzhx444xIe:1␤------> 3say 'Δ' ~~ /\7⏏5pL/␤ expecting any of:␤ term␤»
moritz m: say 'Δ' ~~ /<:Letter>/ 18:32
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«｢Δ｣␤»
MadcapJake sweet Alpha property worked, that way it won't capture number-beginning things as identifiers. (Alpha is probably what Letter is in P6)
moritz p5 does the \pL or \p{Letter} property
n0tjack m: say '_' ~~ /<:ID_Start>/; 18:33
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Nil␤»
n0tjack m: say 'j' ~~ /<:ID_Start>/;
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«｢j｣␤»
n0tjack m: say '_' ~~ /<:XID_Continue>/; 18:34
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«｢_｣␤»
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MadcapJake ZoffixW: v0.5.1 supports highlighting $Δ now! 18:36
ZoffixW MadcapJake++
hahainternet quick question, why is for example, 100² not supported as an operator? 18:38
i assume there was some discussion at some point 18:39
Skarsnik m: say 100²
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/_nWI0UQD3t␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/_nWI0UQD3t:1␤------> 3say 1007⏏5²␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement end␤ statement modifier…»
ZoffixW hahainternet, you mean just the ²?
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hahainternet ZoffixW: indeed, or any superscripted number 18:39
TimToady m: say unival('²') 18:40
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«2␤»
hahainternet 2**30 is not as nice as 2³⁰
ZoffixW m: sub postfix:<²> (Real $n) { $n ** 2 }; say 100²
cygx OH NOES: www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sg4U4r_AgJ...p;t=57m32s
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«10000␤»
cygx dissed by Brian Kernighan
ZoffixW hahainternet, I guess because it's easy to do that ^
hahainternet ZoffixW: oh i know you can add it, but it would be better if it supported the whole uni class
i assume operator names can contain some element of pattern matching, i should earn what would be required to make that apply 18:41
n0tjack hahainternet: the cost would be additional complexity (in the compiler and in the user's head) and the benefit would be ... humor value? 18:42
P6 is a metalanguage, so you can fold, spindle, twist, and mutilate it on your own.
ZoffixW :)
timotimo nnnooooooo, mister kernighan :(
hahainternet n0tjack: the benefit is clarity
i understand that's why « and » exist for example 18:43
n0tjack hahainternet: Clarity, methinks, is in the eye of the beholder. I personally can't stand implied operators (i.e. overloading juxtaposition with semantics).
ZoffixW releases Operators::Superscripts
Oh
[Coke], I've just "cut a release" of nqp and from what I can see parrot was not involved in the process 18:44
hahainternet n0tjack: but to act as if this is not clear is to dismiss its use everywhere
n0tjack: i mean it's not like superscripts as powers is rare
n0tjack I don't see intrinsic value in backwards compatibility with a notation which (a) developed organically, without oversight or overall design and (b) was optimized for a whiteboard, not a text file
ZoffixW [Coke], without making changes to anything. Am I missing something? By "cut a release" I mean I generated the tarball
hahainternet and is (c) in use in every school and formal education setting in the world i'm aware of
i mean, there is that going for it ;)
n0tjack I also find 2**4 perfectly clear; if it were at all unclear I could see an argument for superscripts to supplement it. 18:45
ZoffixW Ooooo... "Hey there! We're rolling out a faster, more streamlined repository experience and would love to give you early access."
ZoffixW feels special
hahainternet n0tjack: but is not >> just as clear as » ?
is there not more than one way to do things? ;)
n0tjack hahainternet: well, big-sigma {iterator declaration, index bounds} {expression} is used in every classroom the world over
but I prefer [+] :)
hahainternet: yes, TMTOWTDI .. for the user! 18:46
hahainternet n0tjack: sure, but i'm not suggesting ** be removed, just that i would have expected superscripts to work as lots of other unicode is supported
wondered if there had been a discussion about it previously
but as it stands i don't see a good reason for rejection, other than it doesn't seem that you can declare operators by unicode class :D
n0tjack hahainternet: I'm a lowly user, not a designer or contributor, and a n00b to boot. But my general philosophy is that supporting features is like supporting arguments: the burden is on the proponent, not the defendent. 18:47
hahainternet well i'm happy to be the advocate, but i was more hoping to find previous discussions than ignite something new, i am also just a lowly user 18:48
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n0tjack IOW, there is a cost for every feature, so we'd have to see a corresponding benefit, and this reporter doesn't see a (meaningful) benefit of superscripts 18:48
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n0tjack I haven't been here long enough to know if it's been discussed previously. 18:48
hahainternet all i could find was discussion of them in range operators/increment/decrement 18:49
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MadcapJake hahainternet: I could see maybe having a few basic ones like squared, cubed but beyond that it should just be handled with an exponentation operator (this is how calculators handle it too: Xʸ 18:52
hahainternet timotimo: good update btw, i wasn't aware it was you + lizmat who do the 6 weeklys
timotimo lizmat steps in regularly
hahainternet well i knew it was someone in here
same with the advent calendars
which have been all i've used for christmas for a few years
so, thanks for the good work :) 18:53
timotimo i could have done the last two, but liz was already half-done before the weekend even started
hahainternet well as mostly a passive observer, it's fantastic to get distilled summaries
otherwise i'd be stuck reading commit logs or irc logs
timotimo i'm glad to hear :)
hahainternet and every year the advent calendar has blown my mind in one way or the other 18:54
timotimo yup, the quality is quite good
gotta catch some Zs for a little nap
stmuk github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/594 Import a new CREDITS based on a new script CREDITS.p6
hahainternet anyhow MadcapJake imho if you support one of 2³ or what-have-you, you might as well support them all
although it would be tricky if they were done individually, it'd have to be a grammar rule i would guess 18:55
nn timotimo, i'd make a list zip pun but i'd feel bad
timotimo :)
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stmuk now #595 19:09
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diakopter___ at work in webchat 19:27
whee. 19:28
dalek osystem: 3316f21 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list:
Add Operators::Math::Superscripts to the ecosystem

Superscript numerical operators for raising to powers: github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-Operat...perscripts
ZoffixW hahainternet, ^ :D
It's really sad custom ops are so expensive to compile. "All tests successful. Files=1, Tests=19, 48 wallclock secs ( 0.05 usr 0.01 sys + 47.14 cusr 0.38 csys = 47.58 CPU)" 19:29
That's just 19 defined ops
n0tjack how do adverbs work with custom infix operators?
hahainternet ZoffixW: :o
ZoffixW: and now to convince someone to make it core :D
moritz n0tjack: they are just named arguments to the operator
n0tjack I want to be able to say sub infix<↑> ($a, $b, :$n) { ...} and then call 4 ↑:n(2) 77 ... is that the general idea? 19:30
ZoffixW hahainternet, nah. Why slow down the compiler with extra features and the burden core devs with extra maintenance?
moritz ZoffixW: installing modules for the mojo-app now
hahainternet ZoffixW: ah this would only work for singles anyway
ZoffixW moritz, sweet. I'm around if anything starts exploding :)
hahainternet as 2¹² would be 2**1**2 19:31
still
moritz ZoffixW: do you want root on the www server, so that you can also maintain stuff?
hahainternet thans for the effort :)
ZoffixW moritz, that would be nice sure
This way I don't have to bug you all the time :)
[Coke] ZoffixW: did you follow the directions?
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ZoffixW hahainternet, yeah. I'd love to define a whole ton of them, but they're very expensive. 19 cost 40secs. 1000s would compile forever :P 19:32
n0tjack moritz: I meant more the calling convention than the declaration. As in 88 ↑:n(2) 999 -- is that what I should expect to work?
[Coke] (that had you configure parrot?)
moritz ZoffixW: please /msg me your ssh pubkey
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hahainternet ZoffixW: it'd be part of the language grammar i'd assume 19:32
ZoffixW: i'll try and learn how to do that
moritz n0tjack: I'm never quite sure where the adverb goes; might be after the second operand
n0tjack thanks
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ZoffixW [Coke], oh, I think I may have skipped the three "make ..."s before I ran make release. Running now. 19:33
moritz heh, install perl 5 modules is sloooow compared to installing with pip
[Coke] ZoffixW: ... did you run the configure step?
moritz and then when I want to complain about it, I remember it's because pip doesn't run each test suite :-)
[Coke] and/or start from a clean dir?
ZoffixW [Coke], I started from a clean checkout. And I ran perl Configure.pl --gen-moar --backend=moar 19:34
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[Coke] ok, then the fix may be as simple as just removing the reference to parrot. I know at one point this year, it was still required. 19:34
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[Coke] (from parrot in the docs, that is.) 19:35
arnsholt A question for the Rakudo internals folks: What kind of object are $*OUT and $*ERR? 19:36
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moritz m: say $*OUT.^name 19:36
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«IO::Handle␤»
moritz that's what I would have guessed too
arnsholt Oh, derp. Should have thought of that =D
Cheers!
cognominal m: say $*OUT.perl 19:37
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«IO::Handle.new(path => IO::Special.new(what => "<STDOUT>"), chomp => Bool::True)␤»
diakopter___ cool
arnsholt Now I can gobble up stdout and stderr for IPerl6 =D 19:38
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bartolin [Coke]: sorry, I don't have a good idea about github.com/perl6/nqp/issues/258 19:42
n0tjack hmm, this doesn't return
gist.github.com/dbron/245b6e2891c3bc3520cf
It was working when I was using regular subs instead of an infix operator 19:43
diakopter___ m: gist.github.com/dbron/245b6e2891c3bc3520cf
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(timeout)»
diakopter___ does its memory usage grow? 19:44
n0tjack Let me check. 19:45
yep.
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dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org/mojo-app:">modules.perl6.org/mojo-app: 307ef07 | moritz++ | web/lib-db-builder/P6Project/Hosts/Github.pm:
Remove debugging code
 19:45
n0tjack it's in an infinite recursion, I imagine. Somehow porting it from sub to operator screwed up how it understands its parameters.
diakopter___ so it is recursing more deeply, if the memory usage is growing 19:46
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n0tjack Oh well, I can always port it back to a sub; the fact that the adverb can't come directly after the op kinda-sorta defeats the purpose of using an op anyway. 19:46
ZoffixW Oh, moritz++ beat me to it :)
Sorry about that one :P
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n0tjack ah, dammit, I transposed my adverbs. 19:49
chalk that up to me being stupid.
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ZoffixW [Coke], well, I ran perl Configure.pl --gen-moar --backend=moar; make; make m-test; make release ...; This is what it generated xtatik.org/temp/nqp-2015.11.tar.gz 19:50
Not tried building the jvm, but so far, I don't see parrot being involved in the process (don't have it installed) 19:51
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[Coke] ZoffixW: ok. historically, 'make release' only worked if you configured with parrot. thanks for the feedback, I'll double check and then fixup the docs and close the ticket. thanks. 19:52
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dalek p: 9bb99ed | coke++ | src/vm/jvm/ (4 files):
Revert "Implement a guessing nqp::isttyfh on the JVM (the JVM doesn't allow us to implement a fully correct version)."

This reverts commit bbf2eafc85f3fa4e070a967ffd4c931e7609ce21.
It breaks the build on the JVM		 19:55
ast: 1f000d4 | usev6++ | S16-io/bom.t:
Fudge tests for UTF-8 BOM stripping on JVM RT #124024
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=124024
masak evening, #perl6 19:56
ZoffixW \o
[Coke] nqp 2015.11 release done, uploaded.
ZoffixW \o/ 19:57
Hotkeys releases are for nerds
building from the latest commit is whewre it's at
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masak [Coke]++ # release 19:58
jnthn o/ masak 19:59
arnsholt has beer and progress on IPerl6 20:00
ZoffixW hm... I really hate GitHub's new "streamlined" layout :S 20:01
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jnthn hopes getting beer on IPerl6 won't make it sticky 20:01
arnsholt Beer just makes the code more awesomer
I thought you'd know that =p
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dalek ast: 4210e0c | jnthn++ | S09-multidim/methods.t:
.flat on shaped array gives the leaves.
 20:07
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dalek p: b7f3ccf | coke++ | docs/release_guide.pod:
No longer need to build parrot to cut a release

Other minor cleanups.
Closes #256		 20:12
[Coke] ZoffixW++ 20:13
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ZoffixW \o/ 20:13
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zengargoylew ah, made it through the first day of the rakudo/nqp workshop slides. 20:17
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lizmat .botsnack 20:21
yoleaux 08:27Z <nine> lizmat: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-11-19#i_11564686
synbot6 om nom nom
PerlJam lizmat! o/
yoleaux :D
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jnthn zengargoylew: Congrats :) 20:21
lizmat waves from Hollywood
(Florida :-)
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lizmat PerlJam o/ 20:22
20:22 lab left
jnthn Hollywood sure gets around... :) 20:23
o/ lizmat
lizmat hehe.... yeah...
timotimo oh hey lizmat :)
i did the weekly in your absence - only one day late - and it seems like it was well received :D 20:24
lizmat we disembarked earlier this morning, just checked into our hotel for the next 2 days
timotimo++
it appears I have some backlog to check out :-)
dalek kudo/nom: 0285870 | jnthn++ | src/core/Array.pm:
.gist on shaped arrays shows structure.
 20:25
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nine \o lizmat :) 20:26
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lizmat nine++ o/ 20:30
dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 73 commits to modules.perl6.org by moritz 20:33
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[Coke] Anything major looming on rakudo/nom today before the release? 20:35
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jnthn [Coke]: One more patch from me, nothing big 20:36
[Coke] ok. I'm not getting to it for a few hours, so I'm sure you'll beat me to it 20:37
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jnthn I hope to be in bed and unconcious in a few hours :) 20:38
PerlJam Everyone, don't forget to contribute to the Advent calendar! With the impending "production release" of Perl 6, there may be more interest in neat Perl 6 things. 20:39
jnthn might supply a post...
But like...after LPW and a few days to recover from it :P 20:40
dalek kudo/nom: f8f165b | jnthn++ | src/core/Array.pm:
Fix .perl on shaped arrays.
 20:41
PerlJam jnthn: a nice post on supply/react/whenever would be great :)
dalek ast: bc0fca7 | jnthn++ | S09-multidim/methods.t:
Test .gist and .perl on shaped arrays.
PerlJam ... and shaped arrays ;) 20:42
ZoffixW PerlJam, is it just 1 article per day or can more people write?
I heard the "Advent" terms thrown around Christmas time before, but I never knew what that means actually :)
PerlJam ZoffixW: historically it's been 1 article per day, but I'm not going to limit people if they want to do more :) 20:43
ZoffixW All I can think of is those chocolates where you pop open one bit per day :)
jnthn TimToady: I've largely fleshed out most of what you described wanting shaped arrays to do, with the exception of your wish that .map somehow be structre-retaining...
TimToady: We'll find other holes too, I suspect.
ZoffixW PerlJam, when does it start?
moritz ZoffixW: it's like that, except that you get a blog post instead of a chocolate per day
PerlJam ZoffixW: Dec 1.
ZoffixW Aha.
jnthn TimToady: The main/big thing that's missing is shaped native arrays. 20:44
TimToady: So that's what I'll probably do tomorrow.
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moritz modules.perl6.org/ is now powered by a mojolicious app, ZoffixW++ 20:49
dalek ast: 1291a67 | usev6++ | S06-traits/misc.t:
Fudge tests for correct exception on JVM, RT #126531
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=126531
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ZoffixW \o/ 20:50
timotimo, I recall you wanted List of Modules -> List of links to repos. If you give me the spec of what the output should look like, I'll add that. Currently, stuff like this works: modules.perl6.org/repo/AccessorFacade
20:50 rindolf left
ZoffixW (note the /repo) 20:50
commute & 20:51
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cygx note that the new modules.perl6.org shows a supefluous scrollbat in my firefox 21:10
one way to get rid of it is giving #dists_wrapper an overflow:visible
*scrollbar
PerlJam I liked "scrollbat" That should be a thing. 21:11
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pmurias [Coke]: with what error does the build fail? 21:13
yoleaux 17:34Z <[Coke]> pmurias: - had to revert your recent changes around StandardReadHandle.java because they broke the build.
cygx PerlJam: me too, but according to google image search, it's not - YET! 21:14
timotimo pmurias: something doesn't exist 21:15
pmurias: some file you forgot to git add perhaps
bartolin pmurias: github.com/perl6/nqp/issues/258 see also irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-11-19#i_11567312
pmurias yes it seems a missing file 21:16
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cygx thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/halloween-b...082638.jpg # <-- a scrollbat 21:17
Skarsnik duh what is the -I equivalent for perl5 ? x)
PerlJam Skarsnik: -I
moritz that was easy. 21:18
dalek kudo/curli: 8fd2c2c | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/core/CompUnit/Repository/Installation.pm:
Fix installing distributions containing multiple modules

Precompiling in the order as they are listed in the distribution's meta data for now.		 21:19
jnthn nine: Though given pre-comp is recursive these days, I guess that order doesn't strictly matter? :)
dalek p: 765ef2c | (Pawel Murias)++ | src/vm/jvm/ (5 files):
Implement a guessing nqp::isttyfh on the JVM (the JVM doesn't allow us to implement a fully correct version).

This commit contains the file that was missing previously		 21:20
nine jnthn: it's recursive with FileSystem repositories. Installation does precomp on install. Though I guess, I could detect that we are already precompiling and thus precompile on load there, too.
jnthn: that might just be the solution to find the intra dist dependencies :) 21:21
jnthn nine: I think that'd be wise
Right, that also ;)
21:21 zengargoylew left
nine jnthn: I'm thinking about having one dependencies file per precompiled module. Would improve load performance in FileSystem repos, but would also be a bit of a headache (and performance penalty) for finding the reverse dependencies at install time in Installation repos. 21:22
Maybe I should just do both a centralized dependencies file for Installation repos and a per module file in the precomp store. 21:23
jnthn nine: You could do different...yeah. :) 21:24
Skarsnik nice perl5 module: WARNING: Unknown struct item type 'gint'
I try to understand why Dumper display nothing after that, the WARNING dies ...
sorry for this useless rant xD 21:25
21:28 diakopter___ left
pmurias nine: the centralized file would contain all the installed modules? 21:28
nine pmurias: the ids of the installed modules and the ids of their dependencies 21:29
21:31 diakopter___ joined 21:33 raiph joined 21:35 diana_olhovik left 21:40 leont joined
leont Is there a shorter way to do «CATCH { when Foo { return } }», it seems more wordy than needed 21:40
(specially given usual indenting standards) 21:41
lizmat CATCH { return when Foo }
na
leont I have a recollection of that not working
lizmat yeah, was mixing it up with "with" 21:42
21:42 kolikov left, diakopter___ left
lizmat sightseeing& 21:42
jnthn m: sub foo() { die 'oops'; CATCH { return when 'oops' } }; foo() 21:43
camelia ( no output )
grondilu realizes that his latest modification on permutations improves performance but loses lazyness :(
jnthn Seems fine
when is a statement mod too
21:47 rurban joined
grondilu m: say permutations(100)[0] 21:47
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«(timeout)» 21:48
21:48 pmurias_ joined
Zoffix cygx, what's your OS and Firefox version? 21:48
leont m: try { die False; CATCH { when Bool { say "Success" } } } 21:51
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«False␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/r_34ZHztPj:1␤␤»
21:51 pmurias left
leont is confused about that 21:51
jnthn leont: You can't just throw any old object :) 21:53
Needs to ~~ Exception
leont Ah, I see
jnthn Ah, and so why did mine work? 'cus die 'foo' makes an Exception whose message is 'foo', and it will .Str to the message
cygx Zoffix: Win7, FF 42.0 21:54
21:55 xfix left
Zoffix cygx, I don't see a scrollbar in Win7/FF42. Can you make a screenshot? 21:55
cygx Zoffix: i.imgur.com/TWiM6EC.png 21:58
you can only scroll a pixel or three
Zoffix :S What happened to your font aliasing? :) 21:59
cygx don't like it
Zoffix :O
22:02 nightfrog left
leont Is there a cleaner way to set the default value (in a class) of an attribute (from a role) than to defined a BUILD submethod? 22:03
22:03 [Sno] joined
grondilu moritz: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/57...t-14513158 22:04
Zoffix leont, has $.foo = 'bar';
oh from a role
dunno
22:04 diakopter___ joined 22:07 skids left 22:09 brrt left
zengargoyle oh, is modules.perl6.org the new one? 22:14
dalek kudo/curli: f8a5d5f | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/core/CompUnit/PrecompilationRepository.pm:
Fix precompilation using an out of date repository list

  @*INC is on the way out. Use $*REPO for the up-to-date list.
Fixes precompilation failing with "module not found" messages.
kudo/curli: 2c8ab72 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/core/CompUnit/Repository/Installation.pm:
Handle intra-dist dependencies when precompiling on installation

Precompile recursively just like Repository::FileSystem does.
Zoffix zengargoyle, yeah 22:15
zengargoyle it does that heinous activate search box and breake space/pgup/pgdown thing. :P 22:16
Zoffix zengargoyle, you never complained when that was happening on the old version :P
And I'd assume you'll want to search 99% of the time on that page instead of scrolling :P 22:17
zengargoyle i complaing when doc.perl6.org did it. :)
browsers will search on a page just fine, unless it's capable of searching for stuff that's not on the page...
ctrl-f or / 22:18
Zoffix zengargoyle, if you're talking about modules.perl6.org stuff, it soon will. We have too many dists for a single page, so we'll be paginating.
Skarsnik ctrl+f is bad too many noise you don't want between result 22:19
zengargoyle yeah, thought a nice module count display of some sort, or graph of additions would be nice
i never have a problem with ctrl-f. so used to incremental search in vim etc. just type until you find what you want. 22:21
Zoffix cygx, I still couldn't reproduce. Can you try this page and see if the issue is still there? perl6.xtatik.org/
zengargoyle still think that a web page should *rarely* auto-focus anything when loading. breaks all keyboard navigation. 22:22
Zoffix zengargoyle, tell it to google.com :P
zengargoyle that's the rarely. nothing on the page but the box. 22:23
login boxes are ok too.
Zoffix zengargoyle, but why do you want to use keyboard navigation?
Instead of searching. 22:24
And I mean during regular use and not you currently going there to check out how the new site looks :)
metacpan.org/ also focuses
zengargoyle it focuses on the first page when you have nothing else to do. 22:26
when you have results, it does not focus.
hence space/pgup/pgdown work.
if modules were an empty page with a search box... i wouldn't have as much ick about it.
cygx Zoffix: the scrollbar's still there 22:27
Zoffix crap
dalek kudo-star-daily: fa12ded | coke++ | log/ (3 files):
today (automated commit)
Zoffix cygx, what did you do to your Win7 that I can't reproduce the bug in mine? :)
cygx if I zoom in so that a horizontal bar appears, the vertical one goes away ;)
Zoffix Ven and you should form a club. I can't reproduce the issue they see either :P 22:28
cygx Zoffix: nothing special, aside from setting classic themes
Zoffix did set classic theme
My firefox looks a bit different though. I have a "Firefox" button in top left
22:29 n0tjack left
zengargoyle horizontal bar is probably browser. if my window is narrow enough it reflows and goes away, if it's wide it goes away. if it's just the right width a horizontal scroll that does very little appears. 22:29
cygx I'm using Classic Theme Restorer, though I would expect that doesn't affect the rendering area
but who knows
Zoffix zengargoyle, No, that's not correct. It focuses on the first page because if you land there your most common use path is to search, not to scroll somewhere and if you land on a module page your most common use path would be to read documentation. It's all about anticipation of what most of the users visiting the page will do and trying to accomodate them
22:31 muraiki left
Zoffix BTW, this works too, if you want to link to search results: modules.perl6.org/#q=Test+meta 22:32
Eventually this will work too, but it's broken in a couple of places ATM modules.perl6.org/q/Test 22:33
cygx what about de-focusing the search field on pg-up/pg-down and possibly space in cae of an empty field?
*case
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timotimo it seems like there's no benchmark in which our current rakudo is slower than the last release was 22:35
i hope i didn't measure wrong.
leont Was it possible to unpack a hash in a signature? The way you can with a list? 22:37
hoelzro leont: you mean like my-sub(|%named-params)?
zengargoyle should also de-focus on enter after search so you can scroll.
hoelzro oh, you mean like sub my-sub(%params{$key1, $key2}) or something
leont No like my-sub (@ [ $head, *@tail ])
Yeah, something like that 22:38
cygx m: sub foo(% ( :$k )) { say $k }; foo %( k => 42 ) 22:39
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«42␤»
hoelzro oh, thanks cygx!
22:39 tokuhiro_ left
hoelzro I always forget that exact syntax 22:39
timotimo t.h8.lv/p6bench/2015-11-19-release_10_11.html 22:40
dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org:">modules.perl6.org: 3a2b7ac | (Zoffix Znet)++ | web/public/js/main.js:
Defocus search box when pressed keys indicate user is attempting to scroll the page
Zoffix cygx, zengargoyle ^
zengargoyle m: my sub foo(% (:key($key), :hope($h))){ say "$key $h" }; foo(%(:key('test'),:ope('foo')));
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Unexpected named argument 'ope' passed in sub-signature␤ in sub foo at /tmp/bT4AUyJjPW:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/bT4AUyJjPW:1␤␤»
cygx note that this gives an exact match - if you want to ignore additional keys, you need to add a *% (anonymous slurpy hash)
zengargoyle m: my sub foo(% (:key($key), :hope($h))){ say "$key $h" }; foo(%(:key('test'),:hope('foo')));
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«test foo␤»
cygx Zoffix++ 22:41
22:43 espadrine joined
leont cygx++ #thanks! 22:43
zengargoyle still wonders if there's a way to replace Linenoise with something more readline like.
timotimo uh oh 22:46
cygx zengargoyle: add rlwrap to the shellscript that invokes rakudo
timotimo m: my ($s, $e, $n, $d) = 1, 2, 3, 4; say :10[$s, $e, $n, $d]; 22:47
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«1234␤»
timotimo huh, what's gone wrong locally here
oh, i see
when did @$a_set start giving pairs instead of keys? 22:48
hoelzro timotimo: what's 7e3d0b8?
zengargoyle: yes, it should be easy; I just haven't done it yet 22:49
DrForr++ wrote a readline module, so we just have to add the relevant bits to Perl6::Compiler
zengargoyle cygx: yeah, was just perusing the rlwrap man page to see what sort of config it might take to make it approximate bash-like usage
i.e. wrapping, history, external editing, etc.
22:50 ifim left
timotimo hoelzro: just a very recent commit 22:51
hoelzro ah ha
zengargoyle hoelzro: cool, didn't know if there was some technical reason for Linenoise or not. guess the whole repl thing seema a prime candidate for post-xmas hackery. 22:52
timotimo found a spec test that requires $a_set.list to be all Pair objects 22:53
hoelzro zengargoyle: I picked linenoise because we used it at the time, and I had experience with the linenoise code base; readline has a fairly large API, and potential licensing issues
timotimo late 2015-08 apparently
hoelzro I may just be ignorant about that last part
cygx hoelzro: no, you're correct 22:54
readline is GPL proper, not LGPL
22:54 pippo joined
cygx not an issue for us, but potentially for our 'customers' that want to re-ditribute 22:55
Hotkeys > my @test = <a b c>
[a b c]
> @test.index('a')
0
> @test.index('b')
2
22:55 vendethiel left
Hotkeys > @test.index('c') 22:55
4
what is going on here
is this what's supposed to happen?
timotimo index is a method on strings 22:56
cygx index operated on strings, I think
timotimo so it stringifies the list
Hotkeys ah
timotimo m: @test = <a b c>; say @test.Str.perl
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/apM2xlP5AN␤Variable '@test' is not declared␤at /tmp/apM2xlP5AN:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5@test = <a b c>; say @test.Str.perl␤»
timotimo oops
m: my @test = <a b c>; say @test.Str.perl
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«"a b c"␤»
Hotkeys is there a list equivalent
timotimo m: @test = <a b c>; say @test.first-index("a")
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/SyRX1q5SaH␤Variable '@test' is not declared␤at /tmp/SyRX1q5SaH:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5@test = <a b c>; say @test.first-index("␤»
timotimo m: my @test = <a b c>; say @test.first-index("a")
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«0␤»
timotimo (god damn it)
m: my @test = <a b c>; say @test.first-index("c")
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«2␤»
timotimo m: my @test = <a b c>; say @test.first-index(99)
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '7⏏5a' (indicated by 7⏏)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/8EmiWVyXtZ:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/8EmiWVyXtZ:1␤␤»
Hotkeys ah
timotimo ah, hehe. 22:57
hoelzro I forget, which license is rakudo under? artistic?
Hotkeys to kill actually 22:58
hoelzro so in that case, we can't distribute Readline with Star?
timotimo m) 22:59
Zoffix .tell Ven could you look at modules.perl6.org/ and try pressing SPACE or Down Key. Does the same issue happen as on docs.perl6.org that you can't scroll?
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to Ven.
cygx hoelzro: we can if all included modules come with licenses that are GPL-compatible 23:00
23:00 spider-mario left
hoelzro does that mean that code meant to be run on Star would have to be GPL'd too, though? 23:00
the GPL thing has always been a bit murky to me 23:01
cygx hoelzro: I admit I'm a bit murkey on how exactly the GPL applies to non-compiled languages, but generally, no
otherwise all gcc-compiled programs would become GPL'd 23:02
hoelzro oh, good point
since they're linked against any runtime stuff GCC provides 23:03
zengargoyle but the runtime stuff is specially exempted.
hoelzro oh, is it? by GCC or the GPL?
cygx www.gnu.org/licenses/gcc-exception-...aq.en.html
hoelzro wow
TIL
grondilu hoelzro: funny you guys are talking about the license, it so happens that I was looking at www.quickperm.org/ and was about to mail the author and ask for reuse authorization. So I had to mention to him the licenses rakudo is published with.
hoelzro zengargoyle: if you want to help with the Readline + Rakudo stuff, let me know; I can point you in the right direction 23:04
zengargoyle hoelzro: i've got to figure out nqp/rakudo stuff first and fix POD =data sections (and maybe =finish). :) 23:05
hoelzro zengargoyle: let me know if you would like help on that too; I did a bunch of stuff for S26 last summer
hoelzro is trying to get more involved with Rakudo/Moar dev
zengargoyle which i'm currently stuck at. and slogging through that old 2day course.
hoelzro zengargoyle: what in particular are you stuck on? do you have a branch I can look at? 23:06
cygx another relevant read: www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html#I...reterIsGPL
zengargoyle basically, i can't figure out whether or not (or how) i can make a Perl 6-ish object and bind it into $*UNIT
hoelzro cygx++ # information
zengargoyle: as opposed to a lexpad? 23:07
zengargoyle i have half of the =data section gathered up into a list, and i can bind that list to $=data, but i need to do some work on the list first.
i know how to do it in Perl, but not really in nqp. with all the serialization and wrapping and compile_time_value stuff... 23:10
gist.github.com/zengargoyle/18152f...ce7fc03960
23:10 camelia left
zengargoyle i need $=data to be a Pod::Data object with Positional and Associative access initialized from the $*POD_BLOCKS_DATA. 23:10
i can't make BUILD work.
:(
hoelzro =( 23:11
I can try to take a look at it
ooc, which TZ are you in?
Zoffix cygx, well, I give up (at least for now) :) I can't reproduce the issue locally and constantly bugging you to test a fix is annoying :)
hoelzro I'm UTC-6
dalek rl6-bench: f4abc8e | timotimo++ | perl6/send-more-money-subs:
at some point, Set.list became a list of Pair objects
rl6-bench: ace2bf8 | timotimo++ | minibenchmarks.pl:
pi_sequential_iteration requires a SCALE parameter
rl6-bench: 67c5ae9 | timotimo++ | perl6/ (2 files):
modernize insertion-sort and merge-sort

throws out feed-based construction in a loop for just xx, reformat with only spaces, no tabs mixed with spaces, Slip a list properly in insertion-sort.
timotimo i'm in UTF-8
23:11 camelia joined
zengargoyle what, -8 now? PST, best coast US. 23:11
diakopter___ eww 23:12
hoelzro I had never heard "best coast" until a few weeks ago
Zoffix Nothing obvious jumps out at me. And I know you said overflow fixes it, but we can't use that there, because overflow is there for mobiles... and I think that's what's causing the issue :) I think I saw something similar earlier and it's an interaction with the DataTAbles plugins. I'll take a look later
timotimo this fixes the 4 benchmarks that were missing from my last run
diakopter___ more like "left coast"
hoelzro I'm guessing those of us in the midwest are spared that =)
timotimo lest coast?
Zoffix Time for some Fallout 4 :P
\o night all
timotimo good luck, Zoffix! :)
hoelzro zengargoyle: does that gist go with a rakudo change?
23:12 kjs_ left
hoelzro Zoffix: night, have fun! 23:12
23:12 Zoffix left, ChanServ sets mode: +v camelia
cygx also clocks out o/ 23:14
hoelzro see you cygx
timotimo re-runs the benchmarks to get the extra results
hopefully in favor of our newest rakudo :3
zengargoyle that's just my hacking on a local branch... some changes in Grammar/Actions to make Pod::Block::Data nodes and that bit in World trying to assemble them.
23:14 cygx left 23:15 lsm-desktop joined
zengargoyle i had really hoped i could just do mumble('$=data', Pod::Data.new($*POD_BLOCKS_DATA)) and have it magically work. 23:16
hoelzro it's the serialization bits that trip you up?
zengargoyle seems so. various trials get me "can't stringify blah" or no method Numeric or other unhelpful error messages. 23:17
i think i don't quite get the border between nqp things and perl things. 23:18
hoelzro it's a pretty blurry line
especially in Rakudo land
timotimo yeah, also because things get hllized automatically at the border ... well, sometimes
zengargoyle it's just a bit grrr that i can get to being able to access the list-of-things from the Perl side but can't quite figure out how to munge them into a more complex thing. 23:20
hoelzro I think that's one of the bigger barriers to entry in working on rakudo 23:24
zengargoyle prolly need to finish that workshop material and look at some of the other global-like things that are a bit more complicated like $*KERNEL
hoelzro compile vs run time and nqp vs perl6
zengargoyle and might have to implement {} and [] stuff as methods instead of trying to use the magic ... handles<> type of stuff. 23:25
on the plus side, it wasn't that bad adding to Grammar/Actions to support gathering up the =data sections. 23:28
23:29 kilofoot joined 23:32 BenGoldberg joined
kilofoot p6: $_ = 'file.txt'; my $name; say $name if /^ $name = [.+] '.txt' $/; 23:35
camelia ( no output )
timotimo m: my $name; say "file.txt" ~~ /^ $name=[.+] '.txt' $/; say $name 23:37
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«Nil␤(Any)␤»
timotimo m:say "file.txt" ~~ /^ $<name>=[.+] '.txt' $/; say $<name>
m: say "file.txt" ~~ /^ $<name>=[.+] '.txt' $/; say $<name>
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«｢file.txt｣␤ name => ｢file｣␤｢file｣␤»
23:37 BenGoldberg left
timotimo m: say "file.txt" ~~ /^ $<name>=[.+] '.txt' $/; say $<name>.Str 23:37
camelia rakudo-moar : OUTPUT«｢file.txt｣␤ name => ｢file｣␤file␤»
23:37 Peter_R left 23:38 pmurias_ left 23:39 BenGoldberg joined
kilofoot timotimo: I want to capture to outer lexical variable 23:40
geraud hum... URI broke.
jdv79 :( 23:42
how so?
timotimo kilofoot: i don't actually know if that works, i've never tried it 23:43
jdv79 i think i am catching a cold. too much cokd rainy windy weather in the uk. 23:44
geraud jdv79: disclaimer : I can't do Perl 6 so, I'm just good at reading error messages and making intuition-backed assumptions (ie. stupid guesses) but :
jdv79 *cold
geraud it looks like jnthn's merge of pmurias 'excptions on wrong adverbs' about 8hrs ago broke a grammar include on URI. 23:45
jdv79 ... swollen glands ...
pink_mist jdv79: if you don't want cold windy rainy weather, you really are in the wrong place, aren't you? :P
jdv79: that said: damn, sucks :/
jdv79 yup. i was forced here.
geraud error message says : 23:46
===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /SOME_PATH/.panda-work/1447976032_1/lib/IETF/RFC_Grammar/URI.pm
Cannot use adverb version on a type name (only 'ver' and 'auth' are understood)
at /SOMEPATH/.panda-work/1447976032_1/lib/IETF/RFC_Grammar/URI.pm:11
------> version<0.02> is IETF::RFC_Grammar::IPv6⏏;
jdv79 geraud: ew
timotimo yeah, it says "version", but it should be "ver"
geraud: ^ 23:47
jdv79 bug it please
timotimo goes to bed
hoelzro night timotimo
jdv79 nitey nite
Mouq kilofoot: The spec says that's supposed to be allowed with $OUTER::name = …, but it's NYI
s/spec/design documents/
23:50 rurban left
BenGoldberg wonders whether that could be imlementable by secretly giving each lexical a "real" name like $0::name, $1::name, $2::name, where a bare $name is translated to the highest numbered container visible from that scope. 23:52
$OUTER::name would then be done by subtracting 1 from whatever $name would be aliased to.
s/"real"/secret (internal)/ 23:54
23:55 znpy left, sprocket left 23:56 espadrine left
mst BenGoldberg: amusingly, that's -exactly- how lexical scoping works in the VM I'm currently building 23:58
23:59 skids joined, kilofoot left

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