»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
00:03 vendethiel- left 00:04 Woodi left
tweakism m: " ".chars 00:08
camelia ( no output )
tweakism m: say " ".chars
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«1␤»
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timotimo i have cake and i have momodora; the day is improving 00:20
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Hotkeys m: say 1...3...-2...0...-5 00:32
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«(1 2 3 2 1 0 -1 -2 -1 0 -1 -2 -3 -4 -5)␤»
Hotkeys I didn't realize you could chain like that
partly_ m: role F {} sub MAIN() does F{} 00:33
m: role F {} sub MAIN() does F{ say "Boo" }
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/TVfD6WFzdN␤Strange text after block (missing semicolon or comma?)␤at /tmp/TVfD6WFzdN:1␤------> 3role F {}7⏏5 sub MAIN() does F{}␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ …»
Hotkeys probably need a semicolon
after the role
partly_ ahh thanks 00:34
dalek c: 9cfebc6 | (Eric de Hont)++ | doc/Type/Array.pod:
Update Array.pod

Make the difference for the shape method between normal arrays and arrays with fixed dimensions explicit.
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/bNLDndgJiw␤Strange text after block (missing semicolon or comma?)␤at /tmp/bNLDndgJiw:1␤------> 3role F {}7⏏5 sub MAIN() does F{ say "Boo" }␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix st…»
partly_ m: role F {}; sub MAIN() does F{ say "Boo" }
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/E27P3oUJmC␤Autovivifying object closures not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤at /tmp/E27P3oUJmC:1␤------> 3ole F {}; sub MAIN() does F{ say "Boo" }7⏏5<EOL>␤»
00:34 Ben_Goldberg is now known as BenGoldberg
Hotkeys and also F needs to do something 00:34
er
m: role F {}; sub MAIN() does F { say "Boo" }
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/xedkVHSlBq␤Cannot call trait_mod:<does>(Sub, F); none of these signatures match:␤ (Mu:U $doee, Mu:U $role)␤ (Variable:D $v, Mu:U $role)␤at /tmp/xedkVHSlBq:1␤» 00:35
Hotkeys I don't think you can '
does' a sub
partly_ Yeah that's the error I'm running into
m: role F[::Sub] {}; sub MAIN() does F{ say "Boo" }
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/mlkS9fBWFA␤Autovivifying object closures not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤at /tmp/mlkS9fBWFA:1␤------> 3:Sub] {}; sub MAIN() does F{ say "Boo" }7⏏5<EOL>␤» 00:36
Hotkeys space after F
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partly_ m: role F[::Sub] {}; sub MAIN() does F { say "Boo" } 00:36
BenGoldberg p: role F { };
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/W_Aeb8hjgH␤Cannot call trait_mod:<does>(Sub, F); none of these signatures match:␤ (Mu:U $doee, Mu:U $role)␤ (Variable:D $v, Mu:U $role)␤at /tmp/W_Aeb8hjgH:1␤»
BenGoldberg m: role F { }; 00:37
camelia ( no output )
BenGoldberg m: role F { }; sub nosig does F { };
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/UieVzeMEVM␤Cannot call trait_mod:<does>(Sub, F); none of these signatures match:␤ (Mu:U $doee, Mu:U $role)␤ (Variable:D $v, Mu:U $role)␤at /tmp/UieVzeMEVM:1␤»
BenGoldberg m: role F { }; sub nosig is F { }; 00:38
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/BfxNxc9SVv␤Can't use unknown trait 'is ' in a sub declaration.␤at /tmp/BfxNxc9SVv:1␤ expecting any of:␤ rw raw hidden-from-backtrace hidden-from-USAGE␤ pure default DEPRECATED inlinab…»
partly_ doc.perl6.org/language/objects#Para...ized_Roles ← Says that You can use parameter with role F[::Type], but this either seems not to work 00:39
m: role F[Sub] {}; sub MAIN() does F { say "Boo" }
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/P3ZeGd2TSp␤Cannot call trait_mod:<does>(Sub, F); none of these signatures match:␤ (Mu:U $doee, Mu:U $role)␤ (Variable:D $v, Mu:U $role)␤at /tmp/P3ZeGd2TSp:1␤»
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partly_ I think the documentation tries to hint, that roles can only be used on classes 00:46
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dalek osystem: 5137513 | (Andy Weidenbaum)++ | META.list:
Add module Crane
 00:52
osystem: fe05525 | (Andy Weidenbaum)++ | META.list:
Merge pull request #165 from atweiden/crane

Add module Crane
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edehont Great fun adding something to the documentation: doc.perl6.org/routine/shape doc.perl6.org/type/Array#method_shape 00:57
Please tell me if something is wrong there. I will correct it immediately.
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edehont I have a question. When I Start multiple blocks that want to shift from an array at some point, how do I protect the array from being shifted more than once at the same time? Is there a locking mechanism? 01:03
01:05 BenGoldberg_ is now known as BenGoldberg
TimToady there's a lock for low-level access, but this probably means you want to use something like a channel instead 01:07
edehont Thats what I want indeed, but I couldn't get it to work. I tried taps, but all the processes received all elements of the array at once. 01:11
01:14 BenGoldberg left
TimToady supplies are not exclusive; a channel will hand out exclusive values 01:16
edehont That's where I went wrong. I will have a closer look at the channels and come back when I still can't get it to work. 01:19
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edehont An example would still be appreciated, however :-) 01:21
My daily reboot is long overdue. CU! o/ 01:27
timotimo edenc: you could have used OO::Monitors from the ecosystem for this task 01:33
but using a Channel instead of an array that you pop from sounds like a better fit
edehont timotimo: So, a Channel is not something I can use to wrap around an array? 01:36
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geekosaur you could think of a Channel as inter-thread IPC 01:40
you would not wrap it around anything. in theory you could pass the array through the Channel, but that's usually not making sensible use of IPC.
01:41 BenGoldberg left 01:42 BenGoldberg joined
edehont geekosaur: I feel like someone with a hammer, looking for nails. I really have to go to sleep now. (2:43) I will look into the channels tomorrow. 01:44
timotimo gnite :) 01:46
edehont Bye!
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mr_ron m: my @a; my $b = Buf.new(@a) 01:53
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«This type does not support elems␤ in any at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 1723␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/NtgXHRtYbO line 1␤␤» 01:54
mr_ron That's the new Base64 failure 01:55
m: my uint8 @a; my $b = Buf.new(@a)
camelia ( no output )
mr_ron likely fix ... working on it ...
s/fix/workaround/ 01:59
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ugexe m: sub foo(Blob $x) { say "OK"; }; foo("".encode); # s/Blob.new($str.ords)/$str.encode/ seems to work 02:14
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«OK␤»
02:14 autogen is now known as aleogen 02:19 partly__ joined
ugexe oops thats encode, not decode :x 02:19
mr_ron I noticed - failure is on decode ...
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ugexe ah its MIME::Base64 02:24
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mr_ron m: my @a = (); my $b = Buf.new(@a); say $b.perl; my @a1; my $b1 = Buf.new(@a1) 03:10
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«Buf.new()␤This type does not support elems␤ in any at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 1723␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Gl7lWoGswW line 1␤␤»
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ugexe m: my @a; my $b = Buf.new(|@a); say $b.perl 03:51
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«Buf.new()␤»
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dalek c: ecba519 | LLFourn++ | doc/Language/5to6-perlvar.pod:
5to6: Gave examples of how @INC and %INC in p6

or the closest p6 equivalent at least.		 05:44
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kaare_ Any NativeCall supermen present? 07:04
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dalek kudo/nom: a586b20 | lizmat++ | src/core/Parameter.pm:
Streamline Parameter.ACCEPTS

Improves from a few % (for simple :(Int).params[0]) to 50x for something like :(:a(:b(:c($x))) (Str $f, Str $k)).params[0]		 08:57
08:58 lizmat joined
lizmat good *, #perl6! 08:58
dalek osystem: 28512e7 | okaoka++ | META.list:
Add Algorithm::KdTree to ecosystem

See github.com/okaoka/p6-Algorithm-KdTree		 08:59
osystem: 672bb20 | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
Merge pull request #166 from okaoka/add-kdtree

Add Algorithm::KdTree to ecosystem
llfourn my commit to docs seems to have caused a segfault lol 09:03
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc 09:04
09:05 lizmat left
llfourn (trying again now) 09:07
09:18 lizmat joined 09:19 lizmat left
_nadim someone can enlighten me here? 09:23
===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /home/lab/devel/devel/perl_modules/P6-Data-Dump-Tree/42_type_regexp.t
Only identical operators may be list associative; since 'does' and 'does' differ, they are non-associative and you need to clarify with parentheses
llfourn golf?
09:23 vendethiel joined
_nadim sure, my $d = Data::Dump::Tree.new does DDTR::MatchDetails does DDTR::PerlString ; 09:25
RabidGravy no, golf is 09:26
09:26 avenj left
RabidGravy m: class F { }; role G { }; role H { }; my $f = F.new does H does G; 09:27
09:27 maybekoo2 joined
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/myHncVJ05i␤Only identical operators may be list associative; since 'does' and 'does' differ, they are non-associative and you need to clarify with parentheses␤at /tmp/myHncVJ05i:1␤------> 3G { }; role H …» 09:28
llfourn RabidGravy++ # that's some nice golf
m: class F { }; role G { }; role H { }; my $f = (F.new does H) does G;
camelia ( no output )
llfourn _nadim: ^^ 09:29
RabidGravy yeah
llfourn m: class F { }; role G { }; role H { }; my $f = (F but H,G).new
_nadim well putting the parenthesis was prety obvious and listed in the error message, what I asked fr what enlightenment, IE, why.
camelia ( no output )
llfourn m: class F { }; role G { }; role H { }; my $f = (F but H,G).new.perl.say 09:30
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«()␤»
llfourn oops :P
09:30 avenj joined
RabidGravy the does doesn't return the thing so it isn't list associative 09:30
afaik
_nadim Ah, makes sense, thank you. 09:31
llfourn m: class F { }; role G { }; role H { }; my $f = F but H,G; say $f.^name;
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«F+{H}␤»
llfourn camelia slow today?
RabidGravy since yesterday
llfourn m: class F { }; role G { }; role H { }; my $f = F but H but G; say $f.^name; 09:32
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/DTfPanXbM9␤Only identical operators may be list associative; since 'but' and 'but' differ, they are non-associative and you need to clarify with parentheses␤at /tmp/DTfPanXbM9:1␤------> 3role G { }; role…»
llfourn m: class F { }; role G { }; role H { }; my $f = F but (H but G); say $f.^name;
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«Method 'mixin' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::ParametricRoleGroupHOW'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/qfdxknjRVy line 1␤␤»
llfourn m: class F { }; role G { }; role H { }; my $f = (F but H) but G; say $f.^name; 09:33
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«F+{H}+{G}␤»
_nadim I've added a new method that takes a does list. cheating a bit till I understood, well someone explained, why.
llfourn _nadim: you can just do .^mixin 09:34
m: class F { }; role G { }; role H { }; my $f = F.^mixin(H,G).new; say $f.^name;
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«F+{H,G}␤»
llfourn m: class F { }; role G { }; role H { }; my $f = F.new does H,G; say $f.^name; 09:35
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«F+{H}␤»
llfourn m: class F { }; role G { }; role H { }; my $f = F.new does (H,G); say $f.^name;
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«F+{H,G}␤»
_nadim llfourn: nice!
llfourn oh and that works, does can take a list
_nadim even nicer IMO 09:36
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sortiz \o #perl6 09:39
09:40 jjido left
lizmat sortiz o/ 09:40
dalek Iish: 996042f | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | lib/DBDish/ (4 files):
Better Statement execution handling

  - Add .Executed and .Finished methods
  - Cleaner rows affected reporting
  - More info on error reports		 09:41
Iish: 6df5b22 | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | lib/DBDish/Pg/Native.pm6:
Pg: Export constants, Str (not str) to up level
Iish: c1d1ac2 | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | lib/DBDish/StatementHandle.pm6:
Factorize StatementHandle.allrows as multi methods
Iish: a692de8 | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | / (6 files):
mysql: Reworked internals, now with native methods.

Add Bool :Prefetch (default True) to `.prepare` for select data read mode
   This switch between `mysql_store_result` and `mysql_use_result`,
   see the C API for pros and cons.
Now handles columns with Blob (binary data) type. Closes #10, our oldest.
   See `t/26-mysql-blob.t` for usage details.
Iish: 782a899 | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | lib/DBIish/CommonTesting.pm6:
Updated common test suite, testing new features
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dalek kudo/nom: 7fab8e7 | lizmat++ | src/core/Buf.pm:
Fix problem with Buf.new(my @a)

Spotted by Ronald Schmidt		 09:44
09:45 spider-mario joined
dalek ast: b2ac729 | lizmat++ | S03-operators/buf.t:
Add tests for Blob|Buf.new(my @a)
 09:49
lizmat
.oO( we need more tests )
.tell jnthn I'm a bit confused as to the meaning of Signature.ACCEPTS 09:54
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
llfourn is interested in the subject of Signature.ACCEPTS 09:55
lizmat .tell jnthn as it seems to include a check on "returns"
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
lizmat llfourn: how so?
llfourn lizmat: well we have this feature of role requiring multi methods
lizmat I'm about to refactor it, but I'm unsure as to what it should exactly do?
llfourn but it is buggy 09:56
lizmat yeah, but that doesn't use Signature.ACCEPTS (anymore)
llfourn lizmat: yes but I think it should
lizmat llfourn: it still is??
it's still buggy ???
llfourn I think that if we get Signature.ACCEPTS right a lot of things could fall into place
09:56 jjido joined
llfourn yes 09:56
09:56 ChoHag_ is now known as ChoHag
lizmat is there a ticket I should check? 09:56
llfourn rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=127303 09:57
because it doesn't use ACCEPTS it uses string comparisions which don't work out when comparing signatures
lizmat checks
llfourn I also think that if a role requires multi foo(Int) { }, you should be able to satisfy that requirement with multi foo (Real) { } etc 09:58
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llfourn I haven't thought it out fully but I think if we re-imagined role requiring methods with stubs to check Signature.ACCEPTS to see if it has been implemented in general it could be an amazing feature. 09:59
lizmat ok, that makes sense.. I'll be looking at resolving that ticket now 10:00
partly__ So i played around with Exceptions yesterday/today. I added a var RAKUDO_ONLY_ROBOTS which when set will print errors in format %f:%l,%c→%m
llfourn m: role R { method foo (Int) { ... } }; class A does R { method foo(Str) { } } # IMO this should fail 10:01
camelia ( no output )
llfourn lizmat: it depends if we want to take role-as-interface specification seriously or not
partly__ Currently only X::Comp::Exceptions are printed out like this, but I though about extending it to all Exceptions, may be with a role. Do you think it's a good idea?
lizmat partly__: I like the idea, but fail to see how that would easily generalize 10:02
llfourn partly__: an idea, we have augment" 10:03
partly__: maybe you can make the changes in a module
partly__ lizmat: well the role offer just a proto sub which needed to be implemented by an exception if it wants to have errorformat compatible errors 10:04
s/offer/offers/g
llfourn do augment Exception { }, and somehow get it all to go into an environment variable and then we can see how well the idea works in practice.
lizmat ah, ok, like that... hhmmm...
sounds like a plan I guess: not sure what jnthn / TimToady would think about it 10:05
RabidGravy I'm actually failing to find a use case that isn;t already catered for by using specific exception types, but that's me
partly__ RabidGravy: There whole error printing logic is all over the place. Just the ===SORRY 10:06
.. just the ===SORRY!=== stuff is duplicated at least 3 times
Every exception besides the X::Comp exception have an own logic how to construct the error message (which i think makes the more readable for humans). It's hard do create one method which just reformats the .gist/.message returns 10:07
llfourn m: use MONKEY-TYPING; role R { method do-something { "win".say } }; BEGIN augment class X::AdHoc does R { }; try { die "foo" }; say $!.do-something 10:08
partly__ But augment may be a good alternative.
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«win␤True␤»
llfourn Though the above doesn't work if you do augment Exception so maybe it's not a good idea. 10:09
(I think it's a bug)
partly__ m: use MONKEY-TYPING; augment class Exception { method f() { } }; try { die "foo" }; say $!.f(); 10:10
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«Method 'f' not found for invocant of class 'X::AdHoc'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/_ymMJfFOZQ line 1␤␤»
llfourn yeah :\
it seems I RT'd something similar RT #127520 10:11
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=127520
10:11 kjs_ left
partly__ Also why is Method not a compile time exception? 10:12
llfourn partly__: because you can add methods at runtime 10:13
partly__ Because it's not a descendant of X::Comp it does not have a linenumber and file (which is pretty helpfull)
llfourn hmm it should still have those I would have though?
partly__ llfourn: → and this methods would not have a line number
makes sense 10:14
llfourn or at least when it's thrown you get a line number?
anyway I need to learn more about exceptions
partly__++ for looking into improving them :)
partly__ llfourn: yeah when thrown, make sense
llfourn food & 10:15
partly__ I kind of trying that, but it's hard to completely understand where what is thrown and initialized.
Another question. Given that I use rakudobrew and I have a cloned git repository of rakudo I'm working on, how do I command rakudobrew to build the rakudo version in a specified dir and install it? 10:16
Is it even possible to install a custom version with rakudobrew if you do not maintain an official fork? 10:17
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[Tux] test 22.254 10:18
test-t 12.638
csv-parser 52.116
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Woodi hi #perl6 :) 10:28
more WordPress fun: news.softpedia.com/news/popular-wor...1383.shtml 10:29
nine kaare_: what do you need? 10:39
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partly__ Is there some default short cut for pushing something in an array? I.e: @a ← "foo" 10:52
(besides just push) 10:53
llfourn partly__: .append 10:56
oh you want it short. No. 10:58
m: my @a = <one two three>; @a[*] = "four"; say @a.perl 10:59
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«["four", Mu, Mu]␤»
llfourn m: my @a = <one two three>; @a[*+0] = "four"; say @a.perl
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«["one", "two", "three", "four"]␤» 11:00
llfourn m: my @a = <one two three>; @a[+*] = "four"; say @a.perl
RabidGravy just what I was going to say
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«["one", "two", "three", "four"]␤»
llfourn i'd stick with @a.push: "foo", that way is almost as bad as php $a[] = "foo" # if I remember php correctly 11:01
what is the first one trying to do anyway? 11:03
m: my @a = <one two three>; @a[*] = <four five six>; @a.perl.say
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«["four", "five", "six"]␤»
llfourn m: my @a = <one two three>; @a[^*] = <four five six>; @a.perl.say 11:04
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«["four", "five", "six"]␤»
11:04 RabidGravy left
llfourn to me it makes more sense that * defaults to .elems rather than doing the same thing as ^*. 11:04
CIAvash m: my @a = <one two three>; "four" ==> @a; say @a.perl 11:05
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camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«["one", "two", "three", "four"]␤» 11:05
llfourn stands corrected
m: my @a = <one two three>; @a <== "four"; say @a.perl; 11:06
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«["one", "two", "three", "four"]␤»
llfourn m: @a ← "foo"
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/_tTiSZQyWi␤Variable '@a' is not declared␤at /tmp/_tTiSZQyWi:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5@a ← "foo"␤» 11:07
llfourn m: my @a = <one two three>; @a ← "four"; say @a.perl;
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/5VtNvtzVK9␤Confused␤at /tmp/5VtNvtzVK9:1␤------> 3my @a = <one two three>; @a7⏏5 ← "four"; say @a.perl;␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ statement end␤ …»
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AlexDaniel llfourn: hmm what would be the unicode equivalent of ==> and <== ? 11:08
llfourn AlexDaniel: is ← being used for anything? 11:09
AlexDaniel llfourn: no gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/c89bd2786f9b63f31e4c
llfourn this thing? ⟸
AlexDaniel: ooh nice 11:10
AlexDaniel++
AlexDaniel llfourn: ⟸ is cool but how is that going to look like in a fixed-width font, hmm…
llfourn I think you just answered that question :P 11:11
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llfourn ⇐ # shorter 11:11
partly__ llfourn: thanks for the hint with <==
llfourn that was CIAvash++ but no problem :) 11:12
partly__ CIAvash :)
CIAvash :)
AlexDaniel llfourn: ⇒ would probably be =>. So ⇐ is probably not good enough
⤆ ⤇ maybe
11:12 kjs_ joined
llfourn ⬅ bolder? 11:13
AlexDaniel :/
llfourn :D ⟽ will stop making suggestions 11:14
I seem to remember there being some conterversy about ==> and <== 11:16
partly__ Well if you really want to add a unicode sign for that i would gow with ⇐, because you can enter it in vim with digraphs
AlexDaniel partly__: uh, but fat arrow?
partly__: =>
m: say 42 => 69
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«42 => 69␤»
partly__ ohh right 11:17
llfourn ➧ # fat arrow
partly__ I can't enter ⟸ with COMPOSE or digraphs afaik. At least I find only the short DOUBLE ARROW 11:18
AlexDaniel partly__: well, just because you can't enter some character doesn't mean that we can't use it :) 11:19
(go fix your tools!)
partly__ Uhh don't get me started on Xkb and stuff :-O 11:20
dalek line-Perl5: 7906dce | (Stefan Seifert)++ | / (5 files):
Fix calling inherited package methods of Perl 5 packages

Post-GLR changes broke Perl5Package's FALLBACK which is used when calling inherited package methods. Need to use slurpy arguments now.		 11:22
partly__ There is no difference between ? and so, is there?
llfourn partly__: they both call .so afaik
partly__ thanks
11:24 jjido left
AlexDaniel m: say so ?.so 11:28
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«False␤»
AlexDaniel m: say ? ? ? ? .WHAT # WAT? :) 11:30
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«False␤» 11:31
llfourn m: say ?!?!?! Cool
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«True␤»
[Tux] test 22.599 11:32
test-t 12.951
csv-parser 54.036
(rebuilt from scratch)
seems to be slower again
AlexDaniel llfourn: yeah, that's even better 11:33
llfourn .tell lizmat btw RT #127444 is about Signature.ACCEPTS. Wrt to what it's meant to do, I thought that it A.ACCEPTS(B) should return true if B accepts a subset of A's parameters. ie every :(Real $b) ~~ :(Int $a) # True
yoleaux llfourn: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=127444
AlexDaniel m: say +?!~-?+~!?+!+~? Cool
llfourn |Tux|: nooo getting slower :P
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«0␤» 11:34
llfourn although I don't think that's what's causing camelia to be so slow
AlexDaniel camelia: stop mining bitcoins! 11:36
m: my %h; %h <== ‘hi’ 11:38
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«Trailing item in Hash.append in block <unit> at /tmp/WVUbzMjWFt line 1␤»
AlexDaniel m: my $l; $l <== ‘foo’, ‘bar’; say $l 11:39
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«[foo bar]␤»
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llfourn I have a sad panda story 11:49
I used panda --prefix=~/tmp/somewhere install blah 11:50
which actually created a dir named ~
then I did rm -rf ~ to fix my mistake
vendethiel yes, that's correct
oh
oops.
llfourn it's ok because apparently I have so much crap in ~ that nothing I care about got deleted
ofc I understand why that happened in retrospect 11:51
vendethiel you'd like panda to warn if $prefix.starts-with('~')? 11:52
(and abort)
llfourn I think that's probably a good idea
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timotimo in general, i think it'd be cool if we did the proper thing with paths in env vars that (may?) have variable names in them and the ~ 11:58
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llfourn m: say $*HOME 11:59
k-man always prefix things with ./~ to ensure it gets the file not the glob is what I was tought... but would it work in that instance I'm not sure
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«"/home/camelia".IO␤»
kaare_ nine: Oh, I really want to use the select(2) system call.
llfourn k-man: o/ I certainly agree :)
k-man :) 12:00
kaare_ But it's not in the 5 -> 6 migration path, so I was looking at the POSIX module, trying to see how to implement it.
llfourn k-man: It would have worked. rm -rf ./~ would have deleted the right thing
k-man ls: ./~: No such file or directory so i guess it would work
yeah
RabidGravy kaare_, strangely I made a noddy binding to select just the other day to test something, it works 12:01
kaare_ RabidGravy: OK, can you share some code?
RabidGravy depends on what you want to do with it as to whether it's useful to you 12:02
kaare_ I would call it. Any other purposes available? 12:03
llfourn ah I seem I *did* delete my rakudobrew and panda installations so at least the culprit was punished. 12:04
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RabidGravy well I was going to share the code until you were sarcastic 12:04
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RabidGravy ;-p 12:04
kaare_ ok, sorry, sorry! 12:05
Being sarcastic would be something like "I' like to serve it on a bed of Jerusalem Artichokes" or something ;-)
RabidGravy I only needed to test for the "no FDs just for the waiting side effect"
so if you want to use it to wait for the file handles then you will have to implement the making the FD sets yourself 12:06
kaare_ No, I know very little Perl 6, almost no c, and absolutely nothing about the system calls. So it's a bit challenging
RabidGravy gist.github.com/jonathanstowe/23a9...0fef8c8588
well, you're stuffed then 12:07
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kaare_ Actually, I'm sure I can use that to get some actual play started. Thanks. 12:08
RabidGravy the hard bit is implementing the FD_SET macro 12:09
kaare_ Is that what is done with vec() in Perl 5? 12:10
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RabidGravy er possibly 12:11
think I've used vec once in twenty years
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kaare_ OK, thanks anyway. I've used all available time today, so I'll have to stuff it in the play projects drawer again. Hopefully not for too long. 12:13
CIAvash llfourn++ for the require fix # wanted to say this a few weeks ago but ... :) 12:15
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Skarsnik damn, I though Discord:ver<0.0.1>:auth<Sylvain Colinet [email@hidden.address] already installed 12:19
error in panda was solved x)
12:20 xiaomiao joined
llfourn CIAvash: thanks! # thanks to RabidGravy++ for saving the ecosystem after the require fix broke everything :P 12:20
RabidGravy moi? 12:21
llfourn toi!
timotimo the error is solved if and only if you --force, or if you up the version number :)
at least that's what i seem to recall 12:22
kaare_ nine: One more q, though. I wonder why I don't need to include any c headers.
RabidGravy Skarsnik, with regard to the H::UA thing, in the case where the Response constructor gets no data or where it can't find a valid HTTP response line I propose to just set the code to 500 with some headers indicating that it was set locally and let the upstream decide what to do with that? 12:24
Skarsnik There is a Internal execption already in h::UA 12:25
damn DBIish can't be installed
kaare_ RabidGravy I meant <sigh> 12:26
RabidGravy kaare_, because it "only" dynamically links to the library at run time it doesn't need that, it just needs the name of the function and the library where it is found
nine kaare_: because NativeCall doesn't compile anything. It accesses the binary libraries directly. You tell NativeCall how the library looks like by giving it the function signatures in Perl 6
RabidGravy and getting the arguments right helps too if you don't want a segfault
partly__ m: sub f() returns Str { "asd" }; sub f() returns Int { 3 }; my Str $b = f(); say $b;
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/dhQGpcR3X5␤Redeclaration of routine f␤at /tmp/dhQGpcR3X5:1␤------> 3Str { "asd" }; sub f() returns Int { 3 }7⏏5; my Str $b = f(); say $b;␤ expecting any of:␤ horizontal whitespace␤ …»
Skarsnik hm, it's new? t/26-mysql-blob.t 12:27
partly__ No idea how to express the above in one line, but basically instead of being "smart" and picking the first variant of the sub it picks the one which returns Int 12:29
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woolfy The monster is alive! 12:30
12:31 woolfy left
partly__ Hmm the return type is not a part of the signature so it's the same routine for the parser? 12:31
vendethiel :o
partly__: no overloading on return type :) 12:32
RabidGravy partly__, it also needs to be a "multi"
partly__ ok 12:33
12:34 Laurent_R left
RabidGravy in principle you could implement your own dispatcher that takes iinto account a declared return type but in the general case it is not possible 12:35
kaare_ The thing I don't get is, how does it know what to call. What if I want a 'select' in another c library?
RabidGravy you would give the native trait the library name 12:36
in the "select" case it is assumed to be in the already loaded C runtime library
timotimo i don't think a c compiler lets you have two functions called "select" from different libraries 12:37
except perhaps if you #undefine it in between usages and add the other definition in the middle?
dalek Iish: 97d14f1 | (Sylvain Colinet)++ | t/26-mysql-blob.t:
Added test skip in t/26 if mysql fail to connect to not prevent DBIish to be installed
 12:38
RabidGravy C++ has to be good for something ;-) 12:39
Skarsnik timotimo, I think it work with dlopen, since you just pick up symbol on a given file
timotimo right, there you can have overloading
Skarsnik: right. that's why i said "a c compiler" :) 12:40
Skarsnik I am not sure what happened
vendethiel timotimo: you can't #undefine a function :P
timotimo vendethiel: why not?
vendethiel because preprocessor <=> compiler
timotimo that makes sense
RabidGravy you probably could hack around it in the preprocessor but I don't want to think about that 12:41
Skarsnik You can do fake overloading 12:42
in C
with like checking a size of the type given and have macro around that xD
RabidGravy yeah after all the first C++ implementations were just extensions to the preprocessor, awful and slow but somewhat worky 12:43
Skarsnik like void real_function(data, sizedata) {} #defined function(x) real_function(x, sizeof(x))
RabidGravy I think SCO shipped one like that until they went boom 12:44
vendethiel you can do overloading in C with C11 :) 12:51
#define function(x) _Generic((x), float: ...)
RabidGravy anyway this isn't getting any code written, lots of stuff to write and not enough time 12:52
and I must not get distracted by doing a binding to getpeername() as I don't need that right now 13:00
Skarsnik x) 13:01
have gptrixie do it for you x) 13:03
damn perl6 now look really faster than 2-3 months ago x) 13:04
RabidGravy no, no, I'm not going to do it at all
lizmat hoelz.ro/blog/finding-most-common-russian-ngrams hoelzro++ 13:07
yoleaux 11:33Z <llfourn> lizmat: btw RT #127444 is about Signature.ACCEPTS. Wrt to what it's meant to do, I thought that it A.ACCEPTS(B) should return true if B accepts a subset of A's parameters. ie every :(Real $b) ~~ :(Int $a) # True
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=127444
lizmat .tell hoelzro note that you can do Str.comb(Int $n) for $n chars (which is much faster :-) 13:08
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to hoelzro.
timotimo heyo lizmat :)
lizmat timotimo o/ 13:09
lizmat just got home
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llfourn lizmat: doh that should be the other way around. :(Int $a) ~~ :(Real $b) # True 13:23
lizmat yeah, these things can trip you up :-) 13:24
llfourn yeP A.ACCEPTS(B) is $B ~~ $A gets me every time :P 13:25
dalek kudo/nom: 38a2bfe | lizmat++ | src/core/Signature.pm:
Some refinements in Capture eqv Capture
lizmat afk again for a few hours&
llfourn m: say :(Int $a) ~~ :(Real $b)
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«True␤»
llfourn m: say :(Int $a) ~~ :(Real $b?) 13:26
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«True␤»
llfourn m: say :(Int $a?) ~~ :(Real $b)
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«False␤»
llfourn m: say :(Int $a?) ~~ :(*@a) 13:27
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«True␤»
llfourn m: say :(Int $a?) ~~ :($a is rw)
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«False␤» 13:28
llfourn m: say :(Int $a) ~~ :($a is rw)
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«True␤»
llfourn ah ha!
I knew I could find a way to trip it up
m: say :($a) ~~ ($a is rw) 13:30
m: say :($a) ~~ :($a is rw)
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/DDPbVQ4Kac␤Variable '$a' is not declared␤at /tmp/DDPbVQ4Kac:1␤------> 3say :($a) ~~ (7⏏5$a is rw)␤»
rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«True␤»
masak finally sits down and starts tinkering with his GPW talks 13:31
yoleaux 5 Mar 2016 15:12Z <pmurias> masak: it's not DWIM to me as I wouldn't ever expect that without looking it up
5 Mar 2016 15:13Z <pmurias> masak: it seems to be something inherited from awk
masak oh, awk. didn't know that.
I think I agree that it's not all that obvious. though I have a feeling it's rather *convenient*, and we might want to think about not throwing that away.
timotimo oh hey masak :) 13:32
what were you talking about there?
my first guess is flip-flop operators :)
masak "" as record separator when doing line-based input 13:33
timotimo oh, for paragraphs?
llfourn .tell lizmat another possible bug: say :($a) ~~ :($a is rw) # returns True but it should be False IMO, is rw is narrower 13:34
yoleaux llfourn: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
masak (with the semantics "read paragraph-wise" or "separator is /\n\n+/")
timotimo yes, rw is narrower
partly__ I'm getting the exception cannot unbox to a native string 13:35
FROGGS masak: ohh you start now? phew, and I thought starting yesterday was a bad idea :o) 13:36
masak partly__: are you able to show a (golfed) piece of code that produces this error?
partly__ i have a line number (i guess it's an int) which i try to concat to a string.
timotimo huh, that should stringify just fine for you
masak FROGGS: I tried to start yesterday. but the procrastination is strong with this one.
timotimo can you golf that?
partly__ timotimo: this is in rakudo/src/core/Exception.pm
FROGGS currently I've got 120 lines of notes / stubbed slides 13:39
I hope that's enough for a 40 minutes talk
though I guess I need less slides per minute anyway, because I'm going to explain much per slide 13:40
partly__ timotimo, masak: gist.github.com/kalkin/7e3492ac9c4...n-pm6-L909 13:41
timotimo ooooh feed syntax
Skarsnik hm, This page was generated the 2016-03-06 in 26.6092489 seconds with Perl 6.c (rakudo (2015.12.199.g.5.ed.58.f.6)) - This page was generated the 2016-03-06 in 27.96024130 seconds with Perl 6.c (rakudo (2016.2.88.g.7.fab.8.e.7)) for the same page
FROGGS partly__: you probably want to join the routine names, no?
Skarsnik weird that it's 2 sec slower 13:42
masak partly__: well, the `nqp::hllize($routine)` stands out as a very likely candidate for your troubles
FROGGS partly__: so try nqp::hllize($routine).name in the map block
timotimo Skarsnik: if it's run on our p6c, it can very well be interfered with by other processes and hard drive seeking times/caching etc etc
partly__ FROGGS: actually i want to print %f:%l→ %m
i wanted to get the linenumbers and copy pasted from sub l() 13:43
llfourn if you scroll up [Tux]'s CSV benchmarks seemed to be slower as well
Skarsnik I don't know, time was consistent between each day for these
partly__ which is called in L915
where do i find docs on nqp::hllize?
Skarsnik it's a lot of DBIish call and Template::Mojo behind 13:44
FROGGS partly__: if it is anywhere it is here: github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/master/d...s.markdown 13:45
llfourn tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed4.html # charts putting recent spike in slowness in perspective [Tux]++ 13:46
[Tux] thnx
timotimo :BY<&defoid W W u u u U u U u u> 13:56
timotimo is reminded of a spooky ghost
WTB: a html-export or app or something to work more easily with QAST dumped output 13:58
but the current dump format is absolutely horrifying to parse 14:01
masak would a dump format especially developed for the purpose help? 14:04
timotimo yes 14:05
can even be json
llfourn I flag to turn on json execption dumps would be nice
s/I/a/ 14:06
partly__ when recompiling rakudo it takes 52 seconds at State parse and 8 at optimize and 17 at mast even if I changed only one line. Is there a way to speed it up at some of the stages? 14:09
timotimo there is not, sadly
a theoretical way to make things faster is to have a setting that strips out a few things 14:10
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timotimo Set, Bag, Mix and friends are likely candidates, as well as the sockets and parallelism stuff 14:10
partly__ ic, thanks 14:13
timotimo if you're interested, you could try to build that :)
not sure how to best go about that
partly__ timotimo: let me add support for VIM errorformat to the exceptions and if I finish it up, then we will see :). 14:14
timotimo oh, neat
btw, with so many exceptions giving pretty good suggestions what to do instead, we could totally have a tool that creates and optionally immediately applies changes to your code 14:15
partly__ Btw here is a syntastic perl6 checker which handles some of the exceptions i've seen with the current error format github.com/kalkin/syntastic/blob/p.../perl6.vim 14:16
It's mostly copy/pasta from the perl checker, but it kind of works 14:17
timotimo cool
Skarsnik gah, did some backtrace disapear again? I get Use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context without line/file 14:24
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dalek c: c2e3e18 | jjatria++ | doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod:
Fix markup in nutshell headers
 14:29
c: 1fd720c | sylvarant++ | doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod:
Merge pull request #415 from jjatria/fix-nutshell-headers

Fix markup in nutshell headers
partly__ m: "asd".^roles ∈ Stringy 14:30
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/Yz7SIZa7rG:␤Useless use of "∈" in expression ".^roles ∈ Stringy" in sink context (line 1)␤»
partly__ m: Stringy ∈ "asd".^roles 14:31
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/QsvGA_YuqS:␤Useless use of "∈" in expression "Stringy ∈ \"asd\".^roles" in sink context (line 1)␤»
timotimo how about a "say" in there?
14:31 TimToady left
partly__ m: say(Stringy ∈ "asd".^roles) 14:31
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«True␤»
partly__ Ahh nice, thanks 14:32
I it idiomatic enough for a check if given something implements a role?
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masak m: say "asd" ~~ Stringy 14:34
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«True␤»
masak partly__: that's idiomatic ;)
partly__ masak: ic. I must learn to embrace ~~ even if it always looks to me like a lot of MAGIC 14:36
:)
masak it's the right kind of magic
and IMO it's fewer moving parts than ∈ and .^roles
jnthn It's probably also a dozen times faster :) 14:37
yoleaux 09:54Z <lizmat> jnthn: I'm a bit confused as to the meaning of Signature.ACCEPTS
09:55Z <lizmat> jnthn: as it seems to include a check on "returns"
partly__ masak: yes of course
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brrt hey #perl6. i'm looking for a way to automatically run a TAP test and get a boolean for broken/not broken 15:22
timotimo "prove" should do that for you 15:23
llfourn brrt: by boolean do you mean p6 Bool or shell status?
brrt hmm, gooid point timotimo
llfourn either way I guess prove is the answer :P
timotimo prove it.
brrt y'all know 15:24
i figured something out, about python, just this week
it dawned on me that python is not actually a scripting language
timotimo oh? 15:25
do enlighten us
brrt making a script, as in, a small thing that easily wires together a lot of external functionality, as per bash script, javascript, perl, ruby even
is a *huge* pain in python
timotimo what, because it forces you to be so correct about things? :P
brrt what do you think is equivalent to q:x["foo bar"]
llfourn import herp from derp; herp("foo bar") # or something 15:26
timotimo subprocess.Popen?
brrt it is; import subprocess; try: output = subprocess.check_output(['foo', 'bar']);str_output = output.decode('utf-8'); except subprocess.Error as e: logging.exception(e) yadyaydayadyadya
python is about as unfluent in calling out, shelling out, as java might well be 15:27
llfourn but isn't JS pretty similar in that? 15:28
I mean JS has script in the name so it must be a script
but I guess it's not java at all so it may as well not be a script
brrt good point 15:29
geekosaur brrt, the line between script and language has been at best extremely bluirry for years
brrt counterpoint: javascript is very much 'scripting' it's native environment, notably, the browser
llfourn good counterpoint
geekosaur you can't even use something like "runs from the top" vs. "uses a defined entry point" --- FORTRAN violates that 15:30
llfourn I guess we can synthesize by saying that node is not a scripting language
brrt agreed on that
geekosaur: my point on scripting is actually simple: does it exist to leverage the functionality of other systems, or does it exist to build systems of? 15:31
llfourn geekosaur: but what do you think about brrt's definition of easily being able to interact and take effect on the outside environment.
timotimo C scripts CPUs :P
brrt extreme example of the former being bash, extreme example of the latter being, well, fortran
15:32 CIAvash left
brrt my point here is that python is amazingly un-good at being like bash 15:32
geekosaur brrt, I'd say perl itself (in all its forms) messes with your definition :)
brrt oh, yes
gloriously :-)
but perl is better at being like bash, than python is
at least, that's how i feel when writing it 15:33
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geekosaur (I also wonder what you'd think of m4 -i | sh) 15:34
(the original V7 manpage's comment on that was glorious)
I'd also note that tcl was designed to be a scripting glue language, and its shellout stuff has always been wonky (only really fixed in very recent versions) 15:36
mostly because that points up that you aren't so much talking about scripting, as being a *shell* glue language. python and tcl are glue at the *function* level, not the shell level 15:37
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llfourn even though python is apparently not a scripting language it is used as the sole delivery mechanism by Ansible in order to configure stuff. 15:37
geekosaur it also elevates the shell in ways that are largely unjustified. the shell is actually a pretty lousy way to do anything other than the most straightforward glue
which is a large part of why Larry created Perl 15:38
brrt no, now i'm thinking your taking my 'like bash' to literally
geekosaur actually I'm taking your example in scrollback of running a subprocess in python
yes, it's annoying to do the stuff that's trivial in the shell. my counterpoint is it's easier to do something more complex than that in Python, than it is to do it in a shell 15:39
brrt yes
but my point was slightly different than that
geekosaur also the shell makes it easy to ignore error cases, where python forces you to deal with them 15:40
brrt to bash, the environment with which it interacts, is your OS with all its tools and environment
python makes it dififcult and annoying to deal with its environment in the same way
you'll be basically be a happier python programmer using only python modules and never calling out to anything
so python limits - culturally - its environment to the python-world as it were 15:41
llfourn os.environ["FOO"] = .. vs %ENV{FOO} = .. vs FOO= 15:42
brrt as a result, your python program will deal with the world in a pythonic way
i'm not bashing python, by the way
geekosaur right, I'm thinking that that is actually quite common in modern languages... and it has good reasons
brrt yes. but for the purposes of scripting together some behavior, that mostly lives elsewhere, its just not as easy or fluent as perl or even bash would have been 15:43
geekosaur so, while people tend to point to things like the "line noise" aspect of perl 5, I think their real problem is that it requires them to switch mental contexts too much --- some things work like shell, others like other things. most people have trouble doing that kind of context switching 15:44
brrt hmmm
probably that is true, yes
geekosaur python and many other languages address that by bringing as much as possible into a single context
brrt (can i have prove run a single test?) 15:45
yes, that makes it a bit like java
llfourn (yes you can: prove -e 'perl6 -Ilib' some/test.t)
geekosaur (this also comes up in Haskell, many FFI interfaces look very much like their original languages instead of like Haskell and there are fairly severe impedance mismatches when combining with Haskell code)
llfourn (if you mean single test file) 15:46
brrt (that is exactly what i meant :-))
hmm interesting point geekosaur 15:48
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nine brrt: I see the dividing line between scripting languages and others in if the programs and libraries are delivered primarliy in source or in binary form 15:53
brrt hmmm
that is also not unreasonable
hoelzro lizmat: ah, thanks for the tip! I didn't know about that variant of .comb! 15:56
yoleaux 13:08Z <lizmat> hoelzro: note that you can do Str.comb(Int $n) for $n chars (which is much faster :-)
timotimo how come t/spec/S32-num/power.rakudo.moar passes some TODOs? 16:00
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dalek kudo-star-daily: 4fcecc7 | coke++ | log/ (8 files):
today (automated commit)
 16:07
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AlexDaniel timotimo: I think that it's fine. Which ones exactly? 16:18
timotimo: some of them are “passes on OSX, fails on Linux”
timotimo TODO passed: 13-15, 68-70 16:20
Skarsnik hm, how do I know what moar version is installed? 16:21
timotimo moar --version
m: say $*VM.version
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«v2016.2.8.ga.329.e.2.d␤»
Skarsnik Oh yeah moar --version
timotimo m: say $*VM.perl
AlexDaniel timotimo: ok 13-15 links to rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=127500
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 16:22
AlexDaniel timotimo: which kinda explains it
timotimo ah, ugh
AlexDaniel and 68-70 is about the same issue
timotimo OK, thank you for looking!
AlexDaniel timotimo: well, I am the one who marked those as todo… :) 16:23
Skarsnik hm, that's weird 1042.226562 Mb /opt/bin/moar how the hell this script take 1GB already
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timotimo uh oh :) 16:24
Skarsnik If it's stay like that it's alright, but it should be more like < 100Mb xD 16:25
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timotimo yeah, we hardly ever stay under 100 megabytes for complicated scripts ;( 16:32
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timotimo we've got many optimization opportunities ahead of us 16:33
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brrt another question.... 16:35
is it possible to make 'prove' really, really, really quiet
or otherwise, to redirect the stdout/stderr of perl5 system() to /dev/null 16:36
nine You can close STDOUT and STDERR before calling system() or use shell redirection in your system() command 16:37
Skarsnik Oh it's growing 16:38
It look like I get back the leak jnthn fixed
Yep, it's leaking again 16:40
hoelzro re-opening STDOUT/STDERR to /dev/null is recommended; if you close them, an open in the child program could end up with descriptor 1 or 2, and your child program could mess up its output if it tries writing diagnostic messages to STDERR 16:43
Skarsnik gist.github.com/Skarsnik/03b970d2a4b827ba1e1d
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Skarsnik timotimo, should I repport this or something? 16:44
vendethiel brrt: just 2>/dev/null when calling the commend? 16:46
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ugexe is there much of a difference between acting on Supply.act vs Channel inside a start { }? other than the all the helpers Supply provides 16:55
timotimo Skarsnik: dunno; can you find out if it's coming from the savecapture thingie? 16:58
Skarsnik hm, I don't really have time to look at that precisly 17:00
I can look at moar commit maybe?
skids ugexe: Supply blocks on emit, Channel does not block on send.
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skids ugexe: also, Channel only hits one of its multiple receivers for each event. 17:03
ugexe doesn't .act do that for Supply?
Skarsnik How do I find what version/date is ga329e2d in Moar
ugexe oh i see what you mean 17:04
hoelzro Skarsnik: Wed Mar 2 18:20:32 2016 +0100
(via git-show)
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Skarsnik ok thx 17:08
hm, must be a change in rakudo or nqp then? 17:09
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jnthn ugexe: The big difference between supplies and channels is that with supplies, your .act runs on whatever thread does the emit, whereas with channels there's an actual queue there and sending a value does nothing more than putting it into the queue. 17:28
ugexe: So, rather different computation models. 17:29
ugexe ah i see!
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mst jnthn: have we gone over the 'go channels are bad and you should feel bad' article and checked that ours don't have any of those problems? 17:37
might make a nice blog post actually comparing and constrasting
ugexe is trying to find hacky ways to use data from a handle (IO::Socket::INET for instance) in another thread
mst if somebody tried to write said thing up would you be willing to try and review it?
vendethiel mst: that article itself is ... pretty bad, tbh :v 17:40
mst vendethiel: oh? from what I've read elsewhere the criticisms are all at least somewhat valid
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vendethiel from what I've seen, it's "they're bad when misused" 17:43
mst right, but things like the panicking seems to make it quite easy to misuse them 17:45
also, this is the channel for a perl language, making things DWIM when you do the obvious thing as opposed to telling people "the obvious thing is wrong, you should've read the documentation and managed to guess <completely different thing>" is kinda part of the schtick, no? 17:46
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vendethiel mst: yeah, I've never liked the panic model in go anyway (I don't like go much at all, to be fair, so I guess that's expected, but for simple uses, go channels work well enough) 17:50
mst it seems to me that channels are meant to be "I need to pass stuff around and am probably not CPU bound on the passing stuff around so whatever" 17:51
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skids Perl 6 Channels are not like Go channels. jnthn actually mentioned once wondering whether they should be renamed to avoid confusion. 18:05
For example they already buffer infinitely, and are not syncronization mechanisms between sender/receiver as they do not block on send. 18:06
(There is still a problem shutting them down, but we can get runaway senders rather than leaked receiver loops. And the base class can be built upon to fix that.) 18:08
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RabidGravy jnthn, you know the change you made to the generation of attribute accessors, it appears that the generate_accessor whilst actually making the rw accessors right, doesn't actually set the rw flag 18:22
so a leetle hack I have in Staticish don't work no more
mst skids: go channels don't *have* to block on send 18:23
skids: infinite buffers are bad though, eventually you need backpressure or to load shedding
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stmuk GPW schedule ist complete! 19:19
timotimo awesome 19:20
lizmat stmuk: thanks for the Durham tip
yoleaux 13:34Z <llfourn> lizmat: another possible bug: say :($a) ~~ :($a is rw) # returns True but it should be False IMO, is rw is narrower
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stmuk lizmat: you visited? 19:21
lizmat yeah, we only had 2 hours before having to make it back to the ferry 19:22
and lost half an hour looking for a parking space
but we walked from the train station to the cathedral, had some tea on the green, and then back to the station again
stmuk its beautiful .. I spent some time at university there
lizmat the weather didn't cooperate much (at some point it hailed) 19:23
but it was nice enough for us to put it on the list of places to revisit at a later time :-)
stmuk :)
lizmat but not early on a Saturday afternoon :) 19:24
stmuk the driving is awful ..
lizmat well, we were at a disadvantage driving a van that was too high for any of the parking garages in the center 19:25
dalek osystem: b600659 | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
Update META -> META6.json for Staticish
stmuk the castle is part of the university and it's possible to stay there cheaply and that includes parking in front of the cathedral 19:26
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timotimo there's no way for a num or str to ever not be p6definite, right? 19:26
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timotimo m: use nqp; my str $a; say nqp::p6definite($a) 19:26
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«True␤» 19:27
timotimo hm, do we have a clue why camelia's reacting so slow?
m: use nqp; my num $a; say nqp::p6definite($a)
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«True␤»
RabidGravy another sunday another module needs fixing
lizmat m: use nqp; my str $a; say nqp::isnull_s($a) 19:30
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
lizmat what?
m: use nqp; my str $a; say nqp::isnull_s($a)
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«0␤» 19:31
lizmat perhaps some rogue processes are eating all of camelia's CPU in thatb VM ?
fwiw, I sorta expected that to return 1 19:32
timotimo hm, doesnt need decont, does it? 19:33
lizmat doesn't make a difference, so I would gather it doesn't 19:34
timotimo i just patched Perl6/Optimizer.nqp to not emit an "if p6definite($foo) { $foo } else { &operator() }" for += and friends
er
only for native variables, of course
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AlexDaniel lizmat: yeah. camelia is misbehaving lately 19:41
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timotimo nine: can you have a quick look at some monitoring or something to see what could be wrong? 19:42
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dalek kudo/nom: 25eef56 | timotimo++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp:
don't need to check native vars for definite in metaop_assign opt
 19:51
lizmat Weeee! a commit by someone other than me! wheeee :-)
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timotimo sorry about that, liz .. i've had ideas in the recent days, but nothing materialized into code 19:52
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lizmat I just get depressed if I do a git pull and all it says is "already up to date" :-( 19:52
timotimo understandable 19:53
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sortiz Skarsnik++ # mysql availability test. 19:58
dalek Iish: 98279dc | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | / (2 files):
mysql: Blob columns returns Buf not Blob.

Test for return type and NULL.		 20:00
Iish: 3cad692 | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | t/26-mysql-blob.t:
Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/DBIish
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lizmat timotimo: and then I won't be able to make it to the GPW this year and see all of the P6 crew :-( 20:02
timotimo :( 20:04
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jnthn lizmat: I won't be there either, fwiw 20:10
sortiz
.oO( It will be time to ask for commit bit in rakudo? )
jnthn RabidGravy: The "not marked is rw" thing sounds worth fixing; could you RT it so I don't forget? :)
Will add a test too :)
RabidGravy okay 20:11
jnthn mst: Would certainly be able to read/comment on such a post.
(Also need to read that blog post you linked properly, rather than just skimming it :)) 20:12
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Skarsnik jnthn, I don't know if you saw this gist.github.com/Skarsnik/03b970d2a4b827ba1e1d the last output is with a today rakudo, the first is when you patched arg.c in more to fix a leak 20:12
jnthn Skarsnik: Curious, and exact same program being run? 20:14
Skarsnik Yes
jnthn Wonder what's to thank for that... It's a much slower leak than the last one at least
Skarsnik The modules involved did not get any change too
jnthn OK. Valgrind output would be useful again. 20:15
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jnthn There's been very few patches in Moar in the meantime...odd. 20:16
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RabidGravy jnthn, rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=127665 20:19
jnthn RabidGravy: Thanks! :)
RabidGravy y'see it turns out my modules are better than roast for determining compatibility issues 20:22
I find one every week ;-) 20:23
jnthn Over time we'll transcribe much that into roast, I hope :)
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jnthn Hopefully by us doing converage analysis and spotting gaps proactively, rather than just by continually busting your modules :) 20:24
*coverage
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skids mst: yeah backpressure and an eventual failure mode is definitely needed, and the mechanism for that needs both time and queue depth components, and shouldn't happen per-value-passed so it isn't itself a force multiplier. Lessons learned from networking :-). 20:26
mst skids: yep
skids: I quite like erlang's approach where the more full a process' mailbox, the more reductions you're charged for sending to it 20:27
seems like an elegant way to propagate backpressure across the system from overloaded components
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Skarsnik and I don't have scrolling in screen, annoying 20:30
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skids Unfortunately the majority of the very clever solutions to queueing problems developed for networking rely on the fact that the network is allowed to drop packets. Stochasctic fair queueing wouldn't go over well internally in a program :-). 20:33
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Skarsnik damn it barely leak in valgrind lol 20:35
jnthn, I added valgring output in gist.github.com/Skarsnik/03b970d2a4b827ba1e1d 20:36
jnthn Yowser, something's going rotten in cleanup up at the top there too...but that looks familiar, I thought I'd fixed that... 20:38
Skarsnik: Anyways, thanks...will dig thorugh that some more in the next couple of days 20:39
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Skarsnik I wqs like, yay, no more leak, I can run this bot on this server, after a while it was taking 1Gb of memory... not fun x) 20:42
jnthn scribbled a blog post about what he got up to in the last week or so... 6guts.wordpress.com/2016/03/06/dig...lity-work/ 20:45
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lizmat jnthn++ 20:48
argh, dalek awol ? 20:51
I've just committed 978754607176392f68 20:52
"Make :($a) ~~ :($a is rw) return False"
jnthn: ^^^ was that the one you were going to look at ?
nine timotimo: several rakudo builds were running in parallel eating all memory 20:53
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jnthn lizmat: Hm, yeah, I'd expect if anything :($a is rw) ~~ :($a) might be true in so far as rw is a constraint 20:55
But not the other way around
lizmat ok, well that's fixed now :-)
jnthn lizmat++
lizmat I'll be looking at Signature.ACCEPTS again tomorro 20:56
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lizmat jnthn: "The patch doing so it’s quite " isn't ??? 20:58
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lizmat m: dd :(42) ~~ :(666) # jnthn, do you agree that this is a bug ? 21:00
camelia rakudo-moar 0ad8b3: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
Skarsnik great openssl that crash again >< 21:03
moritz jnthn: "The patch doing so it’s quite ready for prime-time yet" you probably meant *isn't* quite ready for prime time? 21:04
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moritz also, jnthn++ 21:05
RabidGravy yeah nice
jnthn++
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autarch jnthn: those performance improvements are very exciting! 21:16
jnthn lizmat: Fixed, thanks 21:17
moritz: Thanks for pointing out also :)
lizmat: Yeah, :(42) ~~ :(666) should certainly be False
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autarch jnthn: I have a module that performs abysmally for no reason I can figure out - it might be a good thing to look at for perf improvements - github.com/perl6/Pod-To-HTML/tree/...treewalker - github.com/autarch/perl6-Pod-TreeWalker 21:19
lizmat jnthn: ok, so how do I handle spectests that implicitely relay on that?
jnthn: actually, the problem is more like:
autarch and the associated Pod-To-HTML branch which uses that module is also very slow - github.com/perl6/Pod-To-HTML/tree/...treewalker
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lizmat m: dd :($a where * == 42) ~~ :($a where * == 42) # we can't see inside the WhateverCode, so we can only assume mismatch 21:20
camelia rakudo-moar 978754: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
lizmat *rely
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ugexe Skarsnik: maybe set up a local SSL MITM proxy to log whats happening :( 21:26
jnthn autarch: Yes, real examples of slow stuff is useful. Will put those on my list of things to analyze; thanks! 21:27
lizmat: Errata I guess... :)
moritz does it make sense to return a tri-state thingy? 21:29
True if we know it's a match, False if we know it's not, and Bool if we know that we don't know?
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lizmat and how would that affect MMD / role composition ? 21:30
only True will break role composition, no ?
jnthn moritz: That won't work out so well for smart-matching I guess...
moritz do we even consider signatures for role composition?
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moritz jnthn: right 21:30
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jnthn lizmat: I guess we'll just have to see what the actual fallout is... 21:31
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lizmat okidoki 21:31
jnthn lizmat: Was the best you uncovered actually about roles? 21:32
lizmat: I did write various tests for role composition and sigatures
moritz: Yeah, we do these days...was fairly late-breaking...
(As in, not long before 6.c)
lizmat jnthn: yeah, t/spec/S06-signature/introspection.t tests 118-121
jnthn That's not about roles though? 21:33
lizmat it's about signatures and is-perl-idempotent 21:34
and that uses eqv 21:35
and it's Parameter eqv Parameter that I fixed so that it won't match
m: dd :(42) eqv :(666) 21:36
camelia rakudo-moar 978754: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
lizmat m: dd :(42) ~~ :(666)
camelia rakudo-moar 978754: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
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lizmat m: dd :(42) eqv :(42) 21:37
camelia rakudo-moar 978754: OUTPUT«Bool::True␤»
lizmat that works, because we don't internally always make that a Callable
m: dd :(42).params[0]
camelia rakudo-moar 978754: OUTPUT«Int $ where { ... }␤»
lizmat hmmm....ah, yes, Parameter.perl is still stupid 21:38
jnthn lizmat: Yeah...I note that the tests for default values have been written sensitive to this
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lizmat anyway, I think the tests on lines 211-214 are highly suspect 21:40
jnthn I'd agree
Time for me to rest, I think 21:41
'night o/
lizmat gnight, jnthn
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timotimo gnite jnthn :) 21:47
RabidGravy toodles 21:48
timotimo tu tu ru
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timotimo what on earth 22:02
can someone try a perl6 --output=optimize foobar.p6 | less
and not scroll to the bottom
and tell me what happens to their cpu usage?
lizmat any foobar will do ? 22:03
$ perl6 --output=optimize -e '' 22:04
Use of Nil in string context
?
moritz I guess it needs to produce some output
otherwise scrolling or not doesn't make much sense
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moritz timotimo: no specialties in CPU usage here 22:05
$ echo 'say slurp "README.md"' > foobar.p6
$ ./perl6-m --output=optimize foobar.p6 |less
perl6-m simply exits, less buffers its output. All is as I'd expect. 22:06
sleep time here&
lizmat good night, moritz 22:07
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rudi_s Hi. Can I somehow access the variable name which was used to call a function? So a call like foo($x); yields '$x' inside foo. 22:12
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sjn rudi_s: could you describe the problem you're trying to solve, that lead to this question? 22:18
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rudi_s sjn: I'm thinking about a DSL-like language which allows the setting of certain variables. And I thought it would be nice if something like my $a = 'foo'; my $b = 'bar'; result $a, $b; would work and result could figure out, that $a and $b were set. 22:20
I know I could use a hash, or not perl and instead write my own parser and so own. - But I liked the idea and was curious if it's possible. 22:21
geekosaur timotimo/moritz, presumably you need it to produce more than PIPE_BUF amount of output 22:22
timotimo moritz: is say slurp readme.md more than a page ful? 22:25
sjn rudi_s: sounds like you're looking for making a grammar and then some actions that do the right thing with "result $a, $b;"
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timotimo because when i do that, i get a single cpu full of usage 22:25
100% kernel according to htop
well, not 100%, but nearly so
rudi_s sjn: When I said DSl-like language I meant perl6 with "nice" operators and the like to still be able to use the full power of perl6 if I want to. 22:26
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sjn so you want to extend Perl6 itself? 22:27
rudi_s sjn: Yes.
timotimo m: sub test(\foo) { say foo.VAR.name }; my $hello; my $rudi; test($hello); test($rudi); 22:28
camelia rakudo-moar 978754: OUTPUT«$hello␤$rudi␤»
timotimo rudi_s: this is what the dd sub does, too
rudi_s timotimo: Wow, awesome. - Thank you! Perl6 is really crazy. - Still not sure if this is a good idea but I like that it can be done. 22:29
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rudi_s timotimo: Can this be combined with "slurpy" arguments? So I could get all passed variables in test($hello, $rudi)? 22:30
lizmat rudi_s: only with nqp trickery
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John[Lisbeth] What is perl 5 from the perspective of perl 6 users? 22:31
sjn hi John[Lisbeth] :)
rudi_s Hm, that's too bad.
sjn John[Lisbeth]: they're friends and family :D
John[Lisbeth] I was talking to the guys in perl 5 and basically they said perl 6 was a different and seperate langauge than perl, but then I saw couple of talks by Larry Wall and he seems to be behind perl 6 22:32
I guess I don't know the difference besides a cleaned up syntax and cleaned up type system
sjn yes, it is, and yes he is
timotimo i've never done any perl5, so i only know the parts it does worse than p6 22:33
so obviously i don't like it
sjn there are a LOT of differences. in fact, Perl 6 isn't based on Perl 5 at all (no common code), but somewhat inspired by the good bits
timotimo :P
John[Lisbeth] can you use perl 5 code in your perl 6 scripts though objects or something?
sjn we'd like to think the bad bits in perl5 have been significantly improved :D
timotimo yes, you can 22:34
sjn John[Lisbeth]: use Inline::Perl5;
timotimo Inline::Perl5 for that direction and Inline::Perl6 for the other direction exist and work well
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John[Lisbeth] Can I get perl 6 from my ubuntu repos? 22:34
timotimo yes, but you'll get a ridiculously outdated version
John[Lisbeth] it's stable aint it?
sjn much better to follow instructions on perl6.org
timotimo it's pre-alpha, the one you'll get
John[Lisbeth] Maybe there's a ppa 22:35
timotimo it'll be lacking many features, and have many bugs, and also be very slow and use a lot more memory than it would if you got it from perl6.org or somewhere else
sjn John[Lisbeth]: the one you get from following the instructions on perl6.org is up-to-date and stable
John[Lisbeth] All I care is to get the most recent stable version of perl 6 22:36
timotimo then you can use what perl6.org recommends. rakudo star tarball, or a docker image, for example
John[Lisbeth] But muh sudo apt-get update && sudo apt-get ugprade
sjn would love that too 22:37
lizmat m: dd :(&foo:(--> Bool)).params[0] # timotimo: seems wrong to have a post-constraint here?
camelia rakudo-moar 978754: OUTPUT«Parameter &foo = &foo where { ... }␤»
sjn maybe drop by the Ubuntu irc channel and ask for it too? :)
John[Lisbeth] I am sure I can find it on the google machine
timotimo uh, no clue about that stuff :S
22:38 _nadim left
sjn package info for ubuntu's rakudo package says the maintainer is Ubuntu Developers [email@hidden.address] 22:38
and Original-Maintainer: Debian Rakudo Maintainers [email@hidden.address]
lizmat .tell jnthn dd :(&foo:(--> Bool)).params[0] # seems wrong to have a post-constraint here?
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
John[Lisbeth] I basically have been studying functional programming for 2 years 22:42
timotimo dinner! \o/
John[Lisbeth] I saw an old video about unix programming and how you can use pipelines to string little programs together making one big process that data flows through to solve a problem
timotimo lizmat: maybe that's how we implement subsignatures? :( 22:43
John[Lisbeth] foo | bar | baz turned out to be simliar to baz (bar (foo)) in lisp and that took me a couple years to find out
and now I suppose I am looing for a language that can do what lisp can do with recursion but that can also do other things too. 22:44
sjn Lisp is really nice, but if you'd like something more multi-paradigm, you can't do much better than Perl 6 atm 22:46
Perl 6 has some really nice functional programming features, plus lots of other neat stuff which you can make use of as you want/need 22:48
John[Lisbeth] can you program lazily?
or work with inifnite lists?
sjn yep
yep 22:49
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John[Lisbeth] ok then it pretty much satisfies my need. I have an o'rielly book about awk and sed, and then an o'rielly book about bash, and then I'm gonna take on perl 6 22:49
sjn afaic, the canonical example is Perl6's super-short implementation of the fibionacci sequence
my @fib := 1, 1, *+* ... *; 22:50
lizmat timotimo: oddly enough, there's a separate sub_signature attribute in Parameter
ok, I have no inspiration anymore, so I bid you all a good night!
sjn m: my @fib := 1, 1, *+* ... *; say @fib[20];
camelia rakudo-moar 978754: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding; expected Positional but got Seq (?)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/2sRDvXc48M line 1␤␤»
sjn oh noes! 22:51
lizmat m: my @fib = 1, 1, *+* ... *; say @fib[20];
camelia rakudo-moar 978754: OUTPUT«10946␤»
lizmat sjn: GLR took care of the need for binding
sjn aah
lizmat although admittedly, the error is LTA 22:52
sjn ok, so there are some examples out there that need updating
lizmat very likely :-)
sleep&
sjn nn!
John[Lisbeth]: check out perl6intro.com for a soft introduction (there are more learning resources on perl6.org, so you may want to use that as a starting point for your explorations :) 22:53
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timotimo sjn: how do you program lazily in perl6? 23:20
i'm a bit saddened that i get so much METAOP_ASSIGN in my code ... 23:26
sjn usually lies in bed when programming lazily :) 23:27
timotimo it's understandable that it wouldn't turn it into the resulting code already in the optimizer, because it kind of doesn't know if it'd turn into a list thing or not, so it refuses to do stuff, as it doesn't know how to handle @ or % sigiled vars either
23:27 kjs_ left
timotimo sjn: i just mean compared to haskell, perl6 doesn't offer "lazy programming" 23:28
sjn ah, sure.
although the comparison was more with Lisp
timotimo what does lisp offer in terms of lazy programming? 23:29
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sjn isn't infinite lists a feature of that? 23:30
sjn googles, and is reminded that it's called "lazy evaluation" 23:31
timotimo that's more like "we have iterators" + "our lists don't have to be created by exhausting an iterator"
sjn but no, I'm guessing type inference isn't (yet?) a haskell-feature Perl 6 has yet... 23:32
and that's a "lazy programming" feature, iirc 23:33
timotimo no, we don't do type inference
i'm not sure that counts as "lazy programming" 23:34
but i may have no idea what you mean by that
i was focusing on lazy evaluation
sjn type inference = "dear compiler: here are the bits and pieces, you figure out what order to run it in" or someting like that :) 23:35
seems pretty lazy to me :D
timotimo in haskell it's more like "you better have thought this out up front, dear developer. because if your shit doesn't work right 100%, you'll get an error" 23:36
that's more a "careful programming" feature
sjn sounds like the type of lazy you find in the Perl communty (cf. "laziness, hubris and impatience" :) 23:37
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timotimo m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; @a ,= 2, 3; say @a.perl 23:40
camelia rakudo-moar 978754: OUTPUT«(my \Array_78888720 = [Array_78888720, (2, 3)])␤»
timotimo i don't think that's useful :D 23:41
but what do i know
i think it's actually a bug
sjn hm
wouldn't you use unshift for that?
timotimo well, yeah, but this is about optimizing METAOP_ASSIGN in more cases 23:42
sjn ah
timotimo currently it bails out when it can't tell it doesn't get a regular scalar variable
i *think* we used to have something to ensure metaop-assign with list-assignment stuff DTRT
23:45 idiosyncrat_ joined
timotimo i mean ... i guess i can kick out that check and see what the spec tests think 23:46
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