»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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timotimo MadcapJake: a bunch of the things sdl2 offers aren't actually bound :) 00:06
and there's not yet a high-level API built on top of it that'd let you use sdl2 with objects and such 00:07
did you look in the examples/ where there's code that uses cairo in addition to sdl2? :)
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dalek osystem: bb2ed8c | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list:
Add GlotIO to ecosystem

Use glot.io API: pastebin allowing execution of code: github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-GlotIO		 00:10
MadcapJake I've never used either library :P so I'll have to run through the examples (and some SDL2 tutorials)
timotimo 'k 00:11
have you used allegro and glfw, though?
MadcapJake nope! I've just read their tutorials and wrote a few basic bindings
timotimo OK
MadcapJake the closest thing I've done to game programming is pygame like 2 years ago :P
ZoffixLappy So, with P6 being available on glot.io, we can probably use its API to make a "try it now in browser" box on perl6.org, eh?
timotimo yeah, the thing about pygame is that it's blit-oriented 00:12
like, you're using the screen as a buffer of pixels that you copy pixel data into 00:13
MadcapJake how does SDL2 do it?
timotimo sdl2's "renderer" thing is much more 3d-graphics-acceleration-like
in fact, it's implemented on top of opengl and direct3d
AlexDaniel ZoffixLappy: or perhaps wait a little for js backend?
timotimo AlexDaniel: "a little" is quite optimistic
after nqp is fully ported to JS, there's still a ways to go until rakudo is fully functional as well 00:14
ZoffixLappy AlexDaniel, I'm unsure how much that's applicable. Wouldn't that just result in the "try now" box being restricted to just what the browser can do rather than running code the average Perl 6 user might end up running locally? 00:16
ZoffixLappy is still isn't too clear on what the JS backend is all about... 00:17
AlexDaniel ¯\(°_o)/¯
ZoffixLappy: anyway, what is glot.io? I mean, like, what's the idea behind it? 00:18
ZoffixLappy well, not "all about", but what exactly allows one to do and how does it go about manipulating DOM
AlexDaniel, a pastebin that lets you *execute* pasted code in 29 different languages. Ulti++ recently managed to get Perl 6 added to the list. 00:19
AlexDaniel ZoffixLappy: well, that's not what I meant
ZoffixLappy: my ad blocker says that almost nothing is blocked, where are the ads?
ZoffixLappy: what is preventing it to become another pastebin.com tomorrow? 00:20
after all, there is also ideone.com/, which also supports perl 6 00:21
ZoffixLappy AlexDaniel, don't know about ads, but I was planning to utilize their API to power the "try now" box. 00:22
AlexDaniel I mean, we can even sorta hook camelia to web interface and that's it 00:23
ZoffixLappy I was thinking of that, but I hit a snag: there's no way to know which response matches which request. 00:24
Unless you have a dozen of IRC clients running, each handling a single request, which is a bit silly.
AlexDaniel I agree that “try it now” thingy right in the browser is great, but we can also just link to glot.io, ideone.com and whatever else supports perl 6
ZoffixLappy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I was just thinking aloud. 00:25
I think I'm still too burnt out to do web work anyway ^_^
AlexDaniel ZoffixLappy: another way to do it is to have an IRC client that will open private chat with camelia by default :)
this way we will also get some people to hang out here, perhaps :) 00:26
but yeah, I'm just thinking aloud to your thinking aloud
ZoffixLappy :)
timotimo gnite perlfriends 00:27
ZoffixLappy night 00:28
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skink timotimo, Got it working again! 00:32
Well, ish 00:33
ZoffixLappy skink++
skink Honestly the way this is set up is really bizarre and overdone. There's redundant bindings to the same symbols and completely unnecessary class use. 00:36
I can probably do a clean re-write rather quickly, but it'd mean an API change 00:37
Why does he have 290 tests??? 00:40
ZoffixLappy, Would it be okay to re-write this module, considering its age / lack of maintenance? 00:43
I don't think an API change would really affect anyone, considering it seems to be broken :) 00:44
ZoffixLappy skink, sure.
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[Coke] yawns. 00:53
ZoffixLappy chugs another beer 00:55
I'm almost getting interested in hockey, sitting at this bar :P
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teatime tries to remember if he has easy ACM digital library access currently 01:01
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geekosaur gets interested in hockey... until the commercials at every little stop in play. pfeh 01:14
skink > my $hash = bcrypt_hash("password");
$2a$12$1FjzCVKIfaFywBKQvRwOj.2LqoKtjpEj/EyovoHyQde3hrH70Zx1C
> bcrypt_compare("password", $hash);
True
ZoffixLappy, :)
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skink Have also confirmed it's compatible with Python's bcrypt 01:15
ZoffixLappy Neat. Did you name those subs? Why not the Perl-6-patented kebab-case?
skink I just took his original names and s/Crypt::Bcrypt./bcrypt_/
bcrypt-hash-pw and -same-pw seem reasonable to you? 01:17
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ZoffixLappy What's "-pw"? 01:18
skink password 01:19
Maybe -password-hash and -password-check?
or just -hash and -check 01:20
ZoffixLappy I wouldn't have neither -pw nor -password in it. Just bcrypt-hash / bcrypt-compare
skink -compare or -check? "If check returns true" sounds logical in my head 01:21
For its typical use case 01:22
ZoffixLappy Yeah, better than -compare.
-match maybe worth considering too 01:23
ZoffixLappy may be too drunk to offer good ideas :)
skink I like -match
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teatime is there perhaps a doc that describes: if you want to clone {rakudo, moar, nqp, roast} separately, where to put them in relation to each other / how to point them at each other, and/or how to execute roast, etc. basically, 'default/typical dev environment' 01:30
ZoffixLappy m: my $x = 1; sub foo ( Hash $foo ) {say $foo }; foo { bar => { |( $x ?? foo => 'ber' !! Empty) } }
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«{bar => -> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|84588672) ... }}␤»
ZoffixLappy I'm having trouble again with putting in optional args. I want `bar` to be an empty hash if $x is false and to be foo => 'ber' if $x is true 01:31
skink :o I think my last push to Crypt::Random broke it 01:32
>read bytes requires an object with REPR MVMOSHandle
ZoffixLappy Wasn't it the error shown when I tried to install it originally?
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skink That was for Bcrypt 01:33
ZoffixLappy m: my $x = 1; sub foo ( Hash $foo ) {say $foo }; foo { bar => %( |( foo => 'ber' if $x )) }
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«{bar => {foo => ber}}␤»
ZoffixLappy m: my $x = 0; sub foo ( Hash $foo ) {say $foo }; foo { bar => %( |( foo => 'ber' if $x )) }
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«{bar => {}}␤» 01:34
skink My Random module now also has it, after I actually adapted something from Bcrypt
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ZoffixLappy Sounds like you have the opportunity to fix two modules :P 01:34
skink github.com/skinkade/crypt-random/c...29ff91138c 01:36
MadcapJake teatime: the INSTALL.txt file in each of their repos 01:37
ZoffixLappy Try changing BEGIN to INIT?
MadcapJake teatime: rakudo will generate moar and nqp for you too
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teatime yeah. and that will work at least for now. 01:40
skink Alright, I give, how do I _un_install a module with panda? 01:42
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teatime can I stick --gen-moar --gen-nqp --backends=moar into config.default, btw? 01:43
ZoffixLappy You don't? :)
panda isn't a package manager. But this question came up many times with cpan in Perl 5... Perhaps, it should be considered to add a feature to do that to panda. 01:44
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Herby_ percocet and programming 01:45
i cant tell if its a terrible or great combination
skink Alright I've made sure 'panda install Crypt::Random' works completely now 01:46
teatime MadcapJake: and you're I overlooked it in INSTALL.txt
lucs Reading 'p6doc DBIish', it mentions "See also README.pod for more documentation." 01:47
How do I find that README?
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ZoffixLappy skink++ 01:47
lucs, scroll down on modules.perl6.org/repo/DBIish
Herby_, why do you have percs? 01:48
lucs ZoffixLappy: I get that, but did a copy of README.pod get installed on my machine with the module?
ZoffixLappy Oh, no idea. 01:49
lucs :(
ZoffixLappy Internet. Web. Use it! :D
lucs Also, I'd like to read the code that got installed, but precomp'ed files make it hard -- or is there some way I'm missing? 01:50
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Herby_ ZoffixLappy: was sick as a dog all week, went to the ED today and they gave me a few 01:50
now I'm feeling pretty good. Hopefully the mysteries of coding will be unveiled to my eyes now! 01:51
lucs ZoffixLappy: So I need to be connected to the internet to play this game? :)
perlawhirl Zoffix: just reading logs. the thing with ideone is that it's rakudo is ancient... like 2014.
so i wouldn't be pointing people to it :D 01:52
glot.io on the other hand has a recent version, and being an OS project on github means it's easier to push updates to it
ZoffixLappy Herby_, I had some a month ago. Haven't tried coding while on them though lol :) 01:53
Herby_ you need to give it a shot next time!
well, hopefully you dont need them but if you do! 01:54
ZoffixLappy lol, yeah, considering how shitty I felt at the time, I really hope there is no "next time" :) 01:56
lucs, you mean... there are times when you are NOT connected to the Internet? :)
lucs ZoffixLappy: Nah, but I'd really like to be able to look at the stuff that gets installed, not what is supposed to have been installed. 01:57
ZoffixLappy I don't think README.pod gets installed. As for the plain-code of modules. They're likely are present somewhere non-precompiled, but I'm unsure of where. 01:59
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lucs ZoffixLappy: I see some plain code in .../install/share/perl6/site/sources/, but the file names are hashes :/ 02:01
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MadcapJake lucs: perl6 -e '$*REPO.repo-chain.say' will show you all the repos and their locations 02:01
lucs MadcapJake: Thanks, I'll take a look. 02:02
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MadcapJake perl6 uses a nifty filesystem database that makes it a little difficult to find the source code. If you decide you want to create a clone of something to install, you are supposed to be able to change the auth/ver/api, then `panda install .` and it will install your version as a separate distribution. You'll just need to use your modified auth/ver/api to 02:05
get access to it.
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ZoffixLappy m: my $h = '<foo>; rel="next", <bar>; rel="last"'; say $h ~~ /g: '<'(.+?)'>;'\s+'rel="'(.+?)\"/ 02:08
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
ZoffixLappy I'm trying to get a hash with next => 'foo', last => 'bar' from this
skink github.com/carbin/p6-Crypt-Bcrypt/...ade:master 02:09
>43 additions and 356 deletions.
:D
ZoffixLappy Screw it. Too drunk. 02:10
Herby_ no such thing!
ZoffixLappy m: my %h; for '<foo>; rel="next", <bar>; rel="last"' ~~ m:g/ '<'(.+?)'>;'\s+'rel="'(.+?)\" / -> $m { %h{$m[1]} = $m[0] }; say %h 02:12
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«{last => ｢bar｣, next => ｢foo｣}␤»
lucs Not drunk enough!
ZoffixLappy Seems to work, although the quotes around bar and foo look weird on my lappy. they show up as squares with FF62/FF63 in them
.u ｢ 02:13
yoleaux U+FF62 HALFWIDTH LEFT CORNER BRACKET [Ps] (｢)
ZoffixLappy Ah
skink proceeds to close nearly 20 windows 02:14
lucs MadcapJake: In Perl 5, it's easy to read (and maybe modify) the source of an installed module, to see how it works. 02:15
I have no idea how to do this in Perl 6.
Well, I can alway go read the github code, but modifications, dunno. 02:16
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ZoffixLappy Fetch a local copy of GitHub module and load it? 02:16
s/of/from/
lucs ZoffixLappy: I can have it run in my local Perl 6 environment? 02:17
ZoffixLappy Sure, just add -Ipath/to/it
lucs Oh, right.
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lucs It feels a bit weird to need to have the whole thing in double, but I guess that can work. 02:18
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skink I'll need someone's help in setting up the build process for crypt_blowfish.dll and testing on Windows 02:19
Not tonight though
ZoffixLappy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ another way to look at it is it's weird to be able to modify already-installed modules anyway you want to :P 02:20
lucs ZoffixLappy: I'm alway a bit afraid of running into the I'm-looking-for-my-keys-here-because-there-is-light-here-even-though-I-lost-them-over-there :) 02:22
ZoffixLappy :D
Yikes. With tip, $100 bar bill. 02:24
An indicator of how drunk I am right now.. and I still have my last pint full :P
lucs Santé! :)
ZoffixLappy "Health"? 02:25
Ah, "Cheers"
"Internal error: invalid thread ID 241251728 in GC work pass" 02:29
:o 02:30
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sortiz \o #perl6 02:48
skink Hey sortiz 02:51
Semi-related to DBIish, I'm re-writing the Bcrypt module for password storage 02:52
sortiz skink, your PR for P6-UUID was merged. :-) 02:56
skink mhm
Also Crypt::Random got added this morning
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skink On which Crypt::Bcrypt will now depend for salts 02:56
sortiz Nice! 02:57
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skink The UUID thing was entirely skids though 03:00
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sortiz Yep, is a good example of collaboration. 03:03
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sortiz And what the relation with DBIish is? 03:03
skink People store passwords in DBs :) 03:04
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sortiz Yep, not always in a safe way, but yes. ;-) 03:05
skink Well I made it so it's simply bcrypt-hash($password) so people do do it in a safe way. 03:11
sortiz That returns a Buf? 03:12
skink Str 03:13
sortiz Ok, I need to see the module. :-) 03:14
skink The C library itself returns char* so original author logically did Str 03:16
bcrypt-hash(Str $password, int $rounds = 12) returns Str
bcrypt-match(Str $password, Str $hash) returns Bool
That's all that's exported 03:17
Hard to mess it up :) 03:18
sortiz Ok, I'm unaware of that API, seems is similar to standard crypt
skink mhm
Those functions call crypt(), in fact 03:19
From crypt_blowfish.{so,dll}
Just with the salt generation abstracted away 03:20
sortiz I see. 03:24
btw I need to see the status of the openssl bindings for perl6, I use it a lot in perl5. 03:28
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skink Looks like not much in the way of features, at least according to the README: socket class, RSA signing, and AES en/decrypt 03:31
Whole buncha sub-modules though, so perhaps the README is just itself incomplete 03:32
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sortiz For the moment I will concentrate on DBIish. 03:42
That has allowed me to know the strengths and weaknesses of perl6's NC 03:43
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skink Hey skids 03:53
skids o/
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sortiz skids++ # UUID stringification 03:56
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skink Hey skids, what's the difference between :256[$buf.values].fmt("%32.32x") and .fmt("%02x") 04:36
I get the same output for both 04:37
skids I'm not familiar with a leading zero in the directive.
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skids Looks like it is in the manpage. They should be equivalent. 04:39
Question is how portable across different libc each is, I guess. 04:41
skink Apparently not, because changing it crypt_random_UUIDv4() breaks it completely :)
skids m: 1.fmt("2.2x").say; 1.fmt("%02x).say 04:42
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/FYEg6UA7XL␤Unable to parse expression in double quotes; couldn't find final '"' ␤at /tmp/FYEg6UA7XL:1␤------> 031.fmt("2.2x").say; 1.fmt("%02x).say7⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤»
skids m: 1.fmt("2.2x").say; 1.fmt("%02x").say 04:43
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Your printf-style directives specify 0 arguments, but 1 argument was supplied␤␤»
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skids m: (1,).fmt("2.2x").say; (1,).fmt("%02x").say 04:43
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Your printf-style directives specify 0 arguments, but 1 argument was supplied␤␤»
skids ergh.
skink %2.2x works though
skids m: (1,).fmt("%2.2x").say; (1,).fmt("%02x").say 04:44
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«01␤01␤»
skids m: (0x7fff,).fmt("%2.2x").say; (0x7fff,).fmt("%02x").say
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«7fff␤7fff␤»
skids try %032x not %02x 04:45
skink Wait, what...
> crypt_random_UUIDv4();
8576a7a7-9714-4b85-9ee6-7d56438b4b76
> do crypt_random_UUIDv4() for 1..10000; say now - INIT now;
Use of Nil in string context
%032x works though 04:47
skids Yeah there are 32 digits, ot 2 :-) 04:48
*not
skink It's almost 1am, all I'm seeing is %x%x%x
skids heheh.
It seems that if the number exceeds the width, it ignores the width. So a UUID that starts with 0 will skip leading 0s with %02x. 04:50
skink Performance difference is negligible with that change so I'll just keep the original
skids m: :256[Buf.new(0..255.pick xx 16).values].base(16).fmt("%032s") for 1..1000; say now - INIT now; # I wonder if that performs better (but will be uppercase) 04:57
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«0.62406691␤»
skink iirc your original was 0.4 for camelia 05:00
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skink skids, You might be able to use the regexp directly to insert the dashes rather than having to call .join() 05:11
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skids Maybe, not sure what that would do I think the reason it is efficient is because Match objects do not create a new string, just store offsets, and do so in low level code. 05:14
skink Hm 05:17
fwiw, with 10,000 iterations, it takes 0.9s for the buffers and ~14-15s for the strings
On my machine 05:18
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dalek Iish: cbaedfd | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | t/03-lib-util.t:
Better test for library detection
 05:28
Iish: 12bb8d6 | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | lib/DBDish/Pg (3 files):
Pg: Use the more robust PQconnectdbParams

No need to quote-and-escape at connect time
  + Add pg-parameter-status and server-version methods
Iish: 46fdc11 | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | / (5 files):
mysql: Deprecate mysql_insertid over insert-id

  + Add $dbh.server-version
  + Version aware datetime test
Iish: 311bf76 | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | lib/DBIish/CommonTesting.pm6:
CommonTesting: Test library and server versions
Iish: 82773f8 | (Salvador Ortiz)++ | lib/DBIish/CommonTesting.pm6:
CommonTesting: Fix a typo in added skip
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Xliff Soo... I just submitted my first PR for rakudo. 06:03
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jdv79 congratulations! 06:04
Xliff github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/739 06:05
Xliff ♥s multis and a sensible operator redifinition scheme. 06:06
jdv79 i was just looking at it. i'm a little skeptical but i don't know anything. 06:07
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jdv79 also, where's the tests?:) 06:08
then again i might wait til i got real feedback on the PR before i put more effort into it. 06:14
good luck with that
Xliff Yeah. I've been holding it. The OO programmer in me thinks that this will eventually be needed. I can come up with one potential real world application for it. 06:15
I have the tests I used when I developed it. Don't know where to put them quite yet. 06:16
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Xliff Hence the submission. I can sit here and try to talk about it, but an official PR seems to be the best way to proceed. 06:16
Thanks for the wishes.
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Xliff Would help if you could put your skepticisms on the PR! =) 06:17
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sortiz .ask moritz With github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/12b...babaa8219d I addressed the last pending issue in DBIish stale branches, may I delete them? 06:46
yoleaux sortiz: I'll pass your message to moritz.
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moritz sortiz: sure 07:14
yoleaux 06:46Z <sortiz> moritz: With github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/12b...babaa8219d I addressed the last pending issue in DBIish stale branches, may I delete them?
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ufobat morning p6 :D 07:34
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emdashcomma don't say p6, i already have a stomach ache 07:40
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ufobat i feel pain about something else :-) 07:43
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grondilu m: say (1 => *, { 1 => $_ } ... 07:48
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/h5rwaYnZV8␤Missing required term after infix␤at /tmp/h5rwaYnZV8:1␤------> 3say (1 => *, { 1 => $_ } ...7⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ prefix␤ term␤»
grondilu m: say (1 => *, { 1 => $_ } ... *)[3].perl
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 0␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/LYzNBCMUyP line 1␤␤»
grondilu m: say (1 => Mu, { 1 => $_ } ... *)[3].perl 07:49
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«1 => 1 => 1 => 1 => Mu␤»
grondilu m: say (1 => Mu, { 1 => $_ } ... *)[3].WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(Pair)␤»
grondilu ^I thought that was failing. My bad. 07:50
grondilu watched a video about implementing Clifford algebras with binary trees (mediacenter.univ-lr.fr/videos/MEDIA...33657.mp4) and wants to give it a shot in Perl 6. He remembers about Pairs being used to do binary trees. 07:52
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dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 44 commits to DBIish/data-sets by salortiz 08:02
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pmurias ZoffixWin: re how does one go about manipulating the DOM on the js backend? it will be possible to call methods on javascript objects 08:27
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masak grondilu: just because pairs can be use to implement binary trees doesn't mean that they're the optimal model for it ;) 08:38
grondilu masak: you'd use an handmade class?
masak grondilu: it annoys me whenever people use the Complex data type to just store a (x, y) tuple of things
if you're not multiplying the numbers, or otherwise using complex number arithmetic, you're basically over-committing on your model 08:39
grondilu well we don't quite have tuples, do we?
m: say (1, 2).WHAT 08:40
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(List)␤»
masak like always putting on a full soldering helmet every time you make pancakes.
m: subset Pos of Positional where .elems == 2 && .all ~~ Int; say [3, 4] ~~ Pos
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«True␤»
masak that's some code from my latest board game.
works surprisingly well 08:41
grondilu oh you can actually write .method there without being in a closure?
m: subset Large of Real where .abs > 1000; say 1e6 ~~ Large; 08:42
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«True␤»
masak jnthn told me you can.
grondilu cool TIL
masak I'm still a bit surprised that's a thunk -- but I can't very well claim that it's *wrong*, just surprising-ish :) 08:43
08:43 jjido left
masak m: subset Foo of Real where say($_ * 2); 5 ~~ Foo 08:45
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«10␤»
masak m: subset Foo of Real where say($_ *= 2); 5 ~~ Foo
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«10␤»
masak m: subset Foo of Real where say($_ *= 2) && .say; 5 ~~ Foo
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«10␤10␤»
masak (don't do that) :) 08:46
grondilu m: subset Foo of Real where $_ = "oops"; say my $ = 7; 08:48
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«7␤»
grondilu m: subset Foo of Real where $_ = "oops"; my $x = 7; say 08:49
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Argument to "say" seems to be malformed␤at /tmp/igR0s7rxfx:1␤------> 3f Real where $_ = "oops"; my $x = 7; say7⏏5<EOL>␤Other potential difficulties:␤ Unsupported use of bare "say"; in Perl 6 please use .say if you mean…»
grondilu m: subset Foo of Real where $_ = "oops"; my $x = 7; say
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Argument to "say" seems to be malformed␤at /tmp/lCvySg9eGM:1␤------> 3f Real where $_ = "oops"; my $x = 7; say7⏏5<EOL>␤Other potential difficulties:␤ Unsupported use of bare "say"; in Perl 6 please use .say if you mean…»
grondilu ahh
m: subset Foo of Real where $_ = "oops"; my $x = 7; say $x
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«7␤»
grondilu m: subset Foo of Real where $_ = "oops"; my $x = 7; say $x ~~ Foo
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«True␤»
grondilu m: subset Foo of Real where $_ = "oops"; my $x = 7; say $x ~~ Foo; say $x
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«True␤7␤»
masak probably an 'is copy' in there somewhere
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grondilu m: say ("foo" but 7) ~~ Int # not sure about this 08:57
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«False␤»
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masak m: say ("foo" but 7).^name 09:09
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Str+{<anon|60316064>}␤»
masak that's why. it's not getting Int nature, really, it's getting {<anon|60316064>} nature.
I for one am fine with that. if you're messing around with `but`, you'll have to accept some compromises. 09:10
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masak or, put differently, the language is not optimized for making the `but` use case 100% consistent :) 09:10
there's probably some decent way to ask the question "did we mix in an Int into this thing?". it just ain't `~~` 09:11
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grondilu ideally it should be "does" in boolean context. 09:19
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grondilu but that's probably too much semantics 09:19
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dysfun hello. is anyone able to point me at the perl5-in-perl6 FFI library please? 09:32
perlawhirl hi perlers 09:34
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perlawhirl dysfun: github.com/niner/Inline-Perl5 09:34
dysfun thank you :)
perlawhirl also... all libs are currently listed at modules.perl6.org 09:35
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Begi hey #perl6 ! I've a newbie question, about the hyper method. What's the batch size ? 10:04
Timbus ummmm i saw Zoffix claim it was.. 64? in his presentation? will have to defer to someone who knows anything about it 10:06
doc.perl6.org/routine/hyper yep, 64 10:07
RabidGravy and the source agrees: "method hyper(Int(Cool) :$batch = 64, Int(Cool) :$degree = 4)" 10:08
timotimo o/ 10:09
RabidGravy yo
timotimo music annoys me 10:10
tadzik :( 10:11
grondilu I have this in a A.pm6 file: 'unit class A; constant $a is export = A.new;' then 'use A;' fails, telling me method 'new' is not found for invocant of class 'A'.
that's just not right, is it?
timotimo well, the class isn't composed yet at that point
grondilu doesn't it at least inherit from Any? 10:12
RabidGravy yes, I'd say that was right
timotimo it'd be pretty terrible if you could invoke method "new" on A at that point and get Any.new even if later in the file there's a "method new" defined 10:13
RabidGravy if you want to do that it would be something like
m: class A { }; constant $a is export = A.new 10:14
camelia ( no output )
RabidGravy one good reason for using the curly version of class
timotimo maybe the class itself wants to be export, too?
10:14 teatime left
grondilu but I'd like to define the constant inside the compunit. 10:14
constant $a is export = END A.new; # maybe? 10:15
timotimo that's exactly what rabidgravy's code does
no, that'll be even worse :)
grondilu yeah, not the correct phaser. 10:16
masak Begi: src/core/Iterable.pm: method hyper(Int(Cool) :$batch = 64, Int(Cool) :$degree = 4) { 10:17
Begi: (found by doing `git grep -w 64 src/core` in the rakudo/ directory)
Begi masak: nice tip !
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grondilu lol, check out this error message: 10:25
===SORRY!===
*
shell returned 1
timotimo a real beauty of a diagnostic message 10:28
masak `*` ?
also... there's a shell happening during compile? 10:29
not by the compiler itself, surely, but by a BEGIN block or something?
timotimo we do shell out in order to precompile, iirc
masak huh. 10:30
is there some reason we have to do that?
arnsholt Yeah, I tried to do it all in a single process, but it broke in subtle ways 10:31
I think something there're some data structures that end up being shared, even when we start up a new compiler
timotimo FWIW, we can fire up a second moar vm interpreter in the same process
masak arnsholt: aha. 10:32
arnsholt: sounds like something we should maybe look into long-term.
timotimo going through the heap analyzer recently taught jnthn and me about all the little spots we're keeping things around in
masak and by "we", I mean competent knowledgeable people, not me :P
timotimo one of the most astounding ones, to me, was the int cache :D
whatever compunit/serialization context is "first" to populate the Int cache will get its Int boxes spread out to all the others :P 10:33
grondilu apparently it's because I began a line with the sequence operator.
masak .oO( "these are all the ints your parents left you as inheritance, Harry" -- "whoaaaa" )
grondilu I thought it was ok to do that.
arnsholt Yeah, the fact that we shell out to do precomp was precisely the reason I wanted to redo it, since invoking the compiler from a program is actually pretty straightforward
Unfortunately precomp had to do tricky things 10:34
timotimo m: ... 99
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«99␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/U2yNFDcajo line 1␤␤»
timotimo that's not the sequence operator
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masak right. 10:34
timotimo that's the yada-yada-yada operator
masak that's a term.
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masak timotimo: no, it's not an operator at all. 10:34
grondilu no I mean '1, 2 \n ... *'
masak timotimo: it's more of a listop.
timotimo well, it's a sub i guess
yeah
masak well, on some level it's a sub. 10:35
timotimo termorator
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masak timotimo: token term:sym<...> { [<sym>|'…'] <args> } 10:36
timotimo just like the world-famous System.out.println operator that's there to print a line to the system's output stream!
masak as I've delved deeper into language design/implementation, I've become a wee bit more sensitive to people calling a non-operator "an operator" 10:37
like, things in parameter lists/signatures
timotimo mhm
m: 1, 2 ␤ ... *
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 10:38
timotimo m: my @result = 1, 2 ␤ ... *; say @result[^5]
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(1 2 3 4 5)␤»
timotimo m: say 1, 2 ␤ ... *
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(...)␤»
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pmurias masak: the haskell approach of an operator just being a function with fancy syntax has a lot of elegance 10:44
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Xliff I thought ... needed at least three terms, or a function as the third element for it to work? 10:48
m: say 1, 3 ... *
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(...)␤»
Xliff m: my @t = 1, 3 ... *; say @t[^4]; 10:49
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(1 3 5 7)␤»
Xliff Huh
m: my @t = 1, 6 ... *; say @t[^4];
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(1 6 11 16)␤»
timotimo m: my @f = 1 ... *; say @f[^5]
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(1 2 3 4 5)␤»
Xliff m: my @t = 1, 3, 6 ... *; say @t[^4];
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Unable to deduce arithmetic or geometric sequence from 1,3,6 (or did you really mean '..'?)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/pNU4Z5wuV1 line 1␤␤»
Xliff m: my @t = 1, 3, 9 ... *; say @t[^4];
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(1 3 9 27)␤»
timotimo m: my @t = 0, 3, 6 ... *; say @t[^5]
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12)␤»
Xliff m: my @t = 1, 4, 16 ... *; say @t[^4]; 10:50
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(1 4 16 64)␤»
psch m: (0 ... *)[^5].say
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(0 1 2 3 4)␤»
psch \o
Xliff \o
I've finished my ePub cleanup project. Now need to find something else.
psch m: (1, 3, 6 .. *)[^5].say
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(1 3 6..Inf Nil Nil)␤»
psch hmm
"did you really mean '..'" doesn't seem particularly helpful right there :) 10:51
perlawhirl hi perlers 10:52
timotimo hi whirler! 10:53
perlawhirl i found a source of potential bugs/annoyances 10:54
m: say <matthew mark luke john>.sort(by => *.chars).tail
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(matthew)␤»
perlawhirl that's not really sorting by chars, but you wouldn't know it 10:55
Xliff perlawhirl, \o
perlawhirl it would be nice if it warned you
Xliff The results of my Mojo::DOM experiment.
gist.github.com/Xliff/34bb9371787d...891794d93b
timotimo oh, you get a whatever-code that builds a pair for you
psch interesting
perlawhirl yeah, &by is not understood by the auto-closure, only in the code block
which is fine, because you should do sort(*.chars) if you want sorting based on chars 10:56
but you know... it could catch people out
so a warning would be nice
psch well, it seems a general problem for every named that could take a Whatever
Xliff perlawhirl++ # That would have gotten me!
perlawhirl yeah
min, max, and minmax i think also have the same gotcha
timotimo if we offer a warning, we also have to offer a way to get the warning silenced if you really wanted that
perlawhirl well... i guess the other way to go is add multi to handle it so it just DWIM's 10:57
timotimo we don't give you the "proper" named semantics when you write by => (*.chars), right?
no, that sounds terrible
perlawhirl hah, i'm sorry :D
psch adding a multi to CORE means the solution is always adding a multi, which is kinda the opposite of DWIM 10:58
timotimo you'd have to execute the whatevercode and see if it returns a Pair that has a key that matches a named argument, and then redispatch? :\
psch cause that makes users have to do the same
Xliff perlawhirl, in your first example, what is it really sorting by? Is the (by => *.chars) ignored?
perlawhirl just a regular alpha sort
ie, same as .sort()
Xliff So the argument is ignored. =) 10:59
timotimo no, it's not
psch m: <a bb ccc dddd>.sort(-(*.chars)).say
camelia ( no output )
timotimo it transforms every element of the list into by => 1, by => 2, by => 3 etc
psch m: <a bb ccc dddd>.sort(-(*.chars)).say
camelia ( no output )
timotimo i don't think we have an order on Pair objects
psch m: say :1by cmp :2by 11:00
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Less␤»
Xliff m: say "matthew".chars
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«7␤»
Xliff m: <a bb ccc dddd>.sort(by => -(*.chars)).say 11:01
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(a bb ccc dddd)␤»
Xliff m: <-1 -2 -3 -4>.sort.say
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(-4 -3 -2 -1)␤»
psch m: <a bb ccc dddd>.sort(-(*.chars)).say
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(dddd ccc bb a)␤»
psch well, it does look like it does get ignored... vOv 11:02
Xliff .tell skink Commit 9dfe16e passes all tests on Windows. 11:04
yoleaux Xliff: I'll pass your message to skink.
perlawhirl psch: to be clear... my main concern is accidental use of the 'by' named parameter in a auto-closure. (*.chars) works, ({by => .chars}) works, (by => *.chars) does not work
unlike something like unique, that allows (as => *.some-method) because it's signature is :&as 11:05
psch m: Any.can('sort')[0].signature.perl.say 11:07
camelia ( no output )
psch well, what i have established with camelia right now is that the same code twice in a row doesn't seem to work 11:08
...cause i have this habit of trying things in a query first
point of that one was that sort doesn't have a named :&by, but a positional &by?
so ignoring it is perfectly fine, interface consistency and all
perlawhirl yes... if you added a ':' then you couldn't do sort(*.chars) 11:09
timotimo added a : ?
perlawhirl ie, make the sig :&by... but that would break things
so either a warning or workaround is needed 11:10
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psch ...a warning for a named argument on a method doesn't support it is kind of against interface consistency 11:10
+that
liztormato waves from below the sea 11:11
psch o/ liztormato
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liztormato Turns out there's 4G nowadays in the EuroTunnel 11:11
psch ah, so no singing lobsters :) 11:12
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liztormato Nope 11:12
perlawhirl psch: yeah, kinda spitballing here on what a nice solution might be.
psch perlawhirl: what's your solution to &say not accepting a :filehandle named? 11:13
m: say :filehandle($*ERR), "foo"
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'filehandle' passed␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/vFgwSLVYhC line 1␤»
timotimo what's bad about $*ERR.say?
that's what say with a :filehandle would do anyway
psch ...i suppose i'm somewhat cranky and will get more coffee 11:14
Xliff Chai is better for crankiness. Especially good chai
Spiced chai
liztormato Agree. ;-) 11:15
perlawhirl psch: i'm not sure i have one :/
timotimo i have cheap chai latte that comes as powder in bags :P
psch perlawhirl: to be clear though, the real problem is .unique and .sort having different signatures, isn't it? 11:16
as in, .unique has a named, .sort has a pos
perlawhirl well, yes basically. that is to say... i noticed it when i was playing around with a method call chain involving both unique and sort.
timotimo m: sub test(*@a, *%b) { dd @a, %b }; test(by => *.foo) 11:17
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«[]␤»
perlawhirl i had used .unique(as => *~) and then without thinking wrote .sort(by => *.chars) and was perplexed for a few mins when it didn't DWMI
timotimo m: sub test(*@a, *%b) { dd @a; dd %b }; test(by => *.foo)
camelia ( no output )
perlawhirl DWIM
timotimo oh camelia
oh, god damn it
i misunderstood the problem all along
Xliff timotimo: That's better than no chai latte (and I have the same). 11:18
timotimo by => *.chars does put the *.chars into the named slot
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Xliff timotimo: I think mine is Big Train 11:18
timotimo i thought you were complaining the by => *.chars was creating a WhateverCode that returns "by => $_.chars" for everything
perlawhirl i'm sorry timo... if the deficiency was anywhere, it was likely my poor explanation of the problem 11:19
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liztormato Commute& 11:21
11:21 liztormato left
psch yeah i really don't know how to fix that 11:21
timotimo well, it's the old thing about methods taking *% by default 11:23
psch partly, yes
but the inconsistency between .sort and .unique does exist
m: say Any.can('unique')>>.signature.say
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(($: | is raw))␤»
psch i mean, of course .sort and .unique do different things so that's kinda fine 11:24
but it also means that this could become a FAQ that's quickest answered with "RTFM", which is kind of eh...
perlawhirl psch: that's the rub. nothing is truly broken... it's a gotch that could sneek into code and potentially go unnoticed in for quite a while 11:25
apologies for my tired grammar+spelling 11:26
teatime off-topic: I hate when I forget to |sort before I |uniq and so it doesn't work. 11:32
timotimo that's why we have unique be sort + uniq, and squish be uniq :)
that's also why we didn't name it uniq
psch m: <aa ccc aa dddd bb ccc aa>.unique.say 11:33
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(aa ccc dddd bb)␤»
psch no sort there, afaict
timotimo er
Xliff heh
timotimo yeah, it retains the original order 11:34
but it has the effect of |sort|uniq
basically |sort|uniq|unsort
teatime so then, the effect of uniq?
your implementation details are of no concern to me, the lowly api consumer ;)
well.. unique... if it was the effect of uniq, it would just break... I guess that was your point. 11:35
timotimo now it was my turn to poorly explain
perlawhirl timotimo: | sort -u
has replaced uniq for me almost every time 11:36
timotimo oh, didn't know it did that 11:37
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psch uniq feels weirdly special-purpose to be included in the slew of *nix tools 11:38
but there's probably a few that i don't even know that are even more narrow in use... :) 11:39
moritz is still annoyed that cut only allows single-character delimiters
perlawhirl moritz: tell me about it... whipping out awk just because of this never ceases to annoy me 11:41
Juerd I tend to whip out perl5 for things that others use cut, sed and awk for. 11:43
I'm too dumb to learn a dozen different tools.
timotimo uniq seems nice for when a tool spits out logging information and you want to deduplicate
perlawhirl the prob is if you learned those tools before perl, it's muscle memory at this point
RabidGravy yeah, I'd been working with Unix for a few years before I encountered Perl 11:44
Juerd perlawhirl: In over 10 years I apparently did manage to unlearn them :)
perlawhirl Juerd: there's hope for us yet :D 11:45
Xliff RabidGravy, \o
teatime psch: hrm... uniq seems to fit in fine to me... I do a lot of find/xargs/awk/grep/whatever 5-line one-liners, and I end up using it occassionally 'cause it's exactly what I need
Xliff Anyone know the best way to handle wchar_t using NativeCall? 11:46
teatime psch: I used to have a set of aliases that implemented all of the basic set operations in terms of POSIX utils like uniq ;)
Xliff en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wide_character
It seems to be not-a-very-portable-type.
timotimo that's an understatement
Xliff Aaand.... that sinking feeling I got when I read that page just got worse. 11:47
teatime sounds like at worst, you can encode to UTF-32 in Perl, and use char32_t ? 11:48
do any functions actually take arrays of those and treat them like strings tho, hrm
teatime has done C and Unicode, but managed to avoid doing them together so far. 11:49
psch teatime: well, i'm not gonna argue that i know better than them POSIX people what's a useful tool... :) 11:51
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teatime lol 11:51
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RabidGravy I think POSIX was basically "what does SVr4 have, let's mandate that" 11:54
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Xliff teatime: I'm gonna cross that bridge when I get to it. 12:03
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Xliff Hopefully those functions are totally unnecessary and I can "lose" them. 12:03
teatime so then what lead you to needing wchars? some API you want to use or something? 12:06
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pmurias does Koalatee on modules.perl6.org actually serve a purpose? 12:26
it's not described what it is, and clicking on it points to an "Not Implemented Yet" page? 12:28
should I make a pull request to remove it?
masak +1
moritz pmurias: or push directly; you should have access already 12:30
pmurias: if not, please tell me
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pmurias how is the ugly icon next to some of the modules called? 12:35
RabidGravy it's "logotype/32x32.png" in the repository I think 12:36
pmurias why do we have it? 12:38
RabidGravy dunno 12:39
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teatime pmurias: they might look less stupid/ugly if they were vertically aligned. 12:49
at least they're already uniform size?
Xliff teatime: Yeah. I did a gptrixie on a header file and ran into wchar_t warnings. 12:52
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Xliff Is it a best practice to encapsulate NativeCall bindings inside a class (including the "use NativeCall")? 12:53
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dalek osystem: 27f3224 | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
Add EuclideanRhythm

See github.com/jonathanstowe/EuclideanRhythm		 13:21
dogbert2 Hello #perl6 13:22
Stupid question of the day, how often is camelia/rakudo-moar updated? 13:23
RabidGravy erp
dogbert2 the version that can be run here is from Friday
pmurias teatime: yes, thought that some alginment might turn them from dorky to ok/cool
13:23 pmurias left 13:24 Actualeyes joined
teatime sadly, you can't ever distribute design skills or a standard aesthetic to all of the contributors of perl modules :) 13:24
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ZoffixWin dogbert2, I'm pretty sure it automatically gets all the latest commits 13:27
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ZoffixWin it's logotype/logo_32x32.png 13:29
dogbert2 hi zoffix, I was under the same impression but there are several commits to moar-nom since 40a953
ZoffixWin *shrug* no idea 13:30
dogbert2 I noticed some 'shouting' against Camelia not returning output. Perhaps something has gone awry.
ZoffixWin Maybe 13:31
suman Hi there, Is there a decent IDE for perl 6 like wing ide, spyder, pyscripter for python?? 13:32
RabidGravy depends what you mean by "decent IDE"
ZoffixWin There's Atom. But I really only use it for its editor. 13:35
dogbert2 m: my @a[2;2]; @a[0;0] = 17; @a[0;1] = 4711; say @a; 13:37
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«[[17 4711] [(Any) (Any)]]␤»
dogbert2 can you make the two assignments into one somehow?
i.e. initialize one row with one statement 13:38
psch m: my @a[2;2]; @a[0] = 17, 4711; say @a;
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to a 2 dimension array with only 1 dimensions␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/AfEkoTAm4m line 1␤␤»
psch m: my @a[2;2]; @a[0;*] = 17, 4711; say @a;
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Partially dimensioned views of arrays not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/fd8rLywMlB line 1␤␤»
psch hm
psch doesn't deal with shaped arrays often enough apparently
dogbert2 psch, thx for trying, haven't been able to figure out if it works 13:39
psch dogbert2: well, the last one says "not yet implemented", so i'd suspect that's what's supposed to work... :) 13:40
dogbert2 ah well :) thx anyway
skink Oh dear 13:42
yoleaux 11:04Z <Xliff> skink: Commit 9dfe16e passes all tests on Windows.
skink bcrypt hashes generated in Perl6 test for validity in Perl6/Python3, but ones generated in Python3 fail in Perl6 13:43
Thanks Xliff 13:44
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skink D'oh! 13:44
$2a$ vs $2b$ 13:45
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ZzZ__ hey 13:49
i'm learn perl programing
I was undecided 13:50
which perl 5 or perl 6 learning ?
shinobi-cl 6 is more fun!
skink Perl 5 is an extremely mature language with huge amounts of documentation and library support
Perl 6 is less mature, but much nicer in my opinion :) 13:51
ZzZ__ which would be better to start from
?
psch ZzZ__: what is your reason for learning perl? 13:52
ZzZ__ network programing
web
psch well, perl5 has the more extensive library support and documentation, as skink says 13:53
and that included webdev
*includes
RabidGravy but both are theoretically equally capable
Begi (but it's also possible with Perl 6)
RabidGravy I'd say eventually Perl 6 will lead to nicer designs 13:54
skink More importantly, however, there a lot more tutorial guides intended for new programmers for Perl 5
ZzZ__ Is there much difference?
skink for ZzZ__'s specific need
Begi ZzZ__: what kind of differences ? 13:55
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RabidGravy the code base is for example completely different 13:55
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RabidGravy eugh something totally changed in qjackctl since last week 13:57
didn't even see an update
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shinobi-cl Hi all: I want to overload [] for a custom object 13:58
m: class A { has @.data; method postcircumfix:<[ ]>(A $a, @posspec) { say "op []"; } }; my @data = (1,2,3); my $o = A.new(data=>@data); say $o.perl; say $o[2];
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«A.new(data => [1, 2, 3])␤Index out of range. Is: 2, should be in 0..0␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/8KebdyTxGH line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/8KebdyTxGH line 1␤␤»
psch shinobi-cl: doc.perl6.org/language/subscripts#M...bscripting
RabidGravy psch++ # beat me to it
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psch although with 'has @.data' i'd probably just use handles, except if you need something magical like modulo access 13:59
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psch m: class A { has @.data handles <elems AT-POS ASSIGN-POS BIND-POS DELETE-POS EXISTS-POS>; }; my A $a .= new; $a[0] = "foo"; say $a.perl 14:00
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«A.new(data => ["foo"])␤»
psch like that
shinobi-cl Wow, what is that 'handles' keyword? 14:04
psch an unfortunately undocumented trait_mod
m: say &trait_mod:<handles>.perl
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«sub trait_mod:<handles> (| is raw) { #`(Sub|43565336) ... }␤»
psch m: say &trait_mod:<handles>>>signature.perl 14:05
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/WyUcLKgJT8␤Missing dot on method call␤at /tmp/WyUcLKgJT8:1␤------> 3say &trait_mod:<handles>>>7⏏5signature.perl␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤»
psch m: say &trait_mod:<handles>>>.signature.perl
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(:(| is raw),)␤»
psch ah, only one cand
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psch hah, no 14:05
m: say &trait_mod:<handles>.candidates>>.signature.perl
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«(:(Attribute:D $target, $thunk), :(Method:D $m, &thunk))␤»
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psch shinobi-cl: basically says "if any method named like the RHS is called on the object we're in, delegate to the LHS" 14:06
m: class A { method foo handles <bar> { "foo..?" } }; say A.bar
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Method 'bar' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/8StWi8yGXH line 1␤␤»
psch ahh 14:07
in that case the return value handles it, apparently
that's neat
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shinobi-cl So, in the documentation, there are examples like this: multi method elems (::?CLASS:D:) 14:30
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shinobi-cl This ::?CLASS the type is for the current class? 14:31
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psch m: class C { method foo { say ::?CLASS } }; C.foo; class D is C { }; D.foo 14:33
camelia ( no output )
psch shinobi-cl: yeah, it is
shinobi-cl is there a way to emulate this kind of subscripting? $a[1;3], or $a['C4'] (like a cell reference in Excel?)? 14:34
I'm trying to to a kind of 2d table structure and i want to use something like $a[A1] for the first cell 14:37
psch i'd like to recommend against that
shinobi-cl or maybe $a<A1 B2 C3> for getting 3 cells at the same time
psch postcircumfix:<[ ]> is strongly expected to only take Int arguments in the circumfix
further, i don't really see why you can't just a Hash in the first place 14:38
+use
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skink RabidGravy, Made a PR for Crypt::Bcrypt ownership change 14:41
dalek osystem: 2d5f549 | skinkade++ | META.list:
Update Crypt::Bcrypt

Old version no longer works. This is a re-write with a simpler API and updated crypt_blowfish library.		 14:42
osystem: 3b19c56 | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
Merge pull request #191 from skinkade/patch-1

Update Crypt::Bcrypt
RabidGravy there
skink :D
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RabidGravy airtime.rabidgravy.com:8000/stream - the last thing I made playing with itself :) 15:08
psch i feel that would strongly benefit from a straight 8th hihat 15:12
RabidGravy yeah 15:13
El_Che RabidGravy: I would add some hamsters. Always a hit: www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WpMlwVwyd...6TzAQXVpB8
psch it's a bit disorienting as-is
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shinobi-cl class A { multi method EXISTS-KEY(::?CLASS:D $key) { return True }; multi method AT-KEY(::?CLASS:D $key) { return "111" } }; my $o = A.new(); say $o{aDSD} 15:15
m: class A { multi method EXISTS-KEY(::?CLASS:D $key) { return True }; multi method AT-KEY(::?CLASS:D $key) { return "111" } }; my $o = A.new(); say $o{aDSD}
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/vWu_2eXhsS␤Undeclared routine:␤ aDSD used at line 1␤␤»
RabidGravy now if Gtk::Simple had a slider widget, this could be adjusted in realtime 15:19
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bartolin [Coke], nine: the other day you took a look at RT #123276. I added a comment there -- do you agree that the test should be adjusted and the ticket be closed? 15:47
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=123276
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ZoffixWin skink, was any attempt made to contact the original author? 15:52
skink ZoffixWin, He hasn't been seen since Dec
ZoffixWin It's just I see no Issues reported on their repo and from their point of view we effectively just silently ditched their work from Ecosystem without them even knowing it.
skink You're right. Shall I make a bug report? 15:53
ZoffixWin I'll just post an Issue on their repo saying the module's broken and we've replaced it. If they wish it readded then can submit a PR to readd 15:54
(under another name now, I guess, or is :auth<> fully supported now?)
15:54 sue left
skink Alrighty 15:54
ZoffixWin Done github.com/carbin/p6-Crypt-Bcrypt/issues/6 15:57
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skink Meanwhile, I managed to break panda :) 16:05
shinobi-cl Hi, does anyone knows of a current working module that overloads [] or {} ? 16:07
ZoffixWin shinobi-cl, what for?
shinobi-cl, I have an example of postcircumfix here. If you add is export trait and pack it into module, it should work: tpm2016.zoffix.com/#/17 16:08
It's just lines 2-4
skink panda --force install . wasn't actually overwriting my install, so I tried removing the files manually first 16:11
Seems panda doesn't like that
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ZoffixWin m: say '𝒻𝒶𝓃𝒸𝓎 𝓰𝓮𝓷𝓲𝓾𝓼 ' 16:17
camelia ( no output )
ZoffixWin heh... apparently Unicode support on my IRC client is far worse than the browser
.u 𝒻
yoleaux U+1D4BB MATHEMATICAL SCRIPT SMALL F [Ll] (𝒻)
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skink Someone wanna 'panda install Crypt::Bcrypt' and see if the test passes? 16:27
Shared library had the wrong path until just a moment ago
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ZoffixWin skink, "Successfully installed Crypt::Bcrypt" 16:30
moritz skink: will do, once I get my rakudo running again :-)
skink Thanks ZoffixWin
moritz skink: same here; got a one-line for testing it in the isntalled state? 16:33
skink my $hash = bcrypt-hash("password"); bcrypt-match("password", $hash); 16:34
moritz moritz@pete:~$ perl6-m -M Crypt::Bcrypt -e 'say bcrypt-hash("password", :rounds(15));
> '
Cannot locate native library 'resources/crypt_blowfish.so': resources/crypt_blowfish.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
ugexe Crypt::Bcrypt isn't declaring any of its build dependencies 16:36
skink Yeah that's what I was worried about. If I'm including resources/lib.so, is its path in the installed state just 'lib.so'?
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ZoffixWin skink, I don't see resources/ dir in the repo. Where's the crypt_blowfish.so you declerated in resources in mETA file? 16:38
[Coke] is there an ecosystem module for json that uses a nativecall library?
skink It gets built by Build.pm / Makefile.in
ZoffixWin Ah, is it building it automatically?
K
Begi [Coke]: i don't thinks so, but i'm not sure 16:40
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[Coke] ok. I know there's a zillion others, just checking on the NC. Danke. 16:48
RabidGravy I looked at making one but it seemed more trouble than it's worth 16:50
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Begi RabidGravy: but I guess it'd be a lot faster ? 16:52
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[Coke] Eh. it'll help with a presentation. 16:55
timotimo there is one 16:57
um ... there was one
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ZoffixWin m: my Str $x; say $x.chars 17:18
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Str in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed. in block <unit> at /tmp/hb4k3MSzXy line 1␤0␤»
ZoffixWin m: my Str $x; say "Tis good" if $x.?chars 17:19
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Str in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed. in block <unit> at /tmp/xei1iu1jfK line 1␤»
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ZoffixWin :/ feels like at least the latter should do something sane 17:20
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psch m: Int.chars 17:20
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Int in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed.»
psch ZoffixWin: that warning is sensible, don't you agree? 17:21
ZoffixWin I suppose. But it's a very common pattern to do { if $x.defined and $x.chars }. You'd think there'd be an easier way to write it
I guess there's no good way around it. 17:23
psch "if $x.defined and $x.chars" is equivalent to "if so $x" for Str
or, well, just "if $x"... :)
ZoffixWin Oh. Right! '0' is not False
psch++
<3 Perl 6
ugexe if $x.?chars 17:24
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ZoffixWin ugexe, that fails. It tries to stringify a type (see eval above) 17:25
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smls m: my token foo (&regex) { <&regex> }; 17:26
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/0cERbDiirW␤Undeclared routine:␤ regex used at line 1␤␤»
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smls ^^ Any particular reason why that does not compile? 17:26
ugexe ZoffixWin: ah. eww 17:27
dalek osystem: 326b154 | Altai-man++ | META.list:
See github.com/Altai-man/deredere - just a little web-scraping framework
osystem: e8dbac7 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list:
Merge pull request #192 from Altai-man/master

Add deredere library to ecosystem: github.com/Altai-man/deredere/
jdv79 ZoffixWin: i don't follow that one 17:28
ZoffixWin jdv79, which one?
jdv79 the whole thing
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timotimo m: say quietly "Oh lord".?chars 17:28
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«7␤»
timotimo m: say quietly Str.?chars 17:29
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«0␤»
timotimo ZoffixWin: ^
jdv79 where is this warning coming from?
m: my Str $s; $s.chars;
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Str in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed. in block <unit> at /tmp/1ufQXqfCs5 line 1␤»
jdv79 is that chars trying to string out the type obj?
ugexe m: my Str $x; say WHAT($x.?chars); # '0' is not false, but 0 is
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Str in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed. in block <unit> at /tmp/VohYIdno74 line 1␤(Int)␤»
psch smls: seems a bit weird from here, yeah 17:30
dalek c: 3393d0a | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod:
Mention '0' is True in Perl 6 and common pattern is simperl
ZoffixWin timotimo, :o
skink [Coke], You could bind to github.com/esnme/ujson4c/
timotimo of course if you call .chars on Str, it'll try to use the Str as a string :) 17:31
jdv79 which seems confusing for a newbie
ZoffixWin jdv79, yeah, I believe what it's happening is it's going off to Cool's .chars which calls .Str so you're attempting to call .Str on a type object: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...ool.pm#L63
timotimo would a newbie expect every Str to behave like "" in every case?
jdv79 i'm sure there's a deep reason why just returning 0 is a bad idea but really...?
skink That looks to be one of the friendlier APIs you could bind, and the benchmarks of its parent lib seem good if I'm reading them right
jdv79 in that case i had to think about it for a few minutes 17:32
psch ZoffixWin: not quite. Str.chars explicitly generates the warning in the Str:U case
timotimo we do return 0
jdv79 and i'm not a 100% newbie
ZoffixWin Ah
jdv79 and a warning?
psch ZoffixWin: by calling self.Str :)
ZoffixWin :D
m: say quietly 0/0
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Attempt to divide by zero using div␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/43FpbL1ufe line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/43FpbL1ufe line 1␤␤»
jdv79 seems borderline unperlish to me but ok:)
psch jdv79: which part? that it happens at all (e.g. for Int.chars as well) or that it happens with Str.chars specifically? 17:33
ZoffixWin FWIW, modern perls made length() not emit a warning on undefs 17:34
smls They did? 17:35
ZoffixWin Though, that's likely due to what started this conversion... You can'd do "if $str" in Perl 5, because '0' is false
smls $ perl -wE 'say length undef'
Use of uninitialized value in say at -e line 1.
ZoffixWin Yeah, since 5.14 if my memory is correct
timotimo that's why we have "with", too :)
smls that's with PErl 5.22
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ZoffixWin smls, that's a warning for length() returning undef, not a warning for an undef argument to length() 17:36
smls ah, true
stmuk DBIish fails its tests 17:37
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[Coke] there's nothing in nativecall to tie constants to a name, right? so if there's a #define FOO 3 I need to have a similar p6-level constant, yes? 17:40
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stmuk odd travis has passes 17:43
[Coke] skink: I'm looking at json-c; is ujson4c more straightforward?
skink I literally search 'fastest json library' and one of the first results was UltraJSON, ujson4c being a friendlier API for it 17:44
searched*
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skink I didn't look that hard tbh 17:45
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jdv79 what is the reason this time to do json faster? seems like a recurring quest around here. 17:49
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ZoffixWin ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ it's used for everything. The faster the better. 17:54
mst jdv79: it turns out to be a limiting factor a lot 17:55
e.g. JSON::PP often shows up at the top of my profiles 17:56
(for perl5 code)
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jdv79 JSON::XS is pretty fast. is that a limiting factor for a lot of people? 18:00
i know in p6 it seems to be
skink AH
I finally got the bundling working correctly
$path = %?RESOURCES<crypt_blowfish.so>.Str; 18:01
Interesting that is native() can't take an IO::Path 18:02
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RabidGravy It would only be a convenience for the user because it goes straight to the VM pretty directly 18:04
skink moritz or ZoffixWin, could you --force install and see? 18:06
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ZoffixWin $ perl6-m -M Crypt::Bcrypt -e 'say bcrypt-hash("password", :rounds(15))'; 18:08
$2b$15$XAiG5SSgQB9Fyy0JlYhfc.cknPvFhAH6raJElAmOep7GhGMPtt/nW
skink++ works
skink Sweet. Now at some point I just gotta add Windows support :)
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[Coke] jdv79: I'm not doing this to make anything faster. 18:12
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skink You alright there, _28_ria? 18:19
ugexe stmuk: DBIish travis test is an install using --notests apparently 18:20
ZoffixWin :S what is the point of that travis then :S
ugexe deletes/todos tests until CI passes, then exclaims its ready for the public
i guess you could look at it as its testing if it segfaults during install... 18:22
ZoffixWin But would it even... if no tests are run?
ugexe if the META6.json is incorrect i think the call to CURI.install would still fail
and the precompilation 18:23
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ugexe (i.e. .install would fail trying to copy a non-existing file, or when there is a syntax error while trying to precompile) 18:24
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ugexe not that those scenarios make it a reasonable way to look at it 18:26
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stmuk ugexe++ # well spotted 18:40
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RabidGravy at one point, it definitely was running all the tests properly 18:41
I think the problem is that there are no installed libraries on the travis 18:42
ugexe github.com/perl6/DBIish/commit/940...5408130dc4 18:43
skink Is setting up travis encouraged? 18:48
ZoffixWin skink, yes.
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ZoffixWin It's the only autotesting facility we have at the moment 18:48
well.. there's panda testing too, I guess 18:49
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ugexe you can test on windows with a little ingenuity: github.com/ugexe/zef/blob/master/.appveyor.yml 18:50
stmuk BTW OpenSSL has outdated windows DDL checked in as binaries which should be upgraded (if anyone knows where they come from). I emailed the guy who added them but didnt get a reply yet 18:52
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skink stmuk, From what I can tell, they're the actual plain libs for OpenSSL 19:09
SSLeay being the software OpenSSL was forked from originally
timotimo stmuk: is that park of star, btw? 19:11
or "not yet"?
stmuk skink: yes but I was wondering where the updates came from? 19:13
timotimo: "not yet"
19:14 hankache left
timotimo ok 19:14
19:14 BenGoldberg left
timotimo because it'd be pretty damn uncomfortable for us to be "the project that dares ship year-old ssl libraries as binaries" 19:15
stmuk indeed
I spent most of the last few years updating OpenSSL (and glibc) :/
timotimo yeah :| 19:16
skink You could have its build script pull in libressl-portable and compile the libs
timotimo no
that'd require our windows users to have a compiler installed
which is the reason why it ships dlls in the first place
stmuk yeah its mainly a problem with windows 19:17
skink Alright, here's a better idea then
Set up another repo that builds and cryptographically signs Open/LibreSSL, then have the module download the libs from there and verify them
stmuk or just locate a frequently updated source of DDLs and poll that 19:18
timotimo yes
stmuk which brings me back to my original question :)
timotimo gtk-simple also ships dlls; we should update those, too
skink Is there a trusted source of OpenSSL libs compiled for Windows? 19:19
stmuk I'd imagine so
timotimo maybe a centralized/shared mechanism for allowing a site-admin to override the dlls we ship with a local/other repository would be a good thing to have 19:20
skink If you wanna go third-party there seems to be three options 19:21
wiki.openssl.org/index.php/Binaries
timotimo also, tooling to inspect what computers on a site have and such .. 19:22
stmuk skink: that looks useful thanks 19:23
timotimo hm. does SDL2 ship binaries at all? i wonder ... 19:24
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timotimo i mean SDL2::Raw 19:25
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timotimo it doesn't 19:27
stmuk usually it would use linux package installed libs
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stmuk and I think I had to compile on Mac 19:28
windows is the special case because so few users have a compiler and/or sets of libraries
MadcapJake with NativeCall, for a char* when do you use uint8 vs uint8 is rw vs CArray[uint8] ? 19:29
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MadcapJake in one example in the NativeCall.pod, it shows even using Str o_O 19:29
timotimo yeah, you would use Str for that 19:30
unless the function is expected to be modifying the value for you
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MadcapJake what about const char *? Same or with is rw trait? 19:30
skink Alrighty ZoffixWin I just set up Travis for Crypt::{Random,Bcrypt}
ZoffixWin skink++ 19:31
skink Currently building
MadcapJake would love to read a «Basic use of Strings» section in that NativeCall.pod 19:32
any takers? :)
timotimo hm, what does the readme of zavolaj have to say about this?
MadcapJake same as doc's pod 19:33
how do you do the synapsebot thing? 19:34
dalek: help
synopsebot6: help
synopsebot6: .help
syn 21
Well, here's the link design.perl6.org/S21.html#Strings
Oh and missed this little detail: "If the C function requires the lifetime of a string to exceed the function call, the argument must be manually encoded and passed as CArray[uint8]" 19:37
stmuk I suppose the best solution for windows openssl is not to ship DDLs but nativecall the equivs which come with windows and are updated by MS 19:38
timotimo um, isn't that what "explicitly-manage" is for?
skink Hm. ZoffixWin, on Travis, Bcrypt fails with a similar error 19:39
To before
MadcapJake timotimo: that's what I thought :/ was that taken out of the nativecall pod? 19:40
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timotimo are you sure that S21 is up to date whatsoever? 19:41
skink Tests successfully and installs it, then the 'prove' command on the test fails
timotimo Last Modified: 23 Nov 2012 19:42
^- maybe not
github.com/perl6/specs/blame/maste...n-code.pod
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timotimo wait, that section is about explicitly-manage 19:44
MadcapJake timotimo: github.com/perl6/doc/commit/52daa5...6432703eb3
19:45 pomJ joined
MadcapJake it was replaced by a CArray example 19:45
rudi_s: why replace the explicitly-manage example in the nativecall.pod? 19:46
ZoffixWin skink, no idea.
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skink When I run prove on my own machine I get a different but related (TAP) error 19:49
Could not execute (perl6 t/01-compare.t): open3: exec of perl6 t/01-compare.t failed at /usr/share/perl/5.18/TAP/Parser/Iterator/Process.pm line 168. 19:50
RabidGravy MOAR COWBELL rabidgravy.com:8000/stream
skink travis-ci.org/skinkade/p6-Crypt-Bcrypt#L1075
RabidGravy which is perl6 euclidean --channel=1 --device=3 --bpm=136 --part=35,16,4 --part=39,16,7 --part=54,24,13 --part=63,13,3 --part=36,11,4 --part=56,24,11
skink ... yet we know the build itself works
¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 19:51
Xliff RabidGravy, LOL!
euclidean?
skink The modules page itself still says 'not set up' instead of failed (passed for Random), so maybe it knows something we don't, eh?
Xliff Hmmm.... 19:52
Xliff goes to update rakudo on the VM.
RabidGravy Xliff, cgm.cs.mcgill.ca/~godfried/publicat.../banff.pdf - euclidean
ZoffixWin RabidGravy, what stream is generated with Perl 6? :o
RabidGravy that is only generating the notes
ZoffixWin That clap sounds awful, but I'm impressed :P 19:53
RabidGravy it could be done all in Perl 6 (apart from the synthesis right now), but it gets a little tired sometimes and starts streaming weird
ZoffixWin I wonder what it'd sound with clap replaced by those maraccas 19:54
skink, the modules page caches travis status and updates it about every 2 hours, if there have been commits to the repo 19:55
RabidGravy actual snare drum?
ZoffixWin *shrug*
Xliff RabidGravy, （◎ . ◎）
ZoffixWin Better :) 19:56
Xliff Wonder if the amen break is in there somewhere...
RabidGravy wants a proper 808 clap I think
skink ZoffixWin, OH
You know what it is?
ZoffixWin What?
skink When you do panda-install, it put the .so in .panda-work/resources instead of plopping it in resources/ 19:57
ZoffixWin ah
skink I probably have to run panda-build first
RabidGravy yeah, if you're doing panda-test sure 19:58
skink panda-install does panda-test but with its temporary files, afaik 19:59
psch ...what is that metre even
or, well, time signature i suppose
...and then it disappeared /o\
psch does that too o/ 20:00
RabidGravy Xliff, it's doing the amen break now using the same kit 20:02
skink Anyone know the current state of Rakudo on the BSDs?
RabidGravy works for me on FreeBSD 8.4 20:03
bartolin works fine on FreeBSD 10.3 as well
RabidGravy yeah worked there for me last time I compiled (and some 9 as well) 20:04
skink Anyone tried OpenBSD?
I have a feeling if I just left this stream on I'd slowly be driven to madness 20:05
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stmuk I got 100% test pass on OpenBSD last time I tried it a few months back 20:05
skink neat
Xliff RabidGravy, LOLOL! 20:06
RabidGravy++ # MOAR DRUMS
stmuk I've also ran successfully on "BitRig" -- an OpenBSD fork with logging fs, clang rather than gcc and other modern features 20:07
I see math tests fail on NetBSD (edge case stuff) due to libm on that system :/
20:08 skids joined
ugexe ive gotten netbsd to pass, moar and jvm 20:08
stmuk ugexe: I think I ended up skipping the math edge cases
skink Does panda-installdeps also fetch build-time deps? I assume so 20:11
stmuk S03-operators/arith.t line 250 20:12
ugexe i think i changed some moar Configure.pl flag
stmuk rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=124147
skink Yo Xliff, you got that VM running? 20:13
RabidGravy skink, yeah, it actually flattens all the dependencies and installs them in one go
Xliff skink, yeees?
skink, the VM is Linux. Host is Windows. 20:14
skink Alrighty. panda-build failed on Travis because I put it before installdeps :D
Xliff Does the rakudo source tree build under Windows?
Or do I need something like cygwin?
ugexe it builds under windows 20:15
20:15 BenGoldberg joined
Xliff OK. I will clone and try it. 20:17
I'm using rakudobrew under Linux. Will that work under Windows? 20:18
20:18 pomJ left
stmuk yes 20:18
Xliff Thanks.
stmuk its likely some modules might not work under windows 20:19
skink YES 20:23
ZoffixWin, Bcrypt Travis build passes
That was indeed the problem
ZoffixWin \o/
Xliff stmuk, I'm just going to do a basic install. Testing modules for skink. 20:29
moritz skink: the current version of Crypt::Bcrypt works fine for me (on Ubuntu)
20:29 BenGoldberg left
skink moritz, I got the installation working this morning after figuring out shared library inclusion 20:30
moritz skink++
skink Travis was failing because said lib was being built in a temporary location that was gone by the time it ran the latter round of tests
20:31 BenGoldberg joined, darutoko left
Xliff Hrm. 20:32
/cygdrive/d/SVN/Github/rakudobrew/moar-nom/install: No such file or directory at Configure.pl line 91.
skink For Windows support, should I just cross-compile a .dll and bundle it? 20:34
Xliff skink, probably the best option. 20:35
Hrm. 20:37
No idea why rakudobrew is failing under Cygwin
Not rakudobrew. It's Configure.pl in rakudo that's failing. 20:38
timotimo i don't think cygwin is supported
Xliff Well, that would do it. 20:39
I guess I could try using ActiveState???
moritz I think so
Xliff Need a compiled under the Windows env, though. 20:40
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skink Oh, well, that was easy 20:48
Changed %CC% to i586-mingw32msvc-gcc and .so to .dll in the existing makefile 20:49
RabidGravy :-O 20:51
skink Is that a good or bad :-O
RabidGravy it's surprise it works 20:53
ugexe download visual studio community edition for a windows compiler 20:54
and strawberry perl for a perl 5
skink I don't know if it works yet :)
rudi_s MadcapJake: Because it was broken and wasn't a generally useful example.
There are better alternatives (which the replacement should be). 20:55
skink Xliff, Pushed experimental Windows support to Crypt::Bcrypt 20:56
I'd be absolutely shocked if that dll works though
20:59 avenj left
timotimo Xliff: i think strawberry perl is a common way to build perl6 on windows 21:00
21:00 avenj joined, avenj left, avenj joined
Xliff timotimo++ # Strawberry perl 21:04
21:06 _nadim joined 21:12 AlexDaniel joined 21:15 dvinciguerra_ joined
Xliff OK. rakudobrew is definitely better under Strawberry 21:16
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Xliff Wow! Build is slower on the Windows host than it is in the Linux VM!! 21:17
AlexDaniel m: :9<76>R=my$x; say $x
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«69␤» 21:18
21:18 BenGoldberg joined
AlexDaniel just don't post that ↑ on reddit 21:19
ah wait, I forgot something
m: :Ⅸ<76>R=my$x; say $x 21:21
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/LAl1sR0JvE␤Bogus statement␤at /tmp/LAl1sR0JvE:1␤------> 3:7⏏5Ⅸ<76>R=my$x; say $x␤ expecting any of:␤ colon pair␤»
AlexDaniel nope :(
Xliff gist.github.com/Xliff/b021212a564f...0573d66600 21:24
AlexDaniel m: 42, 69, 96 ZR= my ($x,$y,$z); say “$x $y $z” # heh 21:25
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«42 69 96␤»
AlexDaniel m: my ($x,$y) = 42, 69; $x, $y X+= 5; say “$x $y” 21:27
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«47 74␤»
21:30 Begi1 joined
Xliff *sigh* 21:31
AlexDaniel Xliff: ? :)
Xliff OK. rakudo built. I need to get the windows environment straight though because "git" isn't available under the Windows shell
21:31 Begi left, Begi1 is now known as Begi
Xliff Typically when I do Unixish stuff under the host, it is under a bash.exe 21:31
However Strawberry Built rakudo needs the Windows shell. 21:32
AlexDaniel Xliff: oh! Once upon a time I tried to install Perl 6 on windows 21:33
Xliff: msi was not available back then, not sure why
ugexe cmd.exe, Visual Studio Command, powershell, etc all work perfectly fine under windows 21:34
Xliff Yeah. I need 2016.3, so I can't use the MSI, which is still at 2016.1
So I'm building from source.
AlexDaniel Xliff: so I opened up the terminal, realized that I've not used windows for more than 5 years… and gave up like 3 minutes after
Xliff AlexDaniel++ # Save yourself from the insanity. 21:35
ugexe github.com/ugexe/zef/blob/master/.appveyor.yml # complete windows perl6 install
skink @ your gist: I bet there's somewhere in there you could add '-j$(nproc)' to make
21:35 BenGoldberg left
ugexe its all very simple 21:35
21:36 BenGoldberg joined
Xliff skink: Yeah, but I think the parsing process is decidedly uniproc 21:36
ugexe, Oooh! Bookmarking. Thanks.
HOWEVER! I have gotten through this part. 21:37
AlexDaniel honestly, people using windows have to be really smart. I don't think that you can figure out things like this otherwise.
Xliff It's "rakudobrew build panda" that's failing now.
ugexe use zef, it works on every OS :P
RabidGravy I want this to work:
Xliff Particularly Shell::Command -- which I don't think is windows aware, anyways.
RabidGravy m: sub foo(:$foo!) { say $foo }; my &f = &foo.assuming(foo => *); f("var")
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1␤ in sub __PRIMED_ANON at EVAL_2 line 1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/F_xTZAM8kL line 1␤␤»
Xliff ugexe: That was my next step. :P 21:38
ugexe if you want to use panda anyway, use zef to force install Shell::Command, then install panda
RabidGravy but I looked at the code for .assuming once and it made my headache
Xliff ugexe, I just want to get to the point where I can install skink's modules 21:39
skink has a stalker 21:40
ugexe his module wont install on windows. 1: he doesnt declare all his build dependencies 2: one of those built dependencies is Shell::Command
Xliff AAaieeee!
skink Oh, right. Forgot about the dude's shell script :D
Xliff thinms skink will soon lose his stalker. =p 21:41
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AlexDaniel m: sub foo(:$foo!) { say $foo }; my &f = { &foo.assuming(foo => $_)() }; f("var") 21:41
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«var␤»
Xliff s/thinms/thinks/
AlexDaniel RabidGravy: so, uh, it works 21:42
RabidGravy: not sure if that is what you wanted
BenGoldberg IF you're going to do it that way, then you don't even need .assuming
AlexDaniel yup
BenGoldberg m: sub foo(:$foo!) { say $foo }; my &f = { foo($_) }; f("var")
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1␤ in sub foo at /tmp/bpqAgJAJG5 line 1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/bpqAgJAJG5 line 1␤␤»
BenGoldberg m: sub foo(:$foo!) { say $foo }; my &f = { foo($^x) }; f("var")
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1␤ in sub foo at /tmp/_m44VUMHik line 1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/_m44VUMHik line 1␤»
BenGoldberg m: sub foo(:$foo!) { say $foo }; my &f = -> $x { foo($x) }; f("var") 21:43
camelia ( no output )
AlexDaniel m: sub foo(:$foo!) { say $foo }; my &f = { &foo(foo => $_) }; f("var")
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«var␤»
RabidGravy yeah
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AlexDaniel m: sub foo(:$foo!) { say $foo }; my &f = { foo(:foo($_)) }; f("var") 21:43
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«var␤»
BenGoldberg m: sub foo(:$foo!) { say $foo }; my &f = { foo(foo => $_) }; f("var");
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«var␤»
Xliff OK. That's Crypt::Random done. 21:44
skink ugexe, I see rmdir is a built-in. No remove file built-in?
ugexe unlink deletes files. rmdir delets an empty directory
awwaiid I just grabbed rakudo-star windows msi and installed -- no panda?
skink mk
AlexDaniel well, you probably need .assuming if you want to do something like this:
m: sub foo(:$foo!) { say $foo }; my &f = { &foo.assuming(foo => $_) }; f("var")()
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«var␤»
AlexDaniel like 21:45
m: sub foo(:$foo!) { say $foo }; my &f = { &foo.assuming(foo => $_) }; my $x = f("var"); $x
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/bNrItvFg31:␤Useless use of $x in sink context (line 1)␤»
AlexDaniel m: sub foo(:$foo!) { say $foo }; my &f = { &foo.assuming(foo => $_) }; my $x = f("var"); $x()
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«var␤»
Xliff zef fetching under Windows is broken.
===> Fetching: Crypt::Bcrypt 21:46
Can't extract non-existent path: False
in method extract at sources\F94CA4E91B2AF324B8A925E1F065F40258AE4D90 (Zef::Ex
tract) line 5
skink: Have a git link for Crypt::Bcrypt?
ugexe sounds like something about the package itself is broken
BenGoldberg m: sub foo(:$foo!) { say $foo }; my &f = { &foo.assuming(foo => $_) }; .(), .(), .() for f("var");
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«var␤var␤var␤»
skink github.com/skinkade/p6-Crypt-Bcrypt
ugexe there are windows CI tests for windows fetching
skink Okay ugexe I can safely remove Shell::Common. By other build depends I imagine you mean Panda? 21:47
Xliff skink: Shell::Common?
dalek c: cdc260b | (Brock Wilcox)++ | doc/Type/Callable.pod:
Minor edit for callable role doc
 21:48
ugexe skink: anything you `use`
BenGoldberg m: sub foo(:$foo!) { say $foo }; my &f = -> $foo { { foo(:$foo) } }; .(), .(), .() for f("var");
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«var␤No such method 'CALL-ME' for invocant of type 'Bool'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/yTq8qRvMZW line 1␤␤»
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skink Xliff, Originally used for bash commands 21:48
BenGoldberg m: sub foo(:$foo!) { say $foo }; my &f = -> $foo { -> { foo(:$foo) } }; .(), .(), .() for f("var");
camelia rakudo-moar 40a953: OUTPUT«var␤var␤var␤»
skink But I removed most of them and the rest were just rm
MadcapJake rudi_s: so explicitly-manage is not recommended? What are the differences between using it and using a CArray[uint8]? We should probably have some mention of explicitly-manage since it is is in NativeCall and others uses it. 21:50
awwaiid Xliff: you've been doing windows stuff lately maybe you know -- is rakudo-star supposed to come with panda (aka am I doing something wrong with 2016.01 that it isn't there)?
skink ugexe, I imagine I can take them out of regular depends if I add them to build-depends? 21:51
Should just be LibraryMake, Panda and Crypt::Random now
ugexe Panda requires Shell::Command itself 21:52
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skink ... Well then. 21:52
That complicates things
ugexe github.com/ugexe/zef#build-paths
there is how to write a panda-free Build.pm
Xliff awwaiid: I don't think panda was included in the MSI. 21:54
I know rakudobrew typically installs panda, though.
rudi_s MadcapJake: Yes, that's what I got from the discussion. - Scoped Carray[uint8] is automatically deallocated once it goes out of scope. I've no idea how memory management works for explicitly-mange.
Xliff "choco install strawberryperl" 21:55
ugexe, choco?
ugexe its like a windows apt-get
Xliff *drool*
I'll have to find that.
Later.
Something in my environment is making zef puke on the fetching stage. This is for any module. 21:56
Missing bin, maybe?
awwaiid thanks Xliff . Next weekend I'm doing a getting-started tutorial and am practicing windows
ugexe i have an idea, i think its due to git:// vs https:// and if you have your git creds saved 21:57
Xliff No worries. I'm here if you need something tested.
ugexe, pretty sure I do.
skink ugexe, With those changes, panda-build no longer works 21:58
ugexe the ecosystem mangles the source-url of modules to https. you could try `zef --help`, edit the file listed next to "CONFIGURATION" so the first mirror of "ContentStorage -> p6c" so its ecosystem-api.p6c.org/projects.json 21:59
skink class Build, not class Builder 22:00
ugexe (or edit ~/.zef/store/p6c/packages.json where you s/^ git:// / https:// /)
MadcapJake rudi_s: but the whole point of using explicitly-manage for const char * is that it means that Perl 6 _will not_ deallocate the string, the programmer and the C API are responsible for that.
ugexe if that works then i'll have to make sure the source-url is always mangled... 22:01
rudi_s MadcapJake: The whole const char * makes no sense at all.
That was my main complaint and the reason why I removed it after discussion here.
MadcapJake rudi_s: What do you mean?
rudi_s MadcapJake: The argument "const char *" vs. explicitly-manage.
strcmp takes const char *, but perl6 can free the memory just fine after calling the function. 22:02
There should be no reason to use explictly-manage and a better way is the currently explained scoped variable.
MadcapJake ahh so you're saying that const does not necessarily mean you need to explicitly-manage, it's more about how a given function uses the string
rudi_s Yes. That's the first part. The second is, that there's no reason to use explictly-manage. 22:03
*and the scoped variable is a better solution.
22:03 rindolf left
MadcapJake Interesting, alrighty, thanks for the rundown! 22:04
rudi_s np
skink I guess I should only trigger the build method if we're not on Windows... 22:05
ugexe skink: whats the output when you just run `perl6 -Ilib Build.pm` 22:06
skink nothing
panda-build does work now 22:07
ugexe thats how you can debug it (just run it like a script, add debug statements)
er sorry its
perl6 -I. -MBuild -e 'Build.new.build($*CWD)' 22:08
skink I _think_ I can drop build-depends to LibraryMake, Crypt::Random with no depends 22:10
now that I've dropped Panda and Shell::Common 22:11
Xliff, pushed 22:15
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Xliff ugexe, Wild! Changing LibraryMake source-url to https fixed the problem for all of the dependencies. 22:26
ugexe Xliff: thanks for trying that. i'll add an option to zef to allow picking the git prefix used
Xliff skink: What native library is Crypt::Bcrypt looking for? 22:27
AHA! 22:29
ugexe: If zef is running under Windows you need to make sure you are looking in the right home dir.
ugexe it uses $*HOME, so it lets perl6 handle that
Xliff If I am on C:, it works because the packages.json file exists. 22:30
If I am on D:... it fails because the file DOESN'T exist in D:\Users\Cliff\.zef\store
skink %?RESOURCES<crypt_blowfish.dll>.Str 22:31
aka resources/crypt_blowfish.dll 22:32
Xliff >perl6 -e "say $*HOME" 22:33
"C:\Users\Cliff".IO
That is correct.
But still, somehow zef works if the shell is in a directory on C: 22:34
And fails if I am in D:
22:34 Begi left, espadrine left
ugexe hmm, i have a feeling its not zef 22:34
but %?RESOURCES
22:35 bjz left
Xliff skink: 22:35
===> Testing [FAIL]: Crypt::Bcrypt:ver('1.3')
Aborting due to test failure: Crypt::Bcrypt:ver('1.3')
22:35 wamba left
Xliff Cannot locate native library 'C:\Users\Cliff\.zef\store\p6-Crypt-Bcrypt.git\61c8 22:36
d043bad613c0189a9dc2c2cb8791be79ce84\resources\crypt_blowfish.dll': error 0xc1
Lib is instead installed at C:\Users\Cliff\.zef\tmp\p6-Crypt-Bcrypt.git\resources 22:37
Everything is awesome (and no, I'm not talking about the Lego movie) 22:38
www.voidtools.com/
skink If you copy the dll into that dir does it work?
Xliff Checking now.
22:39 RabidGravy left 22:40 perlawhirl joined, hjst left
Xliff Nope. dll is already located in that dir, too. 22:41
git pulled and still failing. 22:42
skink 0xC1 looks like a memory error 22:43
So it might be the lib's being found but failing to load
Xliff Could be.
skink: Is that DLL compiled for 64-bit?
skink I should probably have added 32 onto that eh? 22:44
22:44 perlawhirl left
skink It was 586 cross-compiled 22:44
Xliff OK.
I'm on a 64 bit machine and rakudo is compiled 64 bit, so I was wondering if that mattered.
skink 32bit libs should work 22:49
22:52 BenGoldberg left
skink Also there's -cc and -gcc for mingw and I'm not sure if that makes a huge difference 22:53
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Xliff kk 22:53
So maybe it is a memory thing. 22:54
23:05 bjz left 23:12 _nadim left
timotimo there must be something i'm missing 23:13
why can't i ctrl-c out of a loop in bash? 23:14
Xliff You sure the BRK key is set to ^C? 23:17
Juerd Sometimes you can ^C a loop in bash, sometimes not. I've never figured out why. 23:18
But one option is ^Z and then kill %1
ugexe Xliff: added optional forcing https for github urls when using `git`. thanks for tracking that problem down 23:20
geekosaur bash sometimes does this thing where it kills the current iteration and goes on to the next. 23:21
Xliff ugexe: Might also want to look into the C:, D: issue. 23:22
I'm pretty sure I'm also experiencing that. I've done several tests. 23:23
I have confirmed that $*HOME is correct.
ugexe what is the path shown next to "CONFIGURATION" when you run `zef` from D: and from C:? 23:24
er when you run `zef --help`
Xliff One sec.
23:25 dvinciguerra_ left
Xliff D: -> CONFIGURATION D:\SVN\Github\rakudobrew\moar-nom\install\share\perl6\site\resources\1F29702A476391AE0318E060ADE9CA2BB2B0F993.json 23:25
C: -> CONFIGURATION D:\SVN\Github\rakudobrew\moar-nom\install\share\perl6\site\resources\1F29702A476391AE0318E060ADE9CA2BB2B0F993.json 23:26
ugexe hmm, but the error you encounter is trying to load it from C; somewhere correct? 23:29
(seems somewhere a .IO.absolute is used when it doesnt really know its volume) 23:31
(unrelated) also worth pointing out that usually one should use $path.IO.parent instead of $path.IO.dirname in most cases, as .parent retains the volume on windows 23:34
Xliff Anyone have suggestions on a more modern X11 editor? 23:37
gvim is giving me pains.
ugexe: The error I am encountering is as follows: If I run zef from C: the fetch stage works. If I run it from any other drive, the fetch stage fails. 23:38
awwaiid Xliff: you could try Atom 23:39
ugexe Xliff: oh ok. that should be enough for me to track it down
Xliff awwaiid: Is that in apt?
ugexe i use sublime text
awwaiid sadly no, but easy to get. download .db from atom.io/ 23:40
Xliff I do too. It's not ported to Linux, is it?
awwaiid Sublime does have a linux build. Atom is practically a clone initially, though is growing into being much more
er, a .deb not a .db 23:41
Xliff awwaiid, thanks. Downloading now.
Heh! I knew what you meant ^_-
awwaiid Xliff: hm. my apt-get does have atom after all
oh wait, maybe that's because I installed the .deb. confusing 23:42
Xliff Heh
geekosaur yeh, atom doesn't have a repo as yet, just download the deb periodically :/
Xliff Nooo! No 32 bit version!?
timotimo o_O 23:43
why are you limited to 32bits, you poor soul?
Xliff It's a VM
timotimo all my vms have been 64bit so far :o 23:44
awwaiid I don't even run 32 bits in vms anymore :)
Xliff I could update to a 64 bit VM, I guess.
But the one I am running is long in the tooth. However it has served me very well.
I am hesitant to throw it under the bus.
timotimo that's even less problematic with a vm compared to a hardware machine :P 23:45
awwaiid I'm sure htere are lots of other editors 23:47
like gnome-edit or something like that
timotimo gedit is the name 23:48
geany isn't bad, all things considered
and kate is also not bad
skink Xliff, Yeah, I built the lib wrong 23:49
23:49 khisanth_ left, BenGoldberg left
skink Checking with a friend atm 23:49
Xliff skink, OK 23:50
skink pushed a new dll 23:51
notably larger this time
Xliff *sigh* 23:52
Docker only for 64 bit, which means atom only for 64 bit.
Looks like the lifespan of this VM is growing short. :P
23:53 djbkd left
Xliff finds Sublime Text for Linux and dances. 23:54
skink Emacs actually runs well on Windows 23:57
Xliff, So... the dll from before wasn't actually being built as a shared library I don't think :) 23:58
ZoffixWin Sublime sucks for P6
skink I manually built it this time instead of modifying the build script

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