»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
timotimo worst case i'd create a throw-away scalar and find its .VAR.type or .VAR.of or what it's called 00:00
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timotimo hmm 00:07
m: my Mu $foo := Metamodel::CoercionHOW.new_type(Str, Any); say $foo 00:09
camelia rakudo-moar be4e43: OUTPUT«(Str(Any))␤»
timotimo well, that looks good enough. may want to have that stashed away somewhere for re-use, though 00:10
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raydiak .u ▶ 01:24
yoleaux U+25B6 BLACK RIGHT-POINTING TRIANGLE [So] (▶)
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jberger Zoffix: o/ 01:54
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Zoffix Hey all. jberger is trying to calculate pi using monte carlo method. I tried to write it with .race, but it was slower than single-thread way. Now, I rewrote it with Promises, but it *still* doesn't offer any speed improvement on my 4-core box. Any idea why? Is my code wrong: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/ae7bcf0...917238ff1a 01:55
m: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/ae7bcf0...917238ff1a
camelia rakudo-moar be4e43: OUTPUT«3.13798␤»
jberger for anyone interested in the actual math (not that its really that hard if you think about it) here is a link I found mathfaculty.fullerton.edu/mathews/n...pimod.html 01:56
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Zoffix Oh, HAHAHA. 01:58
jberger, try it out. I set my VM I'm running this on to use just one core :P
jberger hahahaha
Zoffix To that point, .race probably works too :P 01:59
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jberger yeah 02:02
it does
or at least I see the cores all spinning
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Zoffix I think it's still buggy though. 02:03
m: sleep 1 for ^4 .race: :1batch; say now - INIT now;
jberger well we are going to hit the amount of good randomness in the computer at some point
camelia rakudo-moar be4e43: OUTPUT«1.008283␤»
Zoffix What about my code? Does it offer speed increase when you set CORES to 4 vs 1? I'm not seeing any difference when I run it on Windows 10 02:04
jberger yeah 02:06
Zoffix m: await ^4 .map: { start sleep 1}; say now - INIT now
camelia rakudo-moar be4e43: OUTPUT«1.0044573␤»
jberger I get 11.5s with my original
6.5 for yours (race)
just the one liners
Zoffix I meant this one: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/ae7bcf0...917238ff1a 02:07
jberger on TIMES=800_000
argh, you actually want me to download it .... :p
Zoffix Well, I can use camelia, I guess 02:08
m: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/ae7bcf0...917238ff1a 02:09
camelia rakudo-moar be4e43: OUTPUT«3.139072␤15.3952821␤»
Zoffix m: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/4e0b776...019736dbf7
camelia rakudo-moar be4e43: OUTPUT«3.1397␤17.11032489␤» 02:10
jberger no I'm running it now
mspo camelia needs , stats=true to give timings :)
jberger when I set CORES=1 I still see my cores jump up
Zoffix oh
jberger I think to be a real test CORES=1 shouldn't try to thread it 02:11
Zoffix: that one doesn't nearly scale though 02:12
an it doesn't actually utilize the cores well either
the race one does much better at showing up in htop
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Zoffix I found the problem. 02:18
m: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/cd814df...935e71ad52
camelia rakudo-moar be4e43: OUTPUT«3.14372␤2.19685761␤»
Zoffix m: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/be7b404...7e17b82910
camelia rakudo-moar be4e43: OUTPUT«3.14252␤1.6769645␤»
Zoffix The promises were returning a lazy list and it's only when I attempted to get at the results did all the calculations were happening.
Doesn't explain why all 4 cores were spinning up though, before I made it eager 02:19
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Zoffix ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ a puzzle for another day 02:19
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jberger ah 02:21
well thanks anyway
and if you like the example you are welcome to post about it, it was why I asked you in the first place 02:22
or don't, either way
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Zoffix ugexe, ah, I was using unspace wrong. I was doing .foo \␤.bar and that extra space before the backslash was giving trouble (RE: stackoverflow.com/questions/3742354...x/37425772 ) 03:34
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dalek osystem: 0b6c611 | (Richard Hainsworth)++ | META.list:
Adding Algorithm::Tarjan to ecosystem

Provides a method for finding cycles in a directed graph. See hhtps://github.com/finanalyst/p6-Algorithm-Tarjan		 04:00
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finanalyst just tried adding a module to ecosystem 'Algorithm::Tarjan'. Not sure if I have done this correctly. 04:01
I may have added directly to the Meta list without going through the pull request process. 04:03
I'm still trying to figure out the git process
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Zoffix Looks fine to me. 04:11
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diakopter .u :smile_cat: 04:22
yoleaux U+003A COLON [Po] (:)
U+005F LOW LINE [Pc] (_)
U+0061 LATIN SMALL LETTER A [Ll] (a)
Zoffix .u 😿
yoleaux U+1F63F CRYING CAT FACE [So] (😿)
Zoffix .u cat face
yoleaux U+1F431 CAT FACE [So] (🐱)
diakopter heh
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RabidGravy boom 07:21
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RabidGravy why *does* github call the generated LICENSE file that? I'd never thought about it before, but in english that is the verb rather than the noun 08:16
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huf no, license is also the noun 08:20
Juerd RabidGravy: US English uses the spelling 'license', sometimes 'licence', for both the noun and the verb, unlike advice/advise which is noun/verb in both UK and US English. 08:23
RabidGravy huf, only in certain dictionaries
Juerd But, why would having a verb in a file name be an issue? README is neither, but does have a verb. 08:24
huf RabidGravy: so? presumably whoever named the file was using one of those dictionaries 08:25
everyone gets to pick and choose :)
Juerd And sometimes it's called COPYING instead of LICENSE
dalek osystem: 1c0a6fb | palapitta++ | META.list:
Movieinfo

to get movie info from omdb
osystem: 041e4df | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
Merge pull request #211 from palapitta/patch-3

Movieinfo
huf Juerd: but COP isnt a verb!
(it is...) 08:26
Juerd huf: Makes me wonder what ying is.
huf yin + yang finally combined
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Juerd That sounds slightly apocalyptical... 08:27
huf yep
the world *is* ending, it's just taking its sweet time about it 08:28
Juerd END { fork }
Oh, hm, the fork will end just as well
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Juerd Does Perl 6 has a way to restart your program? The ultimate 'goto 10'? 08:29
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Juerd In Perl 5 I'd probably cheat with "exec $0" and hope both parts dwim. 08:29
RabidGravy I think Zoffix was playing with something like that
github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-Bailad...oRestarter 08:31
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Juerd That's managed externally with kill 08:33
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finanalyst module question: I put a 32x32 png in library logotype, but the logo did not show up in the module directory. Is meta info needed? 09:27
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finanalyst s/library/directory/ 09:28
RabidGravy don't think so
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RabidGravy ah logo_32x32.png apparently 09:29
(having just examined one where it does show)
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ab6tract o/ #perl6 09:32
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ab6tract i'm happy to report some great progress has been made on the Sereal port! 09:32
i'd like to make it available both with a C backend and a PP one 09:34
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lizmat timotimo: thanks for the tip, but for some reason I get locally: 09:36
$ 6 'my Mu $foo := Metamodel::CoercionHOW.new_type(Str, Any); say $foo'
Method 'shortname' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::CoercionHOW'
in block <unit> at -e line 1
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lizmat The same I get with: 09:37
$ 6 'my Mu $a = Str(Any); say $a'
Method 'shortname' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::CoercionHOW'
in block <unit> at -e line 1
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lizmat it was that error that made me revert the patch 09:38
ab6tract but I'm running into some confusion around how to reference subroutines in one role that will later get defined in a different role 09:43
i thought stubbing them in role A and defining them in role B and mixing them in 'does A does B' order would resolve it, but at run-time the stubs still get run 09:44
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llfourn .tell nine hoelzro++ has been able to trigger the precomp bug on the first run through with the right dependency tree (in case you missed it) RT #128268 10:00
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=128268
yoleaux llfourn: I'll pass your message to nine.
ab6tract there is always the EVAL option, but i was hoping for something less dirty 10:04
lizmat timotimo: ah, missed a commit :-) 10:14
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masak good afternoon, #perl6 10:26
Ven o/ masak
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lizmat masak o/ 10:29
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timotimo Zoffix: currently, invocation requires two mallocs; one for the lexical environment, one for the space where all the register contents go. malloc will serialize access with locking. if you have an invocation-heavy thing inside your race (things not very well inlined, calls that are in there to make race work, ...) it'll spend most of its time spinning trying to acquire that lock 10:44
ab6tract ive decided to make the backend distinction an environment setting, so i can punt it all to compile time and use needs/import :D 10:45
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Zoffix timotimo, invocation is what? method calls? 11:11
lizmat anything with () or a method call (which is () under the hood) 11:13
timotimo Zoffix: anything that creates a call frame, really 11:14
if things go bad, even a pair of curlies inside a code body can cause an invocation to happen
it's something jnthn is very much looking into making faster right now
Zoffix :S that makes .race kinda not very racy, considering most of the things would have () in them :/
At least it explains why I had 2x speed increase when I was using 4x the cores.
timotimo of course. that resource contention is going to go away 11:15
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Zoffix Ah, palapitta reminds me of a young me. Ill-designed, untested code released for fun rather than utility. 11:27
Considering their first module was an implementation of the weather API I'm discussing in my workshop, I guess I'm at least partially responsible 😿 11:28
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masak remind me -- does Perl 6 have something like Python's math.hypot ? 11:40
math.hypot(x, y) gives back math.sqrt(x * x + y * y)
Zoffix use NativeCall ... :P 11:41
BenGoldberg I don't think there is one. 11:42
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Zoffix m: use NativeCall; sub hypot(num64, num64 --> num64) is native {}; say hypot 3e0, 4e0 11:43
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«5␤»
Zoffix m: sub hypot {sqrt $^a²+$^b²}(3, 4).say 11:45
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«5␤»
dogbert17 (x+yi).abs # perhaps 11:49
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dogbert17 m: say (3+4i).abs 11:50
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«5␤»
masak heh :)
anonymous :o what sorcery is that
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masak the magic of complex arithmetic 11:50
Zoffix m: say (25+666i).abs 11:51
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«666.469054045272␤»
masak "abs($real)" can be seen as "the distance from 0 to the number $real"
Zoffix m: sub hypot {sqrt $^a²+$^b²}(25, 666).say
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«666.469054045272␤»
Zoffix m: say 3+4i
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«3+4i␤»
masak this notion can be extended to the complex numbers, which pulls in the Pythagorean Theroem as a side effect
Zoffix: you're familiar with complex numbers? 11:52
Zoffix only that i is sqrt(-1)
masak heh :)
it is, yes
m: sqrt(-1 + 0i)
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/oHWXGCvXH4:␤Useless use of "sqrt(-1 + 0i)" in expression "sqrt(-1 + 0i)" in sink context (line 1)␤»
masak m: say sqrt(-1 + 0i)
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«0+1i␤»
dogbert17 a recent addition to the docs: doc.perl6.org/type/Complex#method_abs 11:53
masak Zoffix: I think the best way to think about the complex numbers is that they "fix" the fundamental theorem of algebra 11:54
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masak Zoffix: with only the real numbers, a degree-2 polynomial can have *up to* 2 roots, a degree-5 polynomial can have *up to* 5 roots, etc 11:54
Zoffix: with the complex numbers, a degree-N polynomial has *exactly* N roots 11:55
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masak which, needless to say, is very neat and pretty 11:55
Zoffix Oh, coolk
masak and when you put it like that, it's a minor miracle that setting `i := sqrt(-1)` fixes all that 11:56
it fixes it for *all* the polynomials. all the possible ones.
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Zoffix Ohhh, k, now I get why (3+4i).abs works :D 11:56
masak what made it click? :) 11:57
Zoffix hehe, neat :D dogbert17++
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dogbert17 glad to be able to help 11:57
Zoffix I was thinking of it as "3" plus some other number. What made it click is realizing it's 3 with 4 on the imaginary plane and then you can see the distance to it would by a hypotenuse of a right triangle
masak I'm not a huge fan of abusing complex numbers as mere Cartesian coordinates 11:58
Zoffix That's what made it click :)
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dogbert17 .seen lizamt 12:00
yoleaux I haven't seen lizamt around.
dogbert17 .seen lizmat
yoleaux I saw lizmat 11:13Z in #perl6: <lizmat> anything with () or a method call (which is () under the hood)
lizmat is still here 12:01
but about to get some fresh air
dogbert17 lizmat: I have some draft documentation for Hash.keyof. is it in touch with reality? gist.github.com/dogbert17/447575b4...0bb754fadd
masak lizmat: go go go! fresh air is important! :) 12:02
lizmat say %h1.keyof; # (Any) # Str(Any) ??
jnthn m: say Str(Any)
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(Str(Any))␤»
jnthn lizmat: I fixed ^^ last night... :)
lizmat yeah, noticed this moarn
jnthn :) 12:03
pochi m: sub foo() returns Str, Int { return "hello", 42 }
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/hn3Banv5ec␤Missing block␤at /tmp/hn3Banv5ec:1␤------> 3sub foo() returns Str7⏏5, Int { return "hello", 42 }␤ expecting any of:␤ new name to be defined␤»
pochi is there a way to specify a mixed return type? 12:04
jnthn pochi: One way is to declare a `subset StrOrInt where Str | Int;` and then use it as the return type
psch m: sub f { return "hello", 42 }; f().WHAT.say 12:05
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(List)␤»
psch pochi: you don't seem to be returning something mixed?
lizmat pochi: in p6 you only ever return one thing
and if it has comma's in it, it's a List
afk&
pochi hm, ok, but can I put constraints on the contents of List then?
lizmat I think that's specced, but not implemented yet 12:06
jnthn?
llfourn a junction?
lizmat really afk&
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llfourn m: sub foo() returns Str|Int { return "hello", 42 }; foo(); 12:06
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/V63DQbH1yr␤Missing block␤at /tmp/V63DQbH1yr:1␤------> 3sub foo() returns Str7⏏5|Int { return "hello", 42 }; foo();␤ expecting any of:␤ new name to be defined␤»
jnthn Oh, you want to pattern match what's in a list...
pochi yes
llfourn m: sub foo() returns :(Str,Int) { return "hello", 42 }; foo(); 12:07
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/cdu_zP1NBF␤Malformed trait␤at /tmp/cdu_zP1NBF:1␤------> 3sub foo() returns7⏏5 :(Str,Int) { return "hello", 42 }; foo(␤»
llfourn m: sub foo() returns List where { $_ ~~ :(Str,Int) } { return "hello", 42 }; foo();
dogbert17 lizmat++ thx for the feedback
jnthn m: subset IS where :(Int, Str); sub foo() returns IS { (4.2, 'hi') }; say foo
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Type check failed for return value; expected IS but got List ($(4.2, "hi"))␤ in sub foo at /tmp/MTaWmxTvNo line 1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/MTaWmxTvNo line 1␤␤»
jnthn m: subset IS where :(Int, Str); sub foo() returns IS { (4, 'hi') }; say foo
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(4 hi)␤»
llfourn is my last message flashing for anyone else? 12:08
pochi it's flashing :-)
Zoffix No, but I see a null char
jnthn llfourn: No, white text on grey background for me :)
llfourn o.o
pochi what the 'where :()' syntax? 12:09
*what's
jnthn :(...) is a signature literal
pochi ah
thank you :-)
jnthn And subest Foo where <conditon here>; is a refinement type
Zoffix FWIW, I opened a ticket a few days about vis-a-vis returning Int|Str and ther like: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=128262
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jnthn Zoffix: Yeah, confusing error... :) 12:09
Compiler's trying to be helpful and ends up being the opposite. :) 12:10
m: sub foo() returns Itn { }
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/DbnqYz0xve␤Invalid typename 'Itn'. Did you mean 'Int'?␤at /tmp/DbnqYz0xve:1␤------> 3sub foo() returns Itn7⏏5 { }␤»
jnthn m: sub foo() returns Int|Str { }
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/nZq9Zg2VRW␤Missing block␤at /tmp/nZq9Zg2VRW:1␤------> 3sub foo() returns Int7⏏5|Str { }␤ expecting any of:␤ new name to be defined␤»
jnthn Oh, it wasn't that one? 12:11
Zoffix m: sub foo(--> Int|Str) { }
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/hicSjxwiOM␤Type 'Int' is not declared. Did you mean 'int'?␤at /tmp/hicSjxwiOM:1␤------> 3sub foo(--> Int7⏏5|Str) { }␤»
jnthn Oh, with -->
Yeah, agree that wants some atention
*attention
llfourn m: sub (Int|Str $var) { }; # I also try and do this sometimes
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No compile-time value for Str␤»
jnthn o.O 12:12
llfourn also I even try regex literals :P
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jnthn Trouble with that one is that |foo is capture syntax inside a signature :) 12:12
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llfourn m: multi regex-dispatch(/fo+/) { }; multi regex-dispatch(/ba+/) {}; regex-dispatch("foo"); #something like 12:13
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/go3EVCCVwd␤Calling regex-dispatch(Str) will never work with any of these multi signatures:␤ (Int $ where { ... }) ␤ (Int $ where { ... })␤at /tmp/go3EVCCVwd:1␤------> 3) { }; multi regex-dispat…»
jnthn oh hah, I bet I can guess... It sees "(Int |Str" and declares a symbol Str that the capture will be bound in to. This in turn clobbers the Str symbol needed to produce the parse error that follows :P
llfourn ahh 12:14
psch m: sub f($a, ::($a) $b) { }; f(Int|Str, "foo") # /o\
camelia ( no output )
jnthn That's pretty amusing. But yeah, if it's not already RT'd please do; the current error helps nobody..
llfourn okie doke
my last RT (5 mins ago) didn't go so well. Lets see if I can get it done in one email this time. 12:15
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jnthn :) 12:18
lunch &
dogbert17 m: sub foo() returns IntStr { return IntStr.new(42, "hello") }; say foo().perl 12:19
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«IntStr.new(42, "hello")␤»
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dalek c: 32541e4 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Hash.pod:
Added docs for method keyof in class Hash. lizmat++, jnthn++
 12:35
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dalek c: 49f7f34 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Signature.pod:
get `where` into the index
 12:58
c: 3948b65 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Signature.pod:
get `where` into the index
12:59 BenGoldberg left 13:00 BenGoldberg joined 13:07 pierre joined 13:10 jjido left, pierre left 13:13 kaare_ left
grondilu m: say (my $).VAR.name; 13:16
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«$␤»
grondilu m: say class { has $.x }.VAR.name
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class '<anon|57888480>'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/IRkz3SpHWR line 1␤␤»
13:16 pierre joined
grondilu m: say class { has $.x }.x.VAR.name 13:16
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a type object␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/aqDkPFY7Nf line 1␤␤»
pochi $.x is a method that operates on $!x 13:19
psch m: say class { has $.x }.new(:2x)x.VAR.name
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5\$_' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/9lF534opPv line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/9lF534opPv line 1␤␤»
psch m: say class { has $.x }.new(:2x).x.VAR.name
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/egiKpG4qqE line 1␤␤»
13:20 BenGoldberg left
Zoffix m: say class { has $.x }.new(:2x).x.VAR.^name 13:20
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Int␤»
psch m: say class { has $.x }.new(:2x).x.name
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/jR7xM3jJzE line 1␤␤»
psch m: say class { has $.x }.new(:2x).x.VAR.VAR.name
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/XmYzWLUUwC line 1␤␤»
psch vOv
not even sure what's being looked for :)
jnthn m: say class { has $.x is rw }.new(:2x).x.name
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Method 'name' not found for invocant of class 'Int'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/gjscsjLZXL line 1␤␤»
jnthn m: say class { has $.x is rw }.new(:2x).x.VAR.name 13:21
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«$!x␤»
jnthn Maybe that? :)
Zoffix :o
psch oh, right, no rw means no container there i suppose
jnthn Yeah, we take the thing out of its container
When no "is rw"
grondilu what's :2x? 13:23
m: say :2x
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'x' passed␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Ba1CO326bj line 1␤␤»
pochi :x(2)
psch m: say (:2x).WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(Pair)␤»
psch m: say (:2x).perl
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«:x(2)␤»
grondilu oh, that's a thing? Ok.
jnthn Most often shows up as things like :1st
psch m: $_ = "foo foo"; s:2nd/foo/bar/; .say
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«foo bar␤»
Zoffix or :42days :)
Zoffix uses it for everything 13:24
grondilu can be useful for physical units and stuff
dalek c: fffe595 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/typesystem.pod:
link to definition of where
 13:26
Zoffix If anyone has a penchant for long technical documents and has interest in the new IRC::Client, I welcome feedback for my new design: github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-IRC-Cl...01-main.md 13:27
AlexDaniel, ^ you had some interest in it awhile back.
13:27 aries_liuxueyang left
AlexDaniel yaaay 13:28
Zoffix: by the way, what's up with the memory leaks and stuff?
Zoffix: have you found any way to localize it?
Zoffix No, I chose to go with "ignore it for now and hope someone fixes it" route.
And they were before jnthn++'s frame work, so *shrug* they may not be there any more for all I know. 13:29
AlexDaniel because, you know… your module can be 100% gold but nobody is going to start using it because of such problems :(
Zoffix: OK I'll read that and let you know what I think 13:30
jnthn Were they before or after the big gen2 leak fix in Moar also? 13:31
That was likely to blame for a lot of leakage in longer-running things.
Zoffix I'm 85% they were in this version: This is Rakudo version 2016.04-117-g7db7b46 built on MoarVM version 2016.04
*85% sure 13:32
AlexDaniel Zoffix: “provide a programmatic interface to IRC” it sound like a bot, why not say that it is for creating bots? Or are you hoping that people will create IRC clients on top of that? 13:33
s
jnthn Zoffix: 7f2a6fa8416 was the fix in question
Zoffix: Which git describes itself as 2016.03-96-g7f2a6fa, so it's maybe not that
Zoffix AlexDaniel, they can if they want to. I might create one if I get bored enough :P 13:34
call it 6IRC 13:35
13:35 RabidGravy joined
Zoffix with a stylzed logo of half a butterfly seen behind IRC :P 13:35
jnthn Zoffix: If it still leaks, please do file a report though. I've spent quite some effort on fixing/building stuff that makes it easier to hunt leaks down. :)
13:35 BenGoldberg joined
Zoffix jnthn, k :) 13:35
timotimo is sitting outside on a little (actually, big) picnic blanket :3 13:36
jnthn timotimo: nice :)
Hope you don't have thunderstorms forecast to start imminently like here ;-)
AlexDaniel Zoffix: “A program may have multiple Client Objects, but each of them can be connected only to one IRC server.” why? 13:37
dalek osystem: 771c2a4 | yowcow++ | META.list:
add Digest::MurmurHash3
osystem: 08c8b73 | titsuki++ | META.list:
Merge pull request #212 from yowcow/add-digest-murmurhash3

Add Digest::MurmurHash3
timotimo AlexDaniel: because clients have state, like what channels they have been joined to, what flags they have, realname nickname, ... 13:38
Zoffix AlexDaniel, simpler to implement.
gfldex m: sub f(&c where :(Int, Str)) { say c(10, 'ten') }; sub g(Int $i, Str $s){ $s ~ $i }; f(&g);
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Constraint type check failed for parameter '&c'␤ in sub f at /tmp/rkBIxNJdUa line 1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/rkBIxNJdUa line 1␤␤»
timotimo makes sense to have that per Client object
Zoffix AlexDaniel, also, you have nicks and usernames that likely are different on different servers
psch m: sub f(&c:(Int, Str)) { say c(10, 'ten') }; sub g(Int $i, Str $s){ $s ~ $i }; f(&g); 13:39
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«ten10␤»
AlexDaniel yeah but if I wanted to create a bot that will connect to multiple servers at the same time, things will become seriously hard for me
Zoffix Like what? 13:40
As in, what is a specific area of hardness? 13:41
start IRC::Client.new(:server<foo.net>).run; start IRC::Client.new(:server<bar.net>).run;
timotimo seriously hard seems like a really big overstatement here 13:42
AlexDaniel unnecessarily hard is probably a better way to describe it
Zoffix my $stuff-that-does-things = IRC::Client::Plugin::Whatever.new; start { IRC::Client.new(:server($_), :plugins($stuff-that-does-thigns)).run } for <foo.net bar.net>;
AlexDaniel Zoffix: then what? I want to have the same state between several servers, but as far as I can see each plugin is probably going to be on its own 13:43
e.g. if it's a factoid, for example
and also want no code duplication, because you know…
my proposed solution was to just add a server:channel to the list of channels to join, and that's it. You handle everything else 13:44
Zoffix AlexDaniel, in the example above, you have just one plugin object. If it's a factoid, it'd be using the same DB.
BenGoldberg This isn't python, people. It's allowable to have more than one solution to a problem. 13:45
Zoffix AlexDaniel, I don't see how such a solution would handle, say, using different nicks on different servers 13:46
timotimo especially since you don't actually have full control over your nickname, or what channels you're in
AlexDaniel Zoffix: $.irc.nick: 'ZofBot', 'ZofBot_', 'ZofBot__'; changes the nickname on all servers
Zoffix: $.irc.nick: 'ZofBot', 'ZofBot_', 'ZofBot__', :server(‘XXX’); changes the nickname on some particular server
Zoffix AlexDaniel, what about $.irc.send: where => '#perl6', what => 'Hello'? What about $.irc.channel('#perl6').has: 'Zoffix'? 13:47
You can add :server() to all of them sure, but that just adds complexity to the implementation and the docs, which I don't see justified when the alternative is the code example above.
AlexDaniel Zoffix: there are several possible solutions to this one. For example, if you're on the same channel on several servers, then it may turn into something like ‘#perl6<freenode>’ 13:48
Zoffix And you can determine which server you're on by calling $.irc.server (I didn't spec it, but all the attributes will be available)
AlexDaniel Zoffix: otherwise it's just ‘#perl6’ and it DWIMs
Zoffix: I'm not sure why the implementation has to be easy for you and not for the user 13:49
Zoffix AlexDaniel, I don't see your proposal as easier than start { IRC::Client.new(:server($_), :plugins($stuff-that-does-thigns)).run } for <foo.net bar.net>; 13:50
AlexDaniel Zoffix: supplying :server(…) when you need it is not a rocket science
Zoffix AlexDaniel, but it's data duplication.
Especially within a plugin, that doesn't need to know what server it's on.
dalek c: 5b29667 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Type/Signature.pod:
show how to constrain function references
pochi m: enum Days ( Sat => 6, Sun => 7 ); my %t = (Sat => "Saturday", Sun => "Sunday"); say %t.keys>>.Int 13:51
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5Sat' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/U3YbVb8nzI line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/U3YbVb8nzI line 1␤␤»
timotimo what about servers that allow < > in their channel names?
AlexDaniel if it doesn't need to know, then there's no :server stuff in the code.
timotimo: turn it into an object if that's the case, not a big deal
make it a pair or something
pochi how do I used enums as has keys? 13:53
*use even 13:54
psch m: enum Foo < bar baz >; my %h{Any}; %h{bar} = 1; say %h.perl; say %h.keys[0].WHAT 13:55
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(my Any %{Any} = Foo::bar => 1)␤(Foo)␤»
gfldex m: enum Days ( Sat => 6, Sun => 7 ); my %t{Days} = (Sat => "Saturday", Sun => "Sunday"); say %t.keys>>.Int
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding key; expected Days but got Str ("Sat")␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/KbAoNGnygb line 1␤␤»
psch m: enum Foo < bar baz >; my %h{Any}; %h{bar} = 1; say %h.perl; say %h.keys[0].value
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(my Any %{Any} = Foo::bar => 1)␤0␤»
psch m: enum Foo < bar baz >; my %h{Any}; %h{bar} = 1; say %h.perl; say %h.keys[0].Int
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(my Any %{Any} = Foo::bar => 1)␤0␤»
Zoffix AlexDaniel, what I mean is if I have a plugin that does, say, irc-privmsg-me ($msg) { $.irc.send: where => '#perl6', what => "$msg.nick() is messaging me!" }; That plugin will be inherently broken the moment your client connects to multiple servers. The correct way to write it might be irc-privmsg-me ($msg) { $.irc.send: where => '#perl6', server => $msg.server, what => "$msg.nick() is messaging me!" }; Which (a) is unneccesarry complexity (b) will
result in some plugins being broken because users didn't/forgot to add the essentially-mandatory `server` argument.
gfldex m: enum Days ( Sat => 6, Sun => 7 ); my %t{Days} = (Sat, "Saturday", Sun, "Sunday"); say %t.keys>>.Int 13:57
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(6 7)␤»
gfldex m: enum Days ( Sat => 6, Sun => 7 ); my %t{Days} = (Sat, "Saturday", Sun, "Sunday"); say %t.keys
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(Sat Sun)␤»
Zoffix And, say, $.irc.channel('#perl6').topic; would require a mandatory server argument too, except it won't be available just anywhere. You have to fetch from some $msg or pass it hardcoded.
13:58 setty1 left
gfldex m: enum Days ( Sat => 6, Sun => 7 ); my %t{Days} = (Pair.new(Sat, "Saturday"), Pair.new(Sun, "Sunday")); say %t.keys 13:58
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(Sat Sun)␤»
gfldex pochi: ^^^
pochi so it's => that ruins it? :-)
Zoffix It quotes it
gfldex m: dd 6 => "foo"
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«6 => "foo"␤»
AlexDaniel Zoffix: so basically what you're saying is that if at some point I decide to add a channel on another server to the list of channels to join, I have to create another Client object, configure it the same way, then wrap all commands with for-s, start using a database so that plugins inside different Client objects have the same data… I'm pretty sure that the list does not stop here. Not that you're wrong, a lot of irc modules do exactly
the same thing, but I'm not sure why your new one cannot be better in that respect.
13:59 setty1 joined
pochi right 13:59
psch m: enum Days ( Sat => 6, Sun => 7 ); my %t{Days} = Sat, "Saturday", Sun, "Sunday"; say %t.keys
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(Sat Sun)␤»
tailgate Can a perl6 class be a singleton? i.e. instantiated once and only holding static members?
psch tailgate: i'd rather make .new die and only use class variables instead of instance variables 14:00
tailgate: although that's more a fully static class than a singleton
well, not quite in the Java sense of "static" :)
14:02 johnchalekson left
tailgate psch: fully static works for me. Is there an example? 14:02
dalek osystem: b347748 | (Shoichi Kaji)++ | META.list:
Add IO::TailFile to ecosystem

See github.com/skaji/perl6-tail
gfldex m: dd 1/2 => "foo"
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«0.5 => "foo"␤»
gfldex I take it the fat arrow doesn't autoquote if the LHS is a Numeric? 14:03
psch m: class A { my $foo; method foo is rw { $foo }; method new { die "can't instantiate this" }; }; A.foo = "bar"; say A.foo
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«bar␤»
psch tailgate: ^^^ something like that, probably. you can of course also use getter/setter instead of an rw method
and, well, you don't really need the &die in .new either 14:04
because all "my" declarations are shared between instances as well 14:05
AlexDaniel Zoffix: I don't think that your example is very realistic. How often do you want to send a message to some specific channel on some specific server, and you want it to be hardcoded? That's a bit weird. Like, look at camelia or any other bot, that's a rare thing to have. And if you want to do that – sure, it is “potentially” broken, which means that if you join the same channel on two different servers then your module will probably
throw a warning and that's it. If you don't, then you wont even notice it
psch so if you eventually discover that you do need un-shared state between instances you could also do that... vOv
14:05 keix joined
AlexDaniel Zoffix: and again, adding one parameter is easy. Reworking your whole code base is hard. 14:06
gfldex m: my $signle = Any but role :: { has $.foo; method new(){die 'nope'}}; dd $signle; $single.new; 14:07
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/ZYVwgAxdYH␤Variable '$single' is not declared. Did you mean '$signle'?␤at /tmp/ZYVwgAxdYH:1␤------> 3 method new(){die 'nope'}}; dd $signle; 7⏏5$single.new;␤»
dalek k-simple: 1f7c486 | finanalyst++ | / (3 files):
get-active method to combobox
k-simple: 30ec795 | RabidGravy++ | / (3 files):
Merge pull request #39 from finanalyst/master

get-active method to combobox
gfldex tailgate: if you don't want to introduce a type name for your singleton ^^^
m: my $single = Any but role :: { has $.foo; method new(){die 'nope'}}; dd $single; $single.new; 14:08
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Any+{<anon|81365312>} $single = Any+{<anon|81365312>}␤nope␤ in method new at /tmp/kZswVNFiZh line 1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/kZswVNFiZh line 1␤␤»
Zoffix AlexDaniel, the hardcoded channel is irrelevant. The issue is the mandatory requirement to include :server
gfldex works better without typos ofc
Zoffix Include it everywhere
I'm not sure how that qualifies as making things easy. 14:09
AlexDaniel Zoffix: it's not mandatory if you are not joining the same channel on multiple servers
and if you do, then you just add one parameter instead of reworking your whole code
Zoffix Then whether your plugin is broken depends entirely on which channels you care to join? What about plugins that are released into the ecosystem. It become mandatory for them 14:10
AlexDaniel only if they're trying to send messages to some specific channels
Zoffix There's only one for-s wrap involved: the instantiation of the IRC::Client objects. The plugins are single objects used by all the clients. I'm not sure what you mean by having to add a database 14:11
AlexDaniel replying to the same channel works everywhere
14:14 pmurias joined
pmurias hi 14:14
Zoffix The only issue I can see is ensuring your plugin is operating in a threadsafe way, since you now have several clients in several threads
\o
AlexDaniel Zoffix: OK so you're saying that using the same plugin object in several clients is supposed to work better? 14:15
you may be right, but it sounds a little bit weird
14:17 mohae joined
Zoffix It just seems more robust and much easier to use. I don't need to worry about shoving a server everywhere in my code and I don't have to worry that author Joseph Smith forgot to add a server argument in their plugin. 14:18
The $.irc.channel('...') stuff would have to to require a mandatory server argument, for example
AlexDaniel yeah sure you don't have to care about stuff that you don't support, I'm not arguing that
… but to me it feels like using more than one server should be supported, at least in some sense 14:19
14:19 BenGoldberg left
Zoffix It is 😜 just instantiate multiple IRC::Clients 14:20
AlexDaniel Zoffix: sounds like torturing myself and not the implementor of IRC::Client and its plugins 14:21
it's fine, I guess. It's just that I am expecting a bit more from it than from a typical irc module
Zoffix Not to me. I rather put a single `for @servers` than use :server($whatever) every time I use a command from the Client Object. Providing I have the server available in the first place. 14:22
Zoffix takes a break to play Assasin's Creed Rogue 14:23
tailgate thanks
AlexDaniel Zoffix: you can easily throw an awesome warning if the client is connected to multiple servers. “on line X you're trying to send a message, but no server is specified. However, you're connected to two servers. Use :server(…) to make it work” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 14:24
Zoffix AlexDaniel, but I don't *want* to use :server(...) all over the place
And I can avoid it with for @servers when I instantiate the clients 14:25
AlexDaniel Zoffix: if you're not connected to multiple servers then you don't have to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Zoffix Then my plugin is not robust and will break the first time I or anyone else connects to multiple servers.
AlexDaniel but you may be right, I don't know
Zoffix And I can't release it into the ecosystem. And if I do, I become the Joseph Smith who forgot to add the server :P 14:26
AlexDaniel someone will probably submit a pull request. Especially if the error message is good enough. Or use IRC::Client :strict; :) 14:27
but okay, whatever
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pochi m: sub foo() returns Str { return Nil }; foo() 14:42
camelia ( no output )
pochi m: subset StrStr where :(Str,Str); sub foo() returns StrStr { return Nil, Nil }; foo()
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Type check failed for return value; expected StrStr but got List ($(Nil, Nil))␤ in sub foo at /tmp/b4KcIDtBdo line 1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/b4KcIDtBdo line 1␤␤»
pochi why does Str match Nil, but my StrStr doesn't match Nil,Nil? 14:43
14:48 buharin joined 14:51 |meta left
dogbert17 does anyone have time to review yet another doc snippet, method 'of' in class Hash? gist.github.com/dogbert17/ac2e3781...4cfdad324a 14:52
14:53 CIAvash joined
rindolf dogbert17: looks fine. 14:56
dogbert17 rindolf: thx 14:57
pochi m: my Array of Int @a; @a[0] = [1,2,3] 15:01
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to @a; expected Array[Int] but got Array ($[1, 2, 3])␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/e2pBx_HZAh line 1␤␤»
pochi how do I stuff things into @a? 15:02
ugexe thats an array of array [int]
assigning an array to a specific item in an array like that
dalek c: 7e63db0 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Type/Hash.pod:
Added docs for method of in class Hash and removed som trailing spaces. rindolf++
 15:03
pmurias Zoffix: have you considered using a server/channel pair object instead of strings for channels?
CIAvash m: my Array of Int @a; @a[0] = Array[Int].new: 1,2,3 15:04
camelia ( no output )
gfldex m: my @a if Int; @a = 1,2,3; dd @a;
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Array @a = [1, 2, 3]␤»
pochi so it doesn't understand that [1,2,3] is an Int array? 15:05
gfldex m: my Array of Int @a; my @b of Int = 1,2,3; @a[0] = @b; dd @a; 15:06
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Array[Array[Int]] @a = Array[Array[Int]].new(Array[Int].new(1, 2, 3))␤»
gfldex there is no literal to express Array of type X.
pochi ok
gfldex m: my Array of Int @a; @a[0] = Array[Int].new(1,2,3); dd @a; 15:07
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Array[Array[Int]] @a = Array[Array[Int]].new(Array[Int].new(1, 2, 3))␤»
15:08 ttyl joined
gfldex pochi: ^^^ that's the illiteral way 15:08
pochi thanks 15:09
gfldex wonders if that's doced
ugexe m: my Int @a = 1, 2, 3; say @a.perl; # you were doing an array of array of int
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Array[Int].new(1, 2, 3)␤»
ugexe not the same thing as array of int
assigning a literal array to an Array[Int] slot would obviously never work 15:11
pochi Doesn't Array of Int @a specify a structure such as @a = ( [1,2,3], [2,3,4], ... )?
15:11 ttyl left, espadrine joined
ugexe maybe *goes back to drinking caffeine* 15:13
gfldex no, it constructs a nominally type constraint.
m: my Array[Array[Int]] $a; 15:14
camelia ( no output )
gfldex that's a Array of Arrays of Int.
([1,2,3], [2,3,4]) is a List of Arrays who happen to have Ints inside. 15:15
Zoffix pmurias, to what end? 15:16
It won't solve the issue of having to specify a server all over the place. 15:20
(if you're referring to the earlier conversation about having multiple servers per client instance)
gfldex m: my Array of Int @a; @a[0] = my Int @ = 1,2,3; dd @a; 15:24
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Array[Array[Int]] @a = Array[Array[Int]].new(Array[Int].new(1, 2, 3))␤»
gfldex m: my Array of Int @a; @a[0] = (1,2,3).Array[Int]; dd @a; 15:25
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Use of Nil in string context in block <unit> at /tmp/EfPI1Idc84 line 1␤Indexing requires an instance, tried to do: [ (Int) ]␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/EfPI1Idc84 line 1␤␤»
gfldex how would I coerce to a parametric type? 15:26
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CIAvash m: my Array of Int @a; @a[0] = Array[Int](1,2,3); say @a; 15:31
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«[[1 2 3]]␤»
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anomie__ Is there a way to install perl6 without using git? My internet is 16KB/s, and I just can't keep a connection for that long (and git cloning can not continue after it's been interrupted). 15:46
lizmat anomie__ : rakudo.org/downloads/rakudo/ contains tarballs for download 15:48
perhaps you can find a downloader with resume function
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anomie__ Ah, thanks. 15:49
Can't believe i didn't notice.
lizmat that's why we also have an IRC channel :-)
anomie__ So like, should I build rakudo, then nqp, then star? 15:51
psch anomie__: i think the tarballs work in one step, probably Configure.pl as usual
lizmat perl Configure.pl --gen-moar --gen-nqp --backends=moar # is what I usually do
problem is, that will try to use git to download moar and nqp :-( 15:52
and that brings us back to the 16KB/s issue
www.moarvm.org/releases/MoarVM-2016.05.tar.gz # latest MoarVM tarball 15:53
anomie__ Eh, I'll try to figure it out. Hopefully there's some --nqp-dir flag or something.
lizmat anomie__: there is
anomie__ Good.
psch the star tarballs has nqp and moar bundled, and if those are already there it doesn't download anything 15:54
lizmat psch: good point
psch so it's really just 'perl Configure.pl --gen-moar --backends=moar --prefix=$PREFIX'
lizmat seems that would be the easiest way
psch well, and --make-install maybe :)
lizmat there's --make-install ?
psch yeah
lizmat learned a thing today 15:55
anomie__ So star tarballs are updated less frequently though, so I'll do it the hard way.
psch anomie__: but star also has a bunch of modules
anomie__: which you otherwise would have to download with a module manager (via git, usually) or manually 15:56
gfldex anomie__: do you think a git pull will work after you got the clone done?
anomie__ gfldex: Yeah.
gfldex i may be able to help you
psch could probably just download the zip (or whatever) from github? or do those not carry the .git folder? 15:57
anomie__ psch: Those don't carry the .git folder. 15:58
psch ah, shame :/
anomie__ anomie__: Yeah. 15:59
Err, Yes, i do I have xz installed.
lizmat wouldn't it be just a matter of git create in that folder, and then tweaking the files in .git? 16:01
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psch no idea if git works like that 16:01
i mean, i'd guess doing a 'git init', setting the remote, and the pulling *could* work...
lizmat psch: yeah, git init I meant
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lizmat you wouldn't have any history, but I'm pretty sure it will allow you to git pull etc from there 16:02
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smls What is the expected behavior when two .pm modules `use` each other? 16:03
mst ideally, a small gnome exits the back of the monitor and hits the developer with a mallet
smls I would have probably expected an error, but right now it hangs and keeps eating RAM
(this is regarding rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id...xn-1403059 ) 16:04
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psch smls: we did have circular module loading detection at some point... probably got clobbered with all CUR work though :/ 16:05
+the
smls ok, I'll rename the RT accordingly.
lizmat psch: before, the detection lived in the nqp code, if I recall
now, it is the responsibility of the CUR to detect circularities 16:06
a start would be writing a test :-)
dalek c: ff5caf0 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | / (3 files):
Added docs for X::Caller::NotDynamic and fixed a broken link relating to that
 16:09
dogbert17 stupid question time :) 16:11
lizmat is working through the twisty maze that is the List reifier code
dogbert17 on doc.perl6.org/type/Proc::Async there is an example where some bytes are written through hexdump
it works but if I change that program name to e.g. hexdump2 it just dies, I expected it not to work but there is no error message at all. Is it supposed to be like that? 16:13
psch m: my $promise = start { die "blerg" }; await $promise
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«blerg␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/GV1rJr0SlU line 1␤␤»
psch m: my $promise = start { die "blerg" }; try await $promise
camelia ( no output )
psch dogbert17: the example doesn't have code that handles the failure in any meaningful way 16:14
dogbert17: i'm assuming it dies with something along the lines of "no such file: hexdump2"?
dogbert17 psch: shouldn't there be any output on STDERR? 16:15
psch oh, *no* error message at all
that's curious, actually
psch is really good at only paying half attention :) 16:16
dogbert17 ususally the error messages from perl6 are very good but here there's nothing. It's a bit odd so I thought I should ask 16:17
gfldex $prog.start should return a bottled up exception that tells you about the lack of executable and it's name 16:18
Zoffix Seems calling .write "defuses" the broken promise 16:20
dogbert17 if I put a say 'can I see this' after the await line no text is shown when running the code 16:23
psch dogbert17: yeah, that's what i saw too just now
anomie__ Really though, the git clones wouldn't be nearly as problematic if there was a way to pass a --depth=1 option. Can I do that?
Zoffix Oh, actually .write exits the program 16:24
dogbert17 that seem a bit harsh no?
gfldex anomie__: maybe www.perforce.com/blog/141218/git-b...low-clones
Zoffix dogbert17, well, I mean that's the apparent behaviour not that it's actually calling exit :P 16:25
dogbert17 Zoffix: aha, I jumped to conclusions :) 16:26
psch :/
spooky async bugs
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Zoffix m: $*SCHEDULER.WHAT.say 16:26
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(ThreadPoolScheduler)␤»
psch perl6-gdb-m correctly errors out, with "no such file or directory" 16:27
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dogbert17 psch: on the plus side, if it's a bug we have a good testcase 16:29
lizmat afk for some X-Apocalypse
psch dogbert17: oh, it's most definitely a bug, but it disappearing under gdb is just annoying
ugexe i like how running without `:w` or passing .write a Str gets an exception but still runs the process after exiting the initial perl6 process 16:31
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ugexe perl6 -e 'my $p = Proc::Async.new("hexdump", "-C"); my $promise = $p.start; await $p.write("asdf"); say $promise; $p.close-stdin; await $promise;' # then press `Enter` after the exception exits the process 16:34
dogbert17 I haven't tried perl6-gdb-m before but I had to try, got 'Program received signal SIGPIPE, Broken pipe.' and then a gdb prompt
psch dogbert17: that's a bit weird, are you on HEAD? 16:37
m: say 1
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«1␤»
psch ah, i'm behind anyway
hm, but it's only the Hash.keyof commit that i'm missing
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dogbert17 psch: running what Camelia is running i.e. c5dfd7 16:38
psch yeah, that's HEAD... 16:39
Zoffix m: class Plug { has $.irc is rw }; my $p = Plug.new; class IRC { has @.plugs; method run { $_.irc = rand for @.plugs; }; method meow { say .irc for @.plugs} }; await ^2 .map: {start {.run,.meow given IRC.new(:plugs($p))}};
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«0.89240370869378␤0.730070228046375␤»
Zoffix AlexDaniel++ thanks for bring up the multi-server thing. My current design is flawed. Can't re-use the same plugin in multiple clients ^ 16:40
because $.irc object will be the same one :/
psch oh
i got the SIGPIPE before, too
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psch running 'cont' is what gave the NSFOD 16:40
AlexDaniel Zoffix: glad to help 16:41
psch no idea what's behind that :/
dogbert17 it's definitely strange 16:42
anomie__ failed to load library 'dynext/libperl6_ops_moar.so' 16:45
Eh? I got that error after running `perl Configure.pl --prefix=/tmp/prefix'
Actually, after running make -j3
I installed moarvm and nqp into that prefix. 16:46
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Zoffix "P6 in production thread": perlmonks.org/index.pl?node_id=1163803 16:57
If anyone with an account cares to reply to cavac that our github system is only temporary, I'll appreciate it :) 16:58
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Zoffix Oh, never mind, there's already an answer to that point 16:58
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AlexDaniel by the way, what's the status on perl 6 cpan equivalent? 17:04
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grondilu "but p6 still has a perl-esque feel." what an euphemism 17:06
Zoffix AlexDaniel, haven't heard anything ever since I wrote this: docs.perl6.org/language/modules#The..._Ecosystem and the metacpan fork has no commits this year
mst AlexDaniel: the status is "nobody's working on it at all except a couple perl5 people, and one of them is me and currently sucking at writing a blog post" 17:07
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Zoffix mst, you don't have access to perlmonks.org accounts, by any chance, do you? I have an account, but I've no idea what email address I used for it or what my pass is 17:08
mst no 17:09
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grondilu I have an perlmonks account, but I'm not sure saying the current ecosystem system being temporary is such a great thing to say about it. 17:21
I mean that will go in the sense that Perl 6 is not ready for production. 17:22
Zoffix Why not? It's the truth.
Hiding the truth doesn't magically make things better.
grondilu it's not higing the truth not to say what you don't want to be known. (well, I think it's not)
damned I phrased that poorly 17:23
mst you have two possibilities here
(1) admit the current ecosystem is a giant janky hack that will likely be replaced by somethingsuitable for real usage
Zoffix The alternative is to let them keep thinking our *permanent* system is based on github and accepting their critique on such a system
mst (2) present perl6 as a language that thinks the giant janky hack is actually a good and worthy thing
if (2) is true, then, frankly, I might as well cancel my YAPC::NA talk and /part now 17:24
but I really don't think it is
or, "what Zoffix said"
geekosaur perl's often gotten a lot of mileage out of janky hacks (see: references, p5 "objects")... but this doesn't strike me as one of those 17:25
grondilu I'm unaware of this github hate anyway, is that a serious thing?
mst what
not 'github hate'
nobody said 'github hate'
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grondilu haters rarely say "I hate" 17:26
Zoffix It's not github hate. It's having your shit break just because author of XYZ decided to push a new commit :P 17:27
mst right
I dunno how you think github is relevant here
tadzik if your shit relies on git HEAD...
mst it'd be a janky hack with a different backend
tadzik . o O ( then you're a shit-HEAD )
geekosaur sadly, that is increasingly common in certain ecosystems
(go, node, ...)
mst grondilu: let me put this another way: for perl6 to go into production for me, either the current ecosystem stuff needs replacing or I need to replace it myself :)
mostly because the various sysadmins involved would frigging murder me otherwise 17:28
ugexe nobody should be using "use XXX::YYY" in production without :ver<>:auth<> anyway 17:32
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Zoffix The problem is there's ambiguity of what :ver<whatever> actually is. I can release version 1.001001 and then break it by pushing a few commits without changing the version number 17:34
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ugexe a Distribution is meant to be immutable 17:35
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mst right, and the current implementation of the ecosystem doesn't get that quite right 17:37
I guess moving it to tags will help
ugexe the metacpan instance jdv runs handles it 17:38
this is why ive left my versions at "*" on github, because thats the only version that should be mutable 17:40
mst right 17:41
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ugexe and regarding the perlmonk comments: jdv's (alpha?) metacpan can be used with zef, and the modules `use`d with their full identity. so an example of such a non-github ecosystem for perl6 can already be demonstrated 17:45
mst and we should be able to slot cpan itself in underneath as storage soon enough
pmurias a version of metacpan works for Perl 6? 17:48
ugexe hack.p6c.org:5001/ 17:49
hack.p6c.org:5000/v0/release/_searc...ion:DBIish
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dalek c: a526f32 | titsuki++ | doc/Type/IO.pod:
Fix the example of the open method
 17:57
c: 5ea48f4 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO.pod:
Merge pull request #555 from titsuki/fix-open

Fix the example of the open method
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b2gills anomie__: I think you should be able to call git pull to finish off an interrupted git clone 18:05
anomie__ b2gills: Nope. When a git clone is interrupted, there is no .git. 18:06
Unless it's changed since I last tried. 18:07
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geekosaur it hasn't 18:14
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gnull Hello everyone 18:28
I've been reading perl6 tutorial at learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/ 18:29
DrForr Yay, how do you like it so far?
tadzik welcome gnull :)
gnull It is awesome. Never been so happy to learn new language since Haskell 18:30
gfldex :o
gnull The question is: how up-to-date is it? It states that some of the features are not implemented, like `lazy` or `quietly`. Is it still so? 18:32
psch m: /a b/; 18:33
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Space is not significant here; please use quotes or :s (:sigspace) modifier (or, to suppress this warning, omit the space, or otherwise change the spacing)␤ at /tmp/QVRSwULc5g:1␤ ------> 3/a7⏏5 b/;␤»
psch m: quietly /a b/
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Space is not significant here; please use quotes or :s (:sigspace) modifier (or, to suppress this warning, omit the space, or otherwise change the spacing)␤ at /tmp/W0N6qRewyL:1␤ ------> 3quietly /a7⏏5 b/␤»
psch m: my @a = lazy 1..*; say @a[^10] 18:34
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10)␤»
ugexe m: quietly { /a b/ }
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Space is not significant here; please use quotes or :s (:sigspace) modifier (or, to suppress this warning, omit the space, or otherwise change the spacing)␤ at /tmp/ITLVsuHjHt:1␤ ------> 3quietly { /a7⏏5 b/ }␤»
jnthn m: warn "foo"
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«foo in block <unit> at /tmp/wTRav7ZPSx line 1␤»
ugexe hmm i thought quietly worked some way
jnthn m: quietly warn "foo"
camelia ( no output )
psch that looks like it should be quiet
jnthn It's for *runtime* warnings
psch ahh, so no
jnthn "Potential difficulties" is a compile time thing :)
gfldex gnull: expect it to be outdated in some spots. You will be closer to $now with perl6intro.com/ 18:35
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AlexDaniel gnull: I don't think that it is outdated at all 18:39
gnull: look at the history: github.com/adambard/learnxinyminut...l.markdown 18:41
not too bad
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AlexDaniel gnull: if you stumble upon something that doesn't work, then just open an issue 18:41
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gnull Thank you. 18:42
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gnull I see that `quietly` works. How about `lazy`? perl6intro.com/ doesn't tell abything about it. Any usage examples? 18:43
anything*
psch m: my @a = 1..*;
camelia ( no output )
psch m: my @a = 1..*; say @a[^10]
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10)␤»
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psch meh vOv 18:43
gnull These are lazy lists I guess 18:44
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psch m: my @a = (1..*).map({ ++$_ }); 18:44
camelia ( no output )
gnull I thought that I could do something like: $a = lazy 1 + 2
and 1 + 2 won't be evaluated until i access the value of $a 18:45
The statement prefix `lazy` is what I'm interested in
ugexe m: my @a = lazy 1..100; say @a.elems
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Cannot .elems a lazy list␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/8F8jSutE9d line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/8F8jSutE9d line 1␤␤»
18:45 Deep_Thought joined
psch gnull: it's only for iterators, not subs in general 18:46
...or Iterables? i'm not quite sure there
m: my $a = lazy 1..* X+ 1..*; say $a[^5] 18:48
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(2 3 4 5 6)␤»
psch m: my $a = 1..* X+ 1..*; say $a[^5] # timeout
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
AlexDaniel m: say now; my $a = { sleep 3; 4 + 8 }; say now; say $a(); say now 18:49
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«Instant:1464461392.946288␤Instant:1464461392.949612␤12␤Instant:1464461395.950710␤»
AlexDaniel gnull: perhaps you want something like this?
gnull: ↑
m: say now - BEGIN now; my $a = { sleep 3; 4 + 8 }; say now - BEGIN now; say $a(); say now - BEGIN now 18:50
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«0.0884493␤0.0524130␤12␤3.0159767␤»
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gnull Yes exactly. Are these `{}` code blocks always lazily evaluated? 18:52
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psch any Callable is only evaluated when you invoke it 18:53
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AlexDaniel but it is evaluated each time you invoke it, so it's not exactly what you wanted 18:54
is there any way to make a cached block?
ugexe use a Proxy
gnull psch: What do you mean by invocation? Why `$a = { sleep 3; 4 + 8 }` isn't invocation? 18:56
psch m: my $a = { sleep 10; 4 + 8 }; say $a 18:57
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«-> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|70246464) ... }␤»
psch m: my $a = { sleep 10; 4 + 8 }; say $a()
ugexe its a callable code block unless you `do` it
psch gnull: it isn't because it's a declaration :)
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«12␤»
gnull m: sub a {say 'hooah'}; my $b = a;
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«hooah␤»
psch m: sub a {say 'hooah'}; my $b = &a; 18:58
camelia ( no output )
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gnull m: my $b = {say 'hooah'; 1}; $b 18:59
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/OPVadx_MZ6:␤Useless use of $b in sink context (line 1)␤»
gnull m: my $b = {say 'hooah'; 1}; say $b;
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«-> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|74992952) ... }␤»
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ugexe m: my $b = do {say 'hooah'; 1 }; say $b 18:59
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«hooah␤1␤»
gnull Ok, when i do `$b = {say 'hooah'; 1};` the perl remebmers that to get the value of $b it must evaluate the code block 19:00
ugexe do executes the statement immediately. it doesnt remember anything 19:01
oops i misread do `$b` as `do $b` 19:02
gnull I don't understand the case without `do`
then I try to `say $b`, I expect it to evaluate the block and `say 'hooah'`
ugexe its callable, you have to call it
psch m: my &b = {say 'hooah'; 1}; b
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«hooah␤»
ugexe by `say $b` you are just calling .gist on it
m: say sub foo { 1 + 1 } 19:03
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«sub foo () { #`(Sub|68445288) ... }␤»
gnull Ok, now it's clear 19:04
Thanks you very much
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AlexDaniel gnull: if you have any other questions we would love to answer them :) 19:11
gnull AlexDaniel: love this community) 19:13
grondilu raydiak: Math::Symbolic dies on invocation with:
===SORRY!===
No such method 'key' for invocant of type 'Array'
AlexDaniel huggable: hug gnull
huggable hugs gnull
psch m: say Array.^can('key') 19:14
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«()␤»
grondilu lately I've been looking for a solution for a multivariate polynomials arithmetics. Not quite happy with what I've found. There's a Perl 5 library and I've considered translating it but meh I'm too lazy. 19:15
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grondilu it'd be nice to be able to multiply and add undefined numeric variables and get polynomials as a result. 19:17
AlexDaniel grondilu: you want that to be built in? :o 19:18
grondilu nah, not built-in. I often have unreasonable desires for the core, but not that one. 19:19
anyway if raydiak wants some encouragement to keep on working on Math::Symbolic, here it is.
using undefined variables may not be the best interface for it on second thought, but I'm not sure using a string is the best either. 19:20
I mean something like Polynomial.new('2*x + 1') would be kind of lame. 19:22
FYI I was considering something like that for my Clifford module. I may make it crazy efficient. 19:23
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mst grondilu: basically you need multiple whatever stars 19:24
grondilu: %*{'x'} # ISAGN
grondilu "ISAGN"? 19:25
mst I See A Great Need
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mst usenet-ism, usually at least slightly tongue in cheek 19:25
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grondilu seriously though, I've thought a bit about what would be the best interface to a multivariate polynomials module, could not quite decide on something. 19:26
at first I thought of: use Polynomials; my Real $X; say $X**2 - 1 == ($X + 1)*($X - 1) # that would say "True", amazingly enough. 19:27
^if someone can make this work, I'd be amazed. 19:28
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grondilu notice how $X is undefined here. 19:28
aynway for various reasons I was not entirely conviced by such method anyway. 19:29
AlexDaniel m: my $X; say quietly $X**2 - 1 == ($X + 1)*($X - 1) 19:33
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«True␤»
AlexDaniel grondilu: ↑ there you go, where's my cookie?
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RabidGravy boom I win! threads lose 19:43
hankache good evening #perl6
grondilu never saw "quietly" before 19:44
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grondilu m: my $X; say quietly $X**2 + 1 == ($X + 1)*($X - 1) 19:45
camelia rakudo-moar c5dfd7: OUTPUT«False␤»
jnthn grondilu: Just hacked together gist.github.com/jnthn/75321e83b415...df8d6f0d18 which may be a pointer in a useful direction :)
grondilu binary tree, huh? I thought about doing this like that too, but got discouraged in the end. 19:49
it's also not quite how people seem to do it
jnthn I'm a compiler writer, I see everything as a tree or a graph :P 19:56
Or a string waiting to be turned into one :P
You can build whatever data structure you want, though
My point was more that with care you can overload operators and use .VAR in a way that lets you find the symbol names 19:57
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RabidGravy my problem of yesterday appears to be something in the region of promise and react contending over a single resource in closing a channel and thus keeping a promise :-\ 20:10
replace the react with a $channel.list and it's all fine 20:11
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jnthn RabidGravy: If you've got a golf of it, I can take a look next week. 20:14
RabidGravy I couldn't get a degenerate case to do it
jnthn Ah, hm
RabidGravy there may be a funny timing issue with libshout too 20:15
jnthn Does the case it occurs it depend on anything that's hard to run (native libs and stuff)?
RabidGravy yeah, libshout and icecast required :-\ 20:16
jnthn Gotta go now, but I'll have some bug hunting time next week, so if I can reproduce it... :)
Ah
Hm
Though maybe those are easily apt-get-able or so?
Anyways, time for me to go relax for now... bbt 20:17
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masak m: sub foo { sub bar { state $x; $x++; say $x }; bar; bar }; foo; foo 20:29
camelia rakudo-moar 7500ea: OUTPUT«1␤2␤1␤2␤»
masak :)
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masak 'night, #perl6 21:36
hankache night masak
grondilu m: my $X; say quietly $X**2 + $_ == ($X + 1)*($X - 1) for -1, 1 21:37
camelia rakudo-moar 7500ea: OUTPUT«(True False)␤»
grondilu ^that baffles me
m: say ((my $)**2).WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar 7500ea: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context in block <unit> at /tmp/EWTPIh_Kwx line 1␤(Int)␤»
grondilu m: say quietly ((my $)**2).WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar 7500ea: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
psch m: say Int + -1 21:38
camelia rakudo-moar 7500ea: OUTPUT«Invocant requires an instance of type Int, but a type object was passed. Did you forget a .new?␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/0w9EO_nM_m line 1␤␤»
psch m: say Int + 1
camelia rakudo-moar 7500ea: OUTPUT«Invocant requires an instance of type Int, but a type object was passed. Did you forget a .new?␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/cIhsWygYSu line 1␤␤»
grondilu I guess it takes it as 0.
m: say quietly 0 == my $
camelia rakudo-moar 7500ea: OUTPUT«True␤»
grondilu m: say quietly 1 == my $
camelia rakudo-moar 7500ea: OUTPUT«False␤»
psch m: my $X; my $a = quietly $X**2 + $_; my $b = quietly ($X + 1)*($X - 1) for -1, 1; say $a.WHAT; say $b.WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar 7500ea: OUTPUT«(Int)␤(List)␤»
grondilu ok, mystery solved 21:39
psch m: my $X; my $a = quietly $X**2 + $_; my $b = quietly ($X + 1)*($X - 1); say $a.WHAT; say $b.WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar 7500ea: OUTPUT«(Int)␤(Int)␤»
psch m: my $X; my $a = quietly $X**2 + $_; my $b = quietly ($X + 1)*($X - 1); say $a; say $b
camelia rakudo-moar 7500ea: OUTPUT«0␤-1␤»
psch eh, i'm not even being helpful there anyway
psch better goes to bed as well
hankache night psch 21:40
DrForr Heading to bed myself. Incidentally one of the talk evaluations I got read "A great introduction to perl 6 for someone who has never even used perl 5 before." 21:41
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Emeric my @list = (0, 1, 3, 4); 22:08
Can I an add a value between the 1 and the 2 ?
is there a method to do that ?
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b2gills splice 22:14
m: my @list = (0, 1, 3, 4);@list.splice(1,0,32); say @list 22:15
camelia rakudo-moar 7500ea: OUTPUT«[0 32 1 3 4]␤»
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