»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
00:02 Vynce left
AlexDaniel hehe, well… 00:04
we're down to 178 issues
175 :) 00:05
ZzZombo What is [LTA]? Later Than Anything? :P
00:05 Actualeyes joined
timotimo less than awesome 00:05
00:06 wamba left
ZzZombo That makes a bug LTA? 00:06
timotimo there's "lta error" bugs when an error message is unhelpful, for example
00:07 trnh left 00:09 mr_ron left
AlexDaniel ZzZombo: for example, let's say you write ｢say celling 2.5｣ and it says “Undeclared routine: celling at line 25”. That error message is OK, but it would be more awesome if it said “Did you mean ‘ceiling’?” 00:13
BenGoldberg m: say celling 2.5;
camelia rakudo-moar 843a6b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤ celling used at line 1. Did you mean 'ceiling'?␤␤»
00:16 dj_goku joined, dj_goku left, dj_goku joined
AlexDaniel ZzZombo: if you want read more about this, you can probably wait for my advent post… :) github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/mi...hedule#L24 00:16
tailgate first advent is today, right?
AlexDaniel yea
tailgate hooray! 00:17
AlexDaniel it's already there: perl6advent.wordpress.com/
00:19 cpage_ left 00:21 dj_goku left, canopus left
japhb [Coke]++ # Advent #1 00:26
00:26 canopus joined
TimToady though, of course, using qqx is probably asking for an injection attack there, as certain folks are fond of pointing out :) 00:27
timotimo aye
00:28 seatek joined
AlexDaniel or more likely so bored pointing it out that they just don't anymore 00:30
especially with rm -rf
and especially when it has pointless "" quotes around 00:31
u: palm So 00:32
unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+10877 PALMYRENE LEFT-POINTING FLEURON [So] (𐡷)
AlexDaniel, U+10878 PALMYRENE RIGHT-POINTING FLEURON [So] (𐡸)
AlexDaniel, U+1D85B SIGNWRITING HAND-FLAT BETWEEN PALM FACINGS [So] (𝡛)
AlexDaniel, gist.github.com/295e8506deb1cd70bc...017307d0dd
AlexDaniel u: palm face
unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+1F926 FACE PALM [So] (🤦)
AlexDaniel .tell [Coke] why not fix it, by the way? irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-12-02#i_13664916 00:34
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to [Coke].
00:42 pierre_ joined 00:46 aborazmeh joined, aborazmeh left, aborazmeh joined
gfldex Technaton: if you go functional you may want to look into docs.perl6.org/type/Signature#Cons..._Callables 00:48
actually you should read Signature.pod6 first in any case :) 00:49
dalek c: 7c866c4 | gfldex++ | doc/Type/Signature.pod6:
link to Block and Sub
 00:51
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Signature
00:51 aborazmeh left 00:54 chris2 joined 00:57 travis-ci joined
travis-ci Doc build errored. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'link to Block and Sub' 00:57
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/180580681 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/d8287...866c40b3fb
00:57 travis-ci left 00:59 aborazmeh joined, aborazmeh left, aborazmeh joined 01:03 cdg left 01:05 adrusi joined 01:15 pyrimidine joined 01:17 dj_goku joined 01:22 dj_goku left 01:23 cpage_ joined 01:25 pyrimidine left 01:28 lizmat left 01:29 lizmat joined 01:31 lizmat left, lizmat_ joined 01:32 zakharyas joined
seatek getting travis build errors, on dependency HTTP::Server::Tiny when running tests 06-channel.t line 35 - expected a string of numbers, got (Failure). Installed HTTP::Server::Tiny locally and it passes all tests. Have no idea what to do or where to report this ;) soo.. just doing my duty as far as i can and leaving it here ;) 01:32
timotimo hmm 01:37
commit a bunch of diagnosis output, and see what's going on
seatek do the tests in HTTP::Server::Tiny? 01:38
yoleaux AlexDaniel: go through clog and see if there are any other < > cases that are obviously wrong
seatek /do/to/ 01:39
timotimo i guess so?
timotimo goes to bed 01:40
MasterDuke anyone know my camelia is about 10 commits behind HEAD?
*why
01:41 lizmat_ left
AlexDaniel MasterDuke: I guess you should ping nine 01:42
seatek oh it's relying on HTTP::Tinyish doing a network port connection on that failure line. (HTTP:Server::Tiny is). Maybe the wondrous docker environment on travis is having issues with that. 01:43
MasterDuke .ask nine any idea why camelia is stuck at a bunch of commits behind HEAD? 01:44
yoleaux MasterDuke: I'll pass your message to nine.
01:51 ZzZombo left
seatek can someone kick off a travis build test of p6-HTTP-Server-Tiny ? 01:51
samcv ugh still waiting for MadcapJake to wake up from hibernation and merge my PR for Atom's syntax highlighter 02:11
if anybody knows his email
well i guess i could use the GitHub one
gonna do that now 02:12
02:16 obfusk left, obfusk joined 02:18 dj_goku joined, dj_goku left, dj_goku joined 02:21 bjz left 02:22 bjz joined, pyrimidine joined, espadrine left 02:23 dj_goku left 02:24 labster left 02:27 cibs left 02:28 cibs joined 02:41 pecastro left 02:45 ilbot3 left 02:47 pecastro joined, ilbot3 joined
AlexDaniel .seen MadcapJake 02:49
yoleaux I saw MadcapJake 17 Jun 2016 21:56Z in #perl6: * MadcapJake is off to dinner
02:50 obfusk left, obfusk joined
AlexDaniel samcv: :/ 02:50
02:51 dj_goku joined, dj_goku left, dj_goku joined
AlexDaniel samcv: according to his linkedin page, he is alive! 02:52
samcv that's good :) 02:55
AlexDaniel but you never know! 02:56
samcv how recent does his linked in say? 02:57
AlexDaniel samcv: well, he disappeared in June, but his linkedin account says that he started working somewhere in July 2016 03:00
samcv ok so he's at least alive as of July 03:02
AlexDaniel maybe 03:03
or perhaps he set it beforehand :) 03:04
samcv: what about forking it?
03:04 ZzZombo joined, ZzZombo left, ZzZombo joined
samcv I could do that. well i already have a fork on my github 03:04
that would be fine I guess...
AlexDaniel samcv: if there's no response from him, consider doing so 03:05
samcv okay
seatek i agree 100%
AlexDaniel samcv: by the way… why not support all quotes?
samcv which ones missing?
i know some are. like, right double quote and then left double quote
AlexDaniel samcv: github.com/hinrik/perl6-mode/issues/12 03:06
samcv: and what's going to happen if someone writes “foo “bar” baz” ?
samcv uh AlexDaniel you need to escape them
and escaping them works fine
03:06 xtreak joined
samcv i checeked that 03:06
AlexDaniel m: say “foo “bar” baz” 03:07
camelia rakudo-moar 843a6b: OUTPUT«foo “bar” baz␤»
samcv unless it lets you do that?
uhm
don't do that? :P
haha
AlexDaniel no
samcv i will try and work that out i guess. much better that they actually work right now though. 03:08
AlexDaniel samcv: same goes for #`{ }
samcv that works
03:08 perlpilot left
samcv so does #`() 03:08
AlexDaniel samcv: you mean #`{ foo { bar } baz } works?
what about #`􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xA9 􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xAA ? :) 03:09
to be honest I don't know how to do it properly 03:10
samcv wait. why did you do multiple { } though..
m: #`{ {say "hi" } }
camelia ( no output )
samcv hm
AlexDaniel because it should be balanced just like “ “ ” ”
samcv well that didn't work before either :P how does it decide?
ahhh
AlexDaniel also, it accepts any brackety thing in any amounts 03:11
samcv now it all makes sense :)
AlexDaniel m: #`􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xA9􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xA9􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xA9􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xA9􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xA9􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xA9􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xA9􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xA9 say "hi" 􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xAA􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xAA􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xAA􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xAA􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xAA􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xAA􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xAA􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xAA
camelia ( no output )
samcv yeah i know that. was just trying to get all the commonish ones and get it working nicely
so i've just been doing #`(( or #`{{ which won't have that issue
AlexDaniel that's a good step, yes
samcv yeah. thanks for the info though, did not realize you could do those things, but makes sense that it 'matches' so if it sees another { then it knows to keep going and not end at the } 03:12
AlexDaniel yup
samcv: you probably want to add ｢｣ though 03:13
samcv hmm?
AlexDaniel m: say ｢hello world｣
camelia rakudo-moar 843a6b: OUTPUT«hello world␤»
samcv i have that though?
oh wait maybe i don't hold on
ah yeah need to add that one too 03:14
that's the same as Q 03:15
AlexDaniel samcv: and while you're at it, perhaps consider adding single and triple variants of the multiline comments 03:16
samcv already has single varients atm
not triple but can add that too
AlexDaniel I guess triple and single is what most people use
so yeah, that will cover most of it, I guess
03:19 bjz_ joined 03:20 bjz left 03:23 noganex_ joined 03:25 James0r joined 03:26 noganex left
samcv #`􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xA9say 'test' 􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xAA 03:29
m: #`􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xA9say 'test' 􏿽xE2􏿽x8C􏿽xAA
camelia ( no output )
03:33 itaipu joined 03:48 rurban joined 03:51 James0r left
AlexDaniel samcv: any unicode quote/bracket is supported 03:55
04:07 solarbunny left
seatek i may have to try out this atom editor 04:10
04:12 baest left 04:13 cpage_ left
seatek the emacs perl6 mode is really, really good. but sometimes it gets confused by < or > with " nearby 04:17
and it has troubles recognizing pod 04:18
04:19 cpage_ joined 04:20 solarbunny joined 04:21 baest joined 04:23 aborazmeh left 04:39 cpage_ left 04:40 itaipu left 04:44 ugjka left 04:47 cpage_ joined
samcv nice he replied on github :) 04:53
emailing him did the trick :P
👍
working on getting qq[] to do interpolation as well. hopefully i can make 'all of the things' work 04:54
AlexDaniel samcv++ 04:55
MadcapJake++ :)
samcv nice merged :) 05:00
05:03 Actualeyes left 05:05 perlpilot joined 05:07 khw left
moritz good morning 05:08
no advent post yet :(
does anybody have a read-made post yet that we can swap in? 05:09
AlexDaniel wasn't it ready already?
I thought it was scheduled
moritz: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-12-01#i_13662981 05:10
moritz then I'll publish now 05:12
05:12 pierre_ left 05:13 pierre_ joined
moritz done 05:13
05:15 ZzZombo left 05:19 skids left 05:20 James0r joined 05:22 Madcap^Jake^ joined, Actualeyes joined 05:23 Madcap^Jake^ is now known as MadcapJake, pierre_ left
MadcapJake howdy all! 05:24
moritz hey, ho, MadcapJake! 05:26
MadcapJake I'm back! 05:27
I was dealing with some crazy life changes and unfortunately had to put my programming time on the backburner
moritz I hope your life is better now, or at least not crazily changing anymore :-) 05:28
MadcapJake So I really wanted to apologize to everyone for leaving language-perl6fe stagnant, my rakudo PR that never reached the light of day, and my perl6 bug reporter that I never finished :(
moritz: it has definitely stabilized! I have an apartment, I finally have a laptop I can program on, and I have forcefully carved some time now to get back into the swing of things! 05:29
moritz MadcapJake: \o/ 05:30
MadcapJake: and no need to apologize; life always comes first :-)
samcv nice all the qq constructs work now :)
though maybe TECHNICALLY not *all* of them. but all the ones that worked for q[] before
MadcapJake samcv: thanks for finally pushing me back into the fringe :) I needed that!
samcv haha
MadcapJake I want to take another look at the Qw regexes because there is either something fishy going on or there is something in there that isn't needed 05:31
05:32 pierre_ joined
samcv oh? 05:33
it works now though
MadcapJake huh, I might've been looking at an earlier commit 05:34
samcv as of the 2nd PR the only thing I can think is that Q and q constructs both don't distinguish backslashes.
ah
MadcapJake I saw a |Qw at the end that seemed weird
samcv |Q(?:x|w|ww|v|s|a|h|f|c|b|p) 05:35
there's this, so the q[] and Q[] get highlighted the same.. and can't fix that until we teach q[] that q[\]] ends at the non escaped ]
so basically all q[] highlight like Q[] should 05:36
but that is how it was before I made any changes
05:36 pierre_ left
MadcapJake Bummer I thought I did that right lol 05:37
samcv heh
i think the "\"" was fine before as well, and i checked that the “ ” and all the other ones i added also work with escaping them+checked the output from rakudo 05:38
AlexDaniel MadcapJake: long time no see ;)
samcv should be able to do mostly the same thing for q() things as the other. but will have to copy them again :)
and i just spent a long time copying all of them for the qq :P
so anotherday will do that
MadcapJake AlexDaniel: yes! It definitely has! I have been completely away from programming for about 8 months! :O 05:39
I'm still feeling quite rusty
samcv i was right he was hibernating
MadcapJake hahaha
AlexDaniel MadcapJake: for a minute I thought that you were dead 05:40
samcv i did google your name + obituaries/death
and nothing came up. so that was reassuring
MadcapJake Nope still alive! I just finally moved out of my poisonous relationship and had to get a lame non-programming job :(
AlexDaniel fuck poisonous relationships 05:41
MadcapJake amen to that!
moritz the market being what is is, I guess you'll be able to switch to a programming job soonish 05:42
MadcapJake you really think so? That'd be sweet!
moritz the day before yesterday I sat in the subway preparing some Perl 6 slides, and a random guy asked me if I was a programmer, they needed somebody to do Java/Spring stuff :-) 05:44
there's a huge demand for developers everywhere, basically 05:45
MadcapJake haha now that is amazing!
moritz at every conference/meetup/workshop I go, people are hiring developers
samcv hmm would be nice to get a programming job but never actually been employed as a programmer 05:46
my last job was Jr. Linux Admin
MadcapJake wow, I guess I need to get out to some of those!
I have been thinking about presenting or teaching some Perl 6 locally, it would help me brush up and I love teaching. 05:47
samcv: that sounds like a fun job too though! I'd take a job like that in a heartbeat! 05:48
samcv i need to get a new job
not working atm
moritz samcv: there area lots of jobs inbetween, with boths ops and programing/automation components
the whole devops stuff
samcv yeah
moritz anybody want to move to Germany? :-)
we have about a dozen open positions, from straight operating, via devops stuff, to classical application development. Also DBA, data engineer (whatever that is), architects, ... 05:50
MadcapJake hah, that'd be awesome! I am stuck here for another 12 years.
moritz MadcapJake: where's "here"? 05:51
MadcapJake Eau Claire, Wisconsin, United States
so petty much the middle of nowhere :) though there is a decent tech community 1.5 hours west of me (Minneapolis/St. Paul)o 05:52
05:53 ZzZombo joined
samcv I'm half way between San Francisco and San Jose 05:55
MadcapJake, 12 years?
MadcapJake :) When my son turns 18 (his mom and I share custody) 05:56
MadcapJake is installing Fedora 25 on his new laptop! 05:57
Are there Perl 6 packages for Fedora?
AlexDaniel huggable: deb
huggable AlexDaniel, CentOS and Debian Rakudo packages: github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases
MadcapJake Fedora doesn't use debs I though? 05:58
thought*
huggable: rpm
huggable MadcapJake, nothing found
AlexDaniel MadcapJake: go to the link :)
I'm not sure if these rpms will work for fedora though
MadcapJake oh CentOS uses rpm? 05:59
06:00 xinming_ joined, Cabanossi left
MadcapJake I know nothing about rpm or Fedora :) but I wanted to try a first-class Gnome experience on this laptop 06:00
(So I guess I know one thing about fedora then :P )
06:01 Cabanossi joined 06:03 xinming left
MadcapJake yikes this is super out-of-date: fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Rakudo_Star 06:05
samcv nice i got “test “test”” nested quotes working :D 06:08
i want to fix all the things
MadcapJake wow! How'd you go about that?
samcv MadcapJake, github.com/samcv/language-perl6fe/...d9afb22528 06:10
gotta apply it for all the other ones too as well, at least the ones I previously got working. I know i had trouble with some of them 06:11
couldn't get ”this“ working with right quote + left quote 06:12
was having issues
MadcapJake samcv: I don't follow why you want that behavior, doesn't that not work in Perl 6?
samcv it does work 06:13
m: say ”this“
MadcapJake p6: say "test "test"";
camelia rakudo-moar 843a6b: OUTPUT«this␤»
rakudo-moar 843a6b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say "test "7⏏5test"";␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement end␤ statement modifier…»
samcv m: say “testing “testing” this”
camelia rakudo-moar 843a6b: OUTPUT«testing “testing” this␤»
MadcapJake are those special chars? I can't really tell I guess
samcv AlexDaniel reminded me that this does work in perl 6 :) 06:14
like fancy double quotes
MadcapJake oh they're the tiniest bit slanted :P
samcv there's left double quote and right double quote
need bigger font maybe?
well my font is size 10 and i can see the diff. i guess some fonts may not show the diff that much
actually proba'bly smaller than 10
MadcapJake i don't even know what this computer uses, but it is using a big super old lcd tv as a monitor lol 06:15
samcv i think it's size 9, idk it's bitmap
ah
MadcapJake which is why I'm getting my new laptop up-to-snuff
06:15 BenGoldberg left
samcv but yeah you can nest quotes if you use quotes that are different left/right 06:15
even can do right double quote + left double quote, backwards :P
MadcapJake that seems bizarre and could prove difficult to capture all cases 06:16
re: language-perl6fe
samcv yes :P
yeah that's why i only did left+right and right + right for now 06:17
06:19 ZzZombo left 06:21 ZzZombo joined, ZzZombo left, ZzZombo joined
MadcapJake good idea 06:21
well I'm gonna fiddle with this laptop some more and then hit the hay. Glad to be back! See you this weekend! 06:23
06:24 darutoko joined 06:25 domidumont joined 06:29 pyrimidine left, pyrimidine joined 06:33 ZzZombo left, pierre_ joined 06:35 ZzZombo joined, vendethiel left, vendethiel joined 06:36 Wiertek joined 06:38 pierre_ left
samcv AlexDaniel, ｢｣ works now to, also allows nesting as well 06:41
AlexDaniel nice
samcv in my branch
06:43 pierre_ joined 06:47 domidumont left 06:51 RabidGravy joined 06:56 domidumont joined 06:57 nadim joined 06:58 Wiertek left 06:59 James0r left 07:00 domidumont left 07:01 domidumont joined 07:03 ZzZombo left 07:08 AlexDaniel left 07:09 pyrimidine left 07:17 ribasushi left 07:19 ssm joined 07:42 ribasushi joined 07:45 ZzZombo joined 07:46 ZzZombo left 07:47 ZzZombo joined, wamba joined, ZzZombo left, ZzZombo joined
ZzZombo Should I feel bad for cracking mIRC with a fucking Cheat Engine? 07:49
samcv nice. my 2nd PR now fixes 5 bugs :) github.com/MadcapJake/language-perl6fe/pull/43 07:50
gotta start winding down for the day now
07:54 pierre_ left 07:58 pierre_ joined 08:05 abraxxa joined 08:11 domidumont left, vendethiel left 08:12 ufobat joined 08:13 vendethiel joined, domidumont joined 08:15 labster joined
gfldex i just linked to the advent blog in the noob help section of a forum for some online game 08:26
\o/ propaganda! 08:27
08:33 vendethiel left 08:42 firstdayonthejob joined
samcv heh 08:51
08:52 g4 joined 08:54 wamba left 08:55 Tonik joined 09:04 pyrimidine joined
abraxxa is there an equivalent for File::HomeDir already available in perl6? 09:04
github.com/azawawi/perl6-file-homedir ;) 09:05
so no core support?
09:06 chris2 left, brrt joined
gfldex abraxxa: yes 09:06
abraxxa ok 09:07
its code is quite....slim: github.com/azawawi/perl6-file-home...r/Unix.pm6 09:09
gfldex PR welcome I guess 09:10
09:10 Guest42590 joined
psch i suppose most of those just aren't standardized on *nix, are they? 09:11
09:13 lizmat joined
nine They aren't. So I'm not sure the interface makes much sense 09:13
yoleaux 01:44Z <MasterDuke> nine: any idea why camelia is stuck at a bunch of commits behind HEAD?
09:14 pierre_ left, andrzejku joined
nine There are odd local changes in camelia's rakudo checkouts 09:15
09:15 zakharyas left, Guest42590 left
abraxxa what is the preferred way of concatenating path? IO::Path? 09:15
File::HomeDir returns Str
nine Because the file system is full...
abraxxa: certainly IO::Path. It's also most convenient.
09:17 camelia left
abraxxa wow, coredump! 09:17
my $hamster-db = IO::Path.new(File::HomeDir.my-data); say $hamster-db;
2016.11
on this my $hamster-db = IO::Path.new(File::HomeDir.my-data); 09:18
is this because of github.com/azawawi/perl6-file-home...ix.pm6#L33 09:19
gfldex that should fire an exception 09:20
abraxxa segfaults instead on 2016.11 09:21
can someone please confirm this on his system?
psch eval: role R { method m { !!! } }; class C { my $singleton; method new { $singleton = self.bless does R } }; C.new.m 09:22
evalable6 psch, rakudo-moar abc6439: OUTPUT«(exit code 1) Method 'm' must be implemented by C+{R} because it is required by a role␤ in an…»
psch, Full output: gist.github.com/68a6b4bea4786f4c08...adf1a914c8
gfldex abraxxa: if you provide a gist with code that would be easy
09:22 pierre_ joined
psch well, apparently it's a bit more complicated than the degenerate case :) 09:22
abraxxa perl6 -e 'use v6; use File::HomeDir; say File::HomeDir.my-data;' 09:23
this is on Ubuntu 16.10 x64
psch oh, you're not using .new first
09:23 camelia joined
psch ah, but it's not needed because the method does that 09:23
psch apparently didn't look closely enough at the File::HomeDir source 09:24
abraxxa psch: the docs don't say that you need to: github.com/azawawi/perl6-file-homedir
psch eval: role R { method m { !!! } }; class C { my $singleton; method new { $singleton = self.bless does R }; method n { C.new.m }; C.n
evalable6 psch, rakudo-moar abc6439: OUTPUT«(exit code 1) ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/1B2mScbQae␤Missing block␤at /tmp/1B2mScb…»
psch, Full output: gist.github.com/fcbb82ae4dc5967ef2...2bb2274b4c
psch eh
eval: role R { method m { !!! } }; class C { my $singleton; method new { $singleton = self.bless does R }; method n { C.new.m } }; C.n
evalable6 psch, rakudo-moar abc6439: OUTPUT«(exit code 1) Method 'm' must be implemented by C+{R} because it is required by a role␤ in an…» 09:25
psch, Full output: gist.github.com/b548149a04d4e2b8ef...39c8e496cf
09:25 ChanServ sets mode: +v camelia
psch yeah, still as-expected... 09:25
star-m: role R { method m { !!! } }; class C { my $singleton; method new { $singleton = self.bless does R }; method n { C.new.m } }; C.n
camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT«Method 'm' must be implemented by C+{R} because it is required by a role␤ in any compose_method_table at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 2856␤ in any apply at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 2866␤ in any compose at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp line 3039␤ i…»
psch so it probably comes down to something about splitting stuff across files or maybe architecture?
09:27 pierre_ left
gfldex abraxxa: segfault on my site with 2016.11-102-gabc6439 09:27
nine: please note ^^^
09:28 _28_ria joined 09:32 cyphase left 09:33 ugjka joined 09:36 sjohnsen left, cyphase joined 09:38 gensym left, sjohnsen joined, Cabanossi left 09:39 smash left, Cabanossi joined, rindolf joined 09:40 smash joined, wamba joined, gensym joined 09:41 pierre_ joined 09:47 brillenfux joined 09:53 ZzZombo_ joined 09:54 ZzZombo is now known as Guest68147, ZzZombo_ is now known as ZzZombo, ZzZombo left, ZzZombo joined
abraxxa the Date formatter is a simple sub that get's the Date object passed and returns a Str? 09:54
09:55 mrdside joined, Guest68147 left 09:56 labster left
abraxxa I' 09:58
I'm trying to have a Date als cli param, my signature is this: sub MAIN( Date :$dt-start = Date.today.truncated-to('month') ) {
but ./hamster-projexport.pl6 --dt-start=2016-11-01 isn't accepted 09:59
psch m: say "2016-11-01" ~~ Date
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«False␤»
psch m: say "2016-11-01" ~~ Date(Str)
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«False␤»
psch m: say "2016-11-01" ~~ { Date.new($_) }
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«2016-11-01␤»
mrdside m: say "2016-11-01" ~~ { Date.new($_) }
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«2016-11-01␤»
psch m: say ("2016-11-01" ~~ { Date.new($_) }).WHAT 10:00
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«(Date)␤»
psch abraxxa: you only ever get {Int,Rat,Complex,Num,}Str as arguments to MAIN
abraxxa psch: then perl6 should die with an error if I specify something else
psch abraxxa: i don't know if it should, some coercions work just fine 10:01
arnsholt abraxxa: Make it a multi, and let the Str :dt-start candidate convert the string to Date and dispatch to MAIN again 10:02
Is one approach
mrdside can i work with COM? 10:03
psch mrdside: that probably depends on which COM you're talking about 10:04
i'd have guessed either .com or COM:, fwiw 10:05
mrdside win32 application interface 10:06
psch so, like, kernel32.dll, user32.dll, those?
arnsholt abraxxa: Alternatively, you can make the coercion variant work. But since Str doesn't have a conversion method for date you'll have to monkey patch it: 10:07
m: use MONKEY; augment class Str { method Date() { Date.new(self) } }; sub foo(Date(Str) $d) { say $d.WHAT; say $d }; foo "2016-12-01"
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«(Date)␤2016-12-01␤»
abraxxa arnsholt: thanks! 10:08
arnsholt I haven't tested it with MAIN, mind, but can't see why it shouldn't work
psch m: use MONKEY; augment class Str { method Date() { Date.new(self) } }; BEGIN @*ARGS = '2016-11-01'; sub MAIN(Date(Str) $x) { say $x.perl } 10:09
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«Date.new(2016,11,1)␤»
arnsholt Oh, nice trick that!
psch mrdside: considering the WinAPI is purely in C, you'll probably do fine with NativeCall, see docs.perl6.org/language/nativecall...nativecall 10:10
dalek c: 87f46f6 | gfldex++ | doc/Language/control.pod6:
show default arguments in pointy blocks
 10:12
c: e32aab2 | gfldex++ | doc/Language/control.pod6:
link to block
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/language/control
c: 8b78b8f | gfldex++ | doc/Type/Block.pod6:
show default arguments in pointy block
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Block
10:12 rurban left
mrdside psch: i need only create an instance of class interactive and call his methods 10:15
jnthn NativeCall supports calling C++ things, and I *think* that'd be good enough for COM objects, which iirc are set up as C++ objects under the hood. It's been easily a decade since I touched COM though :) 10:16
10:17 samcv left 10:18 samcv joined
gfldex jnthn: lucky you! 10:19
m: role ToDate { method Date() { Date.new(self) } }; my @a = '2016-12-24', '2016-12-25'; @a = @a».&infix:<but>(ToDate); say @a».Date;
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«[2016-12-24 2016-12-25]␤»
gfldex abraxxa: you don't need to use MONKEY if you don't like to, see ^^^ 10:20
10:20 travis-ci joined
travis-ci Doc build errored. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'show default arguments in pointy block' 10:20
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/180659312 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/7c866...78b8fa8360
10:20 travis-ci left
abraxxa gfldex: which line exactly? 10:20
gfldex: role ToDate?
gfldex yes
you can runtime mixin a role on all elements of an array 10:21
abraxxa I don't have an array, just one Date MAIN arg
10:21 TEttinger left
gfldex in that care you might need to MONKEY 10:21
arnsholt You could probably use that approach to 10:22
With something like "BEGIN @*ARGS>>.&infix:<but>(ToDate)"
*too
Just apply the role to all the arguments
gfldex if would be careful with that without extra type checks 10:23
psch well, everything in @*ARGS is guaranteed to be Stringy
arnsholt Yeah, @*ARGS will be Str or FooStr
psch (except for BEGIN hackery of course)
gfldex so you need to do a .map with .value ~~ Str ?? .&to-date !! .value
arnsholt Or would that work? 10:24
I'm not sure when @*ARGS is bound...
Probably not BEGIN-time, come to think of it
INIT maybe?
psch it's bound in main.nqp afair
arnsholt Yeah, it actually works with BEGIN 10:25
Just checked
gfldex m: role ToDate { method Date() { Date.new(self) } }; my @a = '2016-12-24', '2016-12-25', 'bad'; @a = @a».&infix:<but>(ToDate); say @a».Date;
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«Invalid Date string 'bad'; use yyyy-mm-dd instead␤ in method Date at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
arnsholt Although INIT is probably safer if you're putting it in something module-like
psch thing is, it doesn't help with the type constraint without touching @*ARGS 10:26
which means that 'program.pl --date=not-a-date' dies confusingly
considering augment is lexical i'd probably prefer that as a solution 10:27
alternatively there's always "rethink coercers and implement the rethought solution" :P
10:29 simcop2387 left 10:34 simcop2387 joined
abraxxa I'd prefer a custom (sub)type of Date that supports the coersion 10:51
psch that's the thing, coercers are not attached to the target type, but to the original type
so, to have a subtype of Date that can be coerced to from Str you'd need to change that 10:52
or you teach Str how to coerce to Date
10:52 Wiertek joined
dalek c: bc67dc3 | gfldex++ | doc/Type/Signature.pod6:
add MONKEY example to Coercion Type
 10:53
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Signature
gfldex some soft of subset-rw would be nice in general
timotimo subset-rw? 10:54
gfldex instead of doing a type/value check, modify the value in place
jnthn That's exactly what coercion types are meant to be for...
timotimo right 10:55
gfldex MONEKYs are scary :(
timotimo no need for monkeys, i don't think
jnthn Not that it's also speculated in the design docs that Foo($bar) would call Foo.new($bar) if $bar.Foo doesn't exist
timotimo oh, because you would have to add the method to the thing
jnthn *Note
psch huh, that shouldn't be too hard to implement, actually
jnthn Indeed
And would probably resolve a lot of the issues 10:56
gfldex i can't wait to doc that :->
psch well, at least for r-m. not sure about r-j right now
abraxxa got to go, thanks! 10:58
10:58 abraxxa left 11:01 pierre_ left 11:02 lucasb_ joined
lucasb_ so, the theme used in the perl6advent blog is a standard wordpress thing? 11:03
gfldex yes, and we can't really do much about it 11:04
lucasb_ wondering if there isn't a more "readable" theme available :)
gfldex: ah, ok
babydrop lucasb_: what's wrong with the current readability?
gfldex it's very scrolly 11:05
lucasb_ babydrop: I don't know, maybe it's just my eyes
maybe too narrow
11:05 chris2_ joined
gfldex it is very narrow and the text is quite large, what results in scrollyness 11:05
the font even 11:06
babydrop You people are too spoiled. 11:07
dalek osystem: af96224 | seatek++ | META.list:
github.com/adaptiveoptics/HTML-Tag
11:07 chris2_ is now known as chris2
gfldex lucasb_: next year we do the bloody thing ourselves :) 11:08
babydrop The designer obviously made the width just big enough to fit on a screen: i.imgur.com/o75tYnE.png
11:09 xtreak left
gfldex my screen is 4.5 times as big as the designers it seams 11:09
babydrop Well, there's your problem! :) 11:10
lucasb_ BTW... in the post: 'head -1 path:map04727.ko'. it was really intended to grep a file named "path:..." ?
s/to grep/to head(1)/
nevermind. I just learned that ':' is a valid filename character 11:11
ufobat did this happen to someone else too after panda install Task::Star? "resolve stage failed for Task::Star: Dependency Test::Mock is not present in the module ecosystem"
babydrop lucasb_: not on Windows
timotimo ufobat: may need a "panda update"? 11:12
11:12 itaipu joined
ufobat is a fresh rakudobrew build panda not sufficient? 11:12
11:13 travis-ci joined
ufobat but nope, panda update doesnt help 11:13
travis-ci Doc build passed. Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer 'add MONKEY example to Coercion Type'
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/180668356 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/8b78b...67dc3404ef
11:13 travis-ci left
gfldex .tell kyclark please don't teach your students to use ‚:‘ in file names. That will end in tears. 11:14
yoleaux gfldex: I'll pass your message to kyclark.
11:14 _28_ria left
babydrop huggable: advent 11:15
huggable babydrop, github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/mi...6/schedule
babydrop Still 9 spots available! Sign up to blog a post! 11:16
ufobat: just use zef instead of panda 11:19
rakudobrew build zef
11:23 tinitus joined
ufobat :D okay 11:24
11:26 tinitus_ joined
mrdside can i use win32::ole in 6th version? (i'm new in perl) 11:26
timotimo you can use Inline::Perl5 to use the perl5 module
11:28 tinitus left
tadzik yay, london 11:28
timotimo yay 11:29
11:29 _28_ria joined 11:30 lizmat left 11:32 lizmat joined
babydrop mrdside: it's more of a 1st version of Perl 6 :) 11:36
mrdside: with Perl 5 continuing its versioning... I think version 26 is in the making 11:37
ilmari yes, the current version is 24, 26 is coming out next spring 11:38
11:38 M_o_C joined
babydrop And I guess ours is not really 1st version, but 105th version, with version 106 coming out later this month 11:39
psch isn't it more like the 105th version of the implementation of the 1st version of Perl 6..? 11:40
*one implementation
babydrop Yeah, that'd be more correct.
I wonder if we should release on 25th this month :P You know, to keep the joke going. 11:41
psch 6.d isn't ready yet is it? 11:45
'cause that'd be for christmas
timotimo nah, we still want to have non-blocking async for that
11:45 setty1_ joined
jnthn non-blocking async? 11:47
11:47 itaipu left
babydrop psch: no, it'd be for Diwali 11:47
jnthn Oh, non-blocking await :)
timotimo er, yes %)
11:47 setty1 left
arnsholt Next Diwali is 18th or 19th October 2017, according to Wikipedia =) 11:48
ufobat :-( nopaste.me/view/82a7091b babydrop zef isnt working either
babydrop :/ 11:49
worked for me....
arnsholt: perfect!
ufobat it is my bad karma - i have to less time for perl6 and thats camelias revenge! 11:50
babydrop ufobat: well, there's an easy solution.
ufobat: don't install Task::Star! 11:51
ufobat: and report that issue on modules.perl6.org/dist/zef
'cause it works fine on whatever version I got
This is Rakudo version 2016.11-58-g2efeda0 11:52
I installed it when ^ that was the latest Rakudo's commit
zef install Test::Mock that is is what works 11:53
ufobat No such method 'contains-spec' for invocant of type 'Candidate' <- is this because of Test::Mock? 11:55
babydrop "===> Install [OK] for Task::Star" 11:57
ufobat: don't think so
I don't know why panda thinks it ain't got a `provides` either, 'cause it does. 11:58
Since Apr 1, 2015
Oh wait, I confused the opened issue on that module and your issue :D 11:59
But still, it is in the ecosystem JSON file so I don't know why it thinks it ain't there.
ufobat zef install Test::Mock works.. 12:01
12:05 tinitus_ left
lucasb_ I'm wondering how many times, you core dev people, build rakudo in a day? 12:11
I'm on 2016.11 and thinking about building the latest revision every so often
12:17 maybekoo2 joined
gfldex lucasb_: while true; do ./pull-and-build; sleep 3600s; date -Iseconds; done 12:18
12:20 wamba left
gfldex gist.github.com/anonymous/32067eda...115bf55353 12:20
lucasb_ gfldex: so, build every one hour (if there was a change) ? 12:21
gfldex yes
lucasb_ gfldex: interesting! thanks for sharing
12:21 mrdside left
babydrop lucasb_, several times per bug fixed. 12:22
12:23 pyrimidine left, canopus left
babydrop lucasb_, I recommend using compiler releases, instead of building every few commits 12:23
12:23 pyrimidine joined
lucasb_ babydrop: yes, I run the monthly releases... but then, I miss the action happening in the middle of the month 12:24
for example, bugs already fixed
12:24 pmurias joined
babydrop lucasb_, but what about bugs introduced and works in progress? Latest commit currently won't let your MAIN accept string "False" or string "True", for example, because we are working on making enums work in MAIN 12:25
12:25 pierre_ joined
babydrop And then you'd come here and say that our stuff's broken and we're terrible :) 12:26
gfldex and we would give him a hug
babydrop heh
lucasb_ you are all terrible
babydrop :)
gfldex hugs lucasb_
lucasb_ lol, just kidding
babydrop: I understand your point 12:27
the "earlier adopter" needs to decide for himself what kind of intimacy he wants to have
one way to look at the rakudo users is to separate them in 3:
* the star users
* the montly users 12:28
* the repo users
12:28 pyrimidine left
psch hasn't star been turned monthly by stmuk_ by now..? 12:28
lucasb_ maybe most users pick one and stick with it
12:28 canopus joined
lucasb_ psch: indeed, stmuk_++ 12:28
12:32 M_o_C left 12:36 M_o_C joined 12:49 vytas left 12:54 M_o_C left 12:55 vytas joined 13:02 rindolf left 13:07 user9 left
babydrop m: my %hash{Any}; %hash{Mu} = 42; 13:08
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«Cannot resolve caller postcircumfix:<{ }>((my Any %{Any} = ), Mu, 42); none of these signatures match:␤ (\SELF, \key)␤ (\SELF, \key, Mu \ASSIGN)␤ (\SELF, \key, Mu :$BIND! is raw)␤ (\SELF, \key, :$delete!, *%other)␤ (\SELF, \key, :$…»
13:08 user9 joined
babydrop Things would be easier if bdf would at least idle in the chat... 13:10
13:10 rindolf joined
babydrop PSA: in Advent UI <blah> is parsed as an HTML tag, you need to write angle brackets as &lt;blah&gt; 13:11
13:12 Coffeeframe joined 13:19 prammer joined
Coffeeframe Mornin' folks 13:20
13:21 prammer left
babydrop \o 13:22
Coffeeframe How is babydrop 13:24
babydrop All systems optimal. 13:25
Coffeeframe Fair
13:36 perlpilot left, prammer joined 13:39 wamba joined 13:44 rindolf left, perlpilot joined 13:46 toolforger joined
lucasb_ did you see the --ll-exception file path separator inconsistency RT ticket? 13:47
[Coke] .
yoleaux 00:34Z <AlexDaniel> [Coke]: why not fix it, by the way? irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-12-02#i_13664916
lucasb_ I just wanted to make the important observation that if the user had installed rakudo in directory "C:\o" 13:49
he would have ended up with a happy path: C:\o/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm
13:51 rindolf joined
toolforger lol 13:51
jnthn So...we close it as "feature"? :P
nine +1 13:52
13:53 seatek left 13:55 ZzZombo left 13:57 wamba left
[Coke] AlexDaniel, TimToady; Added a one liner at the end, leaving that as an exercise to the reader. 14:01
14:01 ZzZombo joined, ZzZombo left, ZzZombo joined 14:02 Wiertek left, pyrimidine joined
[Coke] Day 2. 6 gaps in the calendar left. first gap in 8 days. zoffix doing 4 posts still, Coke 2. looks like day 3's post is queued up. 14:04
babydrop El_Che should be signing up for writing one too.
[Coke] (day 3) ah draft is there, but it's not scheduled. 14:05
babydrop And I've just finished with writing subset post, so Zoffix is doing only 3 posts still :} 14:06
[Coke] he's listed for 4.
14:07 pierre_ left
babydrop Well, yeah, but one is done already :) 14:07
14:08 Coffeeframe left 14:10 pierre_ joined
dalek c: 1ec05fb | [email@hidden.address] | doc/Language/quoting.pod6:
multiple heredoc beginning in the same line

This is to document the fact that, as in POSIX shell, you can use multiple HEREDOC strings in the same line.		 14:12
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/language/quoting
14:15 pyrimidine left 14:16 pyrimidine joined
El_Che babydrop: I had a blog planned about writing a small script, but due to time constraints at that moment I never published. (I asked for input here, but I haven't integrate the comments yet): claudio.ulyssis.be/var/tmp/p6smallscript.html 14:16
[Coke] avalenn: Wait, you HAVE commit bits to the repo? 14:17
avalenn nope, at least I don't know about it, timotimo commited it
timotimo ah, you're that person
[Coke] guesses he or zoffix should have claimed the chrs/ords ticket.
babydrop ? 14:18
[Coke] oh, dalek is lame and doesn't show committer vs. author.
babydrop: since I gave basically the same reply and rejected the ticket.
timotimo ah, that's what got you confused
well, that's the good thing about git am. it keeps the committer
14:19 cdg joined
[Coke] I was going to say, if you had commit bits, sending the patch was even MORE confusing. 14:19
babydrop Oh heh 14:20
14:21 pyrimidine left
babydrop At least our responses agree :) 14:21
14:21 GHAAUWOL joined
7GHAAUWOL Doc build errored. [email@hidden.address] 'multiple heredoc beginning in the same line 14:21
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/180713230 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/bc67d...c05fbe14c2
timotimo it was unable to find Pod::To::BigPage 14:23
did the ecosystem get b0rked by the addition of a b0rked url or something like that?
babydrop The ecosystem is fine. It's panda that broken. 14:24
Same issue as ufobat had this morning with Test::Mock, I presume. 14:25
Works fine with zef
timotimo potentially 14:27
ufobat well for me zef cant install Task::Star as well, but a different reason, maybe? 14:28
14:29 telex left
ufobat currently i am installing module by module, till i find whats the problem ;) 14:30
one seems to be Terminal.:ANSIColor 14:31
nopaste.me/view/b175459a
babydrop Have you tried using --debug switch instead?
timotimo i'm running ecosystem-api's update.sh now
what's taking it so long? o_O
babydrop ufobat: hm. That was removed from that module's meta 5 days ago :/ 14:32
the problem I mean 14:33
timotimo seems like the update script could really enjoy some fasting-up-attention 14:34
ufobat does the update.sh take more then 5 days or what ;)
timotimo i guess i'll find out once it finishes 14:35
ufobat hehe :D
babydrop timotimo: doesn't it do ~770 HTTP requests to download meta files of each module?
timotimo yeah
it's stopping at 0% cpu usage 14:36
maybe it's trying to be nice to the githubusercontent server by not flooding it with requests?
14:36 maybekoo2 left
babydrop Nope. 14:36
toolforger I do not think that 770 requests are any strain on githubusercontent
Unless that's done from a gazillion machines, anyway
timotimo um ... the update script is written in perl5 14:37
babydrop Yeah
Why "um"? :)
timotimo i can't make that faster by improving rakudo 14:38
it has a suspicious $ua->timeout(10)
babydrop Why suspicious?
timotimo well, could it be timing out? 14:39
i do see some 500 messages
babydrop Not at the same time, and any timeouts would end up being printed at the end
timotimo OK.
14:39 rurban joined
babydrop Here: github.com/perl6/ecosystem/blob/ma...pl#L58-L60 14:39
14:39 itaipu joined 14:40 yeahnoob joined
timotimo OK 14:40
what's the url to get at that .json file via our http server?
babydrop There's one of seatek's modules crapping out: ecosystem-api.p6c.org/errors.json
timotimo nyup 14:41
an extra , before }
in the provides ssection
i'll pullrequest it
babydrop toolate :) 14:42
timotimo dangit
i think instead of re-making the log file for each update we should just concat and logrotate 14:43
14:43 pierre_ left
dalek osystem: fc22aae | (Zoffix Znet)++ | README.md:
List errors.json location too
 14:44
timotimo cool
babydrop: maybe we want buggable to learn about "module blah not found in the ecosystem" errors in travis? 14:46
babydrop Just in case our doc build fails due to that? Pass
timotimo OK
14:47 _28_ria left
babydrop I mean even that error is bogus. That module *is* in ecosystem 14:47
You can see it in ecosystem-api.p6c.org/projects.json 14:48
14:48 brillenfux left
timotimo indeed 14:48
babydrop star: use LWP::Simple; use JSON::Fast; say (from-json LWP::Simple.get: 'ecosystem-api.p6c.org/projects.json').elems 14:49
camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT«734␤»
14:49 pyrimidine joined
babydrop star: use LWP::Simple; use JSON::Fast; say (from-json LWP::Simple.get: 'ecosystem-api.p6c.org/projects.json').grep: *.<name> eq 'Pod::To::BigPage' 14:49
camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT«({author => Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer, depends => [IO::Socket::SSL LWP::Simple], description => Render many pod6-files into one (big) html-file., license => opensource.org/licenses/Artistic-2.0, name => Pod::To::BigPage, provides => {Pod::To::BigPage => l…»
babydrop shrugs
No commits to panda since Oct 22 and it's using JSON fast that has no issues reading teh projects.json 14:50
14:50 cdg_ joined 14:52 cdg left
toolforger I've been looking into the Java classloader stuff 14:53
Turned out that depending on how you set your classloaders up and what kinds of stuff they can load, you either get class incompatibility problems or not 14:54
The way NQP on Java is doing it was fine, so my worries turned out to be unfounded 14:55
On that route, I learned more than I ever wanted to learn about classloading ;-)
one of the thing I did not want to learn: You cannot assume that subclassing ClassLoader will work in every environment 14:56
Applets forbid it
I have no idea how relevant that would be 14:57
Application containers *may* forbid it, and that's really relevant because that's where 90% of Java code lives 14:58
timotimo oof
14:58 telex joined
toolforger sorry for TMIing everybody :-D 14:58
timotimo no problem 14:59
toolforger real question for me is where to take all that info
pmurias are we concerned with supporting Applets? 15:05
15:05 brillenfux joined
toolforger In the Java world, they are mostly considered a security problem 15:05
Still, a lot of these are being used in corporate intranets 15:06
[Coke] pmurias: no, I dont' think we'd care if we didn't run in an applet.
toolforger OTOH most of that is legacy, so no real playground for Perl6
OT3H, you never know how big an ecological niche will be unless you try it
[Coke] we can't support it as is. I wouldn't put in cycles to support applets. 15:07
let's get it working and fully featured in one setting first. :)
toolforger Yeah, probably not worth it
App containers are really important
15:07 bstamour joined
timotimo it seems like the ecosystem updater stops as soon as it finds a single broken json 15:08
toolforger I don't know whether a typical setup allows your own classloaders though
bstamour Has anyone successfully built HTTP::Server::Async on Windows 10?
15:08 wamba joined
timotimo oh, wrong 15:08
it's just that that line that errors is the very last line in the file
babydrop: could URLs that give something other than success be factored into the errors list, too? 15:10
rather than silently being dropped?
15:11 yeahnoob left 15:12 cibs left, cibs joined 15:15 telex left 15:16 telex joined 15:18 cibs left 15:19 cibs joined, geraud left
dalek osystem: 1042dcf | (Zoffix Znet)++ | server/updatelist.pl:
Log failed HTTP requests in errors.json
 15:20
babydrop #Untested
timotimo TYVM
15:21 prammer left
ugexe zef was failing to install Task::Star for ufobat because 1) Terminal::ANSIColor listed `nqp` as a depends until a few days ago 2) ufobat likely had a stale copy of the ecosystem package list which still listed `nqp` as a dependency 3) zef no longer tries to guess pragmas, and puts the onus of a correct `depends` listing on the module authors 4) Terminal::ANSIColor is still versioned at '*', so even if the 15:22
package list alone was updated zef has no way to know its cached copy is stale
timotimo damn
that's a good explanation
it looks like two ecosystem updates are running in parallel right now 15:23
15:24 kurahaupo__ joined 15:25 cibs left
ugexe sounds like it might not be using flock? (flock -n ~/.cron/.lock -c '$command') 15:25
15:25 cibs joined, geraud joined
timotimo i expect someone was naughty like i was and ran the script manually 15:26
15:27 prammer joined
timotimo well, it just started anew 15:28
so there's that
15:31 xinming_ left, skids joined 15:32 cibs left, geraud left, cibs joined
timotimo i wonder why the update log only updates in big batches, rather than line-by-line 15:33
15:33 khw joined, geraud joined
toolforger usually that's because the output is blocked 15:33
timotimo it goes directly into a file, why would it block?
i'd rather assume it gets buffered a whole lot
toolforger I meant buffered 15:34
timotimo oh
how do you tell perl5 to flush on newline?
toolforger don't ask me, my Perl expertise is pretty limited
timotimo mine doesn't exist :) 15:35
babydrop poikes dalek
toolforger Issue with "flush on newline" is that you get a whole lot of blocking IO calls, so do not really want to do that
Usually you want to flush every second or so
for logs, anyway
babydrop timotimo: I commited a fix for that
github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/...866aa3c0cc
timotimo cool!
raw.githubusercontent.'"' expected, at character offset 537 (before "},\n "depends" : ...") at server/updatelist.pl line 29, <$_[...]> line 749. 15:36
it still does that >:(
maybe it's because of stdout vs stderr?
that'd be pretty crappy :)
babydrop Does what?
I'm not following
timotimo raw.githubusercontent.'"' expected, at character offset 537 (before "},\n "depends" : ...") at server/updatelist.pl line 29, <$_[...]> line 749.
com/slobo/Perl6-X11-Xlib-Raw/master/META6.json 200
dalek osystem: cabfdbe | (Zoffix Znet)++ | server/updatelist.pl:
Turn off buffering
timotimo ^- this, in the log
toolforger stdout vs stderr is just a question of default settings if my Posix memory serves me well 15:37
15:37 pyrimidine left
babydrop timotimo: It's this line: github.com/perl6/ecosystem/blob/ma...ist.pl#L47 15:37
timotimo: but what's wrong with it?
timotimo well, yeah. what i mean is that it outputs the urls to stdout, but the warns and stuff go to stdout
babydrop: it splits the url in half
15:37 AlexDaniel joined
babydrop oh 15:37
15:37 pyrimidine joined
timotimo New run at 15:37
Fri Dec 2 15:28:01 UTC 2016
thubusercontent.com/MadcapJake/rab...META6.json 200 15:38
15:38 telex left
timotimo ^- also fantastic 15:38
15:38 geraud left
AlexDaniel babydrop, [Coke]: I have actually confused .chars with .chrs /o\ 15:38
babydrop :)
AlexDaniel: the two responses is just 'cause we responded at the same time... We weren't ganging up :) 15:39
15:39 cibs left
geekosaur something above the level of that script is redirecting stderr to stdout. this combines weirdly with block buffering on non-terminals 15:39
15:39 cibs joined
timotimo when you use a shell's redirect feature, it'll usually give you the same file descriptor for stdout and stderr inside the program 15:39
15:40 geraud joined
timotimo so you get the same semantics as using "say" for all things 15:40
toolforger Not so weirdly - output on nonterminals is buffered at some arbitrary block size, 1k or something
timotimo except the perl5-level file objects may differ and they might not have the same "after i wrote something, i'll flush" setting or something similar
so it's only the same thing on the posix level
toolforger stderr is typically line buffered
15:40 brillenfux left
geekosaur not exactly, no. they remain different file descriptors, they are dup()d together and only linked at kernel level. in particular, fd 2 and fd 3 will be buffered independently 15:41
er, f 1 and fd 2
toolforger so stdout stopped outputting at some multiple of block size, then stderr is interspersed
geekosaur the shell cannot tell it "use fd 1 as your error output"; it always uses fd 2
toolforger what geekosaur says
dalek line-Perl6: 0b671df | niner++ | / (2 files):
Allow for other threads to steal our GC work while we're running Perl 5 code

The very latest moarvm exposes MVM_gc_mark_thread_blocked which we can use to tell the VM that it's safe for other threads to steal our GC work.
geekosaur stderr may well be line buffered by default, though
15:42 pyrimidine left
babydrop timotimo: you can try changing this `warn` to `print` (though then all the stuff will go to STDOUT): github.com/perl6/ecosystem/blob/ma...ist.pl#L47 15:42
babydrop returns to doing work stuff 15:43
geekosaur nor is there any good way to ask whether fd 1 and fd 2 are the same kernel-side handle, aside from evil /proc hackery that is nonportable
dalek line-Perl6: d9816ba | niner++ | Changes:
Version 0.08
15:44 geraud left 15:45 cibs left, cibs joined, geraud joined 15:48 Technaton left
moritz so, two day Perl 6 training is over 15:50
now on my way back, waiting 4 hours at the airport
nine moritz: did you learn a lot? ;)
moritz nine: I hope the students did :-)
nine: I did learn some things; for example that many Perl 5 programmers are far from fully using Perl 5's potential 15:51
there were 3 perl 5 programmers and one very experienced DBA who occasionally also writes code
none of them used unit tests, or any automated testing, for that matter 15:52
Test.pm seemed to really surprised them
never heard of Moose
lucasb_ "Perl 5 programmer who is far from fully using Perl 5's potential" <-- I found a description for myself
moritz no use of map, grep or other functional concepts
15:53 cibs left, geraud left
moritz they liked Perl 6, but I thought I would provided them more value with a p5 craftsmanship course 15:53
(oh, and CGI.pm for web programming)
nine that's kinda sad :/
moritz aye
on the other hand they were bright folks, and open to new ideas
15:54 geraud joined
moritz so I do see hope 15:54
nine Ha! Now that I'm on my way to London, I stumble of the TripAdvisor page for the surprisingly cheap hotel I booked and...the reviews remind me of the disaster I booked the last time I went to LPW :D
moritz :/ 15:55
oh, and they LOVED sub MAIN
i asked them to do small exercises, and the second one included MAIN
babydrop heh, hilarious... one of my coworkers is apparently infected with ransomware... My share I use to transfer large files to them has all the files encrypted with an HTML file saying I need to follow a process to decrypt them :)
moritz and even knowing it's not necessary, and tough I don't mentioned it from there on, most of them used MAIN for nearly all subsequent excercises 15:56
nine :) I'm not surprised. Threading and MOPs are cool but at the end of the day, the things that help me most are builtin IO::Path and MAIN.
Holy cow I almost missed my boading
jnthn o.O 15:57
Please no disaster this time :P
moritz now I feel bad for distracting you. Almost.
:-)
jnthn Have a good flight, nine!
moritz I didn't get into the MOP at all
and had only 5ish slides on promises/channels, a short mention of supplies, and a single excercise
which, on a Friday afternoon, already strained their capacity :-) 15:58
16:00 user9 left
nine This was cloooose 16:01
moritz glad you made it after all! 16:02
timotimo say, if i want to get an impression of how out of tune this piano is, what sequence of keys should i press and record to show to someone with good ears?
nine And why? Becausebthis time I was at the airport so early that I got very comfortable andvrelaxed
moritz nine: I'm very early too; I've set an alarm for when I think check-in will open :-) 16:03
timotimo: my music fu is very weak, but I'd say a selection of harmonic chords, like octave and quart 16:04
timotimo octave sounds easy. it's just the same key one spot over, right?
i remember for some intervals you have to do some fancy math (or rather: learn it by heart) to get the right keys to press 16:05
babydrop same key 12 spots higher. It'll be in the same position if you compare where it's in regard to the black keys
lucs timotimo: just play a chromatic scale (consecutive notes including black and white) up a few octaves.
timotimo yeah, i call that a spot 16:06
yeah i can do that, that sounds doable
babydrop If you have a mic, you can download a software tuner that'll tell you all you wanna know :)
timotimo probably
piano tuner people probably cost a shit-ton of money, right?
babydrop v0v
timotimo can't i do it myself with an android app? :P 16:07
toolforger nope
timotimo anyway, i'll head to the device and record something
toolforger not for piano
16:07 telex joined
[Coke] perhaps find someone from a local music school who needs the practice? 16:07
toolforger You strengthen one string, and all neighbouring strings will slack off a bit
[Coke] (trying to get my son, a music major to find such a person locally for me. :)
lucs timotimo: Well, piano tuning is a complicated skill, eh. And it's quite hard for an amateur to do.
toolforger Pay a piano tuner
lucs What toolforger said. 16:08
toolforger it's expensive but you don't want somebody with no skill to mess it up
because if he does, the professional tuner will need more time
which will cost even more
16:08 geraud left
timotimo tfw you don't even have a sound recording app on your smart phone %) 16:09
toolforger lucs: I know just enough about piano tuning to leave it to experts :-)
lucs toolforger: Me too :)
timotimo this piano hardly ever gets used, though
like, every 10 years perhaps?
toolforger get an electric one then
timotimo nobody in this house plays it, and i'm not over for visits often enough to make it worth it
(and also: not skilled enough at all)
moritz (leaving to the experts) same with me and building nuclear reactors :-)
lucs toolforger: I actually went to the trouble to try to a piano once: very instructive :) 16:10
16:10 acrussell joined
TimToady it's also good to have an electronic piano if you have neighbors that will be bothered 16:10
lucs *try to tune
timotimo hehehe.
TimToady has tuned pianos, having been taught to listen for the beat patterns in the overtones 16:11
toolforger Ah, I didn't try piano tuning
never had an opportunity
didn't go out of my way to get one, either, so there's that
TimToady even owns a tuning hammer and rubber wedges
but yeah, it's still a lot of work
16:11 pyrimidine joined 16:12 bstamour left
TimToady so I usually pay a tuner, unless it's just one or two notes bothering me 16:12
beware of any piano tuner that comes in with a chip on his shoulder about old-fashioned tempering, which will make your piano sound a little brighter in some keys and terrible in other keys 16:13
lucs Equal temperament for all!
TimToady Some temperings are more equal than others... :) 16:14
lucs :)
ilmari www.amazon.com/Equal-Temperament-R...0393334201 # my wife owns a copy of this
16:15 user9 joined
toolforger Real pros have their piano re-tuned for each key, I guess 16:15
they also use Grand Pianos
lucs ilmari: I hope all serious musicians are aware of the shortcomings of equal temperament, and of its advantages. 16:16
TimToady violinists cheat on equal temperament all the time, sometimes on purpose, but usually subconsciously :) 16:17
timotimo i have an audio file
TimToady accidentally, I almost said
toolforger yes, serious musicians know everything about temperings
it's party of the standard theory 16:18
babydrop
.oO( wtf is a tempering... )
toolforger or temperament, not sure what the right term is in English
TimToady either is correct
lucs babydrop: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament 16:19
TimToady English has multiple ways to noun verbs :)
timotimo hack.p6c.org/~timo/piano_tuning.ogg
toolforger babydrop: Issue is that there is one "correct" way to construct a scale such as C-major
timotimo oh no, what have i started ;) 16:20
TimToady a temper tantrum?
16:20 dwarring left
toolforger You start with the base tone, the fifth tone above that is a 3/2 of that frequency, then you fill in the third, and other tones 16:20
This makes a "perfect" temperament for C, which sounds even nicer than what you usually get, harmonies are "more pure" 16:21
timotimo is it normal that the hammer strikes are hella loud in the last two-three octaves?
lucs timotimo: Doesn't sound too catastrophic, and probably playable.
timotimo i don't think this one has been tuned since it was bought
toolforger Problem is that the frequencies don't quite align if you switch to F major
The fifth tone will be off 16:22
the others, too
some harmonies will sounds pretty weird
E major will be pure catastrophe
Equal tempers means that all scales sound pretty well but none sounds perfect 16:23
TimToady I once kicked a piano tuner out of my house; he was almost shouting at me about the evils of equal temperament :)
Ulti timotimo: FYI the env vars weren't mentioned in the current --help message but are on here github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/dev-env-vars
timotimo Ulti: moar's --help, not rakudo's --help 16:24
Ulti ohhhh
who runs moar direct >:3
toolforger Using a "natural temperament" means that different scales will get different character, so you gain musical expressivity as a composer, so yes equal temperament can be considered evil 16:25
lucs Good temperament difference illustrations here: www.youtube.com/watch?v=TBt6APk21tU
TimToady I'm fine with pianos being equal tempered—it makes the rest of us musicians sound better. :) 16:27
Ulti timotimo: mattoates.co.uk/files/perl6/*.log.gz
16:27 thowe left
timotimo thank you 16:29
16:30 geraud joined, cibs joined
TimToady wildest thing I've heard in that vein is when Mahler goes into seven flats; C♭ sound very different from B when an orchestra is playing it 16:30
well, okay, we were really playing in A♭ minor...
and I well remember Eric Kuntzel telling us to play the same note flatter when the key changes around that note in the middle of Romeo and Juliet 16:32
timotimo i saw a youtube video about microtonal music that also featured a piano-like instrument where you could adjust the tuning of each of the keys while playing 16:34
TimToady now the funny thing about the Mahler is that it was the 1st movement of the 10th, which Mahler never got to hear an orchestra play; he only ever heard it on his piano, but I suspect he knew what it would sound like anyway
sorry for yanking you back and forth between Mahler and Tschaikovsky :) 16:35
lucs Reminds me of the different ways tritones can be resolved, and how composers (up to Wagner, Mahler, and the late tonal composers) used it to modulate farther and farther off.
TimToady similar things with resolving an augmented triad 16:36
lucs Same principle I guess.
16:38 prammer left 16:40 brrt left
babydrop Do we have "Option types"? 16:40
timotimo well, our types all have the "nothing" thing in their type object
so basically yes
16:40 cibs left
timotimo but most people associate "having option types" with "the compiler forces you to always provide code to handle both cases" 16:41
at least i do
babydrop Ah
Just saw that mentioned here: www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/5g2...rn_perl_6/
16:41 geraud1 joined
babydrop I kinda notice a surge of Perl 6 users. New faces here. More stuff in r/perl from blogs.perl.org, etc. 16:42
16:43 cibs joined
babydrop hehehe... Backers: 404 www.kickstarter.com/projects/14228...ing-perl-6 16:43
TimToady learning to play well in F♯ major (Mahler's 10th) is also quite a challenge, and late Mahler is so tonally complex that it really just slips in and out of atonality half the time to my ear
TimToady wonders where the atonal bits of Perl 6 are...
as opposed to the tin-ear bits...
timotimo "tin ears"? %) 16:44
16:44 geraud left, domidumont left
TimToady Eh, speak up sonny! 16:44
pmurias what we call "gradual typing" will be sort of a disapointment to someone who comes from Haskell ;/
toolforger OTOH that guy had fun in C and Haskell, so Perl6 might be just the right stuff for him 16:45
TimToady Everything will be a disappointment to someone who comes from Haskell. :)
16:45 g4 left
toolforger of maybe just the worst possible thing ever to happen to him... 16:45
geekosaur has already heard several complaints that "gradual typing" isn't "really" typing
TimToady well, strong typing is really only the 3rd most important reason for typing in Perl 6 16:46
pmurias hopefully real gradual typing will be implemented as a module
TimToady optimization is 2nd, and multiple dispatch is the 1st
geekosaur (of course, the flip side of that is that a haskeller who also works with agda will usually not consider haskell's type system very strong either >.> )
toolforger dislikes multiple dispatch anyway 16:47
babydrop :o
heathen!
toolforger nope
been there, tried that, found it to be nice but inherently incompatible with modularity
TimToady then perhaps it was done poorly :) 16:48
toolforger "inherently incompatible" means "cannot be done well"
TimToady we find it aids modularity in general here
toolforger Well, okay: "modularity, extensibility, multiple dispatch - pick any two" 16:49
as long as you are working out a fixed set of types, MD can be helpful
TimToady perhaps you mean something different by the term
we're not talking about MD at all
toolforger The OO idea of multiple dispatch 16:50
not sure how the Perl idea differs
pyrimidine babydrop: re: the kickstarter, wasn't bdfoy trying to reach 2000 backers?
TimToady we use it more heavily in function space than in method space
pyrimidine has backed it
TimToady sorry, read MD as MI, never mind about the terminology quibble
yes, by MD we generally don't mean MMD (multi-method dispatch) 16:51
toolforger Is the MD tied to subtyping?
TimToady MMD is much less useful than general MD
toolforger Perl's MD, I mean 16:52
16:52 thowe joined
toolforger let me rephrase 16:53
TimToady m: multi describe (Str $s) { say "$s is a string." }; multi describe (Int $i) { say "$i is an integer." }; describe 1; describe "1"
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«1 is an integer.␤1 is a string.␤»
babydrop pyrimidine: yes
TimToady no methods there
toolforger Is Perl's MD using subtyping to select a fallback if there is no explicit definition for the type combination?
TimToady it finds the narrowest unambiguous binding, yes 16:54
pyrimidine babydrop: interesting that there are fewer backers who are willing to pledge more
TimToady so you basically end up with an extensible switch structure spread across modules
toolforger Then it is not extensible in a modular fashion
TimToady it is if you do it right
babydrop pyrimidine: um, a third of the current sum was pledged by a single entity. 16:55
toolforger Depends on what you mean with "do it right"
I seriously doubt that it can be done right; you'd have to redefine the problem in some pretty nonobvious way to evade the logical problems 16:56
babydrop m: say 22846÷403
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«56.689826␤»
pyrimidine babydrop: ah! missed that. I'm just running off the basic stats in my head
TimToady most existing MD systems associate the candidates in some global space, and that's the wrong way
babydrop m: say 37000÷2000
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«18.5␤»
timotimo toolforger: you'll find that arguing with TimToady is like talking to a Wall :P 16:57
toolforger TimToady: Not sure what you mean exactly, but it does have the ring of one of the ways to deal with it
TimToady everything in our functional MD is strictly lexically scoped to the location of a prototype candidate that exists somewhere in lexical space
babydrop pyrimidine: though your premise still holds. Instead of 2000 backers of $20/pop, we have 403 backers giving $56 on average, plus one extremely generous donour
toolforger Okay, let me be a bit more specific 16:58
TimToady and our setting is just lexically scoped to the outside of your code, so in fact almost all of Perl 6 is extensibly defined as MD functions
babydrop timotimo: lol :D
pyrimidine babydrop: yes, still a pretty decent average donation
toolforger Assume you have f(a, b), with possible types A1 and A2 for A and B1 and B2 for b
TimToady which is why we call it a "setting", not a "prelude"
toolforger Does that kind of setup make sense in the context of Perl6's MD?
timotimo i bet TT hasn't heard that joke before, babydrop 16:59
TimToady if you have an ambiguous dispatch, it will fail
babydrop timotimo: oh: Multi-Dispatch. You were asking for a topic to write about
toolforger Ah, then it's unmodular
because you can add a module that adds a dispatch for A3, and one that adds a dispatch for B3, but if you combine the two modules, you will get an ambiguity error 17:00
TimToady okay, you're defining modular as doing magic instead of getting a useful error :)
this is a feature, just as composing two roles with ambiguous methods requires disambiguation in the class
toolforger "Module" = "you can add modules independently of each other unless they have a direct dependency" 17:01
TimToady as opposed to the way mixins work, which just magically does the wrong thing half the time
17:01 suman joined
toolforger Sure the error message is a feature 17:01
suman Perl 6 is awesome.
babydrop toolforger: but what's the better altearntive then? Each module adds a uniquely-named function? Oh, hold on, what if you add two modules that export the same-named function... the import will fail. This stuff's not modular then. 17:02
17:02 firstdayonthejob left
babydrop suman: indeed it is! 17:02
toolforger It's just that the whole MD thing is not modular - somebody who creates A3 may be unaware of B3 and vice versa, but their combined work will cause failures
No really good solution to MD
that's why I said I have a dislike for it ;-P
17:02 pyrimidine left
toolforger Essentially, you pick the least evil 17:02
babydrop toolforger: but same issue exists if your module has subroutine named the same as mine, or any other name clashes. 17:03
timotimo only if it exports those directly, though
toolforger Name clashes can be fought using proper namespace rules
that's essentially a solved problem
suman However we need to improve documentation (possibly with Sphinx) and need a lot of tutorials for beginners. Something like "Introduction to computer science with Perl 6: in coursera or edX. We need some tech guy to make such course. Hope to see one soon.
toolforger Java is a good example for a simplistic but complete solution
babydrop toolforger: but same applies to MD subs
toolforger Nah 17:04
timotimo suman: we're getting a "think like a computer scientist" book for perl6
babydrop toolforger: don't export them to the same namespace and you don't get ambioguioty
toolforger Er
babydrop toolforger: in fact, you can also fight ambiguity with subsets
timotimo babydrop: he's talking about implementing new subclasses, not implementing new candidates
toolforger A3 and B3 objects follow data flow, which tends to cross namespaces
Not necessarily subclasses, just classes that are acceptable as parameter types 17:05
babydrop timotimo: err, then what's the winge about? The subclass wins multi resolution
Fuck it. Don't care. 17:06
toolforger Issue is how to deal with ambiguous cases
timotimo yeah, but what if you have candidates (A1, B1), (A2, B1), and (A1, B2), and someone comes along and builds A3 and B3 in separate
and then someone calls (A3, B3), and it'll complain
toolforger what timotimo says
timotimo well, you already can't call (A2, B2)
suman timotimo Good to hear. One such course in MOOC platforms like coursera would be simply awesome. It would be helpful to people like me who are learning programming. The hot topic nowadays is data science. May be we need some data analysis and graphics modules too like in R and Python. Otherwise its hard to compete in today's market.
timotimo so the problem starts before extension/modules even enter the picture 17:07
toolforger except assuming that (A2, B2) is explicitly covered, but nvm, it's the same problem
timotimo huh?
babydrop sees no problem
timotimo but if (A2, B2) already has a candidate, that will just be called for (A3, B3)
toolforger I assuming that the initial module would cover all four combinations of A1, A2, B1, and B2 17:08
timotimo okay. but then there's no problem at all
toolforger Then dev X would work on A3, and dev Y would work on B3
and then dev Z combines the original module, the A3 one, and the B3 one
and the fallback policy from (A3, B3) is totally ambiguous 17:09
it could be (A2, B2), or (A3, B2), or (A2, B3)
babydrop What are A1 A2 A3? 17:10
timotimo just one lineage of classes
A2 is A1; A3 is A2
ah, you were assuming they also implement those
babydrop But so is A2 and B2 17:11
The ambiguity exists even before dev z done anything
But my actual point is what alternative do you propose for having this feature?? 17:12
I can extend what infix + does, thanks to MMD
toolforger babydrop: no alternative, it's a matter of picking the least evil
babydrop And I can even fight the ambiguity
toolforger: so what's the leaster evil to MD?
toolforger depends on your judgement
babydrop m: multi infix:<+> (Int $x, Int $y) { say $x - $y }; say 2 + 2 17:13
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«Ambiguous call to 'infix:<+>'; these signatures all match:␤:(Int:D \a, Int:D \b --> Int:D)␤:(Int $x, Int $y)␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
babydrop m: multi infix:<+> (Int $x where {True}, Int $y where {True}) { say $x - $y }; say 2 + 2
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«0␤True␤»
babydrop boom
toolforger You can reasonably disagree about what's the least evil
17:13 domidumont joined
toolforger For infix arithmetic, I'd use a "convert to the common base type, then do a single dispatch" strategy 17:13
babydrop 0.o 17:14
TimToady these sorts of collisions tend to arise only when people are choosing stupid names for their functions, or when they use functions when they should be using methods (assuming there is even an OO escape in the language), or when they've designed an overly complicated inheritance hierarchy
or when people overload '+' to mean concatenation :P
but that falls under "choosing stupid names"
babydrop heh
toolforger TimToady assuming that a problem is "just to people doing stupid things" has led to the worst language design disasters that I have seen
Including Eiffel's type hole
TimToady never assumes anything, except when he does 17:15
but all computer languages eventually blame the programmer for something :)
the trick is to push such antisocial behavior into the corners where you seldom run into it 17:16
toolforger Don't blame programmers for deficits in the language
babydrop wonders where such corners in Perl 6 are.
TimToady sure, that's one of our 50 or 60 design principles
thowe there's always a snake in the garden. 17:17
toolforger Well, in this case, it's not necessary to blame programmers
MD simply does not have an elegant, one-size-fits-all solution
Perl's is a reasonable compromise
TimToady nothing has an elegant, one-size-fits-all solution
toolforger Oh yes, some things do
Stacks were an elegant, one-size-fits-all solution to subroutine calls 17:18
TimToady it's precisely the approach of trying to enforce a one-size-fits-all solution that languages end up blaming the programmer too often instead of giving them additional tools
toolforger Take a look at the alternatives
17:18 suman left, firstdayonthejob joined
toolforger E.g. the BALR = "branch and link register" instruction on the /360 architecture 17:18
17:19 labster joined
TimToady stacks don't work well with continuations :P 17:19
toolforger Algol's type system was an elegant, one-size-fits-all solution to the question how to compose arrays and generally set up structured data 17:20
Yeah, you go back to the BALR approach for continuations, I'll give you that :-D
"fits-all" is usually meant to mean "fits all the common use cases"
for some definition of "common" 17:21
TimToady yes, and our MD seems to do that so far
toolforger which is pretty different for LISPers than for others :-D
Your MD has been used mostly for system design, not for library design
17:22 labster left
toolforger and Perl6's MD isn't going to fit well for extending libraries 17:22
TimToady but then we encourage people to use OO namespaces as well as FP spaces when they make sense, and to not abuse overloading
toolforger Just saying - people will work around that
geekosaur BAL/BALR worked fine until Algol ruined everything! :p
toolforger question is whether the workarounds are more or less elegant than they could have been with a different approach 17:23
That's pretty hard to tell
TimToady sure, which is why we want a malleable language into the future
toolforger Is a redesign for the MD mechanism a serious option? 17:24
TimToady you can pick a different functional or method dispatcher in any given lexical scope, in the design, even if it's currently harder than strictly necessary 17:25
the "current language" defines that, and we regard the current language as strictly lexically scoped
toolforger Is the dispatch mechanism lexically bound to the called function?
17:25 pyrimidine joined
TimToady no, that would be changing someone else's language out from under tham; it's bound to the callsite, if I understand your question properly 17:26
and, in fact, the candidate list for any given MD is generated as of the lexical scope at the call site 17:27
so it's entirely up to the current language how that works
babydrop :o
TimToady we really do take it seriously that you could say 'use COBOL; IDENTIFICATION DIVISION...' 17:28
and do it all with one-pass parsing, btw 17:29
toolforger I don't have that seriously ;-P
s/have/take/ 17:30
Still... dispatch rules should be associated with called function; otherwise the called function's semantics depends on the call site, and that makes it horribly difficult to decide what a piece of code does if its semantics depends on call site 17:31
TimToady the p6 parser takes it seriously, insofar as it drops into various extensible sublanguages for parsing things like quotes, regex, etc
toolforger but what do I know :-D
timotimo the called function is still allowed to enforce some constraints 17:32
TimToady no function in Perl 6 really cares how it was dispatched to, which is why methods are really just functions that have been poked where a different dispatcher can get to them
timotimo like, you can't just call a function that expects 10 arguments with no arguments and expect it to not throw an exception
toolforger Hmm... well, maybe the scope of a function's semantics is different then... the dispatch mechanism plays a big role in what preconditions a function can expect to be met 17:33
In a strictly-OO language, that's some pretty strong guarantees and this eases coding the functions significantly; Perl is setting different goals here, so the usual dos and don'ts apply 17:34
s/apply/do not apply/
TimToady Render unto OO the things that are OO's, and unto FP the things that are FP's. :) 17:35
toolforger Yeah, many OO issues seem to be nonexistent in the FP world
TimToady they sweep their dirt under different carpets :) 17:36
toolforger Don't know enough about FP in practice to really talk about the deal there
toolforger would really like to code in Haskell for real for a year or so 17:37
TimToady ah yes, wandering around in the monadic lifestyle :) 17:38
toolforger Nah
TimToady Well, Haskell is easy to learn—I've done it six times already...
toolforger Haskell isn't about monads
just as arithmetic isn't about associativity
17:39 pyrimidine left
toolforger :-) 17:39
17:39 pyrimidine joined
TimToady the apostle Paul warns us not to quibble about words :) 17:39
toolforger Paulism is commonly overrated :-D:-D:-D 17:41
TimToady I wasn't claiming identity of X and Y, but just "you can't do X without knowing about Y"
which is true of both monads and associativity
toolforger Sure
it's just that Haskell isn't a monadic lifestyle
TimToady if you say so :) 17:42
toolforger I'd consider getting practice with Haskell a failure if all I learned was grokking monads
there's also Arrows :P 17:43
TimToady my main quibble with Haskell is that it uses up words much too quickly :)
toolforger and actually a whole different way to structuring your code
TimToady and that's because points-free code is so difficult for mere mortals to grok 17:44
toolforger In my dreams, it's as easy to add a new category to Haskell 2.0 as it is to add a module to current-day Haskell - and people wouldn't even notice that category theory is involved
17:44 buggable left
TimToady yes, well, Haskell could be thought of as kind of a proof that abstractions have an opportunity cost :P 17:44
toolforger Such as monads? 17:45
perlpilot I learned monads at one point, then promptly forgot about them because I didn't relate them to Perl ;) 17:46
TimToady well, one of the other issues is that if you aren't as smart as the type inferencer, you're not smart enough
dalek osystem: f2080ca | timo++ | server/updatelist.pl:
pretty-print errors output

as it's meant to be seen by humans, mostly		 17:51
toolforger Decoding type inferencer error messages is one of the thing that would be interesting to learn
I'd want to compare how well this works in other languages with a nontrivial type system 17:52
so I guess I'd have to add a year of Clean or something
Scala, maybe - not sure whether its inferencer is worth anything
17:53 girafe joined 17:54 baest left
babydrop samcv++ # Fixing Perl 6 syntax highlighter 17:54
17:54 nicq20 joined
timotimo oh? tell me more about that! 17:54
[Coke] babydrop, samcv: on... github? 17:55
[Coke] says some very rude things to a telemarketer, and only regrets it a little.
toolforger approves 17:57
babydrop Yes, it is the highlighter used by GitHub too 17:58
github.com/MadcapJake/language-perl6fe/pull/43
[Coke] samcv++ excellent.
17:58 baest joined 18:00 toolforger left
TimToady unfortunately, the leaves on the telemarketer tree are usually just poor people trying to eke out a living; it's the higher nodes in the tree that really need to be said rude things to 18:00
babydrop enjoys the Do Not Call list 18:01
No rude things need ever be said :)
TimToady the Do Not Call list is completely broken in the US
babydrop too bad :(
18:02 buggable joined, lukaramu joined
babydrop Well, reddit once again, successfully raised my blood pressure. 18:02
18:03 pyrimidine left
babydrop I'm starting to think I just hate people in general, and should just crawl into a hole and code all day. 18:03
AlexDaniel oooooooooooohh it is a highlighter used by github
I didn't think about it this way…
how often do they update it? 18:04
samcv: thank you very much! 18:05
18:05 labster joined
AlexDaniel I have never thought that one day whateverable sources will start rendering correctly on github… :) 18:06
[Coke] m: require 6.c 18:07
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No such method 'c' for invocant of type 'Any'␤»
[Coke] babydrop: the rudeness was about their response to my politely asking them to put me on their do not call list.
m: require v6.c
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No such method 'c' for invocant of type 'Any'␤»
AlexDaniel LTA 18:08
18:08 nicq20 left
[Coke] does perl 6 have an equivalent of p5's "require VERSION" ? 18:09
TimToady well, I suppose that since the global Do Not Call apparatus has broken down, some telemarketers feel they don't have to follow the local rules either, so in that case I might've been rude too :)
pmurias babydrop: besides a few very niche places (like the perlish subreddit) people on reddit tend be really despicable 18:10
[Coke] This guy was actually trying to logic me out of it, since he works in a call center, and HE didn't call me, but some other system connected the call...
TimToady may well be under explicit directions from his boss to ignore the law 18:11
18:11 pyrimidine joined
TimToady since it's pretty much never enforced 18:11
and sewage tends to flow downhill to fill out the business plan 18:12
timotimo m: use v6.c 18:13
camelia ( no output )
timotimo right. definitely LTA error
AlexDaniel .tell MadcapJake is it resolved now? github.com/github/linguist/issues/2909 18:14
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to MadcapJake.
dalek c: 0d6d172 | coke++ | doc/ (5 files):
Remove some seemingly wishy-washy statements.

Closes #619
AlexDaniel [Coke]++ 18:15
babydrop m: 'use v6.c'.EVAL; 18:17
camelia ( no output )
babydrop m: say "wooo"; 'use v6.d'.EVAL;
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«wooo␤5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /home/camelia/EVAL_0␤No compiler available for Perl v6.d␤at /home/camelia/EVAL_0:1␤------> 3use v6.d7⏏5<EOL>␤»
moritz btw github.com/moritz/perl6-training-de has the materials I used for the Perl 6 course 18:18
it's all German, you've been warned :-)
babydrop no sprehen ze deuch
moritz the .odp and .pdf files contain the slides, the rest is mostly example scripts I either used in the slides, or developed on-screen while explaining what I did 18:19
babydrop m: sub require (Version $v) { so try "use $v".EVAL }; say require v6.c; say require v6.d; 18:20
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«False␤False␤»
babydrop m: sub require (Version $v) { so try "use $v; 1".EVAL }; say require v6.c; say require v6.d;
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«False␤False␤»
babydrop :(
m: sub require (Version $v) { so try "use $v.gist(); 1".EVAL }; say require v6.c; say require v6.d; 18:21
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»
babydrop \o/
dalek c: a5ca28f | coke++ | STYLEGUIDE.md:
Add a note about documenting spec vs. un-spec'ed.

Closes #835		 18:22
babydrop huggable: speed 18:24
huggable babydrop, nothing found
18:26 FROGGS joined
babydrop What's the URL to Tux' speed charts? 18:26
tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed4.html
huggable: speed :is: tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed4.html 18:27
huggable babydrop, Added speed as tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed4.html
moritz tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed5.html has also been found in the logs
timotimo maybe we should also put the little piece of code in that renders the speed results as a little unicode block graph thingie
moritz it's getting to a point where we should ask [Tux]++ to scale the y axis logarithmically 18:28
18:28 krokib left
moritz timotimo: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/2016-1...i_13546696 18:28
babydrop huggable: speed chart :is: star: use LWP::Simple; my @recent = LWP::Simple.get('tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed.log').lines...rds[*-1]); my ($min, $max) = @recent.min, @recent.max; my $range = max($max - $min, .1 * $min, .25); my @bar = (^8 + 0x2581)>>.chr; my $spark = @recent.map({ @bar[(($_ - $min) / $range * (@bar - 1)).round] }).join; print $spark ~ " $min .. {$min + $range}"; 18:29
huggable babydrop, Added speed chart as star: use LWP::Simple; my @recent = LWP::Simple.get('tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed.log').lines...rds[*-1]); my ($min, $max) = @recent.min, @recent.max; my $range = max($max - $min, .1 * $min, .25); my @bar = (^8 + 0x2581)>>.chr; my $spark = @recent.map({ @bar[(($_ - $min) / $range * (@bar - 1)).round] }).join; print $spark ~ " $min .. {$min + $range}";
babydrop star: use LWP::Simple; my @recent = LWP::Simple.get('tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed.log').lines...rds[*-1]); my ($min, $max) = @recent.min, @recent.max; my $range = max($max - $min, .1 * $min, .25); my @bar = (^8 + 0x2581)>>.chr; my $spark = @recent.map({ @bar[(($_ - $min) / $range * (@bar - 1)).round] }).join; print $spark ~ " $min .. {$min + $range}";
camelia star-m 2016.10: OUTPUT«▅▃▄▂▁▆▃▂▅▂▄▃█▃▄▄▆▄▅▃▄▃▄▄▃▄▃▃▃▃ 6.238 .. 7.175»
[Coke] AlexDaniel: since you closed all the NOTSPECCED tickets, can we remove that label? 18:30
AlexDaniel NO
timotimo that one
does it fit together with a :is: piece?
cool.
AlexDaniel [Coke]: that was my point, basically
timotimo now if it could immediately m: it instead of telling it to you ... 18:31
AlexDaniel [Coke]: we still want to have a list of things that might need documentation
[Coke] that's what [doc] is for.
AlexDaniel I mean notspecced things 18:32
[Coke] if they are not spec'd, they shouldn't be doc'd.
AlexDaniel that's why the issues are closed
[Coke] (at least when we're talking about things like types and methods and subs)
so if we agree on that, why keep the label?
s/[doc]/[docs]/ 18:33
AlexDaniel so that you can have a list for things that some people wanted to be documented, but they were not specced at the time
of things*
it's a label for closed tickets, as I see it
… is it a bad idea? 18:34
psch aren't labels orthogonal to the closedness of a ticket?
AlexDaniel … rename it to "reopen when specced"?
[Coke] that seems like a bad idea. then we have to keep going through closed tickets and re-opening them. I'd rather a workflow that didn't go through the closed state. 18:35
AlexDaniel you don't have to do that if you don't want to :)
18:35 bstamour joined 18:36 travis-ci joined
travis-ci Doc build passed. Will "Coke" Coleda 'Remove some seemingly wishy-washy statements. 18:36
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/180783729 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/1ec05...6d1724fb66
18:36 travis-ci left
[Coke] if a request for docs comes in for something that isn't spec'd, the decision tree is: "should this be spec'd" or "should it not be". - the workflow from that point should be: 18:36
AlexDaniel as I see it, people come and open tickets that more or less make sense. And we go “No, it's not specced, GTFO, issue closed”. The label at least gives some hope…
18:37 buggable left
[Coke] if yes, it should, feel free to document it immediately, but also open a roast ticket that it's missing tests. 18:37
18:37 buggable joined
[Coke] if no, then reject the ticket, and open a rakudo ticket that something is exposed that shouldn't be. 18:37
AlexDaniel [Coke]: that's something new
babydrop there's a ton of such stuff 18:38
(the exposed)
buggable: speed
buggable babydrop, ▅▃▄▂▁▆▃▂▅▂▄▃█▃▄▄▆▄▅▃▄▃▄▄▃▄▃▃▃▃ range: 6.238 .. 7.175
babydrop timotimo: ^
[Coke] nine: could write up a paragraph on "what is precompilation" for the docs?
AlexDaniel as far as I remember, the consensus was that we don't document things if they are not in roast. Even if there is a ticket.
samcv or there's things that are just, not defined in the specs… like they should be, or not clear enough. and somebody has to decide what they do
timotimo cool!
how did you do that? :)
[Coke] AlexDaniel: my workflow doesn't change that, it just includes the compiler authors and spec writers in the process. 18:39
samcv before adding tests, idk that would prolly be open, not closed. but
babydrop Magic ;)
samcv i'm sure it really depends
AlexDaniel [Coke]: is this workflow documented somewhere?
timotimo i like magic 18:40
[Coke] AlexDaniel: I just committed something very similar in STYLEGUID.md based on a ticket asking about this that has dragged on for a while. 18:41
AlexDaniel [Coke]: “We should not document everything. It's not up to the docs team to decide what's in the specification, that's up to the development team”
18:41 travis-ci joined
travis-ci Doc build passed. Will "Coke" Coleda 'Add a note about documenting spec vs. un-spec'ed. 18:41
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/180785588 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/0d6d1...ca28f7da45
18:41 travis-ci left
[Coke] (#835) 18:41
Feel free to clean it up or offer alternative suggestions. (we can even reopen the ticket if we need to) 18:42
AlexDaniel so yea, I'm completely lost…
psch m: say Rakudo::Internals::.keys
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«(ShapeLeafIterator CompilerServices BlobbyIterator DwimIterator ShapedArrayCommon WhateverIterator MappyIterator SupplySequencer JSON ShapeBranchIterator WeightedRoll SprintfHandler VMBackedDecoder MappyIterator-values)␤»
psch ^^^ those probably shouldn't be documented :)
dalek c: cea2e21 | coke++ | STYLEGUIDE.md:
fix typo
 18:43
psch and, similarly, aren't in roast
babydrop there's a ton of ALLCAPS stuff that just needs to be moved to R::I
psch right, that too 18:44
babydrop m: say UNBASE 'FF'
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling UNBASE(Str) will never work with any of these multi signatures:␤ (Int:D $base, Any:D $num) ␤ (Int:D $base, Str:D $str)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say 7⏏5UNBASE 'FF'␤»
psch m: say &SEQUENCE
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«sub SEQUENCE (\left, Mu \right, :$exclude_end) { #`(Sub|75643256) ... }␤»
[Coke] Right. those would probably fall under the "hide, don't document" path.
and maybe we document R::I only to say "compiler guts. do not even." 18:45
18:45 chanel joined
[Coke] AlexDaniel: so how can we get us back on the same page? Which part needs a better explanation by me? 18:45
18:46 chanel is now known as Guest11508, vike left 18:47 buggable left
AlexDaniel [Coke]: if somebody created a doc ticket for something that is not tested in roast, what should I do? 18:48
[Coke] (or, assuming I explained it and it's just wrong, what needs changing?)
18:48 buggable joined
babydrop buggable: speed 18:48
buggable babydrop, ▆▇██▇█▅▅▆▇▅▇▆▃▃▅▂▂▂▂▅▃▄▂▁▆▃▂▅▂▄▃█▃▄▄▆▄▅▃▄▃▄▄▃▄▃▃▃▃ data for 2016-10-28–2016-12-02; variance: 6.238s–7.181s
18:48 labster left
AlexDaniel [Coke]: my idea was: close the ticket, mark as NOTSPECCED, create a roast issue if makes sense 18:48
[Coke] AlexDaniel: ask the spec/compiler authors if its omission from roast is deliberate or not.
AlexDaniel and reopen once it is in roast
[Coke] ok. once you close the ticket, how do you know whether to ever open it again?
I would suggest leaving it open with a link to the roast issue. then when that issue is closed, you have a clear action. 18:49
otherwise you still have to track when the roast issue is closed, but now you have no easy way to do it.
AlexDaniel well, github shows backlinks quite nicely 18:50
so anyone closing the roast issue should probably see that something needs to be reopened, I guess
but if not, due to NOTSPECCED label we will probably notice it later 18:51
psch doesn't understand why the doc ticket has to be closed inbetween
[Coke] Then we're relying on whoever closed the roast ticket (who may have done so via a commit message) to poke around in the doc queue.
babydrop Yeah
[Coke] yah, let's back up: what's the point of closing the ticket?
babydrop And the roast issue can be closed via a commit, by someone who first saw the issue via email notification
AlexDaniel well, initially I was saying that we should doc obvious things even if not specced
gfldex has a strong opposition to this, and in the end I agreed 18:52
babydrop Sure. makes sense.
AlexDaniel then a bunch of NOTSPECCED issues were created
18:52 Guest11508 left
AlexDaniel so much that it floods the queue more than it would be acceptable, IMO 18:52
so [Coke] marked them all as NOTSPECCED so that it's easier to navigate through this mess 18:53
[Coke] yup. with the tag, I can easily ignore them while working on other things.
18:53 edghto joined
AlexDaniel then I said “ok, well, if there's nothing we can do, let's close them all, but keep them marked just in case” 18:53
[Coke] so I'm fine if they stay open that way.
babydrop AlexDaniel: what do you mean by nothing you can do? 18:54
[Coke] esp since now there is a plan.
AlexDaniel babydrop: well, what can we do with MONKEY-WRENCH not being specced?
from the standpoint of the doc team
babydrop m: use MONKEY-WRENCH;
camelia ( no output )
moritz m: use MONKEY-ANYTHING; 18:55
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find MONKEY-ANYTHING at line 1 in:␤ /home/camelia/.perl6␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/site␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/vendor␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6␤ CompUni…»
18:55 wamba left
AlexDaniel m: use MONKEY-SHINE; 18:55
camelia ( no output )
AlexDaniel wtf?
bisect: use MONKEY-SHINE;
bisectable6 AlexDaniel, On both starting points (old=2015.12 new=abc6439) the exit code is 0 and the output is identical as well
AlexDaniel, Output on both points:
AlexDaniel I thought it printed a NYI warning
bisect: use MONKEY-BARS;
bisectable6 AlexDaniel, Bisecting by exit code (old=2015.12 new=abc6439). Old exit code: 1
AlexDaniel, bisect log: gist.github.com/d9e7378cb3acb66be6...d2a0943957 18:56
AlexDaniel, (2016-06-06) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/31...1bd89aed6c
[Coke] Ask the dev/spec team why it's reserved and presents that way.
AlexDaniel [Coke]: ok, so in other words, you want to reopen all these tickets?
babydrop AlexDaniel: interesting. Well, in this particular case it's a pragma reserved for future use. So IMO it's fine to documented as that, even tho it's not specced.
18:57 labster joined
psch it could be added to roast as a simple "doesn't die" test 18:57
[Coke] AlexDaniel: until we know if it's something that needs to eventually be doc'd or not, yes.
babydrop psch++ that's a good idea
psch which also already adds a point for the future feature
[Coke] babydrop: I would argue that it still needs a test in roast to show it's reserved.
psch s/$/ and test/
[Coke] ... psch++ (coke too slow) 18:58
babydrop [Coke]: fair enough. I just couldn't think of what the test would be, but I like psch++'s idea
AlexDaniel [Coke]: well, I was kinda influenced by babydrop complaints that having lots of open tickets is shitty, but if we say it's not, then…
babydrop :(
AlexDaniel what?
psch having open tickets is kind of shitty, yes, but closing them without actually resolving the underlying issue doesn't really add anything there
babydrop AlexDaniel: just making a mental note to self to complain less :) 18:59
psch it just muddles the open/closed distinction
TimToady
.oO(We shouldn't resolve to be more resolute till New Year's Day...)
babydrop m: package MONKEY-WRENCH { sub foo is export { 42; } }; import MONKEY-WRENCH; foo
camelia ( no output )
babydrop m: package MONKEY-WRENCH { sub foo is export { 42; } }; import MONKEY-WRENCH; say foo
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«42␤»
babydrop v0v
I guess I'm not `use`ing anything 19:00
psch right, that's different code paths
TimToady m: use MONKEY-WRENCH; 19:01
camelia ( no output )
TimToady m: use MONKEY-DOODOO;
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find MONKEY-DOODOO at line 1 in:␤ /home/camelia/.perl6␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/site␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/vendor␤ /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6␤ CompUnit:…»
[Coke] I mean, those particular ones are all TimToady++s fault, I think. :)
babydrop :D
AlexDaniel [Coke]: done. 19:02
19:02 vike joined, xinming joined
[Coke] AlexDaniel: yes, my phone just vibrated for 40s straight. :) 19:03
AlexDaniel ♥ Github mass actions
19:04 MadcapJake left 19:06 firstdayonthejob left, pyrimidine left
AlexDaniel
.oO( lesson learned: when discussions take too long, go and do something stupid. Proper resolution of the issue will follow shortly )
 19:06
19:07 dwarring joined
[Coke] mmhehehe 19:08
timotimo i think i missed something ... 19:09
moritz turns out Berlin Tegel airport has 1h of free wifi -- per MAC address and browser session :-)
timotimo hehehe
19:12 darutoko left
RabidGravy BOOM! 19:14
AlexDaniel ? 19:15
19:15 BuildTheRobots left
TimToady Q: Why is the boom called a boom? A: Just stand right there next time we tack into the wind. 19:16
RabidGravy It's Friday, I'm sat on my sofa with a beer and I just got paid for breaking someones software for a month 19:17
TimToady you shouldn've broken it longer
*should've
RabidGravy oh there's so much more to break ;-) 19:18
dalek c: 57355ef | coke++ | doc/Type/Promise.pod6:
remove reference to sub start.

Closes #874		 19:19
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Promise
19:19 bstamour` joined
geekosaur ...so are you suggesting I should just do the Callable thing and damn v6.c compat? (somehow I suspect not... it's tempting though, I really would like the better compile time errors) 19:19
RabidGravy damn the 6.c compat, if there are downstream users send them patches ;-) 19:20
19:21 labster left
geekosaur yeh. I'm not sure it changes anything in practice aside from turning some runtime errors into compile time like they really ought to be 19:21
timotimo i'm almost tempted to dogfood our projects.json updater ...
19:22 cdg_ left
RabidGravy when I start getting bug reports from people who aren't on this channel, then I'll start worrying about things like that ;-) 19:22
geekosaur (for those playing along from home, I want to turn CALL-ME into an internal thing that is only exposed as a method of Callable, and then stick Callable constraints on all the current uses in nqp-land)
19:23 bstamour left, lucasb_ left
geekosaur (because while something like 5() is fairly obvious, it's possible to get some rather non-obvious runtime failures that could easily be caught at compile time with a more Awesome error message) 19:23
RabidGravy so ... CALL-ME() will only work for Callables? Not a problem for me, I'm pretty certain that's the only place I've used it 19:24
however I have seen it used as a poor persons coercion thingy somewhere 19:25
though that was a while ago
timotimo aturon.github.io/blog/2016/08/11/futures/ - rust's futures and streams are quite like our promises and supplies, but they don't have a "supply/whenever" equiv yet (at that point anyway)
geekosaur I recall discussion of that, and it's (a) the thing that worries me about the change and (b) what first got me thinking about why such a thing is not properly documented or anything 19:26
RabidGravy I had to explain to someone how Scala's futures worked to someone yesterday 19:27
er
geekosaur (note the current docs have it --- but they're based on my musings about this, and do not reflect the actual implementation!)
...which, if anything, I like even less... 19:28
RabidGravy well if someone is actually using that trick and they aren't making their thingy a Callable it's a fairly trivial change
and frankly I don't think it's documented as working, it just *does* work atm
19:28 nadim left 19:29 nadim_ joined, nadim_ left
geekosaur it wasn't documented at all until the incorrect docs citing it as part of Callable were added 19:29
RabidGravy is it actually tested as working?
psch it's in roast
19:30 nadim_ joined
psch S13-overloading/operators.t for example defines a method CALL-ME 19:30
19:30 nadim_ left
RabidGravy m: class Foo is Int { method CALL-ME($foo) { return 98 } }; say Foo("bar"); 19:30
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«98␤»
psch and typecasting-long.t in the same directory too
RabidGravy that one is what we are talking about right?
19:34 notbenh_ left, mithaldu_ left, SmokeMachine____ left, olinkl left, kipd left
dalek : 90d29c0 | (Nadim Khemir)++ | misc/perl6advent-2016/schedule:
Take a slot in 2016 advent calender
 19:34
: efc7c4b | moritz++ | misc/perl6advent-2016/schedule:
Merge pull request #20 from nkh/master

Take a slot in 2016 advent calender
19:34 nadim_ joined, nadim_ left
babydrop \o/ 19:35
AlexDaniel “More months have passed.”
time flies
timotimo hah :D
19:35 nadim_ joined, nadim_ left
timotimo now all i have to do is find otu what day i'll manage to get my post written for 19:35
AlexDaniel timotimo: 10 looks just about right :P 19:36
timotimo what about the posts above it?
i might be able to do 9, or if i get lucky 8 or if things absolutely go my way, the 7th 19:37
geekosaur RabidGravy, yes
timotimo when this ps3 is updated and i can use it as a media center to play some loud music loudly, i'll see about starting the hacking process
geekosaur so I'd also have to revise roast... which again gets back to "this impacts 6.c" 19:38
timotimo oh, i haven't even read today's advent post yet!
19:38 nadim_ joined 19:39 nadim_ left
RabidGravy right, I didn't realise it was tested for 19:39
my instinct would be to can it though, maybe after a quick grep of the ecosystem
[Coke] ` 19:40
babydrop Right, take 7-9 spots first. Those are "emergency fillers" in case we don't get volunteers to add a post per day
And move the fillers further down
timotimo does somebody want to try to add syntax highlighting to kyclark's post from today?
babydrop (or remove them if there's no more space for them) 19:41
19:42 nadim_ joined, labster joined
babydrop RabidGravy: if it's in 6.c, we're not canning it. The change would be a proposal for 6.d. 19:42
19:42 nadim_ left, labster left
babydrop Which we currently have this file to put them into: github.com/perl6/specs/blob/master/v6d.pod 19:43
huggable: v6.d :is: Proposed changes for Perl 6 v6.d: github.com/perl6/specs/blob/master/v6d.pod 19:44
huggable babydrop, Added v6.d as Proposed changes for Perl 6 v6.d: github.com/perl6/specs/blob/master/v6d.pod
19:44 SmokeMachine____ joined, nadim_ joined 19:45 nadim_ left, Madcap^Jake^ joined 19:46 Madcap^Jake^ is now known as MadcapJake
RabidGravy but I don't have a proposal 19:48
19:48 nadim_ joined
geekosaur I'm the one who had the proposal... 19:49
19:49 mithaldu_ joined, nadim_ left 19:50 nicq20 joined
babydrop The point is 6.c is our promise to users the features can be relied upon and will work as tested. It's not a promise to ecosystem authors that we can quickly-grep-and-can stuff :) 19:52
19:52 nadim_ joined, nadim_ left 19:53 MadcapJake left
RabidGravy right, then I'll put it like this, I think that geekosaur's proposall is a good one, in that allowing CALL-ME to work on something that isn't a Callable is a design flaw 19:53
psch which means we need a new coercer proposal 19:54
19:54 BuildTheRobots joined
psch oh, and Junction has to does Callable too 19:54
the latter is probably fine-ish, the former... well, it's come up :) 19:55
geekosaur see, this kind of stuff is why I sent my proposal to the mailing list a couple weeks back (and got back confusion and who-cares?...)
babydrop RabidGravy: um, what about allowing AT-POS on something that isn't an Iterable or AT-KEY on something that isn't an Associative?
m: class Foo { method AT-POS ($) { say "meow" } }; Foo.new[42]
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«meow␤»
babydrop m: class Foo { method AT-KEY ($) { say "meow" } }; Foo.new{42} 19:56
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«meow␤»
geekosaur that said, to me a coercer looks like a method call, so I don't see why it shouldn't be considered a Callable
psch geekosaur: a coercer isn't a method call
m: say (Int("42")).WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
geekosaur ok, or sub call
psch so all types are automatically Callable, because they could implement coercers 19:57
19:57 nadim_ joined, ufobat left, nadim_ left, avalokite joined 19:58 avalokite left, avalokite joined
geekosaur hm, so where are coercers documented? 19:58
psch docs.perl6.org/syntax/Coercion%20Type 19:59
which is a bit slim
19:59 avalokite left
geekosaur because "could implement" suggests to me that wants to be a Role (which in turn would `does Callable`) 19:59
20:00 kipd joined
geekosaur ...which again could usefully turn a run time error into a compile time error 20:00
psch mind, i actually like the idea of narrowing CALL-ME towards Callable
exactly because it does force us to rework coercers
maybe that's just a COERCE method that gets called similarly to how CALL-ME gets called now, maybe it's a plan about how to shift coercion to the target type instead of the original type, maybe even something else that works even better 20:01
20:01 nadim_ joined 20:02 nadim_ left
dalek c: 97780f3 | Altai-man++ | doc/Language/classtut.pod6:
Add a search anchor for "OOP" (closes #724)

See github.com/perl6/doc/issues/724#is...-264547682		 20:03
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/language/classtut
psch as of now, i'm resign to "if $val.Target doesn't work, try Target.new($val)", which goes pretty much where we have the CALL-ME fallback right now
in BOOTSTRAP.nqp that
s/resign/resigned/
[Coke] (mailing list) no design discussions for Perl 6 happen on mailing lists at this opint.
psch but that still seems unsufficiently awesome, intuitively vOv
20:04 nadim_ joined
[Coke] raise it in #perl6-dev until someone says boo. 20:04
20:04 nadim_ left 20:06 nadim_ joined, nadim_ left 20:07 olinkl joined
AlexDaniel [Coke]: what is Hacktoberfest, by the way? 20:07
like, why would we have a label like this? What does it mean? 20:08
samcv AlexDaniel, these are all the things I fixed in the last PR to atom syntax highlight github.com/MadcapJake/language-perl6fe/pull/43 20:10
geekosaur also remembering now a discussion from a month or so back involving confusion about coercers; need to dig that out of logs
timotimo AlexDaniel: i think it was "these issues are good for outsiders who just want to get a pull request in"
samcv if anybody uses atom can check out my branch and test it out, or any suggestions for things I may have missed that are not listed there or here github.com/MadcapJake/language-perl6fe/pull/42
AlexDaniel timotimo: how is that different from LHF?
timotimo it isn't, but it might give discoverability 20:11
AlexDaniel :-/
timotimo i.e. you could perhaps stumble upon us if you just search for "hacktoberfest"
i'm not saying we want to keep it
babydrop AlexDaniel: yearly event organized by Digital Ocean: submit any 3 (?) PR on GitHub and receive a free shirt. To make it easier for contributors to find repos participating in the event, the organizers suggest the use of label Hacktoberfest
timotimo re-name it LHF if possible?
20:11 nadim_ joined
AlexDaniel ok so I mark them all as LHF and remove the label? 20:11
babydrop AlexDaniel: it's over for this year, tho, and won't start again auntil October 1st, 2017
AlexDaniel or what do we want?
babydrop AlexDaniel: just leave them until next year? 20:12
AlexDaniel O_o
babydrop What?
samcv what shirt do you get though?
20:12 nadim_ left
babydrop I mean the issue will either be closer or be still good enough next Hacktober 20:12
Why remove it just to re-add it next year
timotimo samcv: probably a shirt some random developer no longer wants to wear because it's torn or has started to smell or something :P 20:13
babydrop samcv: this one was last years: www.digitalocean.com/company/blog/...b728de.png
This year the design is different
20:13 nadim_ joined, nadim_ left
babydrop Oh, it's 4 PRs and get a shirt 20:13
timotimo you know, raw.githubusercontent.com probably supports an "If-Modified-Since" header 20:14
AlexDaniel so why are they doing it? :)
babydrop AlexDaniel: to promote their company.
timotimo because they want to be known by people
AlexDaniel so why do we participate in promoting their company?
babydrop AlexDaniel: we get unpaid labour fixing stuff
AlexDaniel how much unpaid labour did we get this year? 20:15
20:15 notbenh_ joined
babydrop There were a few users 20:15
geekosaur same question could be asked about GSoC...
nicq20 AlexDaniel: I made a could edits to the traps section of the docs because of it.
babydrop \o/
nicq20 s/could/couple/
AlexDaniel oh well
babydrop timotimo: it's actually a decent shirt. They sent me two last year. I still wear them to work sometimes :) 20:16
...and I'm glad this year's design is much more subtle...
nicq20 AlexDaniel: It's basically a nice incentive to give people an extra push to actually do something.
Everyone loves a free shirt! :D
AlexDaniel so why can't we just slap Hacktoberfest on all LHF issues each year? 20:17
… yea? 20:18
babydrop I didn't equate LHF to Hacktoberfest when I labeled Issues this year.
Some of them aren't LHF and require work, but can be done by a relative outsider still.
AlexDaniel :/
babydrop Are we talking about just /doc repo or all of them? 20:19
AlexDaniel you did that to other repos as well? :O
babydrop Of course
AlexDaniel hmm… 20:20
babydrop huggable: hacktoberfest
huggable babydrop, nothing found
babydrop tries to remember GitHub's search stuff to show all of hacktoberfest issues for perl6 org
Ah github.com/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&a...ktoberfest 20:21
samcv does anybody here use Atom? 20:22
babydrop AlexDaniel: well, if the labels are that much of an issue, I'd say removing them is better than changing them to LHF
samcv: yo 20:23
nicq20 samcv: Yerp.
samcv want to get somebody to test my large number of changes to the Atom FE perl 6 syntax highlighter
nice
ok
if you can try out github.com/samcv/language-perl6fe/tree/testing
AlexDaniel babydrop: nah, I guess I'm the only one who is disgusted by this thing, we can leave it
20:23 pecastro left
samcv github.com/MadcapJake/language-perl6fe/pull/42 and github.com/MadcapJake/language-perl6fe/pull/43 list the changes nicq20 babydrop 20:23
babydrop samcv: oh, I'm too stupid to try stuff out. 20:24
samcv but would like people to test them out since MadCapJake is thinking of doing a 1.9 release tonight. so
lol
babydrop All I do is click "update" on perl6fe .
20:24 pecastro joined
samcv babydrop, 20:25
babydrop sup
samcv cd ~/.atom/packages
mv language-perl6fe language-perl6fe-bak
git clone github.com/samcv/language-perl6fe.git
cd language-perl6fe 20:26
git checkout testing
20:26 cognominal left
babydrop ok, what's next? 20:26
samcv i think that should work 20:27
babydrop Right, but what am I testing?
samcv uh any perl 6 syntax highlighting i guess
babydrop Heh, well, ok, the ｢stuff｣ is still not highlighted as a string. 20:28
20:28 cognominal joined
samcv you sure? it's working for me 20:28
you did checkout testing right?
babydrop And neither does using ✎ as a HEREDOC separator
Yeah, I did
samcv hahaha
nicq20 samcv: ditto 20:29
samcv hmm this works for me ｢testing｣ this
can you send me a pic?
AlexDaniel samcv: by the way
samcv: what happens if you write something like this: “hello {say “test”} world” ? 20:30
samcv that works fine AlexDaniel
babydrop samcv: hm... it's also showing me to perl6fe plugins in packages
AlexDaniel samcv: the whole thing is highlighted as a string?
babydrop samcv: i.imgur.com/GQohsnf.png
samcv AlexDaniel, well the stuff in brackets are highlighted as normal code should be 20:31
but the rest is highlighted fine as a string
AlexDaniel hmm
babydrop samcv: oh, ok. I moved the .bak package out of packages/ dir... and now the string gets highlighted
But not the heredoc
samcv yeah the heredoc isn't working right now
babydrop ok :) 20:32
samcv will note that down
should be a way that can be done
[Coke] samcv: I use atom very occasionally.
babydrop samcv: hmm, were you fixing the ‘ quotes too? Fancy pants Unicode single quot4es? 20:33
samcv yes
did you see both tho PR i linked to?
github.com/MadcapJake/language-perl6fe/pull/42 and github.com/MadcapJake/language-perl6fe/pull/43
babydrop samcv: Perl 6 actually accepts them in reverse order too, or just 2 closing/2 opening quotes
samcv both those combined list all the changes
babydrop samcv: so ‘hello {say “test”}world’ gets highlightyed as a string for me, but not ’hello {say “test”}world‘ 20:34
samcv yeah reverse order isn't in yet. but two closing works, and opening/closing works
babydrop m: say ’hello {say “test”}world‘
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«hello {say “test”}world␤»
babydrop Well, I'm glad at least one way works :)
'cause I'm using them in my article and I hope GitHub will update fast enough for me to grab their markup 20:35
samcv heh
but yeah see the list i made there. and then like. try some things
[Coke] is now using that version of samcv's plugin. seems fine?
samcv and maybe try putting things that are variables that SHOULDN't be highlighted in double quoted strings in
"$<variable>" didn't hihlight before, but it may have been too eager 20:36
[Coke] btw: qqx// highlights correctly, but qqx"" doesn't. I realize this is probably very far away from what you're working on.:)
japhb babydrop++ # Taking my CSV sparkline as a starting point and doing exactly what I'd been hoping someone would do. :-)
[Coke] ... or maybe just too much green
samcv if people know things that are variables that can't be used inside double quoted strings. i've tested methods
i will add that to my list [Coke] 20:37
20:37 rindolf left
samcv :) 20:37
babydrop samcv: qw|meow| doesn't work, but qw/meow/ and qw[meow] does 20:38
samcv hmm should be easier to add a bunch of q'something' forms. as long as the opening and closing match
then i can combine them *i think* into one thing
instead of having duplicated rules
babydrop m: say q:w✎meow✎;
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«meow␤»
samcv maybe
babydrop m: say q:w ✎meow✎;
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«meow␤»
babydrop m: q:w᚜meow᚛ 20:39
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Use of a closing delimiter for an opener is reserved␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3q:w7⏏5᚜meow᚛␤»
samcv heh
babydrop m: q:w᚛meow᚜
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of constant string "meow" in sink context (line 1)␤»
babydrop m: say q:w᚛meow᚜ 20:40
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«meow␤»
babydrop samcv: this one isn't fixed for me: github.com/MadcapJake/language-per.../issues/41 20:41
20:41 cognominal left
babydrop In "$<time> $<units>" they're not highlighted... They show up jkust like normal text inside quotes 20:41
20:41 cognominal joined
samcv hm 20:42
20:42 pyrimidine joined
samcv i am seeing that now too 20:42
ahhh
“$<test>” works tho :) ok will fix the normal quotes
babydrop samcv: off the top of my head, I can think of `.categorize-list` that is the same issue as github.com/MadcapJake/language-per.../issues/38 20:43
samcv: oh, and "parse-base"; it's new
Quick, everybody! Let's pile on samcv! 20:44
:)
samcv: well, that's all I got. Thanks for fixing so many issues :)
samcv you're welcome! 20:45
20:45 Madcap^Jake^ joined
pmurias geekosaur: GSoC vs hacktober, GSoC gives out cash rather then t-shirts 20:45
20:46 Madcap^Jake^ is now known as MadcapJake
samcv "$<this>" should work now, pushed that 20:46
will add those methods babydrop
20:47 pyrimidine left
geekosaur I was actually responding to [02 20:14:42] <AlexDaniel> so why do we participate in promoting their company? in turn responding to [02 20:14:15] <AlexDaniel> so why are they doing it? :) [02 20:14:30] <babydrop> AlexDaniel: to promote their company. 20:47
20:47 domidumont left
babydrop disappears until Monday 20:49
Gonna hack on the -Inf and sub signature literals and <...> bugs and write the Advent articles.
\o/ hackety hack weekend weeee
timotimo have a good weekend, babydrop :)
20:53 MadcapJake left
samcv gonna work on getting all possible types of heredocs to work now.. 20:58
if i can decode these regex
timotimo it would be amazing if the heredocs could even figure out if closures and/or variables will be interpolated
samcv because i'm not 100% how the heredocs even work right now in Perl 6 FE 20:59
timotimo m: say Q/what { say "yo" } $interpolation $none.of().this()/
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«what { say "yo" } $interpolation $none.of().this()␤»
20:59 seatek joined, TEttinger joined 21:00 rurban left
samcv thing i'm gonna break out and use a regex tool type site so I can figure out what's going on here :P would also be nice if atom had better documentation for this too 21:01
well they have 0
timotimo the syntax highlighters for atom are just "stolen" from something else ... textmate perhaps? i don't remember 21:02
samcv yeah textmate
textmate manual has like
manual.macromates.com/en/language_grammars
timotimo so hopefully there's good documentation for that?
samcv it's not that good
timotimo lol, 5 screenpages full
that's sad 21:03
samcv yeah :(
seriously
i mean it explains some things okay. but others it doesn't like too much 21:04
21:04 cdg joined
samcv it could be worse i guess? 21:04
timotimo always can, yeah
hahainternet m: Array.new(:shape(2;2)); 21:11
camelia ( no output )
hahainternet m: say Array.new(:shape(2;2));
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«[[(Any) (Any)] [(Any) (Any)]]␤»
hahainternet oh weird, why's that different on mine
yoleaux AlexDaniel: harass mst
hahainternet ah because i was errantly assigning it to an array i think 21:12
AlexDaniel mst: hey! How are you doing?
mst: I don't want to sound annoying, but was there any progress regarding the “new ticket” button?
samcv wth, maybe it's a problem with Atom ? or its engine? 21:17
it's not working with fancy unicode heredocs, even when i match .+ for th edelimiter instead of \w+ 21:18
:(((
21:22 acrussell left 21:25 skids left 21:26 cognominal left
dalek c: a601491 | coke++ | / (2 files):
Add note about why "Perl 6"

closes #294		 21:28
[Coke] TimToady: Please free free to editorialize on that one
^^
21:29 cognominal joined 21:37 Guest42590 joined 21:38 edghto left, nicq20 left
[Coke] AlexDaniel: your all white github icon is... frustrating. 21:39
21:40 FROGGS left, Tonik left
dalek c: 5eae2aa | coke++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6:
add missing trailing quote
 21:40
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/language/glossary
21:41 cognominal left 21:45 Madcap^Jake^ joined 21:46 Madcap^Jake^ is now known as MadcapJake 21:50 itaipu left 21:54 MadcapJake left, firstdayonthejob joined 22:01 bstamour` left, cognominal joined 22:03 wamba joined
AlexDaniel [Coke]: it's not completely white! 22:08
samcv oh actually was the problem with atom using a different directory. well! fancy heredocs are fixed now. 22:09
22:11 cognominal left 22:18 cognominal joined 22:23 sufrostico joined 22:30 alimon1 left
hahainternet what's the [] syntax called when used for example, like Array[Int].new ? 22:32
wandered through the docs and didn't find much
AlexDaniel hahainternet: docs.perl6.org/routine/[%20]#(Oper...cumfix_[_] 22:38
ahhh 22:39
no
hahainternet i think it's a parameterised role, but i can't see where that applies in Array.pm for example 22:40
geekosaur parameterized roles/classes?
AlexDaniel hahainternet: it is not there, at least not searchable. Please file a doc issue
hahainternet ah because it's in TypedArray.pm
and i may, i barely have time for this atm
thanks for the attempt though AlexDaniel 22:41
AlexDaniel hahainternet: maybe this? docs.perl6.org/language/list#Typing
hahainternet yeah i found that but it didn't really explain what was going on
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...rray.pm#L3 seems to though 22:42
AlexDaniel it should be searchable though
22:43 pyrimidine joined
AlexDaniel huggable: rakudobug 22:45
huggable AlexDaniel, [email@hidden.address] or use perl6 query on rt.perl.org ; see github.com/rakudo/rakudo/#reporting-bugs
22:46 Madcap^Jake^ joined, Madcap^Jake^ is now known as MadcapJake
hahainternet AlexDaniel: first docs bug, that github link links to another link, which says nothing about docs bugs :) 22:48
22:48 pyrimidine left
AlexDaniel huggable: docs 22:48
huggable AlexDaniel, nothing found
AlexDaniel huggable: doc bug
huggable AlexDaniel, nothing found
AlexDaniel hahainternet: well, that's why it is a “rakudobug” :)
gfldex AlexDaniel: TypedArray is a private role of Array 22:50
22:51 MadcapJake left
AlexDaniel ? 22:51
dalek c: c0b12ff | gfldex++ | doc/Language/list.pod6:
index ‚typed array‘
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/language/list
gfldex sorry that was for hahainternet
so TypedArray.pm isn 22:52
so TypedArray.pm isn't really there
why did they put those keys so close together?
AlexDaniel gfldex: perhaps [ ] should also point there
dalek c: 7e80010 | gfldex++ | doc/Language/list.pod6:
index [ ] for typed arrrays
 22:53
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/language/list
AlexDaniel gfldex++ 22:55
22:56 cognominal left 22:57 pyrimidine joined 22:59 pyrimidine left, pyrimidine joined 23:03 sufrostico left 23:04 pyrimidine left
moritz back home 23:05
any news about bdfoy's advent post? 23:06
it sits as a draft in wordpress, is it publishable?
gfldex you can move mine to today if you like 23:07
well, to today in 1h 23:08
23:10 clasclin joined
moritz is closer to just publishing it 23:12
hahainternet AlexDaniel: the reason i was asking btw, is that i noticed i could do 'class Whatever is Array', but not 'is Array[Int]', but doesn't seem like making a TypedArray is a 'real' thing, i'd probably have to call the metamodel sub myself i assume 23:14
still, learning is good :D 23:15
gfldex there is also ‚of‘
hahainternet does that actually work? it didn't seem to but that was about 45 mins ago and i can't remember precisely what i was doing
gfldex m: class C is Array of Int {} 23:16
camelia rakudo-moar abc643: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤No such method 'set_of' for invocant of type 'Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW'␤at <tmp>:1␤»
gfldex there may be an RT for that
if not there should
hahainternet tbqh i'm more interested to learn how 'of' works, i noticed that 'shape' is just a constructor parameter
so i assume it works out to be equiv to :of(Int) 23:17
23:17 lukaramu left
gfldex how of works is an implementation detail 23:17
clasclin Hi everyone, I think I have some configuration problem on windows machine launching external programs with run, it just gives an exitcode -16 no matter what program try to run
I have no idea what that means or how to debug it 23:18
gfldex docs.perl6.org/type/Variable#trait_of
hahainternet gfldex: perhaps not the 'how', but the 'slot' it occupies in the language, if that makes sense
yeah exactly that link :)
23:18 cognominal joined
gfldex there is a bug in htmlify.p6 that prevents traits from ending in the index 23:19
AlexDaniel clasclin: hello. Do you have some example so that we can try to reproduce it? 23:20
gfldex clasclin: please file a bug report (IIRC run ends up as a problem of the vm)
Rakudo is not well tested in windows 23:21
clasclin I tried with a few commands like run 'dir' or run 'ls' or run 'myscript.pl6' on windows 10 x64, the perl -v is 2016.11 built on moar 23:25
also try with older versions and same exitcode -16 23:26
23:27 cognominal left
timotimo huh, wtf? 23:27
i haven't heard of this one before
can you try run with a full path? like C:\\Windows\\calc.exe or whatever the path is? 23:28
23:29 cdg left 23:31 cognominal joined 23:33 Tonik joined
clasclin hmm the exitcode is 0 for > run 'C:\\Windows\write.exe' but program didn't open 23:33
timotimo what is write.exe? 23:34
is it actually a gui program that'll pop open a window?
clasclin it's a gui program
it's wordpad
timotimo oh! 23:37
hum :\
clasclin the shell command works fine if I type > shell 'C:\\Windows\write.exe'
but the shell does not accept any arguments
timotimo well, it's supposed to do command line splitting on whitespace
just like when you enter stuff into the shell 23:38
23:38 girafe left
clasclin I see... 23:45
hahainternet gfldex: can't find an RT for that set_of one 23:46
clasclin > run 'wget.exe', '--help' works fine and shows the help
so I think I just a problem with the scripts I've created 23:47
23:48 firstdayonthejob left
hahainternet hmm and this is the only instance i can find for partially dimensioned views: rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=128904 but i guess an array of arrays sorts that anyway 23:48
23:54 pmurias left

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!