»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
00:04 cale2 left
Geth oc: 4a8f8f5af5 | (Samantha McVey)++ | 2 files
Fix --no-proc-async and allow sassc as one of our sass compilers
 00:05
samcv [Coke], --no-proc-async should be fixed now
oh nice, and highlighting on the site is back up \o/ 00:06
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mr_ron .tell lizmat for the p6weekly the ecosystem addition is US-ASCII not US::ASCII - thanks 00:18
yoleaux mr_ron: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
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[Coke] samcv: testing now 00:33
raschipi .tell lizmat The weekly has a link to "reddit comments" that doesn't point to reddit. 00:41
yoleaux raschipi: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
Geth oc: cfcfe5dce4 | raiph++ | doc/Programs/00-running.pod6
Link to page w/ examples + Windows quoting rules

  cale2++ for reporting problem and mentioning linked doc
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sammers hi #perl6 00:58
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[Coke] Ho. 01:05
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Geth oc: antquinonez++ created pull request #1161:
Style updates to faq and about pod.		 01:46
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travis-ci Doc build passed. Samantha McVey 'Fix --no-proc-async and allow sassc as one of our sass compilers' 01:52
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/194661035 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/e3ca9...8f8f5af5f2
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AlexDaniel oh wow, these doc pull requests :o 01:55
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samcv so it looks like the changes to highlights were pretty small github.com/atom/highlights/commit/...0ddfd4R302 02:11
like a few lines
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[Coke] tries to figure out why we're getting html/.html files, and man is this a twisty maze. :( 03:05
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b7j0c howdy! is there a way to have one logical package span many files? 03:06
b2gills m: gist.github.com/b2gills/b877658f38...dc0990f581 03:08
camelia rakudo-moar 700a07: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤ok 2 - ␤ok 3 - ␤ok 4 - ␤ok 5 - ␤ok 6 - ␤ok 7 - ␤ok 8 - ␤ok 9 - ␤ok 10 - ␤»
b2gills b7j0c: The best way would be to have a role per file and compose them into the resulting class 03:09
b7j0c thanks b2gills, I'll look into that
yeah a quick glance at an old Advent post on Roles seems to indicate that is what I need 03:11
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BenGoldberg .u ᛊᚾᛁᚲᛖᚱᛊᚾᛇᚲ 03:49
yoleaux U+16B1 RUNIC LETTER RAIDO RAD REID R [Lo] (ᚱ)
U+16B2 RUNIC LETTER KAUNA [Lo] (ᚲ)
U+16BE RUNIC LETTER NAUDIZ NYD NAUD N [Lo] (ᚾ)
BenGoldberg u: ᛊᚾᛁᚲᛖᚱᛊᚾᛇᚲ 03:50
unicodable6 BenGoldberg, U+16CA RUNIC LETTER SOWILO S [Lo] (ᛊ)
BenGoldberg, U+16BE RUNIC LETTER NAUDIZ NYD NAUD N [Lo] (ᚾ)
BenGoldberg, gist.github.com/4117b1032a9a03f066...cad252256c
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lizmat . 08:35
yoleaux 00:18Z <mr_ron> lizmat: for the p6weekly the ecosystem addition is US-ASCII not US::ASCII - thanks
00:41Z <raschipi> lizmat: The weekly has a link to "reddit comments" that doesn't point to reddit.
lizmat fixed!
lizmat clickbaits p6weekly.wordpress.com/2017/01/23/...4-welcome/
moritz lizmat++
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CIAvash lizmat++ 08:41
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Geth cosystem: bd2c869a8a | (Ahmad M. Zawawi)++ | META.list
Remove totem ( Fun search bar written in Perl 6 )

The project is 2-years old and I am focusing my efforts where it matters.		 10:13
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brokenchicken We changed the .O stuff semi-recently right? This is no longer the valid way to set up precedence: Eji::Grammar.O(':prec<u=>, :assoc<left>', '%multiplicative'); ? 14:25
What's the new way?
Right now that dies with 'Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 3'
brokenchicken activates the arnsholt -signal 14:26
timotimo did we actually get that merged? 14:28
brokenchicken yeah 14:29
arnsholt Starting to be a while now, I think
brokenchicken Looks like this is the new way to do it: github.com/edumentab/rakudo-and-nq...qp#L71-L80
arnsholt Yup 14:30
brokenchicken cool
brokenchicken is writing an emoji-based language :) 14:31
💬 'Hello, World!'
arnsholt Was merged in early September last year, FWIW =)
brokenchicken That prints hello world.
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brokenchicken $ cat test.eji 14:53
💬 2.4 ✖ 2.5
$ ./eji test.eji
6
:)
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brokenchicken m: "🆒".uninames.say 14:57
camelia rakudo-moar e99510: OUTPUT«(SQUARED COOL)␤»
brokenchicken That's pretty... cool
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brokenchicken Gawd dammit! Someone stole my idea: www.emojicode.org/ 15:00
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brokenchicken Hm, looks a lot less cool actually. 15:03
perigrin you just don't understand it ... nobody understands it ... it'll just be in it's room GAH!
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perigrin has a teenager who puts the emo into emoji 15:04
brokenchicken is lucky to still be offspring-free
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brokenchicken Well... lacking any original ideas, I'm gonna write Perl 7 :) 15:12
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b2gills brokenchicken: Just pick a random word from the dictionary and try to implement that as a language 15:17
mst just make the random number generator run again if it picks 'felch' 15:18
huf yeah, dont call it that 15:19
however, moist would be a great name
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brokenchicken ... moist? 15:20
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huf yeah, lots of people seem to hate the word 15:21
for no real reason
well, i believe their main reason is "just listen to it: moist *ewwwww*"
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mr_ron m: gist.github.com/ronaldxs/901b9b802...02c36bb5ac 15:24
camelia rakudo-moar e99510: OUTPUT«True␤True␤err: No such method 'g::t' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤err: No such method 'g::t' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤»
mr_ron anyone know how to do such indirect grammar reference? 15:25
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b2gills just imagine all of the keywords in a language called moist 15:26
mr_ron m: grammar g { token t { <[2]> } }; $rname = "g::t"; say so "2" ~~ /<::($rname)>/ # simplified version of question 15:27
camelia rakudo-moar e99510: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$rname' is not declared. Did you mean '&rename'?␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3grammar g { token t { <[2]> } }; 7⏏5$rname = "g::t"; say so "2" ~~ /<::($rna␤»
mr_ron m: grammar g { token t { <[2]> } }; my $rname = "g::t"; say so "2" ~~ /<::($rname)>/ # simplified version of question
camelia rakudo-moar e99510: OUTPUT«No such method 'g::t' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
mr_ron Is that example supposed to work? 15:28
[Coke] if it's not tested in roast, no guarantees? I see you quoted the syn in the gist. 15:29
code from there is often just speculative.
mr_ron m: my $rname = "digit"; say so "2" ~~ /<::($rname)>/; # that works 15:31
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«True␤»
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mr_ron github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master...ets.t#L171 15:34
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brokenchicken That works because digit is a method on Cursor, while "g::t" ain't 15:37
m: grammar g { token t { <[2]> } }; dd ::("g::t") 15:38
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«Failure.new(exception => X::NoSuchSymbol.new(symbol => "g::t"), backtrace => Backtrace.new)␤»
brokenchicken m: grammar g { our token t { <[2]> } }; dd ::("g::t")
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«Failure.new(exception => X::NoSuchSymbol.new(symbol => "g::t"), backtrace => Backtrace.new)␤»
brokenchicken doesn't seem to be even visible outside of it
AlexDaniel .tell dalek Please switch this bot to Geth
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to dalek.
brokenchicken m: grammar g { our sub t { } }; dd ::("g::t")
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«Failure.new(exception => X::NoSuchSymbol.new(symbol => "g::t"), backtrace => Backtrace.new)␤»
brokenchicken m: grammar g { our sub t { } }; dd ::("&g::t")
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«Sub t = sub t () { #`(Sub|54816568) ... }␤»
brokenchicken m: grammar g { our token t { ^} }; dd ::("&g::t") 15:39
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«Regex t = token t { ^}␤»
mr_ron m: grammar g { token t { <[2]> } }; say so "2" ~~ /<g::t>/ # simplified version of question
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«True␤»
brokenchicken m: grammar g { our token t { <[2]> } }; my $rname = "g::t"; say so "2" ~~ /<::("&$rname")>/
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«No such method '&g::t' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
b2gills m: grammar g { our token t { <[2]> } }; my $rname = "&g::t"; say so "2" ~~ /<{::($rname)}>/ 15:40
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«True␤»
mr_ron noticed people found time for Perl 7 ...
b2gills: thanks much 15:41
[Coke] doesn't think that's really a thing.
brokenchicken It is! I'm working on it.
mr_ron I think the technique is useful. If no objection will look to document and add test(s?). 15:43
brokenchicken I'm surprised that stuff even works 15:44
m: grammar g { token t { <[2]> } }; dd g::t
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&t'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
brokenchicken ... yet you can access it from inside a grammar
mr_ron m: grammar g { token t { <[2]> } }; say so "2" ~~ /<g::t>/
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«True␤»
moritz tokens are has-scoped
brokenchicken moritz: what does that mean?
moritz so <a::b> inside a regex is special[tm]
brokenchicken: it means they have the same lookup semantics as methods 15:45
they live in the method table, not the namespace
brokenchicken moritz: OK, but why can some random regex look up a symbol in some other random grammar?
moritz brokenchicken: because it's public 15:46
brokenchicken OK
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mr_ron m:grammar g { our token t { <[2]> } }; say so "2" ~~/<&g::t>/; say so "2" ~~ /<g::t>/ #second one not work - problem 15:56
m: grammar g { our token t { <[2]> } }; say so "2" ~~/<&g::t>/; say so "2" ~~ /<g::t>/ #second one not work - problem
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«True␤No such method 't' for invocant of type 'g'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
brokenchicken github.com/perl7/perl7 :) 15:57
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brokenchicken With the naming problem finally solved, all I need is a kickass logo, and I'm done! 15:58
b2gills m: grammar g { token t { <[2]> } }; my $r-name = 'g::t'; my ($r-class,$r-method) = ($r-name ~~ /(.*)'::'(.*)/)[]».Str; say grammar :: is ::($r-class) {token TOP {<::($r-name)>}}.parse('2') # this >< close 16:01
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤This type cannot unbox to a native string: P6opaque, QAST::Var␤»
b2gills brokenchicken: seems a bit ... anemic 16:02
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jast minimalism! 16:02
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brokenchicken b2gills: Perl 6 is too damn complex. So the obvious solution for Perl 7 is to make it as simple as possible. 16:04
it can add, subtract, multiple, divide, and print strings. What else could you possibly want?
perigrin brokenchicken: t06.deviantart.net/dwjaHECiFqRTw0e3...5bur4p.jpg 16:05
logo for you.
brokenchicken eeewwww... TIP: do not leave your sandwiches over the weekend in company's fridge... There's a chance they'll smell like strawberries when you come back for them :(
jeek but I like strawberries 16:06
perigrin you know subtraction is just addition with negative numbers, and division is just multiplication with fractions ... so you could simplify the language by 40% there.
brokenchicken perigrin: pffft.. That picture fails to learn from the suckage of Perl 6's logo. The most awesomest logo is "P7" in a bold solid font, inside a rectangle. That's the type of logos that managers like and clearly the language will be in top 5 langs of 2017 based on just logo alone. 16:08
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brokenchicken Hm. Or maybe it's not strawberries and my sandwich just got bad? 16:08
Is 4 days too long a time to leave a sandwich in the fridge for :/ 16:09
ugexe throw some new bread on it
brokenchicken Aint got any
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mr_ron m: grammar g { token t { <[2]> } }; my $r-name = "t"; grammar g2 is g { token TOP { <t> } }; say g2.parse("2") 16:13
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«｢2｣␤ t => ｢2｣␤»
mr_ron m: grammar g { our token t { <[2]> } }; my $r-name = "t"; grammar g2 is g { token TOP { <t> } }; say g2.parse("2") # add our
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«No such method 't' for invocant of type 'g2'␤ in regex TOP at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
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brokenchicken mr_ron: what does `our` do for methods/tokens? 16:17
m: class Foo { our method bar { say "hi" } }; class Bar is Foo { method stuff { self.bar } }.stuff
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«No such method 'bar' for invocant of type 'Bar'␤ in method stuff at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
brokenchicken Doesn't work with normal methods either 16:18
mr_ron I was looking at the suggestions from b2gills ...
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mr_ron m: grammar g { token t { <[2]> } }; $rname = "g::t"; say so "2" ~~ /<::($rname)>/ # our scoping not answer, other ideas? rfc? rt? 16:31
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$rname' is not declared. Did you mean '&rename'?␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3grammar g { token t { <[2]> } }; 7⏏5$rname = "g::t"; say so "2" ~~ /<::($rna␤»
mr_ron m: grammar g { token t { <[2]> } }; my $rname = "g::t"; say so "2" ~~ /<::($rname)>/ # our scoping not answer, other ideas? rfc? rt?
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«No such method 'g::t' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
moritz it doesn't like fully-qualified names with the <::()> syntax 16:32
mr_ron I guess that's a "no". As a last mention the use case I had was here: github.com/ronaldxs/Perl6-US-ASCII...01-basic.t 16:35
moritz m: grammar g { token t { <[2]> } }; my $rx = g.^find_method('t'); say so "2" ~~ /$rx/ 16:36
mr_ron It would be nice to repeat for each rule - is $latin-chars.comb(/<US-ASCII::alpha>/).join, %charset-str< alpha > # again for upper, lower, ...
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding to <anon>; expected g but got Cursor (Cursor.new)␤ in regex t at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
mr_ron s/to repeat/not to repeat/ 16:37
moritz m: grammar g { token t { <[2]> } }; my $rx = g.^find_method('t'); say so "2" ~~ /<$rx>/
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding to <anon>; expected g but got Cursor (Cursor.new)␤ in regex t at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
brokenchicken m: grammar g { token t(Any:) { <[2]> } }; my $rx = g.^find_method('t'); say so "2" ~~ /<$rx>/ 16:44
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«True␤»
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mr_ron m: grammar g { token t(Any:) { <[2]> } }; my $rx = g.^find_method("t"); say so "2" ~~ /<g::t>/ # looks better 16:47
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«True␤»
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mr_ron m: grammar g { token t(Cursor:) { <[2]> } }; my $rx = g.^find_method("t"); say so "2" ~~ /<g::t>/; say so "2" ~~ /<$rx>/ 16:54
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«True␤True␤»
mr_ron So at this point it comes down to which is uglier ... adding (Cursor:) signatures to all the US-ASCII rules or leaving in the repetition for tests. 17:02
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moritz or using EVAL in the tests 17:08
m: grammar g { token t(Any:) { <[2]> } }; my $rx = g.^find_method("t"); say so "2" ~~ $rx
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«True␤»
moritz ... or using that :-)
mr_ron: ^^
brokenchicken And now I have a kickass Perl 7 logo: github.com/perl7 17:13
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brokenchicken I guess I better write a book too. I heard that was a requirement for success. 17:14
moritz it just doesn't pay well 17:15
instead you should publish courses on Pluralsight or whatever it's called
timotimo i just set up syncthings to synchronize my ecosystem (i.e. checkouts of a bunch of modules), moarvm, nqp, and rakudo folders across my laptop and desktop 17:16
brokenchicken moritz: so what was with people ++ you the other day with comment "book"? You finished your book? 17:19
timotimo not finished 17:20
moritz brokenchicken: I wish :-)
brokenchicken So what were ++ about?
moritz brokenchicken: propbably just because of an update, or general appreciation of the effort
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brokenchicken Ah 17:20
Well, when you're done, you can write one for Perl 7 :) 17:21
It's the language of the Future!
moritz speaking of which, selling copies before the book is finished is really motivating
28 copies sold so far 17:22
brokenchicken :o
moritz and now a publisher has asked whether I'm interested in them adopting the book 17:23
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brokenchicken doesn't see a pre-order link on perl6book.com/ 17:23
moritz I guess I should update the website, eh? :-)
brokenchicken :)
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moritz leanpub.com/perl6 17:24
m: grammar g { token t { <[2]> } }; my $rx = g.^find_method("t"); say so "2" ~~ $rx 17:25
camelia rakudo-moar 4ef37c: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding to <anon>; expected g but got Cursor (Cursor.new)␤ in regex t at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
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brokenchicken buys 1 copy of moritz's motivation 17:28
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moritz brokenchicken++ thanks! 17:33
timotimo cool 17:34
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moritz perl6book.com/ updated 17:54
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mspo can you add left: 0 to the content-wrapper if you're going to use it in splash-container? 18:07
FF has horiz scroll
brokenchicken heh 18:10
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mspo this is actually a common problem on firefox 18:20
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brokenchicken That's just margins on body. Any self-respecting web dev sets those to zero :) 18:22
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brokenchicken TIL perl6 takes `--profile-compile` option :o 18:30
timotimo yup 18:31
that's a thing we've been hoping to be able to use with the core setting
but it consistently generates profiles that are out of reach for the html profiler 18:32
we can use the sql target, though
brokenchicken neat
timotimo i haven't played around with the sql target enough 18:33
but it's a great addition to the whole thing
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brokenchicken How come my `method sign` actions don't get triggered? Here are the tokens: github.com/perl7/perl7/blob/master...qp#L17-L23 and here are the actions: github.com/perl7/perl7/blob/master...qp#L57-L67 18:44
And here's the output when compiling 💬 2.4 × −2.5 gist.github.com/zoffixznet/9af07d0...254d2034d9
The sign matches, but its actions don't get executed? dafuq?
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jnthn brokenchicken: 'cus you forgot the :sym in your grammaar 18:47
timotimo might only be calling the proto tokens action method 18:48
jnthn *grammar
.oO( grammARGH! )
brokenchicken oh damn :) I knew it had to be something dumb :)
El_Che perl7? oh oh
brokenchicken jnthn++
timotimo ah, nideed
brokenchicken El_Che: yup. I solved all the version and logo debates with a swift stroke of brilliance! :) 18:50
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mr_ron How do I run a single roast test file with Rakudo perl6. I know there is fudging involved. Using a rakudo repo and make m-sometests is a hacky way. Anything better? 18:53
El_Che brokenchicken: you must have been the 1st that thought of that :)
brokenchicken mr_ron: well, the fudger lives in rakudo's repo 18:54
mr_ron: I don't see what's hacky about it. Check out the roast to t/spec and you're good to roll
mr_ron: make t/spec/some-test-file or t/fudgeandrun t/spec/some-test-file
t/fudgeandrun /some/arbitrary/dir might work too 18:55
t/fudgeandrun /some/arbitrary/dir/test-file.t might work too
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mr_ron It seems odd to me that running roast tests depends on rakudo. There is a $*VM variable and it seems hacky that you can't actually run any tests without the cooperation of the implimentation. 18:58
brokenchicken You can. 18:59
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brokenchicken The fudges just apply to rakudo. And just rakudo has a list of spectest files it runs. 18:59
Not sure what $*VM's got to do with anything. 19:00
You can run the tests using implementation XYZ to your hearts content, without needing an ounce of rakudo. 19:01
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brokenchicken And there's even a fudger in roast repo 19:01
hah.. and a SUPER fudger too :) 19:02
mr_ron working on answering you - 2 minutes please - yes saw fudge program in roast repo
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brokenchicken and t/fudgeandrun is a tiny wrapper for roast's fudger. See what it calls and you don't need rakudo repo 19:07
but 99.9999999999999% of time roast's tests are run for purposes of verifying rakudo they're run from a checkout in t/spec/ of rakludo's repo :) 19:08
2 minutes passed. You lied
TimToady he didn't say he'd answer after 2 minutes
mr_ron sorry - still working
brokenchicken Oh, right. Fair enough. 19:09
What happens after 2 minutes then?
TimToady everything, now
modulo simultanaeity considerations under relativity
but, basically, everything in your downstream lightcone 19:11
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moritz \o/ relativity 19:19
mr_ron I was trying to run ./fudge and then "prove -eperl6" on the .rakudo and that still doesn't seem to work. But fudge and perl6 on the .rakudo file seems to work. Maybe need more familiarity with testing. 19:21
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brokenchicken
.oO( what .rakudo file? )
 19:25
It's usually .rakudo.moar or .rakudo.jvm 19:26
mr_ron: and what does doesn't work mean?
b2gills whelp 103 days of uptime seems like enough, restarting to let updates finish. be back in a few 19:28
brokenchicken If you're asking for help, saying doesn't work is like coming to the doctor and saying feel ill. 19:30
mr_ron example S05-metasyntax/angle-brackets.t
./fudge rakudo S05-metasyntax/angle-brackets.t; prove -e perl6 S05-metasyntax/angle-brackets.rakudo
[Coke] we used to run roast on niecza and pugs and rakudo.parrot and rakudo.moar and rakudo.jvm, so it does work across the board; each of those happened to follow the "checkout roast into t/spec to run it" model, but no reason why you couldn't have a pre-installed compiler you were testing against. 19:31
in rakudo, you can "make t/spec/sec/file.t", also, or "prove -v -e t/fudgeandrun t/spec/sec/file.t" or "prove -v -e t/fudgeandrun sec/file.t" 19:32
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[Coke] no reason why t/fudgeandrun couldn't be moved into roast and generalized. 19:32
[Coke] hopes that the perl7 repo doesn't causes any negative publicity. :) 19:33
mr_ron brokenchicken is mostly right - it runs more often than I thought for rakudo. Not so many files break on rakudo. I may have just happened to hit them.
brokenchicken [Coke]: all publicity is good publicity ;) 19:34
[Coke] not every file in roast works on rakudo. that's what t/spectest.data is for
brokenchicken: in that case, best wishes to you. :) 19:35
brokenchicken mr_ron: huh. Weird. Seems ./fudge is adding exit(1) at the end :S 19:36
Which of course makes harness think there've been failures
brokenchicken looks closer at code 19:37
[Coke] brokenchicken: you can change the -exit code with fudge.
--keep-exit-code
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brokenchicken aha 19:38
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brokenchicken mr_ron: so it's ./fudge --keep-exit-code rakudo S05-metasyntax/angle-brackets.t && prove6 -eperl6 S05-metasyntax/angle-brackets.rakudo 19:39
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brokenchicken err s/prove6/prove/ 19:42
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brokenchicken
.oO( Who's Avi Ranawat? )
 19:45
[Coke] brokenchicken: t/fudgeandrun makes that simpler. 19:46
brokenchicken is being paranoid again, I guess.
[Coke]: yeah, but mr_ron didn't want to have Rakudo repo checked out, from what I understood
[Coke] note that there's no guarantee that the file you get is a .rakudo - no fudges == .t 19:47
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[Coke] (right, maybe it makes sense to put this helper (which someone probably stole from pugs) into roast. 19:47
mr_ron I cloned roast and started adding some test files. I was trying to figure out how to run the new tests. I saw the fudge program in the roast readme.
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toolforger Heh. I had the exactly same problem this morning 19:48
I have roast, I have moarvm, nqp, and rakudo installen - but how am I supposed to run the tests?
I feel so dumb...
brokenchicken Well, I someone wanted to make contributing.perl6.org 19:50
Or Contribute.Perl6.Org
github.com/perl6/contribute/blob/m.../DESIGN.md
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brokenchicken But I kinda lost steam on that one with the "when in doubt; merge it" comment 19:53
irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6-dev/2016-...i_13725404 19:54
'cause I strongly disagree with that and I don't want to open flodgates of crappy PRs that get merged just because they're there :/
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mr_ron Coke: fudgeandrun depends on the rakudo directory structure but with just a few changes it works for roast. Ok to make roast issue and try to add changed fudgeandrun? 19:59
brokenchicken would rather not touch what ain't broken. 20:00
This is build stuff that's prolly used downstream.
moritz brokenchicken: I see no evidence for that in perl6-all-modules 20:02
moritz@hack:~/p6/perl6-all-modules$ git grep fudgeandrun|wc -l 20:03
0
[Coke] "when in doubt merge it" is the wrong approach in most of our repos, yes.
mr_ron: that seems reasonable to me,
brokenchicken moritz: that's just modules. I mean people who distribute rakudo. Including our own stuff: Rakudo Star and NeuralAnomaly release bot. 20:04
I mean that if we're *moving* fudgeandrun to roast repo
moritz brokenchicken: doesn't seem to be used in star either
toolforger brokenchicken, did you read the follow-up messages? seems like the "when in doubt, merge it" philosophy isn't a thing 20:05
mr_ron thanks ...
brokenchicken toolforger: I don't see that.
toolforger well, the idea gets some flak, then the discussion moves on 20:06
most responses are sarcasm and/or irony I think
brokenchicken I see two people joking around about the idea then *me* saying it's a bad idea and the discussion moves on.
And the discussion started when a broken PR got merged.
toolforger erm... which of the participants was you? 20:07
brokenchicken And it happened more than once that a rakudo/perl6 repo had comments on it, proposing improvements, but it silently got merged by another contributor.
by silently I mean ignoring or missing those comments. 20:08
toolforger somehow Perl6 isn't utterly broken though
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toolforger not that I'm particularly fond of such a philosophy myself, but then that's just me 20:09
brokenchicken Utterly broken isn't the outcome of trigger-happy merging. Warts and bugs and half-assed solutions are. 20:10
toolforger Until somebody comes along and fixes that. Linux works that way, too, and it's not really worse than most other OSes when it comes to having half-assed solutions. I guess it's a way to speed up development, in the knowledge that if it's really bad than that will scratch somebody's itch and eventually get solved. 20:12
Of course, over time, such an approach can kill a code base
OTOH both Linux and Perl6 are famous for scrapping entire codebases, but salvaging the experience gained and building somthing better on top of that experience 20:13
brokenchicken ouch
[Coke] toolforger: ... we may have done that historically, it's not something we're planning on repeating. :)
toolforger you *never* plan on scrapping a codebase :-) 20:14
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jayk are there any perl coders 4 hire? 20:15
moritz jayk: my experience in Germany shows that there are good ones for hire, but not cheap 20:16
jeek jayk: Try jobs.perl.org
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jayk i have a small problem probably take 15 minutes 20:16
brokenchicken toolforger: I'm not convinced at all by "speed up development" argument in this case. You get first half-assed solution faster, but you lose all the saved time on debugging and rewriting good solution. It took me over an hour to debug this hack before I realized it lets execute arbitrary code within pod and works only half the time for the purpose it was meant to do: 20:17
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...#L131-L145
toolforger: and on top of that lost debugging time, the feature is back on the drawing board, where we try to remember if it ever meant to let run arbitrary code in the first place: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id...et-history
And once that design debate is over, the feature will have to be reimplemented. 20:18
toolforger Sure.
toolforger has reimplemented more things in his life than he cares to remember
brokenchicken toolforger: and since it half-works now, there's no motivation to actually fix it. And so, the half-assed wart lives on :)
toolforger also remembers a lot of cases where he couldn't have done the good design before trying the straighforward (but bad one) first
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toolforger "Experience is the sum of mistakes made." Not entirely true, but more true than many people would like. 20:19
brokenchicken jayk: so why not learn to do it yourself?
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jayk i've tried for a month 20:20
i give up
brokenchicken hah
jayk the modules im using are broken
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brokenchicken jayk: so how do you know it'd take 15 minutes? :) 20:20
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jayk or they don't work right 20:20
brokenchicken jayk: what is it anyway?
jayk async web/proxy checker 20:21
with mojo it is too slow
brokenchicken jayk: which mojo? mojolicious.org?
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jayk anyevent::http or net::async::http might work, but im having issues 20:21
yes mojolicous
brokenchicken jayk: ah, you're in the wrong channel :) You want #perl This is a related but different language Perl 6. 20:22
moritz IME, nothing with async in p5 ever takes only 15 minutes to develop :-)
brokenchicken jayk: and I highly doubt we have any easy solutions that would be faster than mojo
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jayk mojo didnt work well with async requests 20:22
brokenchicken weird, I had the impression it rocked with them 20:23
jayk i want to process 500 URLs asyncronously, wait 3 seconds, and process another 500
it doesn work well with the URLs are broken or don't exist
brokenchicken What you need this stuff for anyway?
jayk its a proxy checker 20:24
for a lot of hings
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brokenchicken Well, all good, but as I've said, Perl 6 is a different language. 20:24
Did you want to install it or.. ?
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jayk its written to use a module and it'll work if its not done asyncronously 20:25
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jayk the biggest problem im running into now its a broken module 20:25
the module itself needs to be fixed
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jayk it'll run through just fine until it hits a bad URL, and the whole program quits 20:26
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brokenchicken heh 20:26
How much you're paying anyway? 20:27
mspo jayk: ask in #mojo
or #perl
jayk id pay up to $100 to fix it
brokenchicken cool 20:28
jayk #perl sent me to jobs.perl..org
brokenchicken haha
jayk i think those guys are looking for bigger programs
mspo can you ask a direct question instead?
brokenchicken Wasn't there some freelance site just for this sort of stuff? 20:29
jayk my question was to just find someone to fix my stupid proxy checker, or rewrite it to use a module that works
yeah freelancer
brokenchicken Amazon Turks or something or other
jayk i can do that it just seemed like id be easier to bitcoin someone $100 bucks
brokenchicken Which module is broken?
jayk net::async::http
i already submitted a bug request 20:30
there are several problems with that module
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jayk i had to use 2 patches to get as far as i did, and then ran into a 3rd problem that doesn't have a fix 20:30
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toolforger monster.com used to be a freelancing portal 20:32
I think there are others nowadays
brokenchicken
.oO( for @urls.rotor(500) { await .map: {say HTTP::UserAgent.new.get($_).status-line}; sleep 3 } ...)
jayk is that perl6?
brokenchicken jayk: well, as I've mentioned. Perl 6 is a different language. We don't fix Perl 5 modules. The majority here probably doesn't even know Perl 5, so... you may be more productive looking at other places. 20:33
jayk how long has perl6 been in development?
brokenchicken jayk: yeah, that's Perl 6 version of doing 500 urls each time, waiting for them to finish and sleeping 3 seconds.
mspo jayk: 10 years? 20:34
brokenchicken jayk: the first production release was December 2015. That was preceeded by 15 years of designs and redesigns
jayk wow
mspo 15 years
brokenchicken Yeah. If it's worth doing, better do it right ;)
jayk its a lot like ipv6 then, solving a need that needs to happen but difficult to fully implement? 20:35
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brokenchicken No idea. I was here only since production release :) 20:35
moritz yes
jayk heh
moritz also with a well-working status quo
the analogy is apt
diakopter well, with a pretty flexible definition of "implement" 20:38
moritz right; good that we're all mentally flexible :-)
toolforger Asking again 20:41
I have rakudo installed; how do I run roast to test it?
brokenchicken Good thing Perl 7 was easy to implement :D
toolforger: installed how?
toolforger locally 20:42
in a subdirectory
brokenchicken toolforger: like built from a checkout?
toolforger I have a shell script that puts it in $PATH :-)
yes, fresh from git
s/git/github/
brokenchicken toolforger: run make stresstest in that dir
toolforger: run TEST_JOBS=8 make stresstest in that dir
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toolforger :-) 20:43
I see
brokenchicken where TEST_JOBS = ($num-of-cores * 1.3).Int
toolforger: also, there's make spectest
toolforger Do I need a git clone of roast?
brokenchicken spectest is about 56K of top-level tests and stresstest is about 130K top-level tests
It'll do it for you
toolforger Um
brokenchicken But you can clone it to t/spec if you want (say if you want to work on your fork) 20:44
toolforger I am offline pretty often, so automatic background downloads aren't ideal for me
brokenchicken OK. Just check it out to there
It'll try to fetch updates to it tho
toolforger For now, an extra download is fine though... let me try 20:45
brokenchicken You can probably see what it runs and run your own command that excludes git pull
toolforger so I run the make command inside the rakudo source dir? 20:46
brokenchicken yeah
toolforger I want to hack on the jvm port, so that means I'll need to run spectest, and possibly stresstest
brokenchicken .tell mr_ron now that I remember more specific test files, a lot of them depend on the test file located in t/spec. This is used for auxiliary files locations for some test files, like module loading ones, and the ones that include t/spec/packages 20:47
yoleaux brokenchicken: I'll pass your message to mr_ron.
brokenchicken toolforger: hehe, well, be sure to pack a lunch :) 20:48
toolforger Oh. It's complaining that Inline::Perl6 is not installed.
brokenchicken huh
toolforger s/6/5/
brokenchicken toolforger: are you sure it's not just a warning about Inline::Perl*5*?
toolforger sorry
brokenchicken Yeah, it'll skip Perl 5 compatibility tests if Inline::Perl5 ain't installed
I just copy-paste step 12 of the release guide to install it: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/..._guide.pod 20:49
But there are probably several saner ways to do it
toolforger When would I need to worry about Inline::Perl5?
brokenchicken doesn't follow the question 20:50
toolforger it's skipping Perl5 integration tests
brokenchicken Right
toolforger I'm not sure whether I should worry about that
brokenchicken You can pop open t/spectest.data in rakudo's repo and find the ones marked as perl 5
And see what they are.
But they're about Perl 5 compatibility....
toolforger Aaah... right, there's that compatibility mode 20:51
I guess I want that
I want to tinker with JVM classfile generation, and Perl5 stuff wants an extra jar so I'll want to catch if anything goes missing 20:52
off into sunset - seeya! 20:55
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raiph m: role A { method m {} }; role B does A {}; class C does A does B {} # golf of bdfoy's recent SO Q 21:21
camelia rakudo-moar 5db0b2: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Method 'm' must be resolved by class C because it exists in multiple roles (B, A)␤at <tmp>:1␤»
raiph At least LTA; I don't understood this problem yet; I didn't find an RT for it; any comments before I investigate/RT it appreciated 21:22
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RabidGravy it's actually described in the docs somewhere 21:31
moritz still looks like a bug to me 21:32
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lizmat raiph: also RT #130634 21:35
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=130634
raiph RabidGravy: is the LTA "exists in multiple roles (B,A)" due to role punning? 21:36
lizmat: thanks 21:37
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RabidGravy not sure if it's punning, it's just that as it stands it's too late to know that m came from the same place when the roles are composed into C 21:39
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moritz a method that's copied to another role or class could carry a reference to the original to make this detection work 21:43
RabidGravy yes I was wondering whether it could
lizmat I think a =:= comparison should do the trick, really 21:44
RabidGravy anyway I've fixed and tested all my modules that have a Build.pm so that they work with zef 21:45
which is all good
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raiph thanks all 21:54
I want to add a followup comment to rt #130634 21:59
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=130634
raiph I know I send an email to [email@hidden.address] 22:00
Do I just have to put #130634 in the subject to send my email to that bug?
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=130634
raiph Heh, just instinctively typed rt.com to get help for rt... 22:01
samcv what is $*DISTRO on macos?
lizmat samcv: you want dd or say output (aka, .perl or .gist) ? 22:03
samcv i want to programmatically determine if running on macos
that's all i need 22:04
[Coke] samcv: $ perl6 -e 'say $*DISTRO'
macosx (10.12.2)
lizmat $ 6 'say $*DISTRO eq "macosx"'
True
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brokenchicken Would be handy to have the fullish list of possible values, unless we got it in docs alrteady. 22:05
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samcv it's determined by the running os though? 22:05
idk for mine say $*DISTRO eq 'arch' #> True
brokenchicken for mine say $*DISTRO eq "ubuntu" #> True 22:06
There's bunch of system calls in github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/.../Distro.pm
RabidGravy yeah, it rather annoyingly uses "uname" on Unix-like system 22:08
lizmat raiph: my attempt so far: gist.github.com/lizmat/1badd87639f...ecf6ed1ca5 22:10
samcv well it's called $*DISTRO :P 22:11
it tells you the distro ;)
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jnthn The role collision problem some of you are looking at/discussing has an important subtlety 22:16
That any solution must take into account
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jnthn Roles are generic and may take extra parameters 22:17
brokenchicken hmmm... a PayPal phishing email arrived right about the time I paid by PayPal on leanpub...
jnthn Consider `role Foo[::T] { method bar(T $x) { } }`
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jnthn We concretize methods at composition time. 22:17
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jnthn This explains why =:= isn't going to work 22:17
The method that ends up in the class is a concrete rather than a generic 22:18
Since all methods are generic on ::?CLASS, and we have to instantiate that type variable when we compose. 6 years back when we didn't do that, we got various multi-dispatches really wrong.
Geth oc/master: 15 commits pushed by coke++
review: github.com/perl6/doc/compare/cfcfe...4516551d37		 22:19
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jnthn Clearly, it's fine if a method that's *only* generic on the invocant is considered non-colliding 22:19
A method that's got a signature that's otherwise generic, less so.
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jnthn So we'll need to consider the signature of the generic method and see if it contains any genericity besides on the usual ::?CLASS 22:20
It's tempting to do it somehow use .static_id on a code object, but I fear that will spoil somebody's meta-programming day in the future... 22:23
And it can only be done in combination with the generics checks anyway.
Geth oc: 0dfdcc2556 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Programs/00-running.pod6
use nbsp
 22:25
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Geth oc: a73747f62e | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Language/modules.pod6
clarify toolchain reference

Closes #1136		 23:31
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jdv79 Cannot call method 'package_at_key' on a null object 23:56
any ideas on what that means?
brokenchicken something with EXPORT sub? 23:58

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