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Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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Herby_ given a file name, whats the best way to remove the extension from the name? 00:20
test.txt, script.pl
i have a large amount of files, and they may have multiple '.' throughout the file names 00:21
basically i'm trying to print out file names to a textfile, without the extensions on them 00:23
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Alexdaniel m: say ‘hello.tar.gz’.IO.extension(‘’, parts => ^999) 00:31
camelia "hello".IO
Alexdaniel I really don't know 00:32
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Zoffix m: 'foo.bar.ber'.split('.').head.say 00:49
camelia foo
Zoffix Herby_: ^
Just use split
Herby_ nice! and grab everything except for the last element and join back to get the file name? 00:50
for your example i'd want: foo.bar
Zoffix Herby_: so you want to remove just the last part? 00:51
Herby_ yep. if I have script.pl, story.txt, I'd want to print out: script, story
but the file path might have multiple '.' in them
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Zoffix m: say ~.IO.extension: '' for <script.pl story.txt> 00:52
camelia script
story
Herby_ :)
Zoffix Herby_: there are extensive docs for .extension routine: docs.perl6.org/routine/extension#(..._extension
It can handle the first case too, but it's way faster to just use split
Herby_ gotcha
i was poking through the IO docs, figured there was a way but I didnt see it 00:53
i'll give this a shot, thanks!
Zoffix m: say "foo.tar.gz".IO.extension: '', :parts(^Inf); 00:54
camelia Can only use numeric, non-NaN Ranges as :parts
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Zoffix boo... how in the world did that slip through like a gazillion tests
m: say "foo.tar.gz".IO.extension: '', :parts(0..Inf);
camelia "foo".IO
Zoffix :|
BenGoldberg m: dd ^Inf; 00:55
camelia (0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9... lazy list)
BenGoldberg m: (^Inf).perl.say; 00:56
camelia 0..^Inf
BenGoldberg m: (0..Inf).perl.say;
camelia 0..Inf
BenGoldberg m: say "foo.tar.gz".IO.extension: '', :parts(0..^Inf);
camelia Can only use numeric, non-NaN Ranges as :parts
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
BenGoldberg m: say "foo.tar.gz".IO.extension: '', :parts(0^..Inf);
camelia Can only use numeric, non-NaN Ranges as :parts
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Zoffix m: dd (^Inf).minmax # <- reason 00:58
camelia Failure.new(exception => X::AdHoc.new(payload => "Cannot return minmax on Range with excluded ends"), backtrace => Backtrace.new)
Zoffix LTA error too; it's only non-int ranges 00:59
raschipi Shouldn't .minmax detect that the ends are ^Inf and just treat them the same as Inf?
Zoffix nope; it's not the max 01:00
raschipi m: dd (0..Inf).minmax 01:01
camelia (0, Inf)
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raschipi m: dd (0..^Inf).minmax 01:01
camelia Failure.new(exception => X::AdHoc.new(payload => "Cannot return minmax on Range with excluded ends"), backtrace => Backtrace.new)
raschipi What's the difference between (0..Inf) and (^Inf)? 01:02
Zoffix raschipi: the former includes Inf, the latter doesn't 01:03
^5 is the same as 0..^5 is the same as 0..4
raschipi Right, but is there a difference when matching an Integer? 01:04
Zoffix Matching how? 01:05
m: say 'foo.bar.ber.meow.moo'.IO.extension: '', :parts(0..^3) 01:08
camelia "foo.bar.ber.meow".IO
Zoffix m: say 'foo.bar.ber.meow.moo'.IO.extension: '', :parts(0..2)
camelia "foo.bar.ber".IO
Zoffix Another bug :( Zoffix--
raschipi Since we know there won't be an infinite number of extensions, I don't see why this kink in the interface should be as it is, it should just work... 01:10
Zoffix raschipi: I missed. Which kink? 01:11
raschipi That ^Inf doesn't work.
Zoffix raschipi: ah, it's just a bug. Any value larger than 2⁶³-1 is treated as 2⁶³-1 01:12
I mean, it's a bug above. Normal behaviour is to use 2⁶³-1 as max 01:13
Oh, you mean .minmax?
Zoffix should probably go to bed :P
raschipi I see, thanks. But I think minmax should have a way to do this for other similar cases.
Zoffix You can use .min and .max + .excludes-min and .excludes-max to do the "^Inf is same as 0..Inf" semantics 01:14
raschipi Right, thanks. 01:15
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Herby_ Zoffix: that extension worked like a champ for me and I was able to speed up my script dramatically because of it 01:37
thanks :)
Zoffix cool 01:38
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pilne confession: while learning perl5 past basic scripts and per -e stuff, i think i like ruby more, but perl6 still trumps everything else i've ever touched lol. 02:51
araraloren_ ruby is better perl :) 02:52
pilne that's what i enjoy about ruby, i can see where mattz got inspiration from perl, lisp, and smalltalk. 02:56
i just get irked that most the wind in the community is web, and most of that is rails, i'm not a webdev, and i'm not realllllly a rails fan when i do poke at that stuff.
hobbs I actually find ruby hard specifically because it does borrow so much from perl, but at the same time nothing is the same 02:57
my brain goes "you can't do that with the @ sign!" and shuts down
pilne i can survive, and enjoy the challenge of the code side and backend, but my interests are crypto, ai, roguelikes, game engines (logic stuff, not the display stuff). 02:58
heh
i get something similar when i use python, except it is more like "wait, i can't just do that?"
no offense to python, it has a lot of good things about it (i feel most languages do have their good, especially if you consider when and why developed). 02:59
hobbs that's what I mean, though, I'm more comfortable in python than ruby because at least python is wholeheartedly different :) 03:00
pilne if i had a stronger perl backround i would probably be the same, but my strongest are python/ruby, followed somewhat distantly by js, haskell, clojure, and racket. 03:01
hobbs yeah, gotcha
pilne and i know enough java and c++ to stay away when i can (:
hobbs got paid to write perl for 10 years
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araraloren_ yeah, I dont' like python, when you want some common feature, python: "sorry, i can't do that", like `switch case` `do while` .etc 03:02
pilne the funny thing is, i often looked to perlmongers and cpan when i got really stuck in those langages, for at least a conceptual direction to take python/ruby, because the community didn't really care about "a box" when it came to thinking about a problem, it just got done, period
raschipi My problem with ruby doesn't have anything to do with the language itself. Their maintenece practices are bad: "just get the last version of this gem, we don't provide any long term support".
pilne yeah, at least they are pretty hardcore about good testing. 03:03
cpan's methodology is fucking awesome 03:04
raschipi They got that right from Perl.
pilne yeah, perl makes anyone else's testing look like a lint 03:05
elses'
it's just not nearly as thurough and easy to ascertain...
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raschipi Documentation too, Perl blows everyone else out too, because CPAN doesn't allow devs to write a front page, it just shows the docs. 03:06
pilne so if you want to tell about the module, it better be doc'd.
araraloren_ Of course doc is important 03:07
raschipi Compare that to ruby, where you get a very short description.
pilne i really like it, and i'm damn amazed at how far the community has pushed it, my brain and perl5 just are having a hard time meshing.
araraloren_ I dont' want check your code, and guess how to do..
pilne comments are docs are a fallicy IMHO, comments are for a general idea of what is doing what, and anything that is "quirky" compared to idiomatic code. 03:08
raschipi Now that P6 is migrating to CPAN and getting cpan-testers support, I expect they will get awesome too. 03:09
hobbs it's funny, POD is so unstructured compared to what many other languages have... and yet all of those structured documentation formats frequently leave you no good place to put information *other* than method docs, like rationales and tutorials and FAQs and references to similar tools and... :) 03:10
pilne i think cpanimus and zef are the only module tools i've used that run tests when installing a module.
hobbs so the messiness leads to some nice things
pilne i tend to do better when trying to learn perl5 if i see the code as a conversation. 03:11
raschipi I don't think POD are expected to be by-method exclusively even, exactly because it ends up as the CPAN front page.
*is expected 03:12
hobbs raschipi: oh, definitely not :)
POD's main inspiration is clearly man pages
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raschipi man pages is generally way more terse than what usually comes in POD 03:12
geekosaur perl 5's main inspiration is common unix stuff including man pages 03:13
raschipi The closer is GNU info, I think.
hobbs some man pages are, but looks at the common format... particularly utility manpages, not function ones 03:14
NAME, SYNOPSIS, DESCRIPTION, OPTIONS, whatever other stuff, SEE ALSO, BUGS... :)
raschipi The format is close, yes. Especially because it's made to be shown in the exact same way.
hobbs the GNU folks are off on a whole other tangent
raschipi I see. Yeah, just less terse. 03:16
It is also installed as the man page for the module, of course. 03:19
hobbs right 03:20
and probably it's all because the ur-POD was perldoc perl which is also man perl
raschipi Section 3pm of the manual. 03:24
m: "/usr/local/man/man3".IO.dir.grep(/\.3pm/) 03:27
camelia ( no output )
raschipi m: "/usr/local/man/man3".IO.dir.grep(/\.3pm/).say
camelia ()
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fatguy how do i get exit status from qx ? 04:08
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moritz use run(:out, $command) instead 04:19
raschipi He left 04:21
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raschipi he,'s back 04:25
fatguy: moritz said: use run(:out, $command) instead 04:26
fatguy moritz: i tested using run, but the exitcode seems not right
ya raschipi
i tried : my $date= run "date", "x", :out; say $date.exitcode # this return 0, echo $? return 1 because -x option is not valid 04:28
zengargoyle_ seeking p6 unicode wizards... how many diacritics vs latin chars in "ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước"
geekosaur fatguy, you have to do something with $date.out first 04:30
otherwise the process and its pipe are still in limbo and there is no exitcode
zengargoyle_ that's apparently "antidisestablishmentarianism" in Vietnamese and the larger question is finding the word that uses latin alphabet + diacritics that has the most diacritics. :) 04:31
geekosaur zengargoyle_, keep in mind that (a) unicode gets normalized (b) internal format is graphemes
I think you have to get the .NFC form if you want to poke at diacritics, and then you have to beware that in NFC e.g. á is one codepoint 04:32
zengargoyle_ yes, i was thinking of the .NFD or whatever thing it is that blows them up to codepoints or such.
geekosaur I don't know if you can match just diacritics easily
moritz fatguy: you need to close .out before the exit code becomes available, at the very least
raschipi Can't help with your problem, words in Portuguese have at most two diacritics. 04:33
geekosaur fatguy, note that $date.out is *not* the output. it is an IO::Handle attached to a pipe. and that pipe has to be closed before you can get the exit status. 04:35
zengargoyle_ it's no big deal, just a question i saw on a question asking site where i thought OMG p6 should rock at this (if i can find a corpus or suitable text to check, which i imagine is probably the hardest part). 04:36
geekosaur (that isn;t really ideal but then the ideal requires you have a separate thread processing the output vs. waiting for the command to complete)
zengargoyle_, you probably want to ask samcv about this
samcv hello
let me read the scrollback 04:37
zengargoyle_ hehe, summoning is always fun. :)
fatguy moritz: thanks, i able to get it with $date.out.close.exitcode
geekosaur: noted sir ! 04:38
samcv ok. NFD will break it down into base characters + extend mark characters at least *if* it exists as a decomposible form. sometimes there is no decomposition. but for latin diacritics usually
but yes NFD should do what you want
m: "ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước".NFD.say
camelia NFD:0x<0075 031b 0323 002d 0070 0068 0061 0309 006e 002d 0111 006f 0302 0301 0069 002d 0076 0069 0065 0323 0302 0063 002d 0074 0061 0301 0063 0068 002d 006e 0068 0061 0300 002d 0074 0068 006f 031b 0300 002d 0072 0061 002d 006b 0068 006f 0309 0069 002d 00…
samcv :D 04:39
goes from 45-> 61 codepoints if you use the Norm Form decomposition
zengargoyle_ how do i do the matching for latin? i tried to grep those for * < 127 and it didn't seem to work out. 04:40
samcv m: "ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước".NFD.list.grep({.uniprop('GCB') eq 'Other' }).say 04:41
camelia (117 45 112 104 97 110 45 273 111 105 45 118 105 101 99 45 116 97 99 104 45 110 104 97 45 116 104 111 45 114 97 45 107 104 111 105 45 110 104 97 45 110 117 111 99)
samcv ok those are all the "normal" characters
m: "ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước".NFD.list.grep({.uniprop('GCB') eq 'Other' }).chrs.say
camelia u-phan-đoi-viec-tach-nha-tho-ra-khoi-nha-nuoc
zengargoyle_ nm think i may have thinko'd on my test.
samcv well normal as far as they are base characters 04:42
though if you used emoji doing that would miss emoji base characters but. i think that's beside what you're doing
thinko'd?
zengargoyle_ samcv++ thanks for the insight. 04:43
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zengargoyle_ typo'd, thinko'd 04:43
raschipi Then count what changed to know how many had diacritics.
u: đ
samcv yep
unicodable6 raschipi, U+0111 LATIN SMALL LETTER D WITH STROKE [Ll] (đ)
zengargoyle_ i had my .grep after a .elems and missied it. :P
samcv or are you counting diacrititcs or nuumber of characters which have diacritics on them 04:44
characters can have multiple diacritics
or is that irrelevant for our uses
zengargoyle_, using GCB will be better than sorting <127 as you can see
otherwise you'd lose that fancy d
zengargoyle_ Many languages add diacritics or special characters to the Latin alphabet. What word—a real word, not a made-up one—contains the most such characters?
samcv đ
and đ doesnt't decompose
so i guess you could count that one manually 04:45
zengargoyle_ the question isn't really that specific at the moment...
samcv :P
but i see if you're only looking at vietnames
raschipi 'đ' is to 'd' what 't' is to 'l'
zengargoyle_ the vietnamese was just the first answer sombody posted. i don't even know if it's a correct example yet. :) 04:46
samcv m: my $s = "ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước"; my $s1 = $s.NFD.list.grep({.uniprop('GCB') eq 'Other' }); $s.NFD.elems - $s1.elems + $s1.grep({$_ > 127}).elems.say 04:47
camelia WARNINGS for <tmp>:
Useless use of "+" in expression "- $s1.elems + $s1.grep({$_ > 127}).elems.say" in sink context (line 1)
1
samcv m: my $s = "ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước"; my $s1 = $s.NFD.list.grep({.uniprop('GCB') eq 'Other' }); say $s.NFD.elems - $s1.elems + $s1.grep({$_ > 127}).elems
camelia 17
samcv there you go :) 04:48
that also accounts for things that do not decompose
GCB=Other that don't decompose that is
zengargoyle_ sweet. 04:49
samcv i feel proud now heh
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samcv was fun to solve 04:49
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raschipi I remember there was a function that stripped diacritica, but can't remember the name now... 04:51
samcv and that should count the number of diacritics themselves as opposed to the number of characters which have diacritics (which you'd be counting if you did $s.chars.grep({$_> 127}).elems
raschipi, in perl6?
raschipi Yeah
samcv or do you mean ignoremark regex or something
though that doesn't strip them, but allows you to match them 04:52
raschipi You gave it a charachter with a diacritic and it applied that diacritic to some other character.
samcv ugh that reminds me. how ignoremark and ignorecase together doesn't always work. eek working on that scares me thinking
oh
raschipi Or if you gave it a charachter without a diacritic, it took them away.
samcv i think i remember something
i forget what it is though but it sounds familiar
raschipi That way it can be done without messing with bytes. 04:53
pilne either zoffix's slides or the perl6intro list the "length of a unicode" functions, i recall there being three, but i can't remember their smeggin names atm, the high ABV is catching up quick 04:54
moritz EastAsianWidth or something like that? 04:55
raschipi samemark is the name 04:57
samcv oo yep that's it
raschipi m: 'a'.samemark('ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước') 04:58
camelia ( no output )
raschipi m: 'a'.samemark('ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước').say
camelia ạ̛
raschipi Other way around 04:59
samcv it's cool. not sure when i'd use it. but can't hurt having more exciting things :P
i'm sure it will be really useful for someone somewhere. and save them loads of time
raschipi m: 'ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước'.samemark('a')
camelia ( no output )
raschipi m: 'ự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước'.samemark('a').say
camelia u-phan-đoi-viec-tach-nha-tho-ra-khoi-nha-nuoc
samcv 'đ'.samemark('a').say 05:00
m: 'đ'.samemark('a').say
camelia đ
samcv yeah so if it can't decompose it just keeps it
raschipi People strip diacritics to filter expletives, for example.
samcv i wonder... how it works with Prepend characters. since i just added support to MVM recently for that. i bet it may break
or it could work depending.
before unicode 9.0, diacritics always came *after* the base character. 05:01
with prepend marks. they throw that outh the window and come before
in any case. should have something added to roast to test it even if it doesn't work atm
raschipi That will get the trolls going...
samcv prepend marks? 05:02
raschipi Yeah.
The unicode-haters.
samcv heh
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raschipi That think ASCII is good enough for them and everyone else in the world can keep the mess that are locale-specific encodings. 05:03
samcv boring!
raschipi The other day there was one that said Perl6 should drop Unicode support. I said he should try to convince Larry to not be able to write Chinese and French on the same file. 05:04
samcv i wonder if i should roll ignoremark and case insensitive regex into my grant
i didn't plan to include it in there. but i think it would achieve many of the things my grant seeks to do
raschipi I think you must do it. 05:05
samcv even if it takes me a little longer to complete
yeah i agree
pilne unicode is the future, ignoring it is the ostrich solution
samcv dodo?
raschipi Ask for more money.
samcv i probably won't. i mean the money is mostly so i can 1. do some of the less fun parts of the unicode retrofit and 2. be able to hold off on getting a job for a while longer and keep working on perl 6 05:06
since i do very much enjoy contributing 05:07
parv samcv++ thanks for your work. 05:08
samcv you're very welcome
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zengargoyle_ yay samcv++ again for good measure. :) 05:28
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TEttinger huh, I'm curious what all that vietnamese text was up there 06:39
supporting vietnamese is a win-nguyen
moritz oh hai. Here's my Perl 6 book decision tree as an image: github.com/moritz/perl6book-web/bl...ree/v1.png 06:43
feedback welcome
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TEttinger might want a "start here," though it is pretty clear 06:43
moritz (or improvements; the libreoffice source file sits right next to it in the same directory) 06:44
TEttinger which did you write? 06:45
moritz if you can't tell from the chart, that's good :-)
Fundamentals
TEttinger oh, that was my guess
practical is something of a weasel word, in wikipedia parlance 06:46
moritz what would you use instead?
TEttinger it's just none of the others had qualifiers
other than "structured" 06:47
I think it's fair
you aren't writing wikipedia, you're writing a book :)
moritz I wouldn't want to add "constructed examples" to "Perl 6 at a Glance" though :)
TEttinger practical examples in what fields? 06:48
scripts for handling sysadmin tasks?
complex text parsing and handling? 06:49
moritz different fields: sysadmin, data visualization, Unicode research, parsing
TEttinger I'm not sure how practical unicode research is, since as samcv was saying they can change the rug while you're standing on it, as with prepend marks
they being unicode consortium 06:50
but if it's like census data where there's a ton of languages at play, sure
moritz Unicode research as in "how do I find (about) character XY?" 06:51
parv moritz, both of "Do you know other ..." & "primary goal" rhombii look to be perfectly good starting places but the arrow connecting the two is unidirectional 06:58
s/rhombii/rhombi/ 06:59
moritz parv: do you think there should be an explicit staring point? 07:10
parv moritz, depends on how formal you want to be. i don't have enough formal comp sc background & have used perl 5 for 10+ years 07:12
moritz raw.githubusercontent.com/moritz/p...ree/v1.png now with an obvious start marker 07:15
parv "Do you know .." could point to "No, learn comp sc" and "No, learn perl 6". "primary goal" could be another starting place, and pointing to "learn comp sc" & "learn perl " 07:16
ok, that works too 07:17
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parv moritz, is (would) there (be) a reference book? or, would that be too early due to changes in rakudo? 07:21
raschipi parv: There are rumors that TIMTOWDY is working on a reference book. 07:23
parv "perl 6 at a glance" does it list classes, methods; regex building, etc? 07:24
moritz parv: the closest we come to reference material is doc.perl6.org
parv raschipi, oh sweet.
moritz raschipi: more like "programming perl 6"
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parv thanks moritz. 07:24
moritz I don't see much value in a reference in book format 07:25
sammers hi all
moritz which print several hundred pages of built-in class and method documentation when it's so much easier to search and look up in electronic form?
hi sammers
s/which/why/
araraloren_ hi 07:26
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raschipi o/ 07:26
parv ho
sammers question about the ==> feed behavior, in comparison to the . chaining behavior... 07:29
m: sub foo($a, $b) { "We have: $a" }; "This should be a".&foo("this should be b").say;
camelia We have: This should be a
sammers chaining assigns the Str to $a, then the Str pass via &foo assigns it to $b 07:30
m: sub foo($a, $b) { "We have: $a" }; "This should be a" ==> foo("this should be b") ==> say();
camelia We have: this should be b
sammers but the ==> feed operator ignores the piped Str 07:31
some other languages that have this sort of piping assign the value piped to the function to the first parameter 07:32
like the . chaining version
araraloren In perl6 it's last
docs.perl6.org/routine/==%3E
sammers ah 07:33
ok, that works
does anyone know what the decision was to use a different behavior between the two? 07:35
araraloren I dont' know, if there has a <== it would be work as you expect 07:37
And it has
docs.perl6.org/routine/%3C==
raschipi sammers: Perl6 functions want the data to be manipulated to be on the last parameter, like shell commands 07:39
The dot uses a special first slot that functions know to treat differently. 07:40
sammers raschipi, that makes perfect sense
araraloren Oh, but that opereator not what you wanted.
raschipi multi sub comb(Str:D $matcher, Str:D $input, $limit = Inf) 07:41
multi method comb(Str:D $input:)
The method version has : after Str $input
That means it's a method that can be called in Str objects 07:42
araraloren Oh, that was compatible to method. 07:43
raschipi So, the first thing to note is that when you use ==>, you're using a different version than when you use .
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raschipi ==> calls a suroutine that expects the data on the end, . calls a method that expects the data at the start. 07:43
That's why ==> puts the data at the end and . puts the data at the start. 07:44
I think languages that put it at the start don't have multiple dispatch like this?
araraloren .& 07:47
sammers something like elixir for example does the data at start after |>
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raschipi sammers: Did you knew about multidispatch? 07:48
sammers yeah
raschipi So, the secret is that they call different versions. 07:49
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sammers raschipi, thanks for explanation, makes sense 07:57
araraloren seems like I misunderstand what you said, sorry :P 08:00
zengargoyle_ .tell samcv diacritic counting went over well. now looking for good word lists.
yoleaux zengargoyle_: I'll pass your message to samcv.
samcv :-D
yoleaux 08:00Z <zengargoyle_> samcv: diacritic counting went over well. now looking for good word lists.
samcv i'm curious what you find! 08:01
and yes perl 6 is the best language to do this in :-D
raschipi Because of your work, samcv++
zengargoyle_ and any p6 peeps who might speak a language with a lot of latin-ish characters and a bunch of funny diacritics who know about a /usr/share/words type of source material.... 08:02
curious minds want to know. :) 08:03
raschipi I got this link: docs.perl6.org/syntax/&?ROUTINE but it returns a 404
moritz raschipi: which did you get that link from?
ah, from the search box 08:04
please open an issue: github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/C...rting-bugs
samcv thx raschipi
that's interesting. we have other links with & and ? that are fine 08:05
pls report :)
araraloren docs.perl6.org/routine/.& also 404
zengargoyle_ a 22k list of common Vietnamese and a 60k of words from movie subtitles didn't come close to the person who knew 'antidisestablishmentarianism'. :P 08:06
parv WTF? 08:07
lol
zengargoyle_ would have probably majored in linguistics if i had known there was such a thing when i went of to college. 08:09
raschipi I don't know how to add a label on github issues. 08:14
github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1358
sammers: Have a look at this: docs.perl6.org/language/operators#...fix_.& 08:21
sammers raschipi, thanks, that was my first example 08:22
m: sub foo($a, $b) { "We have: $a" }; "This should be a".&foo("this should be b").say;
camelia We have: This should be a
sammers what does that mean? "Technically this is not an operator, but syntax special-cased in the compiler."? 08:23
raschipi Do you think it should be the last argument in that case?
sammers I mean, I understand the words, but whas is the impact of that?
actually, I don't have a preference, I just wish it was consistent between ., .&, ==>, and <== 08:24
three of those are first param, only ==> is last 08:25
araraloren No, <== is last parameter too, but to pass from right to left 08:31
sammers right, but from the sub signature definition perspecive it is also the first parameter. 08:34
in all of those situations, except for ==>, we can create a routine, sub foo($first, $second, ...) and the piping / chaining will behave the same. 08:35
araraloren I have no problem with ==>. It's fine, whether last or first. 08:38
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sammers araraloren, right, not going to lose any sleep over it. understanding the behavior clears it up. 08:45
araraloren yeah, ^_< 08:46
raschipi g'night people 08:55
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parv bye 09:07
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samcv zengargoyle_, but is that word actually a real word though 09:44
like a Vietnamese person would say it is a word
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vetmaster hi! 09:50
I try to run the Euclidean algorithm, but the error "can't assign an immutable variable" occurs 09:51
ideone.com/lWJ3ic
if I'd like to reassign a function argument, how can I do this?
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vetmaster I see a similar bug there rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=130855 09:57
samcv vetmaster, you want `is copy` 09:58
sub euclidean (Int $a is copy, Int $b is copy) 09:59
because otherwise you try and assign to the number itself
if you passed in a variable you could write to it by setting it with ($a is rw)
but since you are passing in the number itself. it needs is copy, so you are then working with a variable not an immutable number 10:00
vetmaster samcv: thank you, it works!! 10:01
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vetmaster ideone.com/X3t1Uj 10:38
I want to make a simple grammar to parse a cookie string
but I get an error on the line 8 10:39
I want to set a key-value pair
<name>, '=' sign and <content>
but it doesn't work
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araraloren_ :( 10:46
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zengargoyle_ samcv: i have no clue about the veracity of the Vietnamese word. and i'm not sure about the dashes, i just assume that somebody who could type it (or even cut-n-paste it) has some idea that it's an actual word... :) 10:55
Japanese (and i think Chinese) pretty much don't use spaces at all, so what's a word boundry is *much* harder than just splitting on spaces. 10:57
so i'm just assuming that's one utterance that carries some meaning that maps as close to a word. probably should exclude the '-' though. 10:59
vetmaster this doesn't work too ideone.com/ansmt2
jnthn The error says why 11:02
The , must be quoted
','*
moritz you probably meant ',' instead of <,>
jnthn There's a nicer way to write this though 11:03
Well, depending on exactly what you want to match 11:04
Instead of the ','* in pair, you can do <pair>* % [','+]
Where % means "separated by"
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vetmaster jnthn: thank you, it works! 11:07
ideone.com/ansmt2
and yet another question..
'<key> \h* '=' \h* <value>'
is \h* = \h* the nicest solution? 11:08
zengargoyle_ totally confused because i saw the first link after it was corrected. :)
timotimo vetmaster: you can also use (\h*) ** 2 % '=' :)
moritz vetmaster: it's nicer to use a token ws { \h* }, and then use a rule that automatically inserts ws calls where there's whietspace
timotimo: I find that... slightly more obscure :-) 11:09
vetmaster many thanks :-) 11:10
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zengargoyle_ hehe, vdict.com/ (Vietnamese - English - French - Chinese Dictionary) barfs on "antidisestablishmentarianism" but i sorta guess that's to be expected. :P 11:19
moritz I've yet to find a DE <-> EN dictionary that contains "Frischdampfschnellschlussschieber" :-) 11:22
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moritz general rant time: templates (like for producing HTML) make quite some assumptions on the data structures passed to them 11:28
so, the're some kind of interface, or API
and in "regular" programming, we have tools for validating data at interfaces (like, uhm, types and stuff) 11:29
zengargoyle_ google translate to the rescue! Sự-phản-đối-việc-tách-nhà-thờ-ra-khỏi-nhà-nước -> The protest-the-separation-of-church-out-of-state house
moritz yet most template systems I've seen don't even attempt to provide any kind of tools for formalizing this API 11:30
zengargoyle_: are they protesting *for* or *against* separation of church or state? :-)
those subtleties get lost in translation so easily
zengargoyle_ still don't know what "Live steam quick-closing slide" means. :P
moritz zengargoyle_: more like fresh steam quick-closing valve; part of safety equipment of power plants 11:31
zengargoyle_ heh. 11:32
all i got was schnell from many hours of Hogan's Heros
moritz German has this beautiful capacity to concatenate words nearly endlessly
zengargoyle_ and the joke only comes at the end. 11:33
moritz like all good jokes :-)
zengargoyle_ since google handled the Vietnamese translation to a margin of understandability, i'm going to just guess that spaces/dashes separating syllables are a lexical convenience and that is a cromulent Vietnamese 'word'. 11:43
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zengargoyle_ which brings up the horror of actually needing a list of 'words' or trying to parse semantics to find 'word' boundries vs just splitting on spaces which makes the whole question really hard. :) 11:46
'cause i don't grok how many foreign languages work. :P 11:47
huf i wouldnt trust google translate at all 11:55
the ridiculous sort of error rate is massive
eg, this seems to produce sensible results, but in fact it's ridiculous nonsense: translate.google.com/#auto/en/mert...0beszeltek 11:56
same: translate.google.com/#hu/en/k%C3%B...g%20bazmeg
also weird and impossible to trust: translate.google.com/#hu/en/vid%C3%A9k%20bazmeg 11:57
this is a rather big miss too: translate.google.com/#auto/fr/Alwa...to%20quit.
this is surreal: translate.google.com/#auto/en/m%C3%B3ricka
zengargoyle_ started firestorm, oops. 12:03
there's a reason why google translate was the *last* thing i checked. and a reason why i trusted someone who said "X eq Y" and then i thought 'OK, close enough'. 12:05
i don't really trust google translate either. 12:06
last resort.
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zengargoyle_ i'd like to know how far off google translate was for your phrases, but i doubt many others would here in the #perl6 12:13
huf zengargoyle_: "shitty language" somehow mysteriously became "soviet language", things like that.
zengargoyle_: a homophobic slur becomes a plain, unthreatening "hey" 12:14
and the diminutive for the local variant of the name moritz becomes "dream about", even though the word dream is "álom"
these are just the random gtranslate fails i grepped out of my irc logs :) 12:15
zengargoyle_ ah, could you reasonably understand the translation even if it wasn't exactly correct.
huf no, the translations make some kind of sense sometimes (not the same sense as the original, mind you) but you dont know how big the error is, so you cant be confident at all 12:16
nine Google translate can also give scarily accurate translations. Down to picking the right words for the scientific field. Since it's based entirely on statistical analysis, I guess it just works much better on longer texts. 12:18
zengargoyle_ i'd guess i could spout some regional slang at translate and have it go horribly wrong.
and i guess i just go for nouns and verbs and try to understand a bit. 12:19
"Slackjawed redneck motherf*cker" -> JP -> EN -> "Slack Jockey country grandmother." :P 12:21
nine you typo'ed "motherfucker", no wonder it's not accurate ;) 12:22
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zengargoyle_ is a southern gentleman 40 years removed. 12:26
moritz 14:14 < huf> and the diminutive for the local variant of the name moritz becomes "dream about", even though the word dream is "álom" 12:35
now I get to call myself a certified dreamer :-)
zengargoyle_ hehe, it'd totally take 'dream about' too. :) 12:36
moritz huf: btw what language is that, and what's the diminutive? 12:37
huf moritz: hungarian, and as it said in the link, móricka 12:42
moritz: also a standard character in many jokes
he's the joker. pistike is the fuckup. :D 12:43
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ajb p6: "ac b" ~~ /\w+ % \s/ 14:13
camelia ( no output )
ajb p6: "ac b" ~~ /\w+ % \s/; $/.say
camelia ｢a｣
ajb p6: "ac b" ~~ /[\w+]+ % \s/; $/.say 14:14
camelia ｢ac b｣
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moritz perl6book.com/new/ now with a bit of CSS 14:23
timotimo moritz: have you considered using flexbox for the individual books? 14:24
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moritz timotimo: I've heard of flexbox as a buzzword, but never learned it 14:24
timotimo: what would it do?
nadim .seen azawawi 14:25
yoleaux I saw azawawi 27 May 2017 12:50Z in #perl6: <azawawi> jnthn: in Graphics::PLplot im aiming on providing Raw (native) and cooked with sugar API :)
timotimo moritz: it'd let multiple boxes sit in a row and depending on how much space there is it'd be more or fewer per row
moritz timotimo: do I have to define a fixed width for that? 14:26
pmurias moritz: you can center stuff without ugly hacks
nadim sunny Sunday to all, does anyone know where azawawi usually lurks? 14:27
timotimo nope, no fixed width needed
moritz can I can declare that I want them all to have the same width, without defining the width myself? 14:29
.oO( I guess I should just google it)
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timotimo hm, that's a good question 14:31
that might not be possible
it could work if you go from "multiple things per row" to "multiple things per column" 14:32
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moritz perl6book.com/new/ 14:35
updated
how do I get it to wrap?
mst pay it 50 cents? 14:36
moritz it seems to ignore the flex-wrap: row 14:37
mst I know just enough about CSS to know I have no idea how any of it works, so I'm afraid terribad puns are the only assistance I can offer 14:38
moritz so I figured :) 14:39
ah, it's called "flex-wrap: wrap", not "flex-wrap: row" 14:42
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araraloren_ :( 14:43
moritz chromium++ # the dev tools explained the error to me
mst araraloren_: do we need to get duct tape for your connection? 14:44
araraloren_ haha, no :)
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moritz perl6book.com/new/ updated 14:48
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moritz ... now moved to perl6book.com/ 15:13
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pmurias the Perl 6 book market seems crowded 15:35
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moritz try creating the same thing for JS or Python :-) 15:48
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Herby_ moritz: when is your book's release date? 16:13
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moritz Herby_: I don't have one yet. but if you sign up for the mailing list, I'll inform you when it's out :-) 16:33
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Geth doc: f62e8604b1 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
Fix a couple of typos
 16:54
_cronus hello. I have been following perl6 introduction at perl6intro.com/. In 9.10. Introspection I tried to access $!name from Employee class but got "Attribute $!name not declared in class Employee" but it shows in the output of say $jane.^attributes; It probably is too early for me to ask such questions, but I'm curious about the rationality behind this. 16:59
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jnthn _cronus: Attributes are private to the class, and not visible to subclasses. However, since the attribute also declares an accessor in this case, then self.name or $.name will provide access to it. 17:14
vetmaster is there some module like 'difflib' for python?
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vetmaster as I see, I can use Text::Levenshtein with Inline::Perl5 17:16
_cronus jnthn: thanks. 17:18
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_cronus hello. I've been following the perl introduction at perl6intro.com/#_native_calling_interface. I created the C function, copiled it and linked it to libncitest.so. Running ncitest.pl6 I get 'Cannot locate native library '/home/cronus/perl6intro.com/ncitest.so': /home/cronus/perl6intro.com/ncitest.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory' 19:43
after renaming libncitest.so to ncitest.so it works. 19:44
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Geth doc: 56ee890330 | (Jan-Olof Hendig)++ | doc/Language/quoting.pod6
Fixed a few typos
 20:01
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Geth ecosystem: 68cdcb2629 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Add Temp::Path to ecosystem

  "Make a temporary path, file, or directory":
  github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-Temp-Path		 20:08
20:08 vetmaster joined
vetmaster is it good to port perl5 modules to perl6? 20:09
or it is better to use Inline::Perl5?
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moritz depends on what you want 20:10
Zoffix vetmaster: it's best to redesign from scratch. Mere carbon-copy ports in my experience suck badly.
vetmaster: so if all you wanted to do is to just convert the code to Perl 6, then IMO just use Inline::Perl5. 20:11
moritz if you want to get started quickly, and are OK with the more complex deplyoments from Inline::Perl5, that's the faster approach 20:12
but often Perl 6 offers some features (such as named arguments) that can really improve APIs
Zoffix vetmaster: not to toot my own horn, but compare File::Temp that's a port of a Perl 5 module to Temp::Path ( github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-Temp-Path ). File::Temp gives you a string and an open IO::Handle. In Perl 5 handles auto-closed on scope leave, but in Perl 6 they aren't. Perl 5 has no core path object, but Perl 6 has IO::Path. So with File::Temp you're stuck with a string that's not really what you 20:14
want and a handle that's you're forced to close.
Also File::Temp has a bug where it'll delete a potentially good file if you `chdir`.
Presumable Perl 5's version doesn't have that bug.
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MasterDuke vetmaster: btw, if you're looking for a string difference/distance module, there's Text::Diff::Sift4 (caveat, i wrote it) 20:15
yoleaux 00:09Z <Zoffix> MasterDuke: something about '-'.IO.slurp.... No idea. Don't have time ATM to look. File a ticket, I'd think
MasterDuke yoleaux: that's old news
Zoffix I fixed that bug already 20:16
AlexDaniel vetmaster: and I should tell ya, Text::Diff::Sift4 is relatively fast! (caveat, I optimized it)
vetmaster then, are Python modules worth porting to Perl6?
AlexDaniel mostly, yes 20:17
so that you can have perl6-ish API
vetmaster so, Inline::Python doesn't work fast and comfortly enough
?
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nine vetmaster: Inline::Python could use some love. There are a couple of performance optimizations I should port from Inline::Perl5 and also a lot of features. 20:23
Zoffix vetmaster: that's subjective, isn't it? It's also a chicken-and-egg situation: if no one uses it because it's slow and uncomfortable, no one is motivated to make it faster and comfortable :)
BenGoldberg _cronus, What happens if you replace "$*CWD/ncitest" with "ncitest"
nine vetmaster: That said, it may still be ok, depending on your use case. Also my motivation for improving depends on user feedback :)
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_cronus BenGoldberg: I get 'Cannot locate native library 'ncitest.so': ncitest.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory' 20:26
BenGoldberg Hmm...
BenGoldberg thought that NativeCall automatically prepended 'lib' on linux. 20:27
Zoffix _cronus: what OS are you on?
nine The tutorial really should use %?RESOURCES for referencing the native lib 20:28
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_cronus BenGoldberg: ubuntu 16.04 using using rakudo from the repositories. perl6 -v -> This is perl6 version 2015.11 built on MoarVM version 2015.11 20:29
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Zoffix oooph 20:30
That's ancient
That's even pre-first-release release.
huggable: debs
huggable Zoffix, nothing found
nine BenGoldberg: NativeCall will not modify the library name if it already has a file extension.
Zoffix huggable: stop losing factoids!
huggable Zoffix, nothing found
Zoffix huggable: deb
huggable Zoffix, CentOS, Debian, Fedora and Ubuntu Rakudo packages: github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/releases
Zoffix _cronus: ^ I suggest you upgrade. You're basically using a beta release of perl 6.
BenGoldberg nine, I'm not suggesting he add an extension. That's NativeCall's job. 20:31
Zoffix
.oO( he? )
 20:32
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_cronus Zoffix: I'll do that. thanks. 20:35
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BenGoldberg huggable, source 20:38
huggable BenGoldberg, See github.com/zoffixznet/huggable
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BenGoldberg .tell Zoffix you might want to change huggable so that if someone asks for a nonexistant factoid, it asks "Did you mean... {a list of the most similarly named ones}?" 20:41
yoleaux BenGoldberg: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
_cronus BenGoldberg: Seems you were right, just upgraded to 20170300-03 and it automatically adds lib prefix.
BenGoldberg _cronus :)
AlexDaniel yay 20:42
BenGoldberg What a difference two years worth of upgrades makes ;)
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AlexDaniel BenGoldberg: there's also this: github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-IRC-Cl...d/issues/3 20:42
BenGoldberg: but yeah, create an issue there 20:43
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Geth doc: b33dd06206 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Iterator.pod6
Document Iterator protocol forbids…

  …trying to fetch data after IterationEnd		 21:45
BenGoldberg . o O (Here be nasal demons) 21:48
Geth doc: 7ff09c8fc4 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Iterator.pod6
Misspell behaviour on purpose
 21:56
doc: 27a9d5b999 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Iterator.pod6
And un-defed the undefined
 21:57
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travis-ci Doc build failed. Zoffix Znet 'Misspell behaviour on purpose' 22:11
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/239405983 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/b33dd...f09c8fc446
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travis-ci Doc build failed. Zoffix Znet 'And un-defed the undefined' 22:13
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/239406257 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/7ff09...a9d5b99972
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BenGoldberg m: dd &say.HOW.^methods; 22:39
camelia X::Method::NotFound exception produced no message
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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BenGoldberg bisectable6: dd &say.HOW.^methods; 22:40
bisectable6 BenGoldberg, Bisecting by output (old=2015.12 new=36bc410) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
BenGoldberg, bisect log: gist.github.com/173d2aa73de9585f25...7c27daabd5
BenGoldberg, (2016-09-27) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/22...0f14b9c05c
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AlexDaniel bisectable6: old=2016.10 dd &say.HOW.^methods; 23:11
bisectable6 AlexDaniel, Bisecting by output (old=2016.10 new=36bc410) because on both starting points the exit code is 1
AlexDaniel oh come on… 23:12
bisectable6 AlexDaniel, bisect log: gist.github.com/f81037913bb6dbc8e0...efaf79d148
AlexDaniel, (2017-06-01) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c8...3cb5fd2068
23:12 Rawriful left
AlexDaniel BenGoldberg: maybe you wanted to find this change ↑ 23:12
BenGoldberg: see this for a bigger picture: gist.github.com/77cf4168ade069b00d...35085128e9
note to everyone: use committable first with “releases” or “all”, then bisect. Otherwise you have no idea what you're bisecting, and looking through the log normally does not help 23:14
MasterDuke: ↑ maybe you're interested in this change 23:15
BenGoldberg What a huge variety of different error messages :( 23:18
m: my &foo; &foo = &say; dd &foo.VAR; &foo = Nil; dd &foo.VAR; 23:26
camelia Sub.new
Invocant of method 'perlseen' must be an object instance of type 'Mu', not a type object of type 'Callable'. Did you forget a '.new'?
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
BenGoldberg wonders what .perlseen is
Not to mention, isn't everything a Mu? 23:27
geekosaur loop detection aid, I think. and, the point there is object instance vs. type object, not Mu vs. Callable
that additional information is presented to help identify where the error occurs, although here you'd need --ll-exception to deal because it's an internal glitch 23:28
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