»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 July 2018.
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Herby_ o/ 01:19
timotimo \o 01:20
Herby_ timotimo: how goes it? 01:22
timotimo it's a'ight 01:23
and you?
Herby_ 'bout the same 01:24
timotimo i'm all 'bout that same, 'bout that same
twitter.com/loltimo/status/1048643377301016577 - look, i made a colorful 01:26
Herby_ timotimo: awesome. what hardware you using? 01:27
timotimo it was a piece of hardware that a german electronics online/phone store offered a couple of years ago 01:30
it was supposed to be a picture frame, you could upload jpegs and it'd give you a slideshow 01:31
and there was a debug mode that would let you flash updates, so people went ahead and wrote their own custom firmware
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timotimo vimeo.com/97657374 - oooh this is fun 01:32
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timotimo gnite 01:56
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Herby_ night! 02:02
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Zoffix New blog post: "A Request to Larry Wall to Create a Language Name Alias for Perl 6": perl6.party/post/A-Request-to-Larr...for-Perl-6 04:33
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Geth doc: b620e944e2 | (Nacho Mas)++ | doc/Language/math.pod6
Corrects some imprecissions in the "Doing math with Perl_6" article

  * Disclaimer about the purported mathematical field nature of Rat, Num
   and Complex
  * Rephrases the Int section to be more consistent
  * Matrices are not, in general, a field but a ring
  * Hamilton's quaternions are not a field, but an algebra over the real
   numbers
  * Claiming that ℝ is a sequence makes very little sense from a
   mathematical standpoint. Lacking further explanation/justification,
   the reference should be dropped until it can be given some meaning.		 06:32
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/math
doc: 1c884f9259 | (Nacho Mas)++ | doc/Language/math.pod6
Fixes typo
doc: 82e85b5e9c | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/math.pod6
Merge pull request #2362 from cronos2/master

Corrects some imprecisions in the "Doing math with Perl 6" article Thanks a lot!
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squashable6 🍕 JJ++ wrote a comment on “Check table names before creating them”: github.com/FCO/Red/issues/52#issue...-427629764 06:35
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Xliff Squashathon still going? 06:51
jmerelo squashable6: status
squashable6 jmerelo, 🍕🍕 SQUASHathon is in progress! The end of the event in ≈5 hours. See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Mont...Squash-Day
jmerelo, Log and stats: gist.github.com/7a08c9527a56fe1448...92492cd810 06:52
jmerelo Xliff: ^^^
squashable6 🍕 JJ++ opened pull request “Reorganizes examples”: github.com/FCO/Test-Fuzz/pull/12
🍕 JJ++ opened issue “Weird error in test.p6”: github.com/FCO/Test-Fuzz/issues/13 06:53
🍕 JJ++ edited issue “Weird error in test.p6”: github.com/FCO/Test-Fuzz/issues/13 06:59
🍕 JJ++ opened pull request “Fixes example”: github.com/FCO/Test-Fuzz/pull/14 07:05
Xliff jj: Missing a few constants. Did you want standard gravity (g), electron-mass, neutron-mass and proton-mass? 07:06
Let me know and I will write the tests and submit a PR
jmerelo Xliff: if I remember correctly, I should have the first two, not the others. By all means, give them a try. Thanks! 07:07
Xliff Is Constants.pm for constants not found in Parser/ ?
jmerelo Xliff: sorry, what? 07:08
Xliff p6-Math-Parser has a Constants.pm and another file called ebyteParse-output.txt
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Xliff I can find some of the constants I mentioned in the 2nd file, but not in the first. 07:09
jmerelo Xliff: not mine, I think.
Xliff OK.
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jmerelo Xliff: oh, yes, that was mine. 07:09
A PR I didn't remember 07:10
Sorry
So, back to this "Constants.pm for constants not found in Parser/"
Xliff: it should be in lib/Math/Constants.pm6 07:11
Xliff OK, then. Now I feel silly, because my changes are GONE.
TYou have universal G, but not standard g
Electron mass, photon mass and neutron mass are not in Constants.pm 07:12
jmerelo Xliff: then g would be great. And the rest too, I guess :-) Thanks!
Xliff And there are a lot more listed in the second file, but not in Constants.pm
I will regen and send a quick PR, then.
squashable6 🍕 JJ++ synchronize pull request “Add magnetic permittivit…”: github.com/JJ/p6-math-constants/pull/9 07:13
jmerelo Xliff: do a pull --rebase, I'm solving conflicts with older PRs
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squashable6 🍕 JJ++ merged pull request “Add magnetic permittivit…”: github.com/JJ/p6-math-constants/pull/9 07:16
Xliff OK. Done. 07:19
squashable6 🍕 JJ++ wrote a comment on “Build a URI from parts”: github.com/perl6-community-modules...-427631821 07:20
🍕 JJ++ closed pull request “Added Avogadro's number and Alpha particle mass”: github.com/JJ/p6-math-constants/pull/11 07:21
Xliff uniname: c 07:23
.uniname: c
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squashable6 🍕 JJ++ wrote a comment on “Added Euler–Mascheroni constant”: github.com/JJ/p6-math-constants/pu...-427631996 07:23
🍕 JJ++ closed pull request “Added Euler–Mascheroni constant”: github.com/JJ/p6-math-constants/pull/13
Xliff m: c.uniname.say 07:24
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
c used at line 1
Xliff m: 'c'.uniname.say
camelia LATIN SMALL LETTER C
Xliff m: 'c'.uniname.say
camelia LATIN SMALL LETTER C
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Xliff m: 'c'.uniname.say 07:24
camelia LATIN SMALL LETTER C
squashable6 🍕 JJ++ wrote a comment on “Test fails with old versions of Perl 6”: github.com/perl6/DBIish/issues/132...-427632197 07:28
🍕 JJ++ closed issue “Test fails with old versions of Perl 6”: github.com/perl6/DBIish/issues/132
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squashable6 🍕 Xliff++ opened pull request “Adds new constants”: github.com/JJ/p6-math-constants/pull/17 07:32
🍕🍕🍕 First contribution by Xliff++! ♥
Xliff YAY!
And with that, I will prolly depart until tomorrow.
jmerelo Xliff: waiting for tests, will accept soon-ish. Thanks! Sleep well :-) 07:33
Xliff Wondering if there are Perl6 bindings to GTK::Pixbuf.
I don't see anything on modules.perl6.org
jmerelo Xliff: probably not
Xliff Cool. Thanks.
squashable6 🍕 JJ++ merged pull request “Adds new constants”: github.com/JJ/p6-math-constants/pull/17 07:40
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squashable6 🍕 JJ++ opened pull request “Adds some benchmarks”: github.com/timo/json_fast/pull/52 08:00
🍕🍕🍕 First contribution by araraloren++! ♥ 08:09
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jmerelo squashable6: status 08:51
squashable6 jmerelo, 🍕🍕 SQUASHathon is in progress! The end of the event in ≈3 hours. See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Mont...Squash-Day
jmerelo, Log and stats: gist.github.com/afe535d4478d0dd043...758930b6fe
jmerelo We're almost there!
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squashable6 🍕 jonathanstowe++ wrote a comment on “Build a URI from parts”: github.com/perl6-community-modules...-427637088 08:58
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lizmat weekly: 6guts.wordpress.com/2018/10/06/spe...-creation/ 09:25
notable6 lizmat, Noted!
squashable6 🍕 JJ++ wrote a comment on “sake help”: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/issues/22...-427638735 09:27
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Geth p6-sake: JJ++ created pull request #24:
Adds sake help (maybe) closes #22		 09:36
squashable6 🍕 JJ++ opened pull request “Adds sake help (maybe) closes #22”: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/pull/24
🍕 JJ++ requested a review on pull request “Adds sake help (maybe) closes #22”: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/pull/24
jmerelo And that's my last contribution to the Squashathon for this month :-) 09:37
squashable6 🍕 jonathanstowe++ wrote a comment on “Build a URI from parts”: github.com/perl6-community-modules...-427639438 09:40
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Geth doc: 4155d5611e | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod6
Minor rewriting related to #2277
 10:32
doc: 13f5943c19 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6
Expanding and adding examples to circumfix []

Which would close #2360 if everyone is happy with it. It's the best one can do meanwhile the contexts are not better explained, as requested in #1225.
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/5to6-nutshell
Link: doc.perl6.org/language/operators
doc: f14525ade5 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6
Makes code
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jmerelo squashable6: status 10:38
squashable6 jmerelo, 🍕🍕 SQUASHathon is in progress! The end of the event in ≈1 hour. See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Mont...Squash-Day
jmerelo, Log and stats: gist.github.com/5c29463d31cc1b15ea...a00bf3aaae
jmerelo Anyone around? Anyone wants to have a go at it?
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AlexDaniel squashable6: status 11:35
squashable6 AlexDaniel, 🍕🍕 SQUASHathon is in progress! The end of the event is in 24 minutes. See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Mont...Squash-Day
AlexDaniel, Log and stats: gist.github.com/35a9f99acf7b5762aa...145535c8b7
AlexDaniel jmerelo: go at what? :)
jmerelo AlexDaniel: the issues, I guess 11:36
AlexDaniel jmerelo: can you move the test to t/30-help.t ? 11:37
jmerelo AlexDaniel: sure
AlexDaniel jmerelo: this one I mean github.com/perl6/p6-sake/pull/24
squashable6 🍕 JJ++ synchronize pull request “Adds sake help (maybe) closes #22”: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/pull/24 11:40
AlexDaniel jmerelo: what about testing the full output? 11:42
jmerelo AlexDaniel: not sure about where it is 11:44
Let me have a try
AlexDaniel jmerelo: I mean instead of /Registered/ 11:45
just test for ｢Registered tasks: … … … … …｣ fully
because, well, why not :)
squashable6 🍕 JJ++ synchronize pull request “Adds sake help (maybe) closes #22”: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/pull/24 11:46
AlexDaniel .tell kensanata heh, we talked about it yesterday :) perl6.party/post/A-Request-to-Larr...for-Perl-6
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to kensanata.
kensanata . 11:47
yoleaux 11:46Z <AlexDaniel> kensanata: heh, we talked about it yesterday :) perl6.party/post/A-Request-to-Larr...for-Perl-6
squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ wrote a comment on “Adds sake help (maybe) closes #22”: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/pull/24#i...-427647095 11:48
Geth p6-sake/master: 4 commits pushed by (JJ Merelo)++, (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++
squashable6 🍕 AlexDaniel++ merged pull request “Adds sake help (maybe) closes #22”: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/pull/24
🍕 AlexDaniel++ closed issue “sake help”: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/issues/22
🍕 AlexDaniel++ unlabeled issue “sake help” (hacktoberfest): github.com/perl6/p6-sake/issues/22
🍕 AlexDaniel++ wrote a comment on “sake help”: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/issues/22...-427647121
🍕 AlexDaniel++ reopened issue “sake help”: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/issues/22
jmerelo squashable6: status 11:49
squashable6 jmerelo, 🍕🍕 SQUASHathon is in progress! The end of the event is in 10 minutes. See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Mont...Squash-Day
jmerelo, Log and stats: gist.github.com/c77da4997889ae183a...654a0889db
🍕 JJ++ wrote a comment on ““Sake” is overused, come up with something else”: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/issues/19...-427647224 11:50
🍕 AlexDaniel++ wrote a comment on ““Sake” is overused, come up with something else”: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/issues/19...-427647566 11:56
🍕 JJ++ wrote a comment on ““Sake” is overused, come up with something else”: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/issues/19...-427647642 11:57
🍕 AlexDaniel++ wrote a comment on ““Sake” is overused, come up with something else”: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/issues/19...-427647705 11:58
🍕 JJ++ wrote a comment on ““Sake” is overused, come up with something else”: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/issues/19...-427647790 11:59
12:00 Hotkeys left
AlexDaniel jmerelo: that's not the most optimistic way to look at things! :) 12:03
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I still like ake
AlexDaniel I'm fine with ake
jmerelo I mean, it's like looking for a parking space. You can pick whatever one you have handy, or you can go further and further away from your destination looking for an easier, or nicer, one. 12:04
AlexDaniel but they're building a new parking lot over there! All I have to do is just wait a little bit!
:) 12:05
jmerelo If eventually þerl is chosen (which it will, because it's the nicest), we can always change it back to þake. But it's been sake for some period of time, it might change to ake for a limited period...
AlexDaniel: right :-)
AlexDaniel: ... then maybe perl6 gets a new alias, and we want to change it to whatever makes it more similar to that name... Or not, because everybody loves ake by then.
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jmerelo squashable6: status 12:07
squashable6 jmerelo, Next SQUASHathon in 25 days and ≈21 hours (2018-11-03 UTC-12⌁UTC+14). See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Mont...Squash-Day
jmerelo and rien ne va plus. It's finished. 12:08
AlexDaniel yeeeeeey
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I would say it's worked pretty well, right?
AlexDaniel: terrific work with the hooks.
AlexDaniel: and the modules, and everything. Kudos. 12:09
pmurias jmerelo: re þerl are you tring to be sarcastic ;)
AlexDaniel jmerelo: thanks!
jmerelo pmurias: no, why? I love it. It looks a little bit like Perl, uses my favorite Icelandic character, þ 12:10
AlexDaniel squashable6: log 2018-10-06
squashable6 AlexDaniel, Log and stats: gist.github.com/e791b677a4f9a14459...a6d20bc49d
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AlexDaniel jmerelo: yea, it went well. I liked all the interactions 12:22
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jmerelo AlexDaniel: do we have a winner? 12:29
AlexDaniel looking at it right now
sorted by contributor name: gist.github.com/AlexDaniel/bfceb27...7c1ea7d6dd 12:30
you have done 38% of all PRs… 12:31
jmerelo AlexDaniel: accepted a few of them too... 12:32
AlexDaniel: and you are first :-) Congrats 12:36
AlexDaniel jmerelo: what do you mean? I don't thinkh having a name starting with “A” is a win? 12:37
jmerelo Ah, OK. Alphabetical order. Too close to siesta and lunch. I'm not reading correctly...
buggable New CPAN upload: Oddmuse-0.0.2.tar.gz by SCHROEDER modules.perl6.org/dist/Oddmuse6:cpan:SCHROEDER
jmerelo goes AFK
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El_Che Zoffix: your blog post is greatly appreciated 13:03
AlexDaniel yes 13:04
I found it somewhat surprising that it didn't propose some specific alias 13:06
moritz that's a very useful tactic
AlexDaniel but I guess there's a reason for that
El_Che yeah
moritz because it means you aren't conflating calling for an alias with promoting one particular alias
+1 on that
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El_Che is als a more fundamental question to TimToady, than 1 specific name. 13:08
so you can be OK with an alias, but not ok with one specific one
AlexDaniel fwiw I'd be OK with any alias as long as it doesn't have “perl” in it. I'm just too tired 13:11
kensanata After all these years, I'm fortified! 13:12
I started saying Perl 5 instead of Perl, for example...
AlexDaniel kensanata: but do you write perl 6 with a non-breaking space? :P 13:14
CIAvash How would an alias actually work? Everywhere(website, docs, excecutable, ...) mentions Perl 6 but we call it something else?
kensanata AlexDaniel: I'm sure that's not part of the name, and no trademark registry would allow for it, so for all indents and purposes, even if you believed it to be necessary, it'd be a joke. 😛 13:15
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AlexDaniel kensanata: I'm serious 13:16
kensanata: it doesn't need to be part of the trademark, I'm just asking if *you* write it with nbsp 13:17
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kensanata AlexDaniel: Of course not. 13:17
AlexDaniel kensanata: because if you don't, and say you write a blog post
kensanata: then “Perl” and “6” can be broken into separate lines
which makes it look rather weird 13:18
kensanata: so for the documentation and everything, we try to use nbsp
kensanata: and we recommend others to do the same :)
kensanata AlexDaniel: But doesn't that happen to all sorts of names? Even words are split accross lines. The question of typography is separate from the name.
So having a convention saying please use a non-breaking space between A and B is fine, but the *name* still consists of A and B. 13:19
AlexDaniel sure, yes
but I liked your “Of course not.” answer :) 13:20
kensanata framapic.org/vzeEWQ3zMu8M/q6g4tmptm084.png
I wanted to fix it, but now I'm going to leave it, as a statement. 13:21
AlexDaniel kensanata: do you have compose key configured? 13:22
kensanata Of course! Caps lock it is.
AlexDaniel I think `compose space space` should give a non-breaking space on most systems
kensanata Yes, that's true. 13:23
AlexDaniel .tell jmerelo I'll take a little break and then will write a page for results
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to jmerelo.
El_Che In case TimToady is reading: please veto names with spaces in it, and everything needing a compose key :)
kensanata Haha 13:24
AlexDaniel El_Che: but 🦋!
kensanata Better limit ourselves to ASCII.
AlexDaniel :)
moritz what about 駱駝道? </troll>
kensanata It's name is 🦋 but we call it "butterfly". 🦋 is the language, "butterfly" is the name of the language, because we don't want to use "Perl 6" since it's associated with "Perl" which other people might not like. Also, "Perl 6" is the name for a Perl programming language and "Perl 5" is also a name for a Perl programming language, but a different one. It's more like a set, not sequence… 13:26
El_Che Ƭ̵̬̊ the artist formely known as prince-vibe
kensanata El_Che: I'll admit it. This is cool. 13:27
CIAvash Has anybody thought about what happens after an alias is chosen? Are there going to be any changes to the website and docs? 13:29
lizmat I think everybody knows my stance in this 13:30
I would also like to have people think about what this would mean for conferences and stands at conferences 13:31
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Zoffix lizmat: I don't remember what your stance on it is. All I recall is you saying it won't happen 13:34
yoleaux 10:13Z <brrt> Zoffix: Summation -> Summary, Numerious -> Numerous
Zoffix lizmat: I don't see much happening with conferences, since it's not a rename. 13:35
timotimo i'm 100% on board with getting a name that gives us the same acronym as brainfuck (re: butterfly)
El_Che I think lizmat has a good point, Zoffix. But we'll cross that bridge if we get there
CIAvash Because at the very least it can add a new layer of confusion, people hear name X and then see Perl 6 and wonder what that is about
Zoffix CIAvash: I thought yes. We ban all blanket name changes and let people use whatever name they prefer when writing content. This will make one of the names superior to the other, based on the amount of use. 13:36
moritz so, I visited a talk by Damian Conway, and the organizers told him not to use the name Perl until the end, because people might walk away 13:38
dunno if that was warranted, but he did
El_Che moritz: whut?
Zoffix El_Che: someone on Facebook brought that up as well. They posted a bunch of pictures of "PerlConf" and "The Perl Conference" and said the alias would affect it. What I don't understand is why a "Perl" (as opposed to "Perl 6") conference is a perfect fit. I can't know whether there will be any Perl 6 talks at all unless I look at the program. Same would be with the alias name.
moritz and called it "Albus", after a certain wizard, and because the language was pretty magical
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moritz and I kinda liked it 13:38
short, has a positive annotation, and I'm not aware of other software with that name 13:39
El_Che Zoffix: I don't think it will be a problem, but it will be something to take into account, in lizmat's conf role
moritz El_Che: this talk was organized by Frankfurt.pm, but in collaboration with a pretty general web development conference, and hosted by a university
Zoffix +1 on Albus, though I'd settle for any non-offensive, non-joke name that doesn't have whitespace or numbers in it :) 13:40
moritz it's the first proposed alias for Perl 6 that I actually liked
El_Che I am very fond of the rakudo name, but like zoffix I am in the everything-non-silly-is-better camp 13:41
CIAvash Zoffix: what do you mean by "We ban all blanket name changes"? 13:43
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Zoffix CIAvash: like, no commits that just go in and change every instance of "Perl 6" to "Albus". 13:45
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Zoffix And I guess contested spaces (e.g. title of homepage) would just be the same as how bilingual countries do signs and stuf: "The Perl 6/Albus Programming Language" 13:46
pmurias Zoffix: re why having joint Perl 5&6 conferences makes sense, the vast majority of Perl 5 people at conferences like Perl 6 and a lot of people are part of both communities 13:48
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Zoffix pmurias: that wasn't my question tho. 13:50
CIAvash Zoffix: if people call it whatever they want, wouldn't that make it hard to find the content? I'm a bit confused, if the amount of the usage of a name is important, where does TimToady come in? 13:51
Zoffix pmurias: the question was: "Why is 'The Perl Conference' a perfect fit for a language named 'Perl 6'?" And that question was made in response to a claim that creating an alias would make it hard for people to find Alias conferences. Yet, they don't seem to have trouble finding them, without the language name being featured in the conferences right now 13:52
El_Che to be blunt, the perl5+6 communities are to small to have separated conferences 13:53
Zoffix CIAvash: by "whatever they want" I meant either "Perl 6" or $Alias. TimToady comes in to bless some particular alias so instead of using Camelia, Rakudo, Albus, the folks who don't want to use Perl 6 name can use a single thing 13:54
El_Che for people that use both, it's an advantage :)
pmurias Zoffix: 'The Perl Conference' name itself doesn't tell you if it's a Perl 5 or Perl 6 or both conference
Zoffix pmurias: yes, that's my point
CIAvash: as for finding content, yes it's not ideal, but IMO overall still better than doing nothing, especially since currently DuckDuckGo gives you Perl 5 content when you search for "perl6 argv" for example, so it's not like search is perfect at the moment. 13:55
CIAvash: and a pro: using alias in search will give you recent content instead of all those deeply outdated old Perl 6 articles :) 13:56
And I'll take search problems over The Damian being told not to mention the name of the language any day :) 13:59
Zoffix returns to being sick &
13:59 Zoffix left
pmurias Zoffix: get well soon 13:59
Zoffix: I understand why you want to do have an alias, but I think the choice of the alias is important, as a bad one doesn't seem like a win 14:01
moritz I don't think anybody disagrees with that 14:02
but it might help to decouple the discussion "do we want an alias name, assuming a good one can be found?" from the discussion "what should the alias name be?" 14:03
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kensanata I'll just say that my interest in Perl 6 was rekindled after going to a Perl Workshop thinking it was going to be all about Perl 5... 14:07
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moritz one of the reasons we don't want to get rid of the "Perl 6" name 14:10
pmurias moritz: most of the proposed alias name are at best neutral (they don't have any connotations) 14:13
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pmurias hmm, what should I use to replace the misaligned Sample selector from dartpad (dartpad.dartlang.org/) on 6pad? 14:31
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pmurias or does it the select look horrible only to me? 14:37
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Geth doc: thebooort++ created pull request #2365:
Improve the math page with ODE's integrators #2353		 15:30
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Geth doc/master: 10 commits pushed by thebooort++, (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++
review: github.com/perl6/doc/compare/f1452...dd1d89613a		 15:59
doc: 603ff5ca43 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/math.pod6
Fixes formatting errors
 16:07
doc: 90ce9a391d | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/math.pod6
Some fixes to pass tests
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/math
jmerelo Well... 16:15
yoleaux 13:23Z <AlexDaniel> jmerelo: I'll take a little break and then will write a page for results
jmerelo .tell AlexDaniel thanks!
yoleaux jmerelo: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
shmup exporting a class, or rather making a class available to other modules.. i'm not grokin it yet 16:17
SmokeMachine jmerelo: has you seen that Red converts ‘-‘ on model’s name to ‘_’ on table’s name? 16:18
shmup nvm, i solved it 16:19
jmerelo SmokeMachine: but only if you set the name, right?
SmokeMachine: I remember I did something like model Commit-whatever (because commit was reserved) and it bailed out.
SmokeMachine Shouldn’t... 16:20
jmerelo: github.com/FCO/Red/blob/master/lib...el.pm6#L34 16:24
jmerelo SmokeMachine: that should do it, right... 16:25
Let me check anyway
SmokeMachine And I’m sorry, I’m not with my computer yet... 16:26
jmerelo SmokeMachine: no problem 16:27
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jdv79_ i dont get the name thing. its still a perl. as soon as someone see sigils theyll know. why try to obfu it... 16:59
timotimo could also be basic 17:00
or php
jdv79_ seems futile. everything has perl in it. modules.perl6, the irc chan names, the subreddit, etc... 17:02
like i said. i dont get it;)
AlexDaniel jdv79_: it depends, some people indeed see no problem with it. However, have you tried talking to somebody about perl 6? 17:09
was there any confusion?
jdv79_ no 17:10
its also in the code, the lang braid, tge gh artifacts, etc.
AlexDaniel there was no confusion or you don't talk about perl 6?
jdv79_ i talk of perl6 all the time. no confusion. 17:11
AlexDaniel so let me get this straight
jdv79_ cause at the outset i say perl as you know it is p5. im talking about p6.
any confusion is handled up front 17:12
AlexDaniel shrugs 17:14
that doesn't work for me
because in the end I'm the “perl guy” and stuff like that
lizmat why can't you be the "rakudo" guy ? 17:15
jdv79_ how would you explain to someone the compiler calks this lang in the braid Perl6 but you call it foobar?
AlexDaniel yes I'll take any alias once it is there
lizmat AlexDaniel: why couldn't you be the "rakudo" guy *now* ? 17:16
AlexDaniel because rakudo is a compiler, not the language
lizmat so? 17:17
AlexDaniel well, you see, I can play all kinds of games in the attempt to work around the confusion 17:18
but clarity is one of my goals when I speak
if I'm talking about the language, I want to call the language by its name
substituting it with the name of the compiler… is just weird 17:19
lizmat is it? I know
AlexDaniel so the person will go search for language rakudo and there's no language rakudo, it's perl 6
ah-ha, perl! OK now it's clear. Hehe
lizmat plenty of people in the car business that are "ford" or "citroën" or "peugeot" or "fiat" people
they're all car mechanics 17:20
but they identify with the brand they know best
and I do think you can apply such an analogy to Perl 6 / Rakudo / Fanlang / Niecza 17:21
AlexDaniel ehhh… I don't know, maybe you're right
lizmat "rakudo" 4 / 5 hits mention Perl 6 for me on google 17:22
actually 5/5
at DDG its 4/5
AlexDaniel well if on November 1st I'm told that my favorite programming language is rakudo, I'm fine with that. I'll use it 17:23
lizmat I'm telling you would be fine to use that now already :-)
Google / DDG will back you up that you're not fantasising 17:24
AlexDaniel I don't like muddying the distinction between the language and the compiler, not until Nov 1st at least…
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nige moritz - I've added 'albus' to the list of collected sub-brands - nigelhamilton.com/perl-branding-proposal.html 17:26
are you OK with that?
timotimo well, it wasn't his, right? 17:34
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El_Che I get AlexDaniel's point about talking with other people. I have exactly the same experience. 17:36
(About the rakudo name, I love it and I don't care about the lang/compiler collision if it means we get a good name) 17:37
I am introducing perl6 in production in small CI/containers related tasks, but I refer the code as Rakudo and not Perl 6. The devops code is mostly Go, and the Perl 5 code some teams use is very old school Perl 5. 17:39
ugexe I'm a software engineer. I've work as one for many years. I've work with many other software engineers. I've always been the Perl6 guy at the last 4 places I've worked ( before 6.c ). There has never in my professional career been any confusion between Perl and Perl6 with any of my colleagues. This has involved me teaching colleagues, invitings others such as jnthn to talk with colleagues, raising money from
yoleaux 3 Dec 2017 07:47Z <araraloren> ugexe: I setup a new linux(fedora 25), after install rakudo-pkg. It failed when I run `install-zef-as-user.p6` ^^
3 Dec 2017 07:47Z <araraloren> ugexe: sorry, fedora 26
ugexe colleagues to go towards Perl6 advancements ( Sync sockets, atomic operations, Cro OpenAPI tooling ).
yoleaux 4 Jan 2018 16:17Z <tyil> ugexe: Do you want me to close the ticket I created, as its a dupe of #157
20 Jul 2018 16:10Z <stmuk> ugexe: I don't seem to be able to install zef on windows
ugexe The Perl name has *never* been a deteriment to any of these accomplishments, and if anything contributed towards these things happening at all. I think the seconds long snippet of larry mentioning the possiblity of an alias have been overblown. Why aren't alias backers out there testing their theory and emulating the Damian talk and making up a name and mentioning it at the end? But I'm not a marketer, i'm a
software engineer, so maybe it doesn't matter what I think. Maybe making the language easier for marketers to market is worth looking like amateur hour.
timotimo ugexe: sorry for being so cold on your speed improvements pullrequest for JSON::Fast; i'm hoping to give it another look-over soon, though i'm still not quite sure if i want parallelization to take place 17:41
El_Che .tell araraloren ping me about the rakudo-pkg problem so we can have a look. Feel free to raise an issue in github
yoleaux El_Che: I'll pass your message to araraloren.
ugexe timotimo: i have no speed improvement PR. it was something about not turning Version.new(...) into (0,0) or something 17:42
the PR itself is probably no good, but the problem behind it is probably worth thinking on
El_Che ugexe: it's interesting to see how your experience differs 17:43
shmup am i severely misundstanding looping over the elements of an array: ix.io/1oB4/perl6
god i hate the guy saying that instagram killed photography 17:46
mistell :)
AlexDaniel shmup: it probably needs to be @$things or something like that
tobs m: my $array = [1..4]; for $array -> $elt { say $elt } 17:47
camelia [1 2 3 4]
tobs m: my @array = [1..4]; for @array -> $elt { say $elt }
camelia 1
2
3
4
AlexDaniel ↑ that
tobs m: my $array = [1..4]; for @$array -> $elt { say $elt } # shmup: or what AlexDaniel said
camelia 1
2
3
4
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tobs shmup: a scalar $array is a single thing, but it can often be interpreted as a single-element list, which is what happens in the first snippet under `for`. 17:48
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lizmat .tell Zoffix an elaboration about my stance: www.reddit.com/r/perl6/comments/9m...e/e7cdgih/ 17:50
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
El_Che lizmat: oh, first point is how civil wars start :)
lizmat it is how it is 17:51
shmup ah hah AlexDaniel and tobs 17:52
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shmup what ya think about ix.io/1oB6 18:01
what ya think about ix.io/1oB6/perl6
my brain can do this prob, let me Think 18:02
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AlexDaniel timotimo: ↑ maybe you can answer, because I'm always confused by this also :) 18:08
shmup: but I think it can be something like @(get-json('/home/jared/src/community/events.json')<docs><docs>) in case of @b 18:10
shmup yeah ok I have it now, hm, I'll have to figure out my misunderstanding more 18:12
but that does now map over the result correctly, thanks AlexDaniel
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davidp anybody using ncurses ?? 18:17
tobs davidp: not yet, but I'd like to soon, fwiw. 18:21
davidp there is a module, iam new to perl 6, how to know if it is safe for use please ? 18:22
tobs I have to say Curses::UI:from<Perl5> looks more convenient than what is in the p6 ecosystem. I haven't tried it out yet, though.
CIAvash shmup: It means the json value is an item so you need to decontainerize it. In this case you can also use the list method on it. docs.perl6.org/routine/%3C%3E 18:23
tobs davidp: hmm, "safe to use", I don't know. If you're not worried that it deletes all your files when you touch it or something like that, the modules has an example directory. 18:24
You can check that out, run some of the examples and see if it fits.
davidp thanks i know that lib 18:25
shmup love it, cool/thanks CIAvash
timotimo yeah, JSON::Fast is a bit too container-happy 18:32
i want to put out a new version in the future that breaks compatibility by not putting *everything* in containers
shmup lol
mostly I am just brand spanking new to perl6, and not that it's too important at all, only used perl5 for irssi related things
i have a tight feedback loop but i'm relying on it too much instead of just reading more/being patient 18:33
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lizmat weekly: twitter.com/nxadm/status/1049003572694831105 18:55
notable6 lizmat, Noted!
rindolf hi all 19:03
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lizmat weekly: pessim50.ucoz.ru/index/perl6_jazyk_...dstvo/0-26 19:35
notable6 lizmat, Noted!
lizmat AlexDaniel Zoffix is that ^^ newsworthy or not? 19:36
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moritz looks like an 80 page perl 6 tutorial to me 19:49
lizmat yeah, that as well to me... except apart from the Perl 6 expressions, I don't get it :-) 19:51
jnthn Yes, looks like a Perl 6 introduction tutorial :) 19:54
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AlexDaniel lizmat: where did you find that? I can't figure out who is the author 19:59
lizmat twitter.com/VictorBorisov3/status/...0683920387
CIAvash m: dd Hash[Int].new('a', 'b') 20:00
camelia Hash[Int] element = (my Int % = :a("b"))
CIAvash What does that mean?
AlexDaniel lizmat: yes definitely notable 20:01
lizmat hmmm
CIAvash: that looks like a bug
:a<b> should not be allowed
AlexDaniel lizmat: it's a full-blown introduction to perl 6, written in proper Russian. I wonder what their inspiration was (were they looking at docs.perl6.org or something else?), but so far it looks original… which makes me wonder why didn't they publish it as a book or something like that 20:02
lizmat m: my Int %h = "a", "b" # it should give this
camelia Type check failed in assignment to %h; expected Int but got Str ("b")
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
lizmat likes Perl 6 stuff coming from unexpected corners of the world! 20:03
CIAvash Yeah, I was expecting that too
lizmat CIAvash: could you please create an issue for that ?
AlexDaniel I'd love to provide feedback for that, though 20:05
for example they recommend .pl extension, which we nowadays avoid
CIAvash There are other issues I haven't created yet as well! Maybe tomorrow
AlexDaniel also nowhere in the file it talks about `spurt` or `slurp` and instead recommends `open` 20:06
it's amazing, really. 82 pages of effort and no name of the author in the document 20:09
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Zoffix lizmat: I find it ironic that the first sentence of that tutorial talks about the bad name :) 20:10
yoleaux 17:50Z <lizmat> Zoffix: an elaboration about my stance: www.reddit.com/r/perl6/comments/9m...e/e7cdgih/
AlexDaniel hehe yeah
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Zoffix lizmat: ah, ok, now I remember. Thanks 20:11
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AlexDaniel lizmat: oh ok, that tweet is from the author of that website 20:13
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mniip AlexDaniel, that document looks like something outta msword 20:31
AlexDaniel mniip: it was done in libreoffice, .odt file is also provided 20:32
mniip I see. Still questionable choice for a 80 page book 20:33
"неизменяемость" is written with no space :/ 20:35
lmao he spelled haskell "Hascell" 20:39
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Zoffix Who cares? Man, we find the first tutorial who wasn't made by the regulars in this channel and you immediatelly proceed to rip it a new asshole because the author missed a space in "неизменяемость" (which I'm pretty sure is correct actually)? 20:40
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Zoffix It seems the default mode people operate in these days is to shit on anything they can. 20:41
AlexDaniel Zoffix: fwiw it's other way around, it's written with space in the book (sometimes)
but yeah I couldn't care less about formatting and grammar
the guide is very clear and nice 20:42
timotimo mniip doesn't seem like a regular to me?
have i seen you before? 20:43
mniip Zoffix, I think you're overexaggerating the intenstity of me "shittin on anything I can"
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AlexDaniel timotimo: their point is that the book was written but somebody else 20:43
timotimo oh, i got that 20:44
AlexDaniel or guide, whatever you call that
mniip I did not say it's garbage, just pointed out some obvious issues with it
AlexDaniel btw, can we link it from somewhere?
timotimo i just meant it doesn't seem to be an example of "what #perl6 people usually do"
AlexDaniel like maybe perl6.org/resources/ ?
“Perl 6 from Other Languages”… Haskell, Python, Ruby, Russian :) 20:45
mniip timotimo, I've been idling around for a while, if that counts 20:49
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timotimo to me "lmao he spelled …" sounded a little mean towards the author; i would have probably said something like "lmao, 'hascell' is a fun way to spell haskell" instead 20:50
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mniip understandable 20:52
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mniip really did not intend to hurt anyone's feelings, sorry if I did 20:53
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timotimo though zof also overreacted i feel like 20:53
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AlexDaniel Zoffix: by the way, I remember there was someone asking for a review of their perl 6 tutorial in Russian, or something like that. Was it the same author? 20:55
mniip . o O ( I'm no regular, I'm literally context-free ) 20:56
timotimo oh, good one 20:58
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uzl Hello, #perl6! 21:30
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uzl I'm reading docs.perl6.org/type/Signature and there are multiple sentences where one finds 'default default'. The sentences seem to make sense with only one 'default' so I'm wondering if it's a just a typo or some meaning behind it. 21:32
timotimo default default actually makes sense in signatures 21:34
if you have $foo = 5, then 5 is the default for $foo, but if you just use $foo? you'll get the default default instead
though it'd surely be helpful - especially for non-native speakers - to point it out a little more clearly? 21:35
the first occurence of "default default" seems to explain what that means, without explaining explicitly that a "default default" is A Thing™ 21:36
uzl yeah, it makes after you explained but at first sight it's like 'What?'.
mniip "implicit default" perhaps 21:39
timotimo i think that'd be an improvement
Geth doc/master: 4 commits pushed by Coke++ 21:43
geekosaur someone might make the same change to the haskell language report, for that matter 21:45
Geth doc: uzluisf++ created pull request #2366:
Rephase sentence and fix minor typo		 21:47
mniip geekosaur, are you talking about default default or hascell? 21:48
geekosaur "default default" (look at the report's definition of the "default" declaration)
mniip I don't see a "default default" in there 21:50
only "If no default declaration is given in a module then it assumed to be: ..."
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azawawi hi 22:43
👋 22:44
As promised earlier github.com/azawawi/ide-perl6 (atom lang client + perl6 lang server) ... syntax checking is online :) 22:45
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uzl .tell AlexDaniel Not directly related with a Russian tutorial but I've been working in a Spanish translation of 23:12
yoleaux uzl: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
uzl .tell AlexDaniel 'Think Perl 6' and a while back I asked for a (community?) review of the translation. Lately
yoleaux uzl: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
uzl .tell AlexDaniel I've been working with the index terms which I didn't take of while translating the main content. 23:13
yoleaux uzl: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
AlexDaniel .
yoleaux 23:13Z <uzl> AlexDaniel: I've been working with the index terms which I didn't take of while translating the main content.
AlexDaniel I'm here! :)
uzl: Spanish translation! Have you talked to jmerelo?
uzl Oh, didn't notice it! ;)
AlexDaniel: I don't think so. Well, at least not specifically about a review. 23:17
AlexDaniel .tell jmerelo by any chance are you interested in this? colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log...10-07#l884 23:18
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to jmerelo.
AlexDaniel uzl: is it public, by the way? Your translation I mean 23:19
timotimo jnthn: i'm not sure i understand "there's still lots more to be had. which is a good job, since ..."; like, the "a good job" part?
uzl AlexDaniel: uzluisf.gitlab.io/piensaperl6/ <- It has a link to the gitlab repo. 23:20
AlexDaniel awesome, in LaTeX! jmerelo is the right person :) 23:22
as long as they have time of course
uzl That's what I realized. JJ might not have the spare time to do so. 23:23
But I guess there's not rush. 23:24
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uzl Anyway...until later. 23:25
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timotimo .tell jnthn i'm not sure i understand "there's still lots more to be had. which is a good job, since ..."; like, the "a good job" part? 23:29
yoleaux timotimo: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
k-man morning 23:30
timotimo greetings k-man
k-man p14 of learning perl6 says i can get info on perl6 language variables by doing "p6doc language/variables"
but its not found oh my system
ooh 23:31
maybe because i didn't source my .bashrc in that term
nope, that's not it
hi timotimo
hmmm... p6doc should have a document about p6doc imho 23:34
p6doc on its own seems to work 23:35
timotimo you may not yet have p6doc installed 23:36
k-man i do have it, it works
timotimo oh!
k-man 'p6doc variables' seems to find a document
i think its a typo or outdated info in the book 23:37
timotimo learing perl6 is really new, though
k-man yeah
i know 23:38
timotimo i haven't used the p6doc tool in a long long time
all the perl6 doc stuff is on the doc.perl6.org site, too, if that helps :\
k-man timotimo, yeah, i found it 23:41
just wanted to be sure it wasn't me doing it wrong, and more likely an error in the book
i sent an errata note
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[Coke] k-man++ 23:47
k-man thanks [Coke]! 23:48
i found 2 errata and I'm only up to p14 :( 23:49
should have done this before it was printed
ugexe re perl 5&6 having conferences/summits split up -- how many conferences do you attend? because i really hope that such an argument is coming from attendees. or donating for p6 developers to go to PTS 23:56
or do we just expect this shit to figure itself out? 23:58

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