»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋 Set by Zoffix on 25 July 2018. |
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Kaiepi | i'm writing a slang and want to call a lexical routine used in Perl6::Actions. how can i do that, if it's possible? | 00:00 | |
i tried poking around in OUTER, CALLER, etc. from the method of the role that gets mixed in but i can't find it | 00:02 | ||
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Geth | whateverable: 263a682de4 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | lib/Whateverable/Bits.pm6 Plus sign can't be part of the nickname I don't know what I was thinking. |
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AlexDaniel | m: say 42 | 00:11 | |
camelia | 42 | ||
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aearnus[m] | got around to submitting an issue for zef based on what I was talking about the other day | 01:25 | |
github.com/ugexe/zef/issues/310 | |||
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aearnus[m] | currently trying to nuke my entire perl6 install and test from scratch to see if it'll work | 02:03 | |
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Geth | whateverable: 91a097da66 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | lib/Whateverable/Userlist.pm6 Pass along userlist events Otherwise nothing else will be able to catch them. Heartbeat doesn't work without this. |
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guifa returns from the depths of the unknown | 03:55 | ||
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aearnus[m] | it's on the tip of my tongue, but is there a more elegant way to write this? github.com/Aearnus/crystallarium/b...p6#L17-L21 | 04:22 | |
Elronnd | @!tokens.push(LoginToken.new).tail | 04:29 | |
aearnus[m] | m: (given 5 { }).say | 04:33 | |
camelia | Nil | ||
aearnus[m] | Elronnd: clever! that went right over my head somehow | ||
thanks | |||
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masak | it might be just my personal taste, but taking .tail there while you yourself constructed the object feels... excessive | 06:35 | |
aearnus[m] | it looks so much nicer than the 3 lines of construction -> pushing -> returning tho | 06:36 | |
masak | how about `@!tokens.push(LEAVE return LoginToken.new);`? *grin* | ||
m: my @a; sub foo { @a.push(LEAVE return 42) }; say foo(); say @a.perl | 06:37 | ||
camelia | Attempt to return outside of any Routine in sub foo at <tmp> line 1 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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masak | aww | ||
...is that a bug? I thought LEAVE executed dynamically inside the scope of the routine, before unwinding? | 06:38 | ||
masak tries to confirm this with S04 | |||
aearnus[m] | in theory that's really slick | 06:40 | |
masak | I couldn't find anything substantiating that. closest thing I read was "`LEAVE` can see its lexical variables", but it seems it's silent on when exactly `LEAVE` fires | ||
masak consults the spectests | 06:41 | ||
hm, the spectests are silent on this as well | 06:43 | ||
jnthn: what do you think -- do you have any intuition on when `LEAVE` runs -- before or after leaving the dynamic scope of a routine ("returning")? specifically, does it make sense to `return` from a `LEAVE`? (the way one can `return` from a `CATCH`) | 06:44 | ||
hm, could be there's a catch-22 there. don't want the `return` to trigger a new `LEAVE` process. clearly we're already LEAVEing at that point | 06:45 | ||
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aearnus[m] | Solution: make `LoginToken.new` throw & and put the return in a `CATCH` phaser instead :^) | 06:49 | |
hehe, that's too much dark magic | |||
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masak | haha | 06:59 | |
I like the way you think, though | |||
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Geth | doc: 6be75b81ef | (JJ Merelo)++ | 2 files Some clarification for integer bitwise XOR operators and others Works towards #2939. The main problem is that Boolean bitwise operators are not indexed, so they are hard to find. Coming up next. |
07:28 | |
doc: 95d5707238 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6 Adds the Boolean bitwise XOR operator Which was not documented. That closes #2939 |
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synopsebot | Link: doc.perl6.org/language/operators | ||
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chloekek | p6: my $x = 0 but True; say +$x; say ?$x; | 09:24 | |
camelia | 0 True |
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chloekek | No more need for '0 but true' :P | 09:25 | |
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jnthn | masak: LEAVE runs when we're already certainly leaving the routine; while it's sufficiently in dynamic scope that we can see any my $*foo declared in there, we're already outsie of the `return` control exception handler | 09:32 | |
masak: Basically it's done as part of the stack unwind, so we've already done the VM-level return instruction by the point it's triggered | |||
So you can't sensibly initiate another round of returning | |||
m: sub foo() { LEAVE .say; return 42 }; foo() | 09:33 | ||
camelia | (Any) | ||
jnthn | m: sub foo() { KEEP .say; return 42 }; foo() | ||
camelia | (Any) | ||
jnthn | m: sub foo() { LEAVE { .say }; return 42 }; foo() | ||
camelia | (Any) | ||
jnthn | Oh, right...I'm thinking of POST :) | ||
But POST runs at that point too but it gets teh return value | 09:34 | ||
m: sub foo() { POST { .say }; return 42 }; foo() | |||
camelia | 42 | ||
jnthn | Like that | ||
So we need to have already been returning for that also | |||
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Kaiepi | my networking grant's off to a bit of a slow start since i chose to start with bug fixes mainly, but at some point this week probably i'll be getting started on some of the more exciting changes | 10:26 | |
synchronous udp/unix/raw socket support soon(tm) | |||
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moritz | \o/ | 10:43 | |
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AlexDaniel | Kaiepi++ :) | 11:31 | |
El_Che | (Damn, I like the Rakudo name. Can we call the language Rakudo and the compiler raku?) | 11:44 | |
El_Che ducks | |||
moritz | let's name the compiler doraku and the language rakudo -- what could possibly go wrong? :-) | 11:49 | |
El_Che | moritz: <insert Fry's gif "I don't know if serious or actually a great idea" here> | 11:52 | |
moritz | FTR, that was not serious | 11:53 | |
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El_Che | I know :) | 11:53 | |
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Geth | problem-solving/path-to-raku: 04108b11a0 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md Remove suggestion of .code, go for .raku. |
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problem-solving/path-to-raku: 9301d09db5 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md Remove suggestion for new backcronym for NQP |
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scimon | Trying to make points about Perl6 as a language and one of the criteria is "Hireability" I'm trying to make the point that is we advertise jobs with Perl6 as a valid language we'll basically be the only company in London doing so. | 13:38 | |
Which to my mind is a good thing. | |||
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timotimo | i personally am not going to relocate to not-so-great britain :) | 13:39 | |
scimon | Point. | 13:41 | |
tadzik | well, if you're looking for remotes... :) | ||
scimon | (I will hopefully be relocating to soon to be independent Scotland) | ||
El_Che | scimon: if your ambition is to fill a small team, sure | ||
tadzik | I can imagine that attracting some adventurous Perl 5 developers | 13:42 | |
El_Che | scimon: in a wider scope Perl[56] is not a magnet for the younger generation | ||
scimon | Well that's the thing. We do seem to be getting interest in Perl6 from all over. | 13:43 | |
Heck I find getting Perl5 devs to try it quite hard to do. | |||
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El_Che | scimon: it would trigger my interest, certainly. But a alarm would be triggered about the marketability of Perl 6 in my resume | 13:44 | |
lizmat | scimon: in my opinion, the only Perl 5 devs that want to try out Perl 6 are no longer programming Perl 5 for a living | 13:52 | |
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El_Che | scimon: if you convert Perl 5 programmers to 6, Booking will send hitmen to get you | 13:55 | |
it's difficult enough to find Perl 5 people as it is :) | 13:56 | ||
lizmat | El_Che: please don't try to spread any funny FUD | ||
El_Che | lizmat: do you thing people would really believe the hitmen story? | 13:57 | |
lizmat | people believe a lot of things about Booking | ||
El_Che | wow | ||
we live in a funny time | 13:58 | ||
lizmat | yes, indeed we do | ||
El_Che | for the record, the hitmen story is fake news, they were already fully booked for the Epstein case | ||
lizmat | :-) | 14:00 | |
El_Che | (however, finding perl 5 people is not simple) | 14:04 | |
scimon does hiring, so maybe he has a different experience (it's been a while for me) | 14:05 | ||
lizmat | finding people *wanting to do Perl 5* is hard | ||
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robertle | I wonder whether it makes sense to focus on the product during the hiringm not the tech stack, and look for people that are comfortable with multiple languages | 14:06 | |
it's kinda weird to look for a Java developer as well. I mean I don't care about the java part and neither should the applicant, we should both care about the product we want to build and use whatever to achieve it. | 14:07 | ||
El_Che | robertle: ideally, yes. In practice, when enough jobs are available, people look specifically for a certain tech or stack | ||
robertle | "whatever" could be java in one environment, or fortran in another | ||
El_Che | lots of people I know are "Java Spring(boot)" people | ||
and won't look at nothing else | |||
people doing dynamic languages seem more flexible | 14:08 | ||
robertle | yeah I know, just saying that sometimes companies make matters worse by explicitely stating a tech stack as a role description | ||
El_Che | robertle: it's often out of despair. Someone added a "go scripting" to a description on a job we had open :) | 14:09 | |
some HR people are technical enough to be dangerous :) | |||
timotimo | "visual perl6"? :) | ||
robertle | just to make it sound appealing? we have similar things here, where pretty random buzzwords get added to job ads to make them more likely to be googled :) | ||
El_Che | timotimo++ | 14:10 | |
timotimo | "no dogs" | ||
"60 years experience in perl6 a must" | |||
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Geth | ¦ problem-solving: AlexDaniel assigned to jnthn Issue .perl should be replaced with a pluggable system github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/91 | 14:32 | |
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Guest93 | Hi! So, i've been looking into learning more about grammars, made this simple calculator as an exercise pastebin.com/VTVRMteJ but found the case in which my implementation performs very poorly (the last line in the paste). My understanding is that it tries to match every subgrammar prior to getting to the trivial case, and the time spent in | 15:45 | |
creases exponentially. Is there a common way to address this? Do i simply avoid this recursive style of definitions? | |||
moritz | Guest93: it generally helps to factor out alternations on the left | 15:46 | |
rule term { <factor> [ $<op>=['+' | '-'] <expression> ]? } | 15:47 | ||
Guest93 | I see | 15:48 | |
moritz | erm, mixed up the symbols, but the structure should be clear | ||
Guest93 | Yes, pretty clear, i'll try that, thanks! | 15:49 | |
moritz | good luck! :D | ||
jnthn | When I do such things I typically just parse like <term> [<infix> <term>]* and then do a precedence sort in the actions | ||
Guest93 | Interesting, i'll try that too after, seems a bit more complex, but would be helpful to understand these better :D Thanks! | 15:52 | |
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woolfy | Guest93 : This book might be of interest to you too... www.apress.com/gp/book/9781484232279 | 15:58 | |
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Geth | whateverable: c46a08fc66 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | xbin/Tellable.p6 Do not pass messages if the user reacts immediately Implements #353, but no tests are added. |
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Guest93 | moritz instantaneous now! woolfy, i'll check it out, thanks again, everyone :) | 16:15 | |
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scimon | lizmat: The Perl5 hiring thing is part of the problem we have | 16:30 | |
(Right running away) | |||
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Doc_Holliwood | Can somebody explain this whenever Promise.Kept idiom to me? ( pastebin.com/QNs1SULU ) | 16:51 | |
I don't understand why this asynchronizes the supply | |||
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AlexDaniel | Doc_Holliwood: where did you find that? I don't think it does anything useful… | 16:54 | |
Doc_Holliwood | It works as intended. I just don't understand why it does that. The asynchronize sub was written by jnthn over on stackoverflow | 16:56 | |
stackoverflow.com/questions/574863...-at-a-time | |||
AlexDaniel | ahhh | 16:57 | |
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AlexDaniel | Doc_Holliwood: I don't get it too :) | 17:11 | |
Doc_Holliwood | Thank you, that helps :-D | 17:13 | |
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cpan-p6 | New module released to CPAN! Red (0.0.4) by 03FCO | 17:58 | |
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Kaiepi | i tried reading the code for Promise to see if i could work out why Promise.kept is there and... yeah i don't get it either | 18:05 | |
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timotimo | Promise.kept(1) creates a promise that is already kept with the value 1 | 18:06 | |
tellable6 | 2019-08-19T16:18:08Z #moarvm <AlexDaniel> timotimo it should work now | ||
timotimo | Promise.kept creates one that's kept with the value True | ||
lizmat | Kaiepi: if your API requires you to return a Promise, but you do not have anything to wait for, Promise.kept allows you to return one without having to wait | 18:07 | |
AlexDaniel | timotimo: so it doesn't work! | ||
timotimo | so all it does is immediately launch the whenever when the supply block's setup is finished | ||
AlexDaniel: whoops | |||
Kaiepi | yeah, i got that part but why isn't it redundant to have there? | 18:10 | |
timotimo | because here you want to make it be installed after initial setup has finished | 18:11 | |
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Doc_Holliwood | timotimo: yes, but what in that statement is saying "async from here on?" | 18:17 | |
the output of that snippet is 221222 you see, the two supplies run in parallel | 18:18 | ||
but why? | |||
timotimo | i believe it's because the setup code runs synchronously, and subscribing to the $supply1 and $supply2 will run the setup code of these synchronously, too, and they have await in them | 18:26 | |
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timotimo | but if you whenever Promise.kept, it'll finish the outermost setup code first, and then the "await" can get execution to go back to other tasks | 18:27 | |
that could be wrong | |||
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timotimo | BBL | 18:28 | |
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Geth | whateverable: 72b3976633 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | xbin/Tellable.p6 Sleep a little bit between messages Otherwise they are sometimes delivered out of order. |
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Geth | doc/master: 4 commits pushed by Coke++ | 19:21 | |
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[Coke] waves. | 19:22 | ||
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robertle | what's a good, modern example of a perl module with native code inside? | 19:56 | |
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Doc_Holliwood | by definition all perl6 is modern, isn't it? do you mean, idiomatic? | 19:58 | |
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robertle | mostly non-panda :) | 20:03 | |
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tadzik | :( | 20:08 | |
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Doc_Holliwood | what's wrong tadzik? did somebody steal your closures? | 20:09 | |
[Coke] remembers when he used to be able to write code at work. | 20:10 | ||
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lizmat hugs tadzik | 20:10 | ||
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tadzik | :) | 20:22 | |
aearnus[m] | if I wanted to give a mini talk about Perl 6 at my local hackathon, who would I have to talk to / get permission from? | 20:30 | |
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[Coke] | ... no one? | 20:31 | |
we like it when people talk about Perl 6 | |||
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[Coke] | or do you mean a *specific* talk that someone already gave? | 20:31 | |
aearnus[m] | isn't the branding under some sort of licensing [Coke] | 20:32 | |
Nah nah I just meant stuff like using the Camelia logo | |||
moritz | aearnus[m]: you get permission from your hackathon organizers :-) | ||
aearnus[m]: you can use Camelia and the Perl trademark for communication about Perl 6 without any need for permission | |||
github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/mi...amelia.txt | 20:33 | ||
The Camelia image is a trademark of Larry Wall, and permission is | |||
granted for non-exclusive use to label anything related to Perl 6, | |||
provided the image is labeled as a trademark when used as a main logo | |||
on a page. (It is not necessary to so label icons, or other casual | |||
uses not related to business.) Such labeling may be done either by | |||
footnote or with a TM mark. | |||
see github.com/perl6/marketing/tree/master/LOGOs for logo variants | 20:34 | ||
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lizmat | and another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: p6weekly.wordpress.com/2019/08/19/...were-back/ | 20:36 | |
aearnus[m] | awesome! thank you moritz ! | ||
lizmat++ | |||
moritz | lizmat++ | 20:38 | |
leont | Is spider-mario also in this chat by another name? The rakudo package for arch hasn't been updated since april (and I think we've had a stable release since) | 20:53 | |
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timotimo | .seen spider-mario | 20:58 | |
tellable6 | timotimo, I saw spider-mario 2017-03-23T10:08:23Z in #perl6: <spider-mario> (wow, already) | ||
timotimo | oof, that has been a while | 20:59 | |
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MasterDuke | leont: i think he filed a rakudo issue because the change to the build process messed with his pkgbuild | 21:02 | |
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MasterDuke | R#3090 | 21:03 | |
synopsebot | R#3090 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/3090 [BLOCKER][build] Installer does not play well with Arch Linux’s makepkg | ||
leont | Ah, that would explain the situation | ||
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parrot_raiser | I've just tried to run p6doc after installing rakudo. It aborts with a fairly complex error message, ultimately about "too many positionals" in build_index. Any suggestions? | 21:22 | |
Sorry, that's "p6doc build" | 21:23 | ||
[Coke] | what version of rakudo, p6doc, and OS? | ||
(maybe update?) | 21:24 | ||
parrot_raiser | rakudo 2019.03.1, the p6doc that came with it, Mageia 7 Linux - I'd quote uname but can't get a screen scrape. | 21:26 | |
Linux localhost 5.2.7-desktop-1.mga7 #1 SMP Wed Aug 7 10:32:19 UTC 2019 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux | 21:28 | ||
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pamplemousse | lizmat++ #p6 weekly | 21:35 | |
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MasterDuke | parrot_raiser: huh, it doesn't seem to do anything for me (runs for a second or two, but no output or errors) | 21:37 | |
parrot_raiser | Is there somewhere I can post the complete error message chain? | 21:39 | |
MasterDuke | github.com/perl6/doc/issues | 21:40 | |
or do you mean a gist/pastebin site? | 21:41 | ||
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parrot_raiser | MasterDuke I was actually asking about pastebin, but I see issue # 2387 was exactly the same problem | 21:46 | |
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MasterDuke | parrot_raiser: huh, says it's fixed, but you have a newer version than when that was said. i'd suggest commenting or creating a new issue | 21:50 | |
parrot_raiser | MasterDuke I've added the details in a comment to the issue. If it's been fixed, the fix apparently hasn't reached Rakudo* | 21:59 | |
MasterDuke | parrot_raiser: cool, thanks | 22:01 | |
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guifa is wondering the best interface for a CLDR item and looking for advice | 22:22 | ||
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guifa | It’s to compute the grammatical gender of a list. E.g. in Spanish m+m = m, f+f = f, but f+m = m, but in other languages the calculating might be different. | 22:23 | |
I’m thinking list-gender(**@list, language) which is what I’ve used for other CLDR-based submodules but that kind of ruins the whole slurpy factor. OTOH I don’t really like the idea of making most things need :language($foo) instead of just $foo (and I’d prefer consistency so I don’t want some to take it as a named and others as a positional). | 22:26 | ||
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Geth | ¦ problem-solving: AlexDaniel self-assigned there is no security process for receiving security critical bug reports github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/92 | 22:27 | |
guifa | I imagine most people will be accessing it by passing a list or by generating the list in place, FWIW. E.g, list-gender(@people».gender) or by list-gender(@list-of-genders) but I kind of want to keep it open to use list-gender($cat,$dog,$desk,$chair), hence hte condundrum | 22:29 | |
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Geth | doc/rx-corr: 2c3fcc92df | threadless-screw++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6 Literals and metacharacters: layout correction, introduction of new examples, minor corrections |
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doc: threadless-screw++ created pull request #2957: Literals and metacharacters: layout correction, introduction of new e… |
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tbrowder | .tell lizmat great catchup weekly! | 23:06 | |
tellable6 | tbrowder, I'll pass your message to lizmat | ||
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SmokeMachine | vrurg: just to let you know, there is a new Red release! \o/ | 23:54 | |
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vrurg | SmokeMachine: My congrats! \o/ :) | 23:55 | |
vrurg is totally back to core development again... | |||
SmokeMachine | vrurg: and I’m probably releasing a new :api version soon... I’m changing the `is referencing` interface... | 23:56 | |
vrurg | Interesting. How is it looking now? | ||
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SmokeMachine | vrurg: it’s block will receive de model it should use... I mean, instead of { MyModel.id } something like: { .id }, :model<MyModel> | 23:59 | |
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