»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 July 2018.
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irced incidentally, i am copying the supply by value at some point i.e. not using any bind operator 00:00
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irced nope, it's not the bind operator issue. seems to be an issue with passing by value into different functions. maybe i can pass by reference? 00:04
maybe there's a way to "start" a supply before i pass it along 00:25
err supplier 00:26
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irced maybe i just need to rethink domains and signals here 😃 00:30
guifa jnthn++ 00:40
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irced god no! 01:47
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scimon So I'm finding some of the recent comments in the renaming thread confusing. 08:27
When exactly are you going to have production code which needs to run the most recent version of perl6 (or whatever) (because if you stick to an old version the name doesn't matter) but you can't spend the time to change the shebang line? 08:28
Seems a very contrived example.
El_Che my thoughts exactly 08:29
it's not like it will be a big bang tomorrow
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Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 531b628004 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/SWOT-TO-RAKU.md
Add initial version of SWOT analysis
 08:36
doc: d7b48569e5 | threadless-screw++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
Expansion of Regexes:Lexical Conventions section:

  - intro clarifying 'regular expressions' and 'regexes';
   - systematic treatment of anonymous and named regex definitions;
   - new subsection on common ways of matching regexes;		 08:39
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/regexes
doc: 22095edbc4 | threadless-screw++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
Minor corrections
doc: d10938e8f6 | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
Merge pull request #2962 from perl6/regexes

Expansion of Regexes:Lexical Conventions section
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lizmat so, what would be reasons to *not* treat the rename of Perl 6 as a fork ? 08:49
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SmokeMachine fork++ 08:50
lizmat++
El_Che lizmat: because you may end with forked communities? 08:51
lizmat that could be one, yes... but I'd like to see the fork as a purely technical solution, not as something that would be needed from the community 08:52
El_Che I get your motivation
but it's an extra risk
that wasn't there on the original proposal 08:53
while the risks for "backward compatibility" are exagerated
lizmat for the moment I'm just brainstorming
El_Che like scimon states
lizmat the advantage would be that current users would need to opt-in for the name change
rather than it being forced upon them
El_Che of course there are risks with a renaming, but backwards compatibility isn't one of them is handled right 08:54
add a perl6 link for a year
solved
scimon fork--
Epp
lizmat I guess we will need more than a year
El_Che if you run old code with an old compiler no problem there
lizmat scimon: Epp ? 08:55
El_Che if you maintain your project you have a big windows to make the 1 line change
scimon I think we're in a much better place to do a rename than a fork. Really we're at the start of the journey. Forking things now would just end up with 3 groups all of whom don't like each other.
(That should have been Eeep a small squeak of fear.)
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scimon Perl5 people angry at the remaining Perl6 people. Perl6 people angry at the Raku (or whatever people)... and Raku people sad because of all the anger. 08:56
El_Che if you get 2 repos/project that are updated individually we don't solve the problem we wanted to fix
Perl 6 is still squatting the Perl name (and Perl 5 people still pissed at us) 08:57
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SmokeMachine As I understood, the fork would not fork the community, just the language... and the oldone would be "abandoned"... 08:57
scimon Sure there is some Perl6 in production but any there is must surely be able to be updated before it's an issue.
El_Che and Perl 6 still lives in a marketing nightmare
lizmat El_Che: good point wrt squatting
El_Che SmokeMachine: "would"
scimon But if there's a fork some people would pick up the "abandoned" one
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El_Che lizmat: I see your proposal not only as the only way forward for Perl 6 but also as a healing gesture for the wider Perl community, explicitly acknowledging what Perl 5 people want/need. 08:58
and the forking weakens your proposal on the core idea 08:59
scimon Yup
Yup again
SmokeMachine scimon: yes... you are probably right...
scimon Yay it's a blue moon ;)
SmokeMachine El_Che: makes sense... 09:00
fork-- :(
aearnus[m] on top of everything else: if there's some band of people that don't like it, the language will still be open source when everything is said and done. That band can fork the language and call it whatever they want
lizmat ok, enough about the fork idea, it's bad, stricken from the replies
sorry for the noise 09:01
El_Che aearnus[m]: exactly, but only after the name-version situation is resolved.
lizmat: no sorries needed, glad to be a sounding board
scimon: we can't disagree later about the semicolons like we do on twitter :) 09:02
scimon :D
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scimon Right meetings 09:03
aearnus[m] El_Che: I could fork Perl 6 today and call it Perl 7. Or Perl 5, or (etc etc etc). Doubt that would ever hold water though
And I doubt it would hold water going forward
SmokeMachine aearnus[m]: you are late: github.com/perl7/perl7 09:04
:P
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 15a84518d4 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Simplify the Executables section
aearnus[m] Nooo, haha. Looks like Perl (12..*) is still open though :) 09:05
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: a1e9c806a1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Mention need for a META6.json file
lizmat aearnus[m] it has been suggested the release of Perl 5 in 2020 would be "Perl 32" 09:06
aearnus[m] Talk about un-google-able 09:07
El_Che aearnus[m]: no you can't. The Perl name is owned by Larry 09:09
aearnus[m]: or you can, but it can be taken down
aearnus[m] Fair point. Was just saying that as an example though, my point still stands regardless of what the hypothetical fork would be named 09:10
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El_Che aearnus[m]: what's the point exactly? I missed, I think 09:13
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aearnus[m] El_Che: just that if a group was REALLY unhappy with the name change, they could always fork the language themselves. it's not on the main community to do that 09:14
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El_Che aearnus[m]: ah OK, yes indeed. But it's a difference if the "fork" keeps the original name. Who is the fork then? 09:16
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Geth doc: ca2534fada | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/pod.pod6
Standardizes Pod name

To Pod6, which is exactly the same as the extension. It's bound to change eventually, so it's better if we always use the same thing.
I have changed Perl 6 Pod to Pod6 everywhere. Still, the official name with pod <non-breaking whitespace>6 is going to be used somewhere.
Pod has also been changed to Pod6, to avoid confusion with Perl 5's Pod. Several versions of the name, with or without capital, were used, so this also standardizes that.
This closes #1923		 09:23
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/pod
aearnus[m] El_Che: the msgs earlier were about whether a name change would work better as a fork of the language instead of a deprecation period and etc. I was just suggesting that the only forking that might happen is by people unhappy with the name. but it probably wouldn't happen either way
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 25916df3dc | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/SWOT-TO-RAKU.md
More SWOTs
 09:25
SmokeMachine would that be possible to create a tool that changes a module source code to fix everything needed to the rename? (extensions, .perl, Perl::, etc) 09:34
META6.json 09:35
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lizmat we need to keep the name "META6.json" unless we want to lose compatibility with PAUSE 09:36
and that would be bad
but, yes, such a tool should be relatively easy to make, or even be made part of something like App::MI6 09:37
moritz I think SmokeMachine meant that META6.json should be updated to reflect the changes
lizmat ah, ok :-) *phew* 09:38
things like App::MI6 already read and write the META6.json file anyway...
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SmokeMachine maybe even the tool could automatically open PRs... 09:39
lizmat as far as I can see, the tool only would need to rename files found in the META6.json and then change the META6.json itself accordingly
SmokeMachine lizmat: change any call to .perl to .raku, any use of the Perl namespace, perl variable, :from<Perl5> to :from<Perl>, etc... 09:41
lizmat SmokeMachine: should probably be made into a separate module, so that other apps (like Comma) could make use of it as well 09:42
SmokeMachine lizmat: yes...
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Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 59d86086fd | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/SWOT-TO-RAKU.md
Mention less confusion about name
 10:23
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tbrowder ref raku marketing: maybe get linus torvalds on board (git and linux kernel dev big-name users of perl) 10:45
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 2e477d6968 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/SWOT-TO-RAKU.md
Mention social media tagging
 10:48
scimon I started by renaming a module I'm working on from CommonMark::PP6 (Pure Perl 6) to CommonMark::Pure (it doesn't use and external library you see). 11:00
Currently it's got 130 tests passing and 520 failing so.... some work still to do.
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Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 2c7aeaf523 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/SWOT-TO-RAKU.md
Add marketing opportunity
 11:05
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Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: a264ae4e52 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/SWOT-TO-RAKU.md
Add some more threats

And remove "because of a name change", because that's what this SWOT analysis is all about anyway, so redundant		 11:14
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tbrowder lizmat: swot threat lose of cpan? 11:22
*loss
El_Che why? 11:35
tadzik it's definitely a threat imo 11:37
moritz because it's the Comprehensive *Perl* Archive Network 11:41
El_Che wasn't the idea to stay in the Perl (culture) family?
moritz the idea, yes
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moritz but the problem is that if we drop "Perl" from the name, some people will interpret that as "it's not perl anymore" 11:42
so people from the Perl 5 community rejecting Raku in parts of the infrastructure is a credible risk
El_Che those people reject Perl 6 already as not Perl, don't they?
moritz heck, even with "Perl" in the name, there were regular discussions on perlmonks whether Perl 6 questions belonged to perlmonks
El_Che: maybe, but they'll have a new lever
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El_Che I think that renaming will take the big lever away 11:47
moritz previously, the discussion was "do we really need Perl 6 questions on perlmonks? they annoy me" -- "yes, Perl 6 is Perl. It's even in the name" -- "OK, guess I can't do much about it, I'll ignore it" 11:48
after a rename, it will continue as "yes, Raku is still Perl, *despite* the name" -- "No way, Raku dropped 'Perl' from the name, go away from perlmonks" 11:50
El_Che moritz: that's a reasonable Perl6 hater
more often you have other reactions
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moritz El_Che: I've seen this exact behavior far too many times to dismiss it with "hater's gonna hate" 11:50
and replace perlmonks with TPF, Perl Conferences, Workshops, CPAN and so on 11:51
El_Che I mean that a lot of people don't react like that. As long Perl 6 jas the version in the name they consider it the enemy
I hope that the most extreme defactor will call victory and be happy 11:53
moritz a lot of people don't react like that, but the few that do pose a risk 11:54
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tadzik the enemy, yes, but still a relative that they need to care about 12:08
with Raku wanting to distance itself from Perl, it's not unreasonable to expect some Perl people to stop caring about it 12:09
moritz or more to the point, wanting to distance themselves from Raku 12:14
El_Che That happened already 12:15
cfr SawyerX keynote at YAPC-NA
Perl 5 is moving on, and that's great 12:16
the name is not changing that
If people want to stay as 1 meta-communiity it will happen, if people don't it will happen as well 12:17
whatever the name
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tbrowder is an apache mod_raku feasible? 13:07
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tison Recently I close a series of issues ever interested in. I close them because I myself have no interest of them any more. Please open another issues and refer to the existing issue and continue the discussion. Instead just reopen an issue closed by one's personal willing. 13:25
lucasb I don't think that's how things work 13:27
moritz tison: an issue is an issue is an issue, regardless of who has it 13:30
tison ok, i see.
moritz the information that you are no longer interested is valuable, but others could have had the same issue, and not opened a new one because the saw the existing one
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harmil Howdy all. 13:51
m: join ", ", "abc\x[0308]".comb>>.ord>>.fmt("0x%04X") 13:52
camelia ( no output )
harmil m: say join ", ", "abc\x[0308]".comb>>.ord>>.fmt("0x%04X")
camelia 0x0061, 0x0062, 0x0063
harmil That confuses me... shouldn't the last codepoint be an NFG-created reserved point? 13:53
AlexDaniel m: say join ", ", "abc\x[0308]".comb>>.ord 13:57
camelia 97, 98, 99
AlexDaniel m: say join ", ", "abc\x[0308]".comb>>.ords
camelia 97, 98, 99, 776
AlexDaniel m: say join ", ", "abc\x[0308]".ords
camelia 97, 98, 99, 776
AlexDaniel m: say join ", ", "abc\x[0308]".uninames
camelia LATIN SMALL LETTER A, LATIN SMALL LETTER B, LATIN SMALL LETTER C, COMBINING DIAERESIS
AlexDaniel harmil: is it more clear this way? 13:58
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harmil It's not clear to me why comb.>>ord is not showing what's there... it's also not clear to me why I'm not seeing the NFG reserved private use codepoint. Is there a way I can ask for that? 14:04
Sorry if that sounded brusque. I'm doing 12 things ;-) 14:05
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Grinnz lizmat: not sure how to phrase this but would add reduced confusion in other analysis as a benefit (not just tiobe) 14:09
for example source file classification, stack overflow tags (specifically that their system considers the perl6 tag a version of the perl tag), ... 14:10
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Grinnz basically, all analysis difficulties that stem from the name being differentiated only by a number 14:12
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sena_kun m: sub a(*$a) {} 14:16
camelia ( no output )
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sena_kun is ^ not forbidden to compile just because or? 14:16
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sena_kun m: sub a(*$a) { say $a }; a(1,2,3); 14:16
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camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Calling a(Int, Int, Int) will never work with declared signature ($a)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub a(*$a) { say $a }; 7⏏5a(1,2,3);		 14:16
sena_kun the error message sees the signature as just "$a" 14:17
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sena_kun m: sub a(*$a) { say $a }; &a.signature.params[0].sigil.say; 14:19
camelia $
sena_kun m: sub a(*&a) { say $a }; &a.signature.params[0].sigil.say;
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '$a' is not declared. Did you mean '&a'?
at <tmp>:1
------> 3sub a(*&a) { say 7⏏5$a }; &a.signature.params[0].sigil.say;
Doc_Holliwood I'm scratching my head here guys. I am trying to output "ö" in a Windows console. I set the codepage to 1252 and do .encode("utf-8").decode("windows-1252").say; ( see pastebin.com/caNYgdFG ) but the console still thinks it's unicode
sena_kun m: sub a(*&a) {}; &a.signature.params[0].sigil.say;
camelia &
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Doc_Holliwood This works as it should in Perl 5: use utf8; use Encode; print encode("iso-8859-1","ö"); 14:20
Do I have to tell Perl somehow that STDOUT is not unicode? 14:21
huf doesnt decode() decode? if so, why are you decoding from windows codepage instead of encoding to it? 14:22
Doc_Holliwood If I understand that right, no. that should encode from the utf-8 ( 246.char ) to "normal form" and decode that to latin-1 14:26
AlexDaniel Doc_Holliwood: you might need to reopen $*OUT with a different encoding 14:27
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Grinnz that's not what encode and decode mean. 14:28
you encode *to* a character encoding and decode *from* it
and 246.char is not utf-8, it's a character 14:29
I assume the details here are utf-8 oriented, so you need to change stdout to do cp1252 instead like AlexDaniel said 14:30
er, defaults
Doc_Holliwood it's not a character. it's a Str
Grinnz I am speaking in the Unicode sense
Doc_Holliwood m: 246.char.WHAT.say
camelia No such method 'char' for invocant of type 'Int'. Did you mean any of these?
can
chars
chop
chr

in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Doc_Holliwood m: 246.chr.WHAT.say 14:31
camelia (Str)
Grinnz it is not encoded to utf-8.
it is not encoded to anything
the output would encode it to utf-8 by default (again, assuming I understand correctly)
AlexDaniel m: $*OUT = $*OUT.open: enc => ‘windows-1252’; say ‘œ’ 14:32
camelia \x9C
AlexDaniel e: $*OUT = $*OUT.open: enc => ‘windows-1252’; say ‘œ’
evalable6 􏿽x9C
AlexDaniel that seems to work? 14:33
Grinnz you need to have the output encode to cp1252 because that's what your terminal expects. most terminals in unix land expect utf-8
as well as irc 14:34
Doc_Holliwood I see
$*OUT.encoding("latin-1"); did the trick, I don't need to encode or decode anything, I can just .say
Grinnz note that latin1 is missing a bunch of characters from cp1252. so make sure to use the latter if you want those 14:35
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Doc_Holliwood reads the fucking manual 14:42
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Doc_Holliwood or, I might simply set the codepage to utf-8 ( 65001 ) 14:42
Grinnz probably a good idea 14:43
Doc_Holliwood I have my moments ;-) 14:44
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Doc_Holliwood Is there a way to alias native types? so I can for example write "sub foo(BOOL, DWORD) is native yada yada" instead of "sub foo(uint32, int32)"? 15:27
I tried inheriting from them but apparently that isn't supported
AlexDaniel m: constant \x := uint32; sub foo(x, int32) {}; dd &foo 15:29
camelia Sub foo = sub foo (uint32 $, int32 $) { #`(Sub|59767352) ... }
Doc_Holliwood very nice 15:32
ty
this is a syntax error, sadly. constant \LPDWORD := uint32 is rw; But I guess I can live with DWORD is rw in the signature instead :-D 15:36
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lizmat weekly: yakshavingcream.blogspot.com/2019/...eview.html 15:46
notable6 lizmat, Noted! (weekly)
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Geth doc: Michael-S++ created pull request #2964:
Added comment syntax on 101 page.		 16:06
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Geth whateverable: f564a7f6e1 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | 2 files
See messages that are sent to other users

Using $.NEXT is not enough to make IRC::Client redispatch to another method. The plugin system seems a bit fragile, but maybe it's because I'm not using it properly. Anyway, this should now catch more messages, perhaps with a few (mostly irrelevant) exceptions.		 16:19
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AlexDaniel timotimo: ↑ fixed! 16:19
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sarna hi, I'm trying to sneak perl6 into my workplace and I need to install it on a docker container quickly - what would be the best way to do this? 16:25
I can't build rakudo-star, it'd be too slow
timotimo i'd recommend going with nxadm's packages
or using a perl6 docker image as the base perhaps
sarna yeah I've been thinking about just pulling an image and then discarding it (I need to do some string processing before prod build) 16:26
timotimo: could you please link me to nxadm's packages? can't find them in ddg 16:27
oh, found them! nevermind :D
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sarna alpine builds are available, perfect. thanks! 16:30
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sarna interesting 16:42
Geth whateverable: 51c0e06894 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | 2 files
Fix Reportable and Nativecallable

It's a PATH issue. The code was very fragile and should be a little bit better now.		 16:48
whateverable: 9d16c7cd37 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | xbin/Reportable.p6
Use the right variable name (oops)
 16:50
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El_Che sarna: add this in your image: github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg#os-repositories 16:51
if you need alpine, there are apks here: github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg#direct-downloads 16:52
sarna El_Che: yeah, thanks :) I'll have to go for direct downloads, since we use alpine for this build
yeah
El_Che however, if you need to compile C modules, you'll probably want something else than alpine, eg debian-slim
sarna now I'm doing the substitution thing with awk and it's.. not pretty 16:53
El_Che ah ok, I haven't found an easy way to create alpine repos yet
if you do, feel free to open an issue or send a PR :)
sarna well, I can probably switch to debian/ubuntu if alpine proves problematic in this regard
will do :)
sarna is their own devops team 16:54
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El_Che maybe the new github CI infra will support apk by an api. I am using bintray because rpm and deb repos are easy there 16:54
(and the bandwidth) 16:55
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sarna bintray seems nice 16:56
don't know about github, I've mostly moved from there - I'm not really comfortable giving my stuff to Microsoft :) 16:57
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lizmat weekly: perlweeklychallenge.org/blog/meet-...mpion-021/ 17:54
notable6 lizmat, Noted! (weekly)
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woolfy1 I wanted to write a reaction to the renaming plans of lizmat, because I disagree with any such plans quite a lot. 18:02
I wrote this...
weekly: wendyga.wordpress.com/2019/08/21/t...of-perl-6/
notable6 woolfy1, Noted! (weekly)
[Coke] woolfy1++ 18:07
... this is lo! 18:10
nger than I thought!
woolfy1 It is indeed quite long. It is even less coherent than I wanted. I am not capable of coherent when it comes to the name of Perl 6. 18:12
But since I don't have a vote in this issue, I can merely blog. Still, I am trying to help lizmat...
lizmat Once upon a time in Hollywood& 18:14
Grinnz woolfy1: It makes me sad to read the ending. And I'm sorry the discussions cause you such grief. But no matter how much you want Perl 6 to be the successor of Perl 5, it is directly in conflict with what a *lot* of people want, and with what the languages are now in design and intent. And as long as the names are misrepresenting that relationship, people will continue to hate the other community, and it's destructive and antithetical 18:17
to the relationship we could and should have. If Perl 6 is to replace Perl 5, it will only do so by attrition, decades in the future.
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AlexDaniel woolfy1: what's your handle on github? 18:21
El_Che I my --probably irrelevant-- opinion, if the naming situation persists Perl 5 and 6 will loose all relevance in a few years. A now of never moment in time. (Perl will have maintenance codebase, but that will only get you so far. It also need new *modern* stuff in new major releases) 18:22
AlexDaniel found it
El_Che Renaming does not fix that, but it opens an opportunity, small as it may be 18:23
AlexDaniel woolfy1: invitation sent, you can accept it here: github.com/perl6/problem-solving/invitations
woolfy1: after that you'll be able to leave comments on Raku issue/PR 18:24
if anybody else has something valuable to say but can't, just ping me
[Coke] the items that go in Perl 5 can be new, modern things regardless.
El_Che [Coke]: the most modern thing perl as added in a decade is signatures in experimental.
[Coke] I do wish we had a writeup of the various detours & conversations we've already had over the last 20 years. 18:25
El_Che [Coke]: but that's up to the Perl 5 people to decide where they want to go. Like I said, my irrelevant 2c
[Coke] El_Che: and that has nothing to do with the name.
El_Che Squatting the next major version so the whole world thinks you're dead? It a*absolutely* does. 18:26
Grinnz the appearance of the ability to modernize itself has everything to do with the name.
[Coke] (up to p5 people) aye. Sawyer X asked the question at the last TPC, not sure if he announced the answer.
El_Che they can steal all the good features of JS, Go, Rust and .Net and still be dead because there is a slower newer version out there
[Coke]: my point is that for P5, renaming is not enough 18:27
[Coke]: but is a part of the solution
if the major release name is freed, but Perl 5 core still misses modern OO, concurrency and a sane deployment model, the decline will not stop 18:28
AlexDaniel woolfy1: yeah, the versioning is stupid 18:30
:)
I guess it was appropriate because of perl5 18:31
El_Che because of reasons :) 18:32
anyway, my opinion is not meant to disrespect people that have invested a lot of years on Perl 5 and 6. 18:33
cpan-p6 New module released to CPAN! Date::Calendar::Hebrew (0.0.2) by 03JFORGET 18:37
[Coke] Thank you for the caveat, lots of strong feelings on this topic.
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AlexDaniel woolfy1: ♥ 18:39
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El_Che [Coke]: yeah, I wrote blog post about that in 2018 :( 18:43
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El_Che in November and I predicted the return of the discussion every 6 months. Not that far off :) 18:43
tadzik hehe, there seems to be a sentiment among Perl 5 people that "damn, if only we weren't limited by the *name* and we could drop backcompat we could make Perl 5 so much better so quickly!" 18:45
I... wish them all the best if they decide to go for it
El_Che tadzik: yeah :( 18:46
rindolf hi all 18:47
El_Che o/
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Grinnz tadzik: it is not an all or nothing. it is more that the name prevents many options 18:56
El_Che With the small pool of people that can actually hack the core, I find it unlikely that what's needed will happen. However, for in the case it does, the proper thing to do is to help where possible. The naming mess is one of those opportunities. 18:58
aearnus[m] was kinda out of the loop for a few days: did consensus settle on Raku or Camelia? 18:59
El_Che inserts animated gif of Homer disappearing in hte bushes 19:00
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aearnus[m] uploaded an image: tenor_gif4770222567960852367.gif (84KB) < matrix.org/_matrix/media/v1/downlo...RiKLETCHdd > 19:01
El_Che exactly :)
19:05 aborazmeh left 19:10 noisegul left 19:12 aborazmeh joined, aborazmeh left, aborazmeh joined, harmil left, pilne joined 19:15 AlexDaniel is now known as mom 19:16 mom is now known as yourmom, yourmom is now known as I` 19:17 I` is now known as someone`, someone` is now known as also 19:18 also is now known as such, such is now known as or, or is now known as and, and is now known as can` 19:19 can` is now known as when, when is now known as you` 19:20 you` is now known as think 19:21 think is now known as AlexDaniel, AlexDaniel is now known as could, could is now known as why` 19:22 why` is now known as AlexDaniel
AlexDaniel if anybody wonders what these nicknames are about, see this: colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_lo...08-21#l167 19:22
jdv79 you could probably test that sort of thing in a random chan...;) 19:23
El_Che and miss all the fun? nooo 19:26
[Coke] I'm sure he did, but when he renames himself we can all see it, no?
oh, it all happened in -dev. :| 19:27
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nepugia is that the matrix bridge? 19:38
or a matrix bridge doing that?
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guifa just realized that woolfy1 is wendy. 19:44
(sometimes it gets confusing going back and forth between github here and FB. I’m equally as guilty with three different names ha) 19:45
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aearnus[m] nepugia: sending the gif? I'm just using a matrix based client 19:54
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AlexDaniel jdv79: test what stuff? It's actual messages being delivered 20:02
basically, when yoleaux was still here it did a poor job of figuring out if the nickname is actually valid 20:03
so sometimes people would forget to include the nickname in the message and they'd end up being sent to random words 20:04
lucasb I hope they got n0tjack's message...
AlexDaniel I think that one was deliberate :)
lucasb :D 20:05
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nepugia i ment the nick stuff, the matrix bridge has a defect which i consider a serious exploit with the nicks ;( 20:07
AlexDaniel guifa: it was difficult during perlcon because badges didn't even have nicknames, only real names
nepugia basically if you have a matrix acc and set your nick on the irc side to a word the bridge will translate that to your matrix nickname
AlexDaniel guifa: or at least most of them didn't
nepugia: sounds fun 20:08
nepugia absolutely 20:09
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guifa AlexDaniel: I wish I could have gone this year. Hopefully going to make it next year and going to propose a talk on internationalization/localization stuff (which I should have more fleshed out by then) 20:17
MasterDuke same here, mostly (wish i could have gone, going to try for next year, but not going to propose a talk on internationalization/localization stuff) 20:22
jdv79 AlexDaniel: it was a feature;) 20:25
AlexDaniel nah 20:26
.tell jdv69 hello
tellable6 AlexDaniel, I haven't seen jdv69 around, did you mean jdv79?
AlexDaniel now that's a feature
jdv79 what if i want to send a msg to someone that hasn't been around? 20:27
AlexDaniel then you wait 20:28
aearnus[m] that's what email is for :^) 20:29
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rba seen: ` 21:20
perlbot rba: I last saw ` saying "Helo." at Fri Jul 5 03:04:35 2013 Z.
tellable6 rba, I saw ` 2016-12-28T17:19:46Z in #perl6: <`> heh, registered
rba seen: friend 21:21
perlbot rba: I last saw friend saying "hola amigos" at Thu Jul 18 23:35:43 2013 Z.
tellable6 rba, I haven't seen friend around, did you mean ddddddd?
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AlexDaniel simcop2387: interesting. Seems like the bots clash on seen: command 21:25
I didn't know perlbot had it
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simcop2387 hmm, yea seen shouldn't be working that way for perlbot. I'll have a look tonight after work. at least it's not something too terrible it's doing that with 21:27
it should be requiring you to address it for that
AlexDaniel perlbot: seen AlexDaniel
perlbot AlexDaniel: I last saw AlexDaniel saying "AlexDaniel" at Wed Aug 21 21:29:52 2019 Z.
AlexDaniel simcop2387: cool, thanks 21:28
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woolfy1 Grinnz: it may come as a shock to you, and to others, but you are among the people who make me want to leave the Perl-community. You are not an honest man, coming on this channel and promote whatever you want to promote. 21:51
Grinnz I'm sorry you feel that way. I have been completely honest in what I have said.
woolfy1 Grinnz: you sat across Liz during the latest Perl Toolchain Summit, and did not utter a word to her, not even when she talked to you. I witnessed it. I spoke later to you and got a short but grumpy reply. You seem to despise Perl 6 and I have no idea what you are doing here.
Grinnz: stop it. You are among those Perl 5 people who want Perl 6 to go away. You are not honest. 21:52
AlexDaniel: thanks for the invitation. I will think about it. Buit I think I have said what I wanted to say. 21:53
Grinnz That is how I act with anyone. I know it can give the wrong impression and I'm sorry it did to you
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woolfy1 To all: I am a bit sorry that the first thing I did, after going to the movies with lizmat and returning home, is to berate somebody who I consider to be a hypocrite. 21:53
Grinnz Please don't project motivations on me. I am here because I have a vested interest in how both communities proceed, but I am happy to leave if it makes you feel better. 21:54
dominix hi everyone, ... is there any plan for perl6 on Clear linux ?
bartolin hugs woolfy1 21:55
woolfy1 Hi guifa... I am indeed Wendy. Woolfy is my nickname for over 20 years already... :-) 21:56
woolfy1 hugz bartolin right back 21:57
Grinnz : I do not want you to go anywhere. I just don't understand your presence here, other than that you want to be very sure that perl 6 f**ks off into the void. And yes, I am grumpy and impolite. 21:59
Grinnz I have a deep respect for what you both have contributed to the community, even though I make very clear my disagreements. I hope the discussion can continue with the respect it had in the issue.
woolfy1 Plus, I am not the one to make such a decision.
Nope, that ship has sailed for me.
woolfy1 exit...
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El_Che woolfy1: Grinnz has been very polite and constructive, I don't think conflict is needed 22:00
tellable6 El_Che, I'll pass your message to woolfy1
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Grinnz If she wants me to say that I only care what happens with Perl 6 in as much as it will affect Perl, the language and the name, then I will say that. that doesn't mean it has to be an adversarial concern. 22:04
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AlexDaniel dominix: maybe? What's the policy there? 22:12
Doc_Holliwood attempts to build rakudo under Haiku 22:13
AlexDaniel dominix: also, can you install rpms or other types of packages?
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pmurias what happened with our Perl 6 GSoC projects? 22:19
I have only seen reports for the self contained executable ones
AlexDaniel pmurias: the docs one is going fine if I understand correctly 22:20
the one about encodings also had some progress
but I don't have any links…
MasterDuke pretty sure they were linked in a weekly (maybe not both in the same one) 22:21
pmurias good, I just got worried something bad happened to all of them :/ 22:22
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AlexDaniel no, I think it's fine 22:22
jmerelo: is there an overview of all our gsoc projects? colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_lo...08-21#l728
tellable6 AlexDaniel, I'll pass your message to jmerelo
jnthn The encodings one was a success in so far as it's resulted in support for GB2312 being added, which I believe was its goal 22:23
MasterDuke pmurias: complete change of topic, but i've forgotten how truffle support is going. i think a while ago you implemented something which should free up some new low-hanging fruit? 22:25
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SmokeMachine vrurg: just to let you know if you are interested: gist.github.com/FCO/cc73863cf90587...3781cb1f2d 22:58
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vrurg SmokeMachine: Oh, how I missed it! ;) I need to think of another project for myself to play with many great stuff around. 23:00
SmokeMachine vrurg: it's on a branch yet... a lot of tests to fix... 23:01
vrurg SmokeMachine: My current queue of tasks is currently long enough to only dream of anything like that. :) 23:02
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aearnus[m] SmokeMachine: if you managed to integrate Red with Cro, that would totally be Perl 6's killer app 23:05
SmokeMachine aearnus[m]: something like this? github.com/FCO/Cro-HTTP-Session-Red 23:06
:)
vrurg aearnus[m]: Cro::HTTP::Session::Red to start with.
Ah, I'm late!
rba AlexDaniel: Is tellable6 got more IQ and acts on his own? Did he pass the turing test already? 23:07
vrurg aearnus[m]: otherwise, what other level of intergation can you think of?
SmokeMachine vrurg: that's a good question! 23:08
aearnus[m]: do you have a suggestion for that integration? 23:10
aearnus[m] The session manager is nice 23:14
vrurg yawns... JVM backend builds...
aearnus[m] I just miss my Ruby on rails `rake db:create_migration` workflow 23:15
SmokeMachine aearnus[m]: github.com/FCO/Red/issues/15
vrurg aearnus[m]: wanna try yourself in this area?
aearnus[m] Hmm, I'd like to. A lot of ORM stuff goes over my head though 23:18
SmokeMachine aearnus[m]: could you comment on that thread to help me to find out how would work a good migration?
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aearnus[m] SmokeMachine: I read through that thread and I pretty much agree with everything you put forth 23:36
I don't think i'd have anything else on top of it. i'm looking forward to seeing how it works out :D
AlexDaniel rba: yeah, pretty much 23:38
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SmokeMachine aearnus[m]: have you seen that the CLI already started? 23:39
aearnus[m] yeah, I looked at it since you sent the link 23:40
AlexDaniel rba: at least you don't need to use .tell anymore, but .seen is still required I guess 23:41
rba: unless you talk to the bot directly
tellable6: rba
tellable6 AlexDaniel, I saw rba 2019-08-21T23:07:33Z in #perl6: <rba> AlexDaniel: Is tellable6 got more IQ and acts on his own? Did he pass the turing test already?
AlexDaniel tellable6: rba and you can also pass a message like this 23:42
tellable6 AlexDaniel, I'll pass your message to rba
SmokeMachine AlexDaniel: you don't need to use .tell? how do you use it?
AlexDaniel SmokeMachine: just say “nickname: I hope to see you soon!” and that's it
Zoffix: I miss you!
OK it didn't work this time xD
I wonder why 23:43
SmokeMachine AlexDaniel: Are you using Red for that? :P
AlexDaniel: just kidding... 23:44
AlexDaniel ok now I won't be able to sleep until I figure this out :D
SmokeMachine: ah, actually, I know 23:45
SmokeMachine AlexDaniel: but is it saving every mentioned message?
AlexDaniel SmokeMachine: Zoffix was away for so long that tellable6 no longer thinks that it's a valid nick 23:46
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AlexDaniel the cutoff is at 3 months currently 23:46
but it works for anybody else, like
woolfy: thank you for your work! 23:47
tellable6 AlexDaniel, I'll pass your message to woolfy1
AlexDaniel also notice how it autocorrected the nickname :)
SmokeMachine: it doesn't save anything unless it say “I'll pass your message”. Also it saves the very last message of every user for seen functionality, but that's it 23:48
SmokeMachine AlexDaniel: it saves to send every message for people that has not said anything for X time?
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AlexDaniel SmokeMachine: it'll automatically .tell if the user is currently not on the channel 23:49
SmokeMachine hum...
AlexDaniel: makes sense...
AlexDaniel it behaves smarter than the code looks :) 23:50
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AlexDaniel just a few ifs 23:50
SmokeMachine AlexDaniel: seems interesting... 23:51
AlexDaniel 180 lines of code github.com/perl6/whateverable/blob...ellable.p6
aearnus[m] hehe, FootgunDB 23:53
AlexDaniel :D 23:54
aearnus[m] is there an easy vector drawing library for perl6? i'm thinking something like Haskell's Gloss 23:59
(I had an itch to make one of those silly little falling sand games)

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