»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by masak on 12 May 2015.
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tony-o nah 00:18
here is the one liner i was using 00:19
my HTTP::Server::Threaded $s .=new; $s.handler(sub ($r,$s) { $s.close("sup"); }); $s.listen;
and then: ab <whatever> 127.0.0.1:8091/
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timotimo t/07_chunkedrequestecho.t ......... ok - and then it just doesn't do anything any more 01:52
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gagalicious is there a perlbot here? 02:04
perlbot : how are u?
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[Coke] m: say "hi" 02:30
camelia rakudo-moar 28a769: OUTPUT«hi␤»
colomon paultcochrane++ 02:32
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BenGoldberg_ m: say 'I am a ' ~ $*PERL ~ ' bot.' 02:50
camelia rakudo-moar 28a769: OUTPUT«I am a Perl 6 bot.␤»
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dalek kudo/nom: d6430c1 | lizmat++ | docs/ChangeLog:
Fix probable typo
 03:33
lizmat std: my @a = *[1,2.3] 03:37
camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 140m␤»
lizmat m: my @a = *[1,2.3]; say @a 03:38
camelia rakudo-moar 28a769: OUTPUT«WhateverCode.new␤»
lizmat m: my @a = *[1,2.3]; say @a.perl
camelia rakudo-moar 28a769: OUTPUT«[WhateverCode.new]<>␤»
lizmat feels to me that *[...] makes more sense as a flattening indicator than :[...], because we also use it for slurpies
skids I can see that but I think I may have actually used *[] in a whatever already. 03:40
lizmat skids: so what does that mean? 03:41
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lizmat camelia's output didn't tell me much... 03:41
skids m: my @lperms = [^16], { [ (7,4,13,1,10,6,15,3,12,0,9,5,2,14,11,8)[$_.values] ] } ... *[0] == 4; @lperms.say
hrm.
camelia rakudo-moar 28a769: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 03:42
skids weird that works in production... 03:43
oh, thats an old file.
Used to work. Broke at some point and I had to work around it. 03:44
m: ($(1,2),$(2,3)).grep(*[1] == 2).perl.say # simpler example. 03:46
camelia rakudo-moar 28a769: OUTPUT«($(1, 2),)␤»
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skids Dunno, ban "\_" as a term and use underscore? 03:50
gagalicious pastebin.com/60jK1bEk <-- i have some characters like <202e> etc that is seen from inside vim editor... i would like to remove them using the perl substitution but it doesnt work. help. 03:51
labster hm, just managed to segfault my REPL on the second expression. 03:52
skids oh that's P5 code. 03:53
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skids So, assuming :[] do we also get @foo:[1,2,3] or is that a syntactic mess? 03:58
(as a flattening slice)
labster .u 202E
yoleaux U+202E RIGHT-TO-LEFT OVERRIDE [Cf] (<control>)
TimToady subscripts already flatten
the assumption is that you're slicing, and that indices typically want to be integers, not sublists 03:59
skids Ah, so that's one flattening context that will remain. 04:00
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skids heheh. crazy up-too-late idea. Make term<_> a magical "identity array" and _[] falls out naturally. 04:03
Oh I guess that really only works for hashes.
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skids Maybe the inside-flattener belongs inside the circumfix. 04:09
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skids m: $[|1,[2,3]].perl.say 04:12
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Hau1DX6rlf␤Arg-flattening | is only valid in an argument list␤at /tmp/Hau1DX6rlf:1␤------> 3$[|7⏏051,[2,3]].perl.say␤»
skids Isn't that semantically an argument list?
Oh, guess not because adverb part of the capture oes outside. 04:14
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tony-o m: $[1,2,3].perl.say 04:41
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«(Any, Any, Any)␤»
gagalicious pastebin.com/60jK1bEk <-- i have some characters like <202e> etc that is seen from inside vim editor... i would like to remove them using the perl substitution but it doesnt work. help.
tony-o m: |$[1,[2,3]].perl.say 04:42
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/mdEyy57bSR␤Arg-flattening | is only valid in an argument list␤at /tmp/mdEyy57bSR:1␤------> 3|7⏏5$[1,[2,3]].perl.say␤»
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dalek line-Perl5: 7e03fc9 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | t/lib/P5 (2 files):
Add missing test files

Thanks to quester++ for reporting		 06:28
masak morning, #perl6
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masak tony-o: we use `flat` outside of argument lists, and `|` in argument lists... for some reason... 06:29
[ptc] masak: o/ 06:32
yoleaux 11 Jun 2015 23:15Z <japhb> [ptc]: rakudo commit ba5fab6 sets a default for :$abs_tol = 0, but then immediately dies unless $abs_tol > 0. This seems unintentional. In fact, I don't see why either $abs_tol or $rel_tol == 0 is a problem; it's just the degenerate equality case, rather than approximation.
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[ptc] japhb: actually, the is-approx implementation was just a proposal to be discussed. 06:33
japhb: unfortunately, in the end not much discussion happened. I based the implementation on that which Python uses in SciPy and it seemed a sensible way to do it. 06:34
japhb: I'm most certainly open to improvements to the current is-approx implementation
japhb: the reason I proposed the change at all was because the previous implementation was producing inconsistent results. E.g. very small numbers were always approximately equal even if being wildy different 06:39
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labster m: multi sub prefix:<|> (\a) { a.flat }; say (|[1,2,3]).perl 07:02
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/jvrQI4RBsS␤Arg-flattening | is only valid in an argument list␤at /tmp/jvrQI4RBsS:1␤------> 3i sub prefix:<|> (\a) { a.flat }; say (|7⏏5[1,2,3]).perl␤»
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labster n: multi sub prefix:<|> (\a) { a.flat }; say (|[1,2,3]).perl 07:05
camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«sh: mono: command not found␤»
dalek line-Perl5: a1c1d93 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | / (2 files):
Check for presence of Filter::Simple P5 module in build scripts

Should give the user a somewhat more usefull error message than just test failures.
Thanks to quester++ for the suggestion!
Fixes GH#25		 07:07
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masak m: multi sub prefix:<|||> (\a) { a.flat }; say (|||[1,2,3]).perl 07:26
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3]<>␤»
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labster masak: Yeah, the grammar hates me. 07:30
FROGGS :S 07:33
good morning
labster good morning FROGGS
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RabidGravy m: my @a; @a[0] = 65537; sub foo( @h where * <65536) { say @h}; foo(@a) 10:00
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«65537␤»
RabidGravy clearly the whatever there refers to something other than the individual elements 10:01
is there a way of doing that but constrain the values of the elements?
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psch m: my @a; @a[0] = 65537; sub foo( @h where *.grep(* > 65536) == 0) { say @h}; foo(@a) 10:05
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«Constraint type check failed for parameter '@h'␤ in sub foo at /tmp/Z8RhiiJLsX:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Z8RhiiJLsX:1␤␤»
psch intuitively i wanted "where all(*) < 65536", but that doesn't compile 10:06
m: my @a; @a[0] = 65537; sub foo( @h where all(*) < 65536) { say @h}; foo(@a)
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«Cannot call Real(Whatever: ); none of these signatures match:␤ (Mu:U \v: *%_)␤ in sub foo at /tmp/OZUK2M2gWA:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/OZUK2M2gWA:1␤␤»
psch like that
not sure it should, though, Junctions again :P
oh, also the working one probably wants >= 10:07
m: my @a; @a[0] = 65537; sub foo( @h where { @^a.grep(* < 65536) == @a}) { say @h}; foo(@a) # or like this 10:09
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«Constraint type check failed for parameter '@h'␤ in sub foo at /tmp/_ZOK3qCo4w:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/_ZOK3qCo4w:1␤␤»
psch the all(*) approach does have something, though, but i guess it's an order-of-execution problem 10:10
i.e. we can't Junction before we have a parameter but have to, so we try to Junction the Whatever and that breaks..? 10:11
something like that, i'd guess
aha 10:12
but with placeholders it works
m: my @a; @a[0] = 65537; sub foo( @h where { all(@^a) < 65536 }) { say @h}; foo(@a) # or like this
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«Constraint type check failed for parameter '@h'␤ in sub foo at /tmp/g9QhtiWp2k:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/g9QhtiWp2k:1␤␤»
psch RabidGravy: ^^^ that?
RabidGravy yeah, that :) cheers 10:13
psch now who to bug about the Whatever not doing the right thing there...
or maybe just for clarification if that *is* the right thing :s
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jnthn Teaching so can't stay long but: no, the * ain't expected to work there, that's not a context where it auto-curries. But why introduce a parameter at all? "where all(@h) < 65536" works 10:22
That is, just use the nmae of the parameter itself
psch oh, that works? 10:23
that's probably even better, i thought of where taking a closure
but yeah, the actual parameter should still be reachable anyway
m: my @a; @a[0] = 65537; sub foo( @h where all(@h) < 65536 ) { say @h}; foo(@a) # or like this
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«Constraint type check failed for parameter '@h'␤ in sub foo at /tmp/ymKUSc5BM3:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ymKUSc5BM3:1␤␤»
psch jnthn++
jnthn yeah, we take care in the binder to put the symbol in place early enough to be sure it works :)
psch jnthn: can i pick your brain later regarding my path towards standalone executable jars? 10:24
jnthn psch: Can try after teaching; let's see how I feel
psch jnthn: i'm trying to be able to run precompiled .class files directly, via the RakudoEvalServer
RabidGravy I'd rather do "subset Short of Int where * < 65536; sub foo(Short @a) { ... }" but that doesn't appear to work either
psch jnthn: sure, thanks :)
jnthn (I'm still digging my way back to full health.)
RabidGravy: Array types are nominal 10:25
That is, you'd have to pass an array declared as a Short array 10:26
You do know that native arrays work, yes? :)
my int16 @arr
lunch &
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RabidGravy ooh, that might work. I didn't now that would but that's even better 10:27
except it doesn't crap out early enough 10:29
m: my int16 @a; @a[0] = 65537; sub foo(int16 @h) { say @h}; foo(@a)
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«1␤»
psch well, it overflows 10:31
RabidGravy: maybe redesigning further up is the better approach. as in, where does it come up that you might have data outside of your range and can you prohibit it there? 10:33
except this might already *be* that spot, in which case i'd go with the where clause 10:34
RabidGravy well it's more where it goes
it goes into a CArray[int16] which then gets passed to a short * in a native function 10:35
allowing it to wrap not good 10:36
psch just modulo MAX_VALUE :P
clipping is an artistic choice
yeah, no, i guess the where clause does what you need then 10:37
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RabidGravy they are like to be gigantic arrays, I think for the time being its document the constraint and the wrapping behaviour and leave the actual constraint to the user 10:47
though that's not too shabby: 10:51
m: my @a = (^65538); sub foo( @h where all(@h) <65536) { say @h}; foo(@a)
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«Constraint type check failed for parameter '@h'␤ in sub foo at /tmp/otDajGzfZk:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/otDajGzfZk:1␤␤»
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psch m: our Int sub f { fail "a" }; f() # RT #64990 11:00
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...l?id=64990
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«Earlier failure:␤ a␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ei0jX01kk7:1␤␤Final error:␤ Type check failed for return value; expected 'Int' but got 'Failure'␤ in any return_error at src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:639␤ in sub f at /tmp/ei0jX01kk7:1␤ in block…»
psch naively i'd say p6typecheckrv always allows Failure as matching the type check, but that feels iffy 11:01
FROGGS psch: but I think something like that was agreed on... 11:07
I remember jnthn talking about it
m: my Int sub f { fail "a" }; f() 11:08
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«Earlier failure:␤ a␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/fvgswF03l8:1␤␤Final error:␤ Type check failed for return value; expected 'Int' but got 'Failure'␤ in any return_error at src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:639␤ in sub f at /tmp/fvgswF03l8:1␤ in block…»
FROGGS m: sub f returns Int { fail "a" }; f()
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«Earlier failure:␤ a␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/mEED5q4MyN:1␤␤Final error:␤ Type check failed for return value; expected 'Int' but got 'Failure'␤ in any return_error at src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp:639␤ in sub f at /tmp/mEED5q4MyN:1␤ in block…»
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psch i think those examples should all go through p6typecheckrv 11:12
i'll give it a try and see what roast says
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andreoss use ...::from<java> is intended to be perl6-jvm's only? 12:19
psch andreoss: exactly, moar can't interpret jvm bytecode 12:20
nine Unless someone writes some Inline::Java for Perl 6 12:21
Ulti psch well in theory it could instead do something like Inline::Perl5 for the JVM when on moar
psch oh, yes, that's probably true 12:22
Ulti or even just talk to rakudo on the JVM to do it :) 12:23
psch i brought the latter possibility up somewhen in the past, iirc
Ulti like you could probably cross EVAL?
psch i.e. "if r-m encounters :from<Java> and we have r-j installed should we do something RPC-ish?"
i don't remember what the reply was 12:24
in any case, jvminterop is still somewhat lackluster
Ulti I guess the point is really why would you bother
you can just run on the JVM implementation
psch well, with lexical use i can imagine use cases that want moar (i.e. "fast") most of the time and only fall back on jvm if absolutely neccessary 12:25
but that should probably more be motivation to make r-j faster... :s
nine If you want to split your application between moar and the jvm, you can easily implement it with some IPC mechanism (probably some RESTy thing nowadays) 12:26
psch oh, yes, IPC not RPC 12:27
RPC is one way of doing IPC 12:28
psch makes a note 12:29
nine Since we're talking Java here, it should probably be XMLRPC ;) 12:30
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[Coke] **, #Perl6 12:33
andreoss j: say 1
camelia rakudo-jvm d6430c: OUTPUT«1␤»
andreoss j: use java::lang::String:from<Java>; my String $x .= new; say $x.perl; 12:34
camelia rakudo-jvm d6430c: OUTPUT«Method 'dispatch:<.=>' not found for invocant of class 'java.lang.String'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/89KMTsRmbQ:1␤␤»
psch j: use java::lang::System:from<Java>; System.println("works")
camelia rakudo-jvm d6430c: OUTPUT«Method 'println' not found for invocant of class 'java.lang.System'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/BRLJeM6enn:1␤␤»
psch ah shucks
andreoss j: use java::lang::String:from<Java>; my String $x ; say $x.^methods;
camelia rakudo-jvm d6430c: OUTPUT«Method 'parents' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::JavaHOW'␤ in any methods at gen/jvm/Metamodel.nqp:466␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/XTVBraDBL8:1␤␤»
psch j: use java::lang::System:from<Java>; System.get_out.println("works")
camelia rakudo-jvm d6430c: OUTPUT«works␤»
psch andreoss: it's *really* bare bones at the moment
as in, most of the MOP stuff is missing
andreoss: the working stuff is pretty much only what you can find in t/03-jvm/01-interop.t in the rakudo directory 12:35
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andreoss are there plans for December release for JVM interop? 12:37
psch i'm poking at it when i feel competent, which has been rare the last few weeks, but i wouldn't rely on it 12:38
especially considering it's not really a Perl 6 thing, but a Rakudo thing
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andreoss psch:thanks 12:39
[Coke] JVM is not mandatory for December, no. 12:45
nine [Coke]: regarding your p5helper.dylib issue. I'm somewhat at a loss, since I cannot test this myself. Does perl6 configure.pl6 give you any clue? 12:46
[Coke] nine - I'm installing via panda. any idea how to get that from a panda session? 12:50
if not, I'll try to build it by hand.
nine [Coke]: sorry, no idea.
Installing manually might give us valuable hints anyway 12:51
[Coke] nine: configure fails miserably.
Perl v5.18.0 required--this is only v5.16.3, stopped at -e line 1.
I wonder why panda doesn't fail there. 12:52
nine Panda does not run configure.pl6 but only what's in Build.pm
[Coke] um. 12:53
nine I only noticed this morning that Build.pm is missing the Perl 5 version check and added it.
[Coke] not pushed yet?
I just ran Build.pm and it succeeded. 12:54
nine [Coke]: pushed it as commit a1c1d93b4dfaeeb3150a8f2f622cd7f091d0923d
[Coke]: how did you run Build.pm's build method?
[Coke] incorrectly? Let me try via panda. 12:55
yup, much better. thank you. 12:56
nine I really should try to figure out this ppport.h thing. Should make it possible to support older perls. 12:57
[Coke] is the perl you have in your path the perl that used at runtime? or is it whatever perl is in your path then?
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nine At runtime it should use the libperl of the perl found in $PATH during configure/Build time 12:59
[Coke] perl6 -e 'use Inline::Perl5; my $p5 = Inline::Perl5.new(); $p5.run("print 3333");' 13:02
^^ should that print something?
ah, I probably want print $p5.run("3333"); 13:03
but where does the output from .run go?
nine A definite maybe.
[ptc] domidumont: ping 13:04
nine It should, but output buffering may be a problem. Try $p5.run(q{print "3333\n"});
[Coke] nine: works
hoelzro good morning, #perl6 13:09
[ptc] hoelzro: o/
hoelzro o/ [ptc]
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PerlJam good morning 13:21
hoelzro morning PerlJam 13:22
PerlJam hoelzro: What's new in your world? 13:24
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hoelzro PerlJam: giving a Perl 6 talk in Milwaukee on Thursday, and banging my head against a wall on RT #125407 13:24
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=125407
hoelzro yourself?
PerlJam still recovering from helping my wife with an annual gymnastics competition. (my first time not being in the audience) 13:25
psch hoelzro: i looked at AST dumps from those examples, and it's just weird :s
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hoelzro PerlJam: does your wife compete, or was she there to help things along? 13:26
psch: yes, indeed
my research has lead me into the far-off land of EXPR 13:27
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PerlJam hoelzro: She's the director of the local organization (Sokol). Every year they do it at a different location in Texas. This year it was here. 13:27
hoelzro ah, ok 13:28
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PerlJam RT #125407 is a weird one 13:29
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=125407
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psch the obvious assumption is that some prec state gets carried over into the next statement in the wrong case 13:33
but i think that'd be in EXPR, and... :S
domidumont [ptc]: yes ? 13:40
hoelzro psch: that's where I'm looking right now 13:41
and digging into it, and the notion that there may be a bug lurking in there, disturbs me 13:42
psch hoelzro: yeah, i saw that, belatedly. i have no idea how to make sense of EXPR, i'll readily admit...
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isBEKaml p: my @a = <1 2 3>; all(@a) > 5; none(@a) > 5; 13:48
m: my @a = <1 2 3>; all(@a) > 5; none(@a) > 5;
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of ">" in expression "all(@a) > 5" in sink context (line 1)␤»
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isBEKaml m: my @a = <1 2 3>; say all(@a) > 5; say none(@a) > 5; 13:49
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«all(False, False, False)␤none(False, False, False)␤»
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[ptc] domidumont: I just wanted to ask a question regarding rpath overrides and lintian, however I think I worked it out 13:52
domidumont: I just updated moarvm so that it builds for version 2015.05
domidumont [ptc]: ok, cool
[ptc] domidumont: nqp 2015.05 should be on its way sometime soon as well 13:53
domidumont [ptc]: are you working in sync with Daniel ? (I'd rather avoid duplicated work)
[ptc] domidumont: not as far as I know... I'd like to avoid duplicated work as well 13:54
domidumont: my plan was to send an email to the list letting everyone know about the updates
domidumont: is he in this irc channel? 13:55
domidumont [ptc]: yes as nebuchadnezzar
[ptc] domidumont: ok, thanks
13:56 brrt left
domidumont goes back to angularjs :-/ 13:56
[ptc] domidumont: he'd already updated the source to the upstream 2015.05 version, I just patched the things which needed patching in order to get debuild to work 13:57
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domidumont [ptc]: no problem. 14:00
[ptc] .tell nebuchadnezzar I've patched the files in the moarvm package so that debuild builds correctly, and pushed the changes to alioth. Just wanted to let you know :-) 14:03
yoleaux [ptc]: I'll pass your message to nebuchadnezzar.
colomon [ptc]++ 14:05
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smls jnthn or timotimo: Does github.com/perl6/gtk-simple/pull/11 look alright? 14:13
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dalek k-simple: e55d10c | smls++ | lib/GTK/Simple.pm6:
Provide a 'spacing' property for GTK::Simple::Box

This is analogous to the 'border_width' property of GTK::Simple::Container.		 14:14
k-simple: 09a6cac | smls++ | lib/GTK/Simple.pm6:
Allow setting the 'text' property in GTK::Simple::Entry.new

GTK::Simple::Label.new(text => 'foo') works, so GTK::Simple::Entry.new(text => 'foo') should too.
k-simple: f9fbfb9 | timo++ | lib/GTK/Simple.pm6:
Merge pull request #11 from smls/master

two small additions
tadzik timotimo++ standing guard
smls thanks :)
tadzik smls++
smls Oh, and in case someone is looking for an array munging benchmark with *lots* of room for Rakudo improval: rosettacode.org/wiki/Perfect_shuffle#Perl_6 14:15
^^ takes 1.1 seconds in Perl 5, but over 14 minutes in Rakudo 14:16
s/improval/improvement/ # my brain is weird :P 14:20
timotimo yw 14:22
smls: run a profile please? :) 14:23
smls how? never done it before :)
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timotimo perl6 --profile foobar.p6 14:23
smls ok
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dalek osystem: 53cea7c | RabidGravy++ | META.list:
Add Audio::Sndfile
 14:24
RabidGravy there
that took longer than I expected
tadzik oh :)
RabidGravy not particularly useful just at the moment unless you're into generating your own sounds or writing a convertor 14:26
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smls RabidGravy: nice 14:32
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timotimo i'd be very interested to see what exactly makes that perfect shuffle thing slow 14:34
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timotimo i think i'd say it's Z 14:34
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PerlJam I was guessing it's all the copying of those array elements. 14:34
timotimo hmm 14:35
smls The [<] @deck probably doen't short-circuit, but replacing it with @deck eqv @original doesn't make much of a difference in performance so I kept it. 14:36
timotimo huh, it could learn to short-circuit if it can't already
< is a simple chain op
and those are always and-ed together, so METAOP_REDUCE could very well learn about it 14:37
bbiab
smls but the [] reduce-metaop does not preserve short-circuiting behavior
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smls according tio the specs 14:37
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moritz I guess it can't presevere the short-circuiting of thunking ops like && and || 14:40
and that's what the specs mean
but [<] is free abort on first False 14:41
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smls ah, makes sense 14:41
timotimo: gist.githubusercontent.com/smls/76...rofile.htm 14:42
moritz is building funny pipeline DAGs with gocd
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timotimo smls: 404 :( 14:56
oh, wait
moritz moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/perfect_shuf...ofile.html # rendered as actual HTML 14:58
timotimo smls: using "div" instead of / for the mid point can remove the tiny bit of time spent working with rational numbers 14:59
moritz but the big time sink is list iteration, again :(
timotimo oh how surprising ... the top allocated thing is Scalar, the top allocators are gimme, reify, REIFY and an <anon> that's just reify again 15:00
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timotimo and for some reason we are hitting the slow path binder :\ 15:00
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timotimo i'd love to see a version that just allocates an appropriately sized list and throws the values into it from the source array, just to see how many orders of magnitude that's faster 15:04
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timotimo holy wat 15:09
oh, lazyness strikes again
we spend 30.6% of time inside perfect-shuffle and 68% in STORE (just looking at the frame for the loop that calls perfect-shuffle) 15:10
but that's just because perfect-shuffle gets to defer a bunch of work to reifying the list 15:11
psch $ ./perl6-j -e'our Int sub f { fail "a" }; say f() ~~ Failure'
True
...that took longer than expected :s
now how do i do that on moar..?
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moritz wait, what? 15:11
psch moritz: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-06-16#i_10756235 15:12
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moritz not convinced that is workable 15:14
if we optimize based on the type, we can't allow exceptions
timotimo we are good at deopting
at least for dynamic optimizations
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psch well, i've patched it as written in the clog, as the last check in p6typecheckrv 15:16
e.g. after the "is it maybe unboxable" 15:17
smls timotimo: What do you mean by "just allocates an appropriately sized list and throws the values into it from the source array"?
psch so dynopts should've already happened before we end up there anyway, or not?
timotimo do the Z yourself
psch: i'm not sure we do any optimizations based on the defined return value of a sub at the moment 15:18
smls ah, like the Perl 5 version?
timotimo oh
i didn't know the perl 5 version did it like that
smls "map { @_[$_, $_ + $mid] } 0..($mid - 1);"
nebuchadnezzar [ptc]: thanks, FROGGS made some patches too, maybe the same? 15:19
yoleaux 14:03Z <[ptc]> nebuchadnezzar: I've patched the files in the moarvm package so that debuild builds correctly, and pushed the changes to alioth. Just wanted to let you know :-)
psch timotimo: we have "optimize_p6typecheckrv" in Optimizer.nqp, but that seems to not do particularly much
timotimo also, i wonder what happens if you @deck := perfect-shuffle @deck
psch lines 1183ff
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timotimo psch: i'd guess that just possibly throws out the type check if the thing we're returning is already proven to be of the right type 15:19
[ptc] nebuchadnezzar: I only made patches to the debian package. 15:20
nebuchadnezzar: I'm guessing FROGGS made patches to MoarVM itself?
psch timotimo: yeah, that interpretation makes sense...
TimToady I did a few stats on the dynvar caching last night, and discovered what I expected, that we're kinda overwhelming the 1-per-frame cache, according to gist.github.com/TimToady/fe858b303f9d033365d9 15:22
when I last worked on that cache, I got it tuned to about 5 frames average, but most of the symbols average quite a bit more than that now 15:23
and we're traversing 11 million frames to look up $*ACTIONS
so we really need that better cache we discussed a few weeks ago 15:24
smls timotimo: Interestingly, .map({ @deck[$_, $_ + $mid] }) seems to be significantly slower than map({ @deck[$_], @deck[$_ + $mid] }) 15:25
TimToady $*MAST_FRAME is averaging 34 frames per lookup
nebuchadnezzar [ptc]: yes, and provide gists to add debian patches if I understand correctly 15:26
timotimo smls: doesn't surprise me terribly much, to be honest :(
smls timotimo: := instead of = seems to help a little, too.
timotimo smls: i wonder how well we're doing with regards to lazyness when we use := there
hm. well, we'll pretty much always grab the very first element and the first one after the middle 15:27
because we start comparing the first and second element every time
so lazyness doesn't help us terribly much there
anyway, gotta be afk for a bit
TimToady oh, those dynvar stats were from compiling the setting 15:32
FROGGS [ptc]: I patched MoarVM for GNU/kFreeBSD and provided a patch for libuv
dalek line-Perl5: 0064616 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | README.md:
Add some hints on where to obtain a libperl.so on Debian and Fedora

Some Linux distributions seem to split perl into multiple packages. Thanks to Benjamin Tietze for the suggestion.		 15:33
RabidGravy psch, I sent a quick PR for Audio::PortAudio - but it seems it also tickles something related to #125408 15:34
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=125408
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japhb .tell [ptc] Oh, I wasn't complaining about the general set of is-approx patches (dealing with very large or small numbers well is important to the use case), I was specifically saying that that particular commit seemed to have a couple bugs in it. 15:47
yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to [ptc].
japhb .tell smls La la la la, please make that a github.com/japhb/perl6-bench minibenchmark ... # re: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-06-16#i_10757135 15:50
yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to smls.
15:50 FROGGS left
japhb
.oO( Might as well sing it, it feels like the chorus of my #perl6 song at this point )
 15:51
psch RabidGravy: line 68 in which file tickles the bug?
RabidGravy in the test.pl
psch ah
hm, native nums :/ 15:52
smls japhb: I'll look into that :P
RabidGravy it's something to do with assigning to an item in a NumTypedCArray under some circumstance
psch the underrun is most likely performance in generating data or iteration or something
i.e. should get better eventually
i think i prefill the data, so it should be just iteration
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psch consider with 44100hz we have that many values per second to deliver to the audio device 15:53
RabidGravy oh for sure 15:54
psch but idk, i do know that i had plenty of underruns too, pretty much constantly
the thing with jvminterop that i started used an osc written in java... 15:55
and even that dropped frames occassionally
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psch RabidGravy: i've added you as a collaborator 16:03
to that repo
'cause that's probably the way forward if it's supposed to go into the ecosystem, as i'm kinda at capacity with the jvm things i want to do
with the underrun issue i'm reminded that i wanted to try offline rendering, though 16:04
hm, the Failure patch from above gives me a TODO passed in S02-types/native.t..? o.O 16:06
and 10 failures across a few files, 3 of those in S17 16:07
RabidGravy sounds like a plan, I might test it out with some input from a file
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psch heh 16:09
a failure in S02-types/deprecations.t
expected version, name
got name, version"
...paraphrased
m: my num32 $x; say $x 16:11
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«0␤»
psch m: my num64 $x; say $x
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
psch j: my num32 $x; say $x
camelia ( no output )
psch j: my num64 $x; say $x 16:12
camelia rakudo-jvm d6430c: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
psch num32 works with my patch for RT #64990...
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...l?id=64990
psch but further FAILs look like they need more attention than i have right now 16:13
bbl o/
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RabidGravy if one has a Signature object in hand, what can you do with it? 16:38
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[ptc] japhb: do you think the implementation as it currently stands is sound? 16:42
yoleaux 15:47Z <japhb> [ptc]: Oh, I wasn't complaining about the general set of is-approx patches (dealing with very large or small numbers well is important to the use case), I was specifically saying that that particular commit seemed to have a couple bugs in it.
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skids m: Signature.^methods.say; say Signature.^attributes.map: *.name # RabidGravy 16:50
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«<anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> arity count params returns ACCEPTS perl gist␤$!params $!returns $!arity $!count $!code␤»
[ptc] nebuchadnezzar: sorry if I trampled on anyone's work. I basically assumed that since there were no new commits to the Alioth repos that I could go ahead and update the MoarVM and nqp projects 16:51
skids psch: Some of the num32 behavior is irclog.perlgeek.de/p​erl6/2015-06-13#i_10746333 and RT#124084 16:58
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=124084
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masak getting RT tickets from Zefram is like being knocked unconscious by a bottle of really fine champagne. 17:12
(hi #perl6)
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psch skids: the clog bit doesn't seem particularly related, but the ticket is exactly what seems fixed by my change 17:14
skids: i just have no clue *why* my change would fix it... :)
skids Which change?
psch a fix for RT #64990 17:15
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...l?id=64990
psch i.e. let Failure always match return type constraints of subs
so it doesn't blow up with TypeCheck::Return
skids Right, but is the patch anywhere viewable yet?
japhb .tell [ptc] Your calculation for the implementation which takes a $tol parameter (the second one) will always fail if $expected == 0 and $tol < 1, because then $abs-diff == $abs-max == $got and $rel-diff == 1. 17:16
yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to [ptc].
psch the change does seem to break something with passing the Junction type into subs, which i'll look at next...
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skids And does it fix my num32 = 3e0 for example? 17:16
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psch $ ./perl6 -e'my num32 $x; my num32 $y = 3e0; say $x ~ " " ~ $y' 17:17
NaN 3
that's -j, btw
dunno if the bug exists on moar
jnthn Sized integer types in lexicals are barely implemented in Moar 17:18
skids m: my num32 $x = 3e0; $x.say
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«0␤»
jnthn In fact, we generated invalid code for them that the verifier should probably be rejected.
*rejecting
psch j: my num32 $x = 3e0; $x.say
camelia rakudo-jvm d6430c: OUTPUT«3␤»
psch the NaN bit is broken on camelia iirc
j: my num32 $x; say $x
camelia rakudo-jvm d6430c: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
psch eh
nevermind then :P
must've been seeing things :) 17:19
japhb .tell [ptc] The implementation which takes a :$rel_tol and :$abs_tol (the third one) allows *either* tolerance to succeed, and there doesn't seem to be a way to require both; that may or may not matter. Also, using Numeric for the tolerances leaves me wondering about the exact behavior if the tolerances are Complex instead of Real.
yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to [ptc].
psch jnthn: Moar verifier?
jnthn psch: MoarVM's bytecode verifier
I suspect it's too lax somewhere 17:20
psch ah, okay
japhb psch: Moar has a bytecode verifier that makes sure the bytecode is sane enough to even try executing.
jnthn "num32...num64...what's that between friends" :)
It does the same with the sized int types, but you get away with it on LE :P
psch well, that explains the TODO passed i get in S02-types/native.t — it's not fudged for only moar even though it should be, 'cause jvm seems to do it right 17:21
skids Yes that was added very recently. 17:22
psch aside from that i get 3 FAILs that could be said to be wrong tests, because they expect TypeCheck::Return instead of DivideByZero
on FAIL that's expecting order where there isn't any to be expected
and flappers and java-version-dependent TODO passed 17:23
and one test that definitely isn't working right anymore so i'd have to look at that
cognominal flappers?
psch S17 FAIL that go away when the file is ran standalone
unicode being dependent on jvm version is kind of iffy i feel sometimes 17:24
jnthn I really dislike the whole "Failure sneaks through" thing 17:25
psch jnthn: it was a ticket, i just tried to make it work as expected from the ticket... :s
jnthn I suspect the optimizer will need a look over.
psch: I wasn't saying "Failure sneaks through" isn't the Perl 6 design, just that I think it's bad design. :) 17:26
I feel the same about Nil, though.
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jnthn (which needs special handling on assignment) 17:27
skids The alternative is the user has to catch thrown exceptions and turn them soft, if that's the desired behavior.
jnthn If we are going to not be able to rely on return types, though, then we may want to consider dropping our compile-time signature analysis just to consider natively typed things. 17:28
skids I see the design as sort of "NaN for OO"
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psch i'll admit i don't see all the implications 17:29
for me it's mostly confusing to see TypeCheck::Return when fail()ing from a sub 17:30
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jnthn sub foo(Int $x) { ... }; sub bar() returns Int { ... }; foo(bar()) # can't compile-time dispatch foo 17:30
But I think we may well have code that tries to do so today in the optimizer; if so, that may be the source of some failures. 17:32
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psch the FAIL i have that looks most related is in S03-junctions/misc.t 17:32
'sub foo($) { }; foo(Junction)' 17:33
throws AdHoc instead of TypeCheck::Binding
with null for varName in the Binder
line 364 in Binder.java
skids An argument could be made for "compile-time-dispatch anyway and let the Failure blow up inside foo() at runtime" 17:34
jnthn skids: It may actually *not* blow up 17:35
skids (For implicitly |Failures on the constraint, but not for returns Failure)
jnthn Because when we compile-time inline we lose the constraints. :)
That's part of the point of doing it. 17:36
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skids When inlined the part of bar that returns the failure would count as a use of the failure (for the multidipatch) and should then explode, no? 17:37
jnthn skids: We'd not inline something that calls fail(...) anyway at the moment; it's the inlining of foo that is at issue 17:38
(we toss any signature checks when inlining because we "proved" they aren't needed) 17:39
The issue is that we simply can't rely on the "returns" to provide useful type information for the optimizer for the non-native case when a Failure may also be returned. 17:40
skids So you'd have inlined foo with a call to bar which could return a Failure where you think you have an Int.
jnthn Right
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skids My immediate reaction is that bar() should have beenrewritten into sepearate entry points one of which returns failures, the other of which where any return fail raises exceptions. 17:42
jnthn That's too much work to be bothered with in the static optimizer. 17:43
It has no stats on if it's work is even worthwhile.
skids sorta like us humans? :-) 17:44
jnthn Indeed :P
Anyway, we mostly want to stick to simple trnasforms there
(Like unpicking simple Junctions)
Along with inlining natives
And tbh, now we know how spesh and indy look, I think maybe we can just leave compile-time inlining explicitly for natives. 17:45
So maybe I should stop worrying, simplify Perl6::Optimizer, and be happy. :) 17:46
(At the time I wrote the analyses in question, we were targeting Parrot, which has nothing like spesh/indy.) 17:48
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jnthn psch: src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp:1865 and :1952 are the lines that'd need guarding for native types only, fwiw 17:52
psch jnthn: alright, i'll take a note of that
first gotta figure out that test failure and port my changes to moar too 17:53
jnthn psch: To port to Moar you probably want to look in src/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp or src/moar/ops/perl6_ops.c
psch yeah, i think the former 17:54
i think i saw p6typecheckrv there
jnthn *nod*
dinner & 17:58
dalek rl6-roast-data: b96151f | coke++ | / (9 files):
today (automated commit)
 18:08
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ab5tract hmm.. searching doc.perl6.org for '>>' returns only a link to regex 18:12
are we missing docs for hyper ops?
I also couldn't find docs on [&infix]
colomon ab5tract: did you try looking for » ?
ab5tract colomon: that one returns docs for Quote as well ;) 18:13
(I also couldn't remember/unpack what the [&infix] form of [] would be called. 'circumfix:<[ ]>' makes the most sense. is it implemented as a multi, with one for &infix behavior and one for creating Arrays? 18:14
psch [&infix] is META_REDUCE in Grammar.nqp iirc 18:16
i.e. [+] @ints
ab5tract psch: right, that's the one. 18:17
psch so the "Reduction Meta-Operator" i suppose
eh, maybe not
Z and X are listed as reduction operators in the design
ab5tract psch: thanks for digging : 18:18
psch hm, no, i misinterpreted skimming of the google summary of S03 :P
ab5tract :) 18:19
heh
psch S03:Reduction_operators
synbot6 Link: design.perl6.org/S03.html#Reduction_operators
ab5tract is writing a proposal YAPC::EU
*for YAPC::EU 18:20
tentative title: 'Whatever, or How I Stopped Fearing and Fell in Love with this Op' 18:26
[Coke] I'm pretty happy that we have a p5er dealing with the stuff on the language list. :) 18:29
colomon [Coke]: you mean the uninformed trolling on the language list? ;) 18:30
[Coke] aristotle++
Everyone who wants to respond to those, take a deep breath. :)
ab5tract [Coke]: is there a list archive available?
colomon aristotle++ indeed 18:31
ab5tract: trust me, it is not worth reading.
ab5tract well, the language list might be
colomon ab5tract: actually, the language list in general has very rarely been worth reading in the last 7 years. 18:32
ab5tract ok
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smls timotimo: gist.github.com/smls/a1f6033c142202bddc4d <-- full report on the 'Perfect Shuffle' thing :P 18:36
turns out the line zipping the half-lists is indeed responsible for most of the run time 18:38
colomon ab5tract: the archive is www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6.language/ but seriously, the list basically functions as a honeypot for people who have Very Important Ideas about language design, but can’t be bothered to figure out real discussion occurs on #perl6 18:40
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ab5tract colomon: gotcha 18:43
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skids smls: I had noticed that "for @a Z @b" was a major slowdown in Sum as well. 18:49
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dagurval any way to represent an array in struct with NativeCall? For example struct a { int b[256]; int i; } 18:51
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ugexe maybe something like this untested class Foo is repr('CStruct') { has CArray[OpaquePointer] $.b; has int $.i; } 18:59
RabidGravy CArray[int32] even
if its expect to be a particular size then you need to assign a new one to it 19:02
then $foo.b[255] = 0;
timotimo smls: it's missing one variant i'm missing 19:04
smls ?
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timotimo something like my @result = 0 xx +@deck; loop (...) { @result[$foo] = @deck[$bar]; @result[$foo + 1] = @deck[$baz] } 19:04
smls ah, ok 19:05
hoelzro ab5tract: I, for one, would like to see the language list be a more interesting and better place
then again, I myself barely post there =/
RabidGravy I think I subscribed to it for afew months in 2001-2 19:06
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timotimo smls: and also using div instead of / for division 19:06
hoelzro should --ll-exception be enabled for building lib/*.pm in rakudo?
smls ok
hoelzro that way, if it fails, it's one fewer step to finding out why 19:07
timotimo hoelzro: may be a good idea
smls timotimo: funny though that binding instead of asisgning to @deck actually made it slower on a full run, right?
when i tried it out on small inputs, it seemed to help
dagurval RabidGravy: thanks, I'll try that. It's the particular size issue I'm having problem figuring out 19:08
skids Not sure CArray members are supported yet. 19:13
dagurval if so, any other way to tell 'CStruct' that "here are 256 ints" (a[256]) - so I can access the data below? 19:16
pmichaud j/lastlog pmichaud 5 19:18
good afternoon, #perl6
colomon o/ 19:19
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RabidGravy yeah, that may not work actually 19:22
m: use NativeCall; class Foo is repr("CStruct") { has CArray[int32] $.b is rw }; my $b = Foo.new; $b.b = CArray[int32].new;
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable IntTypedCArray[int32]␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ZKlPu4ia2V:1␤␤»
skids dagurval: maybe point an OpaquePointer and use nativecast? 19:24
You'll have to do your own memory mgmt on the data separate from the CStruct.
[Coke] I would love to see attributes have an "is required" that throws a typed exception. (instead of handrolling your own required die closure) 19:27
... heh. ovid has it on a slide. Yes, that thing. 19:30
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dagurval skids: I don't see how, but I'll look into it. 19:35
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timotimo dagurval: we want to have that at some point, but we don't have it yet :( 19:41
dagurval timotimo: ok - I'll work with what we have :-). 19:43
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timotimo sorry about that :( 19:44
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smls_ timotimo: gist updated. 19:48
timotimo yeah, i expected it to be a whole lot faster 19:50
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timotimo it's quite surprising to me that the difference between intmath and rats is so big 19:51
but i suppose we keep the rat around and then turn it into an int over and over and over again 19:52
smls_ well, it does do one addition on that value per iteration of the innermost loop
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timotimo right 19:59
addition on a rat has a multiplication inside it
masak that's because rats as a concept have a multiplication in them :) 20:02
brrt btw, are FatRats already implemented 20:04
colomon yes 20:05
masak m: FatRat; say "yes"
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«yes␤»
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colomon m: say 1/3.FatRat ** 1000000 20:06
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
colomon m: say (1/3.FatRat ** 1000000).perl
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 20:07
colomon oh
RabidGravy not ideal
brrt why... does that break 20:08
oh
there's a **
no wonder
colomon may have gotten carried away wit hthe size of the **
brrt m: say (1/3.FatRat ** 10);
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«0.000017␤»
colomon m: say 1 / (3 ** 500).FatRat 20:09
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«0.000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000028␤»
colomon m: say (1 / (3 ** 500).FatRat).perl
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«FatRat.new(1, 36360291795869936842385267079543319118023385026001623040346035832580600191583895484198508262979388783308179702534403855752855931517013066142992430916562025780021771247847643450125342836565813209972590371590152578728008385990139795377610001)␤»
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smls_ timotimo: updated again. Turning the per-iteration addition from int+Int to int+int helped quite a bit more, and binding is suddenly beneficial again :) 20:16
RabidGravy I'm looking at a native API that has twenty+ pairs of get_/set_ functions is it sane to fake up 20 "attributes" with Proxy? like "method foo() is rw returns Str { Proxy.new( FETCH => sub ($) { get_foo(self) }, STORE => sub ($, $foo ) { set_foo(self, $foo) }} ..." ? 20:18
smls_ Do you think Rakudo will ever become smart enough to run the naive implementation (810 sec) as fast as the optimized one (19 sec)?
RabidGravy: Why not? 20:19
GTK::Simple does it 20:20
psch i'm planning to do something similar for jvminterop, fwiw
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psch although the problem of the get_/set_ methods come from the jvm in that case 20:20
or maybe from how we generate the interop classes
so that's another "why not?" 20:21
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RabidGravy works nicely, just feels like I should be able to factor it more tidily 20:22
PerlJam RabidGravy: or just have perl generate the 20 attrs directly
smls_ PerlJam: but how would you hook them up to the native library's getters/setters?
vendethiel mmh, what's the report channel on freenode? 20:23
RabidGravy I may get bored typing it and work out a way of generating them magically
smls_ :P
psch yeah, i'm hoping to get that into the JavaHOW for jvminterop 20:24
like, RakudoJavaInterop.java generates those get_/set_ methods
and the JavaHOW builds attributes for every one of those
but i have no solid idea how that'll work and it's a bit further down on my list too... :) 20:25
the most noteable problem there seems to be that i have to pull the JavaHOW into Perl 6 land, instead of having it in NQP land
but there it should be easy enough, i think 20:26
and NativeCall is already Perl 6 land so you should be fine :P
i have a feeling that a trait_mod could do it somewhat cleanly, but it's a bit knee-jerky, that feeling 20:27
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RabidGravy yeah, apply a role to the Method the makes a CALL-ME with the boilerplate, passing the subs as the trait args 20:30
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skids
.oO("is required" ... "has $.foo!" maybe?)
 20:31
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smls_ m: y @x := [\*] 1..*; say @x[^10] 20:59
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/E56AlQLdXY␤Unsupported use of y///; in Perl 6 please use tr///␤at /tmp/E56AlQLdXY:1␤------> 3y7⏏5 @x := [\*] 1..*; say @x[^10]␤»
smls_ m: @x := [\*] 1..*; say @x[^10] 21:00
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Ghl4_aGxp3␤Variable '@x' is not declared␤at /tmp/Ghl4_aGxp3:1␤------> 3<BOL>7⏏5@x := [\*] 1..*; say @x[^10]␤»
smls_ m: my @x := [\*] 1..*; say @x[^10]
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«1 2 6 24 120 720 5040 40320 362880 3628800␤»
smls_ m: my @x := 1, [\*] 1..*; say @x[^10]
camelia rakudo-moar d6430c: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 16384 bytes␤»
smls_ ^^ so the comma operator forces eagerness?
then how can I concatenate a lazy list to the end of a literal list? 21:01
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[Coke] the yapc::na videos audio & video are not in sync, it seems. 21:04
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[Coke] had problems with both ovid++'s and util++'s . :( 21:05
vendethiel [Coke]: really? util++'s was good for me when I watched it
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smls_ Strange... after moar was killed by the kernel for running out of memory, I can no longer run perl6 21:18
"error while loading shared libraries: .../lib/libmoar.so: unexpected PLT reloc type 0xa0331a29"
timotimo smls_: there's a method called "plan" that's used to append a lazy list to another 21:19
or elements to a lazy list
without eagerifying the list
smls_ ok 21:20
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smls_ I wonder if TimToady's/pmichaud's hypothetical list concatenation operation will be able to handle this as well... 21:24
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timotimo quite possible 21:30
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masak I read an unusually nice autopun the other day. 21:39
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masak so, there's this planet full of individuals who strongly believe in anti-induction. 21:39
the sun has risen every morning in living memory, so (they believe) it's *not* at all likely to rise tomorrow. 21:40
understandably, everyone on this planet is very bad at dealing with reality. they are all quite miserable. 21:41
a visiting xenoanthropologist asks "but... why? why do you keep believing in anti-induction? it's obviously the source of all your trouble, so why?"
they say "well, it's never worked before..."
smls_ ;) 21:42
masak paraphrased from www.scottaaronson.com/democritus/lec15.html -- which read, by the way. 21:43
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masak 'night, #perl6 21:48
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RabidGravy nighty night 21:58
nebuchadnezzar [ptc]: I just include FROGGS[mobile] patches in MoarVM, maybe you could present yourself on the pkg-rakudo mailing list? 22:00
I'm testing a build before pushing 22:01
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nebuchadnezzar .tell [ptc] Ok, now I figure out you are Paul Cochrane, I revert your patch on Configure.pl since it's forbidden to modify upstream directly and you arleady provided a patch for this 22:39
yoleaux nebuchadnezzar: I'll pass your message to [ptc].
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