»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by masak on 12 May 2015.
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japhb_ nick japhb 00:50
japhb blurfle 00:51
yoleaux 14 Sep 2015 17:36Z <tony-o> japhb: because the META.json was broken
japhb timotimo: Have you pushed your perl6-bench changes?
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skids Stage parse : 41.176 (slowly crept up from 30ish pre-GLR, but hopefully that's just because it is doing a better job :-) 01:08
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AlexDaniel . 01:12
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ShimmerFairy skids: went from 104-ish to 115-ish for me; note that there are more files that make up CORE post-GLR, if I'm not mistaken :) 01:18
ShimmerFairy should perhaps consider upgrading her CPU sometime :P
skids Yeah, more code these days.
This is a relativey new lt with an SSD. 01:19
(thanks, $DAYJOB)
ShimmerFairy skids: I have HDDs (more space for much cheaper, and a bit of a nostalgic bent to be fair :P), and an Athlon X2 CPU. 01:21
skids: at least I'm not compiling rakudo-p on a G3 Powerbook (with linux installed, of course) anymore :P
tokuhiro_ is there a perl5's `my $app = do $filename` equivalent in perl6? 01:25
ShimmerFairy I'm not sure what that line does, but we do in fact have do { ... } (not sure if it'll do what you want, though)
tokuhiro_: looking at perldoc, I'm guessing you're expecting the second case listed, which if I understand correctly would be EVALFILE in P6 01:28
so my $app = EVALFILE($filename) , most likely
tokuhiro_ ShimmerFairy: thanks! EVALFILE was what i wanted! 01:29
ShimmerFairy tokuhiro_: glad I could help :) And in case you don't know/didn't guess, P5's "eval" is spelled "EVAL" in Perl 6 (to make it stand out more, since it is kinda a special thing to be doing) 01:30
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grondilu my attempt at parallelizing the sum of numbers: 02:07
sub sum(@a) { [+] await @a.rotor(+@a div 4, :partial).map(-> $a { start { [+] @$a } }) }; say sum rand xx 100_000;
it's actually much slower 02:08
BenGoldberg m: say [+] rand xx 100_000; 02:09
camelia rakudo-moar b3a772: OUTPUT«49890.2559994881␤»
BenGoldberg m: say [+] rand xx 100_000 for 1..10;
camelia rakudo-moar b3a772: OUTPUT«50014.9002982538␤49985.757855625␤50068.7320578887␤49895.3369435958␤50031.6400553055␤49905.676195838␤49772.3432185231␤50062.2356501596␤49910.1236297258␤49922.6322905629␤»
BenGoldberg m: sub sum(@a) { [+] await @a.rotor(+@a div 4, :partial).map(-> $a { start { [+] @$a } }) }; say sum rand xx 100_000;
camelia rakudo-moar b3a772: OUTPUT«49975.8131482832␤» 02:10
grondilu m: sub sum(@a) { [+] await @a.rotor(+@a div 4, :partial).map(-> $a { start { [+] @$a } }) }; say sum rand xx 100_000; say now - INIT now 02:11
camelia rakudo-moar b3a772: OUTPUT«50088.4186879697␤4.2388345␤»
grondilu m: say [+] rand xx 100_000; say now - INIT now
camelia rakudo-moar b3a772: OUTPUT«49955.8728328982␤0.89295784␤»
BenGoldberg m: say [+] rand xx 100_0000; say now - INIT now 02:17
camelia rakudo-moar b3a772: OUTPUT«500149.268126398␤7.64512675␤»
BenGoldberg m: sub sum(@a) { [+] await @a.rotor(+@a div 4, :partial).map(-> $a { start { [+] @$a } }) }; say sum rand xx 100_0000; say now - INIT now
camelia rakudo-moar b3a772: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 02:18
BenGoldberg m: sub sum(@a) { [+] await @a.rotor(+@a div 4, :partial).map(-> $a { start { 42 }) }; say sum rand xx 100_0000; say now - INIT now 02:19
camelia rakudo-moar b3a772: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/LWMzaawboD␤Missing block␤at /tmp/LWMzaawboD:1␤------> 3iv 4, :partial).map(-> $a { start { 42 }7⏏5) }; say sum rand xx 100_0000; say now -␤ expecting any of:␤ statement end␤ s…»
BenGoldberg m: sub sum(@a) { [+] await @a.rotor(+@a div 4, :partial).map(-> $a { start { 42 } }) }; say sum rand xx 100_0000; say now - INIT now 02:20
camelia rakudo-moar b3a772: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
BenGoldberg It's not the summation which is taking so long, since it times out even if that's ommited. 02:21
m: sub sum(@a) { [+] @a.rotor(+@a div 4, :partial).map(-> $a { 42 }) }; say sum rand xx 100_0000; say now - INIT now
camelia rakudo-moar b3a772: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 02:22
BenGoldberg m: sub sum(@a) { [+] @a }; say sum rand xx 100_0000; say now - INIT now
camelia rakudo-moar b3a772: OUTPUT«499597.953112676␤15.06744666␤»
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BenGoldberg Doing the summation inside a sub more than doubles the time taken! 02:24
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_sri wow, that fluent interfaces example makes perl6 look pretty bad en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluent_interface#Perl_6 02:41
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ShimmerFairy _sri: I suppose one might be able to write a 'is fluent' trait that you can apply to attrs which would automatically create methods for obj.name($str).age(42)... 02:49
_sri that's what i would have expected 02:50
ShimmerFairy _sri: also note that lots of these examples have to create those methods manually, so I think the P6 example is actually slightly better than the others already :)
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ShimmerFairy (I also think the given { } example is a more novel example, compared to all the others that use boring, predictable method chaining :P) 02:53
_sri aesthetically it is the worst
(imo)
ShimmerFairy I'd have to disagree on that, it doesn't look bad to me (may not be the cutest, but it's not incomprehensible line noise at least) :) 02:54
_sri that's literally what i would call the given block 02:56
incomprehensible line noise
ShimmerFairy not at all, I'm thinking along the lines of emacs' toothpick regexps when I think "line noise" :P 02:57
_sri $employee.name('Sally').surname('Ride').salary(200)
that is clean
ugexe i like it
ShimmerFairy or in other words, my definition of "line noise" is literally a line of text that's impossible to read well :)
skids The Perl6 solutio at least does not suffer from the problems listed in the "problems" section. 02:58
ShimmerFairy skids: true, there is value in keeping separate actions as separate statements. We just happen to be cool enough to still support a fluent interface for that :P 02:59
_sri i guess perl6 just isn't for me 03:01
skids ShimmerFairy: Well, it's a bit of a cheat: to make that "fluent" one would have to be able to do more than set attributes, and that could be done with proxies, but would get ugly.
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ShimmerFairy _sri: well, I'm not saying it's the only way (the page even mentions TIMTOWTDI, but not in name), I'm just countering your arguments for the sake of providing an alternate take on the example that was given :) 03:02
skids It is probably why the "set attribute and return self" question popped up earlier. 03:04
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ShimmerFairy skids: I believe the example exists because of the question, IIRC :) 03:05
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flussence the main thing wrong with that p6 example is it's demonstrating scope chaining, not fluent interface :/ 03:06
skids wonders how hard it would be to define an alternate postfix:<.>
(considering how deep it is emedded in the grammar) 03:07
_sri looks like there was a better version before en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title...313#Perl_6 03:14
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[Coke] brokemaniacsmusicbox.tumblr.com/pos...ercase-cat ... unicode is weird. 03:21
skids m: my $f = Failure.new.flat[0];
camelia rakudo-moar b3a772: OUTPUT«Failed␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/61pcO3Hzra:1␤␤»
skids methinks the .flat streamlining may have sunk something. 03:22
Ah, I know why, RT#125769. 03:31
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=125769
skids .tell jnthn 57a7f6a6 triggered RT#125769 (I think) so now $ = Failure.new.flat[0] throws. 03:34
yoleaux skids: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=125769
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dalek p: e59aa09 | hoelzro++ | .travis.yml:
Add JS to Travis build matrix
 03:49
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ugexe hoelzro: i dont think your travis config does what you think 04:44
you are sending the --backends= option twice. once under `script` and once from the matrix NQP_OPTIONS
id also be surprised if `make test` tests multiple backends when sent at once via --backends=moar,jvm,js,etc but im not sure 04:46
hoelzro ugexe: ahhh, thanks for pointing that out 04:51
dalek p: 869ccbb | hoelzro++ | .travis.yml:
Remove redundant --backends option in Travis config
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ugexe whats the purpose of --backends=js,moar when the first two NQP options do the same thing for moar 05:01
does the js backend need moar?
i.e. i think the first 2 NQP_OPTIONS were made redundant by your two new NQP_OPTIONS 05:05
the thing is, by testing each by itself you can see *which* backend failed. otherwise you just know *a* backend failed, but not which one without looking at the actual output 05:07
ShimmerFairy ugexe: I'm not sure, but I think 'gen-moar' implies --backend=moar, for the ones without a specific --backend option listed 05:28
ugexe it does
- NQP_OPTIONS="--gen-moar" 05:29
- NQP_OPTIONS="--gen-moar=master"
- NQP_OPTIONS="--gen-moar --backends=js,moar"
- NQP_OPTIONS="--gen-moar=master --backends=js,moar"
the first two are implied by the second two. but the second two dont tell you which backend fails, just that one of --backends failed 05:31
and assuming that the default branch for moar is already master, its testing the exact same moar setup 4 times 05:32
im not sure how the branches differ though. i just know the first point is true 05:33
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ShimmerFairy ugexe: if the moar-only ones pass and the js-including ones don't, then it's pretty clearly js's problem :) 05:46
ugexe whats the point 05:47
ShimmerFairy ?
ugexe if it was the js by itself it would A. be faster B. use less travis resources C. be more clear
ShimmerFairy ugexe: I don't think JS is bootstrapped yet, so that's probably why 'moar' is needed too 05:48
ugexe i see, that would explain everything
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FROGGS[mobile] o/ 06:07
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dalek kudo/nom: c9c87a9 | skids++ | src/core/Mu.pm:
Add some helpful advice to Str(Mu:U) per RT#113888
 06:20
kudo/nom: 3fa29b7 | niner++ | src/core/Mu.pm:
Merge pull request #534 from skids/lta_errors

Add some helpful advice to Str(Mu:U) per RT#113888
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=113888
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=113888
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dalek p: 350aeb7 | ugexe++ | .travis.yml:
Use non-legacy travis-ci builds
 06:21
p: 0c380a8 | FROGGS++ | .travis.yml:
Merge pull request #244 from ugexe/patch-2

Use non-legacy travis-ci builds
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dalek kudo/nom: 24931c4 | usev6++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
Remove stringification when using :&as parameter for .squish

Fixes RT #124204		 06:27
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=124204
dalek kudo/nom: d3f71ac | niner++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
Merge pull request #532 from usev6/rt124204

Remove stringification when using :&as parameter for .squish
rurban Did someone manage to get appveyor.yml right? Travis for Windows. I failed so far
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FROGGS rurban: is that something you are supposed to run on your own machine or are there also remote services? 06:34
yoleaux 15 Sep 2015 23:45Z <ugexe> FROGGS: CURLI modules cant be use/require anymore. I've changed some stuff to get them to load, but it seems like CompUnit.load is dispatching to the self.load(Any) load method. This code lets you use the module, but none of the symbols are available. Any ideas? github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/n...d?expand=1
FROGGS ugexe: ahh, I see what I did wrong... 06:35
ugexe: I think the better patch is to install CURLI stuff in a directory scheme, and also keep file extensions... 06:36
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FROGGS ugexe: so installing Foo.pm means installing into site/<n>/lib/Foo.pm, where <n> is the distribution counter 06:37
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FROGGS ugexe: this would also aid MAIN_USAGE and file/line annotations, as well as finding the right files on disk as a user 06:38
ugexe: do you agree?
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FROGGS ugexe: we might need to normalize filenames at some point though, but this can be a lossy normalization 06:39
ugexe: like the punycode like thing I used on testers.perl6.org 06:40
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masak morning, #perl6 06:58
lizmat masak o/
moritz \o 06:59
lizmat moritz o/
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[Tux] test 50000 38.645 38.566 07:06
test-t 50000 41.678 41.599
:/
ran that twice
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lizmat [Tux]: so since when was this performance regression ? 07:09
[Tux] yesterday
30 freenode-#perl6.log:Sep 13 10:00:01 <[Tux]> test-t 50000 39.341 39.259 07:10
30 freenode-#perl6.log:Sep 14 11:15:50 <|Tux|> test-t 50000 37.080 37.000
30 freenode-#perl6.log:Sep 14 19:21:54 <|Tux|> test-t 50000 36.905 36.826
30 freenode-#perl6.log:Sep 16 09:06:05 <[Tux]> test-t 50000 41.678 41.599
moritz [Tux]: could you please locally revert 7662c4637d99addb7989ba9e9bcab1d5553f7e55 and benchmark again?
[Tux] sorry, sep 14
lizmat well, the last one from Sep 14 is after 7662c4637d99addb7989ba9e9bcab1d5553f7e55 , so it's not a MoarVM issue, I would think 07:11
rurban FROGGS: appveyor is like Travis, see e.g. ci.appveyor.com/project/rurban/cperl 07:14
just 10x slower and horribly to setup properly 07:15
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nine moritz: I can't believe your commit could cause such a slow down. 07:24
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[Tux] test 50000 39.132 39.046 07:25
test-t 50000 40.932 40.846
I reverted that commit and did a make. Would that be sufficient?
lizmat should be 07:26
breakfast& 07:27
nine I guess only a bisect will tell us want went wrong 07:29
OTOH I don't see any commit that I'd even remotely call a candidate. There weren't that many. 07:31
moritz [Tux]: you need a 'make install' 07:38
[Tux] bummer :)
test 50000 38.965 38.883 07:44
test-t 50000 40.789 40.706
no diff
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lizmat anybody any thoughts about github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/425845d723afb ?? 07:57
pink_mist sounds reasonable to me 08:00
jnthn lizmat: A little discomfort, but I'm not awake enough to know why. :) 08:01
yoleaux 03:34Z <skids> jnthn: 57a7f6a6 triggered RT#125769 (I think) so now $ = Failure.new.flat[0] throws.
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=125769
lizmat jnthn: maybe because it is slightly more work ??
OTOH, the candidate is as simple as they get, so should probably be inlined when possible? 08:02
jnthn lizmat: I'm not worried about performance, more "will this pop up as a WAT somewhere later"
lizmat well, it spectests clean so far
jnthn lizmat: But given I didn't actually manage to think of such a WAT yet... :)
star: say 1 == * 08:03
camelia star-m 2015.03: OUTPUT«WhateverCode.new()␤»
lizmat the only thing I was thinking is that maybe it should work for a Whatever type object as well
jnthn Of course, that auto-curries so you have to try quite hard to hit that code path :)
lizmat indeed
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lizmat star: sub a($a) { say "foo" if $a == Inf }; a(*) 08:04
camelia star-m 2015.03: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Numeric'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \v: *%_)␤ in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:5323␤ in sub a at /tmp/mb4fwsdXIn:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/mb4fwsdXIn:1␤␤»
lizmat m: sub a($a) { say "foo" if $a == Inf }; a(*)
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«foo␤»
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jnthn Ah, that way around 08:05
lizmat yup :-) 08:09
nine Well, we often use * to signify Inf, but does that mean that * _is_ actually Inf? 08:11
m: say *..0
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«-Inf..0␤»
nine It can also be -Inf
s/be/mean/
lizmat nine: it will only coerce Whatever:D: to Inf in Numeric "context" :-) 08:12
nine Isn't semantically *..0 some sort of numeric thing as well, even if not technically? 08:13
FROGGS Whatever can certainly mean different things, yes
pink_mist Inf|-Inf? 08:16
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nine FWIW I'm not actually against the change. Just poking around to see if we discover arguments. 08:18
jnthn Maybe in 15 years somebody will pull it out in a lightning talk about Perl 6 oddnesses and everyone will lol :) 08:19
masak no, whatever is not Inf
that's just its most common desugaring 08:20
nine Maybe it's actually a good thing to be explicit about what Whatever means in each place. Even if that means having basically the same code spread around. 08:21
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lizmat
.oO( that's wet (not DRY) )
 08:21
jnthn Yeah, but the software industry has got so obsessed with re-use it hurts us as much as helps us by now... 08:22
'cus re-use = use = dependency = coupling 08:23
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lizmat will look at the result of the * == Inf later today (or someone revert the commit if it is considered to be a WAT to happen) 08:33
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lizmat meanwhile, sightseeing and commute& 08:33
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masak so the problem `Whatever.new == Inf` solves is that there's repeated checking of whatever and Inf in the core setting? 08:37
is that a problem that could alternatively be solved by introducing a convenience subroutine? something like, is_whatever_or_inf ?
FROGGS masak: well, also in your code where you have a param $limit which can either be Inf or Whatever
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jnthn In favor of the patch, it may help bring some API uniformity 08:38
masak I don't feel strongly about what numeric value, if any, Whatever.new should have.
jnthn That is, in the built-in APIs we make * usable in place of Inf in many places
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jnthn This would mean people get it "for free" 08:38
With the natural == Inf check they would otherwise write 08:39
masak I generally don't like making values more "special" by giving them weird numifications, boolifications, stringifications or definednesses.
jnthn masak: Yeah, I think that's my hold-up too...but Whatever is already quite special... ;)
masak yeah.
I'm having an impulse to object, but this time it's "below the threshold" :) 08:40
FROGGS yeah, w/e :o)
jnthn Well, so far I've found my reason to keep it more credible than any of my reasons not to... :)
masak I guess the question we should be asking is "how do we want client/user code to look?", and then optimize for that.
and that might well be `== Inf`
FROGGS masak: then I'd +1 for the patch
masak right.
+0.98 :) 08:41
FROGGS fair enuff
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itz mornin' 09:08
BooK is there a difference between Inf and +Inf ? 09:10
cognominal the sign? :) 09:11
itz m: Inf eqv +Inf
camelia ( no output )
itz m: say Inf eqv +Inf 09:12
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«True␤»
cognominal say Inf =:= +Inf
m: say Inf =:= +Inf
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«True␤»
cognominal according to wp, IEE 754 says there are 2 infinities 09:13
psch m: say -Inf =:= Inf 09:15
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«False␤»
mrf =:= ?
BooK I just looked at lizmat's patch, and wondered about the cases when * might actually mean -Inf, like nine when he said *..0
cognominal BooK, * means different things in different places 09:16
psch mrf: object identity, like == on object in Java for example
cognominal that's its very purpose
BooK yes, but won't 'multi method Numeric(Whatever:D:) { Inf }' always turn it into Inf even when -Inf is what was meant? 09:17
mrf psch: cheers
FROGGS m: say *..0.min 09:18
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«-Inf..0␤»
FROGGS m: say (*..0).min
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«-Inf␤»
FROGGS BooK: the Whatever is usually already turned into -Inf before you call .Numeric on it 09:19
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FROGGS BooK: like in my example because it is the left hand side 09:19
BooK right, that's why jnthn said "you have to try quite hard to hit that code path" 09:20
FROGGS aye
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masak the only other place where I can think of a numeric value making sense for * is in @ary[*-2] 09:23
in that case, the numeric value is not Inf, but +@ary
cognominal BooK, if you do perl6 --target=ast -e '*..0', you see a - QAST::Op.new(call &infix:<..>) and you search that operator in the core
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cognominal BooK, and that's leads you the a Range.new multimethod github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...nge.pm#L20 09:26
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cognominal so just like I said * becomes whatever that multimethod chooses it to be. 09:27
use the source, luke :) 09:28
itz does anyone have a (hopefully reasonably simple) explanation of how GLR has affected the behaviour of gather/take?
or is it just the associated lists?
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cognominal BooK, one does not need to to a --target=ast in that case, just to show you a tool to peek under the hood. 09:29
And if you find the dump too verbose and not specific enough, there is a patch for that : github.com/cognominal/nqp/commit/d...edc2985489 :) 09:30
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[Tux] itz, IIRC gather/take is now default lazy 09:41
before GLR, «gather { ... take 0..Inf }» returned a lazy list, after GLR it returned a non-lazy Range, which changed not long after the GLR merge into a lazy range 09:42
please core-folk correct me if I am wrong
pre-GLR «gather { ... take 0..Inf }» → post-GLR «gather { ... take ((0 .. Inf).Slip); 09:44
itz m: say (gather { take 0..Inf}).is-lazy 09:45
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«False␤»
itz m: say (lazy gather { take 0..Inf}).is-lazy
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«True␤»
itz pre-glr 09:47
> say (gather { take 0..Inf}).infinite
False
> say (lazy gather { take 0..Inf}).infinite
False
[Tux] m: (gather {take 0..Inf}).perl.say 09:48
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«(0..Inf,).Seq␤»
[Tux] it is a .Seq now
I just checked, it is still not lazy enough for my purpose 09:49
psch m: say (gather { .take for ^Inf })
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 8…»
psch m: say (gather { .take for ^Inf }).is-lazy
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«False␤»
[Tux] FROGGS? was it you who wanted to fix that?
psch "take 0..Inf" takes one lazy list
but gather/take isn't lazy own its own 09:50
[Tux] $from..$to != ^$to :(
FROGGS [Tux]: unlikely, I dunno how 09:51
or where to start for that matter
nine++ might be able to give a hint
dalek p: 4740820 | peschwa++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
Clone VMHashInstance.storage before building an Iterator.

Otherwise we get ConcurrentModificationException thrown when changing a Hash while iterating over it.		 09:52
FROGGS m: say (gather { take 0..Inf }) 09:53
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«(0..Inf)␤»
[Tux] Sep 09 18:47:29 <nine> |Tux|: in case you didn't see it. I do have a fix for your Inf problem
FROGGS psch++
dalek kudo/nom: ed47bb4 | peschwa++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
Bump NQP_REVISION.

This pulls the "clone VMHashInstance for VMIterInstance" fix for nqp-j, which gives us somewhere in the vicinity of 200 passing tests back.		 09:54
09:56 travis-ci joined
travis-ci NQP build failed. Pepe Schwarz 'Clone VMHashInstance.storage before building an Iterator. 09:56
travis-ci.org/perl6/nqp/builds/80604088 github.com/perl6/nqp/compare/0c380...40820dddbb
09:56 travis-ci left
psch aww 09:56
it worked locally :l 09:57
ehh
the js,moar failed
i'm taking responsibility for that :P
err
*not*
/home/travis/build/perl6/nqp/node_modules/nqp-runtime/deserialization.js:409 09:58
throw 'Unsupported serialization format version: ' + version;
yeah that's not on me
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[Tux] IIRC travis removed some META stuff 10:03
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psch r: say Bag.new("a", "b", "c").roll # 10:11
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«c␤»
..rakudo-jvm d3f71a: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding @pairs; expected 'Positional' but got 'Seq'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
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masak ooh, a backend difference 10:12
m: say Seq ~~ Positional
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«False␤»
masak r: say Seq ~~ Positional
camelia rakudo-{moar,jvm} d3f71a: OUTPUT«False␤» 10:13
FROGGS the PositionalBindFailover still needs some love it seems
psch FROGGS: yeah, that sounds about right
# expected: 'o 3 b 1 a 2 p 2' 10:15
# got: 'o 3 b 1 p 2 a 2'
grrr
10:17 CIAvash left
psch r: my @list = <1 10 2 3>; say sort(-> $key {+$key}, @list) 10:18
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«(val("1") val("2") val("3") val("10"))␤»
..rakudo-jvm d3f71a: OUTPUT«(val("1") val("10") val("2") val("3"))␤»
FROGGS errr 10:19
r: say 1 cmp 10
camelia rakudo-{moar,jvm} d3f71a: OUTPUT«Less␤»
psch r: say <1> cmp <10>
camelia rakudo-{moar,jvm} d3f71a: OUTPUT«Less␤»
psch r: say val("1") cmp val("10")
camelia rakudo-{moar,jvm} d3f71a: OUTPUT«Less␤»
FROGGS r: say +<1> cmp +<10>
camelia rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«Less␤»
..rakudo-jvm d3f71a: OUTPUT«Same␤»
FROGGS :D
psch neat
:D
FROGGS j: say +<10> 10:20
camelia rakudo-jvm d3f71a: OUTPUT«10␤»
FROGGS j: say (+<10>).WHAT
camelia rakudo-jvm d3f71a: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
FROGGS r: say +<1> == +<10>
camelia rakudo-jvm d3f71a: OUTPUT«True␤»
..rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«False␤»
psch wha
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FROGGS how, what 10:20
arnsholt WAT?
r: say +<1>; say +<10> 10:21
camelia rakudo-jvm d3f71a: OUTPUT«10␤1␤»
..rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«1␤10␤»
pink_mist wat
psch uhh
FROGGS haha
psch i uhm
wat
FROGGS wtf
arnsholt r: say +<1> 10:22
camelia rakudo-{moar,jvm} d3f71a: OUTPUT«1␤»
arnsholt Looks like something weird going on in the JVM compilation when both of them are there 10:23
FROGGS r: multi infix:<wtf>($a, $b) { "'$a' $a.^name() - '$b' $b.^name()" }; say +<1> wtf +<10>
pink_mist r: say +<3>; say +<10>;
camelia rakudo-jvm d3f71a: OUTPUT«'1' Int - '1' Int␤»
..rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«'1' Int - '10' Int␤»
rakudo-moar d3f71a: OUTPUT«3␤10␤»
..rakudo-jvm d3f71a: OUTPUT«10␤1␤»
arnsholt Something being done LIFO when it should be FIFO, perhaps
m: say +<1>, +<2>, +<3>
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«123␤»
arnsholt r: say +<1>, +<2>, +<3> 10:24
FROGGS it does some caching it seems
camelia rakudo-jvm ed47bb: OUTPUT«333␤»
..rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«123␤»
arnsholt r: say +<1>; say +<2>; say +<3>
camelia rakudo-jvm ed47bb: OUTPUT«3␤1␤1␤»
..rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
FROGGS maybe it messed up its string heap?
arnsholt Something weird going on with constants, yeah
FROGGS j: say +<1>; say +<2>; say +<3>
camelia rakudo-jvm ed47bb: OUTPUT«3␤1␤1␤»
FROGGS j: say +<1>; say +<2>; say +<3> 10:25
camelia rakudo-jvm ed47bb: OUTPUT«3␤1␤1␤»
FROGGS hmmm
psch might be the getBI hack i guess
although i wouldn't know how
it's pretty terrible anyway, so if anyone has a better solution... :)
FROGGS getBI? 10:27
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nine [Tux]: gather is not lazy by default. I gave changing that a try but the spec test fallout made me quickly forget that idea. 10:28
[Tux]: Writing lazy gather { ... } is an easy enough workaround
psch FROGGS: org.perl6.nqp.runtime.Ops.getBI
FROGGS psch: eeks!
psch FROGGS: ec6341f71b7164a38a367ee51d658187c2cf5833
[Tux] tries that
itz so, what if anything, has changed in gather/take behaviour post-GLR? 10:29
psch but yeah, no idea if that's actually related, but that's what i had to do to get allomorphs running in the first place
nine psch: regarding the expected 'Positional' but got 'Seq', commits 9fdaf03b0a43e527f5a808f7a8eff68a18684be5 and 749b72e95f24ed75810666886c5c29efa47eec5a may be of interest 10:32
[Tux] nine, gist.github.com/Tux/bcaaa0d9902b0993bf92 still takes forever. note that the result is taken as a slice index 10:35
psch nine: yeah, FROGGS mentioned the PositionalBindFailover. it's apparently under implemented on jvm
[Tux] leaves for customer-visit. bbl
nine psch: yes, teaching the dispatcher about PositionalBindFailover was one of the very last changes of the GLR 10:36
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masak leaves for a train & 10:43
Ven bai masak 10:44
and \o, #perl6! 10:45
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moritz blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2015/09/f...nt-1615534 # people asking random, unrelated Perl 6 questions in response to any Perl 6 content at all 10:57
oh, and OvidPerl++ 10:58
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psch r: use Test; my @data = ^10; my @tap; @data <== map {$_ + 1} <== @tap <== grep {$_ % 2} <== eager @data; is(@tap, <1 3 5 7 9>, '@tap contained what was expected at the time'); # this fails in S03-feeds/basic.t..? 10:59
camelia rakudo-{moar,jvm} ed47bb: OUTPUT«ok 1 - @tap contained what was expected at the time␤»
11:00 rurban left
psch ooh 11:01
duh
r: use Test; my @data = <0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9>; my @tap; @data <== map {$_ + 1} <== @tap <== grep {$_ % 2} <== eager @data; is(@tap, <1 3 5 7 9>, '@tap contained what was expected at the time'); # *this* fails in S03-feeds/basic.t!
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«ok 1 - @tap contained what was expected at the time␤»
..rakudo-jvm ed47bb: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - @tap contained what was expected at the time␤␤# Failed test '@tap contained what was expected at the time'␤# at /tmp/tmpfile line 1␤# expected: '1 3 5 7 9'␤# got: ''␤»
psch which is probably the same allomorph wonkiness
that's what i get for not actually copying and pasting the whole test :) 11:02
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masak OvidPerl: just a minor stylistic thing in blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2015/09/f...erl-6.html 11:30
OvidPerl: I'd indent the heredoc further, so it doesn't stand out as statements. there's something pleasing about "continuation lines" being more indented than the start of statements, and the eye scans that more easily. 11:31
OvidPerl: kudos for not doing qq:to/END/. I noticed. :) 11:32
gfldex r: say sprintf('%f %f %f %f %f', 1, Mu, Any, Nil, NaN);
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«1.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000 0.000000␤»
..rakudo-jvm ed47bb: OUTPUT«java.lang.NumberFormatException: For input string: "nan"␤␤»
masak gfldex++ # whatever it is you're doing, it's interesting
gfldex i'm trying to hunt down a bug in tony-o/perl6-bench, what led me to ugexe/Perl6-Text--Table--Simple, what in turn led me to nqp::sprintf 11:34
masak right.
that's admirable.
gfldex nqp::sprintf seams not to like Seq much
masak gfldex: if Java thinks the input string "nan" cannot be numified, then Java is wrong, and should be wrapped with the right semantics. 11:35
gfldex still hunting tho
masak gfldex: in any case, what you have above is rakudobuggable, definitely.
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gfldex so NaN should numify to 0.0 instead of NaN? 11:36
masak no, it should numify to NaN. 11:38
m: say +"NaN"
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
masak NaN, despite the name, is of type number.
and if you numify a string with it, you get it. 11:39
ditto Inf and -Inf.
gfldex so nqp::sprintf is double wrong twice. I shall rakudobug at once!
masak gfldex++ 11:41
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timotimo o/ 11:45
11:46 Ven left
timotimo confluence.jetbrains.com/display/K...e+builders - this reminds me of the discussion we've had about fluent interfaces and a "construct { }" block 11:47
masak: i think you were the one who suggested the construct block?
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masak timotimo: yes, it would make a cute macro. 11:55
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FROGGS awwww, such macro 11:58
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itz hmmm DEPRECATED is being used by ecosystem modules which means the warning appears with text suggests internal deprecation 12:13
maybe there should be RAKUDO_DEPRECATED (or similar) for internal deprecations and DEPRECATED be repurposed for module author use? 12:14
timotimo japhb: i shall push the extra microbenchmarks 12:15
japhb: though i'm a little bit hesitant, as there's already so many and benchmarking already takes rather long 12:16
japhb: also, the benchmarks have only a perl6 variant
japhb: i thought it doesn't meet the criteria for inclusion 12:24
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Ulti are there any examples of NativeCall with a CPP object anywhere? or is that not a thing 12:34
[Coke] lizmat. +*==Inf is fine with me. 12:37
there are already tickets about sprintf'ing nan, btw. 12:45
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dalek pan style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: c29c3b4 | (Steve Mynott)++ | categories/99-problems/P17-topo.pl:
[99probs] GLR fix P17-topo.pl
 13:02
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_sri is Ovid correct here? blogs.perl.org/users/ovid/2015/09/f...nt-1615544 13:17
is given really more perl6-ish than method chaining?
pink_mist . o O ( class Foo is Chaining ... ) 13:18
_sri (yesterday folks around here seemed to agree sadly) 13:19
alpha-cent What is a shortest one-liner for zipping~ lines from N files ( 1.txt, 2.txt, 3.txt, .... ) ?
PerlJam _sri: why sadly? 13:20
_sri PerlJam: i love fluent interfaces, and can't stand the style he's using 13:21
it feels like trying to be different for the sake of it 13:22
Ven _sri: I'd agree
given + .foo;.bar;.bar ... Looks like smalltalk :P
_sri: well, I'd certainly prefer Employee.new(:name<foo>, :lastname<bar>), though.
_sri it's certainly not the best example, guess i'd use something more jQuery-ish 13:23
or mojolicious-ish ;p 13:24
PerlJam heh
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PerlJam _sri: I think I'd say that tmtowtdi is alive and well in Perl 6, and that given v.s fluent is just a trade-off for whatever particular bit of awkwardness you're comfortable with. 13:25
(does "fluent" == "method chaining"? ) 13:26
_sri hah, you said given vs fluent ;p
that's kinda what i would like to know, if given is really the perl6 version of fluent interfaces 13:27
masak I have the feeling that people are trying to cram fluent interfaces into Perl 6 somehow. and being disappointed when it doesn't fit so well. :)
_sri or rather, the preferred version
masak I could see them being used, mind.
_sri masak: it's easy enough with a trait, as Ovid has shown in the old version of the wikipedia entry
masak yes, but the thing is that Perl 6 doesn't really set attribute values like that, generally. 13:28
_sri en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title...313#Perl_6
masak it's Perl 5-think.
we do it with `=`
_sri has NonEmptyString $.name is chainymutable;
masak and so giving an example with chained setters is misleading because it's by definition not very idiomatic Perl 6. 13:29
it's "trying to cram chained methods into Perl 6".
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_sri to be fair, you don't do that much in ruby either 13:30
but they have a nice looking example anyway
masak ...if you like duck-punching :P 13:31
in Ruby, IIRC, methods return `self` by default?
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masak oh, no. that's not what's going on there. 13:31
PerlJam no, a "string" is just a String. 13:32
masak right.
yeah, that is a nice example.
we could copy that. :)
but maybe do the .&foo thing instead of punching the duck
yes, that's a good point. fluent interfaces and method chaining don't have to have anything to do with accessors/setters. 13:34
Ven masak: no, methods in ruby return their latest expression 13:35
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masak yeah, I realized after looking at them for a while. 13:39
I was probably thinking of Smalltalk.
cdc _sri: A.foo(31).bar('sdf') has already a meaning in "bare" Perl 6. Using a trait to modify the current semantic will confuse people (or at least me). 13:40
Ven masak: in smalltalk, you explicitly use ";" to chain methods to the last self
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masak ok. 13:43
_sri cdc: that's why you use an example like the ruby one
masak right. fluent interfaces don't have to be about setters. 13:44
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cdc I agree: it's not about setters, that's why I suggested yesterday to add .say in the "given" block. 13:45
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masak I agree that by the time you have a `given` block and individual statements inside, it's no longer a fluent interface. 13:46
PerlJam As long as it's not an effluent interface, I think we're okay. ;) 13:47
masak but it's an interesting idea to have a syntactic convenience to turn something into a fluent interface, like (apparently) Smalltalk. 13:48
that could also be a macro, I guess.
Ven masak: well, isn't given enough?
masak the methods could return anything, but you can still do $obj.foo.bar.baz
Ven: I don't understand the question. conditional jumps are "enough".
people like syntactic sugar. and much of the time they're right to do so. 13:49
skids Could a hyperop combiner be abused, e.g. using the same machanism as ».?
moritz .foo;.bar;.baz given $obj
Ven masak: I mean, instead of a macro
masak for me, most of the time, probably yes.
but I feel the question is a little bit of "what use is a newborn baby?"
andreoss m: say (0.1 ** 103 == 0) 13:50
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«False␤»
andreoss m: say (0.0001 ** 100 == 0)
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«True␤»
Ven also funny, OOC uses . to chain calls, as opposed to whitespace to do oo-style access. ie "str println()" calls the member function, "str .println() .free()" cascades
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dalek c: 5d3eae7 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/Language/5to6-perlop.pod:
Fix unescaped ">" in C<>
 14:03
Ven m: my @a = gather for 1 { take |$_..Inf; }; say @a[^5]; 14:04
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«(1..Inf)␤»
Ven m: my @a = gather for 1 { take |$_..Inf; }; say @a[^5].perl
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«(1..Inf,)␤»
Ven I can't `take |`?
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skids Ven: precedence on |. But if you parenthesis $_..Inf it will hang. 14:07
Because the array assignment is eager.
Ven skids: Ha! even I get caught by this >.> 14:08
m: my @a = gather for 1 { take |($_..Inf); }; say @a[^5].perl
grondilu oh cool the YAPC::EU keynote video is online
Ven nope, that's not to rakudo's liking
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grondilu youtu.be/RvCkvXvqi3U 14:08
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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skids $a = should work, but also hangs for some reason. 14:09
Loren evening #perl6.
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skids Oh, I know why. 14:10
nope, nm.
m: m: my $a = gather for 1 { take ($_..Inf).Slip; }; say $a[^5].perl # that way seems to work. 14:12
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3, 4, 5)␤»
moritz the problem with take |($_..Inf) is that it tries to pass an infinitely long argument list to &take
14:13 FROGGS left
skids Isn't | basically slip() ? 14:14
masak trying to pass an infinitely long argument list sounds like a thing that ought to fail as early as possible. 14:15
skids Or, is that what the mystery S07 line 159 means? 14:16
That | at the front of an arglist is special somehow...
ugexe FROGGS_: agreed on suggested file path change for CURLI 14:17
itz is liz off travelling? 14:18
FROGGS_ ugexe: cool!
let's doit then :o)
and also add install capabilities to CURLF
and precomp, but more cache-like 14:19
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ugexe precomp would still be a method of CU right? 14:22
nine m: my @a = gather for 1 { take $_ for $_..Inf; } say @a[^5].perl; 14:24
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/FZf4jjk7u0␤Strange text after block (missing semicolon or comma?)␤at /tmp/FZf4jjk7u0:1␤------> 3 = gather for 1 { take $_ for $_..Inf; }7⏏5 say @a[^5].perl;␤ expecting any of:␤ infix…»
nine m: my @a = gather for 1 { take $_ for $_..Inf; }; say @a[^5].perl;
m: my @a = lazy gather for 1 { take $_ for $_..Inf; }; say @a[^5].perl;
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3, 4, 5)␤»
nine m: my @a = lazy gather for 1 { take $_ for $_..Inf; }; say @a[^5].perl;
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«(1, 2, 3, 4, 5)␤»
FROGGS_ ugexe: that makes sense, no? 14:25
nine gather/take is already a mechanism to turn loops into iterators. Why not use it for the $_..Inf as well?
Skarsnik Hello there. I had a weirds issue with the XML module when usings the elements method, first one: When I use the SINGLE tag (supposed to stop at the first match and return a node), it always return a Bool. And sometime it fail for no reason, saying a type does not match what is expected (pastebin.com/EAzAM18D) 14:26
ugexe FROGGS_: im just curious how cross compiling will work, since then CU could represent more than 2 files (say, the .pm6 source, and then the .moarvm and the .jar) 14:34
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FROGGS_ ugexe: interesting aspect... 14:36
I'll think about it
ugexe it may also be worth thinking about CU that is just a precomp'd file and no source file (lizmat mentioned this a year ago or so) 14:37
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ugexe the last thing in my notes is it seems a topological sort would need to be implemented somewhere so that files can be recompiled when updating rakudo 14:45
carlin m: say now 14:47
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«Instant:1442414905.049917␤»
carlin why does stringify to including the word "Instant:" shouldn't it just be the stringification of the number, like now.Rat.Str? 14:48
moritz well, it should be different from Rat.Str
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dalek ast: ce80412 | skids++ | integration/error-reporting.t:
Add test for RT#113888
 14:52
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=113888
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grondilu listened to Larry saying: "For instance, I wanted our compiler to be completely bootstrapped on full Perl6 code". 15:11
^That's not possible, is it? Something like a Tarski theorem or something. 15:12
pmurias having a precompiled Rakudo + Perl 6 source code for Rakudo is enough 15:14
Ven grondilu: why not? You just need the n-1 compiler
or a compiled version of it (say, in JS) that you can compile
s:2nd/compile/use/ 15:15
grondilu I mean I remember having watched a video on mathematical philosophy that dealt with this and I couldn't help relate to NQP being necessary to bootstrap Perl 6
pmurias grondilu: NQP is just faster
Ven grondilu: well, what language is your C compiler written in? 15:16
ok, it's actually written in C++. the point still stands :P.
TimToady I know, we should just write the nqp compiler in Perl 6
cognominal grondilu, to state that in biologic terms, ontogeny does not need to fully recapitulate phylogeny
Ven TimToady: isn't part of it in Perl6 (grammar) already? :P 15:17
grondilu I can write a one-liner Perl6 compiler : EVAL slurp @ARGS
TimToady I would say that nqp's grammar is one of the places where nqp is pretty close to full Perl 6
BooK This reminds of cranes. They say it takes one to build one. 15:18
itz someone on another channel read S07-glr-draft.pod by mistake rather than S07, wondering whether to delete it 15:21
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PerlJam didn't jnthn update S07 to match reality? If so, I'd say delete S07-glr-draft 15:21
TimToady +1 15:22
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dalek pan style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: 954185f | paultcochrane++ | categories/99-problems/P09-topo.pl:
[99probs] fix P09-topo post GLR
 15:23
ecs: e80063c | (Steve Mynott)++ | S07-glr-draft.pod:
delete S07-glr-draft.pod. OK on IRC
 15:25
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jnthn (glr-draft) aye, JFDI 15:29
Oh, already did :)
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pmurias S07 has been updated? 15:32
PerlJam about a week ago IIRC
jnthn pmurias: I started in on a re-write. Most of the user facing stuff is fleshed out. Iterator API and parallel iteration API to come. 15:33
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jnthn But for the stuff people will typically encounter using Perl 6, yes. 15:33
pmurias great 15:34
jnthn I'll get back to it soonish 15:35
But been a bit tied up with talks.
dalek osystem: c12405a | (Shoichi Kaji)++ | META.list:
Add App::Mi6
 15:36
osystem: 27034b7 | ab5tract++ | META.list:
Merge pull request #57 from shoichikaji/add-module

Add App::Mi6
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FROGGS_ ugexe: a CU can also be constructed from memory, so there might be no file involved at all... 15:40
15:40 patrickz left, Alina-malina joined
FROGGS_ ugexe: but I think we need to shell out anyway for the time being when precompiling things 15:40
ugexe: this also let's us easily precompile for several backends at once 15:41
psch #note "*cough* {c.perl} -> {$test(|c).perl}"; 15:42
FROGGS_ hmm?
arnsholt r: my int @dims[2; 2] = (1,2;3,4); say @dims[1;1] # I wonder...
camelia ( no output )
..rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Shaped arrays not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> 3my int @dims[2; 2]7⏏5 = (1,2;3,4); say @dims[1;1] # I wonder.␤ expecting any of:␤ constraint␤»
psch FROGGS_: Any-iterable-methods.pm:306
psch feels less bad about having commited "if %*ENV<DEBUG_PLS>" once :P
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colomon is trying to remember where he recently bumped into discussion about a package alleged to be great for visual graphing …. 15:48
arnsholt Just creating plots of data, you mean? 15:50
Might be ggplot for R?
Or pandas for Python 15:51
colomon arnsholt: yeah, something like graphviz. Only I seem to recall this one was alleged to be better than graphviz. 15:52
15:53 telex left 15:54 telex joined
colomon err… so perhaps nothing at all like ggplot. :) 15:54
15:55 CQ2 left 15:56 abraxxa left
dalek rl6-roast-data: b4d2bcc | coke++ | / (9 files):
today (automated commit)
 15:57
15:58 zakharyas left 16:01 rurban left 16:13 domidumont joined 16:14 domidumont left 16:15 domidumont joined 16:16 telex left, telex joined 16:20 TEttinger joined 16:27 spider-mario joined, adu joined 16:36 Ven left, mprelude left
arnsholt Oh, graphviz. No idea then, I'm afraid 16:37
psch r: say %(a => 1, b => 2).pairs.grep: { True }
camelia rakudo-jvm ed47bb: OUTPUT«(b => 2 a => 1)␤»
..rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«(a => 1 b => 2)␤»
psch r: say grep { True }, %(a => 1, b => 2).pairs
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«(a => 1 b => 2)␤»
..rakudo-jvm ed47bb: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding @values; expected 'Positional' but got 'Seq'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
psch ...but sub grep calls @values.grep? :/
16:38 Sqirrel joined
nine psch: .pairs returns a Seq 16:43
psch: we never return lists unless absolutely necessary
16:44 patrickz joined
psch nine: how does that help with the discrepancy between moar and jvm and the sub and method form? :s 16:45
the method form works on both, but sub only breaks on jvm
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nine psch: It's sub grep's signature that refuses the Seq. The method form does not need binding, it just greps the Iterable 16:48
psch nine: oh! that makes sense, actually. we already know the method can bind to the invocant, so we don't need the binder 16:49
nine psch: in other words, Any.grep does not impose any type constraint on self, while sub grep expects a Positional as first argument
pink_mist why is there a difference between moar and jvm though? 16:50
psch pink_mist: because the jvm Binder isn't correct
pink_mist ah
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hoelzro o/ #perl6 16:54
hoelzro got k-lined =(
FROGGS_ o/ 16:56
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ugexe FROGGS: yeah i have a distribution class i made that has the documented .content method for doing that from GitHub. it cheats and uses a temp file, but acts like an IO object so CURLI could install from it 17:08
[Coke] moritz++ caching kinds. 17:09
ugexe i understand what you are getting at though
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[Coke] m: my @a=1,2,3;my $a=@a;for @a {.say};for $a {.say} 17:20
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤[1 2 3]␤»
17:20 telex joined 17:21 telex left
[Coke] (needed somethign I could paste into a FB thread. :) 17:21
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psch hrm, hack is at 140 load avg 17:22
nine .tell [Tux] I tried bisecting your performance regression but could not find it. If anything, Rakudo seems to have become faster 17:23
yoleaux nine: I'll pass your message to [Tux].
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[ptc] m: [+] (True); [+] (True, False) 17:33
camelia ( no output )
[ptc] m: say [+] (True); say [+] (True, False)
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«True␤1␤»
[ptc] m: say [+] (True,); say [+] (True, False)
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«True␤1␤»
timotimo oh interessant
it does not mummify like prefix +
[ptc] why does that happen?
timotimo check the one-parameter version of infix + 17:34
[Coke] skids: can you explain the all() in github.com/perl6/roast/commit/ce80...b35608e9d4 ?
timotimo I'm using a phone right now, so i can't do it quickly
skids mummification is usually a slow chemical reaction between the embalming fliud and the skin.
[Coke] looks like it's supposed to have both "Str" and then something else, but that something else isn't in the error message I see.
skids [Coke]: other tests did that to test more than one rx// 17:35
print 'a'.WHAT
m: print 'a'.WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Str in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed. in block <unit> at /tmp/cCv1ik3juY:1␤»
[ptc] timotimo: do you mean to check the code in Rakudo?
[Coke] m: print "a".WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Str in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed. in block <unit> at /tmp/cERsmz8Yvz:1␤»
timotimo yes
[ptc] ok, will do
[Coke] ah, I just don't have a new enough rakudo. nevermind. 17:36
skids The second rx checks that the message mentions one of those methods.
[Coke] also doesn't autoscroll to the bottom before sending something, whoops. :)
skids I was too busy to figure out <!before > or something to deal with looking for the '<element>' the RT was complaining about. 17:37
timotimo it should call True.Numeric
skids wishes pidgin would do better at resuming autoscroll. 17:38
timotimo i cannot give you a link to the line ouor tell you the line... because mobile version of github
[ptc] timotimo: no worries, I'm trying to git grep the best I can :-) 17:39
timotimo m: say True.Numeric
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«1␤»
timotimo it is in numeric.pm
capital n
[ptc] wow, you're good!!!
[ptc] puts on impressed look
timotimo haha
it's just experience 17:40
but why does it not call the one argument version fifor the one element list?
m: say [+](True)
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«True␤»
timotimo er 17:41
m: &[+](True)
camelia ( no output )
timotimo damn it
m: say &[+](True)
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«1␤»
[ptc] m: [-](True) 17:42
camelia ( no output )
[ptc] m: say [-](True)
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«True␤»
[ptc] m: say [-](False)
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«False␤»
[ptc] maybe there isn't a one argument version?
everything looks ok/consistent in Numeric.pm
[Coke] lots of "make test" failures on OS X: gist.github.com/coke/58515c044cd59c6e454d 17:43
grondilu wow this actually works:
[Coke] all nativecall related.
grondilu m: say [Z+] (1, 2), (3, 4);
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«(4 6)␤»
timotimo of course it works
TimToady ENODALEK
[ptc] can't exterminate? 17:44
[Coke] stares at grondilu's send.
grondilu on the other hand I thought I could use that to do parallel sum, but I realize Z is not parallel. I'd need to use « » 17:45
[ptc] m: say [+^] (True); say [+^] (True, False)
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«True␤1␤»
[ptc] timotimo: there doesn't seem to be a single-arg version of infix:+ 17:46
timotimo [pi saw it
FROGGS m: class Foo { ... }; class Bar does Foo { }; role Foo { } # was that reported already?
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Method 'item' not found for invocant of class 'Foo'␤ at <unknown>:1 (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-1/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm:print_exception:4294967295)␤ from gen/moar/m-CORE.setting:17208 (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst…»
timotimo it's the one that also handles the 0 arg case
skids m: +().say 17:47
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of "+" in expression "+().say" in sink context (line 1)␤()␤»
[ptc] do you mean this: multi sub infix:<+>($x = 0) { $x.Numeric }
skids m: (+()).say
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«0␤»
skids Most operators with identity build off that.
[ptc] but that only handles the case where the input is zero, or am I misunderstanding the code?
17:47 telex left
TimToady skids: that's just calling ().Numeric 17:48
skids [ptc]: no that's a default value.
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grondilu m: say [»+«] (1, 2), (3, 4); 17:48
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«(4 6)␤»
[ptc] skids: ah, ok
grondilu m: say [»+«] (^1024).rotor(4);
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«(130560 130816 131072 131328)␤»
grondilu m: say [+] [»+«] (^1024).rotor(4);
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«523776␤»
[ptc] skids: yes, of course. Wasn't thinking of it as a default value...
grondilu m: say [+] ^1024
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«523776␤»
grondilu m: say [+] [»+«] (rand xx 1024).rotor(4); say now - INIT now; 17:49
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«521.356479573331␤0.2698897␤»
grondilu m: say [+] ^1024; say now - INIT now
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«523776␤0.0047310␤»
grondilu m: say [+] [»+«] (rand xx 1024*32).rotor(4); say now - INIT now; 17:50
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«16374.3125817925␤7.5548696␤»
grondilu m: say [+] ^(1024*32); say now - INIT now
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«536854528␤0.04957762␤»
grondilu forgot to use rand 17:51
m: say [+] rand xx (1024*32); say now - INIT now
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«16397.0718246223␤0.2615754␤»
grondilu m: say [+] [»+«] (rand xx 1024*400).rotor(4); say now - INIT now; 17:52
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
grondilu m: say [+] rand xx (1024*400); say now - INIT now 17:53
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«204682.28740312␤3.09294368␤»
17:53 YuviPanda is now known as Jiimmmmyyy
[ptc] m: True.Numeric 17:53
camelia ( no output )
[ptc] m: say True.Numeric
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«1␤»
17:53 telex left 17:54 telex joined
[ptc] m: say +True 17:55
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«1␤»
[ptc] m: say [+]True
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/ScL2pTLP6Q␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/ScL2pTLP6Q:1␤------> 3say [+]7⏏5True␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement end␤ stateme…»
[ptc] m: say [+](True)
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«True␤»
[ptc] is that a rakudobug, or is that just plain PEBKAC? 17:56
TimToady neither, I think
17:56 sufrostico joined
TimToady see S03:4637 17:57
nine How many lines should $io.lines return for a file containing exactly "foo\n"?
[ptc] looks 17:59
TimToady nine: why would it be anything other than 1? 18:01
nine TimToady: because then we could keep Rakudo's current implementation ;) Seems like it's always been 2 18:02
[ptc] hrm, ok just as spec-ed.
TimToady 2 would be wrong
nine I first thought it's a regression from jnthn's performance work, but it behaved just the same previously.
TimToady nine: did you see this bug:
m: for $[1,2,3] { .say }; .say for $[1,2,3]
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«[1 2 3]␤1␤2␤3␤»
TimToady we currently have two tests failing because of that one 18:03
nine TimToady: yes, that's the next issue on my list
TimToady in a related issue, I just checked in a new slurpy that does one-arg
nine Oh nice! 18:04
TimToady m: sub foo (+@args) { say @args.elems }; foo [1..4]; foo [1..4],2
camelia rakudo-moar ed47bb: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/oxfEcA7C5n␤Malformed parameter␤at /tmp/oxfEcA7C5n:1␤------> 3sub foo (7⏏5+@args) { say @args.elems }; foo [1..4];␤ expecting any of:␤ formal parameter␤»
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TimToady that should work in a few minutes 18:04
nine So it's not |@args after all
TimToady no, I decided solutions with | or \ looked too confusing
and this also gives us +args for the raw form
there's no tests yet for the +slurpy, so if anyone wants to write some...me, I've gotta try to get my old car smogged again... 18:09
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TimToady I think there's still a small bug in my +slurpy implementation, insofar as a one-arg range ends up getting flattened 18:14
but it's enough to start playing with
afk & 18:15
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moritz any ideas why hack keeps hanging up again? :( 18:49
muraiki hi all. I'm experiencing a strange problem where an IO::Notification.watch-path supply is using a huge amount of CPU even with no events occurring: gist.github.com/muraiki/24c7dac46733b58abcfb
if I remove the .unique line, it works without a problem
[Coke] moritz: my open irssi session seems very responsive... that's about it, though. 18:50
18:50 telex left 18:51 telex joined
moritz the last nagios alert said load average: 32.54 18:52
[ptc] moritz: hope that's not the perl6-examples going haywire again
dha so. Has C<with>/C<without> changed from the way it's described in specs/S04 ? Or can I just swipe that wholesale for the docs? 18:53
[ptc] hrm, ssh to hack is taking ages... 18:54
moritz [ptc]: did you add ulimits?
[ptc] moritz: I thought you did...
moritz dha: I don't think it changed
[Coke] I'm ON hack, and opening a new screen shell isn't happening.
dha Cool.
18:54 sufrostico joined
moritz dha: fwiw I think a better way to get review would be to open pull requests 18:54
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[Coke] I could probably kill my other chat thing, maybe that will get me a working shell... 18:55
moritz that's our code (and doc) review service of choice
18:55 sufrostico left
moritz [Coke]: unlikely 18:55
[ptc] moritz++
muraiki I feel like I've not experienced the problem I mentioned in pre-glr moar. and it also results in a server become pretty much unresponsive for a decent period of time
dha moritz - ok. So noted.
[Coke] moritz: ah, tht window is frozen. it's just irssi that's behaving nicely. :)
moritz [Coke]: time to reboot hack? :/ 18:56
[ptc] is the load higher than 32 in nagios now?
... it's just that if it's still answering to nagios requests, then it might recover 18:57
moritz [ptc]: I haven't got another mail from nagios since the first one
(and no access to the web interface, I think)
[ptc] ah, ok 18:58
moritz powercycles it
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psch fwiw, the highest load i saw on hack (before i went for a walk about 25 minutes ago) was around 470 19:02
_itz it might be worth enabling sar(1) accounting in order to display historic load etc from the command line 19:04
[ptc] moritz: the ulimits were still in force on the perl6-examples update-and-sync script. Hence it probably wasn't that. Nevertheless, I'll start a new build of the examples and see if things start to go wobbly 19:05
_itz: also not a bad idea
dalek c: 9be03d2 | (David H. Adler)++ | lib/Language/variables.pod:
Changed code example for C<state> and tweaked related language
_itz www.leonardoborda.com/blog/how-to-c...ntudebian/ 19:06
I would probably ignore step 3 in that
dalek kudo/nom: 9fb93a9 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
Fix lines() returning an empty line at EOF

IO::Handle::lines now behaves exactly like Perl 5's: lines on a file containing "" will return 0 lines. lines on a file containing "\n" will return one line containing "". lines on a file containing "foo" will return one line containing "foo". lines on a file containing "foo\n" will return one line containing "foo". lines on a file containing "foo\nbar" will return two lines. With .chomp set to False on the handle the behavior is the same except for the
  \n still there if it was in the input file.
nine This ^^^ fixes the t/spec/S32-io/pipe.t regression. 19:07
Sadly it also costs quite a bit of performance :/
timotimo damn :(
_itz [ptc]: one of the examples seemed to hang post glr .. I forget details 19:08
maybe *060* something
nine Of course if 3 nqp ops per line is a noticable slow down for you, you can't be doing that much with those lines anyway...
dalek ar: 3051d54 | (Steve Mynott)++ | docs/cheatsheet.txt:
parcel is now list and keep comma
 19:09
ar: 0304600 | lizmat++ | docs/cheatsheet.txt:
Merge pull request #49 from stmuk/master

parcel is now list and keep comma
19:09 lizmat joined, [Coke] joined
timotimo hehe 19:09
19:10 rurban left, rurban joined
[ptc] _itz: yes, there are many which aren't yet working again 19:11
_itz: I'm having a hard time working out what the correct array/list syntax should be so that things wokr again
lizmat waves from home
really
[ptc] *work
o/
_itz [ptc]: yes its not easy :/
lizmat [ptc] o/
moritz _itz: the problem with sar and all the other tools that record to disc is that they typically stop recording when the system becomes unresponsive 19:12
_itz: as happens with collectd, for example (collect.p6c.org/)
[Coke] only 231 views on larry's christmas q&a. Share and Enjoy! ;)
_itz moritz: this is true .. but sar is lightweight and can give insight when compared against cron logs etc
moritz _itz: I'll give it a try 19:13
dalek c: c2fd7e7 | (David H. Adler)++ | lib/Language/regexes.pod:
Added language to specify the default values for C<:c>
 19:14
doc: a5cc58c | (David H. Adler)++ | WANTED:
doc: Added C<srand> and C<state> to WANTED
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_itz votes up on www.reddit.com/r/perl6/ 19:16
bartolin there even is a atop log on hack (which can be replayed with 'atop -r /var/log/atop/atop_20150916'). unfortunately it doesn't have any data after 16:50. Last entry in /var/log/syslog is from 16:58:01. 19:17
dha So. unless and else/elsif are =head3 under if's =head 2. Should with/without get a =head2 or be a =head3 under if as well?
19:18 rurban left, rindolf left 19:19 Util joined
[ptc] Util: did you get my email wrt the parrot.org certifcate? 19:20
Util [ptc]: checking... 19:21
moritz bartolin, _itz: fwiw I'm keeping a htop running on a console, and hope that I can still connnect to that via virt-manager when it freezes the next time
[ptc] I sent it at the end of August. Just wondering if I used the correct address
19:22 domidumont left, kanishka joined
bartolin moritz++ 19:23
_itz can someone do "# adduser stmuk adm" which should just me read access to most of /var/log by adding me to adm group please? 19:24
Util [ptc]: It is the correct address; I think that it just came while I was in the hospital.
bartolin moritz: looks like there is not a single file on hack which was last modified between 17 and 18:55 CEST.
[ptc] Util: oh, ok. Hope you're feeling better now!
Util [ptc]: I will handle it. Thanks for routing it to me, and for the extra reminder.
[ptc] Util: no probs! Thanks for handling it :-) 19:25
bartolin moritz: that makes me think that the disk was completely unavailable
Util [ptc]: Not 100% yet. Part 2 is Friday morning, but I expect nothing more than another week of discomfort, then Look Out World! 19:26
[ptc] Util: :-) 19:27
dalek kudo/nom: 197fbbf | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
Allow for itemization to prevent iteration for statement modfier for

foo() for $@arr; will now iterate only once, just like for $@arr { foo() } Fixes t/spec/S04-statement-modifiers/for.t		 19:31
ast: d72abe5 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | S06-signature/passing-arrays.t:
Need to un-itemize the passed list for for to iterate
ast: 143a705 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | S32-list/squish.t:
Remove obsolete todo markers
nine We're now spec test clean :)
19:31 telex left
bartolin \o/ nine++ 19:32
[ptc] nine++
19:32 telex joined
sjn nine++ 19:33
19:35 thou left
lizmat nine: re 9fb93a9128e45ef227343816dc , I looked at doing that way as well, but decided against that 19:37
I feel the problem is *really* with nqp::eoffh
nine lizmat: I concur
lizmat this solution is fine ad interim, but it slows .lines down with ~ 15% 19:38
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FROGGS lizmat: btw, the old .get did something very similar 19:38
nine lizmat: I had a look at MoarVM source code for readlinefh, but got lost in the layers of abstraction
FROGGS though, if we can update the ops, that'd be awesome 19:39
lizmat ok, so we all agree this is a temp solution... :-) then I'm fine with it (for now :-)
nine lizmat: though I have to repeat: if the 3 additional nqp ops have a measurable performance impact, you cannot be doing all that much with those .lines 19:40
FROGGS problem is that you only will know that you hit the EOF when you tried to read past it...
that's a problem we won't solve
dha pull request filed for with/without. 19:41
FROGGS can't we do something else then 'nqp::not_i(nqp::chars(line))' ?, like nqp::isnull_s(line) or some such?
TimToady m: sub foo (+@args) { say @args.elems }; foo [1..4]; foo [1..4],2 19:42
camelia rakudo-moar 9fb93a: OUTPUT«4␤2␤»
FROGGS I mean, we don't want to know how many chars are in there
[Coke] reminder to everyone who did stuff in the past -two- months, release tomorrow, update the changelog!
nine FROGGS: it's what we do in Str.Bool. If we find something better, we should use it there, too
FROGGS ohh
interesting
[Coke]: aye captain
[Coke] That's Mr. Dr. Captain, to you. 19:43
FROGGS [Coke]: :P
[Coke]: at what time (offset to now) are you probably start cutting the release?
nine TimToady: have you had a look at the gmr branch lately? I'd like to talk about merging :) 19:44
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bartolin moritz: what do you think about configuring a basic remote logging mechanism for hack? like: a copy of all log messages from hack are duplicated and sent to www.p6c.org (e.g.) and are written to /var/log/hack.p6c.org/ there? 19:46
moritz: that shouldn't be too hard and could give some insights ... 19:47
s/are duplicated and/is/ 19:48
dha A thought: instead of documenting LABELs in the docs for each loop construct, put a section on labels between docs for loop constructs and flow control statements. 19:49
[Coke] FROGGS: more than 24 hours from now.
FROGGS [Coke]: very good
[Coke] it will probably take up my evening tomorrow.
psch dha: i think =head3 for with{,out} works better - it's still just a special case, not a new construct
dha psch - me too. Thanks. 19:50
psch oh, but that was already PR'd :)
TimToady nine: I'm okay with gmr, esp if it gets us closer to using real object arrays for sets, etc.
dha Right, I did it that way, but put a comment in the PR so people would notice it and weigh in. Well done! :-) 19:51
lizmat TimToady: you would rather see Sets use an array underneath ?
TimToady s/arrays/hashes/ I meant 19:52
FROGGS m: say "".split: ""
camelia rakudo-moar 9fb93a: OUTPUT«()␤»
FROGGS star-m: say "".split: ""
camelia star-m 2015.03: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
lizmat TimToady: *phew* :-)
TimToady I don't think gmr will get us closer to that: we would need object hash support in the VM to be able to do that 19:53
nine Anyone else seeing occasional "*** Error in `/data/home/nine/install/rakudo/install/bin/moar': double free or corruption (!prev): 0x00007f67d4031a90 ***" during spec test runs? 19:54
FROGGS not since the last moarvm patches
nine I'm on MoarVM master and nqp master from mere minutes ago 19:55
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lizmat nine: going to run a spectest in a mo 19:55
nine lizmat: I seem to be seeing them about once in 3 spec test runs 19:56
[ptc] moritz: looks like the docs and examples builds didn't kill hack.
TimToady m: sub foo (+@args) { say @args.perl }; foo (1..4); foo (1..4),2 19:57
camelia rakudo-moar 197fbb: OUTPUT«[1, 2, 3, 4]␤[1..4, 2]␤»
TimToady there's the bug I mentioned, shouldn't flatten that first onearg 19:58
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nine TimToady: why not? It's an Iterable 19:58
[Coke] nine; you could grep through the previous log/ commits on coke/perl6-roast-data to see. 19:59
TimToady m: sub foo (+@args) { say @args.perl }; foo (1..*); foo (1..*),2 20:00
camelia rakudo-moar 197fbb: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
TimToady m: sub foo (+@args) { say @args.perl }; foo (1..*),2
camelia rakudo-moar 197fbb: OUTPUT«[1..Inf, 2]␤»
TimToady a slurpy should handle an infinite list 20:01
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nine Ah infinity... I'm a plumber, but what I plumb is the fruit of infinity. I'm deeper than infinity, so infinite I make infinity look like a four. 20:03
dalek kudo/nom: 0d8da86 | FROGGS++ | docs/ChangeLog:
add my changes to the changelog
 20:04
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dha Pull request for LINEs added. 20:06
jdv79 nine: what
FROGGS nine is just a four letter word 20:07
nine jdv79: obviously you are not familiar with Horse the Band :)
jdv79 nope
dha Me neither.
lizmat nine: I just see a failure in t/spec/S06-signature/passing-arrays.t (repeatble)
not ok 4 - count2((1,2,3)) ( expected 3, got 1) 20:08
nine lizmat: I fixed that?
lizmat ah... oops
nine lizmat: roast commit 143a7057c6630a1a893e731f591db819823d3209
lizmat i had some changes in spec that blocked the spectest update 20:09
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timotimo FROGGS: i suggest "calling methods" rather than "calling method" 20:31
dha Hm. Anyone have a concise example using C<redo> off the top of their heads?
FROGGS timotimo: now it sounds less russian :D 20:32
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FROGGS dha: I've never used it 20:32
jdv79 ditto
dha Me neither. But it needs to be documented. :-)
FROGGS hehe
jdv79 maybe just steal from p5's docs and adjust when/if needed? 20:33
dha Fortunately, I can take the description from perl 5, as it hasn't changed. But I was trying to come up with a simple example that didn't involve reading a file.
dalek kudo/nom: 3c0cd8a | FROGGS++ | docs/ChangeLog:
fix grammar-o in changelog, timotimo++
jdv79 ha
dha which is what the p5 example does.
I can't wait until later when the NY.pm meeting happens and people can tell me how much Perl 6 sucks. THAT'LL be fun. 20:34
jdv79 make sure to get the real whys 20:35
if any. may be useful.
dha Oh, In intend to.
dha even has a pen and a notebook with him.
timotimo will one notebook suffice? 20:36
dha It's a so far unused notebook. 20:37
240 pages. It's a start.
Hm. I think the p5 example for redo is confusing. That will not help. 20:40
jdv79 my naive guess is that redo is not particularly useful/applicable 20:41
dha Shall I put that in the docs? :-) 20:42
psch m: my $x; for ^2 { unless $x { $x = 2; redo }; $x *= $x }; say $x # intended as a "we want to loop now, but restart if we haven't initialized" kind of example...
camelia rakudo-moar 0d8da8: OUTPUT«16␤»
dha "Eh. don't bother."
jdv79 probably not
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psch redo seems like a very TIMTOWTDI op 20:42
(not sure if the 3rd T is conventional :P ) 20:43
skids dha: you could use a bit of humor and make a "redo" that's cheating at a game by redrawing cards when it gets one it does not like.
dha skids - I like the idea, but I don't think it qualifies as "concise" 20:44
psch as in, conventional code just checks first in a case like i made up if everything is set up properly, instead of looping already and restarting when it doesn't like the current state
20:44 rindolf left
psch m: my $x; #`[[ ... stuff ... ]]; unless $x { $x = 2 }; for ^2 { $x *= $x }; say $x # same example redo-less 20:45
camelia rakudo-moar 0d8da8: OUTPUT«16␤»
psch well, except for the inline comment :)
dha psch - hm. Maybe. Takes a bit of thought, but it might do.
20:45 telex left
psch dha: yeah, redo seems very foresight-y, fwiw 20:46
20:46 telex joined
psch as in, it's something that we have done differently for ages, but maybe this way makes more sense in the future 20:46
skids m: my @deck; for (^5) { $draw = <j q k a joker>.pick; redo if $draw eq joker; @deck[$_] = $draw }; @deck.say;
camelia rakudo-moar 0d8da8: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/94OKBxl1VE␤Variable '$draw' is not declared␤at /tmp/94OKBxl1VE:1␤------> 3my @deck; for (^5) { 7⏏5$draw = <j q k a joker>.pick; redo if $d␤»
skids m: my @deck; for (^5) { my $draw = <j q k a joker>.pick; redo if $draw eq joker; @deck[$_] = $draw }; @deck.say;
camelia rakudo-moar 0d8da8: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/bDEAVcOmbX␤Undeclared routine:␤ joker used at line 1␤␤»
skids ah anyway.
20:47 telex left
psch m: my @deck; for (^5) { my $draw = <j q k a joker>.pick; redo if $draw eq 'joker'; @deck[$_] = $draw }; @deck.say; 20:47
camelia rakudo-moar 0d8da8: OUTPUT«[q j a a j]␤»
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dha do we have a pastebot? 20:50
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timotimo what does "pastebot" mean? 20:52
mst is there a conversation going on about redo in here?
all the help channels I'm in are getting spammed with questions about it at once
timotimo some place you can paste to that'll automatically put the url to the paste in the channel?
skids We already redid it.
mst dha: no, but is soembody +o's themselves and runs /invite shadowpaste, you will do 20:53
jdv79 dha: why aren't the with/without docs on the site?
timotimo easy 20:54
the site is without docs
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psch mst: the conversation was mostly about a decent doc'ing example 20:56
mst well, the answer from the perl5 community would be "we don't have one because any code using redo can be better written as next/last, we're not sure why perl6 even has it"
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jdv79 i think that sentiment is mirrored in here 20:57
dha mst - sadly, I'm in the position of writing documentation, so I don't have the luxury of not caring if no one uses it.
jdv79 can we dump it?
mst dha: document it as "I've no idea why we kept this mistake from perl5" and move on? 20:58
dha jdv79 - I put in a pull request for with/without and some other stuff.
mst anybody who doesn't think it's a mistake gets to provide an example :)
dha mst - this *has* been suggested. :-)
skids Why? There are those that would say any given procedural code can be better rewritten in functional style.
jdv79 should tht heading be with/orwith/without or something (mainly include orwith somehow) - idk
lizmat jdv79: there is one use of redo in metaops.pm
psch m: my @a = ^5; for @a <-> $_ { my $x = rand; redo if $x == 1; $_ *= $x }; say @a # 20:59
camelia rakudo-moar 3c0cd8: OUTPUT«[0 0.521163143544048 1.86028883437111 0.849965206429773 2.07568271585023]␤»
psch not sure how i do that with "next"
...if i'm confusing rand and it doesn't go to 1, make that a 0
mst while 1 { my $x = rand; next if $x == 1; $_ *= $x; last; } 21:00
dha www.panix.com/~dha/test/redo.txt
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mst also now you can replace 1 with some sort of rate limiter so you don't end up going round the loop again and again and again and again 21:01
jdv79 dha: maybe gist.github.com is what you were looking for
dha jdv79 - I had thought about that. If people think adding orwith, I would do so. Is there an orwithout?
skids mst: The point you miss is you can iterate naively at the top of the loop and have your iterator restored.
mst psch: but really that seems highly contrivbed
skids: no, I'm not missing that point, please don't assume I'm stupid or I'm not going to keep helping 21:02
dha jdv79 - I guess that would be an option. I guess I was just told that for actual patching I should put in pull requests rather than gisting and then adding it to the docs directly, so I was a little gist-shy.
jdv79 dha: orwith is in the example - just not the head - no big deal
mst I have written code that uses redo. I have then rewritten it to use next/last because it was a silly idea. 21:03
dha Yeah. But *is* there an orwithout?
mst I know how it works, I've just never found a situation where it turned out to be a good plan in the long run
jdv79 orwith is just elsif so i'd guess no
psch mst: you're multiplying 1 by rand, i'm multiplying 0..4
skids shuts up as there are obviously some bad moods for some weird reason, time to decommute anyway.
psch mst++ # fueling the fir^Wdiscussion 21:04
mst psch: I was attempting to translate psuedocode
psch: my response was expected to be imperfect
21:04 skids left
Skarsnik Hello, what is the proper way to solve soemthing like class A { has B $.b}; class B { has stuff}; ? 21:08
cognominal I wonder what is the strange attractor that often transforms pseudocode into psuedocode...
mst psch: but, yeah, my point is that for any real, actual, code, I've ended up rewriting it
psch: unsure if your example counts there, I can't see a reason why I'd want to do that for real, but that doesn't mean somebody else couldn't have a reason 21:09
timotimo Skarsnik: just put a "class B { ... }" in front of class A
Skarsnik just { ... } or with the proper definition? I mean in that case how to solve class A { has B $.b } class B { has A $.a}? 21:12
timotimo no, just { ... }
jdv79 q
timotimo with three dots in there
jdv79 oops
timotimo that's how you declare a stubbed class in perl6
dha so, assuming I'm not just going to write "=head2 redo\n\nFOR THE LOVE OF GOD WHY????", what do people think of www.panix.com/~dha/test/redo.txt ? 21:13
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mst right, but that's a "don't do that" example 21:15
timotimo how about user interaction?
"please input a number"?
mst oooh, yes, I've done that and it actually wasn't terrible 21:16
I did eventually rewrite it with 'last if' instead of 'redo unless'
Skarsnik timotimo, ok, thank you :)
timotimo you're welcome :) 21:17
mst but I'm pretty sure that was as I added features
and the original version with redo wasn't actually evil
i.e. I outgrew it, but it didn't originally suck
timotimo++ # good call
{ my $x = prompt("Enter a number"); redo unless is_a_number($x) } 21:18
timotimo thank you :)
mst dha: ^^ solved 21:19
dha Yay!
timotimo i'm glad you're hanging out in here, mst :)
Skarsnik Is there a proper document about type and perl6 btw? Sometime rakudo surprise me by checking thing at compile time and sometime it fail at the execution 21:20
dha timotimo++
timotimo one good guideline is "we can never typecheck on method calls, except for private methods"
i mean
check at compile time
Skarsnik even if you put the type of a var? (sorry I close my vm with perl6 stuff on it) I remember time where it does not always fail a compile time when calling a bad method (or affecting attribute with a know type) 21:24
masak mst: that works, but it still needs to be a `repeat { } while False` loop or something
mst: not just a block, because a block ain't a loop
timotimo the thing about methods is that they are late-bound and perl6 does not restrict the signature of methods in derived classes 21:25
mst masak: oh, right, you can redo a block in perl5
masak aye
mst I was mostly illustrating the idea
as with the while loop
masak IIUC, blocks are loops in Perl 5 'cus that's how the `do {} while` and `do {} until` loops can actually loop
timotimo so even if you have "my Str $foo" somewhere, a method call could reach a method in "class Flurb is Str { ... }" and the signature may be completely different
masak timotimo: correct 21:26
mst masak: works with plain blocks too, so I'm not sure that's quite it
masak hm.
mst which generally one discovers by adding an inner scope to part of a foreach body and then forgetting you now need a loop label to use with next 21:27
so, um, not necessarily claiming it's a good idea, just that it's there :)
timotimo Skarsnik: on the other hand with subs, all candidates for the sub call are known at compile time - this also applies to operators of all kinds, as they do the same kind of multi-dispatch as regular subs and they live in the same namespace, too
muraiki Skarsnik: this presentation helped me grok why methods are late bound in p6: jnthn.net/papers/2015-fosdem-static-dynamic.pdf 21:28
timotimo having methods be late-bound doesn't force this "problem" on you, but in perl6 we've made the trade-off in the opposite direction from - for example - C++ 21:29
dha I have got pull requests coming out of my ears today... 21:36
masak your ears are sending you pull requests? :P 21:37
masak .oO( patch to make user listen more )
jdv79 first sucessful p6 cpan upload of a well formed dist file
timotimo are you sure you're the first?
didn't froggs or lizmat do that a few months back?
jdv79 since pause blocked it before the bug i fixed pretty sure 21:38
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timotimo oh 21:38
Skarsnik another dumb question is there an equivalent of the 'struct' keywoard of c++ (it's justact like class but put everything public by default)?
timotimo yes, you can put "is rw" after the class name
jdv79 slowly shaping up
timotimo otherwise you can put "is rw" on individual attributes, too
Skarsnik Oh after the class name :)
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timotimo and if your class is "is rw", you can "is ro" (or is it "is readonly"?) on individual attributes, too 21:38
Skarsnik yes but it's pretty annoying/boring x)
timotimo :) 21:39
lizmat timotimo: FROGGS probably, not me
timotimo mhm
jdv79 the preview uploads had files in the root of the tar instead of a subdir of the same name - details... 21:40
timotimo oh
i see
jdv79 but details count in the end:)
cpan eco stuff likes that - plus its polite to not tarbomb 21:41
timotimo aye
jdv79 i tried a quick, albeit dumb, fix for the qt size thing 21:43
but it OOM'ed my box so...
the real fix is probably to use a real C json lib in there 21:44
timotimo uh oh
probably :\
jdv79 my C sucks pretty hard
otherwise i would have done it 21:45
timotimo thank you for caring, in aany case :)
jdv79 if nobody else does in ?2? weeks i might
well, its kinda ridiculous that a profile is unusable
we need something proper like Devel::NYTProf 21:46
timotimo well
jdv79 maybe tim bunce could do that instead of DBI. we have Inline::Perl5. but no real profiler.
timotimo here's the thing
we construct a full call graph for measurements
i have a branch in moarvm that kicks in after a specific depth of call graph and will sum up values 21:47
we don't need a call graph of depth >10 in most cases, certainly not >15
sadly, that branch leads to wrong results :\
if that branch gets fixed by someone (*cough*), it could make the html version of the profiler usable for pretty much all data we have 21:48
jdv79 what gets thrown away?
timotimo nothing
things just get summed up
21:48 FROGGS left
jdv79 ok 21:48
timotimo well, measured frames don't have "the right" parent any more if they are too deep in the call graph 21:49
Skarsnik That was another question btw. Is there something to profile code? I try to figure what is f** slow in HTML::Parser::XML
timotimo yes, perl6 --profile foo.pm
jdv79 Skarsnik: my guess is the grammar part
Skarsnik There is no grammar
jdv79 huh. i remember its super slow. guess i misremembered why.
timotimo has forgotten what HTML::Parser::XML itself does exactly 21:50
Skarsnik It look like a C algorythm for most of the stuff
parse a html document and produce a XML object
jdv79 i think it takes maybe 10s to parse yahoo.com 21:51
timotimo mhm
jdv79 its pretty terrible - at least last i tried it
timotimo mhm
well, we're hoping to make all parts of rakudo and friends faster
jdv79 Skarsnik: you could try the moarvm profiler 21:53
if its small its useable
ugexe Skarsnik: github.com/supernovus/exemel/blob/...rammar.pm6
this is a grammar used by HTML::Parser::XML
jdv79 ugexe: does it still? 21:54
i don't see where atm
Skarsnik not it does not 21:55
dalek kudo/nom: 0091cee | TimToady++ | src/core/List.pm:
+slurpy needs a decont, not a .list
Skarsnik *no
leont It seems precompilation is breaking my exported sub, is that a known issue?
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timotimo huh, we have precompilation? 21:56
:P
ugexe th eonly thing that doesnt precompile is panda :P
timotimo yup, zef still does it
Skarsnik pastebin.com/TYV7XsEW each test took around 800 sec ~~ 21:57
ugexe and yes im assuming HTML::Parser::XML still uses a grammar since it still usees XML.pm. It doesnt call .Grammar directly but that doesnt mean it doesnt use a grammar
Grammar.parse() directly rather
Skarsnik I spend some time fixing stuff in this module. It parse everything itself ~~ 21:58
jdv79 ah ha
ugexe no it doesnt
Skarsnik XML can't parse HTML document btw ^^ 21:59
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ugexe hence HTML::Parser::XML 21:59
jdv79 Skarsnik: profile it and see:)
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jdv79 --profile 21:59
lizmat sleep&
Skarsnik it's taking forever huhu 22:00
jdv79 wait til you try to load the output
try to make it the smallest run useful maybe
Skarsnik I edit the test to only do one parse ^^ 22:01
ugexe i think he means when you profile it 22:02
dalek kudo/nom: 7c20517 | TimToady++ | src/core/List.pm:
Revert "+slurpy needs a decont, not a .list"

This reverts commit 0091cee765e067ccfc545b56b5a15dc8cda563d0, which was dumb.
jdv79 yup
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leont The precompiling makes rather a difference in my use-case (TAP::Harness), but its issues are annoying 22:04
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jdv79 ok, 35s for yahoo 22:09
ugh
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Skarsnik profiling even one try of my benchmark was not a good idea xD 22:11
ugexe leont: i had a similar problem (although slightly different). seems related to the new use of CompUnit for loading modules 22:13
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jdv79 Skarsnik: looks like a lot of the top offenders are core things 22:17
ugexe if you load from a CompUnitRepo::Local::File i dont think it will even load the precompiled file if the source is found
jdv79 didn't look too closely though
ugexe github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...pm#L42-L47 22:18
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leont Given speed differences, I'm pretty sure it's loading the precompiled one 22:23
ugexe not that i dont believe it, but not having to export a bunch of symbols would speed it up as well 22:26
well, s/not having to export/not exporting/ 22:27
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leont I doubt that's the main factor here, given how little I export (and how big the packages are) 22:31
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ugexe i had a similar problem yesterday with CURLI and it would only attempt to load the first module 22:33
but that was with source or precompiled
s/or/and/
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ugexe looked like it was attempting to load with the wrong module loader 22:35
RAKUDO_MODULE_DEBUG=1 will show you
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tony-o Skarsnik: the HTML you're referencing is very very poorly formed, i wouldn't expect to be able to parse it into XML. there are close tags for elements that don't exist 23:07
the fact that you get anything from HTML::Parser::XML at all is kind of cool. 23:08
Skarsnik the modules crashed or missed stuff before I made the two fix ^^ 23:09
tony-o the part your github issue references is because you have an unclosed <div> on that page, HTML::Parser::XML is kind of doing you the favor of just closing it an returning what i did parse
crashing might be a better option. then you at least know your html is .. poorly formed.
validator.w3.org/nu/?doc=http%3A%2...pyfav.html 23:10
timotimo i bet 99.99999999% of html on the 'web is malformed :) 23:11
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tony-o timotimo: this is beyond malformed, though. even chrome doesn't parse this 23:12
although i agree with what you're saying.
Skarsnik Funny because the module get all the hierarchy right before the form 23:14
skids
.oO(web developers have good reason to be certifiable)
Skarsnik it's taken from www.fimfiction.net/bookshelf/751448/favourites (the module take forever to parse this ^^) 23:15
ugexe in perl 5 land i think a separate module does the cleaning of HTML before parsing 23:17
Skarsnik There are like 4000+ module to parse HTML probably too 23:18
ugexe so
im sure everyone wouuld welcome an HTML cleaning module 23:19
tony-o Skarsnik: there are stray '</[b|i|etc>' tags all over the place in the example html page you provided, one of the div tags isn't closed anywhere in the document, chrome renders this page in a way that is inconsistent with the way this html looks like it's meant to be rendered by the author. minor complaints about the html are that it claims to be html5 though it has no head or body tag, it also claims to be xhtml which it most
ugexe sorta like how perl 5 web::scraper cant properly scrape espns html even WITH cleaning 23:20
well, parse rather
timotimo "xhtm which it most" ... "definitely isn't"?
i thought head and body tags are still optional in html5?
Skarsnik I maybe remove them ~~ 23:21
tony-o timotimo: A body element's start tag may be omitted if the element is empty, or if the first thing inside the body element is not a space character or a comment, except if the first thing inside the body element is a meta, link, script, style, or template element. 23:22
timotimo ah 23:23
so a <head> can just turn into the <body> section of the document when a <h1> for example appears?
tony-o i think it's still optional, it just depends on how the document is formed
that's how i read it, yea
timotimo funny 23:24
Skarsnik tony-o, pastebin.com/5R2EBPYc what the module produce with this page, but chrome/iceweasel still get the right tree with the mistakes. The </b> </i> came from the page having stuff like <i blablab /> 23:29
tony-o what do you expect to see as the last div> 23:30
?
Skarsnik also it tend to create extra xml::text with only space/tab/cariage return
the extra_story_data should be in the first div, not outside 23:31
tony-o should be the first div of what and not outside of what?
your first div is story_container 23:32
Skarsnik yes, extra_story_data must be in story_container
tony-o mm, i think maybe that patch made it work but is concealing a bug rather than fixing. i see what you mean - i'll take a look at it 23:33
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Skarsnik actually the module creating extra xml::text was annoying when writing test. a simple <table><tr>d</tr><tr>d</tr></table> has more than 2 elements for the table element if you put indentation ~~ 23:37
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Skarsnik well the .node attribute has more than 2 things 23:37
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Skarsnik Anyways, good night here ^^ 23:40
tony-o it's useful for formatting the XML doc back into a string. good night
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