»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by masak on 12 May 2015.
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dalek kudo-star-daily: eedd1b6 | coke++ | log/ (8 files):
today (automated commit)
 00:22
rl6-roast-data: 309c546 | coke++ | / (9 files):
today (automated commit)
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hartenfels Hey y'all, could someone give me some hints on this failure thing? 00:26
m: my Int $x = fail 'important error message';
camelia ( no output )
hartenfels Huh, that's a different output. I get ``Type check failed in assignment to $x; expected Int but got Failure'', without telling me what or where the failure occurred. 00:27
Am I using that failure wrong or does the message just get eaten? 00:28
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pink_mist (note: I won't be able to help you no matter your answer to this question, but if your answer is no, maybe try upgrading) are you on the latest git commit? 00:30
hartenfels pink_mist Upgrading right now, gonna try it again. 00:33
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hartenfels Nope, still the same. 00:33
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hartenfels m: my Int $x = fail 'important error message'; say $x 00:33
camelia ( no output )
hartenfels m: say 'something' 00:35
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«something␤»
hartenfels Seems like error output is being eaten entirely? 00:36
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hartenfels Okay, I guess the REPL made the output different. 00:54
So my question again:
m: sub s { fail 'important error message' }; my $x = s; say $x;
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«important error message␤ in sub s at /tmp/Ary_QWBF0l:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Ary_QWBF0l:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Ary_QWBF0l:1␤␤»
hartenfels sub s { fail 'important error message' }; my Int $x = s; say $x;
m: sub s { fail 'important error message' }; my Int $x = s; say $x; 00:55
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to $x; expected Int but got Failure␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/wR8nS70PqD:1␤␤»
hartenfels Am I using failures wrong, with the Int type check? It seems to eat my error message.
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[Coke] m: say "\c[GREEK QUESTION MARK]" eq "\c[SEMICOLON]" 01:10
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«True␤»
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[Coke] m: sub s { fail 'important error message' }; my Int $x = +s; say $x; 01:12
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«important error message␤ in sub s at /tmp/_6ymSC4C5H:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/_6ymSC4C5H:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/_6ymSC4C5H:1␤␤»
[Coke] assigning it doesn't count as using it.
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hartenfels [Coke] Thanks, that works for numbers and such. 01:18
But I'm hesitant to use types if it means that exceptions get eaten on assignment. 01:20
ShimmerFairy Well, arguably it should tell you what the Failure's message is, (and arguably assigning it to a variable is, in fact, using it :P)
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hartenfels I guess I might should file a bug report against Rakudo then. 01:21
And let it be rejected if it's intentional that way. 01:22
ShimmerFairy Maybe it could be solved by printing the Failure's message whenever a Failure pops up in an exception? e.g. q[expected Int but got Failure ("important error message")] as the error message?
hartenfels It sure would.
And the failure location too.
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hartenfels Filed a bug for it, thanks for y'all's help. 01:43
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et09 hi - i have very loose perl experience but strong experience in a few other languages (haskell/ruby/python/js/etc)... my perl experience boils down to "regexes" and "reading about @ vs $" and "there are a lot of variables that are one character and start with $" 02:44
where should i start with perl 6 if i want to learn it
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llfourn et09: I'd say just play around with it, seeing as you have a lot of languages under your belt I'd say rosettacode.org/wiki/Rosetta_Code would be a great place to start 02:54
compare the Perl 6 examples with what you are used to :) 02:55
also if you find one that doesn't work anymore -- tell us about it :) 02:56
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dalek c: e711b93 | (Ben Noordhuis)++ | doc/Language/syntax.pod:
Fix typos in syntax documentation.
 03:00
c: 07c82ec | (Ben Noordhuis)++ | doc/Language/syntax.pod:
Remove blob literal section.

Blob literals are described in S02 but the section in syntax.pod uses the wrong syntax and blob literals don't appear to be implemented in Rakudo or tested for in Roast. Avoid confusion, remove the section.
c: 8eb6d9d | LLFourn++ | doc/Language/syntax.pod:
Merge pull request #170 from bnoordhuis/blob-literals

Remove blob literal section.
tokuhiro_ Is there a 'sub import' equivalent for perl6? 03:10
I want to do some DSL-ish work on Perl6
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hartenfels tokuhiro_ There's EXPORT: doc.perl6.org/language/modules#EXPORT 03:12
tokuhiro_ oh!
Thanks! 03:13
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[Coke] m: 756 X/ ( gather for (1,2,3,4,6).combinations(3) { take [+] |$_ })).grep:{$_.narrow ~~ Int} # perl6, great for solving ken ken puzzles. 03:41
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/FBA1V8Kju7␤Unexpected closing bracket␤at /tmp/FBA1V8Kju7:1␤------> 033,4,6).combinations(3) { take [+] |$_ })7⏏5).grep:{$_.narrow ~~ Int} # perl6, great␤»
[Coke] m: (756 X/ ( gather for (1,2,3,4,6).combinations(3) { take [+] |$_ })).grep:{$_.narrow ~~ Int} # perl6, great for solving ken ken puzzles.
camelia ( no output )
[Coke] m: say (756 X/ ( gather for (1,2,3,4,6).combinations(3) { take [+] |$_ })).grep:{$_.narrow ~~ Int} # perl6, great for solving ken ken puzzles, dammit
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(126 108 84 84 63)␤»
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[Coke] (1,2,3,4,6).combinations(3) 03:46
ww.
llfourn [Coke]: you can remove the gather/take 03:47
m: say (756 X/ ( for (1,2,3,4,6).combinations(3) { [+] |$_ })).grep: { .narrow ~~ Int }
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(126 108 84 84 63)␤»
[Coke] ah. without the parens, the gather take was needed. 03:49
(also missing a sort/unique, but that's fine)
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[Coke] (and there's a typo in there, whoops) 03:57
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llfourn m: 9 X/ (1,2,3) 03:58
camelia ( no output )
llfourn m: say 9 X/ (1,2,3) 03:59
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(9 4.5 3)␤»
llfourn m: say (9 X/ (1,2,3)).map: { .narrow }
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(9 4.5 3)␤»
llfourn m: say (9 X/ (1,2,3)).map: { .WHAT,.narrow } 04:00
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(((Rat) 9) ((Rat) 4.5) ((Rat) 3))␤»
llfourn m: say (9 X/ (1,2,3)).map: { .WHAT,.narrow.WHAT }
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(((Rat) (Int)) ((Rat) (Rat)) ((Rat) (Int)))␤»
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llfourn is beggining to understand 04:01
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et09 why would you store a sub as a variable in p6 04:42
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llfourn et09: same reason you might store a function as a variable in JS 04:42
et09 gotcha
to emulate OOP ;)
(scratches head) 04:43
llfourn et09: well...maybe. OOP is very flexible in p6 so you can usually get the objects classes to do what you want.
et09: but you could store a sub in a variable and pass it as an argument for later use 04:44
et09 i was just trying to think of a use case...since p6 has actual classes
learnxinyminutes.com/docs/perl6/ reading this, 15% down... looks great 04:45
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llfourn et09: yeah I mean callbacks are just useful. Often you don't use subs but blocks {} or pointy blocks -> {}. 04:47
et09 i see 04:48
llfourn m: my $filter = { $_ %% 2 }; grep $filter,^20;
camelia ( no output )
et09 are they like lambdas?
llfourn m: my $filter = { $_ %% 2 }; say grep $filter,^20;
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(0 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18)␤»
llfourn et09: yes
et09 $_ is like $@ in zsh?
or $1? 04:49
llfourn good question
m: say { 'a block' }
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«-> ;; $_? is raw { #`(Block|70668824) ... }␤»
et09 uhh
llfourn so a block is just a bit of code with one argument which is $_
et09 ohh.
llfourn in perl5 it was a bit different 04:50
et09 and that grep thing...a range ?
llfourn m: 0..20 ~~ ^20
camelia ( no output )
llfourn m: say 0..20 ~~ ^20 04:51
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«False␤»
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llfourn m: say 0..5; say ^5 04:51
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«0..5␤0..^5␤»
llfourn m: say (0..5 ~~ ^5)
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«False␤»
llfourn ok I thought that would be true. But yeh 0..5 is the same as ^5. 04:52
et09 wow
llfourn (that might be a bug)
m: say 0..5 ~~ 0..5 04:53
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«True␤»
et09 m: my $filter = {$_.uc}; say grep $filter,'A'..'Z';
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z)␤»
et09 phew, first guess ! 04:54
llfourn et09: yes that works though what you wrote doesn't make much sense :)
m: say map { .uc }, 'a'..'z'; 04:55
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z)␤»
et09 m: my $filter = {ord $_ %% 2 == 0 ?? $_ !! $_.uc}; say grep $filter,'A'..'Z';
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«Earlier failures:␤ Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '7⏏5A' (indicated by 7⏏)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/cSDBJoqur0:1␤␤Final error:␤ Cannot call Real(Failure: ); none of these signature…»
llfourn m: say 'a'.ord
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«97␤»
et09 how would grep not add something onto the filter then?
m: my $filter = {$_.ord %% 2 == 0 ?? $_ !! $_.uc}; say grep $filter,'A'..'Z'; 04:56
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z)␤»
et09 what am i doing wrong
04:56 baest_ is now known as baest
et09 want it to alternate every other capitalized 04:56
llfourn map { .ord %% 2 ?? $_ !! .uc },'a'..'z';
m: map { .ord %% 2 ?? $_ !! .uc },'a'..'z';
camelia ( no output )
llfourn m: say map { .ord %% 2 ?? $_ !! .uc },'a'..'z'; 04:57
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(A b C d E f G h I j K l M n O p Q r S t U v W x Y z)␤»
llfourn is that what you are trying to do?
et09 ohh yes, the dot method
man that's cool
m: my $filter = {$_.ord %% 2 == 0 ?? $_ !! $_.uc}; say grep $filter,'a'..'z';
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z)␤»
et09 m: my $filter = {.ord %% 2 == 0 ?? $_ !! .uc}; say grep $filter,'a'..'z';
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z)␤»
llfourn do map :) 04:58
et09 m: my $filter = {.ord %% 2 ?? $_ !! .uc}; say grep $filter,'a'..'z';
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y z)␤»
llfourn grep is like shell grep
et09 is that causing the problem?
llfourn grep is simply a filter
it doesn't change values
et09 oh...
ohh
hah, ok
llfourn so your filter returns true for each element so it passes the original value through :\
et09 whoops 04:59
is there equiv to ruby .times do ? 05:00
or .each
AlexDaniel llfourn: ^ means that it is not inclusive
llfourn each is basically map
et09 yeah
AlexDaniel m: say join ' ', 'a'..^'z' 05:01
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«a b c d e f g h i j k l m n o p q r s t u v w x y␤»
llfourn m: for ^5 { .say }
AlexDaniel llfourn: so it is not a bug
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤»
llfourn AlexDaniel: yep thanks
AlexDaniel: is there an inclusive one?
et09 m: say 'a' x 3
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«aaa␤»
et09 aha....
AlexDaniel m: say 0..4 ~~ ^5
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«True␤»
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AlexDaniel so it works 05:02
et09 m: say map {.ord %% 3 x $_},'a'..z'
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/GvKHqBFiaf␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/GvKHqBFiaf:1␤------> 3say map {.ord %% 3 x $_},'a'..z7⏏5'␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement …»
llfourn AlexDaniel: \o/
et09 m: say map {$_.ord % 3 x $_},'a'..z'
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/PYNHuohsSc␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/PYNHuohsSc:1␤------> 3say map {$_.ord % 3 x $_},'a'..z7⏏5'␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement…»
et09 m: say map {($_.ord % 3) x $_},'a'..z'
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/x5q6duNfxi␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/x5q6duNfxi:1␤------> 3say map {($_.ord % 3) x $_},'a'..z7⏏5'␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ stateme…»
et09 hmm
AlexDaniel llfourn: actually, I'm not sure. Perhaps you have to write 0.. then
or whatever your starting point is 05:03
hm
m: say join ' ', ^'z'
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«Earlier failures:␤ Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '7⏏5z' (indicated by 7⏏)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/s6OhAJ1gkY:1␤␤Final error:␤ Cannot call Real(Failure: ); none of these signature…»
et09 two terms in a row...
llfourn AlexDaniel: cool thanks anyways
et09 m: say map {($_.ord % 3) x $_},'a'..'z'
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '7⏏5a' (indicated by 7⏏)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/pTBdcX23YR:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/pTBdcX23YR:1␤␤»
llfourn et09: what are you trying to do? 05:04
et09 repeat char n times based on mod 3 of ord
AlexDaniel et09: other way round
et09 oh
m: say map {$_ x ($_.ord % 3) },'a'..'z'
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(a bb d ee g hh j kk m nn p qq s tt v ww y zz)␤»
et09 m: say map {$_ x ($_.ord % 3 + 1) },'a'..'z'
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(aa bbb c dd eee f gg hhh i jj kkk l mm nnn o pp qqq r ss ttt u vv www x yy zzz)␤»
et09 now we're cooking 05:05
that's amazing, string multiplication
AlexDaniel m: say map {$_ x (($_.ord - 1) % 3 + 1) },'a'..'z'
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(a bb ccc d ee fff g hh iii j kk lll m nn ooo p qq rrr s tt uuu v ww xxx y zz)␤»
et09 m: say map {$_ x ($_.ord % 15 + 1) },'a'..'z'
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(aaaaaaaa bbbbbbbbb cccccccccc ddddddddddd eeeeeeeeeeee fffffffffffff gggggggggggggg hhhhhhhhhhhhhhh i jj kkk llll mmmmm nnnnnn ooooooo pppppppp qqqqqqqqq rrrrrrrrrr sssssssssss tttttttttttt uuuuuuuuuuuuu vvvvvvvvvvvvvv wwwwwwwwwwwwwww x yy zzz)␤»
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et09 m: say map {$_ x ($_.ord % 15 + 1) },shuffle 'a'..'z' 05:06
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmIFpMaBoD␤Undeclared routine:␤ shuffle used at line 1␤␤»
et09 ah it's in a module
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AlexDaniel m: say 'a'..'Z' 05:07
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«"a".."Z"␤»
AlexDaniel m: say list('a'..'Z')
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«()␤»
AlexDaniel hah
m: say join ' ', 'a'..'Z' 05:08
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«␤»
et09 ok thanks, good night
05:08 et09 left
AlexDaniel hm, I wonder what's that 05:08
llfourn m: say ('a'..'z').pick(26)
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(v k y s o c q d l h w b p e g a j r u n z t m i f x)␤»
llfourn m: say ('a'..'z').pick(*) # better 05:09
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(u g x p m w o l v r s n b e q t h k d f j z c i a y)␤»
AlexDaniel not that my request was clever in any way, but I wonder if empty list is the right answer :) 05:10
llfourn AlexDaniel: what's your request? 05:11
AlexDaniel llfourn: give me a list of characters from 'a' to 'Z'!
:))
llfourn AlexDaniel: ah...
AlexDaniel m: say ('Z'..'a').list 05:12
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(Z [ \ ] ^ _ ` a)␤»
AlexDaniel ah, it's regular ascii stuff then?
llfourn wut
AlexDaniel ok
llfourn AlexDaniel: ahh so because captials come first doh
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llfourn m: say 'A'..'z'; 05:13
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«"A".."z"␤»
llfourn :)
AlexDaniel m: say join ' ', ('a'..'｢').list # Ooowwww… 05:14
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camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 05:15
moritz m: say join ' ', 'a' ... '｢' 05:16
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«␤»
AlexDaniel oh that's my favorite stuff 05:17
m: say chr -1
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«chr codepoint cannot be negative␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/RdPRf8slzU:1␤␤»
AlexDaniel m: say chr -0.999
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«␀␤»
AlexDaniel m: say chr -0.99999999999999999999999999999999999 05:18
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«chr codepoint cannot be negative␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/eNmQxDkWPX:1␤␤»
AlexDaniel m: say chr -0.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«␀␤»
AlexDaniel m: say chr -0.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«chr codepoint cannot be negative␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/SIzzA6BLfm:1␤␤»
AlexDaniel and so on :)
Elyan hey 05:19
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nine .tell lizmat I feel like timotimo++ there. Supply.await not waiting for anything feels strange. What it does is more like a for-await, since what it gives you can be used with await. I'd rather call it .Promise, too. 05:57
yoleaux nine: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
nine .tell lizmat or if coercion is not the mechanism we're after (I'm undecided on that), something completely different. Maybe "waiter" ;) 05:58
yoleaux nine: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
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[Tux] test 50000 37.605 37.493 06:03
test-t 50000 38.816 38.703
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timotimo FWIW, there's already a whole bunch of methods to go between different kinds of our async/multithreaded things 07:19
of course i can't come up with good examples for naming right now 07:22
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RabidGravy morning! 08:13
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azawawi hi #perl6 08:19
is there an 'assert' keyword in Perl 6?
FROGGS_ no 08:20
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moritz it's an infix called "or die" :-) 08:20
azawawi github.com/azawawi/perl6-selenium-...les/ex01.t # First test :) 08:21
FROGGS_ ohh, nice 08:22
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azawawi automated headless website testing in Perl 6 :) 08:22
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FROGGS_ m: my @a = 1,2,3; my @b; @b.push: @a,; dd @b 08:24
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«Array @b = [[1, 2, 3],]␤»
FROGGS_ m: my @a = 1,2,3; my @b; @b.push: @a; dd @b
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«Array @b = [[1, 2, 3],]␤»
08:25 dakkar joined
FROGGS_ m: my @a = 1,2,3; my @b; @b.append: @a,; dd @b 08:25
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«Array @b = [1, 2, 3]␤»
FROGGS_ m: my @a = 1,2,3; my @b; @b.append: @a; dd @b
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«Array @b = [1, 2, 3]␤»
timotimo i'm surprised that doesn't die; doesn't google automatically redirect you to https nowadays? 08:26
azawawi timotimo: you mean ex01.t ?
timotimo yeah 08:27
08:27 Ven left
azawawi well it didnt on my linux box :) 08:28
RabidGravy azawawi, nice one
azawawi i will write also more ui tests for "doc.perl6.org" :) 08:29
that way we will have less regressions when changing the website functionality 08:30
08:31 Ven joined
FROGGS_ azawawi++ 08:31
that's awesome
azawawi btw travis CI comes with phantomjs preinstalled 08:32
so we can use that to our advantage
08:33 Ven left
timotimo quite neat! 08:33
08:33 Ven joined
azawawi docs.travis-ci.com/user/gui-and-hea...-PhantomJS 08:33
timotimo actually doing something web-app-like in the future sounds more and more like a possibility :) 08:34
azawawi timotimo: yup
timotimo: you do the server part
timotimo: i will test it :)
now i have a problem with documentation 08:36
i need =(begin|end) markdown
timotimo i'll still need an idea first :P
08:37 Ven left, Ven joined
Ven m: class A { my $!x; method a { sleep 5; $!x = 10; method a { $!x } } }; given A.new { say .a; say .a; } 08:38
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed. in any throw at src/Perl6/World.nqp:3617␤5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/_3PCraXlvf␤Cannot use ! t…»
Ven m: class A { my $!x; method a { method a { $!x }; sleep 5; $!x = 10; } }; given A.new { say .a; say .a; }
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context␤Any of .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can stringify undefined things, if needed. in any throw at src/Perl6/World.nqp:3617␤5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/XGh9rYkt95␤Cannot use ! t…»
Ven weblog.jamisbuck.org/2015/10/17/dynamic-def.html is really fun :P 08:39
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dalek ast: f50149e | FROGGS++ | S02-types/flattening.t:
test method push/append for RT #126172
 08:40
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=126172
ely-se Ven: absolutely awful 08:42
Ven ely-se: you mean amazing
ruby needs more metaprogramming facilities
ely-se No, it needs fewer. And more immutability.
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Ven you wouldn't know, you don't write ruby :P 08:43
ely-se Mutable classes are a horrible horrible idea.
rurban :)
but that's the whole point of metaclasses 08:44
to change many classes at once
Ven `class A < [Hash, Array].sample; end;` <- amazing
ely-se awful
Ven executable class bodies are great – that's why elixir stole that :P
timotimo "class Awful"? :)
ely-se one of the few things PHP gets right: no dynamic class manipulation bullshit 08:45
rurban it just needs to trigger all the class optimizations
common-lisp did it properly and efficient
Ven rurban: yeah, MRI took a looong time to get a hierarchical method cache
rurban: good interview, btw
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RabidGravy aw 08:47
azawawi, I've just chucked in a PR for NCurse with a new example if you want it :) 08:48
rurban method cache, role/mixin layout, inheritance tree, … 08:49
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konobi pmurias: so it's the gen script that would be updated, not the Makefile-JS.in ? 08:54
yoleaux 18 Oct 2015 18:38Z <pmurias> konobi: I'll replace the build system for nqp-js with a saner one tommorrow
azawawi RabidGravy: thanks 08:59
RabidGravy++
FROGGS_ m: /<.ws >/
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/eVs29YYnwZ␤Null regex not allowed␤at /tmp/eVs29YYnwZ:1␤------> 3/<.ws 7⏏5>/␤»
FROGGS_ std: /<.ws >/
camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Null pattern not allowed at /tmp/H6BOCqVpwM line 1:␤------> 3/<.ws 7⏏5>/␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 135m␤»
FROGGS_ k
konobi ah 09:00
must have lost that in a netsplit or something 09:02
RabidGravy azawawi, seemed a shame to have it go to waste :)
konobi time for sleeping... then to voting!
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azawawi RabidGravy: :) 09:05
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dalek kudo/nom: 4b1df7b | FROGGS++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.nqp:
allow whitestape in ::( "&foo"), RT #126385
 09:12
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=126385
09:13 bjz left, ssflying left
azawawi m: sub foo { 1 }; while foo > 1 {} # What's wrong with this one? 09:13
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/yQN1S8MWRj␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix > instead␤at /tmp/yQN1S8MWRj:1␤------> 3sub foo { 1 }; while foo >7⏏5 1 {} # What's wrong with this one?␤»
azawawi m: sub foo { 1 }; while foo() > 1 {} # foo() 09:14
camelia ( no output )
09:14 Ven_ joined, bjz joined 09:15 Ven left 09:16 Exodist left
azawawi sub foo { 1 }; while foo > 1 {} # is that by design? 09:16
09:18 Exodist joined
timotimo m: sub foo { 1 }; while foo > 1 { }; say "oh" 09:18
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/QtdsJhpyvt␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix > instead␤at /tmp/QtdsJhpyvt:1␤------> 3sub foo { 1 }; while foo >7⏏5 1 { }; say "oh"␤»
dalek ast: 0478776 | FROGGS++ | S02-names/indirect.t:
add tests for indirect names with whitespace
timotimo m: sub foo { 1 }; while foo() > 1 { }; say "oh"
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«oh␤»
azawawi RabidGravy: github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/b...eld.p6#L30 :)
FROGGS_ m: sub foo { 1 }; say foo > 1
camelia rakudo-moar fae01f: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/yegAoSRg6a␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix > instead␤at /tmp/yegAoSRg6a:1␤------> 3sub foo { 1 }; say foo >7⏏5 1␤»
timotimo well, subs expect to get arguments 09:19
FROGGS_ true
timotimo we don't have parser-altering prototypes like perl5
RabidGravy azawawi, oops I was just testing the startup time and forgot to take that out ;-)
azawawi RabidGravy: no problem. will fix it
timotimo oh, i didn't see the earlier evaluations there
azawawi RabidGravy: done 09:20
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RabidGravy yay! 09:20
azawawi RabidGravy++ 09:21
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lizmat m: dd (-1) ** 4553535345364535345634543534 10:27
yoleaux 05:57Z <nine> lizmat: I feel like timotimo++ there. Supply.await not waiting for anything feels strange. What it does is more like a for-await, since what it gives you can be used with await. I'd rather call it .Promise, too.
camelia rakudo-moar 4b1df7: OUTPUT«0␤»
yoleaux 05:58Z <nine> lizmat: or if coercion is not the mechanism we're after (I'm undecided on that), something completely different. Maybe "waiter" ;)
lizmat guess I need to backlog :-) 10:28
10:28 Debolaz left
lizmat seems RT #124798 tests are passing 10:29
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=124798
nine lizmat: is that about the power.t failure we've had for weeks, or is it something different? 10:30
lizmat well, one of the todoed tests is passing
at least, for me, on OS X
but here on camelia (linux I assume) it's still failing 10:31
nine is building to test on Linux
lizmat $ 6 'dd (-1) ** 4553535345364535345634543534'
1
dalek ast: f2c1417 | lizmat++ | S32-num/power.t:
Change dubious test to skip

Passes on OS X, fails on other systems		 10:33
nine power.t passes on Linux with no TODOs passed 10:34
lizmat well, the above test passed for me since yesterday
nine Odd....I'd have never suspected there to be a platform difference in that area 10:35
lizmat me neither, but it *is* annoying :-) (well, for me, running many spectests a day)
nine I guess they already passed for you before yesterday. They've been failing on Linux, which is why they were marked todo again. 10:36
And yes, having to run spectests again on pristine nom just to compare the list of failing tests is perfect waste of developer time :) 10:37
pmurias konobi: yes 10:38
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pmurias konobi: Makefile-JS.in even has an autogenerated comment on top 10:39
konobi: it's in the repo as it's generated by an nqp script
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RabidGravy leaving a kernel upgrade to 4.2.3 without bouncing probably wasn't a good idea then 10:47
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lizmat wonders if there is something to mention about the Pittsburgh Perl Workshop that hasn't been mentioned before in the Perl 6 Weekly 11:03
moritz double mentions are OK :-) 11:05
lizmat yeah, but not in consecutive weeks :-) 11:06
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dalek kudo/nom: 42e55ec | lizmat++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
Make sure use invocant/parameters throw an NYI

Since they're not working yet, but were being parsed and set up the internals already. In light of the coming release this week.		 11:41
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brrt good * #perl6 12:00
rindolf brrt: hello. 12:03
brrt: sup?
Woodi hallo #perl6 :) 12:04
moritz: about DBIish API... 12:05
Ven \o 12:06
ely-se o/
Woodi 1) would be nice to remove "drivers" into separate modules with separate "namespace" eg. API::Mysql. and there to have full db api, even versioned: mysql4, mysql5.5 ... 5.7 (if different of course) 12:07
so users can opt for "raw" access to engine
lizmat Woodi: have you considered roles ? 12:08
12:09 pmurias_ is now known as pmurias
Woodi moritz: 2) (as for what you realy asked) I like MS in-memory "datasets" similiar to @rows probably. it allows to do changes and commit at the end 12:09
lizmat: not. versioning on API version probably needs modules 12:10
brrt hello rindolf, Woodi, Ven, ely-se, lizmat 12:11
Woodi I imagine having API::Posix, API::Linux, API::Win32, etc
brrt rindolf: busy busy busy. small bits of progress on the new jit 12:12
pmurias didn't Tim Bunce plan to use JDBC as the internal driver api for the DBI 2.0?
timbunce nods
moritz Woodi: thanks for the feedback, but that AIP is a bit too high-level for DBIish
Woodi moritz: ?? which "that" ? 12:13
lizmat brrt o/
Woodi DBIis could be done on top on raw db api. threaded/evented/supplied versions too
12:14 Ven left
rindolf brrt: ah, nice. 12:16
brrt maybe i may want to ask my design question here 12:17
i need to deal with different-sized-operands
that is usually no problem so long as the operands are both a): unsigned and b): either 8 or 4 bytes wide
moritz Woodi: allowing changes to in-memory data structures and committing at the end 12:18
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moritz that's more the realm of an OR mapper 12:22
and just because it looks deceptivelly simple to write one in p6 doesn't mean DBIish should mogrify into one
Woodi moritz: just ideas. depends what "scope" DBIish have. datasets could be done on top of it :) 12:24
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Woodi and not 100% ORM. just a noting "this cell changed" somewhere 12:26
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timotimo so an ... Objecd Dataset Mapper? 12:28
Woodi Plain Array Mapper ;)
[Coke] tries to add www.reddit.com/r/perl6/.rss to feedly's rss reader, but only gets articles that are 6 weeks old+
timotimo can't just be a plain array if it's supposed to track what changed 12:29
Woodi timotimo: it is mapper part for :)
timotimo mhm
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moritz [Coke]: maybe www.reddit.com/r/perl6/new/.rss ? 12:35
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brrt anyway, the question is basically how to handle mixed operands that aren't unsigned and 4-to-8 bytes 12:38
i.e. when using a 2-byte operand together with an 8-byte operand, the 2-byte operand (if it lives in a register) still contains 'garbage' data for the upper 6 bytes 12:39
now in the case the values are unsigned, the upper 6 bytes should be zeroed'; in case they are not, they should be sign-extended (either zeroed or one'd depending on the upper bit) 12:40
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brrt actually, sign extension is also necessary for 4 byte values 12:41
my question is basically how explicit or implicit should this be
nine brrt: sign-extending is equal to zeroing for positive values, isn't it?
brrt i aye
aye
it's literally 'extending the sign byte' which is zero for positive values 12:42
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Woodi brrt: you are talking about in-vm things or asm things ? in first case maybe lower-level can handle this ? 12:44
brrt asm things
nine x86 does have an op for that
brrt i know : movsx and movz for sign- and zero-extension repsectively :-) 12:45
nine I guess for API design, a good rule of thumb is: the lower level the more explicit
Woodi heh
brrt hmm, i tend to agree
on the other hand, i may have cases in which it is nearly impossible to know ahead-of-time the size of all operands 12:46
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brrt e.g. when using the value of one computation in another i may not know how big the operand is ahead of time; especially when considering different architectures 12:47
i.e. i may specify something as sizeof(int) and that should work; but i have no idea of whether an upscaling operation would be necessary
12:47 weihan joined
brrt so, i'm leaning to 'automatic' upscaling of registers 12:48
now i can do that in two ways as well
a): shotgun style, by hardcoding it into the assembly; b): using specific 'scale' tree nodes that handle the conversion 12:49
problem of a); is very simply that it becomes much more cumbersome, not to say impossible, to add in signedness information 12:50
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brrt b): of course can do so very simply, but i have to make some decisions on which things are unsigned and which things are signed 12:50
i would suppose normal integer arithmetic would be signed, whereas pointer arithmetic is unsigned 12:51
what about binary operations (AND/OR/XOR)? 12:52
nine And what about uints? 12:53
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[Coke] moritz: weird. was necessary for feedly, but not for the web browser. ah well. Danke. 12:53
Woodi brrt: b) looks simpler ;) 12:55
brrt well, we're not dealing with uints much yet nine :-) fortunately 12:56
woodi: I think so too... i just need to make some decisions on the individual ops 12:57
the expr tree has only about 30 or so ops so that is not very difficult
timbunce For the record, re a DBI for Perl 6, this still applies markmail.org/message/oavyl5l4dlme5dft 12:58
nine brrt: but they're on the TODO. So it seems prudent to at least keep them in mind and not make it harder to add them later on.
brrt my hunch is that binary ops, by default, are unsigned; pointer arithmetic ops too;, arithmetic ops are signed, comparisons are... signed, i guess 12:59
integer comparisons, that is
nine: agreed. but worst case i simply add a U for every signed operation, e.g. UADD, UMUL, UDIV
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Woodi timotimo: but, but... it is Oracle api ! ;) 13:00
brrt carg is.... doesn't really care about it, i think, since the operand sizes will typically match the expected size by the function anyway
Woodi oops, timbunce
timbunce Woodi: "insired by" :) 13:01
*inspired
13:01 riatre left
Woodi "one slide to close"... ;) 13:02
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timotimo intel's new motto: there's an op for that 13:03
timbunce The key point is that there needs to be a low-level api abstracting the db vendor api's, on which to build a higher level perl6y one. 13:04
JDBC seems like a good choice, but isn't a key feature.
nine timbunce: I guess JDBC still usually covers all of the DB's capabilities? 13:05
timbunce Also using JDBC gives us an instant test suite.
Yes, all the main stuff and quite a lot of extensions. Though there'll always be a need for vendor-specific extensions. 13:06
Also using JDBC gives us an instant body of code and experience to draw on.
Also using JDBC gives us "does it work on Perl 6 on JVM using the real JDBC" as a debugging strategy 13:07
etc etc
nine Also stealing the good parts is the Perl 6 way ;) 13:08
TimToady
.oO(we *intend* to give it back though)
 13:09
Woodi do MS hacked/embranced-and-hijacked ODBC ? 13:10
dalek ecs: f845815 | lizmat++ | S99-glossary.pod:
Add reposession lemma, moritz++
 13:13
brrt likes the jdbc plan 13:14
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brrt MS supports ODBC, but it is barely functional typically 13:14
masak slightly off-topic: is there a Perl::Tidy analogue for Python? 13:17
nine masak: Python is tidy by definition 13:18
masak: also pypi.python.org/pypi/PythonTidy/
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Woodi right, ODBC looks abandoned... 13:19
mrf ugexe++++ # Grammer::HTTP 13:21
masak nine: thank you. for both answers. :P 13:22
mrf: I had to go check whether the module name was actually misspelled like that ;)
fortunately, it wasn't. 13:23
mrf masak: Rule 1. I cannot spell for toffee
masak: In fact I can't spell no matter what you offer me
masak oh, and the modules.perl6.org page got a facelift, too
whoever++
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brrt nine: it's true. perl is vernacular english, and python is polygoon-journaal dutch 13:27
mrf Grammars++ # I cannot express how awesome these things are. 13:28
geekosaur speeling++ 13:29
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Guest79214 @@? 13:31
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kalkin- hi 13:31
Guest79214 hi ^__^
kalkin- I'am trying to install rakudo and panda via rakudobrew 13:32
installing moarvm worked. but i have some issues installing panda
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kalkin- when doing rakudobrew build-panda i'm getting the follwing error: nopaste.linux-dev.org/?783469 13:33
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kalkin- exucuting /home/user/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/panda/bin/panda also throws a error (Could not find Shell::Command in any of:...) 13:34
gfldex is the pointed at directory in your PATH?
kalkin- well i added it and got the same error 13:35
btw the pointed dir does not exists
so this might also be an issue :)
Woodi about grammars :) : let's say I have grammar for file format X. I can .parsefile("file") and it tells me if everything is ok and gives candies. but when "file" is badly formated somewhere, let's say: in the middle, it just returns error... how I can "iterate" over what was good up to the middle of file ?
Ven Woodi: using debugging tools like :dba()
ponzellus Hi all, I'm starting to play with p6, but got stuck creating a constructor for a class, which has an attribute of another custom-class. I fail to create a constructor, in which I can initiate the second class: gist.github.com/phamer/71b8b38e565bca363b81 13:36
Ven or, if it's for your debugging purposes, tools like Grammar::Debugger or Grammar::Tracer
kalkin- is there some down side to using rakudo-star package from Fedora 21? It is versioned as 0.0.2015.06. it seems recent enough for me 13:37
brrt Woodi: in very general, 'that is not how grammars always work'
kalkin- or am i missing anything important?
Woodi Ven: debugging tools looks development-time tools...
brrt because (again in general) the meaning of the document might depend on the things after the broken-in-the-middle part 13:38
brrt wonders if he can find an example of that
Ven Woodi: Grammar::Debugger and Grammar::Tracer are, yes
Woodi :dba are in the "match" from subparse ? 13:39
brrt my point is that the notion of the document until the parse error is not necessarily well-defined for all grammars
gfldex kalkin-: was does `perl6 --version` say?
RabidGravy ponzellus, I fixed it for you, left a comment on the gist 13:41
masak m: sub foo($x, $y = my $unpassed = {}) { say "\$y was {$y === $unpassed ?? "NOT " !! ""}passed" }; foo(1); foo(2, 3)
camelia rakudo-moar 42e55e: OUTPUT«$y was NOT passed␤$y was passed␤»
Woodi brrt: I want to write script to "repair" files in not-yet-format-X. and for now grammars helps me *after* file is well formatted :)
masak ^ nice pattern for checking whether a parameter was passed or not 13:42
RabidGravy ponzellus, the main point being that you don't need to supply a new() all the time, just use a "submethod BUILD"
brrt hmmmmmm
kalkin- gfldex: This is perl6 version 2015.09-420-g4b1df7b built on MoarVM version 2015.09-79-gee9fc2b
ponzellus RabidGravy, thanks a lot! though I think you pasted the original code?
RabidGravy I did, dud 13:43
hang on let me fix that
ponzellus, that should be better
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brrt i don't know how a grammar trace or grammar debugger work. but it seems to me that it'd be possible to write a class that gives you the half-parsed grammar 13:44
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brrt masak: that is so... silly considering the actual implementation of optional args in moarvm 13:44
ponzellus I see, thanks!
brrt (it already employs a parameter-is-passed-conditional branch) 13:45
ponzellus so, is there a rule of thumb when to use new() or BUILD()?
loren good evening everyone. Is there any function like perl5's 'getsocketname' in perl6 ?
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RabidGravy ponzellus, the BUILD gets called after the object has been constructed and before it is returned to the user 13:46
loren I saw synopses said something instead of 'getsocketname' in IO modules .
getsocketname -> getsockname 13:47
Woodi loren: generally in Perl6 shings like that are not in "language" but in modules
RabidGravy if you supply I new() then you have to construct the object yourself (probably using bless on the type object), you may want to do this for example if you want to have positional rather than named arguments to the constructor 13:48
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masak brrt: but if you don't give it a *unique* default, you can't really tell an Any from nothing-was-passed. 13:48
Woodi loren: i don't see this in doc.perl6.org/type/IO::Socket::INET 13:49
brrt masak: i know. but we could just 'publish' the it-was-passed information to the frame? perhaps using an nqp op
masak realizes there's no risk of such confusion in his case, and goes with a simple `$y?` :)
gfldex kalkin-: that looks very recent. However, right now I would not trust any distribution package. Have a look at github.com/rakudo/rakudo and github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew and build it yourself.
TimToady m: use NativeCall; sub getsockname ($s) is native {*};
camelia ( no output )
Ven Woodi: you can also use [<foo> || <.fail(..)>]
loren I find a RFC say will be in IO::Socket, but i found nothing..
Ven the parser does that a lot 13:50
TimToady something like that
brrt e.g. nqp:hasargn("$y")
loren www.perl6.org/archive/rfc/146.html , Is this available?
TimToady probably needs a better type on the argument though
brrt another option would be to give $y a special 'Unprovided' null-like value
loren design.perl6.org/S29.html#IO , this page mentioned 'getsockname' 13:51
kalkin- g.d
gfd
ups sory
RabidGravy loren, it mentions as "obsolete"
kalkin- gfldex: i will open an issue at rakudobrew and we will see were it leads to
Woodi Ven: I will think a bit about what this means :) 13:52
loren Ok, then i need something instead of that, have some idea ? RabidGravy 13:53
TimToady m: use NativeCall; sub getsockname (int $s) is native {*}; say getsockname(0)
camelia rakudo-moar 42e55e: OUTPUT«(Mu)␤»
RabidGravy :)
TimToady well, 0 is probably not a socket there...
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RabidGravy It would be handier for those things if you could get the fd from the IO::Socket::INET 13:54
TimToady well, and native getsockname wants 3 args
RabidGravy we'll gloss over that part ;-)
Ven m: class A{ method a { method b { } } }; 13:55
camelia ( no output )
13:55 rurban left
TimToady m: use NativeCall; sub getsockname (int $s, Buf $b, int $l) is native {*}; my $b = Buf.new(0 xx 100); say getsockname(0,b,100) 13:55
camelia rakudo-moar 42e55e: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/nLhTMYsLUJ␤Undeclared routine:␤ b used at line 1␤␤»
13:55 weihan left
loren so, i would use nativecall instead ? 13:56
TimToady m: use NativeCall; sub getsockname (int $s, Buf $b, int $l) is native {*}; my $b = Buf.new(0 xx 100); say getsockname(0,$b,100)
camelia rakudo-moar 42e55e: OUTPUT«(Mu)␤»
13:56 khw joined
TimToady something like that, only on an actual socket 13:56
loren int getsockname(int sockfd, struct sockaddr *addr, socklen_t *addrlen); here is the signature
TimToady offhand I don't know how to get the fd from a handle
RabidGravy I don't think there currently is a way that is obvious 13:57
TimToady maybe after we bypass libuv for sync IO it'll be easier to get to 13:58
'course, then you still couldn't do the async and get the sockname
doubtless libuv knows the fd somewhere though 13:59
dalek ast: 941f7aa | lizmat++ | S06-parameters/smiley.t:
Disable premature 'use parameters' tests for now
loren ok, then i implement the 'pasv' mode first.. 14:00
dalek kudo/nom: a31cc91 | lizmat++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
Handle typecheck errors with Failures better

Fixes RT #126394		 14:01
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=126394
RabidGravy TimToady, int uv_fileno(const uv_handle_t* handle, uv_os_fd_t* fd) in docs.libuv.org/en/v1.x/handle.html 14:03
TimToady well, then, someone just needs to hook it up, I guess 14:04
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pmurias konobi: you might want to look at docs/HACKING-js 14:08
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TimToady lizmat: why not use 'method priors' that was already there? 14:10
lizmat TimToady: good question
I guess I had forgotten about priors
hmmm... looks like I would need to change it in a lot of messages with priors :-( 14:12
TimToady messing with gotn only really works well if we use it as the last thing in the message
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Ven .tell timotimo for some reason, your constants in gtk_cairo_shooter are.. undefined in the rest of the file.. 14:13
yoleaux Ven: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
lizmat TimToady: looks like it is everywhere 14:14
Ven .tell timotimo btw, `perl6 livecoding.p6` errors with "Internal error: Unwound entire stack and missed handler" on my computer :[
yoleaux Ven: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
TimToady why wasn't priors catching the Failure already? 14:15
lizmat m: my Int $x = fail "important failure message" 14:16
camelia ( no output )
lizmat hmmm....
I'm not sure...
maybe because there wasn't any prior yet ?
TimToady m: say nqp::isconcrete(Failure.new("oops")) 14:17
camelia rakudo-moar 42e55e: OUTPUT«1␤»
TimToady well, it's not that
I was a little surprised when the bug report came out, since it was supposed to handle that already... 14:18
lizmat well, maybe not that case :-(
14:18 Ulti joined
lizmat I need to go afk for a few hours... 14:19
TimToady o/
lizmat when I'm back, I'll have a new P6W
loren o/
I'm back..
lizmat if anybody has anything to be mentioned in it, let me know
Ven lizmat++ :)
loren I want get local ip address .. 14:21
Ven lizmat: I know the perl weekly already had a few p6 links
you might want to look at them
14:21 AndyDee joined
lizmat gist.github.com/lizmat/6b02537b05ff01aed226 # for the very curious 14:22
loren 'gethost' not exist too, like 'getsockname'. i fell a little 'tired'
moritz lizmat: "now show the embedded Exception message" ~~ s/show/shows/ 14:24
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brrt loren: there exists a LWP package for perl6, that may have an implementation of some of these things 14:25
Ven lots of great perl6 blog posts :)
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loren brrt, Is that perl6 standard module ? I really don't want to add another module to my project 14:27
lizmat moritz: disagree, show is about the Typecheck errors <-- note multiple 14:29
the comma however should probably go
brrt loren: rakudo-the-compiler ships only with very few modules, iirc just 'Test' and maybe some debugging modules
lizmat really afk&
14:29 telex left
brrt rakudo-star-the-distribution probably ships LWP, but i'm not 100% sure 14:30
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brrt it was more a suggestion in term of 'maybe that is an interesting example of how to do networking in perl6' :-) 14:30
loren ok, brrt i will try it later , thks very much 14:31
brrt :-) you're welcome
please forgive perl6 for not being entirely finished and solid just yet
loren En, I want to implement a ftp client in perl6, there are a lot of problems.
timotimo rakudo only ships with Test, lib and NativeCall 14:32
yoleaux 14:13Z <Ven> timotimo: for some reason, your constants in gtk_cairo_shooter are.. undefined in the rest of the file..
14:14Z <Ven> timotimo: btw, `perl6 livecoding.p6` errors with "Internal error: Unwound entire stack and missed handler" on my computer :[
timotimo though i believe lib is now not even a module any more
loren I'll never give up it.
timotimo so yeah, only Test and NativeCall
brrt well, if you find missing stuff, bugs, feel free to report them
timotimo Rakudo * ought to come with some http thing
brrt loren: your experience is very valuable to us. that sounds very corporate, but it's true :-) 14:33
loren OK, BTW, will private multi method implement soon ?
timotimo we don't have that yet?
loren ee, in my version not exist.
i'm still use the last release . 14:34
Ven m: class A { multi method !a(Int) {}; multi method !a(Str) {} };
camelia rakudo-moar a31cc9: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/hBq6HhEdZv␤Private multi-methods are not supported␤at /tmp/hBq6HhEdZv:1␤------> 3class A { multi method7⏏5 !a(Int) {}; multi method !a(Str) {} };␤»
timotimo oh
didn't know that
Ven timotimo: I think the bug I .tell'd you is similar to mine 14:35
pmurias konobi: if you have any questions about nqp-js I'll glady answer them
timotimo i must say i don't love gtk. 14:36
at all.
loren The function name is longer and longer .. 14:37
Ven timotimo: oh.
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itz_stmuk I don't think there are any nice GUI libraries 14:37
timotimo qt always felt nice to me
loren What about wxWidgets 14:38
Ven itz_stmuk: Delphi :P
dalek kudo/nom: 48a0888 | TimToady++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
easier to fix the original precedence bug :)
 14:39
itz_stmuk TK :D
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PerlJam huh 14:43
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PerlJam would have missed that precedence bug too 14:44
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TimToady well, obviously I missed it when I installed it in the first place :) 14:45
flussence fltk's an option now we have C++... 14:46
jdv79 is someone working on async db?
saw some mention in the backlog 14:47
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PerlJam TimToady: small bugs like that worry me a little for future code maintenance. 14:49
(mostly I worry that it will cause a rash of superstitious parens) 14:50
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[Coke] returns from a routine checkup, nothing to see here. 15:01
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[Coke] RT: 1037; weird: 11; lta: 88; nom: 8; glr: 4; tests: 9; xmas: 74 15:03
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moritz what's an easy way to get all xmas-tagged open tickets? 15:04
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[Coke] rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=123766 15:05
Anything without a line through it.
anyone thinking of taking up thalhammer on his coverity email? 15:06
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moritz m: sub foo { @_[0] = "bah" }; my $a = "!"; foo($a); say $a # RT #71112 15:08
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...l?id=71112
camelia rakudo-moar a31cc9: OUTPUT«!␤»
15:10 diana_olhovik left
moritz ok, revolutionary idea 15:11
how about we make @_ (and other slurpies) a List instead of an Array? 15:12
TimToady then you couldn't shift it?
moritz aye
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TimToady and you can always do +foo instead 15:13
though perhaps we should allow *foo and **foo too
moritz 'cause if @_ stays an array, the example above will never blow up, as you requested some years ago :-) 15:14
TimToady in P5 the elements of @_ are raw refs, though 15:16
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moritz that doesn't mean they need to be in 6 15:17
m: module A { enum Day is export <Mon Tue>; sub Day is export { 'sub Day' } }; import A; say Day(0);
camelia rakudo-moar a31cc9: OUTPUT«Mon␤»
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moritz m: say 'ö'.encode('ASCII') 15:19
camelia rakudo-moar a31cc9: OUTPUT«Blob[uint8]:0x<3f>␤»
ilmari m: say '→'.encode('ASCII') 15:20
camelia rakudo-moar a31cc9: OUTPUT«Blob[uint8]:0x<3f>␤»
15:20 CIAvash joined
moritz m: say '→'.encode('ASCII').decode 15:20
camelia rakudo-moar a31cc9: OUTPUT«?␤»
15:20 reneeb left
moritz it uses the question mark as replacement character 15:20
which makes me unhappy (RT #123673) 15:21
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=123673
ilmari surely charcters that don't exist in the target encoding should throw an exception
15:21 ponzellus left
moritz see the ticket I mentioned :-) 15:22
ilmari $ python -c '"ø".encode("ascii")'
UnicodeDecodeError: 'ascii' codec can't decode byte 0xc3 in position 0: ordinal not in range(128)
buggy error message, should be s/\<de/en/
and s/byte/character/ 15:23
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et09 is there any way to not have to type semicolons, like in JS ES6? 15:24
boggard i've never heard a good argument for that. 15:25
et09 less typing
guess it's just a parser design argument
vs that 15:26
:m { 3.say }
PerlJam semicolons are not that onerus to type :) 15:27
et09 every char adds up
moritz et09: Perl 6 allows you to omit the semicolon after a } if it's followed by a newline
masak et09: optional semicolons are not new with ES6. rather, it's a regretful misfeature from ES1 that's not possible to remove. 15:28
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et09 maybe haskell is a better example 15:29
of course they have indent-coding
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masak I don't think Perl 6 would fit well with a semicolon-less style, to be honest 15:29
I don't mean esthetically -- I mean it wouldn't work so well in practice
PerlJam semicolons make nice sequence points
pmurias et09: for sure there will be a module to turn off required semicolons 15:30
masak also, they allow for free-form statements
kalkin- i fixed my issue an installation of perl-Test-Harness-3.35-1.fc21.noarch fixed it
et09 all i know is my life is 5x easier since i started using babel for es6 on the backend
15:30 [Sno] joined
et09 () => { } too (even though that's still not the prettiest 15:30
flussence parens are optional in single-arg js lambdas 15:31
et09 i know
so are the { } for a single statement block
_.map(objs, obj => obj.prop * 2)
pmurias et09: for a semicolon less style the way python inserts them seems much more sane than what javascript does 15:32
PerlJam et09: are you *sure* you want perl 6? ;)
flussence @objs».prop »*» 2 is still shorter :)
et09 well i seem to like everything else i read about it 15:33
python's not very expressive is it
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flussence python is a strange middle ground between perl and php 15:37
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flussence all the compatibility breaks of the former and all the progress of the latter :) 15:38
et09 you mean 2/3 ?
n/m i get it, lol
flussence I'm not sure any more; they seem to keep changing APIs even in the 2 series 15:39
et09 i barely ever use python, i just know once in a while i have to open a program and change the hashbang so it uses the right python
15:39 abaugher joined
kalkin- well at least you was sure if you started a new project that it's going to bea php5. if I start a python project most of the time i think 2 or 3? does it even mater? 15:40
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kalkin- s/you was/you were/ 15:40
flussence py3.5 has one nice feature that I've seen: they've stolen q:c"" :) 15:41
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flussence (and put it into a string prefix letter I can't remember the mnemonic of...) 15:42
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ilmari moritz: #123673 needs fixing in nqp, since Str.encode just calls nqp::encode() 15:43
synbot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3/Public/Bug/Display...?id=123673
loren good night, every one and perl6. 15:45
ilmari j: say 'å'.encode('ASCII') 15:46
camelia rakudo-jvm 48a088: OUTPUT«Blob[uint8]:0x<3f>␤»
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PerlJam
.oO( loren ipsun dolos siu )
 15:46
loren o/ PerlJam 15:47
PerlJam good night :) 15:48
ilmari the jvm backend just uses String.getBytes, which says «The behavior of this method when this string cannot be encoded in the default charset is unspecified.»
«The CharsetEncoder class should be used when more control over the encoding process is required.» 15:49
itz_stmuk is there anyway of using the debugger to set breakpoints inside CORE.setting?
15:49 loren left
dalek ast: 3e936df | coke++ | S06-parameters/smiley.t:
Use fudge directives
 15:50
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dalek osystem: 5f6c96b | (Shoichi Kaji)++ | META.list:
add Frinfon
 15:53
osystem: 07a25f8 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | META.list:
Merge pull request #81 from shoichikaji/frinfon

add Frinfon
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dalek kudo/nom: c32c57f | TimToady++ | docs/ChangeLog:
TimToady changes since last release
 16:00
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TimToady flussence: X* is even sorter than »*» 16:06
flussence sometimes I wonder... with X what's »» good for? 16:07
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flussence oh right, parallelization 16:07
forgot that actually works now :)
TimToady and it has different semantics on the short end
»» is more like APL semantics 16:08
replicates the short dimension
well, I guess X does that too, was thinking of Z
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n0tjack m: say 'short' >>~>> 'longer'; 16:08
camelia rakudo-moar 48a088: OUTPUT«shortlonger␤»
n0tjack m: say 'short'.comb >>~>> 'longer'.comb; 16:09
camelia rakudo-moar 48a088: OUTPUT«(sl ho on rg te)␤»
n0tjack heh
TimToady but X and Z are naturally for two lists (so you don't need parens on either side), while hypers are more for matrices and such
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TimToady n0tjack: yeah, there's that too 16:10
list vs matrix is why X and Z are quite loose, and hypers follow their base operator's precedence 16:11
n0tjack what's the idiomatic way to say matrix-mult in p6?
n0tjack realizes he doesn't even know how to idiomatically intialize a 2D matrix in p6 16:12
TimToady we don't quite have the notation yet, but that'll be here in a few weeks, since we have the underlying primitives in line 16:13
so we don't have a matrix multiply built in yet, but see rosettacode.org/wiki/Matrix_multipl...ion#Perl_6
we can subscript with multi-dims, but we just don't have the "shaped" declaration syntax hooked up 16:14
n0tjack surely there's more concise way than @p[$r][$c] += @a[$r][$_] * @b[$_][$c]
TimToady sure, look down further :)
n0tjack like with [+] and >>*<< etc
there we go :) 16:15
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TimToady when I saw you wanted that, I hopped into my DeLorean and went back to add it earlier :) 16:16
boggard let's go cubbies!
PerlJam At some point it will be useful to have some PDL -> P6 examples (or perhaps NumPy/matlab/octave/etc -> P6) 16:17
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TimToady well, we really need to get the abstract slicing carried over from PDL before that makes sense, unless we're talking about P6 sugar over P5 PDL 16:18
but we do have lotsa sugar :)
n0tjack: also, that implementation is really just for Array of Array, not real matrices 16:20
real mat ops will want to keep things in native shaped arrays when possible 16:21
[Coke] should pod N<>'s be separated from the thing they note by whitespace?: e.g. filesN<a note> vs. files N<a note> 16:23
PerlJam [Coke]: no whitespace is how I've been doing it.
n0tjack how is a native shaped array laid out in memory? 16:24
PerlJam n0tjack: efficiently ;)
n0tjack in the APLs, it's something like {flags}{shape}{ravel}
ilmari n0tjack: as a C compiler would
n0tjack well, let me ask a different way: row major or column major?
ok
ilmari (one of the use cases is NativeCall)
TimToady but since we have representational polymorphism, it'd be easy to support column major in a pinch 16:25
ilmari ah, NativeCall has its own CArray type
n0tjack one fun thing in J is you can "hide information" in the shape of an empty array
[Coke] PerlJam: makes running things like spell check marginally harder. 16:26
TimToady just leave off the {ravel}, eh?
n0tjack kinda
if you use 0s and 1s as the lengths of each axis, then the volume will be either 0 or 1 16:27
TimToady well, we use descriptors rather than inlining, but similar idea if you have a shaped type without instantiating
n0tjack thus: 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 $ 'whatever' prints as empty
but you can ask for the shape, convert it to ascii, and get 'hi!'
FROGGS o/
PerlJam [Coke]: aye.
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FROGGS would really like to get below 2**10 RTs this week 16:28
dalek c: 05b19b7 | coke++ | doc/ (27 files):
Fix typos.

Remove some nounifications.
c: 75361a3 | coke++ | doc/ (2 files):
Space out highlighted words.
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[Coke] PerlJam: ^^ spaces out an L & and a B but left the N's alone. 16:29
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TimToady I have a vague suspicion that the inline representation would make it difficult to support extensible dimensions the way a descriptor based approach can 16:29
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FROGGS m: "" ~~ /{}*/; say "alive" 16:29
TimToady you'd have to reshape the array every time you write to such a dimension
[Coke] Help request: doc reviews of non technical "is this english" always appreciated.
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 16:30
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FROGGS [Coke]: heh, I can't help you there :o) 16:30
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TimToady .tell lizmat pretty much everything I did this week is reflected in the git log 16:30
yoleaux TimToady: I'll pass your message to lizmat.
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[Coke] continue to be kind to your release engineer and update the changelog. Thanks to everyone I've seen pushing stuff in there this week! 16:32
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TimToady and please don't use backticks for quotes, it's really ugly 16:33
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moritz TimToady: it's markdown, it's what markdown uses for code 16:34
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TimToady well, then, markdown is ugly 16:34
and the file is not marked as markdown, and the file is not consistently formated 16:35
moritz ah well
as long as the release announcements remain markdown ('cause we convert them to HTML) 16:36
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[Coke] I would be fine if we renamed the changelog to declare markdown 16:44
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[Coke] anything that streamlines the release process. 16:44
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moritz do we do anything with the changelog? 16:45
copy&paste into the release announcement, for example?
FROGGS that's what I do, yes 16:46
but nothing besides that
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[Coke] TIL what a zeugma is: brokemaniacsmusicbox.tumblr.com/pos...fordancing 16:50
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itz_stmuk what city is the first beta? 16:51
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[Coke] There is no tag chosen yet. 17:00
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TimToady right now the version is v6.b, but maybe it should be v6.b.0 so we have somewhere to go between birthday and chrismas 17:02
17:02 apotheon left
TimToady a pity that 'thanksgiving' doesn't come between birthday and christmas... 17:03
and it's a bit US-centric anyway
'course, birthday is a bit me-centric :)
ilmari halloween?
TimToady wrong month
and still out of order
ilmari yeah 17:04
TimToady this is the first birthday release, anyway
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dha there's always v6.[c..z] if you need room to move in the meantime... 17:05
[Coke] btw, this release will probably have 3 tags: the monthly, the city, and whatever the v6 tag ends up being.
dha: I think christmas is v6.c
dha oh. never mind.
itz_stmuk and the bug fix release is orthodox Christmas :) 17:06
konobi thanksgiving was delicious
dha we could rejigger it so we put it out for quanZa instead and use the c..z notation. :-)
PerlJam as long as we don't have a christmas release and a boxing day release, we'll be okay :) 17:07
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TimToady I think the next one after christmas is diwali 17:10
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FROGGS hmm, that means the one after that won't be EchoChamber? 17:12
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n0tjack m: say [+] 'theologica'.comb>>.ord; 17:12
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«1055␤»
TimToady m: say [+] 'theologica'.ords 17:13
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«1055␤»
n0tjack I don't get why more modern languages don't offer implicit looping
I think there's an analogy between hypers : looping-for-everthing :: structured-programming : gotos-for-everything 17:15
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TimToady well, the OO folks don't think a loop is an object, and the FP folks don't want to admit loops exist at all 17:16
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TimToady so most such solutions are ad hoc 17:17
n0tjack yeah, I never understood that attitude from the FP people 17:18
TimToady lazy lists are starting to think like that, but tend to be embedded in languages with strong head/tail biases
n0tjack one of the big attractions to p6 for me is the cohesive integration of FP and implicit looping, without giving me carpal parenthetical syndrome 17:20
(how (can (people (even (look (at (this)))))))))?
^elyse^ you mean "(how (can (people (even (look (at (this ())))))))))?" 17:21
17:21 apotheon left
n0tjack ha 17:22
dalek osystem: 1100901 | moznion++ | META.list:
Add Text::LTSV
^elyse^ m: my $xs = [1, 2, 3, 4]; say $xs>>.sqrt 17:31
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«[1 1.4142135623731 1.73205080756888 2]␤»
^elyse^ Why does this not try to call Array.sqrt?
m: my @xs = [1, 2, 3, 4]; say @xs>>.sqrt 17:32
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«[1 1.4142135623731 1.73205080756888 2]␤»
^elyse^ And why does this not result in a list? :v
[Coke] todo: doc search finds nothing for >> 17:33
dalek p: 41ab646 | FROGGS++ | src/QRegex/P6Regex/ (2 files):
throw when quant follows nonquantable
 17:34
^elyse^ I'm still confused about arrays vs lists.
[Coke] docs.perl6.org/type/Array - An Array is a List which forces all its elements to be scalar containers, which means you can assign to array elements. 17:35
dha Yeah, I was just looking for >> too.
^elyse^ oh, Array is a subclass of List
that makes sense then 17:36
dalek kudo/nom: de4b2b3 | FROGGS++ | / (3 files):
throw when quant follows nonquantable
n0tjack m: my @list = (1,2,3,4); my @list[1] = 99; say @list;
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Shaped arrays not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤at /tmp/AmDbEgSWFf:1␤------> 3my @list = (1,2,3,4); my @list[1]7⏏5 = 99; say @list;␤ expecting any of:␤ constraint␤Other potential difficulties:␤ Redeclaration o…»
n0tjack huh
m: my @list = [1,2,3,4]; my @list[1] = 99; say @list;
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Shaped arrays not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤at /tmp/31YD5t81OT:1␤------> 3my @list = [1,2,3,4]; my @list[1]7⏏5 = 99; say @list;␤ expecting any of:␤ constraint␤Other potential difficulties:␤ Redeclaration o…»
FROGGS n0tjack: drop the second 'my'
n0tjack thanks 17:37
m: my @list = [1,2,3,4]; @list[1] = 99; say @list;
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«[1 99 3 4]␤»
17:37 [Sno] left
n0tjack m: my @list = (1,2,3,4); @list[1] = 99; say @list; 17:37
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«[1 99 3 4]␤»
17:37 ][Sno][ joined
n0tjack seems I can assign to array or list indices? 17:37
17:37 apotheon joined
FROGGS n0tjack: and @foo variable will be of type Array anyway 17:37
n0tjack oh, IS ee
skids Just changing the variable name to "list" does not make it a list
:-)
FROGGS hehe 17:38
^elyse^ Hmm, Rakudo prints "sorry" twice
n0tjack skids: it wasn't the name I was thinking about, it was the shape of the brackets: () vs [].
skids I know I was kidding.
^elyse^ pipe its output to INTERCAL and it'll tell you that Rakudo is overly polite
m: my @xs = [1, 2]; @xs.say
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«[1 2]␤»
et09 m: say map {x .ord % 5},'A'..'z'
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/JmCJCFrJ2a␤Undeclared routine:␤ x used at line 1␤␤»
n0tjack m: my @list := (1,2,3,4); @list[1] := 99; say @list;
^elyse^ m: my @xs = [1, 2], [3, 4]; @xs.say
et09 m: say map {$_ x (.ord % 5)},'A'..'z' 17:39
n0tjack did I break something?
^elyse^ RIP camelia
dalek ast: 95ee327 | FROGGS++ | S05-metasyntax/repeat.t:
add tests for non-quantable exceptions
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«[[1 2] [3 4]]␤»
rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«( B CC DDD EEEE G HH III JJJJ L MM NNN OOOO Q RR SSS TTTT V WW XXX YYYY [ \\ ]]] ^^^^ ` aa bbb cccc e ff ggg hhhh j kk lll mmmm o pp qqq rrrr t uu vvv wwww y zz)␤»
et09 weeee
^elyse^ hmm
m: my @xs = [1, 2],; @xs.say
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«[[1 2]]␤»
^elyse^ ah cool
et09 m: say map {$_ x ((.ord % 5)+1)},'A'..'z' 17:40
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«(A BB CCC DDDD EEEEE F GG HHH IIII JJJJJ K LL MMM NNNN OOOOO P QQ RRR SSSS TTTTT U VV WWW XXXX YYYYY Z [[ \\\ ]]]] ^^^^^ _ `` aaa bbbb ccccc d ee fff gggg hhhhh i jj kkk llll mmmmm n oo ppp qqqq rrrrr s tt uuu vvvv wwwww x yy zzz)␤»
^elyse^ m: my @xs = [1]; my @ys = 1; say(@xs == @ys)
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«True␤»
^elyse^ special case :'(
TimToady one arg rule
not so special
^elyse^ m: my @xs = [1]; my @ys = 1; say($(@xs) == $(@ys))
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«True␤»
^elyse^ m: say([1] == 1)
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«True␤»
^elyse^ m: say([1] === 1) 17:41
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«False␤»
TimToady m: my @xs = $[1]; my @ys = 1; say(@xs == @ys)
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«True␤»
TimToady m: my @xs = $[1]; my @ys = 1; say(@xs eqv @ys)
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«False␤»
TimToady == is just comparing lengths, while === is comparing object identities 17:42
^elyse^ oh right, == does numeric comparison
TimToady so neither is really what you want here
^elyse^ m: my @xs = [1]; my @ys = 1; say(@xs eqv @ys)
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«True␤»
^elyse^ m: my $xs = [1]; my @xs = $xs; my @ys = 1; say(@xs eqv @ys)
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«False␤»
^elyse^ ok nice 17:43
TimToady list assignment follows the one-arg rule, so it iterates the [1]
but not with that last example, because $xs has a $ on it
^elyse^ I get it.
rakudo.org/downloads/star/ should use HTTPS IMO 17:45
pink_mist iirc they applied (or was that just perl6.org?) for one of letsencrypt.org's beta certs, but dunno if they got it ... and soon enough that's not gonna need beta anyway 17:46
moritz I did apply for perl6.org 17:47
^elyse^ ok cool
TimToady wow, "All tests successful."--I'd forgotten what that looks like...
pink_mist right =)
TimToady++ lol
et09 m: say "!".."~"
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«"!".."~"␤»
et09 hmph
m: say "+".."n"
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«"+".."n"␤» 17:48
^elyse^ m: my @xs = 1, 2, 3; my @ys = 4, 5, 6; (@xs >>+<< @ys).perl.say; (@xs Z+ @ys).perl.say
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«[5, 7, 9]␤(5, 7, 9).Seq␤»
et09 m: say list("+".."n")
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«(+ , - . / 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 : ; < = > ? @ A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z [ \ ] ^ _ ` a b c d e f g h i j k l m n)␤»
TimToady ranges are primarily intervals, not lists
n0tjack m: say ("!".."~").comb;
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«(! " # $ % & ' ( ) * + , - . / 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 : ; < = > ? @ A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R ...)␤»
n0tjack m: say ("!".."~").comb.elems;
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«187␤»
TimToady you're coercing to string and then combing
probably because someone decided Range is Cool 17:49
flussence m: print "!".."~", "\n";
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«!"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~␤»
TimToady m: say Range.^mro
camelia rakudo-moar c32c57: OUTPUT«((Range) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))␤»
^elyse^ LOL stackoverflow.com/questions/3315251...-very-ugly
n0tjack what do you know, Range is Cool
Cool Range dressing
17:50 lichtkind joined 17:51 llfourn left 17:52 BLOKDAK left 17:53 BLOKDAK joined
et09 i get emails like that at my job 17:55
Why this feature is very ugly?
pink_mist I don't understand what you mean, et09 17:56
n0tjack pink_mist: et09 posted a link to a SO question asking "why is perl6 very ugly?"
et09 i didn't post that link
n0tjack oh, someone did
tony-o jnthn: are you working on compunit stuff/
TimToady jnthn++ is on a honeymoon this week 17:57
pink_mist n0tjack: I saw the link. and I saw that ^elyse^ posted it. I still don't see what that has to do with emails though, so I'm still as confused as ever
moritz github.com/reinderien/mimic 17:58
^elyse^ is there a way to join paths with the platform's path separator?
n0tjack pink_mist: My take was "I get ridiculous and poorly-informed questions like [why is $feature so ugly] at my job"
jdv79 doesn't everything support / now 17:59
pink_mist n0tjack: ahh, now it makes sense =) n0tjack++
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TimToady m: say 42􏿽xCD􏿽xBE say 43 18:00
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«42␤43␤»
moritz ^elyse^: $*SPEC.catdir
^elyse^ cooooool thanks 18:01
TimToady m: say '􏿽xCD􏿽xBE'.ord
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«59␤»
TimToady m: say 42􏿽xCD􏿽xBE say 43
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«42␤43␤»
18:01 rurban left
tony-o jnthn++ 18:01
TimToady huh, something is regularizing the Greek question mark to normal semicolon
18:01 rurban joined
TimToady m: EVAL "say 42\x37e say 43" 18:02
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«42␤43␤»
TimToady yowsers 18:03
m: say "\x37e".ord 18:04
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«59␤»
TimToady is that like a deprecated character or something?
n0tjack Wikipedia says it canonically decomposes to semicolon 18:05
18:05 vendethiel joined
TimToady but we're not using NFKD 18:05
18:06 Hor|zon left 18:07 Ch0c0late left 18:08 dha left
jdv79 is precomp still not happening? 18:08
5s to "use HTTP::UserAgent" - killin my flow here:( 18:09
TimToady jdv79: see irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-10-17#i_11392842 about that 18:11
jdv79 i know. i thought precomp had been restored back to the old way but seems not. 18:13
ugexe nope
^elyse^ is there a way to make run automatically append .bat and .cmd as appropriate on Windows?
jdv79 then i think i drank too much coffee to work with p6 today:(
ugexe there are typos in CUR::File/Installation in regards to the precomp-file argument 18:14
but if they are corrected it breaks loading
n0tjack it's really hard to be on a conference call and debug a Grammar at the same time
ugexe at least you arent debugging a grammar over a conference call 18:15
lizmat jdv79: if we want to move towards a sustainable / non-fragile precomp environment, we need to implement quite some stuff first
yoleaux 16:30Z <TimToady> lizmat: pretty much everything I did this week is reflected in the git log
jdv79 sure. but was it really necessary to take a step backwards like that just to force the issue. 18:17
sad. makes hacking now unpleasant.
et09 what is a metaobject
ugexe it wasnt on purpose. its a typo that just happens to not cause any errors
jdv79 ugexe: are you talking to me?
ugexe yes 18:18
18:18 espadrine_ left
jdv79 oh. i thought i read tadzik said he broke it on purpose to force the issue. 18:19
i didn't look though
ugexe tadzik just took precompiling out of panda
you could still manually precompile. i thought you meant loading such precompiled code
jdv79 no. i just meant when it used to just work 18:20
huh. well that's doubly unfortunate. neato.
18:21 rurban left 18:22 ^elyse^ left
lizmat fwiw, I'm glad that tadzik++ took precomp out of panda 18:22
vendethiel no chance to get :D by default, btw? as a last-minute-decision :P
lizmat vendethiel: :D where ? 18:23
vendethiel lizmat: everywheeere
flussence m: use attributes :D; my $x;
camelia ( no output )
lizmat I was considering having a "use smileys :D"
jdv79 lizmat: that's funny. like saying it was great that lists stopped working the whole time the GLR was happening.
flussence oh right, $x isn't an attrib...
lizmat that would do a parameters/variables/attributes/invocent for you
18:23 rurban joined
jdv79 it could/should have been a smoother move 18:23
flussence m: use variables :D; my $x; 18:24
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/VNde_xE5_h␤Variable definition of type Any:D (implicit :D by pragma) requires an initializer␤at /tmp/VNde_xE5_h:1␤------> 3use variables :D; my $x7⏏5;␤ expecting any of:␤ constraint␤»
lizmat jdv79: agree it could have been planned better
TimToady not really
lizmat but first we need to do it correctly, and then fast
vendethiel m: my Any:D $x = Nil; 18:25
camelia ( no output )
lizmat jdv79: there were too many ways of introducing strange errors / inconsistencies in an environment with panda
jdv79 at least its only a startup type regression 18:26
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lizmat TimToady: do you know if the Craigslist presentation is online already ? 18:28
or the one from PPW ?
18:28 Mouq left
leedo at some point in the last few weeks '[+] 0..1_000_000' went from taking 2.5s to taking 22s for me 18:28
TimToady PPW wasn't recorded, and cl hasn't run it past me yet for approval, so no 18:29
I mean, yes, I know :)
lizmat TimToady :-(
:-)
leedo: could you be more specific than " last few weeks" ?
is that 1,2,3, 10, 20 ?
leedo lizmat: no more than 3 weeks, probably closer to 2 18:30
i'll try to narrow it down
TimToady reductions should definitely be eager
lizmat leedo: 25 secs for me 18:31
colomon TimToady: really? seems like it would be massively more efficient to not create a 1,000,000 element list for that operation?
leedo it had been < 3 seconds for a year or two now
TimToady star: say [+] 1..1_000_000
camelia star-m 2015.09: OUTPUT«500000500000␤»
flussence it's 42 seconds on my 32-bit netbook... and 42 seconds on my 64-bit desktop. 18:32
TimToady well, that particular case ought to be optimized away anyhoo
lizmat maybe we lost the optimization :-)
flussence (the netbook's 2 months out of date on rakudo)
colomon wonders if [+] should have a special sub for ranges
lizmat it's been known to happen
TimToady obviousl star still has it fast
colomon: that's what I was trying to say
leedo colomon: i did propose that patch a few years ago 18:33
flussence I have one of those in a gist somewhere...
colomon TimToady: ah! I was getting worried that I was missing another huge piece of the picture.
leedo github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/175
DrForr Use Gauss's method in the spirit of Volkswagen, just be sure to check that you're on github :) 18:34
flussence m: gist.github.com/flussence/3007551
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«125000250000␤»
flussence still works :D
colomon fires off rakudobrew build moar Zürich 18:35
18:36 leont joined, rurban1 joined 18:38 rurban left
colomon hurm, rakudobrew failed to build it. :\ 18:38
grondilu colomon: [+] should have a special sub for range indeed IMHO 18:39
lizmat and another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: p6weekly.wordpress.com/2015/10/19/...r-english/
flussence lizmat++ 18:40
colomon lizmat++
18:40 ^elyse^ joined
vendethiel lizmat++ 18:40
moritz lizmat++ # nice! 18:41
colomon woah, there were that many blog posts in the last week? 18:42
vendethiel yeah, tons of them
lizmat *and* ecosystem additions, yup!
brrt++ for providing me with the inspiration for this week's title :-) 18:43
grondilu appreciates the list of blog posts
vendethiel it's amazing 18:44
18:44 rurban joined
colomon so, apparently rakudobrew (and/or possibly rakudo itself) doesn’t like building “moar Zürich” but is fine with “moar c0e0c9748478d517956e38fe1f1a4aa89dba2419” (which is what Zürich is). 18:45
El_Che thx lizmat
18:45 rurban1 left
grondilu is a bit confused by the title "Perl 6 just Perl 5 with ‘use strict’ turned on" and checks out the blog entry. 18:45
lizmat grondilu: Ferdinand should give it away 18:46
pyrimidine :)
[Coke] colomon: I used a unicode tag on purpose. </evil>
grondilu thescienceweb.wordpress.com/2015/1...rned-on-2/
^ not sure what this is about
colomon can confirm that c0e0c9748478d517956e38fe1f1a4aa89dba2419 handles [+] 1..1_000_000 quickly. Of course, it’s probably more or less the same as the star TimToady++ checked.
grondilu m: say [+] ^10*100 18:47
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«499500␤»
grondilu m: say [+] ^10**100
lizmat grondilu: "Dodgy Perl 5 scripts were behind the financial crisis of 2008, the collapse of Enron and the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand."
pyrimidine grondilu: see what lizmat++ said
colomon wants rakudobrew bisect, but doesn’t have the tuits to make it now
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
leedo colomon: yeah, i believe it was a change in october
vendethiel m: my %a = a => 1, b => 2, c => 3; %a{$_}++ for %a.keys; say %a.perl; 18:48
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«{:a(2), :b(3), :c(4)}␤»
leedo i'd have to guess 2275f64e2e447c86c7d3a5804891e5120f4eb212
pyrimidine grondilu: also note the other articles from that blog
18:49 kjs_ left
grondilu it would be a bit difficult to specialize [+] for ranges, as it is defined by &REDUCE(\op) or something. 18:49
^elyse^ Can I mutate %hash while looping through %hash.keys?
Or should I clone the list of keys first? 18:50
TimToady grondilu: no problem, it's a HOP function that can just pick what function to do the reduction with
18:50 softmoth left
grondilu ok 18:50
vendethiel wrt ^elyse^'s issue, I guess it's because .keys is lazy? arguably surprising 18:51
TimToady or at least the type specializer should be able to deal with it, where we have to delay the decision
grondilu m: { (.min + .max)*.elems div 2 }(1..100) == [+] 1.. 100 18:52
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of "==" in expression "(1..100) == [+] 1.. 100" in sink context (line 1)␤»
grondilu m: say { (.min + .max)*.elems div 2 }(1..100) == [+] 1.. 100
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«True␤»
TimToady not quite
grondilu ?
TimToady m: say { (.min + .max)*.elems div 2 }(1..^100) == [+] 1..^100
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«False␤»
lizmat ^elyse^: afaik, .keys takes a snapshot
grondilu m: say (1..^100).max; 18:53
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«100␤»
grondilu is confused
vendethiel m: my %h = a => 1, b => 2; for %h.keys { .say; %h{"Foo$_"} = 5; }; say %h;
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«a␤b␤Fooa => 5, Foob => 5, a => 1, b => 2␤»
TimToady it's an interval, not a list
^elyse^ lizmat: appears not to for me
lizmat m: my %h = a => 42; my $s = "b"; for %h.kv -> \k, \v { say k,v; %h{$s++} = 42 }
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«a42␤»
lizmat m: my %h = a => 42; my $s = "b"; for %h.kv -> \k, \v { say k,v; %h{$s++} = 42 }; dd %h 18:54
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«a42␤Hash %h = {:a(42), :b(42)}␤»
lizmat m: say (1..^100) .max;
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«100␤»
18:55 softmoth joined
lizmat m: say (42..^100) .max; 18:55
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«100␤»
18:55 Hor|zon joined
lizmat m: say (1..^100).excludes-max; 18:55
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«True␤»
lizmat grondilu: ^^^
18:55 dj_goku joined
grondilu m: say max 1..^100 18:55
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«99␤»
grondilu :/ 18:56
looks LTA
lizmat m: say (42..^100).list.max;
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«99␤»
TimToady m: say (1..^100000000000).elems
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«99999999999␤»
leedo btw i did confirm the slowdown happened with 2275f64e2e447c86c7d3a5804891e5120f4eb212 on Oct 9
TimToady the logic is already in .elems
grondilu still caling it max then seems unfortunate. maybe up/down? 18:58
lizmat grondilu: max is the name of the Range attribute
grondilu ok, fine.
TimToady well, max is emphatically not 99
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lizmat TimToady: suggestions for rename / deprecation welcome :-) 18:59
TimToady max is 100 - ϵ
but we don't have a way to represent that
moritz so 100 is the supremum
but only if it's exclusive
TimToady it's the max, but we exclude it :) 19:00
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grondilu I see you want to see it as a real open interval, but if so [+] $range would not make sense. 19:00
lizmat grondilu: fwiw, that's because we use Ranges for many things
TimToady well, that's because if you use a Range as a list, we turn it into one 19:01
lizmat at one point I implemented a IntRange (or was it RangeInt) to make the distinction clearer
n0tjack how do I apply a function to its fixed point?
lizmat but that was considered a bad idea, and hence removed
n0tjack as in, is there a way to say f(f(f(f(x)))) as foo(f,4,x) in some way?
TimToady n0tjack: keep it clean, this is a family-friendly channel 19:02
grondilu ([o] f xx 4)(x)
n0tjack grondilu: Oh damn, that's neat 19:03
grondilu: is there some way to say "keep doing it til the output matches the input"?
grondilu suspects &[o] is a cool new feature with whom lots of nice things can be done.
TimToady or [∘] if you wanna be more high-falutin'
19:03 Akagi201 left
PerlJam don't you need &f in that so that it's not a call 19:03
grondilu n0tjack: probably with first and [\o]
TimToady well, I suspect ∘ will break if you push it too hard, since we're not heavily into left-to-right currying as, say, Haskell is 19:04
grondilu first *.(x) == x, [\o] f xx *
n0tjack grondilu: that just gives me intermediate ouputs, right? what I want is perl to inspect the output of each f and stop o'ing when its output matches its input
grondilu hum
first :by(*.(x) == x), [\o] f xx * 19:05
wait no
first :by(*.(x) == x), [\o] f xx * # gives you the function
not the output
sorry
first *.(x) == x, [\o] f xx * # gives you the function
give us a converging function as an example maybe 19:06
TimToady that's gotta hurt if you miss the swimming pool
n0tjack grondilu: cosine 19:07
grondilu for what $x?
n0tjack pi
grondilu need to use approximation instead of == though 19:08
n0tjack yep
I can try finding an exact converging function
grondilu m: say first -> &f { abs(f(pi) - pi) < 0.01 }, [\o] &cos xx *
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 19:09
grondilu well that did not go too well
FROGGS lizmat++ # weekly
TimToady um, cos can never == pi 19:13
grondilu lol
TimToady can't go over 1
n0tjack TimToady: no, the input is pi
grondilu so true
n0tjack and the convergence point is .739085 or so 19:14
19:14 ponpon is now known as ponbiki
n0tjack converges to 6 decimals at about 10 applications of POSIX cos() 19:14
grondilu yeah so what you want is to stop the iteration when it becomes stable
n0tjack ues
flussence but abs(cos(cos(...(pi))) - pi) will never equal less than 2 or so 19:15
grondilu pi, &cos ... * == *
TimToady are you wanting to compare with the previous value instead?
n0tjack yes, that's what I mean by fixed point
TimToady yeah, like that
grondilu say .[*-1] given pi, &cos ... { abs($^a - $^b) < 0.01 } 19:16
m: say .[*-1] given pi, &cos ... { abs($^a - $^b) < 0.01 }
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«0.735604740436347␤»
grondilu m: say .[*-1] given pi, &cos ... { abs($^a - $^b) < 0.0001 }
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«0.739054790746917␤»
vendethiel m: sub infix:<+>($a, $b, *%h) { say %h }; 3 + 4 :imprecise; # ^elyse^
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«imprecise => True␤»
^elyse^ cool
n0tjack TimToady: when I said "its input matches its output", the referent of "it" was "the current invocation of the function"
TimToady I was speakin' to grondulu mostly 19:17
n0tjack ah
TimToady er, *grondilu
n0tjack sheepishly goes back to trying to learn a one-handed swing cut 19:18
grondilu still wonders if he can get the same result with [o] 19:19
grondilu concludes using a sequence is simple enough. 19:20
n0tjack at least I'm getting really good at 52 pickup
lizmat wonders whether it would make sense to create a Seq.sort that would binary chop building a list, rather than first need to create a whole list
flussence m: sub infix:<≈>(\a, \b, Numeric :$ϵ = 1e-6) { abs(a - b) < $ϵ }; say pi ≈ 22/7 :ϵ(1e-2) 19:21
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«True␤»
19:22 domidumont left
grondilu would not be displeased to have something like that in the core. 19:22
TimToady n0tjack: planning to fool Penn & Teller?
19:23 kjs_ joined
n0tjack TimToady: I may or may not have spent Sunday morning fantasizing about doing just that 19:23
19:23 adhoc left
konobi TimToady: so... the dtrace folks are a nice helpful group. I think it'd be great for perl6 to have dtrace, both in terms of user usage as well as developer usage 19:29
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flussence notes that «perl6 -e 'while prompt(q{> }) -> $_ { say .EVAL.gist }'» starts up 5 seconds faster than the built in repl and is almost as functional... 19:30
konobi TimToady: if you're not sure as to the usefulness, i could dig up some info 19:31
TimToady not really my decision :)
19:31 CIAvash left
moritz konobi: dtrace is freebsd, right? 19:31
TimToady is just the BDFL, with no guarantees of competence at anything
konobi dtrace is freebsd, solaris, illumos and OSX 19:32
moritz ah, OS X too; I didn't know
konobi there's even some support in a linux distro or two
moritz I'm pretty sure unobstrusive patches will be accepted
konobi it's a smidge more involved, since it would also affect how the build happens 19:33
^elyse^ can I instruct sprintf to use %f but with more digits after the decimal point?
moritz m: printf '%.10f', pi 19:34
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«3.1415926536»
konobi moritz: for example... brendangregg.com/blog/2015-03-10/fr...raphs.html
^elyse^ moritz: :D
moritz ^elyse^: was that not what you were after? 19:35
konobi: am I right in assuming that support would need to go into MoarVM? 19:36
^elyse^ yes, it was.
my second real Perl 6 program: gist.github.com/rightfold/e683ff5da9e4895ac7fb :)
jdv79 iirc last time i looked dtrace was not supported on linux 19:37
that's a pretty big target OS to lack support in
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n0tjack ^elyse^: love the flying chevron 19:38
^elyse^ :P
carefully sorted by length 19:39
TimToady but it's missing the entry for 1
PerlJam ^elyse^: me too (though I would have probably stuck _ in the numbers)
^elyse^ wish I could use Duration instead of Real, though
but Duration isn't precise enough to represent yoctoseconds
TimToady need some of them 128-bit floaters... 19:41
19:41 moznion left
hoelzro was the kill($signal, $pid) builtin ever brought over from Perl 5? or is it just NYI and unroasted? 19:41
19:42 PsuzeannePsy left
TimToady I guess it's already got the entry for 1 second etc 19:43
hoelzro: it's pretty trivial to call via NativeCall
hoelzro true, I was just wondering if it'll be entering CORE 19:44
PerlJam Proc::Async has a kill() method
vendethiel m: class A { method foo(:U self:){} }; 19:45
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/n_wTivDIBK␤Missing block␤at /tmp/n_wTivDIBK:1␤------> 3class A { method foo(:7⏏5U self:){} };␤»
vendethiel m: class A { method foo(:U self:) {} };
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/UR9FzQWauA␤Missing block␤at /tmp/UR9FzQWauA:1␤------> 3class A { method foo(:7⏏5U self:) {} };␤»
vendethiel m: class A { method foo(:U:) {} };
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/rnbhkGkURn␤Missing block␤at /tmp/rnbhkGkURn:1␤------> 3class A { method foo(:7⏏5U:) {} };␤»
vendethiel m: class A { method foo(Any:U:) {} }; 19:46
camelia ( no output )
vendethiel m: class A { method foo($?CLASS:U:) {} };#can it use this?
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤In signature parameter $?CLASS, it is illegal to use the ? twigil␤at /tmp/DIi0SG38Z_:1␤------> 3class A { method foo($?CLASS7⏏5:U:) {} };#can it use this?␤Invalid typename 'U' in parameter declaration.␤at /tmp/DIi0SG38Z_:…»
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konobi moritz: in can go into moarvm and rakudo 19:47
n0tjack what's the syntax for instantiating a hash from two arrays (one for keys, other for vals)?
hoelzro PerlJam: right, but that's only for processes you create yourself
TimToady n0tjack: two common ways 19:48
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TimToady %hash{@keys} = {@values} 19:48
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TimToady %has = @keys Z=> @values 19:48
n0tjack ah, Z is what I was looking for
I used X and of course that didn't work
^elyse^ Typo causes line-up, so +1
TimToady bare Z also works
or wait, no it doesn't
not since GLR :)
%hash = flat @keys Z @values would work though 19:49
n0tjack TimToady: Z=> is good enough for moi
is there a function for "shift in"? 19:50
as in 99 magic (1,2,3,4,5) becomes (99,1,2,3,4)? 19:51
same length, but end drops off and first element becomes the new guy
hoelzro ab5tract_: to answer your question from 10 days ago (re: Linenoise + Windows), yes
^elyse^ m: my @xs = 1, 2, 3; @xs.unshift 99; @xs.pop; @xs.say 19:52
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/mc16mNTgmt␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/mc16mNTgmt:1␤------> 3my @xs = 1, 2, 3; @xs.unshift7⏏5 99; @xs.pop; @xs.say␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ statement …»
^elyse^ m: my @xs = 1, 2, 3; @xs.unshift(99); @xs.pop; @xs.say
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«[99 1 2]␤»
n0tjack ^elyse^: yeah, that's more or less what I did
hoelzro I still have not managed to get a working dev env on Windows for Rakudo =/
flussence m: say 0.000000000000000000000000000000001.nude
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«(1 999999999999999945575230987042816)␤»
hoelzro after trying VS2013, VS2015, and Mingw
konobi moritz: i also have the dtrace inventor on my contact list, should there be questions =0) 19:53
^elyse^ m: my @xs = 1, 2, 3; {.unshift(99); .pop} given @xs; @xs.say
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«[99 1 2]␤»
moritz konobi: fwiw I don't know much about a dtrace, the demos I've seen were pretty cool
19:54 llfourn left
moritz konobi: so despite not being on a platform where it's supported, I'm in favour -- as long as it's not too big a burden on the mainters 19:54
*maintainers
19:54 FROGGS left
moritz konobi: and I don't maintain the low-level code, so I don't have much say in that matter 19:54
PerlJam m: my @xs = 1, 2, 3; @xs.=rotate(-1).[0]=99; @xs.say; 19:55
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«[99 1 2]␤»
konobi moritz: yeah... at least there's some experience around from it being implemented in perl5
jdv79 oh, dtrace is also non-win so the usage of that "feature" may be quite limited since i believe most people are on win,lin,osx and dtrace is only on osx.
just sayin
konobi jdv79: wrong
i mentioned the platforms above
PerlJam ^elyse^: rotate can be your friend. 19:56
konobi jdv79: and windows has an equivalent-ish feature too 19:57
jdv79 ok, more power to ya. when i looked into it a few years ago linux support was not there.
n0tjack PerlJam++ 19:58
konobi yeah, linux is still a shitshow in terms of debuggability
on windows it's ETW
19:59 Akagi201 joined
flussence
.oO( the joys of Weaponized Software Licenses )
 19:59
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^elyse^ why can't I put a newline between "x" and ".m" in "x.m"? 20:09
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itz_stmuk the linux dtrace support isn't that good (or wasn't a year or so back). There is systemtap on linux and probably other rewrites 20:09
flussence x is an operator
itz_stmuk its best on solaris, freebsd and os x
^elyse^ flussence: how about "foo" and ".bar" in "foo.bar"? 20:10
flussence foo isn't an infix operator, so that works fine
PerlJam ^elyse^: and if it doesn't, your compiler is too old.
^elyse^ no, I get an error: "Two terms in a row across lines (missing semicolon or comma?)"
TimToady your compiler is too old 20:11
^elyse^ ok XD
thanks
I'll use ==> then
TimToady m: say -42␤ .abs
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«42␤»
TimToady there, a newline
20:15 Akagi201 left
grondilu thought a backslash was required 20:16
PerlJam no longer
grondilu cool 20:17
using backslashes was annoying as it messes up indentation in Vim.
PerlJam grondilu: see github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/cb...ceec2c74de 20:18
TimToady++ for not only making the change, but for providing a highly informative commit message. 20:19
vendethiel m: (&defined)(Any)
camelia ( no output )
vendethiel m: (&defined)(Nil) 20:20
camelia ( no output )
grondilu m: say pi . abs 20:21
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979␤»
vendethiel m: say &defined.candidates
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«(sub defined (Mu \x) { #`(Sub|50144056) ... })␤»
20:21 Hor|zon left
PerlJam is mildly surprised that True.abs does something 20:22
grondilu does that mean I can do [.]??
m: say [.] -42, abs, flip; 20:23
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/LVHstioE1G␤Unsupported use of . to concatenate strings; in Perl 6 please use ~␤at /tmp/LVHstioE1G:1␤------> 3say [.]7⏏5 -42, abs, flip;␤»
grondilu yeah I thought so
PerlJam oh, that would be interesting were it allowed.
vendethiel that can't work. I'd try to call abs() 20:24
maybe a macro ;-)
nine We already have o for that
vendethiel o doesn't "dot-compose"
well
m: say [o] -42, *.abs, *.flip; 20:25
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding <anon>; expected Callable but got Int␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/9Dk6BDS5Ri:1␤␤»
vendethiel m: say ([o] *.abs, *.flip)(-42);
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '0324-7⏏' (indicated by 7⏏)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/MyCkkaY9GH:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in any at gen/moar/m-Metamodel.nqp:2864␤ in block <unit> a…»
20:25 kaare_ left
grondilu flip was a bad example, use log instead 20:25
vendethiel m: say ([o] *.abs, *.log)(-42);
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
grondilu m: say ([o] &abs, &log)(-42) 20:26
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
grondilu abs first
m: say ([o] &log, &&abs)(-42)
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«3.73766961828337␤»
vendethiel ...&&abs?
grondilu (the doubling of & is a typo)
vendethiel oh
just the order changed up. hehe
PerlJam m: &&&&&say("hi")
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«hi␤»
grondilu not much different than my $$$$$$$$$$$$$ 20:27
PerlJam aye.
grondilu m: say "I'm rich" given my $$$$$$$$$$$$
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/yN_Ilga_we␤Cannot declare a variable by indirect name (use a hash instead?)␤at /tmp/yN_Ilga_we:1␤------> 3say "I'm rich" given my $$$$$$$$$$$7⏏5$␤»
grondilu ?
std: my $$ 20:28
camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Cannot declare an indirect variable name at /tmp/iSdLirtp5M line 1:␤------> 3my $7⏏5$␤ expecting any of:␤ desigilname␤ twigil␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 135m␤»
grondilu oh
flussence std: $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 135m␤»
lizmat hmmm... seems dalek is awol 20:29
et09 the rapper dalek? 20:30
feat awol one... lol
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PerlJam um ... what happened to hack? 20:34
moritz a load of about 135 20:35
RabidGravy poor computer
20:35 synbot6 joined
moritz and then, when it didn't react anymore, I rebooted it, forcefully 20:35
PerlJam moritz++
20:36 ][Sno][ is now known as [Sno]
dalek ast: d40553a | lizmat++ | S32-list/grep-v.t:
Add tests for grep :v
 20:43
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dalek kudo/nom: 97954be | lizmat++ | t/spectest.data:
Run grep :kv / :p / :v tests
 20:51
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gamo Hi. How do I do a swap @a[1][2] <-> @b[3][4] ? 20:56
vendethiel github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/ef...4db0b6c365 ... what? can I get an explanation? doesn't that fix warrant a comment there? it's hard to understand 20:58
PerlJam gamo: (@a[1][2], @b[3][4]) = @b[3][4], @a[1][2]; # a way
vendethiel "Definite return values are now allowed" what's that supposed to mean?
gamo ok, just as perl5 20:59
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lizmat m: sub swap(\a,\b) { my $c = a; a = b; b = $c }; my $a = 42; my $b = 666; swap $a, $b; dd $a, $b # naive solution for gamo 21:00
camelia rakudo-moar de4b2b: OUTPUT«Int $a = 666␤Int $b = 42␤»
vendethiel "Methods map, push, pop, shift, unshift, append, prepend now properly marked as nodal" this doesn't tell much to someone reading the changelog :P
lizmat grep nodal S99-glossary.pod # nothing :-( 21:01
PerlJam actually, it's weird that P6 doesn't have some sort of swap built-in
dalek rl6-roast-data: 32c3a01 | coke++ | / (9 files):
today (automated commit)
gamo thanks, bye! 21:02
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ponzellus hi all, I'm starting to play with perl6 but am stuck using an array as a class attribute. when pushing elements into the array, I get the error "Cannot look up attributes in a type object", anybody here who'd like to have a look? :) 21:24
I have a MWE at gist.github.com/phamer/a265d76ce94f7ea91e28
21:25 nick25 joined
PerlJam ponzellus: you don't have an instance of a Room 21:27
vendethiel ponzellus: you didn't create a room
n0tjack ^elyse^: I ruined your chevron: gist.github.com/anonymous/25143c75e96f5dd54940
^elyse^ dat code
tony-o ry @!walls.append($l)
n0tjack the only thing I'm unhappy about there is the hamfisted {@_[@pfx.elems div 2] = 1;@_}
tony-o also 21:28
^elyse^ actually supporting femto is good
more future-proof :P
n0tjack ^elyse^: The fact that femto was missing was creating a bug which drove me crazy
I had no idea why my FACTORS didn't match yours -- in theory it should have ;) 21:29
^elyse^ :P
n0tjack if I could find a functional way to set %scales{' '} to 1, I'd be much happier
PerlJam n0tjack: ETOOCLEVER :) 21:30
n0tjack PerlJam: Believe it or not, this kind of code/thinking/model is 100% standard in APLs
an APLer who say the chevron would say "well, that's a lot of repetition" 21:31
s/say/saw
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PerlJam I'd say that in my head too, but then the next thing would be ... "at least it's readable" 21:31
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pmurias hi 21:32
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n0tjack PerlJam: Well, the syntax of APLs does make the "clever" code completely transparent and straightforward in those languages. I'd argue if you read the algo in native APL vs the original chevron, you'd grok it faster, including the underlying pattern. 21:33
But array-oriented code doesn't translate super well into semicolon/curlybrace languages
though p6 is much more accomodating in that regard than any other language I've seen
dalek kudo/nom: be99be3 | lizmat++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
Fix handling of first :!k, :!p
 21:34
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dalek ast: 9b50630 | lizmat++ | S32-list/first-p.t:
Add tests for first :p
 21:35
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ponzellus PerlJam, vendethiel, d'oh... thank you 21:35
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dalek ast: 1134319 | lizmat++ | S32-list/first-v.t:
Add tests for first :v
 21:38
n0tjack d'oh! 21:44
why didn't I think of this before, much better 21:45
gist.github.com/anonymous/5ea32acacc2aa40e1f5d
1000 X** ... is much better than 10 X** 3 X* ..., and the "set the units to 1" is automagical
21:45 uberbaud joined 21:46 ponzellus left
dalek ast: f70c498 | lizmat++ | S32-list/first-end-p.t:
Add tests for first :end, :p
 21:48
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dalek ast: af18e37 | lizmat++ | S32-list/first-end- (2 files):
Add tests for first :end, :v (and fix count on :p)
 21:53
uberbaud \help
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n0tjack throws a lifering to uberbaud 21:54
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dalek ast: dcf3e06 | lizmat++ | S32-list/first-end (2 files):
Add tests for first :end (and one for :end, :k)
 21:59
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dalek kudo/nom: 46874fd | lizmat++ | t/spectest.data:
Run tests for first :end, :k, :p, :v
 22:05
lizmat Files=1062, Tests=48081, 238 wallclock secs (12.05 usr 3.86 sys + 1440.55 cusr 128.51 csys = 1584.97 CPU) 22:06
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lizmat wonder if we're going to reach 50K before Christmas 22:06
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lizmat but first some sleep 22:11
so good night, #perl6!
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hoelzro pass for ^2000; # done! 22:15
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uberbaud \quit 23:13
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timotimo m: my $r = / foobar /; say $r.match(" foobar "); say $r.submatch(" foobar "); 23:19
camelia rakudo-moar 46874f: OUTPUT«Method 'match' not found for invocant of class 'Regex'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/wXW2csYz_o:1␤␤»
timotimo how come we don't have that?
m: my $r = / foobar /; say $r.submatch(" foobar "); 23:20
camelia rakudo-moar 46874f: OUTPUT«Method 'submatch' not found for invocant of class 'Regex'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/g0JJ12ZwSZ:1␤␤»
23:20 Hor|zon joined
timotimo and why don't we have that? really, no way to match a regex and enforce start- and end-anchoring without embedding the regex into another regex or asserting that after the match? 23:20
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