»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
RabidGravy pointer to a pointer? You van, it's just a second step of indirection. 00:05
dalek c: 9eabdc2 | titsuki++ | doc/Type/ (2 files):
Use .perl instead of dd
c: b9edd20 | titsuki++ | doc/Type/ (2 files):
Merge pull request #1079 from titsuki/use-perl-instead-of-dd

Use .perl instead of dd
notviki titsuki++ 00:06
AlexDaniel oh, there are two posts for 24 now, cool :) 00:09
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samcv do we have to be done with advent or can I make an advent 00:12
it always ends today right? 00:13
notviki In the past, yeah, it ended on 24ths. You can always post a post on blogs.perl.org or perl6.party or any other blog 00:15
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samcv kk 00:20
AlexDaniel awww, that could've been a nice post
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samcv hanukkah is not over yet tho ;) 00:22
notviki samcv: I think you've missed a plan bump in uniprop.t 00:24
samcv oh
k fixing
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mr_ron m: dd $(3, 5, 7) ; dd $[3, 5, 7] 00:27
camelia rakudo-moar 38ec79: OUTPUT«$(3, 5, 7)␤$[3, 5, 7]␤»
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mr_ron what is the difference between the two results and why did item documentation choose $[ ? 00:27
notviki one is a list the other is an array 00:29
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mr_ron m: say $(1, 2, 3) ~~ item(1, 2, 3) 00:29
camelia rakudo-moar 38ec79: OUTPUT«True␤»
mr_ron why does the item documentation do scalar/item of an array? would a list have been as good a choice? Isn't [] an array reference and a scalar anyway if there is a difference between array and array ref in p6? 00:31
notviki There are no references in Perl 6. 00:32
Array is just a mutable List.
mr_ron If there is no ref what is item doing to the array in item([]) ? 00:34
notviki Itemizes it 00:35
m: for [<a b c>] { say "|$_|" }
camelia rakudo-moar 38ec79: OUTPUT«|a|␤|b|␤|c|␤»
notviki m: for item [<a b c>] { say "|$_|" }
camelia rakudo-moar 38ec79: OUTPUT«|a b c|␤»
mr_ron m: for item $(1, 3, 5) { say "|$_|" } 00:37
camelia rakudo-moar 38ec79: OUTPUT«|1 3 5|␤»
mr_ron Seems like sort of an inverse of flat (but not quite sure what I'm talking about) 00:38
rightfold m: my @a = (1,2; 3,4); say @a.perl; 00:39
camelia rakudo-moar 38ec79: OUTPUT«[(1, 2), (3, 4)]␤»
rightfold > Assigning Lists of Lists to @-sigiled variables does not provide the same shortcut. In this case the outer List becomes the first element of the Array.
Is this doc incorrect? ^ 00:40
notviki It would be more helpful if we had context. 00:44
What shortcut?
rightfold Right :-) 00:46
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rightfold docs.perl6.org/language/list#The_@_sigil 00:46
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notviki No idea what it's talking about. 00:47
What shortcut? 00:48
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notviki :S 00:48
m: my @a = (1,2; 3,4); dd @a
camelia rakudo-moar 38ec79: OUTPUT«Array @a = [(1, 2), (3, 4)]␤»
notviki the "outer list" is not first item in the aray
It's possible that was written pre-GLR
committable6: 2015.07 m: my @a = (1,2; 3,4); dd @a
committable6 notviki, ¦«2015.07»: @a = [1, 2; 3, 4]<>
notviki shrugs
rightfold: yes, seems wrong. 00:49
rightfold: you can fix it in this file :) github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/d.../list.pod6
rightfold yay
mr_ron Maybe not that important but it looks like $([1, 2, 3]) examples could be golfed to $(1, 2, 3) ... 00:50
Not same operation but explains same idea
AlexDaniel notviki: fwiw, pre-glr tag can also be used 00:53
notviki cool
AlexDaniel committable6: pre-glr my @a = (1,2; 3,4); dd @a
committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦«pre-glr»: @a = [1, 2; 3, 4]<>
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rightfold Should I write CONSTANT-NAME or CONSTANT_NAME? 00:55
notviki heh
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notviki c'mon, we're not python ;) 00:56
In Perl, you can do it any way you like :)
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mr_ron m: for $(1, 3, 5).item { say "|$_|" }; for $(1, 3, 5).item.flat { say "|$_|" }; for flat($(1, 3, 5).item) { say "|$_|" } 00:57
camelia rakudo-moar c498d5: OUTPUT«|1 3 5|␤|1|␤|3|␤|5|␤|1 3 5|␤»
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AlexDaniel rightfold: CONSTANT-NAME looks nicer though 01:01
mr_ron "There are no references in p6" docs.perl6.org/language/5to6-nutsh...e_creation
notviki rolls eyes at that paragraph 01:02
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notviki reads the "Dereferencing" one and fetches the flamethrower 01:03
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mr_ron If you get to enlightening me(us?) on the docs ... have started watching docs on GitHub 01:05
notviki mr_ron: well, you're free to think we have refernces and use idiotic, superfluous syntax to satisfy a flawed paradigm :) 01:06
m: my @aaa = ^10; my $aref = @aaa; say $aref[2] 01:07
camelia rakudo-moar c498d5: OUTPUT«2␤»
notviki None of that "reference" crap and it still works is my enlightenment :)
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mr_ron I came across item context looking at S04-blocks-and-statements/temp.t in roast and wondered about it. Also wondering if your for item() example might be helpful explanation in item docs. 01:13
notviki mr_ron: I created an issue: github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1081 01:16
mr_ron notviki: thanks 01:17
notviki And the only time I recall needing an item is when telling a set to use a list as one key instead of a slice. 01:18
So I'd say it's not that important piece of equipment.
m: dd elems set $<a b c> 01:19
camelia rakudo-moar c498d5: OUTPUT«1␤»
notviki m: dd elems set <a b c>
camelia rakudo-moar c498d5: OUTPUT«3␤»
mr_ron m: dd elems set <a b c>.item; dd elems set <a b c>.item.flat 01:21
camelia rakudo-moar c498d5: OUTPUT«1␤3␤» 01:22
mr_ron looks again like a sort of inverse of flat but not all syntax seems to work. Is inverse of flat sort of the idea?
dalek c: 39f4221 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/Any.pod6:
Don't reinvent the wheel in .flat example
 01:28
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Any
notviki mr_ron: I think the idea is more of: item−when used with things that contains other things−is to talk about that thing itself rather than the things in it 01:30
mr_ron: that's my understanding of it, but I don't know much. I suspect reading docs about contains would shed some light
*docs about containers
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ugexe hmmm, the advent snowfall.p6 example just gives me a blank screen. And everything else in Terminal::Print's examples/ segfaults 01:50
notviki :( 01:54
rightfold Where are the advent posts? 01:56
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notviki rightfold: perl6advent.wordpress.com 01:58
rightfold Thanks 01:59
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rmothe algum brasileiro? 02:02
quit 02:03
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notviki Infelizmente não 02:28
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notviki How can I introspect a thing in NQP? I need to know what methods I can call on a QAST::Var 05:15
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samcv shapecatcher.com/ 05:43
this is really cool. you can draw unicode chars and it'll find closely matching ones
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samcv sweet. I just fixed MoarVM so Bidi_Matching_Bracket and Bidi_Mirroring_Glyph work! 06:37
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samcv sweet PR sent github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/pull/468 06:49
notviki, if you find out, let me know as well 06:50
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samcv Bidi_Paired_Brackets are derived as follows: two characters, A and B, 07:12
# form a bracket pair if A has gc=Ps and B has gc=Pe, both have bc=ON and
# Bidi_M=Y, and bmg of A is B. Bidi_Paired_Bracket (bpb) maps A to B and
# vice versa, and their Bidi_Paired_Bracket_Type (bpt) property values are
# Open (o) and Close (c), respectively.
07:12 CIAvash joined
samcv interesting. They have a file with all of them, but it's cool they're basically derived from other properties, and even says how you can optimize finding matching brackets based on other properties. this is relevant to me :) 07:12
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toolforger Happy holidays everyone 07:50
samcv happy holidays :)
toolforger MasterDuke, are you there?
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toolforger Totally different question: What places do you find the name of a Perl module in? 08:02
samcv there's a file i believe that stores them
not sure which it is though…
toolforger I was aiming more at the technical level 08:03
I.e. there's modulename.pm
I think it's also declaring its name in code, is that right?
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samcv it can… but doesn't have to 08:05
my modules do not do this. though maybe they should …
toolforger :-)
samcv that's not where it gets them from though. well it looks in directories for them if in the path it wants to look
but there's the hashed modules and then it looks up the names/authors/versions in said file i specified 08:06
and the file puts hashes to the author/modulename etc what it provides
toolforger Is the module namespace hierarchical? I.e. can a module have submodules? 08:08
(Seems they can, just trying to confirm vague description-by-example docs) 08:09
Ah. I just found out what the package keyword does. 08:11
samcv uhm yeah they can
watch out for reverse uh something something 08:12
i think it gets the methods from the lowest on the chain package
maybe. something. idk
maybe that's just objects
toolforger "reverse uh"?
samcv ignore what I just said :) i probably have no clue what i mean
toolforger is even more clueless 08:13
samcv maybe that's BUILD
BUILDALL walks all subclasses in reverse method resolution order (i.e. from Mu to most derived classes) and in each class checks for existence of a method named BUILD. If
yeah ignore what i said :P
toolforger No problem
I'm just trying to find out a bit more about Perl packages in general
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toolforger I guess if @INC contains two directories with the same module, the program will ever see only one of them, right? 08:15
samcv well it goes in the order it is supposed to 08:16
i would read the design.perl6.org for specifics on the order
m: my %hash; %hash<Emoji><type> = 'B'; 08:17
camelia ( no output )
samcv hmm wtf
08:17 domidumont left
toolforger I just wanted to be sure that no two modules with the same name can exist inside a running program :-) 08:18
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samcv no they can though. but. they have to probably have different versions or aauthors 08:18
there was a advent post on this i think 08:19
toolforger I guess if you put modules with the same into two different directories in the search path, you still get only one of them
Or can a program still access both if they have different author and/or version? 08:20
samcv yeah that is true
if you include them by that yeah
ye
though… they probably have to set author in the file if it's not installed and just in a folder 08:21
toolforger is starting to read anything that says "module" in its title on design.perl6.org 08:22
samcv heh 08:23
toolforger Christmas reading :-D
samcv that's usually my goto thing to read if I can't find enough nitty gritty in the docs
toolforger has been reading Language Reference Manuals for a few decades now
Synopsis 11 draws a sharp distinction between _modules_ and _repositories_. The latter may contain multiple versions of the former. Now I "just" have to find out whether a repository has a run-time representation, and whether it allows loading multiple module versions at the same time... 08:28
samcv well it does 08:29
at of like
moar-blead of half a week ago or something
paging nine
toolforger just found a reference to S22 08:33
samcv "In the original Space Invaders the level got faster as you killed more aliens. This was actually not by design but a by product of the graphics rendering being processor limited. As fewer elements were shown on screen the rendering got faster." 08:35
heh
this one is even better though: 08:36
This is from an anecdote by Ken Demarest, one of the original developers who worked on Wing Commander I on the PC...
... we were getting an exception from our EMM386 memory manager when we exited the game. We'd clear the screen and a single line would print out, something like "EMM386 Memory manager error. Blah blah blah." We had to ship ASAP. So I hex edited the error in the memory manager itself to read "Thank you for playing Wing Commander!"
Genius
toolforger Luckily, nobody ever had to maintain it... 08:37
samcv instead of MoarVM errors it should just say "Thank you for using Perl 6!"
"Your trial has expired. Please visit perl6.org to purchase!" 08:38
toolforger Cha-chingggg! $$$
Actually that would be self-regulating
samcv yeah
hahaha
toolforger more errors -> more money to fix them 08:39
money decreases as errors get fixed
Now how to prevent coders from adding errors to make more money...
toolforger thinks he just discovered the business model of some software companies
samcv would still be nice to put "Thank you for using Perl 6" at the end of a moarvm crash lol 08:41
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samcv at least rakudo is more apologetic 08:41
SORRY!
toolforger I wouldn't want the thankyou message though 08:42
samcv yeah i guess.
toolforger It's just like "Your program has crashed, your data lost. [OK]"
samcv true. but would be nice if it was more polite when crashing
toolforger I can't say anything about that. I'm a developer, I don't care about programs pretending to be friendly humans, because I know too well it's fake. 08:43
samcv hah
toolforger So I just ignore the "fluff" and dig right to the technical parts of the message
samcv yah but the human mind can easily just skip over unimportant stuff 08:44
toolforger true
though I found that SORRY annoying, it is visually distracting from what I really want to read
Maybe it should be lowercase, and less standout around it
but that's just my personal preference 08:45
samcv yeah it would be nice if it were titlecase 08:47
Sorry!
though maybe it's made to seem like an error
u: square 08:48
unicodable6 samcv, U+005B LEFT SQUARE BRACKET [Ps] ([)
samcv, U+005D RIGHT SQUARE BRACKET [Pe] (])
samcv, U+033B COMBINING SQUARE BELOW [Mn] (◌̻)
samcv, gist.github.com/720652c58ca12857bc...9e134d740f
samcv oh yes what i was doing. adding more unicode props to moar
toolforger 504 results...
samcv will be my christmas present to myself and all perl 6
toolforger Yeah, Unicode properties are really important 08:49
They guide all the algorithms, and it's the algorithms that make Unicode usable 08:52
samcv oh sweet. i see the problem with our Line Break property
should be able to get it passing the 4 unicode 9 tests we are failing for this one thing
for detecting grapheme count
:D
toolforger I was somewhat surprised that Perl6 was doing its own grapheme definition 08:53
That's a pretty risky move
samcv is it though?
toolforger Yeah
samcv tell me since I don't know that we do…
isn't char's graphemes?
toolforger I think so
samcv *chars
yeah…
well at least it passes all but 4 of the unicode provided tests for this one thing
and hopefully maybe will fix another 50/750 on the other new test i added from unicode 9 08:54
samcv crosses fingers
toolforger Issue is that future modifications of Unicode may make it harder to properly implement graphemes
samcv why would that be?
do we know this might happen?
toolforger It's more a gut feeling on my side
and some historic knowledge about what has changed in Unicode and what hasn't
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toolforger I.e. they might have to introduce something radically new in normalization forms to deal with some corner case in Cuneiform, or whatever 08:55
Perl6' graphemes might lose some of the guarantees they were built for, so they might become pointless 08:56
I foresee the debate raging between "but... uh... it's not correct" and "who cares about Cuneiform" camps 08:57
samcv just count it as unicode defined graphemes
idki
i mean there's already plenty of scripts that we define in graphemes that are are composed of many things
toolforger I'm not sure myself, I probably missed a lot of what the purposes graphemes were designed for 08:58
s/what//
samcv m: 0x00A7.uniprop('Line_Break').say
camelia rakudo-moar a6c37a: OUTPUT«BK␤»
samcv eeeekkkkkk
makes me so sad that is wtrong too
there's so many wrong. i just hope this doesn't break any spectests if we are doing anything weird 08:59
when these all get fixed
not sure why the generation script only specifies certain ones, i think they were forgotten 09:00
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samcv that is not good at all though. 09:00
only specifies like 3/5 of them
so all the rest get the default of BK
toolforger Shouldn't the generation script simply be reading the Unicode character database files? 09:01
samcv agreed. but this one has its own routine
and it has ones specified. i don't know i did not write it 09:02
toolforger Yay for code that doesn't document its purpose :-(
samcv but it makes so much sense why it wasn't passing 1/10 of the tests for 9.0
well no its documented. idk the function is called LineBreak
haha
let me see what happens if i just generate it the same way all the other ones are generated. in theory it should probably work 09:03
toolforger fun times :-D
samcv idk it may have been coded before the other functions were
maybe should check git blame
toolforger just my thinking 09:04
samcv see how long ago it was
in 2012 :D
!!!!!!!!
samcv makes a note to go through and check all the functions written that long ago
toolforger omg 09:05
samcv !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
samcv cries in the corner 09:06
toolforger plays "losing my religion"
"I know I said too much / I haven't said enough"
"that's me in the corner"
samcv ^ 09:07
it's as old as travis ci's ubuntu!
well not ours since i updated it to 14.04 09:08
at least for rakudo
only 19/151 failed tests now :) 09:09
down from like 39 fails (for uniprop)
i am so happy now
toolforger Oh. "Losing my religion" is southern states slang for "losing my temper".
Well, that fits even better :-)
Now the interesting part: are the tests failing that didn't fail before? 09:10
s/the/there/
samcv well i will need to run spectest
well for uniprop at least, just calling that routine
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samcv gonna run the whole suite now 09:11
toolforger New failures outside of uniprop are likely workarounds now failing 09:12
samcv yeah
or incorrect tests. or something the generalized function does that this doesn't but
toolforger So that's "just work", not an indicator that switching to tables was a bad idea
samcv i think it should be fine based on reading the code but. i don't know how half of it works
tables? 09:13
toolforger character database
well, "database", it's just text files after all
samcv uhm it works fine
the problem was just the script used to create moar's thingy
toolforger in tabular form, that's why I misnamed them "tables"
samcv the c file with all the things
ah
no that's fine, it works pretty well 09:14
toolforger sweet
samcv but doesn't work good if you hard code in the list of possible values…
and set anything not those to BK
dalek k-simple: a403ec7 | (Richard Hainsworth)++ | / (6 files):
Merge pull request #1 from perl6/master

merge to master
k-simple: 949481f | finanalyst++ | / (2 files):
Adding a Pane Widget
k-simple: 92c6efd | finanalyst++ | / (5 files):
updating
k-simple: 3a44f5f | (Richard Hainsworth)++ | / (7 files):
Merge pull request #70 from finanalyst/master

update
samcv for the Line_Break property (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
how do you like these tables 09:15
toolforger They are Unicode's Single Source of Truth, so I'd stick with them as far as humanly possible 09:16
samcv no the tables are fine. just. the script makes me mad. the tables are not bad at all
except some of them could use like annotation of them at the top. but i think the reason unicode didn't for some is because they didn't before
(have any comments at all))
like unidata.txt has no lines except data 09:17
toolforger Essentially the tables are just data, their usage is in the algorithms
samcv and i don't think any comments
yeah and some are derived but there's separate files for them anyway, which is probably good
on both counts
toolforger I'm not sure whether one should use the pregenerated dependent tables, or just download them from unicode.org 09:18
samcv wait what. pregenerated?
toolforger a.k.a. derived
samcv well that's from unicode.org
Bidi_Paired_Brackets are derived as follows: two characters, A and B,
<samcv> # form a bracket pair if A has gc=Ps and B has gc=Pe, both have bc=ON and
<samcv> # Bidi_M=Y, and bmg of A is B. Bidi_Paired_Bracket (bpb) maps A to B and
<samcv> # vice versa, and their Bidi_Paired_Bracket_Type (bpt) property values are
<samcv> # Open (o) and Close (c), respectively.
for example. but it has its own file 09:19
toolforger Generating on your own swaps the Unicode consortium's mistakes in the generation process with your own, not sure whether that's a good or a bad trade
Probably better to leave it to unicode.org though. They have more attention span left for issues with that. 09:20
samcv well i like to think that they probably did it right
toolforger nods
samcv since the files are cannon. but i mean if it's derived then there could be errors
because the values in that file definitive values are based on their rules. but if there's an error in a non-derived property then that's not an error. it's a mistake i guess 09:21
toolforger Anyway.
The usage of the data is explained in the Technical Reports that unicode.org carries
samcv yeah. i wish the technical reports were in their ftp 09:22
if they are i didn't find them
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samcv well. some are. not all 09:22
toolforger I tend to download them via HTTP
also the annexes
E.g. UAX #9 details bidi 09:23
samcv yeah
09:23 cibs left
toolforger that also defines how to interpret the bidi data files, so you don't need extra commentary on the bidi data 09:23
I've been thinking that's the way it is for all data files 09:24
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dalek k-simple/revert-70-master: 5b0a16a | (Richard Hainsworth)++ | / (7 files):
Revert "update"
 09:27
k-simple: 5b0a16a | (Richard Hainsworth)++ | / (7 files):
Revert "update"
 09:28
k-simple: 0f3b51e | (Richard Hainsworth)++ | / (7 files):
Merge pull request #71 from perl6/revert-70-master

Revert "update"
samcv well so far it's passing all the spectests :) 09:30
almost done 09:31
toolforger Argh. Perl really got the multi dispatch wrong. In the sense that adding another module may change MD resolution for modules that are unaware of that module. 09:32
samcv that sounds such a pain 09:39
gonna add in East_Asian_Width property too now
that is a useful one
toolforger spectest passed?
s/spectest/spectests/
samcv yep :)
toolforger :-):-):-)
samcv deleted that 2012 code
and it felt good
toolforger :-D 09:40
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samcv east asian width working now too :) as of 30 secs ago 09:41
TEttinger nice 09:44
toolforger Oh. A12 says "we want to be able to run different versions of the Frog module simultaneously" 09:46
samcv who would not want multiple frogs 09:48
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toolforger And it's unclear whether he really means classes or modules, the terminology changes within the paragraph. 09:48
samcv modules are classes though
but i am sure the wording is poor as well 09:49
;)
toolforger I can understand that
It's an Apocalypse anyway, I still have to read the Exegesis and the Synopses
fortunately A12 insists that version and author information be available as metadata, so there's hope 09:50
Plus, it's Perl, so there's always hope that SOMEBODY thought about any problem you see :-)
samcv ^ 09:51
it makes me sad. i saw pythons list of unicode properties it supports with the unicode whatever pluginmodulewhatever
and it was so short
and i almost cried 09:52
though there probably are more extra modules whatever, but i think all unicode props MINIMUM the ones in the UCD should be in any modern language
toolforger Python seems to be attracting people with not enough knowledge about module design and guarantees
Stuff like "no globals", "specify a contract", "no hidden contract clauses" etc. are routinely violated 09:53
09:54 bjz left
toolforger The language itself is a surprising mix: pretty neat overall, but some glaring design mistakes 09:55
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toolforger Phew. A16 done. I just skimmed most of it, but I need a break :-) 09:59
seeya! 10:00
10:00 toolforger left
samcv kk! 10:00
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samcv now to add in the Unicode_1_Name property. kewl 10:13
don't think i'm going to add the UNicode 1 name until this PR gets accepted though 10:18
i am done for tonight though! all of them now pass except the NFK NFC weird ones that we prolly alrady have in MoarVM but just don't expose it in moar, so very productive day
night all
ufobat hi :-) little zef question, i think that if zef has someting in the LocalCache it takes a module from there instead of querying github. how can i "force" to take it from github or how can I delete the cache
when installing Data::Dump zef takes a probably older version from its localcache, i think 10:19
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ufobat i did probably something stupid but removing $HOME/.zef/* helped 10:29
RabidGravy removing things is always the solution 10:34
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dalek c: cab78cb | gfldex++ | doc/Language/typesystem.pod6:
doc parameters for roles
 12:51
c: f7eeb52 | gfldex++ | doc/Language/typesystem.pod6:
we call them parameters these days and we indent examples with 4 spaces
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/language/typesystem
gfldex I'm docing things because I cant move. Merry Christmas to all of you and don't eat as much as I did. 12:52
rightfold But I'm hungry! 12:55
AlexDaniel
.oO( maybe we can start feeding people forcibly… :) )
 12:56
tbrowder Merry Christmas, #perl6!
rightfold $food ==> &rightfold
tbrowder And Happy Birthday, Perl 6! 12:57
ufobat does stuff like this make sense in a way? class F { has $*foo } or class F { my @.bar } I just did "my" instead of "has" and i was wondering why it isnt a error
AlexDaniel my is not an attribute, so it's ｢my @bar｣ 12:58
m: class Foo { my $x; method z { say $x++ } }; Foo.new.z; Foo.new.z
camelia rakudo-moar a6c37a: OUTPUT«0␤1␤»
AlexDaniel and it makes sense, ya 12:59
ufobat but when i am writing my with twigil? 13:00
shouldn't has require ! or . as twigil and my allow just the others? 13:04
gfldex ufobat: no because a class is also a package 13:05
notviki ufobat: my @.foo is a class attribute
gfldex m: class C { my $.bar }; say C.^methods 13:06
camelia rakudo-moar a6c37a: OUTPUT«(bar)␤»
gfldex the . twigil will create an accessor method
ufobat so in classes my is more or less the same as has?
notviki ufobat: errr, no
ufobat: has $.foo is an instance attribute and my $.foo is a class attribute
ufobat ah 13:07
and what about class F {has $*foo}?
AlexDaniel ufobat: I think has $f defaults to has $!f
m: class Foo { my $x; method z { say $!x } }; say Foo.new.x
camelia rakudo-moar a6c37a: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Attribute $!x not declared in class Foo␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3lass Foo { my $x; method z { say $!x } }7⏏5; say Foo.new.x␤ expecting any of:␤ horizontal whitespace␤ postfix␤ …»
notviki m: class Foo { my $.foo; has $.bar }; my $f1 = Foo.new: :42foo; my $f2 = Foo.new: :72foo; $f1.bar = 'meow'; dd [ .foo, .bar ] for $f1, $f2 13:08
camelia rakudo-moar a6c37a: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Any␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
notviki screw you
m: class Foo { has $.foo; my $.bar }; my $f1 = Foo.new: :42foo; my $f2 = Foo.new: :72foo; $f1.bar = 'meow'; dd [ .foo, .bar ] for $f1, $f2
camelia rakudo-moar a6c37a: OUTPUT«[42, "meow"]␤[72, "meow"]␤»
AlexDaniel m: class Foo { has $x; method z { say $!x } }; say Foo.new.x
camelia rakudo-moar a6c37a: OUTPUT«No such method 'x' for invocant of type 'Foo'␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
AlexDaniel m: class Foo { has $x; method z { say $!x } }; say Foo.new.z
camelia rakudo-moar a6c37a: OUTPUT«(Any)␤True␤»
AlexDaniel yea
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ufobat okay, clear so far 13:10
gfldex ufobat: $*-sigiles variables are lookup in the callers-scope. I'm not sure if that makes sense for classes. You may want to query roast to see if that case is tested. If not, it's just an artifact.
m: class C { my $*d = 1; method d { $*d } }; C.new.d 13:12
camelia rakudo-moar a6c37a: OUTPUT«Dynamic variable $*d not found␤ in method d at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
gfldex do we have introspection for dynamic variables for a package (from outside the package) 13:13
?
m: class C { our $*d = 1; method d { $*d } }; my $*d = 2; say C.new.d
camelia rakudo-moar a6c37a: OUTPUT«2␤»
13:16 AlexDaniel left
notviki m: class C { our $*d = 1; method d { $*d } }; my $*d = 2; say C::.keys' 13:27
camelia rakudo-moar a6c37a: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3od d { $*d } }; my $*d = 2; say C::.keys7⏏5'␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement end␤ …»
notviki m: class C { our $*d = 1; method d { $*d } }; my $*d = 2; say C::.keys
camelia rakudo-moar a6c37a: OUTPUT«($*d)␤»
13:29 Gavs joined
Gavs hello 13:29
RabidGravy I suppose I could make a special hack of the parser to allow the Amharic translation of "use" and then gist.github.com/jonathanstowe/9e6d...abf210641d would be perfect 13:31
notviki Gavs: hi
Gavs how is development on Perl6 going?
notviki Gavs: busy 13:32
RabidGravy it's finished, we're just the cleaners cleaning up after the party ;-)
notviki Gavs: first production release was released exactly a year ago, if that's what you're asking.
Gavs oh, nice
13:33 lustlife joined
Gavs I just haven't heard about it at all, it's not in the mainstream 13:33
but, from my experience Perl community is the friendliest, so I thought I'd just try to check it out 13:34
notviki We like to keep a low profile :)
RabidGravy underground is the best, same for programming languages as music ;-)
notviki Yeah, we're friendly. I mean, what other community has a hug bot?
huggable: hug Gavs 13:35
huggable hugs Gavs
notviki ^_^
Gavs haha cute :D
RabidGravy actually if were to make a module that introduced a slang or macros that has "use" in every known language then the jobs a good un 13:36
Gavs any interesting stuff about v6? something to win other programmers over?
notviki Gavs: grammars and sane concurency, we'd be my picks 13:37
RabidGravy unicode identifiers, fabulous aynchronous programming
13:37 TEttinger joined
notviki *would'd be 13:37
Gavs hmm
RabidGravy rich object metamodel
notviki Gavs: Perl 6 parses itself. That's how powerful grammars are.
Gavs what are grammars about exactly? 13:38
RabidGravy regular expressions on steroids in summary
notviki Gavs: parsing text
Gavs ah, I see
notviki Gavs: you can also do stuff when some rule finishes parsing. Here's a calculator: docs.perl6.org/language/grammars#C...g_Grammars 13:39
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notviki And they're classes, so you can mixin roles and subclass them \o/ 13:40
Gavs I'm generally retarded in terms of regex and such, but I think I get it
notviki Gavs: as for concurrency.... I have a short lighning talk I did in a "look, shiny" format: perl6.party/post/Perl-6-What-Progra...re-Is-Like 13:41
( slides at tpm2016-2.zoffix.com/ )
Gavs thank you 13:42
any notable web stuff? frameworks? 13:43
RabidGravy I think I'm going to fire up a concurrency cookbook in the new year, separate to the workflow/FSM stuff
notviki Gavs: nope, nothing native. However, we have excellent interop with Perl 5, so you could use Mojolicious, for example (I heard Catalyst works too) 13:44
Gavs oh :/
RabidGravy It does work I tried it
notviki Gavs: web is kinda of a weak point for us at the moment, due to performance.
Gavs perhaps something will come up in the future
notviki Gavs: and stability.
Yeah, probably in a year or two. 13:45
Gavs I guess Perl could be quite powerful there
RabidGravy though Bailador, Crust etc work quite well it's just someone needs to pick these up and run with them 13:46
gfldex I know of 2 CONC bugs that are a blocker for most web stuff. If those are fixed we are ready to rock (IMHO).
notviki RabidGravy: do they actually? Doesn't Bailador not support concurrent requests or has that been fixed?
SmokeMachine What's wrong?
m: class A is Proxy {has $.val; has &.STORE = method ($v) {$.val = $v}; has &.FETCH = method () {$.val}}; my \a := A.bless; a = 42
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
SmokeMachine Shouldn't that work? 13:47
gfldex SmokeMachine: you are trying to subclass a very internal class.
RabidGravy it would be nice if that worked though
gfldex the magic of Proxy is hardwired into it's new method
SmokeMachine :( 13:48
RabidGravy I do use Proxy quite a lot
gfldex you would have to provide a new method in A that is calling Proxy.new (brain compiled)
RabidGravy yeah, I'm certain it could be made to work 13:49
SmokeMachine I tried that to...
gfldex and you will add slowness to you program. Some benchmarking early one may save you headaches.
SmokeMachine m: class A is Proxy {has $.val; method new {callwith(STORE => method ($v) {$.val = $v}, FETCH = method () {$.val})}}; my \a := A.new; a = 42 13:50
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix = instead␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3ORE => method ($v) {$.val = $v}, FETCH =7⏏5 method () {$.val})}}; my \a := A.new; a␤»
SmokeMachine 11:50 <SmokeMachine> m: class A is Proxy {has $.val; method new {callwith(STORE => method ($v) {$.val = $v}, FETCH => method () {$.val})}}; my \a := A.new; a = 42 13:51
m: class A is Proxy {has $.val; method new {callwith(STORE => method ($v) {$.val = $v}, FETCH => method () {$.val})}}; my \a := A.new; a = 42
Sorry I'm on a mobile...
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«MoarVM panic: Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 131728 bytes␤»
13:53 Gavs left
SmokeMachine m: class A is Proxy {has $.val; method new {samewith(STORE => method ($v) {$.val = $v}, FETCH => method () {$.val})}}; my \a := A.new; a = 42 13:54
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 0␤ in method new at <tmp> line 1␤ in method new at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
SmokeMachine gfldex: ^^ 13:55
RabidGravy: any idea?
13:57 lustlife left
SmokeMachine RabidGravy: I'm glad you "liked" my advent calendar post, thanks! 13:57
RabidGravy I don't have any particular ideas but I suspect that the constructor of proxy is doing something other than expecting two named arguments 13:58
and I think it's implemented entirely in nqp so I can't find the source right now ;-) 13:59
notviki m: class A is Proxy {has $.val; method new {self.Proxy::new: (STORE => method ($v) {$.val = $v}, FETCH => method () {$.val})}}; my \a := A.new; a = 42
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2␤ in method new at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
SmokeMachine RabidGravy: docs.perl6.org/type/Proxy#method_new 14:00
RabidGravy yeah I think its Positional[Pair]
gfldex RabidGravy: src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:1347
calling self.Proxy::new would return the wrong type object (Proxy instead of A) 14:02
Proxy does not provide accessor methods for its attributes called STORE and FETCH. So the author (likely jnthn) didn't want you to fiddle with them. 14:03
moritz so have two advent posts for day 24 :-)
*we
gfldex \o/ 14:04
double is twice as good 14:05
SmokeMachine m: class A is Proxy {has $.val; has &!STORE = method ($v) {$.val = $v}; has &!FETCH = method () {$.val}}; my \a := A.bless; a = 42 14:06
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«Cannot invoke this object (REPR: Null; VMNull)␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
notviki m: class A is Proxy {has $.val; method new {self.bless: STORE => method ($v) {$.val = $v}, FETCH => method () {$.val}}}; my \a := A.new; A = 42
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«Cannot look up attributes in a A type object␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
notviki SmokeMachine: what were you trying to do anywhay? 14:07
gfldex The problem is that Proxy isn't using a submethod where it should. 14:08
14:08 ufobat left
RabidGravy I'm wondering whether you could actually do it with delegation of some sort 14:08
gfldex SmokeMachine: please file a rakudobug saying: "can't subclass Proxy".
14:09 pyrimidi_ left, pyrimidine joined
gfldex you an do it functional with hiding the private attributes in a closure. 14:09
SmokeMachine notvick: I'm writing a HTML::Builder... so I'm writing it to use something like: HTML { .version = 5; .BODY += "blablabla"} like the kotlin HTML builder... and on my model tag attributes should be subclass of proxy... 14:11
gfldex m: role C {}; sub postfix:<.new>(C $what){}; C.new
camelia ( no output )
SmokeMachine gfldex: doing that!
gfldex that way you can make make a sub call look like a method call 14:12
notviki
.oO( what could possibly go wrong! )\
14:12 pmurias left
gfldex that's what I am thinking about right now 14:12
if you mixin that role, things might get wonky 14:13
notviki m: role C {}; sub postfix:<.new>(C $what){}; C.new; 42.new 14:14
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Calling postfix:<.new>(Int) will never work with declared signature (C $what)␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub postfix:<.new>(C $what){}; C.new; 427⏏5.new␤»
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gfldex m: role C {}; multi sub postfix:<.new>(C $what){}; multi sub postfix:<.new>($what, |c){ $what.new(|c) }; C.new; 42.new 14:17
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
notviki try using new $what: form 14:18
right now you're just calling the same postfix in infiniloop
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gfldex m: role C {}; multi sub postfix:<.new>(C $what){}; multi sub postfix:<.new>($what, |c){ $what.^can('new')[0]($what, |c) }; C.new; say 42.new 14:19
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«0␤»
moritz has some free time, and doesn't feel at all like hacking or writing 14:20
SmokeMachine gfldex: I linked the log of this conversation, ok?
gfldex yes
RabidGravy I was wondering about something similar for an arbitrary thingy maker, I don't now what language it is that allows "foo { bar = 1; zub { .... } }"
and wondered whether it could be in code rather than a gramma 14:22
SmokeMachine RabidGravy: notviki : kotlinlang.org/docs/reference/type...lders.html
gfldex RabidGravy: looks like sub calls that take a block as it's single argument 14:23
14:23 cibs left
SmokeMachine gfldex: that's how I'm implementing the HTML() function... 14:24
gfldex dude, there is a module for that
:->
github.com/gfldex/perl6-typesafe-xhtml-writer 14:25
i'm cheating tho
14:25 cibs joined
gfldex I use the xhtml schema to generate most of the modules code 14:25
RabidGravy nothing cheating about that, that's what machine readable descriptions are for ;-) 14:26
gfldex makes the rest of the code rather ugly 14:27
SmokeMachine gfldex: thanks... throwing all my code on the garbage...
RabidGravy I started looking at the OpenAPI (née Swagger) thing the other day and concluded that some of the specs around JSON are made of crack
gfldex For any perl project: 1) check if there is a module, 2) ask on perlmonks which of those 5 modules you should use to have your problem solved, 3) implement as little code yourself as you can because writing good tests is hard 14:29
RabidGravy JSON-Pointer is just like a crap non-obvious implementation of XPath
gfldex XPath is non-obvious too :-> 14:31
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RabidGravy I'm with you on 1 or 3, stopped using perlmonks ten years ago 14:31
gfldex I'm hoping we can avoid to replicate the redundancy you can find with Perl 5 modules. 14:32
RabidGravy but I often find a module which is more trouble than it's worth an re-implement the whole thing
14:33 ufobat joined
RabidGravy gfldex, the thing is a given problem space may have a number of different solutions, and in Perl 6 that may be more marked as you could do OO, functional or whatever styles 14:34
so I can foresee a proliferation 14:35
gfldex no reason not to put OO and functional into the same module
that's what commit bits are fore
RabidGravy there are no reasons to do it either
why make code that you don't want to use? 14:36
rightfold Is there a function to replace a file extension, or should I use subst?
gfldex I wouldn't but I would give somebody a commit bit to do the other part, so long it makes using Perl 6 easier. 14:37
SmokeMachine gfldex: that was more a way to study than a project... 14:38
gfldex SmokeMachine: it resulted in a bug-report. So it's all good. 14:39
notviki m: "foo.txt".IO.&({.parts<basename>.subst: .extension, "doc"; $_}).say 14:51
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«"foo.txt".IO␤»
moritz what's a file exxtension?
in foo-1.2.3.tar.gz, is the file extension tar.gz or just gz?
and doesn't that change whether you talk about using gunzip or tar?
notviki m: "foo-1.2.3.tar.gz".IO.extension.say
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«gz␤»
notviki It's gz! :)
gfldex file extensions are defined for DOS
the convention is 'the last thing behind a dot in a basename' 14:52
m: "foo.txt.txt".IO.&({.parts<basename>.subst: .extension, "doc"; $_}).say 14:53
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«"foo.txt.txt".IO␤»
gfldex m: my $extension = 'buz'; say '/foo/bar.buz.buz'.subst(/'.' <$extension> $/, '')
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«/foo/bar.buz␤»
gfldex m: my $extension = 'buz'; say '/foo/bar.buz.buz'.subst(/'.' <$extension> $/, 'txt')
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«/foo/bar.buztxt␤»
gfldex m: my $extension = 'buz'; say '/foo/bar.buz.buz'.subst(/'.' <$extension> $/, '.txt')
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«/foo/bar.buz.txt␤»
rightfold notviki: TIL .& 14:54
$out.subst(/'.purs'$/, ".purspg").IO works :-) 14:55
notviki m: sub cool { $^z.uc }; "neat".&cool.say
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«NEAT␤»
15:00 jkaye joined 15:02 lustlife joined
jkaye Is it possible to constraint type captures within roles and/or subs? Essentially I want to be able to say something like `sub test(::SomeType $type) where SomeType <: Concrete:U` 15:03
notviki What's "<:"? 15:04
moritz m: role A[Cool:D ::T] { method t { T } }; say A[42].t 15:05
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
gfldex jkaye: yes, use a subset
SmokeMachine Shouldn't .extension be rw?
moritz nope
gfldex jkaye: see docs.perl6.org/language/typesystem...Parameters
lustlife camelia:help 15:06
camelia lustlife: Usage: <(nqp-js|prof-m|rakudo-MOAR|nqp-parrot|rakudo-jvm|std|nqp-jvm|rakudo-moar|nqp-moarvm|niecza|debug-cat|star-j|pugs|p5-to-p6|star-m|r-j|r|P|Pnr|star|rnP|sj|perl6|j|rPn|rm|M|nqp-mvm|p6|nr|nqp-q|rn|r-m|m|nrP|rj|p56|nqp|rakudo|sm|r-jvm|nPr|Prn|n|nom|nqp-m)(?^::\s(?!OUTPUT))
..$perl6_program>
moritz uhm, most of those are probably outdated
p: say 42
P: say 42
camelia pugs: OUTPUT«sh: /home/camelia/.cabal/bin/pugs: No such file or directory␤»
TEttinger ha wow
nrP: say 42 15:07
15:07 camelia left
TEttinger oh 15:07
camelia come back!
RabidGravy bad TEttinger BAD BAD
moritz M: say 42 15:08
15:08 camelia joined
TEttinger yay 15:08
star-j: say 42
std: say 42 15:09
j: say 42
jkaye gfldex: Excellent! I've been looking for this exact documentation for an hour or so. Thank you
TEttinger I wonder if I'm ignored
moritz niecza: say 42
TEttinger m: say 42
oh crud
camelia niecza: OUTPUT«Can't chdir to '/home/camelia/niecza': No such file or directory at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 184.␤ EvalbotExecuter::_auto_execute(HASH(0x3905f00), "say 42", GLOB(0x3b7c580), "<tmp>", "niecza") called at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 132␤ EvalbotExecuter::_fork_an…»
moritz TEttinger: stop flooding it please :-)
camelia ..rakudo-jvm 8ca367: OUTPUT«42␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«sh: /home/camelia/.cabal/bin/pugs: No such file or directory␤»
15:09 ChanServ sets mode: +v camelia
TEttinger woah 15:09
camelia niecza: OUTPUT«Can't chdir to '/home/camelia/niecza': No such file or directory at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 184.␤ EvalbotExecuter::_auto_execute(HASH(0x3905f00), "say 42", GLOB(0x3b7c580), "<tmp>", "niecza") called at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 132␤ EvalbotExecuter::_fork_an…»
..rakudo-jvm 8ca367: OUTPUT«42␤»
moritz TEttinger: after a rejoin, it needs a while to work around its rate limit
camelia ..rakudo-jvm 8ca367: OUTPUT«42␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«sh: /home/camelia/.cabal/bin/pugs: No such file or directory␤»
star-j 2016.10: OUTPUT«(timeout)Can't exec "./bin/perl6-j": No such file or directory at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 206.␤#perl6 <TEttinger> std: say 42␤» 15:10
star-j 2016.10: OUTPUT«No such file or directory»
std : OUTPUT«No such file or directory»
niecza : OUTPUT«(timeout)cat: /home/camelia/niecza/VERSION: No such file or directory␤Received line i.freenode.net 352 camelia #learnprogramming ~gucci_meo 112.205.25.245 kornbluth.freenode.net gucci_meow H :0 gucci_meow that is not IRC protocol␤Received line camelia #perl6-dev…»
15:10 lukaramu left
TEttinger uh wha 15:10
moritz nqp-parrot: say(42)
camelia nqp-parrot: OUTPUT«No such file or directory»
moritz nqp-json: say(42=
camelia nqp-parrot: OUTPUT«(timeout)Can't exec "./rakudo-inst/bin/nqp-p": No such file or directory at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 206.␤msg <lustlife> Perl6: sub powers_of ($radix) { $radix \xAB**\xAB [0 ... *] }; say powers_of(2)[^5];␤»
jkaye gfldex: Do you know if there is a difference between using the type capture constraints vs a signature like this one: `sub getLogger(Str $name, LogEntry:U $logEntryType=JK-LogEntry) returns Logger[$logEntryType]` ? 15:11
TEttinger that's a bit messy
moritz prof-m: say 42
camelia prof-m : OUTPUT«No such file or directory»
.. Prof: p.p6c.org/3bb61c3
jkaye The latter does work which actually surprised me a bit, but it doesn't seem to communicate the intent quite as well
gfldex jkaye: I would not expect the returns form to work
TEttinger what is nrP anyway 15:12
camelia prof-m : OUTPUT«(timeout)Can't exec "./rakudo-inst/bin/perl6-m": No such file or directory at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 206.␤cat: /home/camelia/rakudo-inst/revision: No such file or directory␤␤now running scp...␤/tmp/mprof.html: No such file or directory␤»
.. Prof: p.p6c.org/3bb61d9
jkaye gfldex: Yeah, I was really surprised when it worked
moritz TEttinger: niecza, rakudo, Pugs
TEttinger oh wow
moritz std: say 42
camelia std : OUTPUT«No such file or directory»
TEttinger I can see why that crashes it...
moritz p5-to-p6: print("42\n")
camelia p5-to-p6 : OUTPUT«# Do not edit this file - Generated by Perlito5 9.021␤␤print('42' ~ chr(10))␤»
std : OUTPUT«(timeout)cat: /home/camelia/std/snap/revision: No such file or directory␤#perl6 <moritz> p5-to-p6: print("42\n")␤sh: Perlito: command not found␤» 15:13
TEttinger something seems wrong
moritz TEttinger: you mean that nobody has maintained that beast in the last two years, except for fixing rakudo-m and star-m when it's broken?
TEttinger no, I mostly mean there seems to be some mix of input and output in this current session 15:14
m: say 42
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«42␤»
dalek albot: 7dd2944 | moritz++ | evalbot.pl:
Remove some targets that don't work anymore
TEttinger hooray
jkaye gfldex: Huh, the capture constraint actually doesn't work in this case it seems. Or perhaps I am using it wrong. This signature: ` sub getLogger(Str $name, LogEntry:U ::LogEntryType $logEntryType=JK-LogEntry) returns Logger[LogEntryType]` gives me this error: Cannot find method 'ACCEPTS' on object of type LogEntryType 15:15
TEttinger m: say s
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤ s used at line 1␤␤»
lustlife hi,i see some code here => rosettacode.org/wiki/Hamming_numbers#Perl_6 => sub powers_of ($radix) { 1, |[\*] $radix xx * } . i want to use hyper operator for the same things: sub powers_of ($radix) { $radix «**« [0 ... *] } ; say powers_of(2)[^10] ; but get an error, anyone can help?
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gfldex jkaye: please file a bug report 15:15
jkaye gfldex: Sure thing if you think that's actually a bug 15:16
moritz lustlife: what error do you get?
lustlife m: sub powers_of ($radix) { $radix «**« [0 ... 10] }; say powers_of(2)[^5];
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«(1 2 4 8 16)␤»
SmokeMachine Is there any plan to "create" a rakudo to iOS?
jkaye I'm usually hesitant to think it's misuse :)
gfldex jkaye: if you get a type object from `my $T = Logger[LogEntryType]`, than it's a bug
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lustlife m: sub powers_of ($radix) { $radix «**« [0 ... *] }; say powers_of(2)[^5]; 15:17
moritz: List on right side of hyperop of infix:<**> is known to be infinite 15:18
moritz lustlife: that's because hyperops are eager
15:18 ChanServ sets mode: +v camelia
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«List on right side of hyperop of infix:<**> is known to be infinite␤ in sub powers_of at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤» 15:18
moritz lustlife: and you can't eagerly evaluate an infinite list
use X** instead, which is lazy
notviki moritz: do you know anything about statement_ids on QAST::Vars? (see my Q in #perl6-dev) 15:19
moritz m: say (2 X** (0..*)).head(5)
camelia rakudo-moar 8104ff: OUTPUT«(1 2 4 8 16)␤»
moritz M-Illandan: no
sorry, meant notviki (no)
notviki aw :(
moritz notviki: you could look into the git blame, maybe the commit that introduced them gives you some idea 15:20
dalek c: 8f2fa9f | gfldex++ | doc/Language/typesystem.pod6:
index role (typesystem)
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/language/typesystem
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lustlife moritz: thx , it works, learn that hyperops are eager. 15:23
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lustlife moritz: how can i know weather 15:28
15:29 bstamour left
lustlife moritz: how to know whether an operator is lazy or not? 15:30
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bstamour Happy holidays everyone! 16:03
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notviki Happy! 16:10
tailgate happy jolidays 16:21
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moritz Merry Christmas! 16:22
RabidGravy መልካም ገና 16:29
tailgate some of those characters need to become operators
RabidGravy I wouldn't know how to type any of them unfortunately 16:31
but gist.github.com/jonathanstowe/9e6d...abf210641d
it's a shame I have to have "use" in the script though 16:32
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KinkkoPekkonen hey what ide u use? 16:34
RabidGravy ide?
KinkkoPekkonen every time I come back to perl6 it kinda lacked some nice setup
what editor
atom?
vim?
what makes u most comfortable with perl6 16:35
RabidGravy I use vim (or whatever vi like thing thing is around)
KinkkoPekkonen u compile stuff manually like in next terminal
notviki I use atom
bstamour I use emacs. Just like I do for everything else
RabidGravy can't abide graphical editors
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KinkkoPekkonen is there some addition for atom? 16:36
tailgate are there even perl5 oriented IDEs?
KinkkoPekkonen usually languages have shiny stuff in vim atom or stuff?
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tailgate something like IDEA or eclipse, i mean 16:36
notviki KinkkoPekkonen: there's "language-perl6" to give highlights and I saw some kind of tool-thing too, just searrch for perl6
tailgate: Pedro or whatever it's called? 16:37
Padre
KinkkoPekkonen I used one tool padre or what not
but it crashed often
I don't mind vim or atom
notviki Yeah, I had the same experience with it
KinkkoPekkonen I thought some experienced old wolf of perl6 has comfortable workflow going on for him
and does not mind sharing
or her
RabidGravy there's some plugin for Eclipse too, but y'know, Eclipse
notviki There aren't any experienced old wolves. The language is 1 year old 16:38
KinkkoPekkonen we'll it's been developed for nearly a decade
:-D
notviki 15 years isn't nearly a decade ;)
RabidGravy I just work with code the same as I have been working with code for twenty five years
notviki KinkkoPekkonen: I just use atom and alt+tab (or ctrl+space on my dual-monitor system) to a terminal, press Up and enter to run 16:39
RabidGravy it doesn't really matter what language it is, it's just text
KinkkoPekkonen well something really cool is what clojure has that send to repl thing
notviki we have the repl
just run `perl6` without any args
tailgate RabidGravy: I used to write eclipse plugins for a lving, it was insane 16:40
KinkkoPekkonen I guess vim-slime can be used to send region to repl :-D
who payed you?
tailgate IBM
KinkkoPekkonen nice
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tailgate eclipse plugins themselves are pretty fun to write, but a lot of the related java tech like EMF is overengineered 16:41
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RabidGravy I don't think you need anything special to the perl6 repl from vim, just select a region and then :<selector>!perl6 16:42
of course writing the outpur to a separate buffer is a new problem
KinkkoPekkonen I guess you did not see Tim Baldridge doing this trick with clojure in his talks 16:43
pmurias what's the advantage of a repl over 'perl6 short-file'?
KinkkoPekkonen it's quite nice and comfortable thing
RabidGravy no
pmurias, none really
it just seems to make people happy for some reason
KinkkoPekkonen it's cool trick you have a file and you select region and send it to repl and it executes in terminal next to vim 16:44
if you have tmux than it's nice
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tailgate I find it faster, it lets you quickily iterate when you have an idea 16:44
RabidGravy about three lines of vimrc I'd say
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tailgate especially when you are learnign the language 16:44
I think a short test file makes me context switch in my head 16:45
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RabidGravy you know the fun is over when people start talking about editors 16:46
pmurias having a good Perl6 IDE-like support would be fun
tailgate get big enough and hopefully jetbrains will make a "Perl of great price" 16:47
mst Happy *; # since I've been saying 'happy whatever' everywhere else :D
pmurias tailgate: I want it in my vim not in intelliJ ;) 16:48
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tailgate I think vim-perl6 is pretty good 16:48
mst 72.14.189.113/tmp/feed 72.14.189.113/tmp/feed.1
^^ for feeding a chunk of buffer to a repl 16:49
tailgate I need to push up my snippets though
mst RabidGravy: ^^ maybe or may not be of any use, I can relay comments to the author
notviki 404s
RabidGravy mst++ 16:50
mst notviki: oh? bah
must've been more tmp-orary than I thought
cocks. I shall request a real URL or provide one myself. 16:51
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tailgate \ 17:09
mst RabidGravy: have poked author, will re-link when I have a stable URL 17:10
RabidGravy groovesome 17:11
notviki grusome? 17:12
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pmurias nqp-m: my $bar := 4;my int $foo2 := $bar || 200;say($foo2); 17:16
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«0␤»
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b2gills I wrote an evaluator for a made up language for a Code Golf post codegolf.stackexchange.com/questio...ent-253845 17:21
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pmurias m: my int $foo = 4; my int $bar = 200; say(($foo || $bar)); 17:28
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«1␤»
pmurias ^^ is that correct?
gfldex m: my int $foo = 4; my int $bar = 200; say(so ($foo || $bar)); 17:33
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«True␤»
gfldex m: my int $foo = 4; my int $bar = 200; say(so $foo || $bar);
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«True␤»
gfldex pmurias: that's a bug 17:34
m: say so 4; 17:35
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«True␤»
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notviki RTed rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130404 17:50
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mst RabidGravy: github.com/thrig/scripts/tree/master/misc 17:53
RabidGravy: 'feed' in there
RabidGravy mst, nice one, but it appears to want Tcl, What is this 1995? ;-) 17:55
presumably for expect 17:56
mst RabidGravy: nah, it's straight up Tcl 17:57
RabidGravy I have a USB disco light here and frankly It's all gone a bit 1987
corr so it is 17:58
proper old skool stylee
mst I kinda like Tcl, it's like bash bitten by a radioactive lisp
also they shipped an OO system with a MOP in core before we did ;) 17:59
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vendethiel SmokeMachine: had you seen github.com/vendethiel/Sixcheck when you wrote Test::Fuzz? 18:03
SmokeMachine vendethiel: no... opening... 18:05
vendethiel I... definitely need to write a README... 18:06
I think the test file should tell you what it does in the meantime
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notviki test file for docs.... so pre-Christmas-Perl-6-y :) 18:09
vendethiel yup
I need to get it done, but I got stuck on some stuff while I was writing it. 18:11
SmokeMachine: I also wrote an article pretty much on that topic last year: perl6advent.wordpress.com/2015/12/19/ 18:12
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samcv no readme :( 18:17
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vendethiel we did establish that :P 18:18
notviki But it doesn't hurt to make you feel extra bad about it ;) 18:19
vendethiel it does, it's just noise :) 18:20
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tailgate I want to capture from a sentence (foo|bar \d+) - how do I express foo OR bar followed by \d+ ? 18:29
vendethiel do you want to capture that OR?
tailgate I'm using (foo|bar \s \d+) but it's not quite right
there's no OR in the sentence, 18:30
notviki tailgate: because that's "foo" or "bar followed by stuff"
vendethiel no, indeed. here, you have either foo, either bar and space and a number
you want to group around that OR as well
tailgate ((foo|bar) \s \d+) 18:31
notviki Use []
vendethiel you can do that, but you're gonna capture foo|bar again.
You can use [] in the inner group to not capture them instead.
moritz: perlgeek.de is down? 18:32
tailgate thanks
vendethiel uh, it seems searching for "run" in docs.perl6 gives out the whole website... mmh. 18:33
notviki vendethiel: what do you mean? 18:41
Looks fine to me: i.imgur.com/NYkk1ma.png
vendethiel seems a bit too much when there's a perfect match :-). 18:42
(well volunteered!)
notviki I think there's a ticket for that
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culb Merry Christmas. 19:00
notviki Happy Festivus! 19:05
Hanukkah Sameach!
19:09 ufobat joined
RabidGravy ACIEEEED! 19:09
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rightfold Leuke kerst 19:14
mr_ron m: use Test; is -2**2 . abs.Str.ord, "4".ord, "on right side . is tighter than methodcall"; # what are they testing here ? which . is tighter than which ? github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master...ence.t#L48 19:16
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«ok 1 - on right side . is tighter than methodcall␤»
rightfold vendethiel: lol "venndethiel"
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vendethiel rightfold: vendethiel was already taken! and since "venn" means friend it sounded good 19:18
moritz vendethiel: looking into it 19:21
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rightfold vendethiel: someone did another post on quickcheck btw recently 19:35
vendethiel rightfold: check out the log from ~7pm
rightfold oh XD
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rightfold SmokeMachine: have you considered multi sub instead of augment for generate-samples? 19:39
SmokeMachine rightfold: that's a good idea! 19:40
I'll change it! 19:41
rightfold: are you reading the master branch? The next version is de role branch... 19:42
rightfold yeah I was 19:43
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SmokeMachine rightfold: I think the branch role is a better code... 19:44
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Xliff What's the best way to do a system level rakudobrew? 20:09
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mst Xliff: stick it in /usr/local/rakudobrew and then symlink the stuff you want into /usr/local/bin maybe? 20:11
geekosaur would likely avoid rakudobrew for maintaining a system installation 20:12
it's better for hacking around than distribution
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mst yes, I'd much prefer to build a straight rakudo release in /usr/local/ but 20:12
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Xliff I'm using /opt/rakudo 20:16
Thus everything can be found in /opt/rakudo/bin 20:17
mst also works
Xliff And this is an EC2 box that has noone else on it.
Then I'm going to try to write a sample Bailador app for something. :/
notviki +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 20:21
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Xliff Wow! EC2 just throttled at stage parse. 20:27
It usually never takes longer than a minute. :/ 20:28
notviki Xliff: rakudo's stage parse?
Xliff Yup
notviki weird. I too noticed a 15-20 second increase in its time :/
Xliff This is more like minutes.
notviki in like the last 2 days
Xliff Which it will say if it ever completes. 20:29
I don't know why it wouldn't... but that's the whole reason for this experiment.
"Is EC2 a viable rakudo install base?"
I would have expected this image to blow through the rakudo install process.
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Xliff Aaannnd... that would be because this EC2 instance is way underspec'd. 20:40
< 1G of mem
MoarVM finally panicked at stage parse.
I will have to relook into this, later. :/ 20:41
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notviki use moar swap 20:41
you need like 2-2.5GB of RAM for install
Or 1.8GB I think. 20:42
notviki tries to measure
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notviki 163.28user 2.27system 2:46.06elapsed 99%CPU (0avgtext+0avgdata 1381080maxresident)k 20:45
8inputs+77448outputs (0major+956435minor)pagefaults 0swaps
That's for make install after making source change
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dalek rl6-most-wanted: 209e601 | (Tom Browder)++ | most-wanted/modules.md:
add USNO API module
 20:49
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jkaye Another question about type captures/generics. Does anyone know why this constructor would fail to set $!formatter within the object isntace? `my $logger = DefaultLogger[LogEntry].new(:formatter(DefaultFormatter.new()));` If I manually set $logger.formatter to the same DefaultFormatter.new() object after constructing $logger, everything works as expected 20:56
notviki jkaye: because $!formatter is a private attribute 20:57
jkaye Sorry, minor typo. The declaration for the formatter is `has Formatter[LogEntryType] $.formatter is rw;`
(I do not actually want this to be rw eventually, just to test things out for now) 20:58
notviki Does it work if you remove Formatter[LogEntryType]?
jkaye Let me give it a shot
notviki do you use submethod BUILD or your own method new by any chance?
jkaye I have not overridden any of the defaults, just added a method or two 20:59
Different error but the same gist: No such method 'format' for invocant of type 'Any'
Leading me to believe it's not getting set somehow
notviki ummm.... 21:00
Can you show us full code we can run?
There's no 'format' in what you've shown so far.
jkaye Was just going to get that for you: pastebin.com/yYe9KAk0
That's the full code I'm trying to work with currently
notviki I get no errors when I run it... 21:01
jkaye I'm try to play around with types; I'd like to be able to specify as much as possible ideally
The errors are at run time
my $logger = getLogger('anything'); 21:02
moritz note that Perl 6 is not Haskell
jkaye my $entry = LogEntry(message => 'hello');
$logger.info($entry);
moritz you should try to play to Perl's strenths, not to overexert it
jkaye moritz: Surely, but this would not seem like overexertion to me.. This is pretty basic stuff 21:03
rightfold So complex
notviki jkaye: so how do I repro the error? 21:04
moritz jkaye: I haven't followed your examples closely, but my impression from yesterday was that you try to drive (parametric) type constraints pretty far
jkaye moritz: The full code I've been working with for my Perl6 career so far is that pastebin. I'm really just exploring at the moment. But I would love for it to be a strictly better Python, which it seems like it could be 21:05
notviki: One second, I'll add my commands to the paste
mspo so is perl 7 being released today or what? 21:06
notviki mspo: it was already
mspo: rakudo.org/downloads/star/
mspo 2016-11-27 17:52 :) 21:07
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jkaye Sorry about that, here you go: pastebin.com/5dj8Hzwu 21:13
tbrowder Merry Christmas, #perl6 21:16
i'm looking for advice on module categories (names)
geekosaur isn't that one of the two hardest problems in CS? >.> 21:17
tbrowder i need a tree class and have made one using the p6 tree traversal TreeNode on rosettacode.org as a starting point. 21:18
in 21:19
i am considering making a public module of one or the others 21:20
other and seek advice on naming for the ecosystem. the category seems to be data structures, trees or graphs, types of such 21:21
so a name something like Data::BinaryTree or??? 21:22
jkaye notviki: About to have to head out for some Christmas stuff. I'll probably be back on tomorrow to try to get that figured out. Thanks for your help so far 21:26
moritz tbrowder: sounds good 21:27
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gfldex jkaye: I'm golfing your example right now. 21:27
jkaye gfldex: Awesome 21:28
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gfldex jkaye: found your mistake, can you /query gfldex with an email-address? 21:30
notviki jkaye: unrelated to your issue: when $_ { $_.new(); } <-- that's that supposed to do? It's always true
gfldex: why not share it? 21:31
So we all know and learn.
samcv eek ok so looks like mass-chars.t doesn't test what we're trying to test at_all
gfldex he may be gone already
jkaye notviki: Not always, ie. if $_ is Any (missing key)
notviki m: say Any ~~ Any
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«True␤»
notviki jkaye: still true
when smartmatches
jkaye it coerces to Bool
In given
notviki m: given Any { when $_ { say "test" } }
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«test␤»
samcv test needs to be removed, because it generates its own "concept" of how many characters something is. based only on unicode nonstarters, not based on all the other rules… should delete that test and just use the GraphemeBreakTest.t i added recently
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jkaye If I pass in something with a missing key it does die 21:32
Ogg
samcv which actually tests against actual unicode things, not just starters/non-starters (not checking other properties)
jkaye Odd
notviki m: given False { when $_ { say "test" } }
camelia ( no output )
samcv notviki, if i remove a test from roast when it's in spectest rakudo it will fail yes :P
notviki samcv: no, it's just issue a warning that a file is missing
samcv ah ok
notviki m: say False ~~ False 21:33
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Smartmatch against False always fails; if you mean to test the topic for truthiness, use :!so or *.not or !* instead␤ at <tmp>:1␤ ------> 3say False ~~ 7⏏5False␤False␤»
samcv yeah so the 4 tests we're failing (todo'd) in that file, we're not really failing. but
notviki jkaye: OK, I was wrong, not always. But it's a weird test. If you're checking a bool value use :so or :not
samcv generating the concept of graphemes from the file it has as its source is not a good idea
jkaye notviki: Will make the change, thanks for the info
notviki gfldex: so what's the issue with jkaye's code? 21:34
jkaye Heading out, thanks for the help everyone. Looking forward to hearing from you gfldex
Bye for now
21:34 jkaye left
AlexDaniel \o 21:34
o/
notviki | 21:35
λ
samcv: why do you ask? I see mass-chars.t is in 6.c-errata. We can't change tests willy-nilly 21:36
samcv well we can leave it in 6.c-errata
that is fine 21:37
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samcv i mean the test is fine in that revision 21:37
but updates to unicode have made it so the script which generated that test are not accurate and probably never will be
notviki ok
samcv because the file it generates it from does not map codepoints to graphemes 1->1 21:38
so it was fine since unicode didn't include any joining characters in the older tests
but now we fail some of them because the tests contains them, so it was never really a dependable thing anyway
notviki gfldex-- # saying you found an issue the channel was trying to solve but never telling the rest of the channel what the issue was
gfldex m: role R1 {}; role R2[::T]{ method m(T $t){ say $t.WHAT } }; class C does R1 { has R2[R1] $.r2 = R2[R1].new; method cm { $.r2.m(self) } }; C.new.cm
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(C)␤»
samcv notviki, is that fine to remove then? just from master that is 21:39
gfldex notviki: i'm not done yet. There is a bug in there too.
notviki OK
samcv since i already wrote a proper test which tests the same thing
tailgate anyone else here doing advent of code? I like playing with perl6 but I can't say my solutions are very elegant or perlish
samcv advent of code? 21:40
gfldex m: role R {}; say R.defined;
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«False␤»
tailgate adventofcode.com
much like our advent calendar, a problem a day
21:41 jkaye joined
notviki samcv: you're saying we're failing 6.c-errata tests now? :/ 21:41
samcv no
notviki OK 21:42
samcv 6.c-errata is fine
notviki says "I don't know" and goes to play video games :)
samcv :)
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gfldex notviki: he is never calling registerLogger, but %logger-registry got a type constraint. So when pulling a value out of that Hash it autovivifies to some type object what is then used in getLogger. 21:58
(i think) 21:59
actually he is adding one value to that Hash but that is not a proper class instance. 22:02
%logger-registry{LogEntry} = DefaultLogger[LogEntry].new(:formatter(DefaultFormatter.new())); 22:03
DefaultLogger is a role and the .new should explode but doesn't because of all those type captures (and there is a bug in there somewhere) 22:04
rightfold My favorite logger interface is Callable. You can combine loggers with ;, add filters with if, and add transformations with function composition :) 22:05
gfldex m: role R1 {}; role R2[R1 ::T1] {}; R2[R1].new 22:11
camelia ( no output )
gfldex there we go
m: role R1 {}; role R2[R1 ::T1] {}; say R2[R1].new
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«R2[R1].new␤»
gfldex m: role R1 {}; role R2[R1 ::T1] {}; say R2[R1].new.^mro 22:12
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«((R2[R1]) (Any) (Mu))␤»
gfldex i'm not sure that makes sense 22:13
dalek rl6-most-wanted: 9476433 | (Tom Browder)++ | most-wanted/modules.md:
want a binanary tree
22:14 bjz left 22:16 wamba left
geekosaur bananary tree? 22:17
notviki :) 22:18
22:19 mr_ron left
dalek rl6-most-wanted: b7d06e7 | (Tom Browder)++ | most-wanted/modules.md:
need n-ary tree
 22:22
gfldex notviki: I believe jkaye get hit by #RT127256
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=127256
tbrowder s/binanary/binary/ stupid github editor can't read my mind 22:23
timotimo what's your nana got to do with it 22:24
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SmokeMachine Any plan to run rakudo on iOS? 22:51
AlexDaniel :o
22:52 pierre_ joined
SmokeMachine Something like this: itunes.apple.com/us/app/pythonista...79881?mt=8 22:53
rightfold you won't get JIT though 22:55
SmokeMachine If it runs... 22:56
22:57 pierre_ left
SmokeMachine Do you think is it possible? 22:57
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rightfold don't see why not 23:02
if it works on ARM
SmokeMachine I just should Cross compile and should that work? 23:03
23:04 ufobat left
RabidGravy toodles 23:07
23:12 RabidGravy left
rightfold m: (^27).map({($ //= "a.txt")++}).perl.say 23:13
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«("a.txt", "b.txt", "c.txt", "d.txt", "e.txt", "f.txt", "g.txt", "h.txt", "i.txt", "j.txt", "k.txt", "l.txt", "m.txt", "n.txt", "o.txt", "p.txt", "q.txt", "r.txt", "s.txt", "t.txt", "u.txt", "v.txt", "w.txt", "x.txt", "y.txt", "z.txt", "aa.txt").Seq␤»
rightfold m: ("a.txt" .. "aa.txt").List.perl.say
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«("a.txt",)␤»
rightfold is this expected?
23:13 FROGGS left
AlexDaniel m: say ‘a.txt’.succ 23:13
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«b.txt␤»
geekosaur m: ("a.txt" ... "aa.txt").List.perl.say 23:14
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«("a.txt",)␤»
gfldex rightfold: yes
AlexDaniel m: say ("a.txt" .. "aa.txt")[^10]
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(a.txt Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil)␤»
gfldex say "file-001.txt".succ
m: say "file-001.txt".succ
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«file-002.txt␤»
gfldex m: say "file-001a.txt".succ
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«file-001b.txt␤»
rightfold gfldex: it seems strange that .. behaves differently from repeated .succ 23:15
gfldex a range is not a list of values 23:16
converting it to a list may or may not make sense, depending on the range
AlexDaniel so how does the range determine the next value?
or values in between 23:17
gfldex heuristic
if you want a proper list you need to take care about the start and end points
AlexDaniel but… 23:18
gfldex the docs could be better tho
notviki AlexDaniel: in this case, using sequence op
For single-letter Str, it increments ord values 23:19
AlexDaniel notviki: what sequence op?
notviki …
AlexDaniel m: say ("a.txt" .. "aa.txt")[^10]
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(a.txt Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil)␤»
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AlexDaniel m: say ("a.txt" ... "aa.txt")[^10] 23:19
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(a.txt Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil)␤»
notviki For the rest, it uses .succ, with a fast-path for integer ranges 23:20
mst m: say "z.txt".succ
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«aa.txt␤»
mst glares
timotimo is that not to your liking? 23:21
AlexDaniel notviki: how does .. and … work in this case? I don't get it at all!!
mst say ("a.txt", *.succ, ... "aa.txt")[^10]
gfldex m: say ('a.txt', *.succ ... 'aa.txt')[20..30]
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(u.txt v.txt w.txt x.txt y.txt z.txt aa.txt Nil Nil Nil Nil)␤»
mst oh, good, I almost got it right
timotimo AlexDaniel: it probably fails to cmp 'a.txt' to 'aa.txt' correctly?
notviki AlexDaniel: .. works same as … in this case 23:22
AlexDaniel: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...ge.pm#L299
AlexDaniel timotimo: I guess so, but people here are claiming that everything is ok?
timotimo m: say ("a.txt" .. "z.txt")[^10]
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(a.txt b.txt c.txt d.txt e.txt f.txt g.txt h.txt i.txt j.txt)␤»
notviki Is anyone claiming that something's not OK?
timotimo m: say "a.txt" leg "aa.txt" 23:23
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«Less␤»
timotimo but that should make it use .succ
AlexDaniel notviki: yes?
notviki AlexDaniel: so what is it?
mst notviki: seems like '..' is being insufficiently smart, but only in odd cases 23:24
AlexDaniel m: say ("x.txt" .. *)[^10]
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(x.txt y.txt z.txt aa.txt ab.txt ac.txt ad.txt ae.txt af.txt ag.txt)␤»
23:24 pyrimidine left, pyrimidine joined
AlexDaniel m: say ("x.txt" .. "ac.txt")[^10] 23:24
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil)␤»
geekosaur hasn't this been discussed before? it's a bad interaction between a couple of DWIMs iirc
AlexDaniel notviki: ↑ this does not make any sense
notviki AlexDaniel: the first uses .succ, the second goes to the sequence.
geekosaur and no good way to resolve it 23:25
notviki AlexDaniel: it makes perfect sense
AlexDaniel :o
notviki m: say 42
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«42␤»
notviki m: say "foo"
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«foo␤»
AlexDaniel ok, so far so good
notviki AlexDaniel: ↑ this does not make any sense
AlexDaniel notviki: it does, you printed 42 and then you printed foo 23:26
notviki: but in the examples above, I asked for 10 elements from "x.txt" to whatever it gets
and it gave me values including ac.txt
now I said OK, give me values from "x.txt" to "ac.txt", I know you can do it! 23:27
notviki Yes, that mode uses .succ
AlexDaniel and it's like “NO!”
notviki What does "to" mean?
dalek c: 200060b | gfldex++ | doc/Type/Range.pod6:
link to infix:<...>
c: a8ba75c | gfldex++ | doc/Type/Range.pod6:
hint that ... is better for complex cases
synopsebot6 Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Range
AlexDaniel I don't care as long as it is consistent
mst m: say ("x.txt" .. * .. "ac.txt")[^10] 23:28
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Operators '..' and '..' are non-associative and require parentheses␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say ("x.txt" .. *7⏏5 .. "ac.txt")[^10]␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤»
mst ah, screw you, hippy
AlexDaniel m: say ("x.txt" .. "zzzzzzzzzzzz")[^10]
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(x.txt y.txt z.txt aa.txt ab.txt ac.txt ad.txt ae.txt af.txt ag.txt)␤»
mst ?! 23:29
notviki: from an outside POV, this is now Completely Bizarre even if it does seem to make sense to you.
notviki Well, stop abusing Range op then.
gfldex the range operator doesn't do the magic file name succ stuff
AlexDaniel what does it do then? 23:30
m: say ("x.txt" .. "｢｣=‹=")[^10]
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(x.txt x.txs x.txr x.txq x.txp x.txo x.txn x.txm x.txl x.txk)␤»
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AlexDaniel does some other magic? 23:31
notviki m: say "x.txt" cmp "aa.txt" 23:32
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«More␤»
gfldex m: say "x.txt".ord
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«120␤»
lizmat fwiw, I've always found that behaviour of .succ surprising, but it is definitely according to speculation, afaik
AlexDaniel I don't think I have any problem with .succ 23:33
it does succ, but I can accept that
my problem is with .. and … 23:34
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notviki And what's the problem? 23:34
gfldex m: use nqp; say nqp::ord("x.txt");
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«120␤»
notviki PageUps
geekosaur does wonder if magic autoincrement behavior perhaps belongs elsewhere, since it interacts in such fun ways with lexical ordering and such
(like, a role mixin) 23:35
(which is opt-*in*)
notviki geekosaur: and what'd you get by default?
geekosaur I'm not sure you should get anything aside from an attempt to coerce to numeric 23:36
notviki could live with that 23:37
geekosaur an advantage of pushing it into the role is you can provide alternatives, for people who want e.g. autoincrement ons arbitrary strings vs. autoincrement on things that look like filename.ext (not to mention those cases where you have to work with a program with an odd notion of ".ext")
23:38 lukaramu left
notviki Well, we have that fine control this form now: 23:38
mst notviki: dude, when something looks like it should work and doesn't, shouting "stop abusing" doesn't actually help, unless you're auditioning for sri's understudy :P
notviki m: say eager "a.txt", *.succ … "aa.txt"
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(a.txt b.txt c.txt d.txt e.txt f.txt g.txt h.txt i.txt j.txt k.txt l.txt m.txt n.txt o.txt p.txt q.txt r.txt s.txt t.txt u.txt v.txt w.txt x.txt y.txt z.txt aa.txt)␤»
notviki mst: OK :)
mst: "a.txt" cmp's more than "aa.txt" so it generates a list with just "a.txt" in it and thinks it's done 23:39
I mean "z.txt"
or "x.txt"
s: infix:<cmp>, \("x.txt", "aa.txt")
SourceBaby notviki, Something's wrong: ␤ERR: ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling -e␤Calling infix:<cmp>() will never work with proto signature (Mu, Mu)␤at -e:6␤------> put sourcery( ⏏infix:<cmp>, \("x.txt", "aa.txt") )[1];␤
notviki s: &infix:<cmp>, \("x.txt", "aa.txt") 23:40
SourceBaby notviki, Sauce is at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/1374...r.pm#L2696
AlexDaniel and zzzzzz is more than a.txt so it will keep trying even though it will never reach it
whan about "｢｣=<=" though? 23:41
notviki
.oO( make Range fallback on .succ instead of sequence )
23:41 grondilu joined
notviki AlexDaniel: x.txt is less, so it keeps generating it 23:41
mst notviki: yeah, I can sorrrt of see it, but it seems like while that's completely sane for numbers, it's a bit weird for strings
AlexDaniel m: say ("x.txt" .. "｢____")[^10]
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(x.txt x.txs x.txr x.txq x.txp x.txo x.txn x.txm x.txl x.txk)␤»
AlexDaniel notviki: yes, but why does it do it this way? 23:42
mst because it's christmas, so even the bots are insisting on The Final Countdown ?
notviki mst: there's more weirdness in it: some points produce repeating infinite sequences, because a .succ makes a char that gets normalized to a char lower in the range, and it keeps .succing in that loop
gfldex because ranges are performance critical, so we don't have tons if sanity checks in its constructor 23:43
mst part of me wonders if it'd be better to have this universally broken and require explicit use of .succ
that would be more surprising up front but I'd expect the surprise to pass quicker 23:44
gfldex it does use .succ under the hood
mst ...
notviki gfldex: the above gets forwarded to ...
AlexDaniel :-/
mst gfldex: yes. that was my point. re-read.
gfldex i c
notviki AlexDaniel: I don't know. It's a 264-line function and I'm wasted :}
AlexDaniel: a guess would be it tries to by smart about templating 23:45
mst basically, I'm wondering if 'half-DWIM-half-weird' as we have now is inferior to 'quarter-DWIM-reliably-fails-otherwise'
23:45 rindolf left
notviki m: say eager "aaXXXbbcc" … "aaYYYbbcc" 23:46
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(aaXXXbbcc aaXXYbbcc aaXYXbbcc aaXYYbbcc aaYXXbbcc aaYXYbbcc aaYYXbbcc aaYYYbbcc)␤»
notviki m: "aaXXXbbcc".succ.say
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«aaXXXbbcd␤»
mst ok, that's even crazier
notviki So it increases parts that are the same only, and in m: say ("x.txt" .. "｢____")[^10] there are no same parts, so it icreases them by .succ 23:47
that are different only I mean
m: say "XXXmstYYY" … "XXXtestYYY" 23:48
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(XXXmstYYY XXXmstYYZ XXXmstYZA XXXmstYZB XXXmstYZC XXXmstYZD XXXmstYZE XXXmstYZF XXXmstYZG XXXmstYZH XXXmstYZI XXXmstYZJ XXXmstYZK XXXmstYZL XXXmstYZM XXXmstYZN XXXmstYZO XXXmstYZP XXXmstYZQ XXXmstYZR XXXmstYZS XXXmstYZT XXXmstYZU XXXmstYZV XXXmstYZW XXXms…»
notviki 0.o
m: say "XXXmstYYYY" … "XXXtestYYY"
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(XXXmstYYYY XXXmstZYYY XXXmst[YYY XXXmst\YYY XXXmst]YYY XXXmst^YYY XXXmst_YYY XXXmst`YYY XXXmstaYYY XXXmstbYYY XXXmstcYYY XXXmstdYYY XXXmsteYYY XXXmstfYYY XXXmstgYYY XXXmsthYYY XXXmstiYYY XXXmstjYYY XXXmstkYYY XXXmstlYYY XXXmstmYYY XXXmstnYYY XXXmstoYYY XX…»
notviki coughs
So yeah, as you can see it all makes perfect sense!
^_^
AlexDaniel what the fucking fuck 23:49
notviki I forget, what was the first example where you there wasn't consistency
aye
m: m: say eager "x.txt" … "ac.txt" 23:50
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«(x.txt w.txt v.txt u.txt t.txt s.txt r.txt q.txt p.txt o.txt n.txt m.txt l.txt k.txt j.txt i.txt h.txt g.txt f.txt e.txt d.txt c.txt b.txt)␤»
notviki m: m: say eager "x.txt" .. "ac.txt"
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«()␤»
notviki Well, I was wrong.
AlexDaniel well, my problem with it was that it was not generating the values when it should have… now that I look at it, perhaps it should refrain from generating anything in all possible cases…
notviki Ah, I missed "$max before $!min in code
m: say "x.txt" before "ac.txt" 23:51
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«False␤»
notviki right
So it short-curcuits and returns empty
m: say "x.txt" cmp "ac.txt"
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«More␤»
notviki :S
m: say "a.txt" cmp "aa.txt" 23:52
camelia rakudo-moar 1374fc: OUTPUT«Less␤»
notviki Well, I conceed. This doesn't make any sense. 23:53
mst *concede
(sorry)
rightfold
.oO(My favorite programming languages of the month all start with a P)
AlexDaniel well, that's probably a Christmas miracle
we agree on something!
notviki :)
AlexDaniel notviki: I guess we need a ticket for this? 23:57
notviki Well, we were blindling guessing behaviour by mashing on the keyboard with one semi-conscious person reading parts of code.
Maybe there are few sane rules that can explain all that.
mst ("a.txt", *.ballmer ... "aa.txt") 23:58
notviki doesn't drink anymore
^_^
AlexDaniel: there was a ticket about this area. What happened to it? 23:59
It was you and me talking.
And I was saying everything is fine because templates...
AlexDaniel are you saying that we already had this conversation before?

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