»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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timotimo i'll go to bed now; hopefully going to bed a bit earlier will result in better sleep and better getting-out-of-bed 00:33
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skids m: my %h is default(slip()); [%h{2,}].perl.say 02:39
camelia []
skids m: my %h is default(slip()); [%h{2}].perl.say
camelia [Empty,]
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skids m: [slip()].perl.say 02:40
camelia []
skids hmm... was there a reason for nonslice indexing to be protective? 02:43
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gfldex m: my %h is default(|()); [%h{2}].perl.say 02:45
camelia [slip(),]
skids m: my %h is default(slip()); (%h{2},).perl.say
camelia ()
skids maybe some interaction with array element itemization... 02:46
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SmokeMachine m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> $p {state %a; %a{$p.key} += $p.value}; 03:01
camelia Too many positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 2
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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skids reduce func needs parms for the new value and the accumulator. 03:04
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skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> $p, $ {state %a; %a{$p.key} += $p.value}; 03:04
camelia No such method 'key' for invocant of type 'Int'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
SmokeMachine m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> %reduced, Pair $p {%reduced{$p.key} += $p.value; %reduced}
camelia Cannot assign to an immutable value
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: <-> %reduced, Pair $p {%reduced{$p.key} += $p.value; %reduced} 03:05
camelia Cannot assign to an immutable value
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
SmokeMachine skids: is the accumulator the first or the last one?
skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> %reduced is rw, Pair $p {%reduced{$p.key} += $p.value; %reduced}
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
For parameter '%reduced', '%' sigil containers don't need 'is rw' to be writable
Can only use 'is rw' on a scalar ('$' sigil) parameter, not '%reduced'
at <tmp>:1
skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> $b, $a { say "$a $b"; $a + $b }; 03:06
camelia a 2 a 1
Cannot resolve caller Numeric(Pair: ); none of these signatures match:
(Mu:U \v: *%_)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> $b, $a { say "$a $b"; $a.key + $b };
camelia a 2 a 1
Cannot resolve caller Numeric(Pair: ); none of these signatures match:
(Mu:U \v: *%_)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> $b, $a { say "$a $b"; $a + $b.value }; 03:07
camelia a 2 a 1
Cannot resolve caller Numeric(Pair: ); none of these signatures match:
(Mu:U \v: *%_)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
skids hrm.
m: my @a = 1,2,3; say @a.reduce: -> $a, $b { say "$a $b"; $a + $b }; 03:08
camelia 1 2
3 3
6
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skids m: my @a = 1,2,3,4; say @a.reduce: -> $a, $b { say "$a $b"; $a + $b }; 03:09
camelia 1 2
3 3
6 4
10
skids The first then.
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SmokeMachine m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say @a.reduce: -> $d, Pair $p {my BagHash $data; if $d ~~ Pair {$data{$d.key} = $d.value} else {$data = $d}; $data{$p.key} += $p.value; $data} 03:10
camelia BagHash.new(a(3), c(3))
SmokeMachine there is no way to set the initial value of the accumulator on a reduce? 03:11
like: @a.reduce: :initial(BagHash), -> BagHash $acc, Pair $p {$acc{$p.key} += $p.value} 03:13
skids Add it at the front of the list? 03:14
SmokeMachine m: (BagHash, |@a).reduce: -> BagHash $acc, Pair $p {$acc{$p.key} += $p.value}
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '@a' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3(BagHash, |7⏏5@a).reduce: -> BagHash $acc, Pair $p {$a		 03:15
SmokeMachine m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say (BagHash, |@a).reduce: -> BagHash $acc, Pair $p {$acc{$p.key} += $p.value}
camelia Cannot modify an immutable BagHash
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
skids .new.
SmokeMachine m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say (BagHash, |@a).reduce: -> BagHash $acc is rw, Pair $p {$acc{$p.key} += $p.value}
camelia Parameter '$acc' expected a writable container, but got BagHash value
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
SmokeMachine m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say (BagHash.new, |@a).reduce: -> BagHash $acc is rw, Pair $p {$acc{$p.key} += $p.value} 03:16
camelia Parameter '$acc' expected a writable container, but got BagHash value
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say ($ = BagHash.new, |@a).reduce: -> BagHash $acc is rw, Pair $p {$acc{$p.key} += $p.value}
camelia Type check failed in binding to parameter '$acc'; expected BagHash but got Int (1)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say ($ = BagHash.new, |@a).reduce: -> BagHash $acc is rw, Pair $p {$acc{$p.key} += $p.value; $acc;} 03:17
camelia BagHash.new(a(3), c(3))
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SmokeMachine m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say (Bag.new, |@a).reduce: -> Bag $acc, Pair $p {$acc ⊎ $p.key xx $p.value} 03:21
camelia bag(a(3), c(3))
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skids xx probably not the most efficient way to go about that. 03:22
SmokeMachine skids: worse than $acc ⊎ $p.key for ^$p.value ? 03:23
skids m: my @a = a => 1, a => 2, c => 3; say (Bag.new, |@a).reduce: -> Bag $acc, Pair $p {$acc ⊎ $p} 03:28
camelia bag(a(3), c(3))
SmokeMachine :) 03:29
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ugexe timotimo: zef reporter branch + `zef install Net::HTTP` + ZEF_REPORTER_P6C=1 enables test reporting and the reports show up on testers.p6c.org now 04:27
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ugexe I havent merged it into master yet because I have to multiplex output from TAP.pm6 somehow. For reporting to work it doesn't show any test output until the tests are all finished. 04:28
testers.p6c.org/reports/145800.html
fwiw I think reporting quit working for panda (which uses a raw socket) around 2-28, so maybe some newline change? 04:30
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ugexe if you can figure it out let me know... i'd like to remove the Net::HTTP dependency 04:31
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samcv well my install of every module. it hung somewhere. not sure why 06:01
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samcv at testing NCurses module 06:01
moritz samcv: putting stuff on hack in ~/public_html/ should work 06:03
samcv and then it's accecible where?
moritz hack.p6c.org/~samcv/ 06:04
samcv yay
moritz I can get an SSL cert for that domain if desired
samcv hack.p6c.org/~samcv/install_log.txt gonna have to figure out how to fix hanges 06:05
i'm using `run` atm to run zef commands 06:06
moritz I believe you have to use Proc::Async to work with timeouts
samcv best way is to use proc::async? yeah
moritz my book has an example :-)
samcv i've done it before. i wish it were less work though
moritz too 06:07
time for a high-level module that abstracts this out, I think 06:08
samcv hmm how long to make the timeout 06:13
5 minutes maybe?
idk. what's the max time a module and every single dependency could take?
it should be a leave it alone thing. so i don't want it timing out too early
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moritz 15min maybe 06:58
samcv moritz, ok going for try 2 now. set a timeout at 10 minutes
we'll see how it goes
moritz, why does my utf-8 file show up not in the right encoding? 07:00
moritz Content-Type: text/plain
samcv not sure what the server settings are hack.p6c.org/~samcv/install_log_live.txt this. in firefox and chrome show wrong. though i can manually select Unicode and shows fine
moritz let me try something... 07:01
samcv thanks :)
moritz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 07:02
better.
should work now.
samcv \o/
very yes. much good
moritz AddDefaultCharset utf-8 07:03
was the secret apache sauce
samcv :) thought so 07:05
up to at least 19 failing so far 07:06
also think i found a zef problem with dependencies. though could be the packages to blame 07:09
HTTP::Tiny fails because it can't find HTTP::Tinyish during testing. though it tests HTTP::Tinyish before it 07:10
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samcv hmm gist.github.com/samcv/1030286eb95f...xt-L38-L56 07:11
moritz are those two in separate distributions?
samcv not sure 07:12
moritz looking at modules.perl6.org: yes 07:13
samcv that's what i had guessed
i can install HTTP::Tiny with zef myself. but it could be the long dependency chain messed it up somewhere 07:14
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Geth ecosystem: IanTayler++ created pull request #319:
Added MinG.		 07:28
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moritz what's our policy for ecosystem pull requests with a broken source URL in META6.json? 07:40
wait for a fix? or merge straight away?
eater moritz: doesn't matter 07:43
Geth ecosystem: b8e1972ab9 | (Ian Tayler)++ (committed by Moritz Lenz) | META.list
Added MinG.

MinG is a module for working with Minimalist Grammars: a mildly-context-sensitive formalism first described by Edward Stabler in 1996. MinG::S13 is an implementation of Stabler's 2012/2013 parser for Minimalist Grammars.
eater its fixed now :d
moritz aye 07:45
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moritz just invited a few of the last ecosystem contributors to the perl6 org 07:45
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azawawi Good morning #perl6 07:46
Bug of the day github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/issues/11 :)
cglobal does not work as expected when use-d from another library that uses that cglobal (e.g. NCurses) 07:47
Commenting out the cglobal section fixes the problem github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/b...es.pm6#L30 07:48
should cglobal's generally be called later? 07:49
like github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/b...es.pm6#L40 that is
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nadim morning P6! \o/ 08:52
who is the king of pod? 08:53
I am thinking about porting my module search.cpan.org/~nkh/POD-Tested-0.0.../Tested.pm and wonder if that is not already done in some way. I read Synopsis but found nothig, want to check. 08:54
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gfldex nadim: not as a module, we got a test in the docs tho 08:56
nadim do you mean inlining the test in the pod? 08:58
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gfldex we can extract examples from the docs and compile them, what helps a bit to detect bitrot 08:59
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nadim What tool does that? can Pod be injected as result of code defined in the pod? 09:00
My module is very much about avoiding documentation rot but also as a tool to write cookbooks and design a module with test first 09:01
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gfldex nadim: in that case you might have to patch rakudo itself because ambient nodes are not implemented yet 09:06
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dogbert17_ o/ 09:12
is the document 'Learn Perl 6 in Y minutes' available in our repos? It seems to be hosted on a different server. 09:15
it contains some errors which should be fixed
nadim gfldex: do you feel the functionality should be in rakudo or in a module. I am not sure a tool to write cookbooks that are tested are best in rakudo but you know better I guess. 09:20
gfldex nadim: right now the pod parser (that is part of Rakudo) will skip any non-pod parts. If you need them to do facy stuff with the code and pod nodes, you will either have to implement your own parser (very welcome, we don't got that yet) or fix the planned but never implemented Pod::Block::Ambient in Rakudo. 09:26
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timotimo github.com/adambard/learnxinyminutes-docs - dogbert17_ 09:34
moritz dogbert17_: github.com/adambard/learnxinyminutes-docs/
github.com/adambard/learnxinyminut...l.markdown 09:35
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timotimo m: use nqp; <1 2 3>.map: { when * > 5 { "test {nqp::unbox_i($_ // 0)}" } } 09:42
camelia ( no output )
timotimo m: sub test { use nqp; <1 2 3>.map: { when * > 5 { "test {nqp::unbox_i($_ // 0)}" } } }
camelia ( no output )
timotimo ... ?!
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gfldex lolibloggedtoday: gfldex.wordpress.com/2017/04/19/de...h-fallout/ 09:52
timotimo i'm mildly surprised that try has looser precedence than // does 09:57
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u-ou m: role A { has $.x }; role B does A { }; role C does A { }; role D does B does C { }; 10:06
camelia ( no output )
gfldex .seen retupmoca 10:07
yoleaux I saw retupmoca 8 Jun 2016 21:09Z in #perl6: <retupmoca> m: say ('a'..'d').rotor(2 => -1).perl;
u-ou m: role A { has $.x }; role B does A { }; role C does A { }; class D does B does C { }; 10:08
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Attribute '$!x' conflicts in role composition
at <tmp>:1
u-ou m: role A { has $!x }; role B does A { }; role C does A { }; class D does B does C { }; 10:10
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Attribute '$!x' conflicts in role composition
at <tmp>:1
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timotimo gfldex: i think the code in your blog post is actually slightly wrong 10:18
m: my $result = try "oh lord".&die // "default"; say $result
camelia (Any)
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timotimo well, that's not failure 10:19
m: my $result = try "oh lord".&fail // "default"; say $result
camelia default
timotimo oh, interesting
m: my $result = try "oh lord".&fail.butthismethdoesntexist // "default"; say $result 10:20
camelia (Any)
gfldex timotimo: already fixed
timotimo OK! 10:21
gfldex I noticed because I'm writing a 2nd blog post right nao! 10:22
timotimo that's good bloggage
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gfldex m: sub picky(\c:($,$)) {say &c.arity}; picky(* - *); 10:30
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
c used at line 1
gfldex m: sub picky(\c:($,$)) {say c.arity}; picky(* - *); 10:31
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
c used at line 1
timotimo wouldn't you want |c there?
oh
gfldex m: sub picky(&c:($,$)) {say &c.arity}; picky
camelia Too few positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 0
in sub picky at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo sorry, that's different 10:32
gfldex m: sub picky(&c:($,$)) {say &c.arity}; picky({$^a, $^b})
camelia 2
gfldex m: sub picky(&c:($,$)) {say &c.arity}; picky(* - *)
camelia Constraint type check failed in binding to parameter '&c'; expected anonymous constraint to be met but got WhateverCode ({ ... })
in sub picky at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
gfldex is there a way to say "I want a WhateverCode but it must have 2 params!"?
timotimo well, you can have a where clause for that, but it should have worked with what you had there, i think 10:33
gfldex m: my &c = * - *; &c.arity.say
camelia 2
timotimo yeah
gfldex so the compiler knows
timotimo maybe it's expecting Any, but gets Mu?
moritz m: sub picky(WhateverCode \c where .arity == 2) { c(1, 2) }; say *-*
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '&c' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3ky(WhateverCode \c where .arity == 2) { 7⏏5c(1, 2) }; say *-*
moritz m: sub picky(WhateverCode \c where .arity == 2) { c.(1, 2) }; say *-* 10:34
camelia { ... }
timotimo m: my &c = * - *; &c.signature.perl.say
camelia :(;; $whatevercode_arg_1 is raw, $whatevercode_arg_2 is raw)
gfldex moritz: thx
moritz though in most cases I'd restrict to Callable, not to WhateverCode
so picky(&c where .arity == 2) { } 10:35
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nadim Playing with the profiler, It seems that quite some time is spend as sink at SETTING::src/core/Seq.pm:183, is that usual? 10:46
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jnthn nadim: Inclusive time, or exclusive time? 10:47
But yes, it's very normal if your program has, say, a for loop
gfldex m: sub picky(WhateverCode $c) { $c.(1) }; say (try picky( return * )) // $!.^name
camelia X::ControlFlow::Return
nadim it Data::Dump::Tree, lots of loops, but and that is a gut feeling, it seems that most of the time is spend there 10:48
jnthn Since for @a { body } compiles into @a.map({ body }).sink
nadim ah!
jnthn The .sink being what actually makes the work happen since map is lazy
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nadim ok, good to know 10:48
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gfldex lolibloggedagain! gfldex.wordpress.com/2017/04/19/yo...-you-like/ 11:01
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grondilu m: say grammar { rule TOP { <ident> | <TOP>+ % \+ } }.parse: 'foo+bar' 11:25
camelia Nil
grondilu was hoping that would work
jnthn No, the LTM is terminated by recursion 11:26
So the <ident> ends up winning
grondilu oh yeah
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grondilu wait but then why doesn't it return "foo"? 11:30
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jnthn Because parse anchors at the end of the string 11:35
Presumably .subparse would give back foo
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Geth doc: 555bb55d87 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Any.pod6
Document Any.unique
 12:12
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dogbert17_ moritz: thx for the link, sorry for the late reply 12:15
moritz dogbert17_: no problem 12:16
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Geth doc: af1c4ddc4b | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/List.pod6
Add advice to reword .unique :with using :as when possible

The :with has O(n²/2) complexity and basically slows to a crawl with 2000+ element lists.
my @p = 1..3000; @ = @p.unique: :with(&[eqv]); say now - INIT now; # 25.42728348 my @p = 1..3000; @ = @p.unique: :as(*.Str); say now - INIT now; # 0.0185597 say 25.427/.0186; # 1367.043011		 12:20
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Stamm hello 13:43
i have a small question about hashes
what is the syntax to add an element with a non-string key?
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timotimo you just put it in with %thehash{$object} = "hi" 13:46
but the hash must be an object hash, or else it'll stringify $object for you
docs.perl6.org/type/Hash#index-ent...bject_hash
moritz m: my %h{Any}; my $key = []; %h{$key} = 'foo'; say %h{$key}; say %h{[]}
camelia foo
()
moritz Stamm: ^^ that's a way to work with an object hash 13:47
MasterDuke_ m: my %h{Int}; my $a = "a"; %h{$a}++ 13:48
camelia Type check failed in binding to parameter 'key'; expected Int but got Str ("a")
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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Stamm_ ok, thank you 13:48
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ugexe samcv: the reason HTTP::Server::Tinyish fails is because it does some-test-that-does-run($my-code-with-dependency) with the assumption that all their dependencies are fullfilled by CURI and not one of the other possible CURs 14:02
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isBEKaml OHHAI 14:05
timotimo greetings 14:06
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isBEKaml Were there some changes to moarvm's configure script recently? 14:11
My daily builds don't work anymore -- I'll try to fetch a detailed trace output in a bit 14:12
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timotimo it could very well be that it's choking on libtommath 14:14
i turned it from a folder full of files into a submodule
git really, really, really, really, really, really didn't like that
so just nuke your moar and all should be good
isBEKaml yeah, that's what it looks like.... it failed on a submodule update and silently screamed at me for those existing folders!
timotimo maximum ugh. 14:15
isBEKaml I wiped 3rdparty, let's see if that works
timotimo might be bad. now there's stuff missing in there
isBEKaml *shrug* -- I'll know soon
\o/ 14:16
it works!
timotimo nice
isBEKaml urr, 3rdparty/uthash.c? Not cool, man 14:17
timotimo it'd be cool if we had a piece of code in the configure script that could figure out what's happening with the submodules
and mv the 3rdparty/libtommath folder out of the way
(so that no local changes, if any, get destroyed)
isBEKaml this 3rdparty folder is trucked 14:20
I'm downloading a fresh zip from Github and copying over missing folders 14:21
Okay, it's all good now 14:25
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nicq20 Hello \o 14:29
yoleaux 9 Feb 2017 17:34Z <tony-o> nicq20: you may have to do zef update -
timotimo why not just git reset --hard? taht'll give you all files back, too 14:30
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isBEKaml timotimo: I don't have any local changes. I usually do: 'git clean -xdf' and 'git pull' for taking off on git HEAD 14:32
timotimo you had local changes, you rm -rf'd 3rdparty/ 14:33
3rdparty contains files under gits control
so reset --hard would get them back
isBEKaml Oh, right -- totally forgot about that. Anyway, I've now fully built perl6 14:34
nicq20 Is there a way to get `my $var = 'PLAYING CARD TEN OF DIAMONDS'; say "\c[$var]";` to work? Is interpolation disabled for unicode names?
timotimo we have something for that now 14:35
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ilmari m: my $var = 'PLAYING CARD TEN OF DIAMONDS'; say $var.parse-names 14:36
camelia 🃊
timotimo m: say parse-names('PLAYING CARD TEN OF DIAMONDS')
camelia 🃊
timotimo i don't remember when that name was decided upon?
nicq20 Yeah, I was going to say it seems like an odd choice... 14:37
Oh, well. :)
ilmari Author: Zoffix Znet [email@hidden.address]
Date: 2017-03-02 19:22:23 +0000
Implement Str.parse-names
Naming: the name follows Str.parse-base that parses a string containing numerals in some base; whereas this routine parses a string of character names 14:38
nicq20 Huh, ok.
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timotimo ah 14:41
skids maybe parse-uninames to match Str.uninames? 14:45
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nicq20 skids: That would make more sense to me at least. 14:50
skids wonders what zoffix handle-of-the-day is. 14:51
isBEKaml parse-uninames definitely makes more sense
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TreyHarris Is a Junction::Utils with constructs to construct complex junctions so you can say "two", "three", "n or more", "n or less" a silly idea? I just needed a "2 or more" junction and wondered if it was worth generalizing 14:58
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perlpilot TreyHarris: what's a "2 or more" junction? 15:05
15:05 sufrostico joined
perlpilot TreyHarris: you mean like "any(@foo) but at least 2" ? 15:05
timotimo yeah 15:06
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Zoffix skids: the handle is Zoffix 15:06
skids: what'd you want?
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skids Oh somehow I missed seeing you in the user list. 15:07
The suggestion was that Str.parse-names might be better Str.parse-uninames
Zoffix I wasn't
[Coke] I wouldn't use it, but if it's something you needed, abstracting it out into a module might help someone else, sure.
Zoffix skids: I don't follow this channel, but my bot pinged me because of name mention 15:08
skids ZofBot?
Zoffix Yup
skids ZofBot: .botsnack
ZofBot skids, om nom nom nom
synopsebot6 om nom nom
Zoffix .parse-names has been in two releases already. The name bikeshedding kinda concluded when the PR with it got merged. 15:09
You can join #perl6-dev if you wish to keep current to development discussions.
... such as what to name .parse-names :) 15:10
Zoffix reads back 15:12
TreyHarris timotimo: exactly. like "one(...)", only "two(...)" or "two-or-more(...)" (obviously, parameterized, so actually probably "exactly(2, ...)" or "at-least(2, ...)" or "at-most(2, ...)" ... is that the best signature or is there a cleaner one?
perlpilot TreyHarris: are you *sure* junctions are the right answer? Feels more like sets and counting to me. 15:13
Zoffix "don't remember when that name was decided upon?". I proposed the name on March 2nd EST morning, then in afternoon made a PR. Lizmat merged it later in the day, after a +1 from [Coke]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/1031 15:14
moritz TreyHarris: IMHO junctions are neat, but if they don't do what you want, they aren't worth tweaking
I tend to use junctions only as boolean matchers
perlpilot too
moritz in that context you can typically fall back to a callback instead
Zoffix skids: so yeah, .parse-uninames sounds better if a bit too much typing. But I don't want to change something that's been in a release already. 15:15
TreyHarris moritz: ah, I haven't looked into how to run authothreading manually, but that's why I was using them, because "so at-least-one(...)" was quite useful to me and embarrassingly parallell
Zoffix in 2 releases
15:15 Zoffix left
TreyHarris sorry, "at-least-two" 15:16
"at-least-one" we have, "any"
(er, how to do *threading* manually, I meant, obviously) 15:18
moritz junction don't actually evaluate in parallel yet 15:19
skids ah, well, bummer. Unfortunately I barely have the attention-time to keep current on everything.
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skids s/barely/rarely/ 15:20
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TreyHarris moritz: I know, but I like maintaining the fiction for future-proofing. In this case I'm using junctions of attributes of machines in a datacenter, so it's an obvious case 15:20
moritz TreyHarris: I can't follow that line of reasoning 15:21
but you don't actually have to convince me 15:22
putting stuff into a junction makes it harder to actually use the stuff, unless you only ever use them as boolean matchers 15:23
TreyHarris moritz: if autothreading would likely come to Sets at the same time (or soon after) it came to Junctions, then you've convinced me.
moritz: (you don't understand why I'd want to future-proof so that the code would autothread later on? I know you don't want me to convince you, so I won't continue arguing, I just want to be sure I know what you don't understand so will know what to reconsider my thinking on) 15:25
moritz TreyHarris: you're basically saying you rely on behavior that might change in future, in order to future-proof your code 15:27
TreyHarris moritz: oh, i thought the one point of junctions was this thing--if I can't rely on it, then I should be doing map-so-length checks instead, no? 15:29
because maps can be parallelized easily in most languages.
(sorry, I said I wasn't going to argue. So nm, but I apparently don't get it....) 15:30
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moritz TreyHarris: the point of junctions is to express ideas more idiomatic 15:30
or more direct
TreyHarris right, and map-so-length >= 2 is idiomatically, "at-most 2" 15:31
but yeah, I'll just use sets and lenghts. 15:32
Zoffix Wanted to clarify "bikeshedding kinda concluded when the PR with it got merged". I meant the name was proposed in a PR first; I didn't just commit. It's very easy to change a name for a feature added, but *before it's in a release*. Telling people to go use something and then pulling the carpet from under them is LTA. And on more official level: .parse-name isn't even part of Perl 6 language yet, since it's 15:33
only in the `master` spec that's yet to be reviewed and approved for 6.d. In the future, we'll likely want to improve this process, so there's some grace period or somethign for features that need time to solidify. OTOH, Slangs are not official either, but people are using them :/
15:34 robertle left
Zoffix Telling people to go use something as in a release changelog/docs I mean 15:35
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TreyHarris Zoffix: are you saying that bikeshedding names _before_ that _is_ a good use of time? Because I seems to remember a certain TimToady giving a certain State of the Onion on the importance of naming.... ;-) 15:35
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Zoffix TreyHarris: that question is ambiguous since "bikeshedding" can mean "trying to decide on a name in a group" or "pointlessly wasting time on irrelevant minutae" 15:37
moritz investing time in names that appear in a public API sounds like a good investment, if used productively
skids slinks to a discrete corner of the room and tries to pretend he didn't start this.
TreyHarris skids: lol 15:38
Zoffix :)
perlpilot not to bikeshed, but I probably would have called it unichars(). uninames() is given some chars it gives you names, unichars() is given some names it gives you chars.
moritz skids: I prefer continuous corners over discrete corners :-) 15:39
TreyHarris Zoffix: maybe "speak up if a name seems objectively BAD (i.e., reads as ungrammatical English in the way it's typically used, so will lead to frustrating and repeatedspelling mistakes) or if you have a name you think is so much obviously better, but don't waste time iterating on names?" 15:40
Zoffix skids: you did bring up an issue in the process, I think
15:40 nadim left
Zoffix That public API changes should probably given some X amount of time for dev/community feedback. 15:41
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Zoffix m: "foo.txt" 15:42
camelia WARNINGS for <tmp>:
Useless use of constant string "foo.txt" in sink context (line 1)
skids I am reminded to bother TimToady or anyone else for bikeshedding "insist role" or "insist method" for my noisy roles branch.
Zoffix m: "bar/foo.txt".IO.sibling("meow.txt").say
camelia "bar/meow.txt".IO
Zoffix Like that was added after a brief mention on IRC channel.
skids (gist.github.com/skids/18fa6fb1de77...e82e9fcc2)
Zoffix skids: I liked the old thing that was proposed. Some sort of prefix to method 15:43
forget what it was
skids claim.
Zoffix Ah, yeah :)
skids But that was applied in a different place.
Zoffix Ah
skids I updated the gist since to explain the difference. 15:44
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TreyHarris Zoffix: was there a good objection to "sibling"/obviously better proposal too late? 15:46
Zoffix TreyHarris: there were no objection from the group that saw the proposal on the IRC at the time 15:47
TreyHarris: .sibling was a safe bet tho. It was stolen from Mojolicious's Mojo::File and that core team bikesheds everything to death and isn't shy on changing stuff later on 15:48
TreyHarris Zoffix: you're just saying you feel like there might have been, given more public response time.
Zoffix TreyHarris: right.
TreyHarris better to give room for bikeshedding when it doesn't, in some sense "matter" but in another sense *really* matters than to not and leave people to bikeshed later; since bikeshedding they will do regardless, give them an outlet at the time it's actually easy to accept such as constructive input rather than complaint 15:49
Zoffix Or not even the naming, but the change to make IO::Path read methods eager to avoid accidental handle leak. Seems a sane change, but if you follow up on what's using it, you realize that makes all Perl 6 one liners slow and memory hungry when working with largish files 15:50
(we didn't do that change at the end) 15:51
skids just waiting until someone names something ".family-style" 15:54
TreyHarris Zoffix: indeed. I had a rather hilarious mistake the other day where I temporarily double-bound the same key to XMonad and to Meta, and this resulted, after I tried to visit each of my workspaces, then hit a key, got no response, so tapped enter, my machine froze and then everything went on "normally". the next day I discovered my shells would lock up if I reverse-searched beyond commands a day old. This was 15:55
because I had a single line in histfile whose command consisted only of 234,567,891 copies of the letter 'f'. "fffffffffffff...." (so appropriate that it was 'f', no?) In any case, filtering out the line using Perl 5 took 0.03 sec timed. Perl 6 took about 16 seconds. Every other major high-level language crashed or took so long (minutes) I aborted it. Even _Haskell's_ core-library IO took 35 seconds then
crashed, though switching to the correct Data.IO.Lazy libraries got it down to a single-digit number of seconds w/o crashing.
Zoffix .tell samcv looks likere there's possible bustitude with the docs site and the $COLON stuff. Try looking up '.?' safecall operator; when you visit the page, it's /routine/? 15:56
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to samcv.
15:56 okcomputer joined 15:58 st_elmo joined 15:59 abraxxa left
TreyHarris (actually, looking back, it was 678,912,345 copies, because my histfile was over half a gig) 15:59
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Zoffix "Perl 6 IO TPF Grant: Monthly Report (April, 2017)": blogs.perl.org/users/zoffix_znet/20...-2017.html 16:02
TreyHarris (the filtering function I used, for reference, was perl -ne 'print unless /^.{1000}/'; interestingly, that ran faster than the equivalent using length()) 16:06
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Zoffix .tell [Coke] my April grant report has been published on blogs.perl.org. You can get it in Markdown format at github.com/zoffixznet/IOwesomeness...pr-2017.md 16:09
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to [Coke].
Zoffix \o
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Geth doc: 0fc39a6082 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | type-graph.txt
[io grant] Fix typegraph

IO::Special does IO		 16:26
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okcomputer I just configured perl6 from rakudobrew and from source, each time I receive a warning regarding Linenoise. Should I be concerned about this? 16:51
gfldex okcomputer: it will work fine without linenoise 16:52
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okcomputer gfldex: is there any particular reason, or is it something I'll have to deal with? 16:55
gfldex okcomputer: you need linenoise for a happy REPL. You can enjoy Perl 6 without ever touching it's REPL. 16:56
gfldex hugs camelia
okcomputer gfldex: The REPL was one of the things I was looking forward to, is there a setup guide? 16:58
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gfldex okcomputer: not that I know of 17:00
timotimo i think you really just need to "zef install Linenoise" or "zef install Readline"
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timotimo please be aware that the repl still tends to give some really strange behaviours sometimes 17:01
so if something fails in some mysterious way, make sure to try it in a regular file, too
okcomputer timotimo: it is installed, I get an error: "I ran into a problem while trying to set up Linenoise: Failed to create directory '/' with mode '0o777': Failed to mkdir: 21 17:02
Continuing without tab completions or line editor
timotimo wait what :) 17:03
gfldex sounds like fallout
okcomputer Yeah
timotimo yeah, let's see
i need to rebuild lots of rakudo first 17:04
so it'll take me a while to look into it 17:05
okcomputer timotimo: No problem. If I can help let me know 17:06
timotimo does it give a better error when you pass --ll-exception to perl6?
okcomputer same one 17:07
timotimo hm, how do you get it to spit out a backtrace or something ...
okcomputer you mean OSX or perl6? 17:09
timotimo perl6 17:10
okcomputer ok, I've already run some basic tests, and it's not my terminal or shell or the combinantion of the 2, perl6 actually is trying to change the / dir to 777 according to the console 17:12
timotimo well, that's very wrong :) 17:13
oh great
it start up no-prob on my end 17:14
okcomputer I assumed you guys would have picked up on this already if it was common
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gfldex the IO stuff was rewritten the last few weeks. There is likely more fallout lurking. 17:15
Zoffix okcomputer: what's your perl6 -v ?
okcomputer This is Rakudo version 2017.04-1-g241831e built on MoarVM version 2017.04 17:16
implementing Perl 6.c.
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timotimo okcomputer: are you cool with running gdb? 17:16
Zoffix okcomputer: upgrade. You have a buggy release.
timotimo because it'll let us get a perl6-level backtrace
TimToady blames hackers
Zoffix m: $*PERL.compiler.version.say
camelia v2017.04.2.3.g.6.f.3.de.6641
Zoffix okcomputer: there was a bug with %?RESOURCES and I see Linenoise is using some of 'em. I can't repro the problem on HEAD 17:17
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okcomputer Zoffix: ok, any specific version to try? I've been getting this error for about a week with the same errors on a couple of different versions 17:19
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Zoffix okcomputer: 2017.04.2 should be good 17:19
timotimo gfldex: i have a .gitconfig that upsets meta6-bin 17:20
okcomputer Zoffix and timotimo: Thanks, i'll be back after the compile
gfldex timotimo: please share 17:21
Zoffix okcomputer: hm... A week... I think the %?RESOURCESS breakage was introduced just on April 17th. So it might be something else.
timotimo gist.github.com/timo/0335a8e7620a4...76ff3f091c - gfldex 17:22
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azawawi hi 17:23
timotimo gfldex: maybe it'd be wise to use the "git config" commands to get what you want
okcomputer Zoffix: Yeah, I first built perl6 last thursday
gfldex timotimo: should be easy to fix
Zoffix okcomputer: what OS are you using?
timotimo like "git config -l" will give yuo everything in a probably-simpler-to-parse format 17:24
and with -z you'll get values delimited by nullbytes
Zoffix: that's OSX
okcomputer Zoffix: 10.12.4 to be exact
azawawi what's OSX? :)
Zoffix doesn't have access to OSX :(
I'm not hip enough.... 17:25
azawawi www.macincloud.com ? :)
maybe they have an open source license or something 17:26
Zoffix: also use travis osx :) 17:27
Zoffix azawawi: is that a proper service that lets you run code on OSX or some scam? So far, the "macinclooud" answer I've been getting is Apple forbidding it because they like their laptop sales too much
azawawi Zoffix: you have like 2-3 mac cloud services. And no i havent tried it personally 17:28
gfldex timotimo: the culprit is [url "schema://some.url"]. Fixed locally travis is travising.
azawawi but i researched it earlier while trying to run some osx stuff
Zoffix azawawi: cool. thanks. The $29/month don't sound too bad 17:29
azawawi also www.hostmyapple.com/
Zoffix okcomputer: still having an issue on the updated complier? 17:30
uuuu
Zoffix sees the potential bug spot 17:31
uuuhhh wtf
okcomputer Zoffix it builds slow on my laptop, should finish soon...
Zoffix What's up with this @parts business: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...EPL.pm#L46 17:32
That might be okcomputer's bug
Ah, and mkdir used to return empty list but now fails so that's why it remained hidden so long 17:33
Zoffix boots up the VM to add a fix
azawawi do we have known bugs about nativecall's cglobal usage?
i had to do this workaround for cglobal to work when used from another package that uses NCurses 17:34
it is as of NCurses is cursed :)
as of=as if
github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/b...es.pm6#L30
geekosaur if it's to be global, maybe it should be our 17:36
azawawi tried it 17:38
Zoffix Tho I wonder why I can't repro the issue :/
azawawi but got this weird bug github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/issues/11
timotimo gfldex: i almost thought so. it's a really weird thin to have in a .ini style file 17:39
azawawi geekosaur: github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/c...d8d3e5eL30
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gfldex timotimo: please `zef upgrade Git::Config` 17:41
timotimo sure 17:42
Zoffix timotimo: If that doesn't work, use zef --force install github.com/gfldex/perl6-git-config...master.zip
I noticed zef uses versions that I think it pulls from modules.zef.pm or something and doesn't get new stuff right away 17:43
geekosaur that was more "I can see other similar problems coming in the future"
Zoffix okcomputer: can you try running this: perl6 -e 'mkdir "/"'
'cause for me that doesn't fail. I guess it fails on OSX :/ 17:44
azawawi geekosaur: native api was the first step for now. Next step is OO python-blessings like easy API
okcomputer Zoffix: it crashed my shell/terminal 17:45
geekosaur uh 17:46
Zoffix okcomputer: good. I found the bug that's hitting you. Working on a fix. Gimme 2 mins
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geekosaur azawawi, in any case I think the problem is cglobal returns a Proxy, and if you run the lookup multiple times you may kill the existing Proxy. I don;t *think* there can be cache effects.., 17:49
there might be an argument for cglobal caching the Proxy it produces for a given symbol 17:50
azawawi geekosaur: anyway it crashed when used from another package and hence changed :) 17:53
geekosaur: also for ncurses, some variables are not actually useful until initscr is called (e.g. LINES)
geekosaur "crashed" doesn't tell me much.
azawawi geekosaur: github.com/azawawi/perl6-ncurses/issues/11
geekosaur: Cannot invoke this object (REPR: Null; VMNull) 17:54
geekosaur and yes, you have that limitation. also you will run into trouble you try to use it with threads
azawawi geekosaur: i agree
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geekosaur I worked out what was initialized when at one point, but I think the safest action is to assume nothing is defined until initscr has been called 17:55
azawawi geekosaur: if you change one of them to our xyz is export = cglobal(...) you will get that error for sure 17:56
geekosaur ...except that for anything involved with colors, you must wait for init_color
Zoffix 2 more mins 17:57
geekosaur azawawi, yes, both stdscr and curscr will be NULL until initscr
azawawi start_color you mean?
geekosaur sorry, yes 17:58
also stuff like the slk_ * functions and related variables only work after you init the subsystem
azawawi no worries
geekosaur so yes, expect to have to delay everything
Zoffix uhh.. failures in /repl.t
Zoffix needs more minutes :)
geekosaur this should probably be documented as a NativeCall gotcha, that many libraries' globals will be NULL until the library is properly initialized, this is C-side behavior and NativeCall cannot insulate you from it 18:00
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Zoffix okcomputer: sorry, I fixed the mkdir bug but introduced a new one and having trouble getting the line from where the error is comign from :/ 18:02
azawawi "Time is an illusion", Albert Einstein :)
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okcomputer Zoffix: I rebuilt the VM and perl6 but I'm just now reading your later posts. 18:02
Zoffix
.oO( 99 bugs in the code, 99 bugs.... patch one down, blah blah blah, 109 bugs in the code )
Ah. I need to learn to read ALL of the output :P 18:04
okcomputer Zoffix: Would it be useful if I set up ssh on an unused macbook?
Zoffix Nah, don't worry about it. 18:05
I fixed the stuff. Just compiling + stresstesting (takes ~4 minutes) and then should be good 18:06
okcomputer: this should be the fix: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b4fa6d6792 18:11
okcomputer: rakudobrew build nom; rakudobrew switch moar-nom; rakudobrew rehash
Let me know if that fixes the issue, once the build finishes 18:12
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okcomputer Zoffix: 'nom' is not an available backend, how do i build it? 18:15
RabidGravy BOOM!
Zoffix okcomputer: rakudobrew build moar nom; rakudobrew switch moar-nom; rakudobrew rehash
That should be the right command :)
RabidGravy something like that 18:16
Zoffix just has update-perl6 alias that nukes everythign and builds from scratch
RabidGravy :+1+ 18:17
samcv wakes uup and checks the module build log 18:22
yoleaux 15:56Z <Zoffix> samcv: looks likere there's possible bustitude with the docs site and the $COLON stuff. Try looking up '.?' safecall operator; when you visit the page, it's /routine/?
samcv 2.8MB great
okcomputer Zoffix: no startup error. just need to see if it works
samcv wow... it's still installing modules....
after like 11 hours? 18:23
O.o
or however long it was. in any case it's a very long time
Zoffix buggable: eco
buggable Zoffix, Out of 816 Ecosystem dists, 77 have warnings, 3 have errors, and 672 have no tags in META file. See modules.perl6.org/update.log for details
Zoffix m: say 816/11
camelia 74.181818
samcv oh. it. i think it's asking for my github user name idk why 18:24
Zoffix More than 1 module per minute. Not bad IMO
samcv i will wake up more first
okcomputer Zoffix: installs and functions as expected (at the moment), thanks for your help
Zoffix I know there's some Date module by supernovus that takes ages to test
samcv yes. i know it well
Zoffix okcomputer: \o/ thanks for reporting the bug :)
okcomputer it gave me a reason to come on irc after a long time :) 18:25
Zoffix :)
\o
18:25 Zoffix left
samcv also wtf @the `.?` page 18:25
O.o
samcv goes to make some tea
oh
for some reason zef is asking for my github username. and password really oddly. idk 18:27
o.O gist.github.com/samcv/9e04008e33c6...6332c91586 it's too early for this i think
dunno how this happened.... 18:28
i entered it right. maybe there's some threading going on sinc ei'm using proc::async to have a timeout of 10 minutes on modules?
eeks there's a lot o ffaling modules 18:29
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samcv go here and search for “»» (FAIL” 18:30
:(
18:32 setty1 joined 18:34 kyclark joined
kyclark "$t.lines.grep(/^ '>'/)" will find all lines that start with '>'. How do I invert this to find lines that DO NOT start with ">"? I see I can use "!*.starts-with('>')" but how can it be done with the regex? 18:36
timotimo $t.lines.grep(none(/^ '>'/)) :P 18:37
gfldex samcv: there are modules that got a source-url that starts with git:// and you don't got a github sshkey locally
timotimo or /^ <-[>]> /
samcv gfldex, how do i fix that
gfldex samcv: you send a PR to the module author :-> 18:38
samcv dies
gfldex samcv: give me a few minutes
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samcv compiles a full list of modules that are failing. well partial. but mostly complete 18:39
gfldex samcv: `git config credential.helper 'cache --timeout=86400'` 18:40
samcv i have no credentials on this server
gfldex samcv: that will cache any loging to github for hours 18:41
kyclark Thanks, timotimo 18:42
gfldex samcv: you can tell git to use https:// instead for git:// by default, but I don't know an easy way to google that
timotimo yw
RabidGravy gfldex, I haven't forgotten your PR for META6 18:43
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gfldex RabidGravy: don't worry, I did :) 18:44
[Coke] . 18:45
yoleaux 16:09Z <Zoffix> [Coke]: my April grant report has been published on blogs.perl.org. You can get it in Markdown format at github.com/zoffixznet/IOwesomeness...pr-2017.md
18:45 kyclark left
perlpilot samcv: What gfldex was talking about is: git config --global url.''.insteadOf 'git://' 18:46
samcv: I think
18:46 RabidGravy left, itaipu left
samcv yeah. fine. but. that doesn't solve th module not installing 18:46
i know it's possible to do that. but our users shouldn't have to
they might not have a github account 18:47
perlpilot indeed
samcv but at least that means it should be an easier fix to those modules?
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gfldex samcv: it is 18:54
samcv is there a way to make line linkable log files. how to easily do this/ 18:55
with this long log file i have
18:56 okcomputer left
samcv the `XXX` module uses `eval_lives_ok` it says did you mean eval-lives-ok 18:56
19:01 Cabanossi left
samcv ok so the XXX module. has PR fixing this going back to 2015... 19:02
timotimo fantastic
samcv i mean at what point do we remove them from the ecosystem?
timotimo we sometimes pull things into perl6-community-modules
which is a separate github user iirc?
samcv yeah. there's 4 PR that fix these things
it's not a project?
timotimo not sure 19:03
samcv also it has no license either
gfldex samcv: perl6 -e 'sub MAIN($lf){ put "<html><body><pre>"; slurp($lf).lines.map({„<a name="line-{$++}"/>$_\n“}).put; put "</pre></body></html>" }' ~/irclogs/freenode/gfldex.log > ~/public_html/foo.html
timotimo oh yeah it's an org
of course it is
samcv can we do that with modules with no license? 19:04
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RabidGravy gfldex, I cherry-picked your actual commit from the PR and ignored the revert 19:04
timotimo oh, that's problematic i expect
samcv yeah...
timotimo there's also a module somewhere that says "license: free for all"
gfldex RabidGravy: good
timotimo which ... yeah, no, sadly it doesn't work that way
samcv timotimo, that's not a license :(
T_T
samcv grabs the tea that should be ready
gfldex it's questionalbe to have a module in the ecosystem that don't got a license to start with. We don't got permission to redistribute it's META.info, what we must do to make the ecosystem work. 19:06
samcv checks and i don't have licenses on some of my modules...
gfldex there is that line in the ecosystem repo that kind of asks for that permission but since we don't validate the uploader that's not worth anything 19:07
samcv i mean some projects have the metadata under a very permissive license. and the project can be under whatever it wants
should we have a similar policy for submitting to the ecosystem?
hm 19:08
gfldex, we need a metadata field in the META.info for the license of the META file itself
and another one for the project
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gfldex also the module needs to state an author 19:09
how does CPAN handle these cases?
gfldex goes to add --set-license to META6::bin 19:10
samcv gfldex, where is the spec for the META file?
gfldex samcv: design.perl6.org/S22.html
samcv can we add a metadata-license field? 19:11
and require it for new additions to the module?
gfldex we should not need that as the author will upload the file to ecosystem/6PAN
and by doing to implicitly grants the right to redistribute the module and display any file 19:12
s/to/so/
samcv well. if we transition to another cpan system
we will want that
gfldex samcv: see bottom of github.com/perl6/ecosystem/ 19:13
samcv i saw it
i think would be a good idea to do. 19:14
gfldex the ecosystem doesn't check for an author and can't reject submissions (the PR handler should do that actually)
samcv i know it doesn't
timotimo oh nice, how long has this been there?
samcv that's why we should start implementing that for new additions
because some other projects have rules about metadata
and it must be a permissive license 19:15
gfldex samcv: it does check for errors ecosystem-api.p6c.org/errors.json
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samcv like so github.com/samcv/rakudo-appimage/b...ml#L15-L16 19:15
timotimo we can put a piece of text in github that'll be displayed to people who want to make issues, right?
would that also work for pullrequests?
samcv to get appimage xml file data syndicated you need to have a permissive license...
timotimo can we give them a "[ ] i accept the piece of legal text at the end of the readme" thing?
samcv so i think we should have the same thing
we can have that too timotimo but i think the meta itself needs to have it 19:16
because other places may want to distribute the META files. and the license should be inside of it
yes we can do that for pr timotimo i've done that before 19:17
Geth ecosystem: gfldex++ created pull request #320:
META.info -> META6.json
timotimo OK, yeah, we should probably do that
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timotimo gfldex: the --set-license thing in META6::bin, will that a) add a LICENSE file, b) set a license field in the meta file, c) set a metadata license field, or - more likely - all three? or only the first two until a metadata license field has been decided upon? 19:19
Geth ecosystem: 6c4cbe1033 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ (committed by Zoffix Znet) | META.list
META.info -> META6.json (#320)
 19:20
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samcv but even if we think that "somebody has agreed" it's still not very future looking approach. so we need a metadata-license. and we need to enforce it to be one of a certain set of licenses 19:22
that will allow it to be syndicated by other projects and such
MIT for example. there's a few more, i'll check
see here www.freedesktop.org/software/appst...esktopApps and scrolldown to Recommended metadata file contents 19:24
gfldex timotimo: it's setting "license": "Some Text" in the META6.info right now. If you start a project with META6::bin it defaults to Artistic License 2.0 right now and copies LICENSE from ~/.meta6/skeleton/LICENSE. 19:31
timotimo mhm
gfldex the default license name will go into the config 19:32
what reminds me that I need an elegant way to get they keys out of a multidim Hash (inverse ||@a). 19:33
samcv also artistic 2.0 says you can't make a new module of the same name with the same code right?
fork it that is 19:34
and call it the same thing even with a different auth?
gfldex samcv: if you put in on github they demand that you allow folk to hit the fork button
samcv that's not the same thing
gfldex goes to read the bloody license he is using for quite some time … 19:35
samcv: one could argue that 4b) is fulfilled by any Perl 6 module because it's fully qualified name in a concat of the module name and the author name 19:39
samcv i opened a issue on eco github.com/perl6/ecosystem/issues/321
yes
that may be true too
and i think as long as the person uses the auth explicitly inside the package then it would be ok 19:40
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samcv gonna read the artistic 2.0 myself right now. see if it's a *good* idea to have the metadata be set to that 19:41
gfldex actually you really have to change the name of the module as seen by `use` or you confuse the hell out of yourself.
samcv what do you think?
i haven't read it in the context of metadata yet 19:42
gfldex AL 2.0 does allow a change in license as long as it's in the same spirit 19:43
so it's not bad as a metadata license
samcv yeah
question is should it be the prefered metadata license for us or not? debian says it's all good. so that is very promising
gfldex section 7 and 8 apply too
it may be problematic if someone on the ISS would like to use our software 19:45
"(13) This license includes the non-exclusive, worldwide,"
samcv X|
samcv dies
it says non-exclusive though 19:46
includes. so that doesn't negate non-worldwide
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samcv artistic license 2.0.1? 19:46
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gfldex the "non-exclusive" referes to "patent license" 19:46
but then, we can't enforce in outerspace anyways 19:47
:)
samcv well. it is
not controlled by any country
due to treaties
so that is true
19:48 samcv left, samcv joined
samcv paging TimToady if you have any input 19:48
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smls m: say "ç".encode("utf8").decode("iso-8859-1") 19:50
camelia Can not decode a utf-8 buffer as if it were iso-8859-1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
smls ^^ Why not?
samcv why would you want to
that's not going to convert between two formats 19:51
smls I know
samcv but why?
probably because it's not valid utf-8?
or valid codepoint values?
idk.
smls I want to find out what string in Windows Codepage encoding produces the same bytes as mu utf8 string
*my
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samcv well code is in src/core/Buf.pm that doesn't let it do that 19:52
in rakudo
gfldex samcv: you could now `zef upgrade META6::bin; find ~/projects/perl6/lib -name META6.json | xargs -n 1 dirname | xargs -n 1 -I '{}' echo meta6 --set-license="Artistic License 2.0" --base-dir="{}"` 19:53
samcv: you could now `zef upgrade META6::bin; find ~/projects/perl6/lib -name META6.json | xargs -n 1 dirname | xargs -n 1 -I '{}' meta6 --set-license="Artistic License 2.0" --base-dir="{}"`
actually
smls m: say "ç".encode("utf8").WHAT;
camelia (utf8)
smls m: say "ç".encode("utf8") ~~ Blob;
camelia True
samcv i wonder what happens if we let you override that error 19:54
smls m: say Blob.new( "ç".encode("utf8") ).decode("iso-8859-1"); 19:55
camelia ç
smls Heh, that ^^ seems to work
samcv heh
yea
we could have a :force option idk 19:56
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samcv or take out the check and let people do ridiculous things without realizing it 19:56
smls If the restriction is to save people from doing something different than they indend, then the error message should probably be more clear on that (and suggest a work-around) 19:57
rather than just sayuing "can not" ... :)
samcv hmm say "ç".encode("utf8").decode("iso-8859-1", :force)
i end up with the same character
maybe it's my terminal? hm
oh i see 19:58
it doesn't pass through the option 19:59
but also uhm. ok now it works fine 20:02
smls, i added a PR for RFC github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/1063 if you want to put some explaination on why this is useful 20:05
though idk maybe we don't want a :force option, but regardless. post something saying how people should be able to change decodings and such 20:06
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gfldex RabidGravy: maybe add to the README.md '$m<support><source> = 'github.com/you/somerepo.git' 20:26
skids m: class A { class B { }; method f { ::?CLASS::B.say } }; A.new.f # I go get my rubber chicken now 20:27
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Confused
at <tmp>:1
------> 3ss A { class B { }; method f { ::?CLASS:7⏏5:B.say } }; A.new.f # I go get my rubbe
expecting any of:
colon pair
skids m: class A { class B { }; method f { ::(::?CLASS.^name ~ "::B").say } }; A.new.f # eh... bet that ain't fast. 20:30
camelia (B)
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jnthn ::?CLASS.WHO<B> probably works as will be faster 20:44
*and
skids \o/ 20:45
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Geth ecosystem: 6d1ca05594 | (Samantha McVey)++ | PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md
Add a Pull Request Template
 20:57
samcv ok addad a pull request template
\o/
AlexDaniel mhm does it have to be so explicit 20:58
samcv idk. 20:59
maybe not
but we don't have a license field in META yet. which is the better solution
err a metadata license field 21:00
which would solve the actual problem and not require anything but travis checking to make sure it was there
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samcv and hopefully will remind people to add a license to their project 21:04
which i need to do actually 21:05
also atm the META spec says to use license url's as the license field. but i think that is not right 21:08
we should use the most widely used tags which are spdx license tags so like "Artistic-2.0" i think is artistics tag. and then under resources we can put a license field 21:09
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samcv this is what i just changed my META.info file to: github.com/samcv/URL-Find/blob/master/META.info 21:16
seems pretty sane
[Coke] do we need both license and resource/license? 21:17
samcv no 21:18
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samcv but if it's not one of the spdx.org/licenses/ ones here, then should probably have a resource. but it's def not required imo 21:19
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gfldex perl6 -e 'use META6::bin :HELPER; for fetch-ecosystem() { say .<name> if !.<license>.defined }' | wc -l 21:27
709
oh well
Geth ecosystem: 382d94d121 | (Samantha McVey)++ | PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md
Make the pull request template more inviting and friendly
 21:28
gfldex out of 816
timotimo samcv: is there a typo in "and bigger and better a place"?
samcv yes. 21:29
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timotimo and some - have spaces in front and others not 21:29
samcv yep
ack. my github markdown preview on atom renders a little differently than github
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Geth ecosystem: 9c57cd7940 | (Samantha McVey)++ | PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md
Grammar and formatting fixes to pull request template
 21:32
AlexDaniel don't worry… markdown gists, comments and wiki pages on github render differently as well… 21:33
samcv X|
timotimo oh, just today i saw a problem in github's perl6 syntax highlighting 21:34
it was like / 'foo//' / and the rest of the file was shown as regex or something
any reason to dig it up?
Geth ecosystem: 181ec478c1 | (Samantha McVey)++ | PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md
Not everbody knows how to use github checkboxes. Be more friendly
 21:37
samcv and just in case. encountered this issue afew times on learnxinyminutes.com's github. we had checkboxes
AlexDaniel timotimo: *shrug*. Too many highlighting bugs, only one samcv :(
samcv and several times peolpe had no clue how the hell to use them
heh
you guys can fix them yourself too :P
i have a contributing.md page that is a tutorial on how the grammars work 21:38
timotimo oh, no, regexes scare me :P
samcv also i don't know why github ruined all my links github.com/perl6/atom-language-perl6
look at how ugly this is
timotimo yikes 21:39
samcv and idk how to fix it
because i didn't change anything
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samcv it works perfectly on my atom github markdown preview 21:40
AlexDaniel by the way I see that variables like $ok or $gist are highlighted incorrectly
samcv well i know it is perfect
link
also github sucks
sometimes it doesn't fully highlight pages and it's not my fault. but link me to where you see this 21:41
AlexDaniel github.com/perl6/whateverable/blob...le.pm6#L61 and github.com/perl6/whateverable/blob...e.pm6#L341
samcv yeah that's github sucking. highlights perfectly for me
sometimes it like misses things
or maybe that's just how they highlight variables? 21:42
hm actually.
yeah all those variables highlight identically for me. i checked the tokens 21:43
but i could try changing something maybe. will take a while for github to take effect until it repulls in changes but 21:44
i need to see their stylesheet
they don't have any tokens for variables in most places and i have no clue why 21:46
they do some postprocessing to reduce the size of the html though and abbreviate things. like our docs have the full token names
this is maybe what they do AlexDaniel gist.github.com/demisx/025698a7b5e314a7a4b5 21:48
i don't even know how i could play around with this other than changing something and waitig hella long time. 21:49
they seem to be discarding certain tokens
though
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ingy the perl6 repl suggests I use zef ...; which I don't have... and the things I find on the web about zef tell me to use other things I don't have... 21:54
gfldex ingy: you need git and rakudo
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timotimo ingy: point us toward "the things"? 21:54
zef is totally, whole-heartedly recommended 21:55
mst ingy: rakudo star ships with zef
ingy okiedoke
and rakudobrew?
mst ingy: if you don't have zef, you either have an old star, or you decided to be clever and install things by hand
Geth ecosystem: 25f071654a | (Samantha McVey)++ | META.list
URL::Find change to META6.json
timotimo rakudobrew has "build-zef"
or "build zef"
mst ingy: rakudobrew is for people developing rakudo
timotimo or something
gfldex ingy: try: `git clone github.com/ugexe/zef; cd zef; perl6 -I lib bin/zef --force install .
ingy I just installed from nom 21:56
Geth ecosystem: eb27661f94 | (Samantha McVey)++ | PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md
Fix link for PR template example to META6.json
ingy I can get zef installed. Was just pointing out rude seeming behaviour. 21:57
mst I still don't know what you actually did
ingy But since I built from nom instead of star, I no longer feel that way
mst right, yeah, that's the rakudo from scratch approach
as with LFS, you don't get a full distro that way ;) 21:58
ingy I installed perl6, ran perl6, got told about zef, got annoyed...
noted
timotimo should we reword the message, then?
ingy prolly not
mst also, not having a full installer in core
at least means we'll have different problems to the cpan/cpanplus/etc. fun that perl5's experienced
ingy ignore the whole ingytrusion 21:59
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Geth ecosystem: a3bf0b72c4 | (Samantha McVey)++ | PULL_REQUEST_TEMPLATE.md
Fix error, license URL's should be listed under support key
 22:10
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Geth specs: samcv++ created pull request #120:
Update META info for the license section		 22:16
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timotimo socket.io claims to be a "realtime" framework, yet there isn't a single issue on their github that asks them to remove this ridiculous claim 22:25
samcv you should make one 22:26
timotimo nah, this is only good for a minute of ranting 22:27
i don't actually want anybody to feel bad for not knowing what realtime means
samcv but.
don't make me submit an issue for you
timotimo these people are out there making real money without knowing a single solitary thing that any ivy tower elitist would claim is required knowledge
samcv real money? is that like real time?
timotimo well, it's real money the same way socket.io is real time 22:28
gfldex it's fiat money, so yes, it's like real time
timotimo there are no guarantees that they will receive money at all
samcv obviously they make real money so they must be real time
have you used socket.io timotimo
timotimo i have not 22:29
i wonder how a pullrequest suggesting to put scarequotes around every mention of "real time" would be received 22:31
probably poorly
samcv loopback.io/doc/en/lb2/Realtime-socket-io.html
Building a real-time app using socket.io and AngularJS
samcv walks off a short plank
nice timotimo
timotimo come on, be nice. javascript devs already have to deal with loads of crap thrown their way 22:32
mst samcv: I have
timotimo i should also be nice 22:33
mst socket.io is a perfectly sensible idea, with an implementation that's 95% crack because of the various olde browsers it supports
timotimo they are basically taking a bullet for other js devs, eh?
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u-ou why can classes that do roles access the done role's private attributes but not roles that do roles? 22:35
timotimo hm, good question. does deriving from the other role instead help? 22:37
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u-ou yeah 22:37
samcv timotimo, is this to omean i.imgur.com/C3TCR3a.png
u-ou if you go role A, role B does A, class C does B
is that what you mean?
samcv did i go too far 22:38
see image i attached at bottom
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timotimo did you also try on node.js if that makes it real-time? 22:40
samcv lol did you see the uploaded picture at bottom of my screenshot
timotimo u-ou: no, i mean "role B is A"
u-ou can roles is? 22:41
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timotimo samcv: well, i hope they can take a joke and just laugh it off 22:41
samcv lol
timotimo i think so
22:41 gfldex joined
u-ou I don't even get what that would mean, for a role to is instead of do 22:41
timotimo m: role B { has $!foo }; role A is B { method test { say $!foo } }; class C does A { }; C.test
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Attribute $!foo not declared in role A
at <tmp>:1
------> 3ole A is B { method test { say $!foo } }7⏏5; class C does A { }; C.test
expecting any of:
horizontal whitespace
…
samcv idk. i'm starting to feel a little bad. but the screenshot is also hilarious to me
timotimo okay, it doesn't work
yes, the screenshot is pretty fantastic 22:42
please provide a "solution how to fix", too
22:43 ChoHag left
timotimo also, is your brain really the OS? i find it hard to properly assign labels like that 22:43
u-ou you're running js on your brain?
samcv i'm gonna change the screenshot tho
err i mean
timotimo oh, you're missing a " before Source in the first part
samcv the steps to reproduce
* read definition of realtime computing * use socket.io * see screenshot attached 22:44
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Zoffix FWIW, since I suspect more people will come around asking about it: There's an OSX REPL history bug that made it into release (and thus will be part of Rakudo Star). When starting REPL, it displays a message about failed mkdir '/' and doesn't save history. Most users can probably just ignore the message and move on with their lives, but if they really need saved history they can make a shell alias for REPL 22:44
That Saves: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/6a0d212...fa9efcc263
I don't have OSX to test this on, but my educated guess is it works. 22:45
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AlexDaniel samcv: this is hilarious XD 22:47
samcv yeah it's pretty great
timotimo even if it is funny, please don't go "dog-piling" onto their project
samcv made a few changes AlexDaniel i.imgur.com/5gbG8Qp.png i think about ready to submit
AlexDaniel evidence attached XDD 22:48
samcv lol.
AlexDaniel the previous title was fine by the way 22:49
it was exactly how they wrote it 22:50
samcv lol.
AlexDaniel horizon.io/ 22:51
samcv ok well iupdated it
ugexe pr sent to fix http::server::tiny test
samcv to add a step to the reproduction steps
issue is here github.com/socketio/socket.io/issues/2915
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timotimo samcv: don't react to your own bug report with a thumbs up :P 22:56
samcv fine! 22:57
somebody else thumbs up then!
timotimo someone else already did
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timotimo thanks to atlus turning off screenshots and video clips in persona 5 i can't make a video showing socket.io ripping off its "realtime" mask … 23:00
it's kinda strange that the issue list shows that bug as "1/2 done" because the "i want to report a bug" box is ticked and the "feature request" box isn't 23:01
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samcv lol timotimo 23:03
timotimo what do they even expect from calling their stuff "realtime"?
it's not like when you open a websocket you have to wait three days for the post office to deliver a connection invitation? 23:04
samcv idk.....
it makes no sense
you don't need realtime for sockets usually either
timotimo is it just their word for "fast"?
samcv i think they mean asynchronous?
that's what it should say
timotimo i don't think you can actually get realtime guarantees for sockets unless you have full control over the whole network?
perhaps "live"?
BBIAB 23:05
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MasterDuke_ you could have a realtime guarantee about how quicklyl you respond to incoming data on a socket, right? 23:06
samcv i search for realtime sockets and get 12.9 million results on google 23:07
realtime sockets -socket.io returns wayyyy les
only 600k
www.google.com/search?num=100&...-socket.io 23:08
timotimo, github.com/videlalvaro/gifsockets
at least they did Real Time (TM) 23:09
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AlexDaniel I thought it was for “streaming” 23:10
23:10 mcmillhj left
AlexDaniel but streaming sockets… wtf… 23:10
timotimo yes! gif sockets! 23:13
i remember that <3
you can tell they're a cool project because they wrote it in clojure rather than js 23:15
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timotimo masak: i went ahead and made druid pass its tests again :) 23:26
bisectable6: $_ = <1>; when (3..*) | (* < 1) { say "doh" } 23:31
bisectable6 timotimo, On both starting points (old=2015.12 new=b4fa6d6) the exit code is 0 and the output is identical as well
timotimo, Output on both points: «doh»
timotimo i wonder when that happened
c: 2015.10 $_ = <1>; when (3..*) | (* < 1) { say "doh" }
committable6 timotimo, ¦2015.10: «doh»
timotimo c: 2015.08 $_ = <1>; when (3..*) | (* < 1) { say "doh" }
committable6 timotimo, ¦2015.08: «Cannot find this revision (did you mean “2016.08”?)»
timotimo c: 2015.09 $_ = <1>; when (3..*) | (* < 1) { say "doh" }
committable6 timotimo, ¦2015.09: «»
timotimo bisectable6: GOOD=2015.09 BAD=2015.10 $_ = <1>; when (3..*) | (* < 1) { say "doh" } 23:32
bisectable6 timotimo, Bisecting by output (old=2015.09 new=2015.10) because on both starting points the exit code is 0
timotimo, bisect log: gist.github.com/fc27be678e79ed2583...172dcdba46
timotimo, (2015-10-22) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/58...4fd01424bc
23:34 cpage_ joined 23:46 Cabanossi left
timotimo masak: now you can even run the cli, but it doesn't show the 3d view yet 23:48
23:48 Cabanossi joined 23:49 labster left 23:50 labster joined 23:54 mcmillhj joined
timotimo masak: the 3d view works again \o/ 23:56
23:59 mcmillhj left

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