»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
timotimo Zoffix: the node attribute is to install the match object so that other pieces of the compiler chain know where the object came from. at the very least it gives line numbers 00:01
Zoffix timotimo: thanks.
timotimo YW
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lookatme o/ 00:46
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timotimo so, is the perl 6 code in the "all the stars of perl 6" blog post supposed to be ".say for 1...**"? because i don't see a mention of HyperWhatever anywhere in the post 00:57
Geth doc: 3bef31d57d | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/Str.pod6
Clarify Str.trans: :d deletes only…

  …matches that don't got a replacement char for 'em		 01:07
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Str
doc: 20f3aff032 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/Str.pod6
Clarify :d is ignored in Str.trans: :d, :c…

If replacement chars are given. Closes github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1309		 01:09
timotimo DrForr: in your test all the things post you refer to `empty call` as if it were being passed to ok at some point in the example, but that seems to have been edited out or somethin 01:10
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manchicken So, I'm thinking of doing a series on NativeCall tutorials. Has anybody ever done that? 01:11
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manchicken I'm trying to teach myself this, and I figured a neat little documentation project would be the easiest way of doing so. 01:12
perlawhi1l Hi people 01:13
kyan Just a heads up about a problem on the Web site: the body text is written from Camelia's perspective, but in a narrow/zoomed-in display, Camelia is hidden (presumably by CSS media queries). 01:14
perlawhi1l Can I check if a variable is contrained by a subset (without specifying the subset by name)... 01:15
m: subset Foo of Int where * > 0; my Foo $f = 5; say $f.WHAT;
camelia (Int)
perlawhi1l is there anything i can ask `$f` that will tell me it is contrained by subset Foo ?
timotimo ah yes, it's got the class img-responsile (also, center-block, not sure what that is for, exactly)
perlawhi1l besides $f ~~ Foo
timotimo $f.isa(Foo) perhaps, perlawhi1l
perlawhi1l ok, so unless I know the name of the subset in advance, I can ask. 01:16
can't
timotimo that's not true :)
m: subset Foo of Str where / "hi" /; my $which-to-check = "Foo"; say "oh hi" ~~ ::($which-to-check) 01:17
camelia True
timotimo m: subset Foo of Str where / "hi" /; my $which-to-check = "Int"; say "oh hi" ~~ ::($which-to-check)
camelia False
TimToady m: subset Foo of Str where / "hi" /; my $which-to-check = "Foo"; say "oh hi" ~~ $which-to-check
camelia False
TimToady m: subset Foo of Str where / "hi" /; my $which-to-check = Foo; say "oh hi" ~~ $which-to-check
camelia True
timotimo kyan: oh, actually, there's a media query for #welcome-header which has display: none !important, that's what's making it go away 01:18
TimToady still works even if the name is a .WHAT
timotimo greetings TimToady
TimToady granted you need ::() if you're only given a string 01:19
perlawhi1l so given `subset Foo of Int; my Foo $f;`... without typing the letters 'Foo', is there anything I can ask $f that returns 'Foo'
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timotimo m: subset Foo of Int where 0 < * < 9; my Foo $var = 4; say $var.VAR.of 01:20
camelia (Foo)
TimToady m: subset Foo of Int; my Foo $f; say 42 ~~ $f.VAR.of
camelia True
timotimo that gives you the type object you can directly typecheck against
perlawhi1l thanks! TimToady++ 01:21
MasterDuke manchicken: i don't know of any
timotimo or you can .^name and get it as a string, and later get it from your lexical scope (important) with the ::() thing
TimToady but if $f is visible, why don' tyou know the type :)
perlawhi1l I do :D I just wanted to know how I can introspect it
timotimo well, it could have been passed in an "is raw" argument for example
manchicken MasterDuke, well then, I'll go ahead and do that. 01:22
I will likely also submit some pull requests.
First: how to play with C structs.
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Slayerk Hi all! 01:22
manchicken (all of this is me learning enough to implement librabbitmq-c)
timotimo manchicken: i believe perl6-intro.com has a short intro to nativecall, too
TimToady m: sub foo(::T \sumpthin) { say 42 ~~ T }; foo(42)
camelia True
Slayerk Does Perl 6 have something like the delay function in C?
manchicken I'm going to make a quick GitHub repo that has a bunch of different stuff. 01:23
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manchicken Slayerk, is that a Windows function? 01:23
I don't think that's a POSIX routine.
TimToady doesn't know what delay() does
timotimo Slayerk: if you're looking to actually block a thread, you'd use "sleep" (takes its argument in seconds, but allows fractions, of course)
otherwise you can "await Promise.in($seconds)" and other tasks can be done on the thread if it's in a thread pool scheduler (and you have version 6.d.PREVIEW turned on) 01:24
Slayerk manchiken: Not sure, sorry :P
TimToady well, I guess the question is what *you* want to do :) 01:25
Slayerk Well, I'm trying to make terminal animation :P
timotimo oh, have you considered looking at Terminal::Print, Slayerk? 01:27
TimToady sleep will likely be adequate for that, and it's not difficult to switch to promises if you need to later
Slayerk TimToady: Thanks, will see how it goes and will report back the results :) timotimo: Thanks for you advice
It works guys! 01:30
timotimo perl6advent.wordpress.com/2017/12/...th-perl-6/ - the newest post is live! 01:31
kyan timotimo: mm, well, anyhow, it makes the "Hi, my name is Camelia." become somewhat disembodied ;P 01:32
timotimo it's true
Geth doc: 7351392425 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6
Document tr///
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/operators
timotimo i don't have a good hunch for how to solve it elegantly
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kyan perhaps put Camelia into the same div as the intro paragraph, and then float right? 01:34
Geth doc: 023e4a7bc2 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/5to6-perlfunc.pod6
Clean up tr/// Perl 5 docs

  - Remove mentions of speculations
  - Just link to Str.trans for docs
  - Mention TR///		 01:35
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/5to6-perlfunc
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Geth doc: f45e36ce04 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6
Document TR/// pseudo op

Rakudo impl: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f695862409 Spec: github.com/perl6/roast/commit/27cc9417fc RT#127824: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=127824		 01:42
synopsebot RT#127824 [new]: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=127824 [RFC] TR/ / / is not implemented
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Zoffix kyan: it gets hidden because on mobile real estate is at a premium and there's already a camelia from the header a few lines above: i.imgur.com/ktg83b6.png 01:43
kyan: if you wanna tweak it, gimme your github username, and I'll give you a commit bit. 01:44
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timotimo Zoffix: that's not on the main page, though 01:44
or does it appear in tiny if the page is too narrow?
Zoffix timotimo: ah, I'm actually unsure which site we're talking about. Docs or main? :) 01:45
If it's main, yeah, I see on mobile there ain't none camelias 01:46
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Zoffix Which sucks 'cause para says "Hi, my name is Camelia" :) 01:46
kyan: wanna fix it? :)
timotimo that's exactly what kyan was complaining about
the juxtaposition of "hi i'm camelia" and "no camelia to be seen"
Zoffix Ah, I misread.
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timotimo that would explain the confusion 01:47
i'll go to bed 01:48
have a good one!
Geth doc: 931506df60 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6
Add example of tr/// with adverbs up on it
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/operators
Zoffix \o
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TimToady Zoffix: the :node($/) is mostly used for current line number, but the match object is the only way to convey everything in the "current language" to subsequent compiler passes, since dynvars (the old way to do that) go out of scope too soon 01:54
Geth perl6.org: a55a3d981f | (Zoffix Znet)++ | README.md
Add tip about nuking source/archive

while building
timotimo kyan: if you fix the page for mobile, maybe you can come up with something clever for the tabs above the examples box, too
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TimToady which is why all the pragmas, braids, etc. now can be found via match objct methods 01:55
Zoffix TimToady: still unsure when it should be used though. Here I saw it passed to the callmethod op and then to the Var qast a few lines down as well: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/mast...8131-L8134 01:56
Are both needed? vOv
kyan I'll look at it after finals week :) 01:59
TimToady in general we want every QAST node to know its line number, minimally, cuz we don't know who's gonna throw an error based on what 02:00
and there's already a node pointer in the QAST, so might as well fill it
the redundancy is more perceived than real
Zoffix OK :)
TimToady otherwise you start getting error messages that don't know the line number, or pragma decisions that don't know the values of their pragma, etc. 02:01
and basically you're just gonna keep a heap of pointers into the original match structure, but that match structure itself is not duplicated 02:03
Zoffix Ah
AndChat|688961 Just out of curiosity, would Perl6 be faster if the procedural Paradigm was removed, if Perl6 was strictly OO?
TimToady um, OO is essentially procedural underneath anyway, you're just hiding the variables inside objects 02:04
AndChat|688961 Oh, okay.
timotimo well, and you get method resolution order stuff. depending on whether you put multiple dispatch (or just overloaded methods) in there as well ...
in procedural code, you'd probably always know what a given piece of code is calling?
in fact, if you use subs or private methods nowadays, we're already selecting the right candidate up front where possible 02:05
02:05 AndChat|688961 is now known as comborico
TimToady now, with purely functional programming (FP), you try to avoid side effects, so you treat the data as immutable, and that can occasionally have some benefits for the optimizer, and you could call that "removing procedural code", but it's sort of the opposite way of controlling state changes from OO 02:07
comborico Oh. 02:08
TimToady OO tries to hide state changes inside objects, while FP tries to hide state changes in the parameter bindings of the call stack 02:09
manchicken Well poop. 02:10
NativeCall is giving me `image not found` issues.
TimToady which one is more efficient really depends on the nature of the problem you're trying to solve
manchicken The library is there, the symbols exist... but it's not loading.
timotimo "image"?
ah, it could very well be it's missing the "blah.so" file, and doesn't look for "blah.so.1.2.3"
TimToady I think there's a faq about that 02:11
timotimo you often have to install the corresponding -dev package to get those symlinks
manchicken The file is there. OSX.
timotimo oh, dylibs, then
TimToady I think the faq even mentions OSX
manchicken What's weird, I'm able to see it elsewhere.
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timotimo manchicken: i hear dtruss can tell you info about what the program is doing underneath 02:12
lookatme Is Perl6 support tail recursive ?
comborico Thank you for your time. Goodnight. 02:13
lookatme night
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colomon started using NativeCall for his $work today 02:14
lookatme m: react { whenever supply { emit 123; (< 1 2 3 4 5 6 >.race.map(sub ($x) { emit $x; } ).list) } { .say } } 02:15
camelia 123
Zoffix manchicken: that'd be great. I'm unaware of any good tutorials like that. I tried writing it but gave up after first article 'cause I don't know C: rakudo.party/post/Perl-6-NativeCal...Programmer 02:16
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manchicken I think that the `Build.pm` w/`ref build .` is putting the lib in `resources/lib`, but that for some reason when I run `perl6 ./t/data-transfer.t` it can't find the file. 02:17
I don't really understand how the pathing works.
Zoffix, don't worry, I'm going to write something about it.
Zoffix \o/
manchicken As soon as I get it working.
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Geth perl6.org: 1db2d49ea9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 4 files
Move nav items/fix nav on mobilish devices

  - Move "Compilers" and "Design" items into "Resources"
   - Seems a more appropriate place and than front-and-center
   - Cleans up valuable space in the nav
  - Reduce nav item padding a bit to make the nav show up on one line
   on iPad-sized devices (fixes unwanted hidage of stuff)
  - Gabor's book's funderaiser is closed, so I removed the link		 02:19
manchicken I can't get truss to work. 02:20
MasterDuke manchicken: does strace work on OSX?
manchicken Naw, dtrace
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MasterDuke lookatme: short answer, not now, longer answer here irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-12-08#i_15551545 02:23
lookatme oh, thanks 02:25
MasterDuke np
Geth perl6.org: b026f297da | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 3 files
Fix homepage camelia; kyan++ for noticing issues
 02:29
Zoffix kyan: sorry :) Couldn't help but fix camelia. You can improve the examples tabs or whatever else you think needs improvement 02:30
Zoffix &
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manchicken OK... so this is cool. 02:43
Somehow it's magically working after a reboot... I'm thoroughly confused.
But whatever.
I have a SIGSEGV, though, so that's cool. It's progress.
I suspect it's on account of my having not properly allocated a thing. 02:44
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lookatme :) 02:51
Win: Have a problem ? -> try reboot :P 02:52
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manchicken Well, this is a POSIX system, so I kinda expect better :) 03:04
So, trying to figure out how to allocate strings for output params. 03:05
BOOM! 03:07
Gotta have a `TWEAK` or something to preset your Str property to `$!foo := Str.new`
Geth ecosystem: dmaestro++ created pull request #382:
Add SQL::Lexer
TimToady lookatme: medium answer, TCO is not friendly toward parallelization in FP languages as pointed out by Guy Steele and others, see for instance xahlee.info/comp/Guy_Steele_paralle...uting.html 03:08
buggable New CPAN upload: SQL-Lexer-0.1.1.tar.gz by DMAESTRO cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/D/DM/...1.1.tar.gz
TimToady iteration vs parallel recursion should be (mostly) an implementation issue, not something the programmer should think about much 03:10
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TimToady so p6 is biased toward making you think about lists without privileging the head over the tail 03:11
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manchicken Should I submit pull requests in small chunks? 03:29
I have a small blurb I added to the `NativeCall` about managing memory within your CStruct. 03:30
TimToady depends on how closely related the chunks are, such that they can be evaluated together 03:40
and certainly one can revise a pull request if parts of it are problematic 03:41
AlexDaniel .tell thou in my experience PRs are getting merged faster if they come with a corresponding roast PR with tests :)
TimToady so there's no need to be overly reductionistic about it
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to thou.
AlexDaniel .tell thou which is something you can help with in this particular case, fwiw 03:43
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to thou.
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manchicken Weeee: github.com/manchicken/perl6-native...ple-struct 03:51
Super simple demo of how to pass structs around. 03:52
I'm going to go to bed, please feel free to email me with feedback if you have it.
I also have my diffs for the docs here: github.com/perl6/doc/compare/maste...2?expand=1 03:53
It's not a lot, but it's something.
That stupid build issue cost me an hour tonight. :(
Night.
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Geth doc: d1c4c641b1 | (Tim Smith)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod6
Escape | and + in table cells
 05:48
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/operators
softmoth Thanks, AlexDaniel ! 05:52
BTW, I'm `thou`, switched IRC nick to match github (thou has been an OLD name here on freenode) 05:53
lookatme :) 05:55
TEttinger this is a good soft moth farm9.staticflickr.com/8433/7602638...9d85_z.jpg 06:02
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softmoth TEttinger, hey, that is a very nice one! 08:05
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lookatme How can I get parent pid in Perl6 ? 08:27
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moritz with nativecall and getppid, if nobody has a better idea 08:28
lookatme :) It's better if there is a $*PPID 08:30
DrForr Also clutters the namespace. 08:35
moritz I think we should have a POSIX module for that 08:37
pull request for github.com/cspencer/perl6-posix maybe? 08:38
DrForr More work for me to forget to finish. 08:41
lookatme oh, maybe work :) 08:44
AlexDaniel I think we should have $*PPID 08:45
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AlexDaniel lookatme: hehe github.com/perl6/whateverable/blob...#L317-L320 08:46
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AlexDaniel or, otherwise, why do we have $*PID ? 08:47
lookatme yeah, that's a solution, works fine
Cause Perl 5 has a variable named $PID ?
But no $PPID
:)
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AlexDaniel lookatme: mkay, although I dislike this line of reasoning :) 08:48
DrForr %*PROCESS<PARENT> # etc? 08:49
lookatme m:say %*PROCESS<PARENT>; # ? 08:50
evalable6 (exit code 1) Dynamic variable %*PROCESS not found
in block <unit> at /tmp/WuIS5fJp86 line 1
DrForr Just a suggestion. 08:51
lookatme use NativeCall; sub getppid(--> long) is native(Str) {*}; say getppid();
m: use NativeCall; sub getppid(--> long) is native(Str) {*}; say getppid();
camelia 24129
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eugene_barsky Hi 08:52
lookatme But I think $*PPID is clear :)
moritz hi eugene_barsky
lookatme hi
eugene_barsky Seems that it's Linenoise that slows down my REPL startup. I added linenoise support to my small script and now it loads 5-7 seconds. 08:54
moritz you could try readline instead 08:55
lookatme I recommend Readline
eugene_barsky The GNU Readline Library?
lookatme grep: Readline 08:56
greppable6 lookatme, gist.github.com/bf3802450f95f67df5...a6809caf5f
moritz eugene_barsky: the Perl 6 library that wraps GNU Readline
lookatme :) Though I can not access gist, but I can do a search for u :)
eugene_barsky Thanks!! I'll try it.
DrForr keeps an ear to the channel :) 08:57
lookatme eugene_barsky, a little example github.com/araraloren/perl6-app-sn...t.pm6#L281 08:59
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eugene_barsky lookatme: Thanks, that's what I was looking for! 09:00
lookatme YW
eugene_barsky moritz: thanks! 09:02
jast hi guys, I need some help here... I just don't understand why Perl 6 is full of all these awesome things, can anyone explain?
lookatme What things ?
DrForr Because we've been packing as much syntax as we can get into a confined space? :)
lookatme :) 09:03
jast that's a good thing, right? :)
lookatme Maybe good, for me :)
teatime lol, jast++ 09:04
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moritz jast: I could explain, but first you have to read two books, to give you some context... :-) 09:07
<rant>apress/springer still haven't fixed their bloody webshop</rant> 09:08
jast moritz: well, it sure is nice to get some input from someone neutral and unbiased :} 09:09
AlexDaniel u: ♂
unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+2642 MALE SIGN [So] (♂)
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scimon So. I can't remember who introduced me to adventofcode.com yesterday... thanks. I needed another distraction (like the proverbial hole in the head) but it's puzzles. Up to day 12. Many of the (terrible) solutions are now on github (github.com/Scimon/advent-of-code) a lot of the early ones were so simple in perl6 I command lined them. 09:18
yoleaux 12 Dec 2017 21:04Z <timotimo> scimon: it might not be worth mutch, but (^9 X ^9).map(-> ($x, $y) { }) is noticably slower than (^9 X ^9).flat.map(-> $x, $y { }): gist.github.com/25788b01599b86f109...18f7f2a16d
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scimon timotimo: Hmmmm interesting. I may have to try that out. I do use it a bit. (^9 X ^9).map(-> ($x, $y) { }) feels more idomatic though.... speed it nice though.... 09:20
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AlexDaniel` scimon: if you need more distractions: code-golf.io 10:54
scimon I know... Xmas holiday.
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Geth doc: 8ae8e7ef8a | (Luca Ferrari)++ | doc/Language/containers.pod6
Add link to 'Scalar' class in containers documentation.
 11:09
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/containers
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buggable New CPAN upload: Game-Sudoku-1.1.2.tar.gz by SCIMON cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/S/SC/...1.2.tar.gz 12:18
Voldenet is there any way to supress stderr in qqx-invoked commands?
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Voldenet I could just 2>/dev/null in the command itself, but it doesn't look too great 12:20
moritz you'd have to use run instead of qx 12:21
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Voldenet > sub qx(*@cmd){ given Proc::Async.new: @cmd { .stderr.tap({$}); my @o; .stdout.tap({ @o.push($_) }); await .start; @o }}; 12:33
I'm unsure how to /silence/ stderr in that case too
teatime just don't call .stderr, according to the docs 12:34
you do have to read both streams tho or you risk a deadlock... presumable Proc::Async is smart enough to know that / do it for you 12:35
Voldenet actually, not doing anything to the .stderr just passes the stderr to the perl's stderr 12:36
which isn't what I want :)
teatime hrm 12:38
that doesn't sound right
teatime has the sudden realization that can use Perl6 like an Expect that doesn't suck. 12:40
timotimo you just tap it and do nothing with the result, i believe 12:43
teatime it's super weird to me it outputs it to the programs stderr 12:44
Voldenet I guess it works as requested, I'm just overly pedantic about the readability
teatime: it's okay - most applications don't write to stderr unless there's /an error/ ;) 12:45
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teatime well, it's ok to output various free-form debug information into stderr 12:45
that's what it's for
because you can redirect it away and get just pure "output" when that's what you need 12:46
jast it kind of makes sense that stderr goes to stderr if not accessing it means no redirect is set up
teatime kindof, yeah.
is there a null supply consumer / sink, or is {} basically that 12:47
jast: yeah, I suppose so..
just a LTA in docs I guess
Voldenet teatime: {} is interpreted as hash by default, needs that little $ somewhere
teatime oh. is {$} really the best way to do that?
Voldenet My question exactly ;) 12:48
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teatime like, it seems like {$} would trip the useless use of scalar value warning 12:56
you could do -> $ {}, though ? 12:57
Voldenet m: {$}(<nope, it wouldn't trip any warnings>) 12:58
camelia ( no output )
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teatime moritz: if I were going to buy your Perl 6 book, is there a particular vendor that would be best for you for me to use? 13:14
oh nice, I didn't know about your grammars book either. sounds good. 13:16
moritz teatime: for me, it doesn't really matter. For you, it's about convenience 13:18
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moritz teatime: if you want an ebook, you get a watermarked (but DRM-free) ebook from apress.com 13:18
on amazon, you only get kindle 13:19
scimon moritz: you need to get you some referral links setup ;) 13:21
moritz scimon: apress has a referral program, but it requires a US tax ID
13:22 rindolf joined
scimon Awwww.... 13:22
teatime hrm.. you may be able to get one?
moritz scimon: and I get neglible amounts from the amazon referal program, so I tend to send people to smile.amazon.com
teatime: I may or may not, but so far, I simply don't think it's worth the effort 13:23
rindolf Hi all, sup? Happy Hanukkah
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araraloren |o/ 13:31
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pochi m: try { CATCH { default { say "hello"; } }; my @x = "4,foo".split(",").map: *.Int; } 13:44
camelia ( no output )
pochi shouldn't this say "hello"?
timotimo m: say ("foo".Int).WHAT 13:49
camelia (Failure)
timotimo failures are "lazy" exceptions
pochi ah, so not until I use the result will an exception actually trigger my handler? 13:50
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raschipi pochi: You can force it to blow up, but if you don't touch it won't. 14:01
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raschipi docs.perl6.org/language/pragmas#in...atal-fatal 14:05
Well, isn't the try block supposed to turn Failures fatal anyway? 14:06
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Voldenet m: try { CATCH { default { say "hello"; } }; my @x = "4,foo".split(",").map: *.Int; } 14:10
camelia ( no output )
pochi I tried fatal, but it didn't trigger it. seems I have to use the result
Voldenet m: try { CATCH { default { say "hello"; } }; my @x = "4,foo".split(",").map({ .Int }); }
camelia hello
pochi why would using a block in map change things? 14:11
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teatime I really liked the idea of failures, but every time they actually come up they confuse the crap out of me. 14:12
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raschipi It's an undefined value that carries out-of-band information on what went wrong... 14:12
teatime so what's the answer to pochi's latest question? 14:14
Voldenet I'm not sure why using a block in map would change things, but I guess there's a difference between how WhateverCode and Block is treated
pochi m: my @x; try { CATCH { default { say "hello"; } }; @x = "4,foo".split(",").map: *.Int; }; say @x;
camelia Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5foo' (indicated by ⏏)
in block at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
14:14 cdg left
pochi now I'm using @x, but it doesn't catch the exception 14:15
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raschipi m: try { CATCH { default { say "hello"; } }; my @x = "4,foo".split(",").map: *.Int.sink-all; } 14:19
camelia hello
raschipi m: try { CATCH { default { say "hello"; } }; my @x = "4,foo".split(",").map(*.Int).sink-all; } 14:20
camelia hello
Voldenet m: try { CATCH { default { .say; } }; my @x = "4,foo".split(",").map(*.Int).sink-all; } 14:21
camelia No such method 'sink-all' for invocant of type 'Seq'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Voldenet *cough*
pochi so, sink-all makes it non-lazy?
teatime what's weird to me is map(Whateverable) ends up lazy but map({block}) doesn't? 14:22
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teatime I thought about that for the answer to "why does whateverable not raise when block does", but thought nah, can't be that 14:23
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Voldenet m: try { CATCH { default { .say; } }; my @x = "4,foo".split(",").map: *.Int.sink; } 14:24
camelia Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5foo' (indicated by ⏏)
in whatevercode at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
raschipi m: try { CATCH { default { ; } }; my @x = "4,foo".split(",").map(*.Int).sink-all; say @x[0] } #Doesn't work
camelia ( no output )
Voldenet that'd work too
raschipi I only know about a .sink method on Proc, that's all the docs talk about
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Voldenet ah, right 14:26
...why does it work instead of giving `No such method 'sink' for invocant of type 'Int'` ಠ_ಠ 14:27
moritz m: Int.sink 14:29
camelia ( no output )
moritz m: say so Int.^can('sink')
camelia True
moritz m: say Int.^can('sink')
camelia (sink)
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moritz m: say Int.^can('sink')[0].package 14:29
camelia (Mu)
raschipi m: say Failure.^can('sink')
camelia (sink sink sink)
moritz it seems *everything* can sink
pochi is this the proverbial kitchen sink? :-) 14:30
raschipi It's just not documented.
lizmat well, doesn't that go for any method that lives in Mu?
Voldenet m: say "baloon".^can('sink')
camelia (sink)
lizmat if Mu can, than anything else can as well ?
moritz yes 14:31
Voldenet I bet it just doesn't do what I think it does and that's probably enough
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raschipi m: 4.sink.^name#The problem is that sink throws everything aways 14:33
camelia ( no output )
raschipi m: say 4.sink.^name
camelia Nil
Voldenet (the Failure docs say something about sink context causing a failure to throw, so I guessed it would just evaluate the item in sink context) 14:34
raschipi Yeah, that's not what it does, it actually sinks it 14:35
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Voldenet m: my @u = ["a"].map(*.Int); @u.iterator.sink-all 14:35
camelia ( no output )
Voldenet m: my @u = ["a"].map(*.Int); @u.map(*.sink) 14:36
camelia Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5a' (indicated by ⏏)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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Voldenet Hmmm, I'm unsure if sink-all works correctly 14:37
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Voldenet m: @x = "4,foo".split(",").map(*.say); say "end"; # on the other hand, you don't actually need to sink-all it, because it seems not lazy anyway 14:39
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '@x' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3<BOL>7⏏5@x = "4,foo".split(",").map(*.say); say
Voldenet m: my @x = "4,foo".split(",").map(*.say); say "end"; # on the other hand, you don't actually need to sink-all it, because it seems not lazy anyway
camelia 4
foo
end
Voldenet I truly wonder how one should properly evaluate the Seq for failures though 14:43
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Zoffix Voldenet: depends on how you want to handle them. If you want to just explode them, use `.self` method. It's just returns the self for all types, and for unhandled Failures it makes them blow up 16:07
m: my @u = ["a"].map: *.Int.self
camelia Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5a' (indicated by ⏏)
in whatevercode at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Zoffix Though generally that's not needed, since you'd usually be using those values someplace. The few caveats are where you're treating the list as a thing and Failures get lost (e.g. `say @u.elems` would not explode Failures inside @u) 16:09
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Zoffix m: sub make-failures { (Failure.new,) }; use fatal; my $x = make-failures; say 42 16:12
camelia 42
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Zoffix m: sub make-failures { BEGIN $*LANG.pragma("fatal").say; (+"a",) }; use fatal; my $x = make-failures; say 42 16:16
camelia (Mu)
42
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Zoffix OK makes sense. the `use fatal`/`try` is lexically scoped and the Failure gets made where it's not in effect. By the time they arrive back into fatalized land, they're already packed inside a list. 16:17
Where's it deciding whether to blow it up? 16:18
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raschipi What we were most mistified about is the fact that a block will blow it up but whateverblock won't. 16:22
Zoffix look like it sticks a p6fatalize op into places, which desugars to a sink 16:24
raschipi: a bug maybe? 16:25
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Zoffix tries a hackety hack 16:32
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Zoffix s/makes sense.+//; # wrong, cause the block/whatevercode where failure is made are in lexical scope of fatalization, I think 16:48
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teatime raschipi: they do both output a Seq also, forgot to mention checking that 16:49
maybe return value from block is considered "doing something" with the failure value?
if so, perhaps whateverable needs to do that too? 16:50
Zoffix yeah. on it 16:53
raschipi Right, but returning the failure shouldn't trigger it... 16:55
teatime raschipi: it feels like more than undef+info, it feels like a variable that may live a long life-time before blowing up your program at some unexpected later place. but I imagine I just don't understand it yet / need to work with it more 16:56
is there a pragma to make failures insta-fatal?
raschipi Well, if it was just Nil, it would do the same thing, yet it wouldn't tell you what went wrong...
scimon Looking at code-golf.io/ .... There are obviously some tricks I do not know. 16:57
Zoffix teatime: use fatal 16:58
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Zoffix teatime: or add a .self call on a value you want to explode if it's a failure 17:00
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teatime is that what .self is for, or is that more of a "hack"? 17:00
Zoffix teatime: .self returns the object itself. It deconts. It also blows up unhandled Failures 17:01
raschipi From the docs: "calling this method is a handy way to explosively filter out Failures" 17:02
Zoffix teatime: it's a "hack" only in a sense that calling most methods on Failures blows them up and here such a method is a no-op for regular objects, so unless it's a Failure, you just get your object as is
teatime k.
pochi is my understanding correct that a CATCH handler will only be called if the explosion happens inside a try?
Zoffix pochi: no. CATCH will be called even without any try. The try enabled fatal pragma 17:03
m: CATCH say 'meow'; die
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Missing block
at <tmp>:1
------> 3CATCH7⏏5 say 'meow'; die
expecting any of:
scoped block
Zoffix m: CATCH { say 'meow' }; die
camelia meow
Died
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Zoffix m: CATCH { default { say 'meow' } }; die # without `default` it sends the explosion further up
camelia meow
Zoffix well, without `default` or some other `when` thing 17:04
s/enabled/enables/;
pochi ok, but if the CATCH is inside a try, and the explosion happens outside?
Zoffix pochi: the outside won't have that CATCH applicable to it.
just as here: { { CATCH { ... } }; die } 17:05
pochi hm, in my case I know where the Failure can be made, but I don't really know when it will blow up
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Zoffix `use fatal` should blow 'em up 17:06
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Zoffix m: "a".map: {.Int}; say "meow"; 17:07
camelia meow
Zoffix m: use fatal; "a".map: {.Int}; say "meow";
camelia Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5a' (indicated by ⏏)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Zoffix Though I guess not in all cases
m: sub make-failures { (Failure.new,) }; use fatal; my $x = make-failures; say 42
camelia 42
raschipi Or think of it as a function returning an error value and treat the failure right after getting the results. 17:08
Letting the failure just be is a possibility but it's not mandatory.
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pochi btw, I would like to catch only that one error "base-10 number must begin ...", but I can't figure out the exception type 17:10
Zoffix m: try +"a"; say $!.^name
camelia X::Str::Numeric
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Zoffix m: try { CATCH { when X::Str::Numeric { say "the num stuff" } }; +"a"; } 17:11
camelia the num stuff
Zoffix m: try { CATCH { when X::Str::Numeric { say "the num stuff" } }; die "some other stuff" }
camelia some other stuff
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
pochi nice 17:12
Zoffix m: (+"a").exception.^name.say # another way to get the name. Failure.exception contains the exception the Failure would explode with 17:16
camelia X::Str::Numeric
raschipi m: (die "aaa").exception.^name.say 17:17
camelia aaa
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Zoffix that ain't a Failure 17:18
raschipi right
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Zoffix w00t. success in hackety hacking \o/ 17:26
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ryn1x . 17:33
Zoffix : 17:34
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Zoffix AlexDaniel: BTW t/spec/MISC/bug-coverage-stress.t consistently fails all the time and has been for a while. I guess not many devs notice it cause it's a stresstest... 17:35
AlexDaniel` yea I noticed that, but it felt weird because nobody else was complaining 17:36
now that you said it I see why…
Zoffix :)
AlexDaniel` ok: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1312 17:37
geekosaur I'd be surprised if there wasn't already a ticket 17:38
...but it'd be an old ticket because that flapper's been around since, uh, sometime before the GLR IIRC 17:39
oh, no, wrong stresstest
but yeh I'd bet all stresstests are ignored because they flap so much
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El_Che the on-off failures are pretty annoying when building on travis 17:42
Zoffix cpan@perlbuild4~/CPANPRC/rakudo (master)$ ./perl6 -e 'use fatal; "a".map: *.Int' 17:43
Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏a' (indicated by ⏏)
raschipi: ^ fix shipped
Zoffix & 17:44
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raschipi m: try { CATCH { default { say "hello"; } }; my @x = "4,foo".split(",").map: *.Int; } 17:45
camelia ( no output )
raschipi m: try { CATCH { default { say "hello"; } }; my @x = "4,foo".split(",").map: *.Int.self; } 17:46
camelia hello
17:46 ryn1x left
raschipi pochi ↑ 17:46
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orangebot Hello! 18:26
AlexDaniel hi!
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tbrowder AlexDaniel: is there any way to hook up jnthn’s debuggers to use on rakudo? 18:31
AlexDaniel tbrowder: I don't think so, but I don't really know 18:32
tbrowder: I've been doing printf debugging instead
18:32 geospeck left
tbrowder same, but it gets tiresome when the structure of some match objects is so complex. 18:33
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TimToady Voldenet: we usually spell an empty block as {;}, which won't create a spurious state variable as {$} does 18:44
mahafyi are there differences between the free and paid versions of thinkperl6 book? 18:45
teatime aha
pochi raschipi: thanks
stmuk . o O ( isn't there supposed to be *another* Perl 6 coming? ) 18:47
teatime every christmas? :)
or select christmases, anyway. 18:48
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orangebot Is there a way to introspect what can be passed to a class from something like `class Foo { has Int $.a }`? 18:55
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timotimo m: class Foo { has Int $.a }; say Foo.^attributes 19:02
camelia (Int $!a)
raschipi m: class Foo { has Int $.a }; Foo.new.^attributes
camelia ( no output )
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AlexDaniel raschipi: say 19:10
raschipi I know, but just above timo already did it. 19:11
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orangebot Thanks! 19:11
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dmaestro_ Here's another puzzler - what's happening here? (I really don't know) 20:42
m: my $v; { given 1 { $v = ++$ }; say ++$ } for ^5; say $v
camelia 1
2
3
4
5
1
dmaestro_ m: my $v; { { $v = ++$ }; say ++$ } for ^5; say $v
camelia 1
2
3
4
5
1
dmaestro_ m: my $v; { $v = ++$; say ++$ } for ^5; say $v
camelia 1
2
3
4
5
5
dmaestro_ The last is what I expect. How does the enclosing block affect the first ++$? 20:43
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AlexDaniel dmaestro_: maybe this? docs.perl6.org/language/traps#Usin...once_block 20:43
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virtualsue I've written my advent calendar post and scheduled it for Friday 20:44
moritz thanks virtualsue!
virtualsue if there is anyone here who can check it that would be nice
no problem 20:45
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AlexDaniel dmaestro_: tl;dr state variable goes out of scope, bye-bye state variable 20:45
virtualsue I'll be going on holiday tomorrow and i might not have internet access
moritz will do 20:46
perlpilot looks at virtualsue's post
20:46 eater left
moritz there seems to be something funny with the code example markup 20:47
virtualsue oh - i'll double check it
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moritz it renders everything starting from :RECURSE as a link or anchor or so 20:48
perlpilot and the very first line seems to be indented by one space too
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moritz :TAG<a> 20:49
dmaestro_ AlexDaniel: Thanks, that explains it. So the scope of $ is _just outside_ the block it is in ...
moritz probably needs some HTML escaping
virtualsue I can't figure out how to see that post again. I find WP quite a struggle to get on with. 20:51
moritz fixed it 20:52
virtualsue: perl6advent.wordpress.com/wp-admin...ction=edit is the edit link
AlexDaniel dmaestro_: to be honest I never really understood it properly. My hopes to understand it were lost when we had to change the behavior in some cases
dmaestro_: for example:
virtualsue thank you!
AlexDaniel c: 2015.12,2017.11 for ^5 { ‘hello’ ~~ /{say $++}/ }
committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦2015.12: «0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤» ¦2017.11: «0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤»
AlexDaniel dmaestro_: the current behavior is correct, but I see no way to feel it intuitively 20:53
perlpilot virtualsue: is there more expository text or just "I wrote a spider, here it is, conclusion?" (just making sure I'm not missing something) 20:54
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teatime AlexDaniel: ugh, I do not understand what that does 20:55
virtualsue you aren't missing anything. i may tweak it a bit more
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perlpilot ok, cool 20:56
teatime not even the state variable weirdness you were demonstrating, just the (list) for (seq) {block}
AlexDaniel teatime: 2015.12,2017.11 is part of the command syntax for committable 20:57
teatime oh lol
sorry
AlexDaniel teatime: basically asks it to run the same code on two revisions
yea I know it is confusing at times
but it's a shorthand for this
committable6: 2015.12,2017.11 for ^5 { ‘hello’ ~~ /{say $++}/ }
committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦2015.12: «0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤» ¦2017.11: «0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤»
20:58 leah2 left
AlexDaniel so it *has* to read it that way if we want it to understand messages starting with its nickname :) 20:58
though it gets even more confusing if you decide to use whitespace after the comma…
committable6: 2015.12, 2017.11 for ^5 { ‘hello’ ~~ /{say $++}/ }
committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦2015.12: «0␤1␤2␤3␤4␤» ¦2017.11: «0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤»
AlexDaniel teatime: and then, /{…}/ is just a code block in a regex 20:59
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teatime AlexDaniel: I was just trying to read it as perl6 code, is all 21:03
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AlexDaniel m: 2015.12,2017.11: for ^5 { ‘hello’ ~~ /{say $++}/ } 21:04
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Confused
at <tmp>:1
------> 032015.12,2017.11:7⏏5 for ^5 { ‘hello’ ~~ /{say $++}/ }
expecting any of:
colon pair
AlexDaniel aww
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Slayerk Is there any way to specify how slurp works? 21:42
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teatime can you be more specific? 21:43
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Slayerk teatime: I'm trying to get spaces in the .txt file to mean new items in the array 21:56
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AlexDaniel Slayerk: maybe then ‘myfile’.IO.words ? 21:57
teatime yeah why not ^^, or more generally slurp → split 21:58
AlexDaniel you don't have to slurp to use split 21:59
teatime AlexDaniel: can you do something like, for .words in $blah.lines
like what's a clean/idiomatic/short way to do that nested loop
one per line and one per word 22:00
22:00 Slyerk joined, Cabanossi left
Slyerk Got disconnected and then while I was disconnected someone connected using my original name... 22:00
AlexDaniel this is probably ok: for $blah.lines».words { … } 22:01
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AlexDaniel Slyerk: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-12-13#i_15573939 22:01
teatime interesting
does the race-y nature of » do anything weird there
like trying to access lines out of order
Slyerk Ah, thanks 22:02
AlexDaniel teatime: it has the right to do the splitting in parallel, but you'll be iterating it sequentially like normal
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tamva Hallo 22:03
So, I'm wondering what the right way is to determine whether an "is default" attribute is set to it's default value 22:05
Related to this, how does "is default" work with array containers?
jnthn m: my $x is default(42); say $x === $x.VAR.default; $x = 100; say $x === $x.VAR.default 22:07
yoleaux 14:28Z <tbrowder> jnthn: inside rakudo/src/Perl6/Pod.nqp, sub make_config, is it possible to dump to QAST, reform the QAST as desired, and inject it back as a final, serialized %config hash?
camelia True
False
yoleaux 14:52Z <tbrowder> jnthn: please disregard last question
19:18Z <tbrowder> jnthn: is there any way to tie your grammar debuggers into the rakudo compiler?
jnthn .tell tbrowder No, though there is a --rxtrace option that you can pass to the compiler
yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to tbrowder.
jnthn An Array is a collection of Scalar containers (unless you use binding), and all the Scalar containers in an Array share a descriptor, and thus share the default value. 22:08
tamva Ah, OK... I think that clears up my confusion. 22:11
Thank you.
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Ulti just did a chunk of the 16th post, some nice graphs! perl6advent.files.wordpress.com/20...ations.png 22:16
delicious jit frames thanks to the work landing in the summer :D <3
I need to advocate a simple text output for --profile too :P 22:17
I feel slightly norty using pandas and python for the plotting :Z but it was just a bit too much effort to improve SVG Plot enough to do all this nicely 22:18
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Morfent i'm running into trouble with locales for a C library i'm creating binds for 23:15
specificaly functions that convert utf8 and the like to other formats 23:16
s/formats/encodings 23:17
has anyone written code dealing with encodings and nativecall? 23:18
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Zoffix Morfent: I haven't, but the nativecall doc mentions `is encoded` trait for strings. Maybe that is it? docs.perl6.org/language/nativecall 23:23
bottom of this section: docs.perl6.org/language/nativecall...ing_Values
Morfent that's not the problem i'm running into 23:25
gimme a minute
Zoffix I wouldn't know the answer :) There are a couple of NativeCall modules in ecosystem (NativeHelpers::Blob / NativeHelpers::CBuffer ); maybe they can help: modules.perl6.org/search/?q=nativecall 23:30
\o
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Morfent possibly 23:36
i'll take a look at thoes
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geekosaur you might be running into moarvm not actually doing locales currently 23:45
like you have to tell it latin-1 instead of e.g. en_US.ISO8859-1
Morfent that sounds like my issue
how come moarvm doesn't support locales? 23:48
that sounds like a project i could work on so it can have that support 23:50
lizmat Morfent++ 23:52
++Morfent rather :-)
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geekosaur nobody's written it and there's probably "fun" involved in getting it to work on both unixlikes and native msvc 23:53
MasterDuke m: say
camelia 5===SORRY!5===
Argument to "say" seems to be malformed
at <tmp>:1
------> 3say7⏏5<EOL>
Other potential difficulties:
Unsupported use of bare "say"; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant to call it as a method on $_, or use an …
tyil say I want to install a p6 app through my package manager portage, which allows me to run code after installation finised, is there a way to generate all the precomp files the application would make on its first run, to speed up the first time the user would actually run the application
MasterDuke m: say()
camelia
tyil m: say; 23:54
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unsupported use of bare "say"; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant to call it as a method on $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument, or use &say to refer to the function as a noun
at <tmp>:1…
tyil hmm
23:54 rgrau joined
geekosaur (I wish you luck consistently mapping Unix locales to Windows code pages) 23:55
...and back 23:56
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Morfent this is the code that's driving me nuts hastebin.com/onacihomuz.rb 23:57
* hastebin.com/eralujucoj.rb 23:58
i might need to learn lldm and deguf wtf's causing this

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