»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 May 2018.
00:08 raschipi left 00:15 markoong left
ingy realizes he hasn't updated github.com/acmeism/RosettaCodeData in 9 months 00:15
usually takes me an hour or so to fix the accumulated wiki errors that crash the crawler... 00:16
timotimo haha, ouch
ingy just little sloppy errors. usually I fix the wiki pages. once in a whiile I tweak the crawler. 00:17
I might do that tonight
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ingy timotimo: I just talked a friend into pairing on the RosettaCodeData update tonight :) 00:48
timotimo that sounds like fun!
ingy should go faster that way
oh yeah? maybe I'll talk you into it next time. :) 00:49
timotimo i'm hoping more for in-person pair programming, actually. i reckon i'm rather far from you at the moment :)
ingy where are you?
timotimo germany
ingy where? 00:50
timotimo i seem to recall you were going to a TPC?
karlsruhe
ingy yeah, but I'm thinking about germany after yapc::eu
most of my favorite pairs are there :)
timotimo .o( pairs of feet ) 00:51
ingy I just finished pairing with tobs, who is from .de
ah, one of my favorite yaml hackers is from stuttgart 00:52
I waas hoping to get there to see him 00:53
and tinita++ is working in heidelberg now, iirc 00:54
and not far from lizmat++ 00:57
and ribasushi ?
timotimo oh, i believe i saw ribasushi at the GPN18, but I was too shy&awkward to approach :(
ingy heh
ribasushi is fantastic 00:58
I hope you aren't too shy to hack with me if I make it out there
timotimo i've spoken to him before, not sure when that was, but it was most likely a GPW, SPW, or APW.
ingy 2001 was my last GPW 00:59
:)
predates #perl6
iirc I started this channel in Dec 2005 01:00
or thereabouts
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ingy after audreyt++ told me she had just hacked together a perl6 in haskell :D 01:00
I'm really glad I didn't choose irc.perl.org for it 01:01
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timotimo wakelift.de/p/396c9d54-2ad1-4007-a...05bb9dd7a/ - i'd appreciate a bit of proofreading for my new blog post 01:09
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timotimo (maybe press F5 if the end looks cut off) 01:10
ingy *click* 01:11
i'll have to read it in a bit... 01:15
timotimo i might actually go sleep and review it again in the morning before i post it 01:17
ingy does your irc stay connected? 01:18
timotimo yup
ingy I'll message you if I have any thoughts
timotimo thank you kindly
ingy sleep well
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timotimo haven't had good sleep in a while ;( 01:19
but thank you! 01:21
i had to quickly go AFK just after i wrote that %)
i'm not sure if it's sleep time for you any time soon, but good night to you too, ingy :) 01:24
ingy :D 01:28
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asdfgh It's pretty exciting that we have an O'Reilly book coming for Perl6 this summer 01:43
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MasterDuke timotimo: "mistery" 01:44
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MasterDuke good post 01:44
ingy s/mistery/misery/ 01:45
maybe mistery == mystery | misery 01:46
I might start saying "mistery solved" more often 01:47
MasterDuke maybe a mistery is a place where one can go to get misted 01:48
ingy Elliott Smith has the song Miss Misery. Ingy döt Net is Mister Mistery.
MasterDuke like they have at stadiums and amusement parks and such
Juerd benjikun: Yes, but did you know there are several other Perl 6 books already available? 01:49
benjikun Yeah, I know
Maybe having more books under O'Reilly will gather more attention for Perl6, though
ingy benjikun: what's the animal?
I thought books went out of style in at the end of the last millenium... 01:50
benjikun Butterfly
ingy a giant one? 01:51
benjikun www.learningperl6.com/images/cover.png
I'm no butterfly expert, but it looks fairly large to me
ingy Camelia would smoke that poor little creature 01:52
without even noticing
bdfoy 01:53
benjikun lol
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timotimo so while i was trying and failing to fall asleep, it occured to me that perhaps examples.perl6.org ought to be upgraded one or two steps for the book release user influx 02:48
1) maybe put tags on examples, 2) make examples immediately runnable in glot.io or similar services, 3) perhaps put dates of creation on our examples more prominently, so Very Old examples stand out as "maybe not the best thing to look at", 4) maybe put a huge portion of rosettacode examples up on that site; currently we have only 12 02:50
also, do something about the top bar with the tabs; i have my browser set to 150% zoom by default, and it wraps into two lines, which is kinda weird :) 02:51
on top of that, have a "try in your browser" page on perl6.org, with a prominent way to find it from the perl6.org front page 02:52
maybe give the examples at the bottom a button that evals it on glot.io or similar 02:53
huggable: try
huggable timotimo, tio.run/#perl6 glot.io/new/perl6 f.perlbot.pl/#perl6 ideone.com/ mybinder.org/v2/gh/bduggan/p6-jupy...orld.ipynb
timotimo ugh, we should probably have a much shorter link for the last one 02:54
also, if we run all the examples through --target=ast we can surely have lists of example programs that use any given thing in the doc.perl6.org site and we could make them discoverable that way? 02:56
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benjikun timotimo: What do you think about having the "try it in your browser" type thing linked or embedded on the frontpage of perl6.org like how golang/dart/rust has 03:16
timotimo i don't know how golang/dart/rust have it, but yes!
benjikun golang.org/ 03:17
Something like this
or we could have a link next to the examples shown on perl6.org that says something along the lines of "try it for yourself"
timotimo wow, that is extremely prominent
benjikun mhm 03:18
timotimo hm, i wonder if people would appreciate being able to turn off syntax highlighting on our sites 03:21
benjikun perhaps 03:24
timotimo github.com/perl6/user-experience/issues/24 - please feel very free to edit my potentially incoherent rambling into something that makes more sense
also, i kind of want to build a little course based on mybinder.org for people new to perl6, maybe as a screencast (because i've kind of always wanted to make screencasts) 03:25
benjikun The example page shouldn't list the examples in the "File", "Title", "Author" tables imo
timotimo being able to asynchronously communicate with html/js that you also put into the notebooks is a feature with a *lot* of potential in my eyes
benjikun hm 03:27
timotimo did you see that? bduggan++ had a presentation about it and it kind of blew my mind
benjikun No, I didn't 03:28
Could I snatch a link from ya
timotimo www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSZV8IXIsM4
benjikun ty
timotimo i'll give sleeping another try ... seeya! 03:31
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benjikun night night 03:33
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u-ou what's perl 6 for open(my $fh, 'foo | bar | moo |');? 05:08
El_Che I don't use that often with open, but with run 05:13
here is an example using async: docs.perl6.org/type/Proc::Async (grep on piping)
u-ou ty 05:14
El_Che shell understand piping with the commands, but that's not what you're asking 05:15
stick around, once people wake up you'll get an answer closer to the perl5 example 05:16
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sarna hey, I've heard perl6 is gonna get an alias in 6.d 07:51
what is it gonna be? Diwali?
moritz most likely, yes 07:54
lookatme IDK :)
a kind of butterfly ? 07:55
I've heard that long time ago
lizmat en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diwali
sarna will it be different for every edition? like, Diwali - 6.d, ?? - 6.e ? or Diwali all the way 07:56
lookatme hmm, yeah, Diwali is a festival
I prefer the name of butterfly :)
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sarna "festival of lights" is a beautiful name for a programming language imo 07:57
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AlexDaniel moritz: what? 08:03
where is that info coming from? 08:04
moritz old #perl6 lore
AlexDaniel that “Diwali” is even proposed as an alias
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AlexDaniel definitely not here github.com/perl6/6.d-prep/blob/mas...ded-naming 08:05
El_Che The alias discussion is not about the compiler version
more a marketing thing
AlexDaniel and who is talking about the compiler version?
El_Che something to stay and not change with every compiler spec bump
AlexDaniel ok look… let's deconfuse this
rakudo compiler versions are 2018.02, 2018.03, 2018.03, etc. 08:06
*language* has its own releases: v6.c (Christmas), v6.d (Diwali), etc.
these are versions, but the language itself is Perl 6
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AlexDaniel now, there's also a discussion on whether language “Perl 6” should have an alias, or simply another name 08:07
it could be “6lang” or “psix” or something else
but not “Diwali”, at least I don't remember anyone proposing that. And in fact, that would confuse things ever more
and there's no single clear candidate at the moment 08:09
sarna: does that make sense? ↑
also I noticed that I wrote 2018.03 twice, heh :)
sarna AlexDaniel: yes, thanks :) 08:10
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I've always liked Þerl 08:11
AlexDaniel u: Þ
unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+00DE LATIN CAPITAL LETTER THORN [Lu] (Þ)
AlexDaniel jmerelo: oh ye, I remember that. Therl :) 08:12
lookatme not easy to type
sarna 🅱️erl so we're hip and trendy
jmerelo AlexDaniel: It looks like a P, but better (because it's Icelandic, and everything in Iceland is better), it's pronounceable (th), makes for a nice extension (.Þ), and, well, it's just cool
AlexDaniel lookatme: Therl would be the ascii alternative I guess 08:13
jmerelo sarna: that's ver cool to.
AlexDaniel: right
AlexDaniel in fact, my compose key already gives þ for compose t h
lookatme Therl ? hmm
AlexDaniel u: Þþ
unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+00DE LATIN CAPITAL LETTER THORN [Lu] (Þ)
AlexDaniel, U+00FE LATIN SMALL LETTER THORN [Ll] (þ)
lookatme :) sixlang 08:14
sarna psix looks cute 08:15
lookatme it looks like posix :)
El_Che good morning
sarna well, it kinda fits 08:16
lookatme afternoon here :)
sarna "apsik" is the sneezing onomatopoeia in Polish
it fits too
AlexDaniel sarna: psix a lot of people like, for some reason. … but the moment it was proposed we've seen “pee sex” jokes going around immediately… not cool
sarna AlexDaniel: oh well
AlexDaniel: on the other hand, "Python".. 08:17
lookatme Python6 :)
sarna 6nake
"6naked", well it's tainted again 08:18
I'm all in for Camelia then
cute, references Perl, can't make dirty jokes about it 08:19
lookatme Write a camelia robot using something such as AI :) 08:20
AlexDaniel say ∞
evalable6 Inf
AlexDaniel
.oO( look, it's intelligent )
oh oops, wrong bot 08:21
sarna we could also just name it the butterfly emoji 08:22
AlexDaniel btw unicode.org/consortium/adopted-characters.html
ctrl+f “Perl 6” 08:23
sarna is not sure if he should say "we" because is still a noob
jmerelo sarna: thumbs up for butterfly emoji
jmerelo encourages sarna to be "we". We are all we.
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AlexDaniel weeeeee \o/ 08:23
sarna AlexDaniel: woohoo 08:24
jmerelo: double woohoo
AlexDaniel jmerelo: btw I'm assuming we is up for the upcoming squashathon?
:) 08:27
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jmerelo AlexDaniel: of course; but I'm goingo to be in Arnhem for the Netherlands workshop, also travelling there and back. 10:11
AlexDaniel: I'll try to find people helping, too...
AlexDaniel sounds awesome
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I'll try to set up some issues that can be addressed easily
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jmerelo Well, and Squashable just bailed out on us... 10:34
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AlexDaniel squashable6: when will you stop doing that? 10:38
squashable6 AlexDaniel, I cannot recognize this command. See wiki for some examples: github.com/perl6/whateverable/wiki/Squashable
AlexDaniel squashable6: when? 10:39
squashable6 AlexDaniel, I cannot recognize this command. See wiki for some examples: github.com/perl6/whateverable/wiki/Squashable
AlexDaniel WHEN
squashable6: when 10:40
squashable6 AlexDaniel, Next SQUASHathon in 20 days and ≈23 hours (2018-07-07 UTC-12⌁UTC+14). See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Mont...Squash-Day
AlexDaniel :S
jmerelo :-)
squashable6: welcome back!
squashable6 jmerelo, I cannot recognize this command. See wiki for some examples: github.com/perl6/whateverable/wiki/Squashable
AlexDaniel jmerelo: what should I do with github.com/perl6/whateverable/pull/329 ? 10:49
merge it first and then docs will materialize?
or wait for the docs first because otherwise they won't ever… :)
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I'll try to do them... 10:50
AlexDaniel: to tell you the truth, I didn't have time to test it extensively
So let me check and document it, probably some problem will arise and I'll have to do some stuff.
Sorry about that...
AlexDaniel jmerelo: actually, now that I think about it, github.com/perl6/whateverable/issues/288 does not need docker 10:51
or what was the issue…
the issue was that it is reaaaally sloooow?
hmm…
jmerelo AlexDaniel: yep. And some parts not really testable... 10:52
AlexDaniel but that's ok
according to github.com/perl6/whateverable/issues/122
jmerelo Docker will also help with deployment...
AlexDaniel bisectable6, committable6, evalable6, unicodable6, notable6 and benchable6 are testable! 10:53
bisectable6 AlexDaniel, On both starting points (old=2015.12 new=6439415) the exit code is 1 and the output is identical as well
AlexDaniel, gist.github.com/a68a29f7a8ce42266e...4b40264c0b
AlexDaniel facepalms
jmerelo Yep, but docker can also help with that. Download container, fire it up, you've got bot running.
AlexDaniel these are the main bots pretty much, we shouldn't worry too much about others
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jmerelo AlexDaniel: OK, I'll test them... 10:54
AlexDaniel jmerelo: but you can also `zef install --deps-only .` and then run any test file?
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AlexDaniel fwiw I'm all for dockerizing, just saying that it's not a blocker 10:56
although… maybe it'll help with travis time limits
if no time is spent on building rakudo and modules, then more time is available for running tests
jmerelo AlexDaniel: of course. It will shave 15 minutes off travis, that's it. 10:57
If that's what it takes, OK. If travis takes > 65 minutes, well... 10:58
AlexDaniel has no idea what kind of machines travis is using
“When a job on a public repository takes longer than 50 minutes.” 10:59
I think we can make it in 50 minutes
jmerelo AlexDaniel: we can at least give it a try :-) 11:00
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sarna can I somehow store subroutines in a collection? 11:44
sena_kun m: sub foo() { 'foo'.say }; sub bar() {}; my @a = (&foo, &bar); @a[0](); 11:46
camelia foo
sena_kun sarna, ^ `&` sigil is handy for referring to callable things. 11:47
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sarna sena_kun: sweet, thank you :) 11:57
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masak m: sub foo() { say 'foo' }; sub bar() {}; my @a = &foo, &bar; fn given my &fn = @a[0] 11:59
camelia foo
masak eliminated two sets of parentheses ;)
sena_kun m: sub foo { say 'foo' }; sub bar {}; my @a = &foo, &bar; fn given my &fn = @a[0]; 12:00
camelia foo
sena_kun two more. :)
masak .oO( paroints-free style ) 12:03
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Geth doc: 5f185ca01f | (JJ Merelo)++ | 3 files
Adds explanation of EVAL

With possible errors that can be found there. This would close #2099. If the new text is not satisfactory, please feel free to reopen specifying what's the part of the problem it does not solve.		 13:43
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timotimo i published my blog post, this time with added cat picture (the one most of you have already seen): wakelift.de/2018/06/15/no-major-breakthroughs/ 13:48
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Geth doc: 4c9e209c98 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Programs/01-debugging.pod6
Adds information on perl6-debug-m to the debugging document

Since this is not really part of the language, I think it's better to defer to the particular repo for instructions and somesuch. If no one is against, it closes #1060		 13:55
jmerelo timotimo: cat pictures are always the best to convey the message
timotimo yes. 13:59
jmerelo timotimo++ nice entry. Thanks for sharing. 14:01
timotimo thanks for appreciating
Ulti timotimo: nice post 14:11
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rabbit_ Does anyone know of an ffmpeg wrapper for perl6? 14:26
sena_kun rabbit_, modules.perl6.org/search/?q=ffmpeg <- 14:28
so seems like not.
rabbit_ 0 results :/
sena_kun you always can try to write one. :)
rabbit_ github.com/vitduck/FFmpeg-Transcoder 14:29
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sena_kun hmm, Oct 2016. 14:29
probably the module wants some love. 14:30
rabbit_ there should be a way to run this in perl6 right? 14:35
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sena_kun rabbit_, the module you linked? 14:36
rabbit_ yes
sena_kun I think yes, if nothing is broken there.
rabbit_ Okay. Sounds promising :) 14:37
sena_kun rabbit_, huh, stop, it actually a Perl module. Not sure why github thinks 30% is Perl 6. 14:38
buggable New CPAN upload: DBIx-NamedQueries-0.0.3.tar.gz by MZIESCHA modules.perl6.org/dist/DBIx::NamedQ...n:MZIESCHA 14:45
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timotimo that module seems to use the ffmpeg commandline executable, maybe you'll want to bind libav{device,filter,format,codec,resample,util} and friends with NativeCall instead? 14:52
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hoelzro sarna, El_Che: I just fired up the 2018.04.1 docker image on my Arch box - Linenoise loads ok =( 14:58
I wish I had a VM image that I could work off of that had this issue
sarna_ hmmm, that's /really/ weird 14:59
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hoelzro I know! 15:02
sarna_ by the way, do you not use hyphens in package names? 15:03
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sarna_ I've tried to create an app via mi6 and it, well, broke the name in two 15:03
hoelzro I've tried Ubuntu 16.04 on AWS, Ubuntu 18.04 on VirtualBox, my Arch box, and the 2018.04.1 docker image
I suppose I should try OpenBSD
El_Che hoelzro: wanted to look at it today, but didn't find the time 15:05
sarna_ > my constant LIBLINENOISE = %?RESOURCES<libraries/linenoise>.Str; - maybe that's the Nil that's used in Str context? 15:06
El_Che the latest ubuntu has a "minimal" install, in the case something is missing at runtime
hoelzro sarna, El_Che: that's a good point
I would bet that's it
I wonder if the linenoise library is linking against something that isn't available
sarna_ probably 15:07
hoelzro but you'd think that it would still be in %?RESOURCES...
El_Che which seems to be an empty key
timotimo oh hey hoelzro
hoelzro hey timotimo! how's it going? 15:08
timotimo something's telling me you might be interested in bduggan's presentation on perl 6 on the jupyter notebook
oh i've been better. how about you?
hoelzro I've been sick all week, but other than that, pretty good
my wife and I are expecting a baby soon, so that's exciting 15:09
I would definitely be interested in that presentation!
timotimo www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSZV8IXIsM4
wow, congrats
hoelzro thanks! 15:10
sarna_ congrats hoelzro!
hoelzro thanks sarna_ !
sarna_ code.activestate.com/lists/activeperl/21354/ - is it true for perl6? 15:11
geekosaur perl 6 is fine with hyphens. And whoever wrote that is short just a bit of history, among other things 15:12
COBOL supported dashes. 15:13
there's admittedly not many that do, but perl 6 definitely does
sena_kun m: unit module My-Nice-R'lyeh;
camelia ( no output )
geekosaur there's a small number of others, but most folks took the lazy way out of parsing identifiers vs. expressions
timotimo when I die, please scatter my dashes on Io.
raschipi Lisp also supports it. 15:14
sarna_ oh well 15:15
because I'm making a connect four game for the command line as an exercise
and my tool created a App::connect::four project
El_Che cheers, hoelzro 15:17
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El_Che the lower case looks weird 15:17
geekosaur m: unit module App::Connect-Four; 15:18
camelia ( no output )
El_Che m: unit module App::ConnectFour; 15:19
camelia ( no output )
sarna_ El_Che: do you use uppercase for this? heck, I could really use a style guide
hoelzro El_Che: thanks!
geekosaur mixed case is a good idea because all the same case tends to mean pragma
but it's all one identifier (if not, it's a bug somewhere) so "App::" covers that 15:20
still, as style goes mixed case is preferred
sarna_ 'App::ConnectFour' would be alright? how to name my github repo?
El_Che app-connectfour, AppConnectFour, p6-app-connectfour, etc 15:22
many possiilitie
s:)
sarna_ oh well, thanks 15:23
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El_Che I tend to go for the first style 15:23
sarna_ it looks the best imo 15:24
El_Che the last is handy if you want to write the implementation in different languages
sarna_ yeah 15:25
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El_Che or if you're binding a lib it makes sens 15:26
e
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p6noob Arrays are passed by reference to subs which allows the sub to alter their contents. Is there a sub signature that promises the caller the array will not be altered. Can perl6 enforce such a restriction on a sub? 15:31
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jnthn is copy 15:32
m: sub foo(@a is copy) { @a[1]++ }; my @x = 1..5; foo(@x); say @x
camelia [1 2 3 4 5]
p6noob jnthn, makes sense. is it okay performance wise to make a copy? maybe it's a lazy copy? 15:33
jnthn Depends how big the array is. Also it can't really be very lazy since that also risks action at a distance. 15:34
p6noob jnthn: yeah, would be nice to have the "readonly" attribute work to do the same thing without needing a copy
jnthn Yes, but how would that actually work? 15:35
p6noob but it seems to only protect the reference itself, not the contents.
El_Che can binding do something there?
p6noob jnthn, i don't know. 15:36
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geekosaur no, because you're binding to the container for the array, not the containers within it 15:36
which is why "is copy" is the only real option
El_Che geekosaur: thx 15:37
p6noob okay.. thanks for the help.
sarna_ what if the array was a const? would I be able to change stuff within it?
geekosaur if the array itself is constructed to not have r/w containers, you can't chaneg it 15:38
although I think then you don;t have an array, you have a list?
or a seq
sarna_ oh 15:39
jnthn Yes, a List can't be modified
Geth doc: 427002ee95 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod6
fix typo
doc: fc5de43ab3 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Language/5to6-nutshell.pod6
remove extra .
synopsebot_ Link: doc.perl6.org/language/5to6-nutshell
jnthn Well, unless it contains mutable things inside of it of course :)
El_Che a list o constants 15:40
is copy is looking good :)
jnthn In theory we could have some kind of "wrap the array up in something that doesn't let you modify it"
El_Che an object
it's already there
jnthn Well, I meant as something a signature could declaratively do, and that'd intercept the AT-POS and so on 15:41
El_Che is ro
sarna_ wrap it in an object that has only getters?
jnthn But that brings its own problems. For one, it isn't the same type that was passed.
El_Che yes, that was what I was thinking. The array should be a private attribute
sarna_ ah, right
jnthn And yes, doing good OO design (and following the tell-don't-ask principle) can also help :) 15:42
Trouble is a lot of OO doesn't help in this regard at all because it has a load of getters/setters, so there's no real data hiding. 15:43
El_Che protcting against casual changes is often enough
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jnthn Can be. If using an object boundary as a concurrency control boundary, however, one needs to be very strict on these things. :) 15:45
El_Che damned concurrency be 15:46
jnthn I guess I probably spend more time caring about concurrency than many folks need to. :) 15:48
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sarna concurrency needs to be cared about, as it's really tricky to get right :) 16:05
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Geth doc/toggle-able-syntax-highlighting: cd103a7b2e | (Timo Paulssen)++ | assets/js/main.js
add a "colors off" button to code sections

for people who can't stand syntax highlighting for any reason.
It will remember the choice in sessionStorage, just like debug mode, and will remove colors on page load if the setting was turned on. Restoring colors is also possible by just clicking the button again.		 16:52
doc: timo++ created pull request #2100:
add a "colors off" button to code sections		 16:53
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jmerelo o/ 17:12
raschipi \o 17:15
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raschipi This reminds me of why Perl 6 exists and exactly why it's a nice language: blogs.perl.org/users/toby_inkster/2...-bool.html 17:28
Tiny little inconsistencies all around. 17:29
jmerelo A little question on extended identifiers in StackOverflow stackoverflow.com/questions/508802...-variables 17:32
There's no documentation on them, either. So with a little help from everyone and the answers, we will be able to create a section on extended identifiers. 17:33
Also bdfoy is asking stackoverflow.com/questions/508797...n-matching 17:34
jmerelo goes AFK to watch Portugal-Spain O/
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hoelzro sarna, El_Che: is there by chance anything odd about the filesystem(s) you're using? 18:23
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El_Che ext4 18:41
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robertle very odd ;) 18:42
hoelzro El_Che: do you have any of the old build directories for linenoise under ~/.zef? 18:43
El_Che yes (or I can create one) 18:44
ah
I have a rakudo image for 2018.04.
1
hoelzro I'm wondering if resources/libraries/liblinenoise.* exists in those dirs 18:45
El_Che hoelzro: whoch dir is it? 18:46
sources?
dist?
hoelzro hmm...the output from the issue on GH says tmp - which means things don't look good =/ 18:47
El_Che hoelzro: installing it in docker
kjk On docs.perl6.org, what is the logic that shows a method as a routine in type's documentation or vice versa? For example, there's a substr sub, but it's also a method of Str; however, in the Str type's documentation it's shown under the heading of "routine substr" rather than "method substr" 18:49
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El_Che hoelzro: creating a container for ubuntu 18.04 + rakudo 2018.05 18:50
in the meantime tried to install it on my desktop 18:51
Use of Nil in string context
in block at home#sources/0BDF8C54D33921FEA066491D8D13C96A7CB144B9 (Linenoise) line 15
moritz kjk: routine is the common ancestor of method and sub
m: say Sub.^mro 18:52
camelia ((Sub) (Routine) (Block) (Code) (Any) (Mu))
moritz m: say Method.^mro
camelia ((Method) (Routine) (Block) (Code) (Any) (Mu))
El_Che like sarna says, it's the line with my constant LIBLINENOISE = %?RESOURCES<libraries/linenoise>.Str;
hoelzro wth 18:53
El_Che $ perl6 -e 'say %?RESOURCES<libraries/linenoise>'
hoelzro El_Che: so you spun up a docker container with 18.04, and then built rakudo 2018.05 in that?
El_Che Nil
the error is from my desktop
the container is building
I will upload it so you can run it yourself if the error occurs 18:54
hoelzro that would be great!
El_Che ok, it's built, let's try to install Linenoise
hoelzro where are libraries getting installed for you?
El_Che root in /opt/rakudo-pkg, user in .perl6 18:55
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hoelzro hmm...I wonder if that has something to do with it 18:56
look for a file named 91857A0CE92503F53D56DEBB6F633402878D0FF0 in those dirs
El_Che ~/.perl6$ find . -name 91857A0CE92503F53D56DEBB6F633402878D0FF0
./dist/91857A0CE92503F53D56DEBB6F633402878D0FF0
./short/0008C6C3077BB1943C736587EB1404E59CD84E70/91857A0CE92503F53D56DEBB6F633402878D0FF0
kjk moritz: right. So, does it mean that if a method also has a sub version of it then in the doc it will be under the "routine ..." heading?
hoelzro El_Che: could you paste the one under dist/ ? 18:57
moritz kjk: yes. At least that's the way I do it when writing docs :-) 18:58
El_Che hoelzro: paste.ubuntu.com/p/XRvmvGf84G/
damn it 18:59
Linenoise install fine in the container
Readline is already installed
hoelzro hmm...so one interesting thing that *shouldn't* matter is that my "files" key in my version of that comes after my "resources" key
El_Che: could you also look for 323767E89F2D0CBE48797015570799E56F6F4FE5.so ? 19:00
El_Che ldd it 19:01
?
paste.ubuntu.com/p/hv7RrpxkyM/
should it link to linenoise?
hoelzro no - linenoise should be bundled in there 19:02
El_Che install seems to work on the container
hoelzro wth 19:03
kjk moritz: thanks, good to know. Is there some kind of automatic generation of doc templates for each routine, so that we know what's documented and what's not, and just need to fill in the doc in a generated skeleton .pod file or something
El_Che I could nuke ~/.perl6 and then my rakudo install
hoelzro I'm tempted to say "go for it", but I don't want to lose this environment 19:04
I wonder if it has something to do with a global install under /opt and modules under ~/.perl6... 19:05
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El_Che the error when the repl is run is weird: I ran into a problem while trying to set up Linenoise: Must specify something as a path: did you mean '.' for the current directory? 19:05
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El_Che hoelzro: the only module in /opt is zef 19:06
sarna hoelzro: yes! iirc openSUSE doesn't use ext4, I'll tell you in 10 minutes though
hoelzro I'm guessing it's because the path to the .so is Nil, so the nativecall loader is doing what it can with that
El_Che and it's not the same zef as the one installing Linenoise in ~/.perl6
hoelzro sarna: sounds good
oh, that's interesting
El_Che $ which zef 19:07
/home/claudio/.perl6/bin/zef
moritz kjk: iirc there's a tool that creates a new, mostly empty pod file for a type, but it's not pre-filled with all methods
hoelzro sarna: when you have a chance, could you look for those files El_Che and I were talking about above?
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sarna hoelzro: could you please specify? I've been offline for a while 19:08
hoelzro sure - I would like to see if you have 91857A0CE92503F53D56DEBB6F633402878D0FF0 somewhere in your modules directory
El_Che hoelzro: f....hell 19:09
$ sudo PATH=/opt/rakudo-pkg/bin:$PATH /opt/rakudo-pkg/bin/zef install Linenoise
...
===> Installing: Linenoise:ver<0.1.1>:auth<Rob Hoelz>
(ok)
hoelzro interesting... 19:10
El_Che but perl6 repl is still broken
probably because using the local one
let me fix that
hoelzro yeah
El_Che nope 19:11
no install errors, but still broken
hoelzro interesting
El_Che I ran into a problem while trying to set up Linenoise: Must specify something as a path: did you mean '.' for the current directory?
hoelzro well, I'm thinking it has something to do with a global install of Perl 6 (and potentially zef) and a local install of Linenoise 19:12
El_Che the undef value may be a red herring
hoelzro so I'm going to start sleuthing in that direction
El_Che the user's zef is installed like this: /opt/rakudo-pkg/bin/zef --install-to=home install zef 19:13
nothing fancy
hoelzro I'm going to go offline for a bit - need to walk the dog and take a nap to try and beat this cold
El_Che get better, thx for your time!
hoelzro thanks for helping me walk through this issue!
El_Che don't mention it 19:14
sarna hoelzro: welp, my system broke :') "you're in emergency mode" 19:16
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sarna ah, you've fixed it! great, thank you for taking your time :D 19:22
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benjikun timotimo: Want to work on improving examples.perl6.org today? 20:42
timotimo do you have good ideas? 20:47
there wasn't yet a reaction to my issue in the user-experience repo 20:49
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ĥelp my cat is puting her paws on the keyboard 20:50
benjikun lol
cute
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benjikun Well, here's the class for the highlighting on the frontpage of perl6.org: github.com/perl6/perl6.org/blob/ma...e.css#L120 20:51
timotimo too adorable to make her readjust her lie-down position
<!-- Error while syntax highlighting this piece of code: No such symbol 'Text::VimColour' -->
well that souds easy to fix 20:52
benjikun Do you think we need to make it somehow use Text::VimColour on examples.perl6.org automatically when adding examples 20:54
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benjikun Otherwise everyone who adds an example will have to manually highlight their code bits 20:55
timotimo i think the only problem is that it's not yet installed on the machine that builds the website perhaps?
benjikun hrm 20:56
timotimo oh, i have a suspicion 20:59
benjikun github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/bl...y.pm6#L193
timotimo github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/bl...y.pm6#L192 21:00
yes
benjikun so you were right?
Text::VimColour isn't installed
timotimo it is installed
the conditional require mechanics haven't been updated to the change, i think? 21:01
i.e. lexical require makes Text::VimColour only available inside the curly braces of the try?
benjikun oh wow 21:02
oof
timotimo rakudo.org/2017/03/18/lexical-requi...rade-info/ - that's the post about it
benjikun seems fairly easy to fix 21:04
timotimo i'm trying it out locally now
the docs page uses a different mechanism for syntax highlighting, btw. perhaps that should be ported over, too.
hum, not entirely sure why it suddenly complains about LWP::Simple missing right in the middle. it probably EVALs the pod to get the metadata out and that includes "use" statements from the example itself 21:07
benjikun hm 21:11
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Xliff \w 21:11
Oops. \o 21:12
timotimo greetify you
benjikun o/
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timotimo i see color! 21:15
benjikun I've got it working on my end too 21:16
woohoo
Geth perl6-examples: 2e7e162bd0 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | lib/Pod/Htmlify.pm6
update try-require to The New Way™

makes syntax highlighting work again
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timotimo the cronjob to update the website ran just 1 minute ago, so we'll have to wait for it to run the next time 21:16
benjikun how long is the time gap? 21:17
timotimo looks to be 5 minutes, actually 21:18
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benjikun " 21:26
Generated on 2018-04-22T16:38:43.984435Z" is in the footer of examples.perl6.org
timotimo it's still working 21:27
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benjikun ah 21:27
timotimo it's in the 99 problems folder right now, working on P17-unobe 21:28
benjikun still has a ways to go then I assume
timotimo hum. the update.log file is empty, though? 21:29
benjikun it works!
timotimo it does?
benjikun check it out
timotimo oh, indeed!
cool.
benjikun the background color for the <pre> box could be a bit more complementary but looks good 21:30
what do you think, timotimo? 21:31
I think plain white backgrounds for the codeboxes looks nice
image.prntscr.com/image/x9KC0L9kT9...xCbXag.png 21:32
I suppose it doesn't matter too much lol
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benjikun We should have a dedicated section on perl6.org/resources/ for learning perl6 in spanish/other languages 21:43
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timotimo sorry, i was AFK 21:53
benjikun it's alright
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Xliff Was OpaquePointer removed from NativeCall? 22:19
===SORRY!=== 22:20
Type 'OpaquePointer' is not declared
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Xliff WTF? 22:34
constant OpaquePointer := Pointer;
Err... one sec
==SORRY!=== Error while compiling /home/cbwood/Projects/p6-gtk+/lib/GTK/Class/Widget.pm6 (GTK::Class::Widget)
Signatures as constraints on variables not yet implemented. Sorry.
^^ When did this happen? 22:35
geekosaur that sounds wrong to me (OpaquePointer := Pointer): Pointer wants to be parameterized, but I'd expect "opaque" to not be 22:36
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benjikun How can I clear a hash? 22:53
without iterating through it
geekosaur %foo = () 22:54
benjikun when I do `%h = Nil`, it fails for some reason
should Nil not be used there?
geekosaur it should not
benjikun hm
that worked with arrays, though 22:55
geekosaur it's kinda special, and there are few circumstances when it will do something useful. mostly it exists to mean complete absence, not even "nothing" but "nothing to see here, move along"
jnthn m: my @a = 1,2,3; @a = Nil; say @a;
camelia [(Any)]
Xliff m: say class { has $.x = 42 }.^attributes.say
camelia (Mu $!x)
True
geekosaur so it's kinda like saying "%h = oh wait, I didn;t mean to do anything here at all"
jnthn Note that Nil doesn't really work for emptying an Array, beyond not giving an error
Xliff m: say class { has $.x = 42; has $.y = 3.14159 }.^attributes.say
camelia (Mu $!x Mu $!y)
True
geekosaur right, it assigned a single default value into it. but for a hash you need a key and a value, and gave only one (of the wrong type, even) 22:56
benjikun I see
jnthn `= ()` or `= Empty` will both do it; I tend to use the first because it's less than half the number of chars :)
geekosaur actually, it might have turned into (Str)
benjikun didn't realize Empty was a keyword
jnthn It's not
It's a constant 22:57
benjikun oh, does the compiler handle that?
ohh
jnthn Like Nil :)
benjikun sweet, thanks for the help
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benjikun has anyone here used Template6? 23:48
not sure how to get the iteration number with the [% for %] loops
at least, without using arrays in arrays or something where it would be ((number content) (number content) ...) 23:51

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