[01:22] *** ggoebel114 joined [01:48] *** ilbot3 joined [03:59] *** zakharyas joined [05:47] *** MadcapJake_ joined [05:54] *** domidumont joined [05:59] *** domidumont joined [07:03] *** brrt joined [09:13] good *, ring-ding-ding-ding-ding [09:14] banana phone! [09:14] oh wait, wrong song :P [09:20] i'm not sure i'm that far along in the series :-) [09:29] *** cognominal joined [09:50] *** lizmat joined [10:32] *** brrt joined [11:00] hmm, i'm pondering agile-ness in relation to the JIT development [11:01] there are two observations here [11:01] .oO( 0. We should continue not doing scrum :P ) [11:01] a): i can't make progress unless i set small goals which are doable in at most, about 4 hours, because i don't have timeframes larger than that [11:02] b): i can't make progress unless these changes at each time yield something which works [11:03] c): i can't actually make such small changes and be sure to end up at the end, unless is analyze and design my trajectory upfront [11:03] or, rather [11:03] I like how your observations were agile enough to grow an extra one :) [11:03] c): if i analyze my trajectory upfront, it becomes much more feasilbe to divide the work into pieces that satisfy a and b [11:04] fwiw, I often - before digging into things - write myself a short list of steps in my text editor, that I work through [11:04] If it's anything non-small [11:04] my 2 secret weapons are fear, surprise, ruthless efficiency... [11:04] well, that's design and analysis, isn't it? [11:04] i'm using org-mode for all of that these days, and i've been very happy about that [11:05] Pretty much, yes :) [11:05] soooo... A and B are just about the agile manifesto repeated, C is almost the antithesis? [11:06] I don't really think agile is "go wander off in some direction and hope it'll all be OK" [11:06] Though I've seen it treated a bit like that [11:06] But it's reacting to change *over* following a plan [11:06] That doesn't mean "don't plan" [11:07] It means don't follow a plan when the circumstances change [11:07] hmmm [11:07] And render the plan possibly less valuable [11:07] that almost sounds like its just engineering [11:07] :-P [11:07] Which does carry an implication of not making plans that are doomed to become invalid. [11:08] But yeah, I've seen "let's do agile" lead to "we don't need to plan" [11:08] i have so many stories about that, that it wouldn't be at all a good idea to write about on a logged channel [11:12] interestingly, i think i have a plan for adding the requisite spill-load capacities, correctly even [11:13] it's just a long road :-o [12:00] *** brrt joined [12:38] jnthn: I almost had a bootstrapping problem. I put the saucer onto the coffee machine, not the cup. Fortunately I realised before I pushed the button. [12:39] Coffee flood narrowly averted! [12:40] aye, but also "clearly coffee needed here as a pre-req for correctly making coffee" [12:41] ...do you normally take a saucer to go with the cup? :) [12:43] yes. some sort of obsession [12:48] Curious. :) [12:49] I mean, with tea it feels like a saucer is natural. But coffee... [13:03] it's a (sort of) hemispherical cup shaped like a tea cup [13:03] so it feels like it needs the saucer [13:03] (as hemispherical as a tea cup is hemispherical) [13:04] ah [13:17] *** brrt joined [13:28] *** cognominal joined [14:14] *** zakharyas joined [14:39] *** lizmat joined [15:24] *** patrickz joined [15:25] *** cognominal joined [16:12] *** domidumont joined [16:45] *** cognominal joined [17:04] *** cognominal joined [17:06] *** brrt joined [18:00] *** dalek joined [18:58] *** lizmat joined [19:00] *** cognominal joined [20:21] *** brrt joined [21:40] *** retup__ joined [21:46] *** ggoebel115 joined [23:57] .oO( Geometrically hemispherical and topologically toroidal )