November -- doing stuff in Perl 6 in the time before Christmas. <november-wiki.org> <github.com/viklund/november> <irclog.perlgeek.de/november-wiki> <nopaste.snit.ch>
Set by moderator on 11 December 2008.
12:51 masak joined 14:10 ihrd joined
ihrd hi 14:10
zarah hi ihrd
masak hi ihrd 14:12
masak is just about to sit down and write the proposal
ihrd: hey, let me paste what Jesse said on my previous grant application for Web.pm 14:13
> Right now, this doesn't feel like quite the right fit for a Perl 6 microgrant.
> We're looking for small, easily complete-able projects which have a high 14:14
> applying to TPF for a "regular" grant on this one. Or if you get started with
> Web.pm and have a decent base to build on, I'd love to see you submit a
> feature or two as a microgrant project.
so,
Jesse is proposing two possible ways for us to apply for a grant. 14:15
1. apply for a regular Perl grant
(more money, less likely to get them)
2. start working on Web.pm, build some stuff and then apply for a Perl 6 microgrant for a subset of the featureset 14:16
I suggest we do (1), and if that grant is denied, we do (2).
ihrd hm. look like I not fully understand what is microgrant
masak ihrd: I'll find a link for you. 14:17
use.perl.org/article.pl?sid=07/03/22/1542235
zarah masak's link is also tinyurl.com/64g5pn
ihrd by the way I fell we should just do what we want -- start to make Web.pm 14:18
masak ihrd: of course. nothing stops us from starting today if we want.
fwiw, pmichaud said in a private conversation that he did think that Web.pm was worthy of a microgrant. but I don't think I told him exactly what Jesse wrote above. 14:19
ihrd I digging for good ideas in p5 frameworks, thinking.
masak ihrd++
ok, I'll start writing a grant application now. I'll be back in at most an hour with a draft. 14:20
ihrd I read your link, yes I agree with PM, look like microgrant exactly what we need. 14:23
masak aye. do you think that we should not apply for a regular Perl grant?
ihrd I do not know, really. I can expect many problems with Web.pm because Rakudo IO in very early stage. I think we should found what we really can, and this is a pert of work :) 14:27
s/pert/part/
masak here you can look at what regular grants were earlier accepted and completed: www.perlfoundation.org/grants 14:28
zarah masak's link is also tinyurl.com/5n4gxv
masak I'd say if sm0p is worthy of a grant, then Web.pm is too. 14:29
ihrd I will do my best with micro or with bigger one grant :) I think we should trying all possible ways to have time for work with perl6. 14:30
masak nod.
masak starts writing 14:31
ihrd thank you
I am going to sleep now. I will be back tomorrow. I will work on new-html-template. 14:33
masak cool.
ihrd bb
masak sleep well.
14:33 ihrd left 15:20 ihrd joined
ihrd hi, again 15:20
I jast can`t sleep
so I digg in Mojo
I found strange comment
masak :) 15:21
ihrd here search.cpan.org/src/SRI/Mojo-0.9/li.../Cookie.pm
zarah ihrd's link is also tinyurl.com/5ofhoq
ihrd # My Homer is not a communist. # He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a communist, but he is not a porn star.
I can`t understand it
mb it is a joke?
masak ihrd: I think it's a strange joke, yes.
I'm almost done with the draft.
ihrd O, send it on my email 15:22
masak ihrd: yes, I will. just going to finish it.
ihrd: the quote seems to be a Simpsons quote.
I don't see the relevance of it here though. maybe someone just likes that quote. 15:23
ihrd thank you, I like to see a little sense here 15:25
masak sense++ 15:26
ihrd I said something wrong? 15:27
Look like Sebastian relly like Simpsons -- he use quotes in all Mojo components 15:28
masak not at all. I just agreed with you.
ihrd ok
masak that might be it. Larry Wall used to quote Tolkien in his Perl implementation code.
ihrd looks funy 15:35
do you now, can we transform Grammar tree somehow? 15:36
I mean do something with it after we ~~ it
Change Match object I mean? 15:37
It`s why I blocked in asterisk branch 15:38
masak ihrd: don't know if I understand exactly, but no, I don't think so. 15:40
it is really a question for #perl6 or p6l
ihrd: I'd like you to tell me more precisely why you blocked on the asterisk branch
ihrd Natural way for my -- modify issue nodes in tree 15:42
masak do you think you could provide a simple code example of this? 15:43
ihrd I implement trivial action for <plaintext>
masak it would be easier to see what you want to do then.
ihrd github.com/viklund/november/tree/as...ate/Act.pm 15:44
zarah ihrd's link is also tinyurl.com/65emp7
ihrd You can see -- I stoped on if and for 15:45
masak ok. 15:46
yes, ISTR that.
why?
ihrd I think I can make thats using atrribute-flag for push something into out or not, but it is ugly for my
masak I don't think I understand the problem well enough yet.
ihrd I just stop, because I start to searching for more natural way to change tree 15:47
masak but it seems to me that if this technique can be used to parse Perl 6 in Rakudo, it can be used to parse HTML Templates :)
ihrd I do not now how that works in Rakudo now
Yes, I hope :)
masak ihrd: I don't like the idea of changing the tree.
I like when things flow in a straight line from input to output. 15:48
ihrd But I do not know how that done in it
masak when stuff needs to be modified, I see that as a bit of a failure.
the line 17 in Act.pm will be very common. 15:50
I'd suggest putting that into a method, and calling the method 'make' or something. :)
like in Rakudo.
ihrd for one line? I think make in Rakudo do something bigger :) 15:52
in Rakudo PGE produce AST
masak it probably does.
but even one line might be worth factoring out, if it shows intent. 15:53
I'm also thinking if gather/take can be used here.
ihrd mb. I do not see how right now 15:55
In my Act.pm now 15:56
palintext just added into $!out
masak gather/take is dynamic, which means that the gather can be in another method or even another class. 15:57
ihrd so, for if I should change that behavoir
masak I'm just making suggestions so far.
ihrd o. I am not about gather/take right now, I just trying to explain me old things about that 15:58
I do that slow, sorry
... but with our HTML::Template grammar I just can`t catch if start and if end 16:00
ok. now I going to read gather/take specs 16:02
masak ihrd: I wish I understood better the thing that's blocking you in Act.pm 16:03
maybe I should just try it myself and see how far I get. :)
ihrd ok 16:04
masak rakudo: multi foo(&c where { .arity == 1 }) { say "One." }; multi foo(&c where { .arity == 2 }) { say "Two." }; foo({ $^a }); foo({$^a + $^b}) 16:05
p6eval rakudo 33858: OUTPUT[One.ā¤Two.ā¤]
ihrd looking good 16:06
masak it's pretty powerful. 16:08
ihrd: now I will reply to your email.
ihrd 15 weeks, woow 16:10
masak too long? too short? 16:11
(I just made a guess based on what other grant proposals had asked for.)
ihrd too long, but look like you put really big goals to
Three web applications that make use of Web.pm. 16:12
Yes, that is can took so match time :)
masak I think three web apps is needed to get a feel for what is needed in Web.pm. 16:13
but they don't need to be big.
we have November, that's already in the works.
and then your blog idea.
and then something else, preferably something Javascript-rich.
ihrd excuse my, I rock to sleep my daughter 16:25
okay, I like ide to make blog
I have good name for that project, you know :) 16:26
I am not good in JS
and this is my next question
masak I've done some js.
ihrd AJAX hooks, what is it?
masak a hook is a way to connect to something. 16:27
usually a method in a base class that can be overridden.
ihrd we produce AJAX-rich sites, but I do not know what is AJAX hooks
masak ah. Ajax is the name for Javascrip + XmlHttpRequest. 16:28
s/Javascrip/Javascript/
ihrd I now what is it AJAX :)
masak good.
and a hook is simply a way to access something.
ihrd what you want to wright in perl6 for AJAX?
masak for example, svn has hooks for 'before-commit' and 'after-commit'
...where developers can put their own actions. 16:29
ihrd yes, git has many hooks too
masak ihrd: I want to make it easy to make an Ajax-rich web application with Perl 6.
that's why hooks are needed, to connect Perl 6 and Ajax.
ihrd We just use JSON
and I can`t see what we miss here 16:30
masak it's more than that.
script.aculo.us/ 16:31
jquery.com/
ihrd Your web-app just have action, JS call that action with same data, we send that another data for it...
We use Jquery
masak ihrd: we need to make it _easy_ to integrate Perl 6 and jQuery.
ihrd how??? 16:32
masak that is still not known.
but if we manage that, we win.
ihrd I can`t found real problem here to resolve it 16:33
can you give my some links in p5 to look at?
masak not really. 16:34
I don't know if this type of application exists today.
it probably does, for example Slashdot uses some Javascript.
but not very much.
hm, I realise I'm talking hot air here... 16:36
but I really think there can be an easy way to integrate Javascript and Perl 6 in webapp development, so that using both together is easier than using them separately. 16:37
and I think that Web.pm can serve as the basis for that.
and I think that it would be really good for Perl 6 if it did, and did it well.
ihrd if you can`t found example in p5, I think we should remove that from the grant. 16:38
masak yes, you might be right.
we should only promise things we can keep.
ihrd I sow some examples of integration in that area, no one use it at all. 16:39
masak do you have a suggestion for what to put there instead?
ihrd: aye. it's hard to predict what people will use.
at least in advance :)
ihrd I think we should focus on HTTP stack, REST. We can make some template engine... 16:44
CRUD for web-forms 16:45
masak good idea.
feel free to change the list accordingly.
ihrd We need FastCGI and test HTTP server, but we can done it without IO in Rakudo 16:46
can`t
masak ok.
might be good to tell the Rakudo team what we need.
ihrd how grants managed? I mean, we work 15 weeks, and if we success TPF send check? 16:49
masak I think it depends. 16:50
I saw some applicant suggest that money be sent monthly. 16:51
...and be dependent on progress reports each month. 16:52
then there's the delicate question of how much money to ask for. 16:53
ihrd Stephen Weeks aka Tene? are that is one person? :) 17:15
Excuse me if I erroneously mix up 17:19
masak Stephen Weeks === Tene. 17:22
ihrd I think we need to meet and speech about that grant 17:25
masak maybe.
would IRC be enough, you think? 17:27
ihrd It is ok for me. 17:29
We just need to understand who can do what, and how many time cant spent.
Stephen is core parrot developer, yes? 17:30
masak I think so.
he is a regular on #parrot, at least.
I don't know when Tene will be around, but I will not be online so much tomorrow, but more next week. 17:33
ihrd ok 17:36
what about simple task manager and bug tracker as thrid app?
masak I like. 17:37
that is possibly js-rich as well.
ihrd yes, and we can use it in or work
I like dog foodm you know 17:38
oh. s/or/our/ and s/foodm/food,/ 17:39
And I really need to sleep. 3:40 am :( 17:40
masak (dog food)++
ihrd: sleep well.
my sleeping cycle is totally screwed up as well right now.
I came home at 12:00 and decided to watch a movie. 17:41
Tene masak: I'm around whenever. Just tell me when.
masak Tene: oh, cool.
let's make it sometime Monday then.
ihrd hi Tene!
Tene It's 10:41 AM Saturday for me right now.
hi ihrd!
masak regardless of the outcome of this grant proposal, I think it'll be a good plan around which to structure our work on Web.pm 17:42
ihrd Sunday for my :)
masak aye :) 17:43
ihrd feel free to use my jabber, forihrd@gmail.com 17:46
I use it at work to, so you can find me all trough the day 17:47
bb
17:47 ihrd left
Tene jabber = sweeks at gurulabs dot com 17:50
masak ok. my jabber address is cmasak at gmail dot com, but I'm never online unless I have a specific reason. 17:51
email is the best way to reach me.
I'll contact you both on Monday, one way or the other.
23:07 moritz_ joined

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