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2009 -- the year of November. <november-wiki.org> <github.com/viklund/november> <irclog.perlgeek.de/november-wiki> <nopaste.snit.ch> Set by moderator on 10 February 2009. |
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| masak | Tene: don't know if I said it, but I have a use case for your tagging module. | 06:57 | |
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| masak | the description of Rack in this announcement is very fitting to how I view Web.pm | 12:02 | |
| blade.nagaokaut.ac.jp/cgi-bin/scat....alk/324389 | |||
| zarah | masak's link is also tinyurl.com/9ahm5h | ||
| masak subscribes to rack-devel @ googlegroups.com | 12:03 | ||
| ruoso | masak, that looks like a good canidadate for the "request processing" part... | 12:10 | |
| masak | ruoso: yup. | ||
| that's why I'm porting parts of Rack this week. | |||
| ruoso | masak, maybe sketching the roles for Request, Response, Request::HTTP first is a good idea | 12:17 | |
| masak | ruoso: yes, maybe. | ||
| moritz_ | why roles? | 12:18 | |
| masak | ruoso: I still haven't forgotten your wish to separate out the general Request parts. | ||
| moritz_ | from a design philsophy it seems reasonable to make a request a class/object | ||
| ruoso | you mean instead of a role? | 12:19 | |
| moritz_, roles doesn't interfere in the isa hierarchy | 12:20 | ||
| moritz_, it means that some object can comply with the interface without sharing any behavior... | 12:21 | ||
| masak | ruoso: but most often you want to use Request and response directly, right? | 12:24 | |
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| ruoso | hmpf... bad internet connection... no donut for you... | 13:01 | |
| one of the biggest problems of the Java API is that it failed to mix Interfaces and Classes correctly | 13:02 | ||
| some times you are forced to describe what would be Interfaces as Abstract classes because of that | |||
| and it just messes everything up | |||
| roles can describe only the features related to that specific functionality | |||
| while if it's a class, it has an isa, and you have to adere to that hierarchy | |||
| masak, roles can provide a default implementation, through a punned class | 13:03 | ||
| masak | sorry, got uprooted from my chair by $BOSS. | 13:04 | |
| ruoso: so you're saying we should create them as roles even though they will be used as classes most of the time? | 13:05 | ||
| ruoso | yes... that's the same reasoning behind all Perl 6 built-ins also being roles | 13:06 | |
| because that makes it very easy for me to implement a new Request that has a completely independent ISA hierarchy | 13:08 | ||
| masak | ruoso: fair enough. | 13:09 | |
| masak has been reading recently that inheritance is overrated | |||
| ruoso | masak, inheritance for code re-use is indeed overrated | 13:19 | |
| and unfortunally, that seems to be the most common use | |||
| masak | ruoso: ah, so you mean that inheritance for e.g. polymorphism is totally ok? that's good news. | 13:20 | |
| ruoso | Perl 6 saves you from doing that, you can use inheritance only when it really means that | ||
| masak, my point is a bit more specific | 13:21 | ||
| inheritance is often used to improve code reuse | |||
| masak | aye. | ||
| ruoso | and not to semantically tell that they inherit concepts | ||
| I mean... Dog isa Animal | 13:22 | ||
| there's no reason to say that Dog "does" Animal | |||
| but Dog does Barf | 13:23 | ||
| and Barf can be a behavior that many other things do... | |||
| masak, I think the rule-of-thumb is: If you're describing behavior, use roles. If you're describing semantics relationship, use classes. | 13:30 | ||
| masak | and only Perl 6 has roles. :) | 13:31 | |
| ruoso | masak, but I think it is worth some more ellaboration on that matter, maybe for your next blog post ;) | 13:34 | |
| masak | ruoso: I'll think about it. :) | ||
| moritz_ | ruoso: I think you should write that blog post yourself :-) | ||
| masak too | 13:35 | ||
| I just thought pointing that out might be impolite. :) | 13:37 | ||
| ruoso | heh | 13:38 | |
| moritz_ | bland != impolite, IMHO | ||
| masak | moritz_: are you saying I'm bland? :P | 13:39 | |
| moritz_ | sorry, blunt | 13:41 | |
| masak | ah. | ||
| yes, I have nothing against having that epithet pinned on me. | |||
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| Tene_ | masak: oh? I'll get started on it ASAP. | 16:10 | |
| masak | Tene_: hello. yes, I'm very excited about this idea I have. | 16:13 | |
| not sure how far we'll get with it during the grant period, but that doesn't really matter. | |||
| it's a nice use case to keep in mind, I think. apart from November, Maya, and a paste site. | |||
| Tene_ | www.vimeo.com/3703345 | 16:40 | |
| Not necessarily relevant to us, but some cool stuff. | 16:42 | ||
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| masak | hackathon tonight! | 18:28 | |
| moritz_: viklund tells me to tell you that you already have a November account. the password is in an email from Jan 22. | 18:43 | ||
| moritz_ | masak: I thought so. And since I couldn't find a mail from him, I wanted to recover it... | 18:45 | |
| but November doesn't seem to offer that facility | |||
| masak | that is correct. | ||
| we don't have an emailing module. :) | |||
| nor, I think, will that be part of Web.pm. | |||
| moritz_ | I hope viklund's email address contains either 'johan' or 'viklund'? | 18:47 | |
| masak | I bet it does. | ||
| his email address does, at least. | 18:48 | ||
| moritz_ | ah, found it | 18:49 | |
| finally | |||
| in Trash | |||
| masak | :) | ||
| viklund mutters something next to me. | |||
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| moritz_ | but why, oh why? ;-) | 18:50 | |
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| sahadev | hello, i cloned the latest november from github and tried to "make" it. i get the error "Can't find ./HTML/Template in @INC" and looks like HTML/Template.pm isn't part of the distribution. | 21:28 | |
| where can i get it? | |||
| moritz_ | sahadev: from github.com/masak/html-template/ ... | 21:29 | |
| zarah | moritz_'s link is also tinyurl.com/cjah5b | ||
| moritz_ | sahadev: but it's easier to download proto (github.com/masak/proto/), which installs the dependencies for you | ||
| zarah | moritz_'s link is also tinyurl.com/c2czwu | ||
| masak | sahadev: welcome. | ||
| zarah | masak: You have new messages. Write '/msg zarah @messages' to read them. | ||
| sahadev | moritz_: thanks | ||
| masak | sahadev: it's not very advertised, but some modules are moving out of November because they don't really belong there. | 21:30 | |
| sahadev | cool. | ||
| moritz_ | or because other projects want to use them as well | ||
| masak | sahadev: we're building an installer that downloads and builds everything automatically for you (it's called "proto"), but that's not very advertised either, currently. | ||
| sahadev | one minor thing. the Makefile.PL assumes that rakudo still lives under parrot/languages/perl6. | ||
| moritz_ | sahadev: I'm curious, how did you learn about november? | 21:31 | |
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| masak needs to go sleep now | 21:32 | ||
| sahadev | i follow use.perl.org occassionally. | ||
| moritz_ | ah | ||
| thanks | |||
| sahadev | i had heard about november a few months ago, and filed away in my brain to check out at some time. | ||
| masak backlogs | 21:33 | ||
| sahadev: about the Makefile.PL -- that's one of the things we've been looking at tonight | |||
| sahadev | i have been trying to get a grip on Perl 6 stuff and trying to read up as much as i can (your blogs are quite a lot of help) | ||
| masak: cool. | |||
| masak | sahadev: there's a newer brand of Makefile.PL coming out soon to all Perl 6 projects. | ||
| moritz_ should blog more | |||
| but currently the articles take precedence, and they need a lot of time | 21:34 | ||
| sahadev can't spend much time unfortunately to make a concerted effort to learn Perl 6 | 21:35 | ||
| so my learning is not very organized at the moment. i am trying to grasp whatever i can. | |||
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