2009 -- the year of November. <november-wiki.org> <github.com/viklund/november> <irclog.perlgeek.de/november-wiki> <nopaste.snit.ch>
Set by moderator on 27 May 2009.
05:19 masak joined
eiro hello masak 07:13
masak bonjour eiro.
you're in luck, I'm working on Web.pm today. :) 07:14
eiro can you tell me how to add directories to @*INC
?
not really: i'm sick and stopped the work 3 days 07:15
masak well, you can use `BEGIN { @*INC.push('directory') }`
or you can set PERL6LIB in your shell.
eiro: sorry to hear that.
eiro 2nd point is what i wanted :)
masak hope you can turn it to something good, for example by helping me make Web.pm awesome. :) 07:16
eiro well ... frequent headaches ... so i don't know :/
masak now, don't overtax yourself. 07:17
what is it you're setting PERL6LIB for, by the way?
eiro btw... i have to find another job: this one sucks and i guess my health is in relation
print -l $perl6lib 07:19
gime nothing for the moment
masak er, capitals? $PERL6LIB? 07:20
and shouldn't that be `echo`, not `print`?
eiro masak, ? really ? you don't use zsh ?
masak no :)
eiro omg! you need to!
typeset -UT PERL6LIB perl6lib 07:21
masak I sort of settled in with bash, and I think I like it.
eiro i've tied perl6lib to PERL6LIB
masak some day I'll switch, but likely not to zsh.
eiro so i can now deal with it as an array
-U means unique so :
wayland76 Ok, that's cool :)
eiro perl6lib+=( toto toto wow )
wayland76 I've thought about zsh from time to time, but never tried it 07:22
eiro print $PERL6LIB gives me
masak eiro: sorry, if you can't make it work in zsh, I'm not sure I can help you. bit out of my depth here.
eiro toto:wow
wayland76 I'm wondering if a shell written in p6 might be an idea, though :)
eiro haha ... thought a lot about it ... the best way to a modern shell is the powershell approach imho 07:23
+ the ZLE 07:24
masak, chsh -s /bin/zsh now ! it's important for the rest of your life :)
masak nah. 07:25
eiro > perl6lib+=( /home/mc/src/3rd/{Web,yarn}/lib )
09:25 .oO(Full, 92) mc@auckland:/home/mc/src/3rd/yarn
> print -l $PERL6LIB
/home/mc/src/3rd/Web/lib:/home/mc/src/3rd/yarn/lib
wayland76 chsh: can only change local entries; use ypchsh instead 07:26
(that was an error message; I use LDAP)
eiro wow .. what system ?
wayland76 Fedora 10 on the desktop, CentOS on the server 07:27
eiro chsh works on linux if pam is correctly configured i think
wayland76 I have one machine that does NFS and LDAP that I hope to upgrade rarely, and the desktop I can upgrade regularly
eiro oops .. i don't know fedora: switched to debian years ago and don't want to come back :)
use ldapvi on your account ;) 07:28
wayland76 I don't have ldapvi :)
eiro any other ldap editor ?
wayland76 That's my main problem; lbe crashes on my machine :) 07:30
So I have to write scripts to change things
It looks like I could do "yum install ldapvi" though :)
eiro masak, FYI: i was a bash fan and one of the first french translators of ABS. I started zsh to write a "zsh to bash" tutorial ... 07:31
i finally do the other way :)
masak understood.
eiro wayland76, :))
are you 76 years old ? why the 76 ? 07:33
wayland76 Born in 1976 07:34
Not very exciting; IIRC it was originally suggested to me by yahoo mail 07:35
and I use it when there's already a wayland (such as on Freenode)
eiro ok 08:05
masak getting back on topic, :) 08:22
I've realized that I will need to write a spec for Web.pm
kinda like the Perl 6 synopses.
eiro masak, does yarn works ? i'm unable to run it :( 08:57
my fault :) 08:58
masak eiro: it did work at one point. I'm not sure it does anymore.
things bit-rot quickly in Web.pm
eiro ok: it doesn't work .. i'm trying to do a basic CGI for Web.pm and it lack of documentation :) 08:59
i'm trying to find a complete example
masak ok. let me see if I can help you. 09:00
have you found bin/basic-demo.pl ?
eiro masak, sure ... but there is no cgi there 09:01
masak not sure what you mean by that.
everything in Web.pm is CGI at some level.
eiro masak, in fact i think i can try it by my way but a tutorial with a basic form would be the least required doc 09:02
masak, yep: parsing the http header from client :)
masak eiro: yes. I'll definitely write a tutorial, sooner rather than later.
eiro of course ... but before doing it myself, i would like to know if someone did the job to read it
masak, i can help you by trying myself, asking questions 09:03
masak eiro: it sounds like the sort of thing the Rack part of Web,pm should handle, yes.
eiro i can also write the tutorial if you answer the questions :)
masak eiro: I'm not 100% sure what it is you want to do, but I'm willing to help.
sure, I'd be happy if you wrote a tutorial. if it's good, and with your permission, it'll be integrated into the Web.pm repo. 09:04
eiro i'll love it :)
so: have to go now .. i'll ping later 09:05
cya
masak \\o
eiro back ... 09:54
TT is missing :) 09:58
masak in what sense? 09:59
eiro well .. this is the best perl V i know for MVC 10:47
if i would be skilled enought, i would port it in perl6 for sure
my wwk syntax for the wiki too ... 10:48
(wwk was my own wiki)
masak I don't know much about Template Toolkit. 10:50
maybe a port would be worth it, yes.
the thing about Web.pm is that it should enable such things.
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wayland76 I happen to like HTML::Mason better than TT 11:08
Specifically because it does autohandlers and dhandlers
So if we're doing something like that, can we include those?
masak I have experience of neither. 11:11
but hey, this is an open-source project, so jump right in! :)
eiro wayland76, i really don't trust HTML::Mason by experience: the pb is that too many developpers make php then 11:16
TT keeps it simple but have a real separation between template designers dans the rest of the team 11:17
it would be more important in perl6 which is "not designed as a first langage but as the last one" 11:18
HTML::Mason would become a very bad idea according to me
btw: what's a dhandler ?
masak I think having both a fast-but-dumb level and a correct-and-more-advanced level is important. 11:19
think scripting versus application development.
sometimes one fades into the other.
eiro as i said: i'm not skilled enougth. Will contrib as i can :)
masak, Tags *is* the correct-and-more-advanced level (for me) 11:21
masak eiro: that might be a valid point, too. 11:22
eiro: are you saying you don't mind mixing logic and presentation?
eiro masak, no ... i don't want to mix them but you can have a class BookView does View { use Tags; ... } 11:26
masak eiro: ok. fair enough. 11:27
eiro: takes some discipline, though, because it's not inherent in the system.
eiro it would be cool to have TT *and* HTML::Mason in long term. But according to me, TT2 must be sooner in the roadmap 11:28
masak, sure .. but trust me: HTML::Mason requires the same discipline
masak I'm writing Hitomi, it's foremost on the roadmap.
eiro (as you can entierly write your app into the html mason perl tags 11:29
Hitomi ? template system too ?
masak yes, ported from Python's Genshi.
eiro ok 11:30
masak it's said to be really good.
eiro cool :)
show { table { tr { <a b c>.map: { td $_ }}}} 11:31
it failed .. is it normal ? 11:32
(because of the map)
masak try using () instead of :
eiro well done masak! 11:34
masak both should work, but in general I don't trust : 11:35
eiro an explaination ? (for my tuto)
ok .. good to know
masak eiro: I don't know exactly why.
I think you should experiment and find out. 11:36
eiro ok .. so nevermind :)
masak I would, but I'm busy writing Hitomi. :)
eiro write! write! i continues the exploration of your code :)
masak, do you mind patches just adding comments ? 11:37
masak eiro: I don't mind, at least not if I like the comments. :)
eiro :) ok 11:38
prefered adress is @gmail?
wayland76 eiro: say I have a folder called "foo" 11:39
And in it, I have a bunch of images, called 1.jpg, 2.jpg, 3.jpg
If I make a file called "dhandler" in that directory...
And a web request comes in for foo/1.html ... 11:40
eiro this have nothing to do with templating according to me :)
wayland76 Then it will run the dhandler (default handler) because 1.html doesn't exist, and I can make that into HTML that shows 1.jpg with surrounding whatever
eiro but it's a cool feature for sure :)
wayland76 But if I create 2.html, then the dhandler is only called for 1 and 3 11:41
Yes, maybe nothing to do with templating, but it's one of the 2 reasons I use HTML::Mason :)
Am I right in presuming you're already familiar with autohandlers?
masak eiro: yes, the gmail address works fine. 11:42
eiro masak, ok
wayland76, hmm ... for me it's something that is done when some function is missing in a module
right ?
wayland76 No, that's not a HTML::Mason autohandler 11:43
Here's how HTML::Mason autohandlers work
Say I have a file in the directory foo called 2.html
And I put in a file called "autohandler"...
Then HTML mason *first* uses the autohandler template 11:44
And when the code in the autohandler calls a "next" function, only then does it include 2.html
I think it also works its way backwards up the directory tree
so you can put an autohandler in the site root that eg. includes all the CSS you want 11:45
That's sort of a half-templating, half file-finding feature
eiro cool feature but again: for me this is a behevior for an mvc framework or an httpd configuration ... not for a templating system
but you're right: masak have to write it too ;) 11:46
wayland76 Ok, I see your point. HTML::Mason was never careful to distinguish them. As long as the features are in there somewhere... :)
I'm looking forward to a more careful system, though :) 11:47
eiro wayland76, yep ... for me, html::mason would be split on 2 projects : 11:48
- their php like templating features
- their minimalistic MVC system
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wayland76 masak: In the long term, will the Web.pm suite be ISP-friendly? 12:02
masak wayland76: what does that mean to you?
wayland76 ie. with the application in one place, and the config in another, so that each user can have their own config, but only one copy of the app is needed? 12:03
masak ah.
it's too early for me to give a sensible answer to that, but I expect there will be ways to do that, yes.
I mean, hey, it's Perl.
wayland76 Ok.
Well, yes, but I'd also like it to be *easy* 12:04
masak I see.
wayland76 I think there'd need to be 3 copies of the config
eiro wayland76, isn't it a mod_parrot game, wayland76 ?
wayland76 One where the ISP can specify mandatory settings (ie. safe_mode = on)
One where the ISP can specify default settings
and one where the user can config things 12:05
eiro mod_parrot *is* isp friendly as i read on moritz posts
wayland76 eiro: Hmm. It depends.
I guess I've found CMSs (which I know Web.pm isn't) to be less ISP-friendly than many other pieces of software 12:06
And I was probably just getting confused again :)
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eiro wayland76, i got it! i know what you meant and completely agreed 14:10
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moderator 2009 -- the year of November. <november-wiki.org> <github.com/viklund/november> <irclog.perlgeek.de/november-wiki> <nopaste.snit.ch>

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