2009 -- the year of November. <november-wiki.org> <github.com/viklund/november> <irclog.perlgeek.de/november-wiki> <nopaste.snit.ch>
Set by moderator on 10 February 2009.
01:58 Tene joined 04:58 Tene_ joined 05:11 masak joined 06:46 ihrd joined
ihrd OH HAI! 06:48
zarah oh hai ihrd
ihrd I am found our grant founded right now
news.perlfoundation.org/2009/03/200...sults.html
zarah ihrd's link is also tinyurl.com/dfy7zc 06:49
ihrd masak, Tene_: we are faced with the big work :) 06:51
masak aye :) 06:52
I think I should reply about the naming thing. 06:53
personally, I find nothing wrong with the name 'Web'.
and I don't think outsiders are necessarily in a position to determine if it's the right name for a Perl 6 web module. 06:54
but I agree that it might be problematic, and I think we should discuss it on #perl6.
and then make a decision based on that discussion.
ihrd masak: "Web" -- okay for me 07:05
masak ihrd: aye, for me too.
ihrd: do you understand the fears of the people saying that it would be 'opinionated'? 07:06
ihrd actually no 07:07
masak ok. I do, so allow me to explain. :)
ihrd for my It is just short and logical name
masak these people are people used to CPAN, where when you decide on a name, that name is taken FOREVER. 07:08
ihrd this is first web-framework in perl6, so we take simplest name :)
masak if it's a bad module, it's basically a wasted good name.
these people believe that if we take such a good name, we have to make a _really_ good module. 07:09
ihrd if our framefork will by bad, we just rewright it
masak ihrd: I love your belief in our ability. :)
ihrd and I`m sure we will do rewrite it, because a lot of good projects I know rewrited 07:10
masak ihrd: it's like this: there are many ways we could go wrong in this, and our product will be unusable for future Perl 6 programmers.
I acknowledge this -- we are going to make mistakes, and they might even be fatal. 07:11
ihrd I do not belive we make Web.pm ideal for the first attempt
masak agreed.
we will approach this by trial and error.
or rather, wise empiricism.
ihrd and at last, people who woried about 'they take good name, but make bad module' always can send patches, and start to commit better code 07:13
masak ihrd: aye, and that works because we're not on CPAN yet. 07:14
ihrd: my point is that the poeple who complain about the name tend to forget that.
ihrd I like how Ruby community do -- Rails + Merb = Rails 3, cooperation!
masak :)
is Merb also Rack-powered?
ihrd yes 07:15
and Rails 3 will be Rack-powered too
masak really likes Rack
I think we should steal it.
ihrd I need to read more about it
masak I'll try to make a writeup today about my/our plans, and push it to the Web repo. 07:16
ihrd I still do not see how it works inside
masak ihrd: hang on, I'll send you a good link.
rubymanor.org/videos/rack/
ihrd okay
zarah masak's link is also tinyurl.com/9cysqs
masak zarah: you are a smart girl. 07:17
zarah masak: I'm so smart I scare myself. Over.
ihrd my internet connection is slow, can I donwload this video? 07:18
masak hm, maybe.
I'll check.
ihrd argh. my ff die when it trying to open it 07:19
masak apologies.
aye, it's downloadable from this page: www.slideshare.net/danwrong/8-minut...esentation 07:20
zarah masak's link is also tinyurl.com/63hqv8 07:21
ihrd thank you!
pm RPN calculator looks good 07:22
masak sorry?
ihrd ah, but thisi is just presentation
I will try to found video
I use.perl.org/~pmichaud/journal/38580
zarah ihrd's link is also tinyurl.com/d7bm67 07:23
masak ihrd: 'try to find', not 'try to found'. 'found' is a verb meaning, for example, 'to create a foundation/association/company'. 07:25
I don't often correct you, but here there's a real risk of misunderstanding. :)
ihrd yes, sorry
masak no problem. keep writing English, it's going great!
ihrd I do not use English about 2 weeks and lost my shape :) 07:26
masak ah, nice RPN calculator. quite idiomatic Perl 6.
tsss :)
ihrd yes! 07:27
I like methods on topic
I do not exactly why
masak I like methods on topic too.
ihrd but I like ol that .method; .method: 'fooo'; .yet_another_method
masak but I often confuse .foo with self.foo :/
Tene_ especially nice with given {}
masak I'm a bit skeptical to using invocant colon, ever :)
I think it confuses the code. 07:28
ihrd hm, I like to use it when it help my to avoid parentheses inside parentheses 07:34
masak ihrd: viklund and I had a fairly hard-to-track-down logical bug in November because of a colon once.
ihrd in my code I think 07:35
masak might be.
even before that, I thought they were unnecessary. but that really turned me off them.
ihrd plz explain my, what happend
masak I think parentheses are much clearer.
ihrd: I'll try.
but I don't remember exactly.
maybe if I find the commit... 07:36
ihrd can you find related commits?
masak I'll try. hold on.
aye, found the commit. it's 0d9df05. 07:43
see the second chunk, the one with 'CONTENT =>'. 07:44
so, what happened was that we didn't see the colon, and the link_maker and extlink_maker arguments went to read_page instead of .format 07:45
...and as I said, we realized this after rubbing our eyes in disbelief for the better part of an hour. :) 07:46
somehow the args were defined when we sent them in to the method, but not when they got there! :)
ihrd sorry, I hang up with some work-related stuff 07:57
masak ok. no problem.
ihrd back now and read irc log
ah, I see 07:58
but I thing this is happend only because you do not expect colon here 07:59
this is my code 08:00
mb you see my blog post about that notation
masak no. URL? 08:01
ihrd $minimal.format($.storage.read_page: $page) better then $minimal.format($.storage.read_page($page)) for my
but looks like it my own whim 08:02
masak ok. I understand your reasons, but I prefer to be consistent and use only parentheses.
ihrd I hope this is not code standard 08:05
masak no, it's just a personal preference of mine. 08:06
ihrd do TPF send any instruction to you? 08:10
about grant
who will be our grant manager?
masak Adrian Howard. 08:11
ihrd nice name :) 08:12
masak ihrd: I just forwarded you and Tene_ the emails about it. I didn't see before that they were only sent to me. 08:21
ihrd ok 08:27
too vague name.. hm 08:29
what is GC? 08:31
GC members?
moritz_ grant commitee
masak "Grant Committee", I guess.
moritz_++ # draws the fastest 08:32
ihrd Ah, yes
thank you both
moritz_ masak++ # better spelling ;-)
masak moritz_: I have a rule for that specific word: two m's, two t's and two e's. :) 08:33
ihrd )
hm.. mb Muagamba?
masak sorry, what? 08:35
ihrd just joke, another vague name 08:37
masak ah, ok. :)
ok, I just pushed an early PLAN file to the web repo. 09:03
my work will mainly focus on that file this week, preparing runnable example code that I think will work on top of different layers of Web. 09:04
comments welcome on the (very little) text I have written so far.
11:34 ihrd left
moritz_ masak: care to add me as a commiter to html-template? 12:44
(I can also fork if you prefer that workflow)
13:06 p6eval joined 14:05 Tene joined
masak moritz_: I don't mind adding you as a committer, but let's try the fork/pull request thing if that's ok by you. I need the practice. :) 14:28
15:08 p6eval joined
moritz_ masak: ok 15:21
15:39 p6eval joined 15:43 p6eval joined 15:47 p6eval joined 15:55 p6eval joined 18:53 Tene_ joined 19:20 PerlJam joined
PerlJam greeble. 19:21
masak hoj. 19:22
PerlJam reads the backlog
Rack is nice (as is rails 3) There's some good to be copied from there.
masak is really happy today from all the discussion 19:24
PerlJam happy coders are good coders :)
where's the mailing list? 19:25
masak groups.google.com/group/november-wiki 19:26
zarah masak's link is also tinyurl.com/awn2o7
PerlJam thanks
PerlJam reads about "Waves" 19:27
inheritable config is interesting. 19:30
masak aye.
PerlJam the "layers" though look like they map to roles really well. (runtime roles as mst was saying)
masak indeed. 19:31

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