2009 -- the year of November. <november-wiki.org> <github.com/viklund/november> <irclog.perlgeek.de/november-wiki> <nopaste.snit.ch>
Set by moderator on 10 February 2009.
05:53 Tene joined 07:27 p6eval joined 07:42 masak joined
masak Tene: I've been reading up about hpricot, a tags lib in Ruby. 07:51
first off: yes, we definitely want a tags library in Web.pm. 07:52
second, please have a look at and let yourself be inspired to the appropriate degree by wiki.github.com/why/hpricot/hpricot-challenge 07:58
zarah masak's link is also tinyurl.com/bw2tau
Tene reads 08:06
08:08 wayland76 joined
masak wayland76: oh hai :) 08:08
wayland76 hi :)
Is this just for November, or web stuff in general? 08:09
masak technically, it's just for November.
but November will be the first one against the wall when Web.pm arrives, so...
...we tend to discuss Web.pm here as well.
moritz_ de factor more general
s/or/o/
wayland76 Ok. Because I have a bunch of p5 modules that do authentication 08:10
either inline or HTTP Auth, depending on what you like
masak moritz_: I like "defactor". it's what we'll do with November with the help of Web.pm.
Tene full of cough drugs, can't think.
moritz_ ;-)
wayland76 And backending onto Authen::Simple
Tene sleeps instead
masak Tene: night. 08:11
see you soon.
wayland76: ok.
wayland76 And I'm wondering whether anyone already has auth plans, or whether I should investigate porting these?
masak wayland76: the latter.
wayland76 Tene: Hope you're well soon. Goodnight :)
masak I haven't even thought about auth yet.
we need it, that's all.
wayland76 ok, well, I'm trying to build Parrot, et. al.
masak it's one of those things I'm thinking of putting into layer one of Web.pm. 08:12
wayland76 I'm one of the few people in the world who knows how to do optional HTTP Auth :)
masak wayland76: welcome, then. :)
wayland76: here's my PLAN. github.com/masak/web/blob/cc61a6014...42bf9/PLAN
zarah masak's link is also tinyurl.com/b37czv
masak if you want to send a patch or a pull request to that, I'd be delighted. 08:13
wayland76 One thing -- I note you comment that all the templates are going to be XML-based. What does that mean? 08:15
(links welcome :) ) 08:16
masak wayland76: no, that's not quite what I mean, I think.
all the templates in the Genshi port will be XML based.
see the link to Genshi.
that's because the technology requires it in that case.
ihrd++ has plans for a simpler Templating engine which will not be XML based. 08:17
one which looks a bit more like PHP or JSP.
wayland76 Ok. Because my request was going to be that the templating engine work both inside and outside Web :) 08:19
masak wayland76: oh, of course.
we'll tend to build everything like that.
also, we'll tend to build everything to be as hot-swappable as possible.
wayland76 Because I use Text::Template a lot, and hate the multiple competing templates in Perl5 when HTML::Mason is clearly superior :) 08:20
masak checks out HTML::Mason
wayland76 The cool things about HTML::Mason are autohandlers and dhandlers :)
masak noted. 08:21
wayland76 The bad thing is it only works with a big setup around it :)
masak aye.
Web.pm will be a big setup, but on the other hand we don't want to paint people into a corner, or build them into a closed garden. 08:22
wayland76 I don't mind the big setup, but when doing sysadmin, I like something simple like Text::Template 08:23
masak yes, I can see the use for that. 08:24
wayland76: if you'd care to add a short paragraph about that in the PLAN file, you'd increase your chances of having it your way. 08:27
wayland76 I'll keep that in mind, and may get around to it in the next few days 08:30
masak cool.
I plan to blog a little now about the first week of Web.pm. 08:31
will mainly talk about the approach we seem to be taking, and some code reading I've done so far of Sinatra.
does anyone have a favourite bible quote? :) preferably something relevant to specs. 08:32
I've found Moses and the mountain so far.
wayland76 Proverbs might be a good source for that sort of thing 08:36
Or the first few chapters of Genesis (but of the tree in the centre of the garden, thou shalt not eat) 08:37
masak ooh. 08:38
good idea.
"An Ceiling Cat sed to teh man, ov evury tre in teh gardin iz ok u eatz: But of teh tre of teh nawlej of gud an evl, you not eatz cuz wen u eatz taht tre i fur sure mek u ded. Srsly." 08:40
perfect.
spinclad but of teh tre of lolaj of WAI an NOWAI eatz u not else KTHXBAI! 09:07
wayland76 masak: To edit that plan, I need my own fork, right? 09:09
masak wayland76: either that, or you just download my tree, edit and email me a patch.
but I guess the Github Way is to fork, yes. 09:10
wayland76 ok
masak plus, that would look good on paper, and might merit you a mention in my blog post if you hurry. :)
wayland76 Ok, I forked, I've changed the files, and git-diff agrees they're changed. How do I send you the changes? 09:19
git-diff | mail masak ?
masak wayland76: you forked on github?
wayland76 yes 09:20
But I didn't branch in my repo :)
masak if so, commit, push and then do a "pull request" through the web interface.
wayland76 typed "gut push" by accident :) 09:26
masak what a funny coincidence, I almost surfed to guthub just now.
maybe a good candidate for web squatting.
moritz_ already registered 09:27
masak dang.
all the gut urls are already taken. :P
wayland76 That one took me a while (monolingual here), but I got it :) 09:29
masak :P 09:30
wayland76: how's that pull request coming along? I'm proof-reading the blog post now. 09:33
wayland76 Well, I've sent one. Has it arrived at your end? 09:34
masak checks
it has indeed.
wayland76 Yay!
I'm hoping to send in a patch for rakudo later, so it was good to have a practise run :) 09:35
masak glad to be of assistance. :) 09:36
wayland76: I'm going to accept half of your commit. 09:49
re "Ideally, the templating system will also work in non-HTML, non-Web environments.", that is both implied (by the Ganshi tutorial page), and not really a goal of that layer of Web.pm -- we have other modules for people who don't like XML templating. 09:50
wayland76 I was hoping we could have just one templating module 09:52
But I'm happy if that doesn't go in the Web PLAN
masak wayland76: we'll have at least two templating modules as it looks now. 09:53
wayland76 Well, I don't like it, but I guess I can live with it :) 09:54
masak wayland76: I'm perfectly fine discussing it, and having you convince me that two kinds of needs exist. :) 09:55
until then, the answer is "just don't use one of them".
wayland76 But that's my problem -- sometimes I want to use templating with HTML, and sometimes without. If these are separate templating systems, then I have to learn both 10:01
Or force one of them to do something it's designed to prevent you from doing :)
masak wayland76: if I get my way, one will be a subset of the other. 10:02
wayland76 How about if we changed it to "Ideally, the lower levels of the templating system will also work in non-HTML, non-Web environments." 10:04
Would that work?
masak yes, but that's a given. no "ideally".
wayland76 Sounds fine, then :) 10:07
(ie., drop the "ideally")
masak aye.
I'll do that.
masak does 'git fetch wayland master' 10:08
wayland76: something in your work environment adds line-ending spaces. just thought you should know. 10:17
wayland76 What, on every line? 10:24
Or just the ones I was editing? 10:25
masak just yours. 10:27
wayland76 Ok. That only happens when it word wraps. And it doesn't bother me :) 10:36
Believe it or not, I use "nano" :)
masak I believe you.
but be aware that some people will be offended if you send patches with line-ending spaces.
(I don't mind much, but I'd rather not have them there, so I removed them.) 10:37
wayland76 Fine by me (about removing them). I'll worry about it when it happens, but thanks for the warning :) 10:40
masak perl -i.bak -pe's/ +$//' file 10:41
wayland76 ok :) 10:42
masak throw that in a script in a bin/ dir somewhere. problem solved. :)
12:02 ihrd joined
ihrd hi there 12:08
wayland76 hi :) 12:11
ihrd wayland76: hi, I am reding logs. Today my first night of the grant 12:12
start to diggin in all this opinions and links 12:13
masak ihrd: aloha. 12:15
ihrd I see some parts, but actualy do not have complite plan for this work
a lot of ways and posibilites
masak: HAI
masak ihrd: I think our topmost priority should be to move November over to Web.pm. 12:16
I'm not sure I know yet which parts we need for that.
maybe it'll be a piece-by-piece process.
no, strike that. most _likely_ it'll be a piece-by-piece process. :) 12:17
ihrd templater, routines, coockies + sessions, authorization
masak aye.
moritz_ please do authentication first
then authorization
masak moritz_: why?
ah.
sure.
moritz_ because it's the more basic task
ihrd :) 12:18
masak aye.
auth and sessions are somewhat bundled, I think.
we already have a templater, but we don't really like it.
ihrd: what do you mean by 'routines'?
ihrd masak: generaly, way to handle requests 12:19
masak like, dispatcher? 12:20
ihrd yes 12:21
masak great.
ihrd 'Routines' this is from the rails 12:22
masak ah.
ihrd in Catalyst you have Controllers and actions, and you set attributes for dispatcher 12:23
masak ok. 12:24
ihrd in rails you have one file routines.rb with DSL about how to handle URIs
masak ah.
do we need any DSLs for Web.pm?
because right now, we can't build'em in Rakudo.
ihrd Tags.pm is the some sort of DSL 12:25
masak which Tags.pm? from CPAN?
or the one Tene's about to build?
ihrd no, we speak about it... yes Tene`s
what you want to have in Rakudo for DSLs? 12:26
masak and by "DSL" here, you mean a lot of sub names that look like a whole new language, right?
sort of like CGI.
(from CPAN)
ihrd CGI is big, and handle the request and Tags helpers in one 12:27
masak aye. 12:28
just using it as an example of a "DSL" in Perl.
ihrd yes, basicle a lot of subs. I mean helpers for specific propouse
oh, excuse my English, awfull. I need spell dictionary for pidgin 12:29
masak it's going well so far, methinks.
I'll ask if I don't understand. 12:30
ihrd: did you read my report on the first week?
ihrd thank you
yes, I read all emails and you blog post. And reading logs of this chanel right now 12:31
masak excellent. 12:32
some people don't like the name Web.pm because they think it's too general. 12:33
I think Web.pm itself is fairly general. it does web things. 12:34
it does exactly what the name of the module says it does.
ihrd right now we do not have any strong conception, so I can`t prefer name. Web.pm is okay for my as work-name. 12:36
masak indeed.
but I think we should name all the components. 12:37
wayland76 Auth and Sessions can be are independent, but work together
masak wayland76: then what matters is to make them work well together.
wayland76 Yah, exactly 12:38
ihrd masak: yes, HTML::Tags, HTTP::Request, Template::Simple
masak ihrd: aye, maybe for those.
but for bigger things, like the MVC framework and some of the templaters, we should give them unique names. 12:39
like Rack, Sinatra, Genshi, Rails and Catalyst.
wayland76 My UserAuth package which I was talking about porting depends for at least some of its functionality on CGI::Session, CGI::Cookie, and Authen::Simple (or any other Authen module you want to slot in)
masak ok. 12:40
I'd like to see a detailed explanation about how that works. is there any CPAN Pod I should read? 12:41
s/Pod/POD/
wayland76 How which works?
the UserAuth package I did?
masak the interaction between UserAuth and the other CPAN modules.
wayland76 This was never submitted to CPAN -- I got lazy :) 12:42
I can zip it up and send it to you, though :)
It has documentation in it
masak I'd appreciate that. 12:44
wayland76 (same terms as perl itself, of course :) ) 12:45
masak aye. 12:47
how can Sinatra (and HTTP::Server::Simple::CGI from CPAN) act as a whole web server? 12:54
and, perhaps more importantly, should we try to do the same in Web.pm? 12:55
ihrd masak: okay, we need name. But first we need conception and architecture -- why and how we put all things together in f/w. As I say before, it is still a lot of parts and a lot of ideas about, not complite vision for now.
masak ihrd: agreed.
wayland76 I agree that at least level 1 should be called Web
masak I've started in PLAN to put together all I've every thought about the subject.
but much still remains. 12:56
and much work remains to turn it into a coherent whole.
wayland76 I don't think Web should act as a whole web server -- I think we should work with CGI in Apache, with mod_parrot, and with others to follow as people want them
ihrd I think dispatcher is one of the 'core' stuff
masak wayland76: maybe you're right that the upper levels shouldn't be called Web.pm -- that remains to be seen. for now, I don't want to exclude those level just becuase they're more advanced.
wayland76 masak: Agreed 12:57
masak wayland76: have you tried Sinatra?
there's something very alluring about writing five lines of code and then deploying it as a full stack web app.
wayland76 no. About the only thing I've actually tried is Drupal
ihrd I have too ideas I like here: 1) REST 2) :Chained 3) Routines
masak I'm not saying we should force the web server on anyone.
ihrd: please add them to PLAN if you have the time. 12:58
I can review it and polish the English if you want.
ihrd: simply a list of those three would be very good.
ihrd frankly speaking, my plans to work hard on the grant today is broken, btw I start immersion 13:00
masak: yes, I will do
masak ihrd: oh well. hope that you're free to do it soon.
wayland76 Don't worry, I failed in my goal today of having an up-to-date parrot RPM by the end of the day :)
13:02 rkendall joined
masak rkendall: welcome :) 13:02
13:02 ruoso joined
masak ruoso: welcome. :) 13:03
13:03 Matt-W joined
ihrd masak: I start today, my day 0 I think. I will work every day. 13:03
masak Matt-W: welcome. :)
ruoso anyway
masak ihrd: no worries. you make your schedule.
ruoso today's crazy idea follows:
masak ihrd: but it's good that we meet here to discuss sometimes, not just reading each other's commit messages. 13:04
ruoso one of the most important featuers I've been using in Catalyst is the fact that it is engine-agnostic
masak aye.
Matt-W masak: thought I should pop in and keep an eye on you :P
masak ruoso: what does that mean for you?
rkendall glad to be hear
masak Matt-W: aye, I need it.
ruoso I used Catalyst to build a XMPP client
masak oh, cool.
ruoso to build a CLI app
and even to embbed in some other cat app
masak ruoso: by engine, you mean things like Apache, yah? 13:05
ruoso yes
Catalyst::Engine::*
masak ok.
ruoso (myself being the author of two)
masak :)
ruoso but one thing Catalyst didn't make pluggable
was the semantics of the request 13:06
I always need to translate into HTTP semantics
even if I'm talking XMPP
masak ruoso: my current plan is to port Rack from Ruby.
ruoso Rack?
masak ruoso: I guess that one uses HTTP semantics as well.
ruoso: see PLAN in the Web.pm repo. 13:07
github.com/masak/web/tree/master/PLAN
ruoso link?
zarah masak's link is also tinyurl.com/7jywvo
ruoso masak, my point is that you have several pieces that will form your framework 13:10
masak wow, 12 people in here. that's a record. and three bots.
ruoso: indeed.
ruoso the biggest catalyst strength is to make those as separated as possible
that's actually the biggest RoR weakness
RoR is much more monolitic 13:11
rkendall ...it's also nice if it's easy to use all of the bits together
ruoso sure... I think the use of a custom grammar in the end will make that very easy 13:12
masak well, things like Sinatra could be said to be monolithic. but it's also nice to have before you choose a real engine. 13:13
ruoso: custom grammar for what?
ruoso controller Foo { action bar { } }
masak ah, yes. 13:15
but first, the underlying semantics. :) 13:16
ruoso well
masak it'll be a while yet before Rakudo has modifiable grammars.
ruoso the basic parts of that semantics are:
1) receiving a request
that's the "engine" part
it knows how to be triggered for an event
masak aye. 13:17
ruoso and generates a "Request" object
masak I, for one, think that Web.pm should be able to handle the engine part standalone if it has to.
but work well with Apache et al too.
ruoso in Catalyst the "Request" object is very HTTP-specific 13:18
this is something that can be fixed
you can have a much more generic "Request" role
and have a HTTPRequest role to complement it
masak ruoso: ok.
ruoso: sounds like a good thing.
ruoso this "Request" object is the thing that takes us to the second step
2) dispatch
masak aye. 13:19
ihrd++ is on top of that.
ruoso This takes info from $req in order to dispatch
masak November already has a dispatcher, even.
ruoso I think the generic request role would provide
has $.uri
masak needs to turn ruoso++'s steps into a diagram of some sort
ruoso has %.params
masak might be good to have a diagram to show people. 13:20
rkendall I would have thought the idea for Web.pm would be to be HTTP specific, otherwise isn't it stretching the scope a bit.
masak indeed.
ruoso rkendall, you sure can implement the Web part only, for now
but it doesn't hurt to make it extensible
rkendall I guess it bears thinking about 13:21
ruoso The mistake in Catalyst in the dispatch part
is to make each dispatch type independent
like
it first tries to dispatch "Regex"
if that fails
it tries "Chained"
if that fails "Path"
you need a way to provide an unified dispatching
I think the good way of doing it is basically to consider everything "Chained", while support different part matching algorigthms 13:22
masak aye, we talked about that the other day. 13:23
I emailed the discussion to the november-wiki mailing list.
ihrd liked the idea.
ruoso (look for Catalyst::DispatchType::Chained)
ihrd ruoso: hi, sorry, I have thoughts, but all my attention on the reading you chat, I have no time to answer :) English is not my original language, and I am tired now, so reading take all of me :)
masak ihrd++ # for trying 13:24
ruoso the third step is actually having no third step
;)
masak 3. ???
4. profit!
ihrd yes, I send email about this too, I like :Chained in Catalyst
masak ihrd: I like the fact that you know what ruoso++ is talking about :) 13:25
ruoso see Catalyst::Action::RenderView
most cat applications have a "end" action is a Catalyst::Action::RenderView
ihrd masak: you can read Manual::Intro for fast breif about types in Catalyst dispatcher
ruoso that only calls a "default" view if no response was set yet
masak ihrd: will do. thanks.
ruoso but that's app to the application, not to the framework
s/that's app/that's up/ 13:26
masak indeed.
ruoso that's a very important aspect of Catalyst
that's why it's so easy to use multiple views in the same app
masak it would be nice to eventually drop November over on an MVC framework. 13:27
but I'm afraid that is outside the scope of the grant.
ihrd: have you thought about the MVC framework and databases?
ruoso masak, I'd suggest not trying to implement a ORM in your framework 13:28
it should be external to it
masak ruoso: see earlier discussion about giving the larger parts real names.
ihrd ORM is a big deal
masak ruoso: at this point, I don't know if they will form a part of Web.pm in some real sense.
ruoso: perhaps they will just be very compatible on some API level, or some such. 13:29
ihrd we can`t make as part of this grnt
ruoso masak, you shouldn't expect any API on the model
that's also a big strength in Catalys
masak ruoso: I don't know what to expect yet. :)
ruoso masak, see Catalyst::Component
masak opens another tab in his browser 13:30
ihrd I use Catalyst a lot, so when I think about web MVC I thiking in Catalyst maner
ruoso ihrd, cool... 13:31
I think I need to subscribe to the list you're using... 13:32
where is it hosted?
masak, putting it simple... the thing that Catalyst really implements is the Controller part, both the model and the view are just in the "Component" level, which means that it is up to each implementation to decide what to do 13:33
they are named "Model" and "View"
so you can do
$c->model('Name')
instead of
masak ruoso: groups.google.com/group/november-wiki
ruoso $c->component('Model::Name')
zarah masak's link is also tinyurl.com/awn2o7
masak ruoso: ok. I need to read up on Catalyst, but I hear what you're saying. 13:34
ruoso while the application is running
Catalyst has this core variable "$c" 13:35
which, interestingly, is named "context"
then you have $c->request
$c->response
$c->session
$c->stash
and so on
that obviously can be replaced by
$*request
$*response
$*session 13:36
$*stash
actually
%*session
%*stash
that being said 13:37
$*request and $*response
might be expected to be declared by the engined
*engine
so the dispatch part can simply assume that
Ok... 13:38
now to the most important core aspect of how Catalyst works
which is Class::C3
Catalyst is so easily extensible because adding a plugin is just a matter of adding another superclass to the application 13:39
because every processing step always call $self->next::method
so all plugins can have code executed in any step of the processing 13:40
just by implementing that method and calling $self->next::method in the end
I'm not sure if $obj.*method() is supposed to do that, but I think not 13:43
or maybe yes...
but plugins should be translated as Roles in Perl 6
so you instantiate the application, and starts composing the roles of all the plugins 13:44
very much important
also
is that each action is really an object, not just a method
because you need to be able to compose roles there too
indeed... 13:50
after some testing
that can be represented in terms of multi methods, role composition and $obj.*method
so no need for next::method
masak, dev.catalystframework.org/old-wiki/...FlowChart/ 13:54
zarah ruoso's link is also tinyurl.com/djdc6j
masak ruoso: awesome.
ruoso masak, but mst has been saying that "begin" and "auto" should also be represented in terms of chained actions 13:59
masak okay.
ruoso "end" and "default" I think still need to be somewhat special
masak mm. 14:00
ruoso masak, but maybe they don't
maybe you can just consider an action that would match when no other did 14:01
as for default
and if everything is designed in terms of chained 14:03
you can consider that the action will be called in two phases
"execute" and "end"
masak ok. 14:04
ruoso then the same chain is used to end the request
masak this doesn't tell me much, since I don't know Catalyst yet.
but it's in the logs for when I do.
ruoso basically
an action is an object
where Catalyst calls "execute" 14:05
when it does,
it usually ends up executing the code that is in the sub
masak ok.
ruoso in order to generalize "end", it would call an additional method "end"
instead of doing a second dispatch to that
which is what cat does today
masak ok. 14:06
ruoso today cat does several dispatches in each request (as that flowchar shows)
begin, auto, the action itself, end
and optionally default
ihrd a lot of dispatch
ruoso the idea is to consolidate all of that into a single chained dispatch
masak sounds nice.
if it can be done, that is. 14:07
"as simple as possible, but no simpler"
ruoso one of the problems cat suffers today
is the lack of a difference between control exceptions and failures 14:08
which can be fixed in Web.pm
masak ruoso: do you have a concrete example of that?
ruoso masak, the block that explains how auto processes
it needs to check for a "false" return
also 14:09
masak uh huh.
ruoso when you want to "detour" the dispatch from a given point
it gets very confused
masak like me, right now. :)
what do you mean by "'detour' the dispatch"?
ruoso that can be solved by using ControlExceptions
let's say you're dispatching a chain 14:10
masak ok.
ruoso but at some point, you realise there's an error
masak during the dispatch?
ruoso while dispatching an inner action of a chain
masak ok.
ruoso masak, do you understand the common use of chained dispatch?
masak no, not at all.
this is not my department, it's ihrd's 14:11
ruoso say you have a blog
masak I'd like to understand it, but I simply haven't read up on it yet.
ruoso then you have the url
masak aye.
I'm with you so far. :)
ruoso /blog/category/foo/post/bar/comment/bla
masak sure.
ruoso that's usually represented as a set of chained actions
masak ok.
ruoso comment(1 arg) -> post(1 arg) -> category(1 arg) -> blog(0 args) 14:12
and they get executed from inner-to-outer
masak uh huh.
ruoso first the "blog" action, then "category", then "post" then "comment"
masak sounds reasonable.
ruoso but if the category doesn't exist, for instance 14:13
you might want to "detour" the dispatch
masak "short-circuit", perhaps?
"detour" means going away and then coming back later.
ruoso catalyst calls it $c->detach('/destination') 14:14
masak ok.
ruoso but when you mix that with eval blocks
it just gets very confusing
because that was supposed to be a control exception
ihrd $c->detach(/error404);
ruoso but there's no such thing in p5 14:15
masak right.
so this is all about meking use of Perl 6's exception handling.
I like that.
the best kind of code is no code.
ruoso so, the final picture 14:16
ihrd I hope we will make clear dispatcher
ruoso 1) the engine code is something external that declares $*request and $*response
where you have generic Request and Response roles
masak ihrd: there certainly doesn't seem to be a shortage of ideas, at least :)
ruoso but also specific Request::HTTP and Response::HTTP 14:17
or even
Request::Apache and Response::Apache
2) the dispatch code is something that tries to match an action using $*request
takes that action
calls $action.begin 14:18
$action.execute
$action.end
and that's all
masak likes that 14:19
ruoso it's important to realize that matching a request to an action 14:20
implies $*request ~~ $action 14:21
so you basically ends up with something similar to
given ($*request) { when $action1 { }; when $action2 {} }
but you'll never actually write that code, of cousre 14:22
masak that sounds very alluring.
it's a great way to explain it, too.
and it works perfect with perl 6.
more such things. :)
ruoso now the initialization part
which is the most hard
you need a simple way of getting all that declared 14:23
masak when loading the module? 14:24
yes.
ruoso ideally, you would have a custom grammar 14:27
masak we're not developing ideally right now, though. 14:28
we're writing working code.
but yes, noted. we want a custom grammar later.
ruoso so, the code will require some initialization overhead
masak right.
as long as we get the semantics right now, we can fix the syntax later.
ruoso basically, every controller will require something like 14:30
$*application.register_controller($?CLASS)
and every action would be something like... 14:31
my $action = Default::Action::Class.new();
$action does Chained; # for instance
masak right.
ruoso $action.chain($otheraction)
$action.chain = $otheraction; #actually
$action.pathpart = 'something'; 14:32
$action.captureargs = 1;
actually
my $controller = $?CLASS.ne 14:33
my $controller = $?CLASS.new
$controller.register_action($action);
moritz_ register-action
ruoso $*application.register_controller($controller) 14:34
masak :)
moritz_ dashes are allowed in identifiers, so USE THEM
masak moritz_: I've also switched over almost completely to dashes.
ruoso :)
masak need to go through my projects and dashify them completely some time.
ruoso $action does Chained{ :chain($otheraction), :pathpart('something') }; is also valid syntax
moritz_ whenever I see a propose to add some under_scored name to language it makes me cringe
masak need to start using the p6 colour scheme in vim as well, because dashes ruin the usual perl colour scheme. 14:35
moritz_: you should write a p6u mail about it.
moritz_ masak: I should. And/or blog about it
ruoso masak, actually
masak moritz_: aye.
ruoso: oh, parameterized roles FTW. 14:36
ruoso my $controller = Default::Controller::Class.new();
my $action = Default::Action::Class.new();
$action.begin = { do something };
$action.execute = { do something };
$action.end = { do something }; 14:37
moritz_ couldn't $action just be a sub, and you can wrap that if you want begin/end actions?
ruoso begin/end happen in a different time then execute 14:38
it first calls begin in the whole chain
then calls execute in the whole chain
and then end in the whole chain
thinking again 14:40
you don't really need controllers
except for the matter of organizing code in modules
so you just have 14:42
my $action = Action.new();
$action.begin = { do something };
$action.execute = { do something };
$action.end = { do something };
$action does Chained{ :path-part<something>, :parent($otheraction) };
$*application.register-action('/controller-name/local-name', $action); # so you get the private name for the action... 14:43
hmm... 14:44
"begin", "execute" and "end" are not good names for the attributes 14:45
probably better to have them as "begin-closure", "execute-closure" and "end-closure"
since you have the actual methods that invoke that closures called .begin, .execute and .end
ihrd so in your vision app is set of Action objects, chained actions. 14:50
ruoso the dispatching part of the app 14:51
yes
you still need to handle the other components
ihrd I will re-read this log tomorrow, when I will be cheeful, and ask my questions. thank you! 14:55
masak ihrd++
ruoso ihrd, masak, I'm doing some sketches on some roles that related to this discussion 14:56
ihrd (masak: this question can be stupid, add my karma if it is not)
masak :)
ruoso: cool.
I'm amazed at the way people volunteer in this Web.pm effort. 14:57
ruoso but I do think we're going to need a more generic name, tho ;)
masak thank you, noted. 14:59
ihrd I am going to sleep, bb
masak ihrd: see you around. 15:00
15:00 ihrd left
ruoso masak, I think I just had another crazy idea 15:39
masak let's hear it.
ruoso what if the URI -> Action matching is done by an application-wide grammar?
where dispatching the action is the action of the token? 15:40
masak that does indeed sound crazy :)
could you paste a piece of example code or sump'n?
ruoso I thought about it when I realized that matching the action will require to store match information
for capture args
masak aye.
ruoso and I would need to store the match in the request 15:41
to look there later
so it's probably better to make it a grammar
that calls the appropriate actions
that's actually very cool 15:42
because when matching
/blog/category/foo/post/bar
it could look for the category 'foo' during the matching
and fail that rule otherwise 15:43
allowing a different rule to proceed
masak that sounds cool. 15:46
ruoso masak, sial.org/pbot/35415
that's from before the latest crazy idea
masak ruoso: do you mind if I commit that to the Web.pm repo? 15:47
ruoso not at all
it's just that I hadn't cloned it yet 15:48
masak goes ahead
ruoso otherwise I would add it myself
15:51 Tene_ joined
ruoso masak, in that file, the run-action method should actually enclose the begin and execute in a try block which would put any exception into a context variable before runnnig .*end 15:52
masak uhm.
I didn't read it carefully, I just stored it away for when I'm ready to understand it. 15:53
don't ask me to modify source code I don't grok. :)
ruoso ok... I'll send another revision in a sec
(I should clone the repo at some point... but I can't do it right now) 15:54
sial.org/pbot/35421 - updated version of the notes I wrote 17:55

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