Parrot 0.6.3 "Beautiful Parrot" Released | parrotcode.org/ | 5/649/88 new/open/stalled tix | logged in irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today
Set by moderator on 17 June 2008.
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kid51 I think perl.org is having problems. 00:17
Maghnus What kind of problems? (I just connected) 00:19
PerlJam which perl.org? www.perl.org seems fine 00:20
Whiteknight yeah, it loaded up fine for me 00:22
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dalek r28569 | chromatic++ | trunk: 01:35
: [IMCC] Tidied code; improved documentation.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28569
r28570 | chromatic++ | trunk: 01:36
: [IMCC] Tidied code; improved documentation.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28570
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Limbic_Region lseen chromatic 02:22
seen chromatic
purl chromatic was last seen on #parrot 2 days and 5 hours ago, saying: 64-bit Fedora? [Jun 17 14:02:10 2008]
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cotto_yapc perl6: say $_ for 1..5; 07:20
polyglotbot OUTPUT[too few arguments passed (0) - 1 params expectedā¤current instr.: '_block11' pc 0 (EVAL_12:3)ā¤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;eval' pc 806 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:469)ā¤called from Sub 'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;evalfiles' pc 1088 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:598)ā¤called from Sub
..'parrot;PCT::HLLCompiler;command_line' pc 1267 (src/PCT/H...
moritz perl6: for 1..5 { say $_ }
polyglotbot OUTPUT[1ā¤2ā¤3ā¤4ā¤5ā¤]
moritz for statement modifier doesn't create an implicit block in rakudo 07:21
and $_ at the top level block is b0rked
cotto_yapc thanks
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dalek r28571 | bernhard++ | trunk: 09:16
: Remove trailing whitespace.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28571
TiMBuS heh, recursive functions dont work out so well if you implement functions as inline 09:30
dalek r28572 | bernhard++ | trunk: 09:36
: [Plumhead]
: Switched the PCT variant over from TGE to NQP actions.
: Simplify the parsing grammar and the NQP actions.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28572
barney is checking out the libs4php branch 09:41
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dalek r28573 | bernhard++ | trunk: 10:32
: [Plumhead]
: Merge in the 'libs4php' branch by fperrad++.
: Skip the test files with failures.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28573
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TiMBuS is there any way to make a temp var in PAST without naming it? at the moment im using lexically scoped vars inside blocks but its terribly inefficient 12:42
its a list/resizablepmcarray so i cant just nest it, because i need to push things onto it 12:43
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TiMBuS rafb.net/p/1fmyug10.html thats my current action. its not great but i cant seem to think of how to fix it. i dont think PAST was really designed to work like this 12:49
wow that site uses large tab indentation 12:50
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kj TiMBuS: what do you try to do? 13:06
not sure, but if you want to create a list, you could use the parrot calling conventions for that
check out how it's done in languages/squaak (and pynie does it too I think) 13:07
TiMBuS well my current convention works fine it just creates a whole lotta useless subs
which creates a whole lotta useless overhead when the language pretty much runs on lists 13:08
kj ok. but you're trying to create a list object with values inside?
TiMBuS yes
[1 2 [3 4 +]] etc
kj ok, then it's much easier to take advantage of the built-in calling conventions
of parrot
check out languages/squaak, and the creation of arrays. It's really easy
and short 13:09
and efficient, as it's implemented in C
TiMBuS i did look at squaak's one but i only say it implement keyed arrays
kj but [1 2 3 4] creates a list with [0] = 1, [1] = 2 etc, right? 13:10
TiMBuS yes
kj so, when creating a PAST for that, just create a PAST::Op( :pasttype('call'), :name('@some_array_constructor_pir_sub') ) 13:11
and push the PAST nodes for 1, 2, 3 and 4 as children on that PAST::Op, so they're passed as arguments
and the @some_array-constructor_pir_sub should take a :slurpy argument, which will be a ResizablePMCArray
which you then just return (or if you want to convert it into soething different, do it there, and return that) 13:12
TiMBuS wow, didnt even think of making a pir sub to do it for me 13:13
kj neat huh? :-) 13:15
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TiMBuS there should be a 'makearray' method on array pmc's 13:18
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TiMBuS wow 13:31
dalek bernhard.schmalhofer@gmx.de | Plumhead:
link: www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?plumhead
TiMBuS so that worked way too easy 13:32
now to turn pretty much the entire stack generation code into the same thing
dalek r28574 | bernhard++ | trunk: 13:34
: [Plumhead]
: Unskip the failing tests and mark them as TODO instead.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28574
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dalek r28575 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09: 13:43
: [gsoc_pdd09] update to trunk r28574
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28575
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DietCoke Aigh. Left my notes regarding tcl on pct that I wrote on the plane in my bag again. 13:51
DietCoke wanted to get that email out to patrick today.
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DietCoke seen pmichaud? 13:57
purl pmichaud was last seen on #parrot 2 days and 19 hours ago, saying: RakudoRuby? RakudoPHP? [Jun 17 12:12:23 2008]
DietCoke is there a way at the moment to -declare- code should be run before an existing invoke? I am expecting I'd need to inject some code into the beginning of my sub by hand. 14:01
dalek r28576 | bernhard++ | trunk: 14:03
: [Plumhead (Pipit)]
: Rename Plumhead.pg to grammar.pg as in most other PCT based languages
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28576
14:04 jhorwitz joined
DietCoke mdiep? 14:10
purl mdiep is Matt Diephouse <mailto:matt@diephouse.com> matt.diephouse.com/parrot or .
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Whiteknight DietCoke, you can use an inline PIR node to write the code you want inserted, and when you process a subroutine make sure to push that in to the sub's node first 14:25
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DietCoke Whiteknight: well, I'm used to writing ONLY handrolled pir, so that sounds plausible. =-) 14:45
Whiteknight: i was wondering more from the PIR level, though, not PCT. 14:50
for example, given an existing entry in an namespace, can I say "whenever someone tries to invoke this, invoke this other thing first."
TiMBuS function hooks 14:56
jhorwitz DietCoke: i have code that resolves subs in interpolated namespaces before calling them. it's for rakudo, so it's PCT, but all the execution happens at runtime. 15:04
it uses the method Whiteknight was talking about
DietCoke yes, but you need to build in that support at -compile- time, neh? 15:06
which doesn't work for pre-existing subs.
-> meeting
jhorwitz DietCoke: right. 15:07
davidfetter re 15:11
jhorwitz waves at davidfetter 15:14
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davidfetter what's new & good, jhorwitz ? 15:15
jhorwitz my flight out of o'hare was on time yesterday. miracles can happen. 15:16
davidfetter so was mine. can't say the same about the one out of denver
but my upgrades came through :)
jhorwitz sweet 15:17
davidfetter yeah, they have nice seats
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Tene jhorwitz: I'll be in PHL tomorrow and sunday, and in KoP until the next Friday. 15:30
jhorwitz Tene: oh yeah
i'm putting up adam kennedy for a few nights. PHL.pm is likely having a dinner monday or tues night if you'd like to attend. 15:31
Tene I might. 15:32
jhorwitz but i'm up for dinner/beer in KOP too. :)
Whiteknight KOP? that's right in my back yard 15:34
DietCoke thank adam for the picture he took with my iphone. =-)
Tene adam kennedy?
purl somebody said adam kennedy was Alias or ADAMK or search.cpan.org/~adamk/
Tene Ah.
davidfetter blueberry?
purl hmmm... blueberry is CanyonMAD's favorite pie.
Tene purl++
DietCoke strawberry?
purl i guess strawberry is a Perl for Windows that works just like Perl everywhere else. See win32.perl.org/wiki/index.php?title...berry_Perl
jhorwitz yeah, sometimes i forget to use his, um, alias. :) 15:35
DietCoke I didn't know that was he. 15:36
(until yapc)
er, he was him?
DietCoke barbies, "Grammar is Haaaard". 15:37
Tene This might be an interesting trip. I found out on monday that I might suddenly not have a place to stay for tonight and tomorrow.
jhorwitz LOL
DietCoke tene: uhoh.
jhorwitz worst case, i have a second bed in the guest room. 15:38
Tene Eh, I think I have some relatives near there I can harass.
Thanks for the offer. I'll keep it in mind. :)
Oops, boardingnow.
DietCoke alias++ # my stupid perl app works on windows, it seems.
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pmichaud generic pong 16:05
jhorwitz waves at pmichaud 16:06
dalek r28577 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 16:08
: [rakudo]:
: * Update spectest-progress.csv (65 files, 792 passing)
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28577
DietCoke pmichaud: pong. 16:22
Infinoid: you wrote an svn-bisect tool, right?
Infinoid yeah, I did 16:23
DietCoke ah, there it is. cpan was sucking for a moment.
Infinoid I've got some outstanding todos for that tool, should have a new release out this weekend if I can find a spare timeslice 16:24
DietCoke I'm updating my module (now that jerry's an author and someone is watching). wanted to make sure that I pointed to your module in the SEE ALSO. 16:26
Infinoid awesome. I will reciprocate, thanks for the reminder. 16:28
pmichaud DietCoke: got your message re: tcl on pct -- will be looking at it in detail in a bit 16:29
(trying to catch up on messages from yesterday)
wifi at iit was just about useless for me yesterday morning, and the rest of the day was mostly travel-related stuff.
this morning I have $otherjob things to take care of :-|
jonathan pmichaud: I got a couple of things done yesterday, just roles and types things plus a bit of refactoring to improve the code. That's breif summary. :-) 16:30
pmichaud jonathan: yes, I read the details and looked at the diffs already. Very impressive work.
jonathan Hopefully, it's correct too. :)
pmichaud I'm very happy to see ::T implemented.
most of what I saw looked quite sane (and cleaned up some cruftiness from before) so I'm pretty comfortable with these patches. 16:31
jonathan It's one of the many things leading to parametric roles.
pmichaud one question -- did the dynop really need to be a dynop? Could it have been a method?
jonathan Got some of how to do that worked out. Other bits, I still need the "bingo" moment. 16:32
Method on?
pmichaud I dunno
jonathan It needs writing in C.
pmichaud methods can be written in C
jonathan Yeah, I didn't know either, thus why it felt more op-ish.
pmichaud perhaps Class
Zaba what's ::T? 16:33
jonathan Hmmm. Maybe, but the point is that it's an operation on an object rather than a class - it's changing the object's class.
pmichaud I know that for many other things (e.g., "add_parent") we do them as methods, so I'm wondering why this one wouldn't fit that model.
jonathan Zaba: sub foo(::T $x) { ... } # you can now use T in the sub anywhere you'd use a type, and it's same type as $x had 16:34
pmichaud I'm fine with the dynop -- I'm just thinking in terms of other similar features.
Zaba ah, so like C++ templates? :>
jonathan In that both provide ways to do parametric polymorphism, yes.
(parametric polymorphism aka parameterized types aka generics...) 16:35
pmichaud I think the feature should ultimately reside in the Parrot core, and I have a feeling that it's easier to justify as a method than as an opcode.
(but yes, the question of "method on what" still remains.)
anyway, fantastic work. I am truly impressed.
jonathan Knowing the object model guts kinda helped. ;-) 16:36
pmichaud yes, but also getting it into the actions.pm and other compiler components is also a significant part of it.
Zaba svn ups
jonathan Yeah. It's was amongst the trickier stuff that I've put in. 16:37
Parametric roles will be harder still, mind.
Zaba parametric roles? 16:38
pmichaud (harder still) well, that's why I'm glad you're here. :-)
jonathan role Foo[::TypeParam, ::Another] { ... }
Zaba ah
can classes be like that too?
jonathan No, just roles. 16:39
Zaba why not classes?
jonathan <implementers hat on> because the spec doesn't say you can do it for classes
Zaba so for each class that takes a parameter I will need to make a role?
jonathan Well, you specify the parameters as you compose it into a class 16:40
Zaba *marketing mode on* so implement it as an extension to the standard, so more people will use rakudo! *hides*
pmichaud "implement as extension" --> "create a module for" :-) 16:41
jonathan Zaba: I don't really have a Good Answer to your question, right now - I'll think on it some.
Of course, perl6-langauge is the best place for "why is Perl 6 the way it is" style questions.
pmichaud one nice thing about Perl 6 is that "embrace and extend" is a part of the language itself. :-)
Zaba pmichaud, nono, it must be hardcoded, enforced and warned about if not used! *hides further*
jonathan warn "OMG you didn't use parameteric polymorphism in your program you're doing it wrong n00b!" 16:42
Zaba exactly :>
pmichaud, yeah, it's a nice feature indeed
but it can lead to confusion when overused..
pmichaud well, it's "embrace and extend" with good boundaries. :-) 16:43
Zaba it's like with perl5, I guess. Niceness of the code entirely depends on the coder :>
pmichaud somewhat, but perl6 has better fences. 16:44
("strong fences make good neighbors")
Zaba it's harder to write obfuscated code in perl6
_shane If I am trying to get started helping with parrot, what exactly should I be doing? I'm very interested after attending yapc. 16:45
pmichaud _shane: are you interested more specifically in parrot or in perl 6?
_shane More parrot.
jhorwitz was hoping for mod_parrot. :) 16:46
pmichaud heh
_shane But whereever help is needed, I'd love to lend a hand.
pmichaud I'm thinking about a journal post on mod_lightning. That was still very cool.
_shane The main thing I understood is you need tests writen?
jhorwitz spread the hype, pmichaud. :) 16:47
_shane That seems the most accessible for a newbie to the project?
pmichaud jhorwitz: are you attending yapc::eu? and if not, perhaps I could present mod_lightning there?
jhorwitz no, i'm not at YAPC::EU
pmichaud perl 6 needs tests, yes. parrot can also use tests, definitely.
_shane: what sort of C background do you have?
jhorwitz you could present mod_lightning -- i have notes i made for myself so you can do it too. :)
_shane pmichaud: I've coded a bunch of things in C, but never anything beyond a hash tree. It's not something I code with on a daily basis. 16:48
pmichaud _shane: I'd be interested in seeing someone pick up the new implementation of Parrot strings 16:49
but my guess is that we should get you with chromatic, allison, particle, or DietCoke as far as where Parrot could use the most help right now
oh!
you could always search the RT queue for tickets (especially those marked "[CAGE]")
that's also a good place to get started 16:50
_shane OK.
Zaba has more C++ experience than C
Zaba wrote a few patches to one C++ program :>
pmichaud the [CAGE] tickets are parrot cleanup efforts -- places where we know that the code needs some improvement but no real functional change.
_shane That sounds like my style.
jonathan It's a good way to get to know the codebase.
_shane Yeah. 16:51
pmichaud Yes. NotFound++ started by doing some cleanups and has been submitting some very useful/important improvements to Parrot
jonathan Indeed. I'd be very happy to see more of that. :-)
OK, time for me to go study some Slovak, eat dinner and watch soccer. afk for a while. 16:53
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pmichaud DietCoke: Perhaps a good FAQ: "I'd like to contribute to Parrot. Where should I start?" 16:53
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jhorwitz pmichaud: i will send you my notes and the apache configs for mod_lightning 17:03
davidfetter mmm...lightning :d 17:04
btw, where are we supposed to send slides from yapc::na?
jhorwitz you can link to them from the wiki
jhorwitz still needs to convert to PDF
or do a slideshare
pmichaud jhorwitz++ 17:10
DietCoke ~~ at jeff. 17:26
pmichaud: added to my todo list. 17:30
pmichaud: do my tcl ramblings look sane to you?
pmichaud what I've read thus far, yes. I need to read them more closely for comprhension, though. 17:31
jhorwitz ~~ back 17:33
DietCoke hokay.
jhorwitz DietCoke: flight ok? 17:35
davidfetter anybody here have an "in" with OSDC/Syndey?
www.confz.com/index.php/au/2008
davidfetter looking to exert undue influence ;)
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cotto_yapc waves back 17:51
DietCoke jhorwitz: I got there insanely early, had to throw out some toiletries to check in, but fine. 17:56
jhorwitz cool
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dalek r28578 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09: 18:31
: [gsoc_pdd09] rearrange sweep phase to be more incremental, update related flags, macros, and functions
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28578
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dalek r28579 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09: 18:44
: [gsoc_pdd09] fix a few bugs, including some I just created. Refactor some code, and fill in some basic increment rules.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28579
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dalek r28580 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09: 19:05
: [gsoc_pdd09] a few more small fixes, comments, move header stuff into the header.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28580
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dalek r28581 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09: 20:03
: [gsoc_pdd09] Fix all function declarations to be headerizer-approved, add function prototypes as created by headerizer. Misc cleanup
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28581
r28582 | coke++ | tcl_pct: 20:05
: Simple rename of language shell's 'say' to 'puts'
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28582
r28583 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09: 20:10
: [gsoc_pdd09] Adding a suspiciously missing file that was killing my manifest check in configure.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28583
spinclad re warn "para poly": "but, but, sure i used parametric polymorphism! look, '3 + 4'!" 20:13
dalek r28584 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
: [gsoc_pdd09] update MANIFEST to include the new files I've added
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28584
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bacek morning everyone 20:47
dalek r28585 | japhb++ | trunk: 20:50
: [OpenGL] shapes.pir: Temporary fix for broken OpenGLs
: * For now, don't enable GL_POINT_SMOOTH, because it's broken on many systems
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28585
bacek seen pmichaud 20:58
purl pmichaud was last seen on #parrot 3 hours and 26 minutes ago, saying: what I've read thus far, yes. I need to read them more closely for comprhension, though.
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japhb donaldh: While I've got you here ... can you test the regenerated version of your OpenGL / cygwin patch that I attached to RT #55978? ( rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=55978 ) 21:32
The one dated June 18
donaldh sure
japhb thanks
donaldh japhb: I'm just reinstalling cygwin, so give me 5 mins 21:34
japhb np
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donaldh japhb: sorry, I can't resolve a link problem I have on Vista. 22:20
japhb: I've been chasing a glut link problem for a while. It's not specific to parrot/opengl
japhb: I can't verify the patch here. I have cygwin on Windows XP at work, but am off for a week now. 22:21
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dalek r28586 | jkeenan++ | trunk: 22:38
: Test 157 does not need to be TODO-ed as it has a 'skip:' trailer in t/op/sprintf_tests.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28586
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dalek r28587 | jkeenan++ | trunk: 22:54
: Improve POD formatting.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28587
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