Parrot 0.9.0 | parrot.org/ | 468 RTs remain
Set by moderator on 11 February 2009.
Tene_ Wait, I thought our support policy was that any bytecode generated by any release of Parrot from 1.0 on should run unmodified on any later release of Parrot, right? 00:02
;)
chromatic And you should win stuff for using it, like a Unicorn which generates candy. 00:03
NotFound Currently we cannot make sure it runs unmodified in the same release. 00:04
Check: write some code that uses an integer constant that does not fit in 32 bits. Compile it to bytecode in a 64 bits environment. Tray to execute it in a 32 bit environment. 00:05
chromatic Our support policy says we'll do our best, and we'll provide migration tools, but the best guarantee of compatibility is to use PCT.
NotFound chromatic++ Inspiring text 00:08
00:08 AndyA joined
chromatic Thanks. 00:09
Coke_afk chromatic+=2.7 00:47
chromatic 2.7?
Coke karmee 00:49
chromatic Why 2.7? 00:50
cotto e? 00:51
Coke chromatic: no particular reason. stop looking for patterns in the chaos.
chromatic Right, if you're anything, you're not subtle. 00:52
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Whiteknight my stupid branch is giving me very unpredictable results today 01:23
it was working last night. Tonight, it won't even build and I haven't made any changes
Infinoid what's the error? 01:26
purl Infinoid: Network dropped connection on reset
Whiteknight different errors every time
last time, miniparrot segfaulted.
the time before that, one of the build steps returned the exit code 0xfd
last night it was working perfectly 01:27
okay, the problem magically went away with a fresh checkout 01:34
dalek rrot: r36653 | whiteknight++ | branches/rename_pccinvoke/src/pmc/cpointer.pmc:
[rename_pccinvoke] gut the src/pmc/cpointer.pmc:mark routine, since this is only used in places where there is nothing here to be marked.
 01:36
chromatic When was that un-gutted? I gutted it months ago, because it was unnecessary. 01:48
Whiteknight i dont know, but it's currently not like that in trunk 01:49
and I certainly didn't add it
i mean, i could. I'm capable 01:50
the funny thing is that gutting that function fixes 2 of the 3 failed tests I was seeing yesterday
anyway, I'm heading to bed now. later 01:51
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dalek rrot: r36654 | jkeenan++ | branches/update_pod/lib/Parrot/Test/Pod:
Add a directory to hold a new module.
 02:02
pmichaud Andy: how the book? 02:05
Andy done tonight
pmichaud yay! congrats! 02:08
particle andy++ congrats! 02:11
Andy Thanks
I just got a fantastic praise quote from Ed Yourdon.
I'm highly honored.
particle sweet. enjoy the karmic royalties from that quote :) 02:13
soccer && beer &
cotto beer depends on the success of soccer? 02:16
02:17 jimmy joined
jimmy Good morning, all. btw: what's the book? 02:17
dalek rrot: r36655 | petdance++ | trunk/src:
lots of random consting
 02:24
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dalek rrot: r36656 | jkeenan++ | branches/update_pod:
Extracted identify_files_for_POD_testing() from t/doc/pod.t and placed it in
 02:36
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dalek rrot: r36657 | jkeenan++ | branches/update_pod/config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
Add '.pod_examinable.sto' to target 'test-clean'.
 03:01
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dalek rrot: r36658 | allison++ | trunk:
[cage] Top-level copyright statment updates.
 05:23
rrot: r36659 | allison++ | trunk/src:
[cage] Copyright updates in src/ directory.
 05:25
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dalek rrot: r36660 | rurban++ | trunk/src/ops/io.ops:
Add a missing fix for TT #313, forgotten in r36638

This fixes the immediate problem and all tests, but it might be an alternative to change it in src/spf_render.c, our internal snprintf.		 06:11
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jimmy Had TT #313 been fixed. 07:45
Had TT #313 been fixed?
sorry, I shouldn't ask here. 07:46
lu_zero ^^; 07:49
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Gerd "make perl6" is gone, Are there plans to arrange it again? 08:07
jimmy perl6?
purl well, perl6 is see Perl 6
jimmy Perl 6?
purl somebody said Perl 6 was amazing.
jimmy rakudo?
purl rakudo is probably The Way of The Camel or in languages/perl6 (svn.perl.org/parrot/trunk/languages/perl6) or use.perl.org/~pmichaud/journal/35400 or rakudo.org or Part of this balanced breakfast!
jimmy Gerd: perl6 had been moved to github 08:09
github?
purl it has been said that github is a repository-centric social network for hackers where $friending eq $cloning_a_repo -- github.com/ or a cocoaruby interface to git : github.com/Caged/gitnub/wikis/home or really nice or a good place
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Gerd So there is no plan to integrate the "git clone" command in a "make perl6"? 08:10
mberends Gerd: masak++ is working on a prototype installer called 'proto' 08:11
github.com/masak/proto/tree/master
moritz Gerd: no. Rakudo depends on parrot, not the other way round, so there's no use in building a reverse dependency from parrot 08:13
jimmy perl6 examples is github.com/eric256/perl6-examples/tree/master
purl: perl6 examples is github.com/eric256/perl6-examples/tree/master 08:14
purl i already had it that way, jimmy.
jimmy perl6 examples?
purl i think perl6 examples is github.com/eric256/perl6-examples/tree/master
jimmy proto? 08:15
purl it has been said that proto is to start at the lowest and use the first available. The client should be configurable.
jimmy proto is also github.com/masak/proto/tree/master 08:16
purl okay, jimmy.
jimmy proto?
purl hmmm... proto is to start at the lowest and use the first available. The client should be configurable. or github.com/masak/proto/tree/master
mberends jimmy++ # teaching purl new tricks
jimmy mberends: my pleasure. :) 08:18
GeJ Gerd: You also can : perl Configure.pl [nice options here] && cd languages && make co-rakudo 08:21
Gerd Thank you for the information. I think Rakudo will be the main target for Parrot. So it would be nice to compile the current sources easy from one place.
jimmy q: Why parrot_config.exe is not removed by 'make clean' ? 08:23
jimmy is curious to know it. 08:24
mberends has no idea. there was a realclean != really clean issue yesterday
moritz yes, but it was a different file that was wrong 08:25
GeJ I don't know. For now, it may be right that Rakudo is the main reason we have Parrot, but the fact that we can have lua, tcl, php and others makes me believe that many other powerful tools may come in the future and use Parrot as their VM.
jimmy and parrot_config.exe? 08:26
08:32 alvar joined 08:41 riffraff joined
riffraff hi 08:44
jimmy hello 08:46
bacek hi there 09:03
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bacek wanders why my replies in RT didn't hit reach mailing list... 09:17
moritz bacek: there's a lot of lag wrt RT mails 09:21
bacek moritz: more than 3 days?
moritz bacek: that would be unusual 09:23
bacek moritz: yeah...
dalek rrot: r36661 | fperrad++ | trunk:
[Lua] moves to github.com/fperrad/lua
 09:48
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dalek rrot: r36662 | rurban++ | trunk/xconf/samples:
[cage] add new auto::neg_0 step to samples
 10:01
rrot: r36663 | rurban++ | trunk/xconf/samples:
[cage] additionally to r36662: add auto::pod2man
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dalek rrot: r36664 | fperrad++ | trunk:
[Lua] moves to github.com/fperrad/lua
 10:11
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dalek tracwiki: v49 | fperrad++ | Languages 10:14
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Langua...version=49
rrot: r36665 | kjs++ | trunk/compilers/pirc/src:
[pirc] update Copyright; s/The Perl/Parrot/
 10:20
rrot: r36666 | kjs++ | trunk/compilers/pirc:
[pirc] more copyright updates.
 10:23
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dalek rrot: r36667 | fperrad++ | trunk:
[codingstd] fix SVN properties
 10:28
rrot: r36668 | fperrad++ | trunk/NEWS:
[Lua] moves to github.com/fperrad/lua
 11:03
rrot: r36669 | fperrad++ | trunk/MANIFEST.generated:
[Lua] moves to github.com/fperrad/lua
 11:04
rrot: r36670 | fperrad++ | trunk:
[Lua] is gone
 11:20
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dalek rrot: r36671 | rurban++ | trunk:
[tools] TT #258 Add pdb_disassmble options, enable roundtrips with -b
 12:25
rrot: r36672 | rurban++ | trunk/NEWS:
[cage] NEWS pbc_disassemble
 12:27
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dalek rrot: r36673 | fperrad++ | trunk/NEWS:
update NEWS
 12:37
kudo: 19c0210 | jnthn++ | src/parser/grammar.pg:
Add better error message for else blocks on unless - a copy/paste from STD.pm.
 12:49
shorten dalek's url is at xrl.us/bef4tq
dalek kudo: 74d73d9 | jnthn++ | src/parser/actions.pm:
Refactor handling of smart-match so we can implement the special syntactic forms, and add the .foo special form.
 12:50
shorten dalek's url is at xrl.us/bef4ty
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dalek kudo: 6059ad9 | jnthn++ | src/classes/Signature.pir:
Fix is copy trait for arrays and hashes. Resolves RT#60966.
 13:38
shorten dalek's url is at xrl.us/bef4wa
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dalek kudo: 3e1a5e8 | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
integration/man-or-boy.t now passes again due to @recent_fix.pick, add it back to spectest.data.
 13:45
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shorten dalek's url is at xrl.us/bef4wn
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jimmy t/compilers/imcc/syn/file................... Dubious, test returned 4 (wstat 1024, 0x400) Failed 4/14 subtests (less 1 skipped subtest: 9 okay) 13:48
confused me. always more fails than another computer with mswin32 and different cpu(amd and intel). 13:51
rurban make realclean ? 13:53
purl make realclean is sometimes need in parrot to work against missing dependencies
jimmy yes
the difference is different cpu and compiled with icu 13:54
rurban amd and intel are both tested on mswin32. which compiler? 13:55
jimmy strawberry perl
purl somebody said strawberry perl was found at strawberryperl.com/
rurban mingw, which gcc? 3.4.5 I assume
gcc (GCC) 3.4.5 (mingw-vista special r3) 13:56
jimmy wait
yes 13:57
rurban also tested ok, on both cpu's. can you test without jit? --jitcapable=0 13:58
jimmy all tests passed on amd with mswin32 and without icu, but failed 63 tests on intel with mswin32 with icu. all used gcc (GCC) 3.4.5 13:59
see smolder.plusthree.com/app/public_pr...ils/17984. 14:00
shorten jimmy's url is at xrl.us/bef4xq
jimmy I think build without icu, it still failed 63 tests. 14:01
should I give a smoke without icu? 14:02
ruban: perl Configure.pl --jitcapable=0 ? 14:03
ah, xrl.us/bef4xq is without icu also. 14:05
rurban ah, I see a possible problem with g++ and the only one c++ lib, icu 14:06
jimmy i didn't use icu
rurban but this still just sjlj, not dw2.
jimmy using icu or no is the same result. 14:07
I think using --jitcapable=0 is the same result too. 14:10
because t/compilers/imcc/syn/file failed again. 14:11
dalek rrot: r36674 | whiteknight++ | trunk/docs/book/ch02_getting_started.pod:
[Book] Add some explanation here, remove a half-written sentence. hexcoder++ for the suggestions.
rurban which svn rev? 14:12
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jimmy r36673 14:12
It failed 60+ tests for 4 months. 14:13
rurban can you do make smoke so I can see the results on smolder 14:14
dalek rrot: r36675 | whiteknight++ | trunk/docs/book/ch02_getting_started.pod:
[Book] one other small typo that I missed. hexcoder++
jimmy smolder.plusthree.com/app/public_pr...ails/17984
shorten jimmy's url is at xrl.us/bef4xq
jimmy seems that it always failed when load a file. 14:17
smolder.plusthree.com/app/public_pr...ails/17985 is built with --jitcapable=0 14:23
shorten jimmy's url is at xrl.us/bef42x
jimmy ruban: It is independent of icu. 14:24
dalek kudo: 9a5c690 | jnthn++ | src/parser/actions.pm:
Fix NULL PMC accesses in various cases where we have empty blocks. Resolves RT#61034.
 14:51
shorten dalek's url is at xrl.us/bef456
dalek rrot: r36676 | particle++ | trunk/t/perl/Parrot_Distribution.t:
[t] fix plan
 15:00
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rob I am getting a strange error in PCT: too few arguments passed (2) - 3 params expected 15:07
and I am having difficulty tracing it back to an action, any suggestions on how to debug it? 15:08
PerlJam doesn't it give you a line number or sub name or something? 15:09
jonathan rob: Do you have a backtrace from where it occurs?
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rob it gives me a sub, but if I place a panic in the top of that sub it doesn't get called 15:09
jonathan Try it in one down from that. 15:10
The thing at the top of the trace is probably what got called without enough arguments.
rob my rule doesn't have any arguments accept for $/ which is a bit strange 15:11
PerlJam paste the code. 15:13
paste the backtrace.
rob oo few arguments passed (2) - 3 params expected 15:15
current instr.: 'porcupine;Porcupine;Grammar;Actions;block' pc 19421 (src/gen_actions.pir:1502)
called from Sub 'porcupine;Porcupine;Grammar;block' pc 2936 (src/gen_grammar.pir:1071)
called from Sub 'porcupine;Porcupine;Grammar;TOP' pc 708 (src/gen_grammar.pir:196)
called from Sub 'porcupine;PCT;HLLCompiler;parse' pc 665 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:400)
called from Sub 'porcupine;PCT;HLLCompiler;compile' pc 428 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:301)
called from Sub 'porcupine;PCT;HLLCompiler;eval' pc 920 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:519)
called from Sub 'porcupine;PCT;HLLCompiler;evalfiles' pc 1275 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:688)
called from Sub 'porcupine;PCT;HLLCompiler;command_line' pc 1456 (src/PCT/HLLCompiler.pir:778) 15:16
PerlJam er, not here.
rob called from Sub 'porcupine;Porcupine;Grammar;Actions;main' pc 21107 (porcupine.pir:65)
PerlJam use a pastebot
rob oops sorry
jonathan rob: Probably the block rule in your grammar and the block action are most relevant 15:17
rob: Use nopaste.snit.ch
rob ok
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nopaste "rob" at 164.11.204.52 pasted "block rule and action" (12 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/15608 15:19
rurban config/gen/platform/generic/memalign.c:41: warning: implicit declaration of function `posix_memalign' knwn? 15:20
jonathan rob: Hmm. Nothing looks immediately wrong there. :-S 15:24
PerlJam rob: what does src/gen_actions.pir look like around line 1502?
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rurban #undef PARROT_HAS_POSIX_MEMALIGN 15:25
#define PARROT_HAS_MEMALIGN
fixes it for me
so the configure detection is wrong now
nopaste "rob" at 164.11.204.56 pasted "gen_action.pir line 1502" (7 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/15609 15:26
jonathan Hmm. So why on earth does it generate the " .param pmc param_481" 15:27
That's...really odd.
PerlJam rob: do you have any invisible characters on the {*} line from your block grammar? 15:28
jonathan Just to be sure - delete the genreated .pir file and try make again...
rob yea its wierd further down in that sub .lex "$key", param_481
PerlJam rob: that's normal ... if you have a key.
jonathan Aye, but the code that was pasted...didn't. 15:29
rob not that I am aware, I will run a make clean and remove any hidden chars
PerlJam I think maybe the code generator is thinking there's a key there if there happens to be any characters at the end of the line.
(assuming there's a bug there)
alternatively, did you have a key at one time and got rid of it?
dalek rrot: r36677 | particle++ | trunk/config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
[config] add useful utils to default 'all' make target, effectively making 'all' the same as 'world'.
 15:31
rob yea
jonathan rob: My first guess is that somehow, the genertaed PIR is out of date with regard to the source NQP. 15:32
A make clean ; make may help
PerlJam rob: yes, you had a key and got rid of it? Then you're looking at an old generated code. What jonathan said.
jonathan Or at least eliminate that possibility.
jimmy rurban: Is there any ways to fix these fails?
rob yea tried that 15:33
rurban I'm just very busy now getting my deprecetion stuff in...
PerlJam idly wonders how hard it would be to make the key param :optional
rob no luck, still an extra param in the generated sub
hmm
jimmy rurban: maybe create a ticket for that. 15:34
rurban please do.
and add the smolder url and myconfig content
jimmy but I don't know how to describe it for various fails.
smolder will be cleaned after some times. 15:35
rurban smolder, exact failure messages and myconfig should be enough
will look tommorrow.
failure messages will stay
rob arrg! 15:36
spotted it, there was an old block sub hanging around further down my code
jimmy ok, thanks.
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jonathan rob: Ah, that'd do it... 15:36
rob I am such a muppet!
jonathan (Of course, woulda been helpful if NQP had told you about that...)
rob heh 15:37
one thing I have noticed that I can't call NQP's print sub from my actions, is this intentional?
jonathan rob: No, I think that should work. Does say work? 15:39
(Note that if your language has its own print built-in, you may end up calling that one.)
dalek rrot: r36678 | moritz++ | trunk/NEWS:
Rakudo NEWS
 15:40
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rob no say doesn't work either, i get a message about a print sub not being defined 15:42
jonathan Oddness.
purl oddness is that the icons are on top of the google ads
rob i don't have a print sub in my own language though
sjn jonathan: we had a NPW orga meeting yesterday, and I can say now that Redpill-Linpro's sponsoring your trip to Oslo, if you want to. :) 15:43
jonathan sjn: Nice! :-)
sjn: Including beer? ;-)
rob anyway, thats not essential thanks for your help guys
jonathan
.oO( I can dream... )
rob: Welcome. :-) 15:44
sjn jonathan: Jan Henning Thorsen (ircnick: batman) will take care of the details
we'll have to see about the beer though :)
jonathan hehe 15:45
sjn pmichaud: Same to you, btw
jonathan Big thanks to Redpill-Linpro for this! :-)
sjn pmichaud: Arne Somme (not on irc) will get in touch with you (Oslo.pm is paying)
jonathan Will certainly make things a bit easier.
sjn Arne Sommer* 15:46
jonathan (Redpill-Linpro)++
sjn jonathan: btw, would you mind taking a look at the your talk descriptions, making sure they're up-todate? 15:47
(write a few words about yourself too, and if you can, tick off the "confirmed" box :)
jonathan sjn: Certainly will do. The multi-dispatch one is probably still accurate, will tweak the other one. 15:48
sjn great! ^^
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jonathan ordered his train tickets for the Ukrainian Perl Workshop today too :-) 15:49
rurban jimmy: the myconfig please, and a paste for your error messages from the cmdline 15:50
mingw in the title also please
jimmy trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/326
rurban: Is it right ļ¼Ÿ 15:51
rurban can you paste the first compiler errors also?
jimmy what? errors? 15:52
rurban wait a sec... .\\parrot.exe -o C:/DOCUME~1/É¢ļæ½ļæ½ļæ½ļæ½ļæ½ļæ½/LOCALS~1/Temp/tySepN24eO ...
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jimmy I don't know what's errors. 15:52
rurban your $TEMP is broken, very interesting
which windows language is this? 15:53
jimmy but I don't know what're you talking about.
rurban is this a russian or asian windows?
jimmy .\\parrot.exe -o C:/DOCUME~1/ƉĀ¢Ā»ĀØƄƁƈƋ/LOCALS~1/Temp/tySepN24eO ... where do you see it? 15:54
rurban The problem is your TEMP environment variable. Setting it to C:\\TEMP or such would fix this.
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jimmy I think I know the problem 15:55
particle1 moritz: how long to tinyurl links last?
nopaste "rurban" at 212.183.50.220 pasted "jimmy's TEMP problem. TT #326" (13 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/15610
particle nm, tinyurl.com++ says 'never expires' 15:56
jimmy C:/DOCUME~1/ę•£čŠ±ē‰§äŗŗ/LOCALS~1/Temp/tySepN24eO.pbc
rurban It's your username in a locale perl5 cannot read properly
jimmy I'm using chinese account name.
rurban that's it. we need to fix this on our side. good catch, thanks!
your parrot is okay, just the testsuite is not ready for the chinese yet :) 15:57
NotFound No great surprise, the code that check paths is ascii-dependant
jimmy yes, maybe. 15:58
moritz particle: I don't know of any time limits
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jimmy rurban++ # for finding the problem 15:59
rurban but try to set TEMP to a short name without double-byte chars and then it will work. 16:00
NotFound And to a directory where you have enough privileges ;)
rurban set TEMP=C:\\WINDOWS\\TEMP or such 16:01
jimmy yes, that is why it passed on another computer 16:02
rurban We can easily reproduce that error and hope to find a fix for parrot-1.0
I took it. 16:03
jimmy that's using english account
pmichaud jonathan: ping
NotFound The culprit is almost surely in src/library.c
jonathan pmichaud: uh-oh...pong :-)
jimmy and make html doesn't support chinese too.
pmichaud I'm curious about #60528 and what it does
or, more precisely, how you "fixed" it 16:04
jonathan "Rakudo wrongly permits mutation of readonly variables in some cases" ?
pmichaud oh, sorry 60258
rurban where do we put deprecated macros? a special place?
deprecation macros, sorry 16:05
jonathan pmichaud: The top entries in the table in S03 are syntactic forms.
pmichaud yes, I know
jonathan pmichaud: So basically, we just do some analysis on the PAST to spot them.
Though I just did the one for now.
pmichaud looking at the diff (for some reason the commit emails aren't coming to my inbox) 16:06
jonathan Though TimToady++ just confirmed my interpretation of S03 was right.
pmichaud okay -- in reading your reply to the ticket it wasn't obvious that you were indeed dealing with the syntactic form
jonathan But anyway, we needed to handle it for when blocks too, so I put the code to handle it in a routine and EXPR and when both call it.
Ah, OK, sorry if it wasn't clear.
16:07 ron left
pmichaud what is $rhs<invocant_holder> ? Is that in the grammar somewhere? 16:07
jonathan No 16:08
There are a few places where we need to slot in an invocant later on.
I didn't want messy code trying to find it.
pmichaud how does smartmatch recognize that its rhs is a method, then?
jonathan By seeing that it defines an invocant_holder... 16:09
pmichaud which comes from where? 16:10
that's the part I'm not seeing.
jonathan Oooh...hmm.
In dotty 16:11
pmichaud I'm guessing <invocant_holder> is something you've added recently, then?
jonathan Last month.
purl i think last month is on his shoulders. this month is on mine :)
jonathan So yes, recently-ish.
pmichaud okay. I just hadn't incorporated it into my model.
jonathan It felt neater than anything else I could think of. 16:12
pmichaud yeah, I get a weird feeling about it but it works for now then.
Okay, that explains a lot.
Thanks.
This doesn't cause a problem with something like $x ~~ $y.methodcall, does it? 16:13
because in that case the rhs has an invocant holder also.
at least, I think it does.
jonathan yes, you're right, I realized that as soon as you asked :-(
...this is why I'm glad I factored the code for the two cases into one place...
pmichaud okay, here's what I think (I'm still waking up and working around this)
since smart match is based on syntactic forms, this is one place in actions.pm where we should actually be looking at the parse tree and not the PAST 16:14
i.e., I'd expect the rhs to be a dotty rule.
jonathan Hmm.
pmichaud (or something that has a syntax tree that ends up in a "bare dotty" rule)
jonathan That's a possible.
pmichaud if it's anything else, we don't think of this version of smart match as being syntactic. 16:15
jonathan *nod*
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jonathan Yeah, making the check more syntactic makes sense. 16:15
pmichaud right. In general I prefer to be working with the ast, but if something explicitly says "this is syntactic" then we should be looking at the syntax tree 16:16
er, parse tree
TimToady it's basically that .foo is considered to be 1-ary on the rhs
pmichaud well, so is foo($x), yes?
TimToady 1-ary with a missing argument
so &foo, not foo($x) 16:17
pmichaud okay, you lost me there.
jonathan Same...
pmichaud I always think of .foo as really being $_.foo
TimToady booleans and 1-arys are evaluated for true on the assumption that they already depend on $_ somehow (which is topicalized by ~~) 16:18
yes, and it is $_.foo
but recognizing it as equivalent to { $^x } suppresses comparison back to the lhs 16:19
pmichaud except that we don't normally recognize .foo as being &foo
at least, not yet.
TimToady no, but it's sufficient to rewrite .foo as { .foo }, since tha's 1-ary 16:20
pmichaud and do this for all instances of .foo?
TimToady it's a special form to ~~ so you don't have to make it the same as &foo everywhere
pmichaud or just the ones on the rhs of smart match? 16:21
jonathan TimToady: And how are we to detect that form? By looking at the parse tree?
TimToady I just said that
it has to be recognized syntactically
pmichaud okay
that's what we're doing. :-)
sjn hi, pmichaud & TimToady
16:21 Tene joined
jonathan Well, it's not what we're doing at the *moment*, but... :-) 16:21
dalek rrot: r36679 | fperrad++ | trunk/languages/t/harness:
[harness] remove --html option
sjn do you guys have a moment to talk about the Oslo trip? :)
pmichaud I do, yes.
TimToady well, I usually put Gloria in charge of such things...
but I'm here :)
sjn pmichaud: Oslo.pm is sponsoring you, arrival wednsday, departure tuesday 16:23
pmichaud sjn: you booked a ticket for me?
or...?
sjn pmichaud: no, but we have the money, and I understand you have ordered tickets already?
pmichaud yes, but i'm departing monday.
I didn't realize the hackathon had gone to three days.
sjn pmichaud: no chance you can stay for another day? :) 16:24
pmichaud might be a $150 change fee on the ticket -- I can check.
sjn ook
alternatively you could cancel it?
pmichaud there's a $150 cancellation fee. :-)
(i.e., cancelling + rebook ends up costing the same as changing) 16:25
sjn TimToady: I sent you a mail about talks and such to you and Gloria yesterday
pmichaud I'll check and see how much it will cost to rebook.
or convert to depart tuesday.
TimToady she'll be here in a sec
sjn pmichaud: ok
TimToady: ok
pmichaud I saw the great deal on the airfare so I booked it (and didn't realize the hackathon was being extended)
sjn pmichaud: yeah, sorry about the dates 16:26
TimToady glo says she can probably still get a good deal on tickets, if she knows what days to get them for 16:27
pmichaud TimToady: fwiw, I did departing Apr 14 and returning Apr 20 (should've been Apr 21)
TimToady so she can do it today if she knows the hotel dates
"I did" meaning hotel reservation? 16:28
sjn TimToady: have you or Gloria heard from the Go Open conference guys? (Rikke Holten from communitybuilder.dk is supposed to fix the flight and hotel details for you guys)
pmichaud no, just airfare
I haven't worked out lodging arrangements yet.
TimToady she's checking her overnight mail
sjn great
16:28 particle1 joined
TimToady no, she hasn't heard from them 16:29
sjn pmichaud: we were thinking of putting you here: <www.perlworkshop.no/npw2009/wiki?node=Hotels>
pmichaud oh wow, I just found a $600 round-trip airfare
sjn (some of the others we've found sponsors for are staying there at least)
pmichaud so maybe cancelling _is_ better than changing :-) 16:30
sjn pmichaud: sweet! :D
TimToady and there's nothing from communitybuilder in my mbox either
sjn TimToady: ok, I'll start prodding them about flight and hotel
TimToady we can almost always get better rates from this end than you can from your end
pmichaud sjn: (lodging) that looks fine to me
TimToady so 14 to 21
sjn TimToady: arrive/check-in on 15th, departure/checkout on 21st or 22nd, if you want a day for touristy things :) 16:31
TimToady checking calendar 16:32
that should be fine
pmichaud sjn: do you want me to book the hotel or do you all want to do it?
sjn TimToady: oh, and there's a really cool mausoleum in Oslo (which is almost kept as a secret from visitors) that is open only on sundays. You and Gloria shoud really go visit that :D
TimToady and yes, we want to be touristy for a day 16:33
sjn pmichaud: it's ok if you can book it, just keep the receipts and we'll refund you everything :)
TimToady (at least) :)
pmichaud sjn: will do. The Best Western looks like I can get a room for $4,680 NOK
sjn TimToady: april might still be a little chilly, but there's enough in Oslo to see for atleast a couple days :)
pmichaud: what? o.O
oh, for the whole week 16:34
pmichaud (about $677 US)
TimToady we visited Stockholm in December, and enjoyed it :)
pmichaud yes, for the whole week.
sjn pmichaud: there should be a web-rebate too
pmichaud I was booking AAA rate, since I'm a AAA member
I'll look for web-rebate.
sjn TimToady: great :) 16:35
TimToady: right now, we'd like to give you a keynote-y talk at the end of the conference, are you ok with that?
TimToady so should we be trying to book these things, or should we wait for cb.dk? 16:36
sjn ...we haven't really talked about talks, though.
TimToady keynotification is fine
sjn TimToady: go ahead and book hotels and flight, if you want to. Make sure you send a mail to rikke@communitybuilder.dk, with Cc: to salvejn@met.no and christer@friprog.no 16:37
...telling about what you're doning
doing*
TimToady glo sez she can get $700 tickies, maybe better, from SFO 16:38
by changing planes in Boston and London, which is a lot of o's 16:39
sjn get something you're comfortable with. friprog.no has a much bigger budget for getting you to Oslo that I have for pmichaud :)
well, perhaps it's nice to ask first :-P
anyhoo, no reason to aim for the el-cheapo airlines-with-no-legspace-and-crappy-food 16:40
TimToady glo would rather that someone with local knowledge book the hotel
sjn ok
Rikke can do that
TimToady given a choice, we'd rather fly el-crappo and spend more days in Oslo, maybe with some spending money :) 16:42
sjn :) 16:43
Coke_not_paying_att scrolls through a day worth of rakudo. 16:53
sjn TimToady: could you tell me right now if you're interested in the thursday evening talk thingy I mentioned in the mail to you? 16:56
TimToady glo is responding to the email, but if you mean go open panel, yes 16:58
dalek kudo: 01811bf | jnthn++ | src/builtins/any-str.pir:
Fix :x($n) in subst where $n is greater than the number of matches we can do. Resolves RT#61204.
 16:59
TimToady my basic rule is I'll do anything my wife will let me do :)
shorten dalek's url is at xrl.us/bef5jb
sjn TimToady: great :D 17:04
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sjn TimToady: mail sent to Rikke, to get the travel+hotel ball rolling 17:18
oh, damn 17:21
TimToady: you guys need a day for fixing jet-lag, right?
sjn never remembers if jet-lag is something you get from travelling eastward or westward
pmichaud for me, at least, arriving on the 15th gives me enough time to be ready for the 16th 17:22
TimToady that's fine, esp if my keynote isn't first thing
sjn TimToady: there's stuff happening on thursday (and even wednsday evening) 17:25
I'll send another mail, with the dates Gloria suggested
pmichaud: ok, you sure about that? 17:26
pmichaud sjn: that's been my experience in the past.
sjn ok, great
pmichaud usually I'm so sleep-deprived prior to traveling anyway that I just end up sleeping 15 hours when I arrive and then I'm "on schedule" :-) 17:27
sjn ah, better make sure you don't land too late in Oslo then :) 17:29
pmichaud looks like I'll arrive 9h35
sjn great
TimToady as long as we have a chance to walk around in the daylight on the 15th, we'll be okay 17:32
sjn TimToady: make sure to mention that to Rikke :) 17:34
dalek kudo: daa2eea | jnthn++ | src/classes/List.pir:
Fix Array smart-matching when two Whatevers were written one after the other. Resolves RT#61452.
 17:36
shorten dalek's url is at xrl.us/bef5oq
sjn Oh, and here are some pictures from the NPW venue: <www.perlworkshop.no/npw2009/wiki?node=Venue> :) 17:39
pmichaud okay, I've rebooked my air travel to stay the extra day. Total airfare is now $1050 (because of the change fees) 17:40
on the plus side, I arrive earlier into Oslo on the 15th. :-)
(and have fewer planes/connections to deal with)
jonathan Nice!
sjn pmichaud: how much did the hotel stay end up at?
jonathan Now you have to survive 3 days of hackathon. ;-) 17:41
pmichaud haven't booked that yet, doing it now. Looks like around $600 US
17:41 jq joined
sjn pmichaud: ok, I think we're within budget 17:41
sjn checked, and 1650USD is within our budget (with a little extra for currency fluctuations) 17:45
pmichaud okay, good.
jonathan likes finding tickets that we already did resolve. 17:49
dalek kudo: f7b4b86 | jnthn++ | src/classes/List.pir:
Correct smartmatching Array on RHS when LHS is non-array and we co-erce it; turns out it should DWIM too. Resolves RT#61454.
 17:54
shorten dalek's url is at xrl.us/bef5qh
17:58 silug joined
dalek rrot: r36680 | rurban++ | trunk:
TT #266

  - Add a third debug argument to Parrot_pbc_read
  - Encapsulate TRACE_PACKFILE macros
  - Add Deprecation		 18:07
18:10 Woody4286 joined
pmichaud afk, lunch 18:15
Infinoid rurban: Hi, if you're committing things that need a deprecation cycle (which looks like the case here), I think you'll need to commit the change to DEPRECATED.pod before the release, and commit the rest of the changes *after* the release
(if I understand the deprecation procedure properly) 18:16
dalek rrot: r36681 | rurban++ | trunk:
TT #313 not yet done.

  - todo pmc complex and float tests
18:18 chromatic joined
kj particle: (also changed other stuff than copyright; replies on your emails bounce; too big..) I checked the diffs for the regenerated files, and it's a different version of flex that I used, causing slightly different output. No functional changes. 18:19
18:23 barney joined
dalek kudo: 0f87695 | jnthn++ | src/parser/actions.pm:
Improvements to subtypes: anonymous ones can now handle something to smart-match against rather than a block (resolves RT#61654) and enforce read-onlyness on the thing we're testing unless it's decalred otherwise (resolves RT#61776).
 19:02
shorten dalek's url is at xrl.us/bef53i
Andy pmichaud, ping me when you get back please 19:07
19:07 sjn joined
rurban Oh, I broke make headerizer, will asap 19:09
chromatic You're a wild man, rurban.
rurban yep, a varargs macro 19:10
we have a coding stad test for macros without () args, which I fail 19:11
chromatic We're never going to pass that test. 19:12
We have nested macros, and it's just too complex to get them to work with argument wrappers everywhere in a cross-platform fashion.
It's a good idea, but it's impractical.
rurban I didn't give much care to this anyway, but it gave me good hints 19:13
good, works again 19:14
Can void Parrot_trace_eprintf(ARGIN(const char *s), ...) really break the headerizer? 19:19
Ah, I can use /* HEADERIZER SKIP */ will try that 19:20
dalek rrot: r36682 | fperrad++ | trunk/tools/dev/mk_inno.pl:
[inno-setup] fix AppPublisher
 19:33
19:37 cognominal joined
moritz could somebody with RT admin privs please delete RT #63218 and RT #63216? both are spam 19:38
cotto moritz, done 19:40
thanks
moritz++
dalek rrot: r36683 | rurban++ | trunk:
Fix make headerizer from r36680. undefine TRACE_PACKFILE
 19:47
20:01 alvar_ joined 20:06 IceGuest_7 joined 20:20 rurban_ joined 20:23 mberends joined, ask_ joined 20:24 ask- joined 20:25 allison_ joined
rurban long double pass all tests on 64-bit 20:26
Anyone has a long double 16-byte support on a 32bit machine? Or is this impossible? 20:27
(I guess so) 20:28
moritz how can I test it?
rurban I'll add the latest patch to TT #308. wait a sec 20:29
moritz sizeof(long double) says 12 on my 32 bit box 20:30
and sizeof(double) say 8 20:31
rurban so you have a cheap machine :) 20:32
typical x86 setup
moritz it was expensive when I bought it ;-)
(but not because of the CPU I think ;) 20:33
rurban I want a MIPS with the special NaN bug on long double
THAT is expensive
or a cray
moritz our department will get a medium sunfire thingy soon 20:34
maybe I can grab an account and try to smoke parrot on solaris ;-)
rurban for solrais just get the iso and a vm 20:35
moritz that's only half the fun
rurban you have dtrace then. but we dont have dtrace macros now
rg amd64 seems to have 16bit long double. is that what you're looking for?
rurban yep 20:36
rg how can i help?
ah no you said 32bit machine 20:37
are you sure such a thing exists?
rurban trac.parrot.org/parrot/attachment/...le16.patch
shorten rurban's url is at xrl.us/bef6km
rurban only intel has this weird 12-byte long double format 20:38
x86_64 on a good os and amd64 boxes should support this 16-byte long double 20:39
rg do you know that already or do you want it tested?
rurban with good I mean better than linux
rg has freebsd
dalek rrot: r36684 | fperrad++ | trunk/tools/dev/mk_inno.pl:
[inno-setup] fix comment
moritz rurban: what's wrong with long double on linux?
(I'm curious because I have to do some numerics on 64bit linux)
rurban 12-byte weirdness on linux
see src/packfile/pf_items.c 20:41
I was testing true 16-byte long double on solaris on intel
dalek rrot: r36685 | kjs++ | trunk/NEWS:
[NEWS] update various NEWS items. More to come! (and is this too detailed?)
 20:42
Tene Has anyone udpated polyglotbot to deal with languages moving out of the repo?
rg that patch does not apply cleanly for me against the latest trunk (nor yesterday's trunk) 20:43
ok, just a copyright change, i guess i can ignore that 20:44
rurban my patch? 20:46
purl i guess your patch is huge and not yet ready. Should I paste the src/library.c part?
rurban being funny today
rg yes, your patch. first chunk of src/packfile/pf_items.c 20:47
rurban Oh shit, we can have different ptrsize on perl and parrot.
Sorry, will fix. 20:48
rg don't worry about it on my account. i'm already compiling ;)
scrap that: running tests 20:49
rurban indeed, no error on my side. But I had to fix a tiny tool 20:51
I think I will apply this now in about 30 minutes 20:52
I had to disable perl-parrot ptrsize mismatches when generating native_pbcs for releases 20:53
rurban@opensolaris:/usr/src/perl/parrot$ tools/dev/mk_native_pbc --noconf
Sorry, unsupported perl - parrot ptrsize mismatch.
rg huh? 20:55
your patch seems to be fine: All tests successful. (on amd64/freebsd)
dalek tracwiki: v5 | whiteknight++ | CallingConventionsTasklist 21:02
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Callin...?version=5
rurban Good, I'll check it in. I tested it on 10 machines.
shorten dalek's url is at xrl.us/bef6py
rurban but not on a big-endian 64-bit machine. Andy Dougherty will do. He has a Sparc available but it should do no harm there 21:03
rg i'm getting ready for testing parrot on a sparc64 ... not quite there yet.
rurban I had to add this odd "Sorry, unsupported perl - parrot ptrsize mismatch." error message 21:04
dalek tracwiki: v6 | whiteknight++ | CallingConventionsTasklist 21:06
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Callin...?version=6
shorten dalek's url is at xrl.us/bef6qn
dalek rrot: r36686 | kjs++ | trunk/NEWS:
[NEWS] More NEWS updates. I think this more or less covers it for now.
 21:08
rrot: r36687 | kjs++ | trunk/RESPONSIBLE_PARTIES:
[RESPONSIBLE_PARTIES] Add myself to release managers list. + update Copyright year to 2009, as that's the current year.
 21:11
rrot: r36688 | jkeenan++ | trunk/config/auto/neg_0.pm:
Reverting the substance of r36648. cc_clean() must be called for this probe, after all. This addresses some of the issues raised in trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/327.
 21:12
rurban rg, thanks
rg++
dalek rrot: r36689 | rurban++ | trunk:
TT #308 add 16-byte long double

  - Fixed 3 wrong tests and added new transformers
  - Updated native_pbc tests and tools/dev/mk_native_pbc --noconf
  - Added FLOATTYPE macros and even a 32-byte endianizer		 21:13
rurban now let the smokes come in :)
rg there's something triggered by native_pbc/number.t that makes my parrot dump a core that fills up a couple gigabytes (i know i should set a limit ;)). it's todo-ed so it still passes, but it keeps bugging me a bit ;) 21:16
dalek rrot: r36690 | kjs++ | trunk/CREDITS:
[CREDITS] fix kjs' entry.
 21:18
rurban yes, we need to update these pbc's on every major freeze or pmc change
I todo'd them so that only official releases are safe to test. 21:19
But I update now those to which I have access to.
Whiteknight Is there really a benefit to a unit test like that? 21:24
dalek kudo: 1ac6625 | jnthn++ | src/builtins/io.pir:
Implement prompt built-in.
shorten dalek's url is at xrl.us/bef6sn
Whiteknight I mean, is it worthwhile to have a test that basically always fails except when it's explicitly updated?
rg whiteknight: that's not quite it. what you're updating is the files generated on each platform. what you're testing is that the other platforms can read those files. 21:25
Whiteknight okay, I won't complain about it anymore, but it doesn't make any sense to me 21:26
21:28 davidfetter joined
rg it makes sense to me, although i probably would have made a different design decision. 21:29
dalek rrot: r36691 | fperrad++ | trunk:
[inno-setup] add Inno Setup script generation for language
 21:34
rurban I just got a race with parallel building with dmake. My box is too fast :) 21:37
For me soon the magical 1234567890 moment arrives. in 50 minutes. perl -le 'print scalar localtime(1234567890)' tinyurl.com/aewft8 21:40
21:41 Ademan joined
rurban In eastern europe it's just over 21:42
dalek rrot: r36692 | kjs++ | trunk/compilers/pirc/src:
[pirc] remove #if 0 / #endif code.
rg i thought unix time was utc
moritz rg: yes. And localtime tells you when the timestamp that counts in gmtime is at that value in your timezone 21:44
rurban the trick is using localtime. 19070 started in each zone on a different time
So everyone has a different 0 time
rg that's what i'm doubting. the timezone is added to or subtracted from gmtime. 21:47
date +%s tells me it's still over 2 hours unitl 1234567890
s/over/just under/ 21:48
rurban london time?
purl london time is 5 hours different for est
rurban vienna time? 21:51
21:51 cognominal joined
rg clock? 21:51
purl rg: LAX: Fri 1:51pm PST / CHI: Fri 3:51pm CST / NYC: Fri 4:51pm EST / LON: Fri 9:51pm GMT / BER: Fri 10:51pm CET / IND: Sat 3:21am IST / TOK: Sat 6:51am JST / SYD: Sat 8:51am EST /
jonathan rurban: 22:51 currently
moritz same as Berlin 21:52
jonathan And much of western/central Europe. :-)
rurban 64-bit alignment problem? PF_fetch_string(): string is ' PBC PF_fetch_string(): round size up to 264. Unknown PMC type to thaw 0 Fun! 21:55
But the long double stuff works at least with foreign pbc's 21:56
dalek kudo: 7175fd0 | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
Allow 'inheritance' from a role (puns the role into a class and inherits from the pun).
 21:58
shorten dalek's url is at xrl.us/bef6xh
dalek rrot: r36693 | rurban++ | trunk/src/packfile.c:
[cage] fix tiny macro error on TRACE_PACKFILE = 2
rurban jonathan and moritz, we can celebrate together 22:10
22:13 allison left, allison joined
dalek rrot: r36694 | allison++ | trunk:
[cage] Update all references for irc.perl.org to irc.parrot.org.
 22:21
22:27 darbelo joined
szabgab moritz, ping 22:37
22:37 Whiteknight joined
GeJ Good morning everyone 22:43
dalek rrot: r36695 | kjs++ | trunk/languages/pod/src/parser:
[pod] some method implementations for lang/pod.
 22:44
kudo: a0a3902 | jnthn++ | src/parser/actions.pm:
Check for $x ~~ .foo is syntactic and should thus be done on the parse three, not the PAST tree (pmichaud++ for input).
 22:47
shorten dalek's url is at xrl.us/bef65w
dalek rrot: r36696 | allison++ | trunk/compilers/imcc/main.c:
[cage] Applying patch to update copyright years reported by -V (resolves TT

Foundation.		 22:54
purl foundation is 95 years old, so I think it'll be okay
IceGuest_7 foundation/
foundation?
purl foundation is 95 years old, so I think it'll be okay
kj foundation?
purl foundation is 95 years old, so I think it'll be okay
kj purl, forget foundation
purl kj: I forgot foundation
kj purl, foundation is probably Parrot Foundation, or perhaps The Perl Foundation. 22:56
purl OK, kj.
dalek rrot: r36697 | kjs++ | trunk/languages/pod/src:
[pod] some quick hacks, most probably needs more thoughts, but it makes test.pod compile. (nothing happens yet, except when --target=html, some stuff is coming out)
 23:02
Whiteknight good morning GeJ 23:08
foundation? 23:09
purl it has been said that foundation is probably Parrot Foundation, or perhaps The Perl Foundation.
23:11 iblechbot joined 23:19 kid51 joined
dalek rrot: r36698 | allison++ | trunk/t/codingstd/copyright.t:
[cage] Fix test so it checks for a valid formatted copyright statement, rather

  (the latter is *never* right, because not all files will be modified in the
current year). Resolves TT #255.		 23:21
23:28 darbelo_ joined
rurban hmm, t/library/pg.t 13 fails suddenly on most platforms 23:28
kj rurban: it's ok on win32 23:29
GeJ Whiteknight: no answer yet. 23:30
rurban smolder.plusthree.com/app/public_pr...ails/17996
shorten rurban's url is at xrl.us/bef7bo
dalek rrot: r36699 | whiteknight++ | branches/rename_pccinvoke:
[rename_pccinvoke] update to trunk r36697. Was failing two tests. Updated, now I'm failing a differen two
rurban ok, just one.
purl It's the loneliest number, you know. 23:31
Whiteknight GeJ, I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe you need a mail a second one
rg celebrates 1234567890 :) 23:32
Whiteknight oh yeah! 1234567890!
kid51 Errg, I wrote my program to watch the clock a few seconds too late! 23:33
GeJ Whiteknight: I'll probably email it this time.
Whiteknight good, the sooner the better
23:44 darbelo_ left
kid51 Question for any: We have two tests sitting in t/doc/: opcode-doc.t and pod.t. Neither is currently part of 'make test'. I'm currently working on the latter, which I anticipate moving to t/codingstd/ -- as it's really a test of the standards our POD has to meet (even if it's not 'code' in the strict sense). 23:47
Is there any objection to moving opcode-doc.t to t/codingstd/ as well? Otherwise, it's pretty much orphaned. 23:48
chromatic +1 23:49
purl 1
allison kid51: seems sensible, as documentation standards are part of coding standards
kid51 Thx for quick response! This will be done in branch first. If I don't finish branch tomorrow, I'll wait till after release. 23:51
rurban kid51: about TT #326. I can fix this. perl5 fails on utf8 (chinese) pathnames 23:52
kid51 Yeah, I saw your post after I posted, but was at $job so was limited in what I could do. Fix away! 23:53
Whiteknight urg, I'm getting all sorts of intermittent test failures in my branch
kid51 which branch?
purl rumour has it which branch is the one for RT 59410
Whiteknight a random set of two or three seem to fail each runthrough, ad I can't reproduce them on demand
rename_pccinvoke
kid51 purl forget which branch
purl kid51: I forgot which branch
23:53 Limbic_Region joined
Whiteknight These CallSignature PMCs are dangerous things 23:54
rurban and without jit also?
kid51 Whiteknight: Do you want me to do a checkout and test?
Whiteknight kid51: if you have the time and energy, I would love a second opinion
kid51 Straightforward Configure.pl && make ?
Whiteknight yeah, it's vanilla 23:55
kid51 does checkout of rename_pccinvoke branch 23:56
Whiteknight I just got a segfault to happen in gdb! It's taken me about 15 minutes to catch it 23:58
dalek rrot: r36700 | jkeenan++ | branches/update_pod/t/doc/pod.t:
No need for 'our' variables where 'my' will suffice.

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