Parrot 1.1.0 Released | parrot.org/ | 332 RTs left
Set by moderator on 26 April 2009.
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dalek rrot: r38377 | jkeenan++ | trunk (2 files):
Add tests for _set_intvalmaxmin() and _set_floatvalmaxmin().
 01:40
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raiph pmichaud: great to read npw/hackathon were outstanding. i just did a make realclean, git pull, configure, make, and got virtual memory exhausted as before. any ideas about what's up and/or how to debug? tia. 02:17
exit 02:18
Infinoid building perl6.pbc does take a *lot* of memory 02:19
about 2GB on linux/x86-64, judging from the amount of disk cache it invalidates
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mikehh Smolder is still down - at least for me 04:43
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mikehh codetest - t/codingstd/c_function_docs.t - # Failed test 'src/dynext.c' in addition to the whole bunch of TODOs 04:57
and t/codingstd/copyright.t still fails on the 4 compilers/imcc files 04:59
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mikehh make -k fulltest at r38376, Kubuntu Jaunty Amd64 - testb, C, f, g, r, S, src_, run_, perl_tests PASS, codetest FAIL, 06:36
benchmark_, manifest_tests PASS, example_tests FAIL, distro_tests PASS 06:37
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mikehh codetest as above 06:40
examples_tests - t/examples/pod.t - Failed tests: 4, 82-84, 86, 88, 90-97, 99, 101-102, 104, 106-107, 109-111, 113, 118-120, 122, 154 06:41
all but one in docs/book/ch09_pasm.pod, last in docs/book/ch03_pir.pod 06:43
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register twek! 10:02
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bacek good evening 10:16
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LylePerl How fast is parrot? I've come acorss the parrotbench utility, but are there any graphs and examples online? 10:52
gaurav LylePerl: There's some comparisons at shootout.alioth.debian.org/debian/b...ang=parrot 10:55
shorten gaurav's url is at xrl.us/beqim6
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LylePerl Am I right in thinking that you can convert PIR files to pasm? 11:46
And pasm to pbc?
bacek LylePerl: you can convert PIR to PBC directly. 12:06
./parrot -o foo.pbc foo.pir 12:07
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LylePerl gaurav, bacek: thanks :) 12:40
I wonder if I can convince those debian peeps to do those benchmarks with pbc...
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Coke cotto: ping. 12:53
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Coke msg Infinoid: no, docs.parrot.org is not updated for 1.1 12:57
purl Message for infinoid stored.
Coke msg cotto: I would be grateful for a patch for partcl to update its PMCs to deal with the lack of *_type_val macros. 12:58
purl Message for cotto stored.
Coke msg cotto (my naive attempt to do so still results in build warnings)
purl Message for cotto stored.
Coke trying to wget either release of parrot (1.0, 1.1) from the urls on the download page from OSU fails. 13:01
LylePerl I put through a request for them to benchmark PBC as well, finger crossed 13:02
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Coke When folks hit the download links now, do they get a download? or an ftp folder with a single item? 13:05
Infinoid an ftp folder with a single item 13:07
Coke that might explain why that download never works for me. 13:09
why is not to the /actual file/ ?
Infinoid I have no idea. 13:16
A link to the actual file would make more sense to me, and so would using http (because we already know the client who clicked the link can speak that) 13:17
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Coke Infinoid: docs.parrot.org updated. 13:23
Infinoid Coke++ 13:26
regarding #584, I can update the url redirects to point to the file pretty easily. I can even make it use http instead of ftp. But release_manager_guide.pod should also be updated 13:28
Do you want me to do this, or were you hoping for some discussion first? 13:29
Coke discussion. 13:37
purl discussion is lively and amusing and utterly stupid in here this morning! or on freenode #kwid
Infinoid Ok
Coke on docs.parrot.org, we have devel, latest, and stable links. 13:40
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Coke I can see no reason not to make devel just point to latest. 13:40
(right now, devel and latest independently point to 1.1.0, while stable is stuck at 1.0.0) 13:41
I'd just just kill devel, but someone probably already linked to it.
(done. devel -> latest -> 1.1.0; stable -> 1.0.0) 13:42
(If we eventually use 'latest' to mean 'svn-latest', I can separate it back out again.) 13:43
Infinoid daily snapshots would be nice. But if by "latest" you mean "release/current", I don't think they qualify for that particular link 13:45
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rg oooh. op. shiny :) 13:47
Coke rg: ? 13:48
rg mode (+o rg) by slavorg 13:49
Coke slavorg: trust no one.
slavorg huh?
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Coke opbots, trust dukeleto 13:55
slavorg Ok
clunker3 But I do not trust you Coke
Coke clunker3: oh, it's ON. 14:03
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dukeleto Coke: danke 14:55
Coke you're human, right? =-) 15:05
dukeleto Coke: last time I checked 15:06
Infinoid That's what counts 15:13
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particle don't bother checking again, your word is good enough 15:44
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mikehh Abyone any idea what has happened to smolder? 16:18
Any 16:19
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dalek rrot: r38378 | NotFound++ | trunk/src/jit.c:
[cage] fix c++ build, limit scope of some vars
 17:23
cotto Coke, will do 18:00
messages erase
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rdice Is there a known segfault from the current rakudo/parrot combo? 18:20
Ever since I've been trying to built it this morning, it's been not happy.
Tene lemme try on my system. 18:22
nopaste "rdice" at 72.137.84.213 pasted "monad:/usr/local/src/rakudo# m" (7 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/16414 18:23
rdice Oh, bloody hell. 18:25
purl Crikey!
rdice Now it works.
Well, not that I should be unhappy about this I suppose.
pmichaud so, it's working, or not working? ;-) 18:26
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NotFound pmichaud: yes ;) 18:28
rdice Linked: perl6
monad:/usr/local/src/rakudo# ls -l ./perl6
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root staff 6502848 2009-04-27 14:26 ./perl6
monad:/usr/local/src/rakudo# ./perl6 -v
This is Rakudo Perl 6, revision 38367 built on parrot 1.1.0-devel
for x86_64-linux-gnu-thread-multi.
Copyright 2006-2008, The Perl Foundation.
monad:/usr/local/src/rakudo# date
Mon Apr 27 14:30:08 EDT 2009
Working.
purl i heard working was a good approximation.
pmichaud yay. 18:29
Although we need to fix that -V option to be something more useful. :-)
particle -v, yes indeed. 18:30
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rdice Is Simon's work on sqlite for rakudo bundled in rakudo or parrot, or not bundled? 18:45
pmichaud parrot, I think
in the examples/ subdir
I think we should probably move that to a rakudo or perl6 repository 18:46
Infinoid Do we have a 6pan yet? 18:47
Tene We don't.
There have been many suggestions, but nobody has done any work on any of them.
pmichaud officially, no. But masak++ 's "proto" project is serving somewhat in that capacity at the moment.
Infinoid If tuits are what's needed, I might just throw something together 18:48
Tene Ah, haven't looked at that yet.
Coke cotto: danke. 18:49
Infinoid cpan6.org looks fairly motivated
Coke cotto: happy to give you commit privs to partcl.
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jhorwitz wow pbc_to_exe is a pig 18:50
Coke remembers a long, hard to follow thread about the difference between cpan6 and 6pan.
pmichaud jhorwitz: yes, because we have to build the entire code in memory (because I/O is b0rken)
jhorwitz yeah cc eats up > 1GB of my 512 MB on slicehost. :-P 18:51
fortunately i don't need the exe
pmichaud oh, it's the cc process that eats up all the space? Not a whole I can do about that one. :-| 18:52
*whole lot
particle you know c. fix gcc!
jhorwitz removes his glove and slaps particle 18:53
Infinoid it's just compiling an enormous data structure and a header stub to bootstrap it, right?
fsvo "structure" 18:54
jhorwitz it would seem so. a 14 MB source file. :-P 18:55
cotto Coke, sure. Do you know my google username?
Coke I fail to recall 18:56
cotto pm'd
Coke pmichaud: I wonder if changing PGE's core rules should require a deprecation notice. 18:59
dalek rrot: r38379 | pmichaud++ | trunk (2 files):
[pge]: underscore is considered a match for <alpha> (RT #65138).
 19:00
Coke msg pmichaud I wonder if changing PGE's core rules should require a deprecation notice.
purl Message for pmichaud stored.
pmichaud Coke: I'm not sure this counts as a deprecation.
but I can see the argument.
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Tene jonathan: ping 19:32
nopaste "tene" at 97.117.72.236 pasted "Weird array behavior..." (22 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/16415 19:33
Tene pmichaud: any idea what's going on in that paste?
I'm having a lot of trouble finding a way to work around that bug.
pmichaud: it also shows up when I access any array element at all. If I invoke @events[0] or [*-1], it just invokes the most-recently-pushed (or unshifted) item 19:36
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pmichaud Tene: it looks to me as though it thinks all of the $_'s are the same. 19:44
Tene Yeah, looks like to me.
If I push on something outside of the loop, that item works fine.
Does this have to do with the auto-close semantics?
pmichaud no
1..10 returns an iterator 19:45
and $_ is being set to the value of the iterator
a new value isn't being created each time -- what is happening is that the .from value is incremented each time
but it's the same .from PMC each time
nopaste "tene" at 97.117.72.236 pasted "another intersting variation of this bug..." (17 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/16416
pmichaud so all of the $_'s are bound to the iterators .from
Tene I think this new example demonstrates something else is going on 19:46
pmichaud what do you get from output from that? 19:47
nopaste "tene" at 67.137.148.144 pasted "oops, here's the output" (10 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/16417
pmichaud no, that still seems to fit with what I expect. 19:48
Tene howso? 19:49
pmichaud s/I expect/the way I described what is happening earlier/
I'm not saying it's correct -- I'm just saying that what you're seeing is due to the way the range iterator works 19:50
if you change it from 1..5 to 1,2,3,4,5 I suspect you'll see something different.
Tene look at the two pushes before the loop
they also print '5' when invoked
and it's the same when I change it to 1,2,3,4,5 19:51
pmichaud the two pushes before the loop don't surprise me.
what are you expecting them to do?
oh wait, I might've misread the output. 19:52
just a sec
yes, I did -- the 'foo' and 'bar' confused me.
there shouldn't be any autoclose semantics taking place here.
so I don't think that's the issue.
I'm guessing that the closure isn't being cloned. 19:53
in fact, if you change it to be
my $x = { say $msg; }
return $x;
I bet it works.
Tene It does. 19:54
purl if you say so...
pmichaud so the problem is that .push( ) isn't cloning its values.
I think this is a known bug.
I'm not sure it should be doing an explicit clone -- perhaps it should just be assigning to the correct element. 19:55
i.e., using the equivalent logic of infix:=
Coke has an interesting cfmx coding problem. Sadly, he can't figure out how to do it. 20:30
rg is pretty sure even cf is turing complete ;) 20:45
Coke I have code that looks like <transaction><try>stuff<catch>rollback;other stuff</catch></try></transaction> - I'm trying to make that look like <foo>stuff</foo> 20:48
cotto The best solution isn't always "write a better compiler for a better language".
particle1 coke: is there libxslt access? 20:50
Coke particle-: it's java under the hood, so there could be. 20:52
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NotFound Sometimes you can write a poor compiler for the language 21:18
cotto It does work for simple enough regexes. 21:30
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bacek good morning 21:51
pmichaud bacek: good morning
does tomorrow look better than today? ;-)
bacek pmichaud: definitely. Very warm Autumn :)
pmichaud: I didn't quite understand about "self should be lexical"... 21:52
pmichaud bacek: if you have
if 1 { self.foo() } 21:53
then the { self.foo() } part goes into a separate subroutine
it's not a method, so there is no 'self' defined in Parrot
bacek I thinks that is marked ad "immediate" block. No? 21:54
no... 21:55
jonathan immediate in PAST, not immediate at Parrot level.
self is stored in a lexical var, anyways.
bacek Ok, got the point.
jonathan: not in NQP
jonathan So we can get at it.
pmichaud jonathan: right -- we're looking at NQP here.
jonathan NQP maybe not, no. But Rakudo, yes. 21:56
Ah, OK.
Adding self to NQP?
pmichaud bacek wrote a patch in his branch to add 'self' to NQP
jonathan Aha.
pmichaud but it does the naieve "map self to register self"
jonathan OK, I didn't have the context. :-)
pmichaud right.
bacek :)
jonathan Yeah, I did that once in the early days of Rakudo, and the ticket the next day quickly told me I was wrong. ;-)
pmichaud heh
deja-vu, eh?
jonathan aye.
Well, it was the First Obvious Solution. ;-) 21:57
bacek But there is no objections about adding self to NQP?
moritz let me guess, masak wrote that ticket ;-)
jonathan moritz: I don't remember, but there's a high probability. :-)
bacek: No objections, if there's a use case...
bacek jonathan: PMC compiler in PCT :)
jonathan Though I'm also in favor of keeping NQP lightweight.
Hey, we've managed much of a Perl 6 compiler in PCT without self. ;-) 21:58
bacek jonathan: Me either. But underlying parrot provide more stuff that available from NQP
jonathan: no, I don't want to write it in PIR. NQP is much better :) 21:59
jonathan Guess it's pmichaud's call really. But I see no reason why not if it's useful.
pmichaud I think I'd prefer to not create a lexical 'self' on every method when it's not needed.
bacek wishes to have full feature optimizer for PIR... 22:00
Even DCE will help...
pmichaud so I'm trying to see if I can think of a way to only add lexical 'self' when it's needed. 22:01
unfortunately, that might involve the equivalent of get_outer_symbol in NQP... and I'm not sure I want to go there.
bacek: anyway, the "correct" fix for now is that every method declaration should start with .lex 'self', self 22:02
bacek pmichaud: simple flag "our $want_self := 0" on starting method. Set it in "noun".
pmichaud bacek: not _quite_ that simple. 22:03
bacek pmichaud: in Perl6 - yes. In NQP it should be enough.
NQP is simple, isn't it? :)
pmichaud bacek: I'm not a big fan of flag variables. Since I don't think NQP does any "our" flag variables as yet, I don't want this to introduce the concept.
jonathan Will be easier to do it neatly once we have context vars, perhaps. 22:04
pmichaud if we already had a bunch, I might agree. But there are times when I'm not a big fan of expedient fixes, because then everyone starts to use them.
and then they get out of control and it's hard to get rid of them.
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bacek ok, I'll benchmark ".lex 'self', self". If it is not very slow I'll implement it. 22:06
gotta go to $work...
see you soon. 22:07
pmichaud it won't be slow.
it's okay to implement it.
cotto If anyone's interested in darbelo's GCoC project, our discussion takes place on groups.google.com/group/decnum-dynpmcs . 22:14
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cotto I wonder why bkuhn hangs out here. 22:40
Infinoid We're awesome? 22:41
cotto purl really should have a response to that question. 22:43
purl cotto: i'm not following you...
kid51 Is there anybody available right now who builds Parrot on Win32? 22:46
davidfetter HAI 22:47
does rakudo build against any released parrot atm?
Infinoid I build parrot on win32 when people report bugs on mingw
but I'm leaving momentarily
kid51 Infinoid: Can you tell me whether or not on Win32 'make' creates a file: ./installable_pirc.exe ? 22:48
Infinoid I'll give it a try (booting pc) 22:49
dduncan question, is there still plan to release Parrot on CPAN like v1.0.0 and earlier, or is it only being released on parrot.org now?
Infinoid I don't think so, dduncan. Since parrot no longer bundles perl6, we're less likely to get away with that. 22:50
(but I'm not authoritative)
dduncan I thought the rules for CPAN were loose and that projects loosely connected with Perl or from its community could also be released there 22:51
Infinoid I don't see anything about CPAN in the release manager guide 22:52
hmm 22:54
[release] A few cleanups in release instructions/tools, preparing for
the next release. Remove CPAN from the release process (it's another
package distribution, like Debian/Cygwin, etc).
-- svn log, r36851
dduncan okay
Infinoid cotto: www.ebb.org/projects/parrotemacs/wiki 22:56
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cotto Infinoid, that 'splains it. 22:59
kid51 dduncan: rules for CPAN are loose and none of them prevent us from placing Parrot there. 23:04
But right now our focus is on demonstrating that Parrot is good tool for *all* dynamic languages -- not just Perl 6. 23:05
dduncan I understand, this is just about how the Parrot team decided to do releaes
kid51 ... even if Rakudo is best use of Parrot ATM
Yup, it's Parrot policy, not CPAN policy
Infinoid: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/586 is the reason for my Win32 question. 23:08
Infinoid kid51: No installable_pirc.exe built by "make", no installable_pirc.exe make rule to build it directly
(it just finished building)
are all those things renamed by make install? 23:09
kid51 Are there *other* installable_*.exe files created by 'make'?
... in top-level dir 23:10
Infinoid no.
kid51 Hrrm, that's not the result I was hoping for.
Infinoid I have the standard fare of binary tools, none of them have the installable_ prefix
kid51 Thanks for looking at this. 23:11
Infinoid I have ... miniparrot.exe, parrot.exe, parrot_config.exe, parrot_debugger.exe, pbc_disassemble.exe, pbc_dump.exe, pbc_info.exe, pbc_merge.exe, pbc_to_exe.exe
np. that's on mingw/strawberry/winxp
back later &
23:14 edd joined
edd hai 23:14
anyone awake?
purl nobody here but us chickens!
edd ok, so i found your web-page just 5 minutes ago 23:15
i have just finished writing a JIT compiler using LLVM for my dissertation
i am looking to comare llvm to parrot
compare*
(your current release link on your web page is broken) 23:16
making it hard to get running to try it out :p
kid51 edd: (This doesn't directly address your report, but is relevant): use.perl.org/~Whiteknight/journal/38827 23:18
Which web page did you go to?
edd www.parrot.org/ 23:19
purl www.parrot.org/ is the new homepage and feather aka www.parrotvm.org/
kid51 Another relevant link: socghop.appspot.com/student_project...4022225777 23:20
shorten kid51's url is at xrl.us/beqmt4
kid51 edd: Was your problem with the link marked "Current developer release"? 23:22
edd both 23:23
Not found - www.parrot.org/download
The page you were opening doesn't exist.
Try to load the page again, or move on to another page.
(says midori)
kid51 Well, when I clicked on Current supported release, an ftp connection was opened and I was able to download parrot-1.0.0.tar.gz
edd ok so its midori being an ass 23:24
i have firefox too, lemme see
kid51 Well, I was *definitely* able to get to: www.parrot.org/download
edd (only switched yesterday to midori, promising, but lacking in some places)
kid51 ... but i did have a problem with "Current developer release"
edd yeh works in ff3 23:25
my bad
kid51: the links you sent me are not selling your project to me!
tell me something good about parrot
kid51 "The Finder cannot complete the operation because some data in 'ftp://ftp.parrot.org/releases/devel/1.1.0' could not be read or written. (Error code -36).
edd the asm looks much simpler 23:26
kid51 How about: svn co svn.parrot.org/parrot/trunk
edd i could
:p
kid51 I personally have never downloaded from the web page (until 5 min ago). So I'm unfamiliar with problems people might encounter there.
edd releases are better milestones for documentational purposes, dont you think :p 23:27
kid51 I agree. But we're an all-volunteer project and cannot guarantee that every aspect of our web site will always be up-to-date.
edd sure no problems 23:28
now sell the project to me :p
kid51 But I just discarded the 1.0.0 tarball and was able to download the 1.1.0 tarball.
So it may be more of a problem with our ftp service than with Parrot.
rg there has already been some discussion about offering http links rather than ftp. i think wheels are in motion. 23:29
edd so, im looking to compare llvm to parrot, whats the key differences 23:30
kid51 edd: I'm not knowledgeable about the sort of issues you're likely to be interested in/have expertise in. That's why I suggested those links.
edd i see you have a parse tree format
does this imply parrot has a parser built in? 23:31
and tokeniser perhaps?
kid51 Once you've read them, I'd suggest posting to our mailing list, so that people like whiteknight, allison and tewk -- who are expert -- can respond fully.
edd i looked at your links, but they seem to put the vm down a lot
kid51 Do you have link to your dissertation?
edd students.dec.bmth.ac.uk/ebarrett/wi...?id=edd:3c 23:32
i have not made source available yet 23:34
kid51 planet.parrotcode.org/ is also available 23:35
Whiteknight edd: LLVM is a very low-level virtual machine, it doesn't support high-level languages like Parrot does
edd there is a gcc frontend, which seems to be doing well, but other than that yes... correct 23:37
however it jits on many platforms
hi Whiteknight, just read your blog link kid51 sent 23:38
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edd sorry to come on in here banging on about llvm by the way. I am just looking for a neutral comparison 23:40
Whiteknight edd: Let me put it to you this way: Parrot will probably use LLVM as a jit backend 23:41
LLVM is lower-level, Parrot is higher-level
kid51 edd: I think we are interested in such comparisons and in learning more about LLVM -- particularly if it helps resolve our JIT problems.
edd source -> vm -> vm -> JIT/codegen
interesting
Whiteknight yes, comparisons and talking are very good things 23:42
edd well what i can tell you from initial looks
is that your vm aims to cover many languages as frontends
Whiteknight the term "Virtual Machine" is really a very broad term that covers lots of completely different things
edd llvm only really provides an API for other devs to use
llvm is very strongly typed compared to parrot from what i seee 23:43
llvm has no strings
Whiteknight edd: LLVM was originally designed to be a replacement C compiler to GCC, as a more modern thing
edd only char arrays
which have differing type if the array is longer
Whiteknight right, it's just a compiler for C and machine-independent assembly
edd ie the type of i32 x 4 != the type of i32 x 5
gotcha 23:44
is there an official reference to parrot changing its jit to llvm 23:45
dduncan about: kid51: "The Finder cannot complete the operation because some data in 'ftp://ftp.parrot.org/releases/devel/1.1.0' could not be read or written. (Error code -36).
I got that problem too
so I used Fetch instead to go to the ftp server and that worked
Whiteknight edd: No official reference, it is a GSOC project this summer though
edd or is Whiteknight's blog authorotive in any way? Whiteknight, are you a core developer?
Whiteknight my blog is certainly not "authoritative", but I am a committer, yes 23:46
edd ok
Whiteknight: mind if i ask your real name 23:48
(for reference)
Whiteknight Andrew
edd second name, only if you dont mind 23:50
i have to bibtex that article
Whiteknight bibtex? I've never been in a citation before!
kid51 edd: Try the IRC /w command
23:50 tetragon joined
Whiteknight Andrew Whitworth 23:51
kid51 tetragon ping
tetragon pong
kid51 Still in TO? I haven't been there in > 1 year now. Am experiencing withdrawal symptoms.
23:51 bacek_ joined
tetragon I'm still there 23:51
23:52 Limbic_Region joined
kid51 Still diving into the innards of Darwin and Macs? 23:52
tetragon I still deal with them and get annoyed with assumptions that all the world's GNU 23:53
cotto Whiteknight, how exCITING
kid51 Do you attend BSDCAN?
tetragon No 23:54
I may go to PGCon, though
kid51 I don't, but people in my NYC BSD user group will.
What/where is PGCon?
tetragon It's a PostgreSQL conference that's the week after BSDCAN at the University of Ottawa 23:55
kid51 I liked Ottawa when we had YAPC::CA at Carlton U there 6 years ago next month.
edd tetragon: know the felling re: GNU as an OpenBSD user 23:57
Whiteknight: thanks
Whiteknight no problem.
edd Whiteknight: sounds like an english name? 23:58
Whiteknight Welsh, I'm told 23:59

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