www.parrot.org | 1.5.0 "TEH PARROTZ!" Released! | Weekly development focus: Bugfixing and stability. Keep those branches merging!
Set by moderator on 26 August 2009.
darbelo Using a lower -j value and avoiding -dp sounds fine to me. 00:01
I'll eventually find another way to reach a 14+ load average :) 00:02
dalek rrot: r40847 | cotto++ | branches/pluggable_runcore (2 files):
[profiling] more cleanup and removal of unnecessary variables
 00:13
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dalek rrot: r40848 | cotto++ | branches/pluggable_runcore/src/runcore/cores.c:
[profiling] a few further cleanups and explanatory comments
 00:33
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jrtayloriv Is there an easy way to generate a random alpha-numeric string of length "n" in PIR? 00:46
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dukeleto 'ello 01:25
seen fperrad 01:31
purl fperrad was last seen on purl 6 days, 11 hours, 46 minutes and 41 seconds ago, saying: <private message> [Aug 22 13:37:56 2009]
dukeleto that's a bug
purl No, it's a feature.
dukeleto purl: you're right ;)
purl dukeleto: what?
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jrtayloriv Can I somehow unlink/delete a file through a Parrot IO object, or do I have to keep the path around and just use 'unlink filename'? Is there a way to get the filename from a Parrot IO obj? 02:33
Ryan52 gah a few months ago I was looking for allison on irc because I wanted to have a discussion with her, and then I changed my mind, and I've lurked the channel and seen her around a lot, and now I've changed my mind back, and she's not here :/ 02:34
anybody know when she's usually around nowadays?
cotto Ryan52, you may have to lurk a while before she shows up. You'll have better luck emailing her. 02:36
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cotto If it's a generic Parrot question, there's no harm in asking it here and seeing if anyone can answer it. 02:36
Ryan52 I *hate* email. =P
anyways, it's wrt the packaging of parrot and rakudo in Debian. 02:38
which I think is something I should discuss with her specifically, since from what I see she's already done a lot of work on it.
dukeleto Ryan52: you can leave a message 02:45
msg Ryan52 this is your message
purl Message for ryan52 stored.
02:45 Ryan52 left, Ryan52 joined
Ryan52 . 02:45
ah.
how do I retrieve my message?
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jdv79 messages 02:54
cotto massages 02:56
purl You have no massages waiting.
dukeleto purl, i need a massage 03:02
purl dukeleto: what?
cotto Massages are great, but I'm not sure I'd turn my back on purl. 03:04
dukeleto cotto++
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dalek TT #957 created by jrtayloriv++: [PATCH]: Remove need_ext from config/gen/crypto/digest_pmc.in 04:44
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cotto jrtayloriv, you can nopaste tiny patches like that here in the future. 04:56
jrtayloriv cotto, OK -- sorry
cotto don't worry about it 04:57
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dalek rrot: r40849 | cotto++ | trunk/config/gen/crypto/digest_pmc.in:
[dynpmc] remove obsolete need_ext from digest dynpmc template, jrtayloriv++ for the patch
 05:04
TT #957 closed by cotto++: [PATCH]: Remove need_ext from config/gen/crypto/digest_pmc.in
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nopaste "jrtayloriv" at 71.188.232.187 pasted "PATCH: docs/debugger.pod ( I don't think this is true anymore ...)" (23 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17732 05:12
Makoryu Hey folks. Is there a Parrot implementation of J (or K, or anything else based on APL)? 05:13
jrtayloriv at least, I always seem to have parrot_debugger when I make parrot 05:14
Makoryu, www.google.com/search?q=parrot+apl 05:15
Makoryu jrtayloriv: I'm aware there's an APL implementation. The names of APL derivatives are a bit harder to google for, however ;) 05:16
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jrtayloriv Makoryu, sorry about that then -- I thought you meant you were just looking for anything related to APL 05:25
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Makoryu jrtayloriv: I like the idea of APL, but... The encoding issue can be such a pain 05:29
dukeleto 'ello 05:49
jrtayloriv howdy 05:50
nopaste "jrtayloriv" at 71.188.232.187 pasted "[Patch]: Minor doc fixes" (77 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17733 05:51
jrtayloriv dukeleto, Think those are reasonable? 05:52
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dukeleto jrtayloriv: i think it would be better if you mentioned that parrot_debugger is built with the normal "make" command, but if you want to compile *only* the parrot_debugger, you can say "make parrot_debugger" 05:56
jrtayloriv ok I'll fix that
dukeleto jrtayloriv: and my other question would be, did the "kill unionval" branch land? 06:01
i see it at r40726
jrtayloriv dukeleto, Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by land. 06:02
I am using r40849 06:03
dukeleto jrtayloriv: i meant, was it merged into trunk? and then I found out that it was, in rev 40726 :)
so yes, your patch is a necessary update to the docs
nopaste "jrtayloriv" at 71.188.232.187 pasted "[Patch]: doc fixes" (82 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17734 06:05
jrtayloriv dukeleto, how about that (re: the debugger bit)
dukeleto jrtayloriv: the debugger stuff looks fine, but I think the indenting of the pdd17 stuff will break the rendering of the POD 06:08
jrtayloriv You mean I should just add spacing to make the PMC struct line up w/ the old one? 06:09
dukeleto jrtayloriv: yes. the indentation level of POD effects how it looks. run perldoc on the file to take a look 06:10
jrtayloriv yes -- it did break the formatting ... and I'll remove the /*properties*/ comment from the metadata field as well for readability since it's described right below anyway
nopaste "jrtayloriv" at 71.188.232.187 pasted "[Patch]: doc fixes" (85 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17735 06:16
jrtayloriv I also added a better description (I think) of the _metadata field for struct PMC
dukeleto, re: #955, why do you think the tempfile version of 'open' should be a dynop, rather than a builtin? 06:24
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jrtayloriv The only criteria I found for judging was that a built-in should be "sufficiently simple and fundamental, but at the same time are very common" (search.cpan.org/~arandal/parrot-1.0...od#Dynops) ... but that's kind of fuzzy. 06:26
dukeleto jrtayloriv: i didn't say it should. I asked if it should, since I assume that other people more experienced would know the pro/cons. If it was not deemed core-worthy, then it would probably be a dynop. If it was core-worthy, then a builtin.
jrtayloriv: i like your patch, except it looks like you have deleted the only mention of the deprecation of _synchronized. perhaps it would be better to leave it there 06:28
jrtayloriv OK -- didn't mean to do that actually. I'll fix it. 06:29
nopaste "jrtayloriv" at 71.188.232.187 pasted "[Patch]: doc fixes" (85 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17737 06:33
dalek rrot: r40850 | dukeleto++ | trunk/docs (2 files):
[t] Update docs regards building parrot_debugger and that UnionVal has been removed from the PMC struct, jrtayloriv++
 06:45
dukeleto jrtayloriv: nice work 06:48
jrtayloriv dukeleto, thank you for helping me clean it up. 06:49
dukeleto, in the file src/ops/io.ops for the op "open", what does the :filesys_open mean? 06:55
cotto The best I can come up with is that those flags had some intended purpose that was (mostly) never implemented. 07:00
jrtayloriv cotto, I think I found something related --> perldoc Opcode 07:01
something to do w/ "opcode masks"
cotto jrtayloriv++. That explains where those came from, even if they're not used extensively in Parrot. 07:05
jrtayloriv cotto, Yes -- lib/Parrot/Op*.pm are also providing a lot of info -- just do --> grep -rn ':flag' lib/Parrot/ 07:06
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jrtayloriv Anyone else here having trouble accessing parrot.org ? I can't get to trac or svn ... 07:30
kyle_l5l jrtayloriv, www. seems to be timing out here. 07:31
treed I'm having iffy access to it. 07:33
One machine times out at corv-car1-gw.nero.net
the other got through
(Different ISPs)
jrtayloriv oh well it's about bedtime for me anyhow -- good night all 07:40
cotto jrtayloriv, what's your timezone?
jrtayloriv cotto, US/Eastern 07:41
cotto yup. bedtime 07:42
jrtayloriv ;)
cotto they must be doing some maintenance at osu's osl where parrot.org is hosted 07:43
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dalek cnum-dynpmcs: r180 | darbelo++ | trunk/src/pmc/dec (2 files):
Let's leak some memory to get our tests passing again. Aren't order of
 09:06
TiMBuS does rakudo have a simple way to convert a regex result from a hierarchy of Match objects into just a hash? 09:23
its weird to pass around a big match tree (plus i cant seem flatten it into arguments for subs) 09:24
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darbelo Damm. dalek is slooooooow today. I commited r180 before going to bed. 09:39
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MoC Hrm, parrot svn down? 11:25
mikehh I'm not getting a response at the moment 11:27
darbelo MoC: looks like all of parrot.org is down right now
mikehh darbello: decnum_dynpmcs - make test PASS no probs 11:34
dammit I keep doubling the l 11:35
darbelo: decnum_dynpmcs - make test PASS no probs
0I must be thinking of bello or something :-} 11:36
still no response :-{ 11:37
I'm a waiting on an svn update 11:38
darbelo mikehh: I expected that. The bug is still there, it will segfault on calling the destroy VTABLE, I just hid it by leaking the memory. 11:42
there's a comment explaining it in decnumcontext.pmc 11:44
mikehh: It seems you are the only one testing this so I should give you a heads up: I'm thinking of rewriting the Configure script in pir, so 'perl Configure.pl' will change into 'parrot Configure.pir' in the near future. 11:49
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mikehh darbelo: an interesting thought - not sure how practical it is - all the other configure scripts use Configure.pl and it might be wise to maintain compatability - but go for it 12:15
darbelo: I looked at speleotrove.com/decimal/ foir the first time in a while and it has been updated a lot since I last looked 12:16
darbelo: in fact spent far too many hours perusing it 12:18
darbelo mikehh: It's an experiment, someday I'd like to depend on just parrot and a few basic tools, no perl at all.
mikehh that's the general idea for around 2.5/3.0 or something 12:19
darbelo mikehh: Yeah. But it will be easier to manage for parrot if somebody attempts it first on a smaller scale. 12:20
mikehh still no response from www.parot.org :-{
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mikehh darbelo: that's why I suggested - go for it, but I would recommend you retain the Configure.pl as an option 12:21
darbelo Depending on my mood I might make it a simple compatibility wrapper "system('parrot', 'Configure.pir')" :) 12:24
mikehh darbelo: that way you can say - Hey look my Configure.pir produces EXAXTLY thye same results as Configure.pl
EXACTLY
darbelo OTOH my Configure.pl has diverged a bit from the original implementation. 12:27
mikehh BTW I like the way the partcl Configure.pl reports the revision you used - I think some of the others (like rakudo) could use this - it certainly help me as I have a lot of different versions around 12:29
helps 12:30
anyway as I can't update parrot at the momennt I think I will take dog out and go to the store - bbl 12:33
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JimmyZ parrot.org is too slow. 14:07
jrtayloriv JimmyZ, It's down right now for a lot of people.
someone earlier said that they were able to access it via one ISP, but not another. 14:08
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JimmyZ ... 14:32
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jhorwitz just got here...anyone else having issues w/ {svn,www}.parrot.org? 15:01
i'll send a message to the OSUOSL admins 15:04
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jhorwitz ah, things appear to be back online 15:23
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yath ehm 15:47
compilers/pirc/src/pir.l says "DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE"
and refers to compilers/pirc/new/pir.l
but, eh, there aren't that many .l files in parrot... 15:48
or is this meant to be to included in the generated c file? 15:49
hm, seems so 15:51
payload parrot.org is down? 16:02
hmm :/
can someone put a recent clone on gitorious.org? :D 16:03
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jhorwitz payload: i have the admins looking into it now (parrot.org). 16:03
jrtayloriv jhorwitz, seems to be working for me now -- thanks 16:04
(both www and svn) 16:05
jhorwitz yeah, trac was still down a few mins ago.
everything else seems fine
mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, smoke, nqp_test, fulltest) at r40850 - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 (g++) 16:07
dalek rrot: r40851 | NotFound++ | trunk (3 files):
[core] more refactoring of pmc destruction
 16:10
rrot: r40852 | NotFound++ | trunk/tools/dev/pbc_to_exe.pir:
init stacktop in fakecutables
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mikehh rakudo (7666e92) builds on parrot r40850, make test / make spectest (up to r28110) PASS - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 (g++) 16:17
partcl r647 builds on parrot r40850 - make test - same 6 tests fail but all subtests PASS - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 (g++) 16:24
dalek cnum-dynpmcs: r181 | darbelo++ | trunk/src/pmc/dec (2 files):
Convert DecNum and DecInt to use auto_attrs.
 16:26
darbelo dalek is not being a speedy bot today, I'll tell you that. 16:29
cognominal it seems that parrot has problems to build with snow leopard 16:32
apparently, some test gave a crash. Too bad I dismissed the pop up 16:33
and downstream I get : 16:34
error:imcc:The opcode 'getattribute_s_p_sc' (getattribute<3>) was not found. Check the type and number of the arguments
in file 'compilers/pge/PGE/Exp.pir' line 1345
some deprceation messages fo glut too : AVAILABLE_MAC_OS_X_VERSION_10_2_AND_LATER_BUT_DEPRECATED_IN_MAC_OS_X_VERSION_10_5 16:35
mikehh decnum_dynpmcs r181 builds on parrot r40850 - make test PASS - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 (g++) 16:36
cardinal builds on parrot r40850 - make test same as r40842 - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 (g++) 16:37
cognominal 0 test_45972 \t0x0000000100000ee6 Parrot_memcpy_aligned_mmx_code + 6 16:44
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yath is PAST and POST only used by the PCT or by parrot itself? 16:58
+also
jrtayloriv Why do parrot_string_t and buffer_t use 'void *' while struct PMC uses DPOINTER? Should parrot_string_t and buffer_t be using DPOINTER as well? 16:59
dalek TT #936 reopened by jkeenan++: "make install" doesn't install PCT 17:01
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dalek rrot: r40853 | jkeenan++ | trunk/MANIFEST.generated:
Merge tt936_install_pct branch into trunk. Changes metadata for PCT-related files so that PCT gets installed with 'make install' rather than 'make install-dev'. See trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/936.
 17:04
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cognominal apparently parrotbug ate my report :( 17:08
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dalek TT #936 closed by jkeenan++: "make install" doesn't install PCT 17:25
TT #958 created by jrtayloriv++: [PATCH]: Doc fixes related to GC and UnionVal
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dalek rrot: r40854 | jkeenan++ | branches/tt936_install_pct:
Branch has been merged into trunk and is no longer needed at HEAD.
 17:28
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Whiteknight hello #parrot 17:38
jrtayloriv hoody hoo
Whiteknight jrtayloriv: you're right, need_ext is obsolete now
jrtayloriv Whiteknight, yes -- cotto already applied the patch to remove it 17:39
Whiteknight awesome. jrtayloriv++ 17:40
dukeleto 'ello 17:45
Whiteknight hello dukeleto
dukeleto cognominal: did you find a bug in parrotbug?
Whiteknight: how goes it?
msg chromatic refactor of your config_lib.pasm updating script: nopaste.snit.ch/17739 17:46
purl Message for chromatic stored.
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chromatic duk3leto, I think you mean chomp( $revision = `git svn find-rev HEAD` ); 17:54
yath hm. say, does anyone want to enlighten me (not having a degree in CS) why a register-based VM is better than a stack-based one? 17:55
treed www.sagecertification.org/events/ve...-yunhe.pdf
Whiteknight register-based requires fewer instructions to manipulate the order of things on the stack 17:56
yath treed: ha, thanks
dukeleto chromatic: it wasn't my refactor, just passing it along
treed (I actually have no idea if that paper comes to that conclusion.)
dukeleto chromatic: but I agree :)
Whiteknight and less logic pushings things and popping them
it's really not a "better" so much as a "different"
yath Whiteknight: but why did people build stack-based VMs in the first place?
+then
Whiteknight yath: easier to manage a single stack instead of dynamic register sets
treed (Just a PDF I found on the subject just now.
yath Whiteknight: ah, hm 17:57
dukeleto yath: the Factor language is probably the best modern stack-based vm. it makes sense, because it is a stack-based language
yath: factorcode.org
chromatic Stack VMs are really easy to write. 17:58
yath dukeleto: hm, looks a bit like erlang :)
and what about optimization stuff?
i mean: why didn't, say, java, changed to using a register-based VM? 17:59
treed (The paper does, in fact, come to that conclusion.) 18:00
yath okay, i'll read it then :)
thanks, treed
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treed We found that a register architecture requires an average 18:01
of 47% fewer executed VM instructions, and that the re
sulting register code is 25% larger than the correpsonding
stack code. The increased cost of fetching more VM code
chromatic www.inf.puc-rio.br/~roberto/docs/MCC15-04.pdf
dukeleto did trac's ssl cert change? 18:05
cotto looks like it expired 18:06
Whiteknight, ping 18:10
dalek rrot: r40855 | cotto++ | branches/pluggable_runcore (2 files):
[profiling] catch the edge case where the file changes on an inner runloop
 18:12
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Whiteknight cotto: pong 18:16
cotto Whiteknight, interesting GC misbehavior - trac.parrot.org/parrot/browser/bra...0855#L1093
Whiteknight okay, I'll look at it but am pretty busy today 18:17
cotto there's a very easy workaround, so don't worry about it too much
It's very hard to reconcile laziness with avoiding ->strstart . 18:24
dukeleto cotto: the debugger uses ->strstart all over 18:30
cotto: chromatic told me it was evil, but I don't quite understand why.
Whiteknight probably because strings are evil, at least as they are implemented now 18:33
jrtayloriv dukeleto, I saw something in the docs for pdd28_strings.pod that said: {{DEPRECATION NOTE: the C<char *> pointer C<strstart> will be removed. It
complicates the entire string subsystem for a tiny optimization on substring
operations, and offset math is messy with encodings that aren't byte-based.
oops --sorry
cotto It'll be a huge pain if anyone gets ambitious enough to do a string refactor. 18:34
dukeleto cotto: so you are saying that ->strstart should be abolished from our codebase? 18:36
cotto we should be using something that allows encapsulation, e.g. Parrot_str_to_cstring in non-string code instead of depending on a STRING's internal structure. 18:37
It wouldn't be so bad except that the value returned from Parrot_str_to_cstring has to be freed. 18:38
dukeleto cotto: perhaps a less carpal-tunnel-inducing pair of macros can be made to emulate the laziness of ->strstart ? 18:39
cotto (assuming that we don't like memory leaks)
It'd be worth a shot. 18:40
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cotto It'd be nice if the return value from Parrot_str_to_cstring could be made GCable. 18:43
and yes, I do also want a pony. 18:44
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Whiteknight IF anybody is brave enough to do a proper strings refactor, it will be done in many many many small steps 19:21
kid51 Wasn't strings refactoring something simon was working on? 19:22
Whiteknight I know he was working on prototyping some of it in Perl6
I don't think his work extended beyond those prototypes though 19:23
kid51 What's in this branch? svn.parrot.org/parrot/branches/string/
Sorry: svn.parrot.org/parrot/branches/strings/ 19:24
Whiteknight I believe it's just his P6 prototypes of the new strings functions
I don't think he did any C work at all
kid51 trac.parrot.org/parrot/browser has this log message: simon: First stab at char indexing of NFG strings. 19:26
No activity in 7 months. 19:27
Whiteknight kid51: I don't know what the status of that work is, I don't think the branch should be deleted without consulting allison first 19:29
I really just don't know enough about it 19:30
kid51 I wasn't suggesting deletion. 19:43
chromatic Removing _synchronize from the PMC struct gets a 4.768% performance improvement on the primes.pasm benchmark. 19:45
kid51 chromatic: On your modernperlbooks site, if I wish to make a comment I have to sign in with a Movable Type username and password. Do you know if that is specific to your site or something more general to Movable Type? 19:46
chromatic I think it's specific to MT. I know OpenID works; some people use that instead.
kid51 The problem is that it uses a "password recovery phrase" model to restore passwords. I can remember neither the password nor the recovery phrase. 19:47
chromatic I can reset your password. 19:48
cotto I hate those.
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kid51 chromatic: Please do! thanks. 19:49
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jrtayloriv Why do parrot_string_t and buffer_t use 'void *' while struct PMC uses 'DPOINTER *'? When is 'DPOINTER *' supposed to be used instead of 'void *'? 20:36
mikehh BTW svn update claims that the certificate for *.parrot.org has expired 20:37
- Hostname: *.parrot.org 20:42
- Valid: from Fri, 29 Aug 2008 16:54:34 GMT until Sat, 29 Aug 2009 16:54:34 GMT
dalek TT #953 closed by jkeenan++: [gc] t/op/copy.t failure in OpenBSD amd64 20:47
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kid51 Whiteknight ping 20:52
Whiteknight kid51: ping 20:53
or pong
or whatever
mikehh: yes, the certificate is gone
or at least expired 20:54
kid51 Whiteknight: are you in a position to review what jrtayloriv has submitted in trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/958? 20:55
jrtayloriv Whiteknight, just about to add one more minor patch to the ticket -- one sec 20:56
there ya go 20:57
Whiteknight kid51: busy most of the day today, can't review it till tomorrow PM
(sorry, I'm in a meeting)
kid51 np
mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, smoke, nqp_test, fulltest) at r40855 - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 (gcc) 21:02
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mikehh rakudo (7666e92) builds on parrot r40855, make test PASS / make spectest (up to r28114) 1 FAILure - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 (gcc) 21:17
t/spec/S06-operator-overloading/sub.rakudo - Failed test: 45 - Parse errors: Bad plan. You planned 44 tests but ran 45. 21:18
pmichaud rakudo: say any('foo','bar').WHAT 21:22
polyglotbot OUTPUT[Parrot VM: Can't stat languages/perl6/perl6.pbc, code 2.␤main: Packfile loading failed␤]
Whiteknight kid51: I think I'm busy on Sept 12th 21:29
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mikehh rakudo (7666e92) builds on parrot r40855, make test PASS / make spectest (up to r28115) PASS - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 (gcc) 21:32
partcl r647 builds on parrot r40855 - make test - same 6 tests fail but all subtests PASS - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 (gcc) 21:36
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mikehh cardinal builds on parrot r40855 - make test - 3 FAILures due to - get_pmc_keyed() not implemented in class 'String' - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 (gcc) 21:47
decnum_dynpmcs r181 builds on parrot r40855 - make test PASS - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 (gcc) 21:51
lua faiuls to build - error:imcc:make_pmc_const: no such pmc - in file 'lua.pir' line 307 - make: *** [lua.pbc] Error 1 21:54
fails 21:55
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jrtayloriv picks his nose while nobody's looking ... 23:58

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