Parrot 2.4.0 "Sulfur Crest" Released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | Nopaste: nopaste.snit.ch:8001 | GSOC Students: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GSoCersStartHere
Set by moderator on 2 June 2010.
jnthn whiteknight: So may have some bad assumptions in the Rakudo C bits as a result. 00:00
cotto_work I'm pretty sure we trace it.
bacek_at_work we _can_ trace it
But we _don't_ do it. 00:02
Check "Parrot_gc_trace_root" function
when GC call it without specifying GC_TRACE_FULL we don't trace stack. 00:03
But we do sweep of pool after
nopaste "bacek" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Prove that we don't trace stack" (18 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/20897 00:04
bacek_at_work flags == 0. 00:05
gc_trace_root doesn't trace stack in this case
dalek rrot: r47347 | tcurtis++ | branches/gsoc_past_optimization (2 files):
All PAST::Pattern and subclass attributes test for exact matching correctly(except for "symtable"); now for children.
bacek_at_work Bang
bacek_at_work I would _love_ to be wrong. But I'm not (at least in this case). 00:07
And current GC works by accident...
.oO( Did I scare everyone? )
 00:23
sorear no 00:25
whiteknight bacek_at_work: well, damnit
bacek_at_work: we used to trace it. I've seen it done
sorear I've long known that our GC runs on steady supply of miracles
whiteknight miracles? Don't you mean nightmares of young children? 00:26
bacek_at_work whiteknight, probably. But we don't now.
sorear whiteknight: elder gods are still gods, and what they deliver are still miracles...
bacek_at_work It was one of "gotchas" in gc_massacre branch when I did some performance testing. 00:27
sorear anyways, this is obviously why allocating objects in imcc doesn't work
bacek_at_work And all this "if PMC_data(SELF)" inside .mark VTABLE are just wallpapering main problem. 00:29
sorear I've always hated those lines 00:34
cotto So why aren't we tracing the stack? Performance? 00:36
bacek_at_work "stupidity"?
cotto then flip that bit and let's get some sanity into this bird 00:39
or does that make things even more broken?
bacek_at_work cotto, I dunno. But I want to kill current GC anyway :) 00:40
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Coke dukeleto: ping. 00:59
or, anyone with git-fu: ping. 01:01
sorear pong. 01:02
Coke have a git branch 'revive'. wish to replace master with it. 01:04
I did 'git branch -M revive master'. 01:05
I can't push now. 01:06
"fix me". =-)
ah. found:
stackoverflow.com/questions/2862590...her-branch 01:07
can't do a git push origin :master (deletion of current branch prohibited) 01:08
seen dukeleto? 01:09
purl dukeleto was last seen on #parrot 2 hours, 27 minutes and 52 seconds ago, saying: now i get this: gist.github.com/424624 when loading perl6.pbc from C
bacek_at_work Coke,git checkout revive; git push origin :master; git push origin master 01:11
cotto pmichaud, ping
sorear Coke: git push -f origin master 01:14
Coke bacek_at_work: stackoverflow.com/questions/2862590...her-branch 01:17
er...
! [remote rejected] master (deletion of the current branch prohibited)
I get that on git push origin :master 01:18
bacek_at_work Coke, try: git push origin revive; git push origin :master; git push origin master; 01:19
sorear this is why you use git push -f origin master instead
no colon, but :
no colon, but -f
Coke yup, the -f worked. 01:20
... does that look right on github.com/partcl/partcl ?
looks like revive still exists, pushing that... 01:22
dalek rtcl: bb6b58e | plobsing++ | runtime/tcllib.pir:
avoid using uninitialized HLL-mapped strings in startup
 01:23
rtcl: ea247be | Coke++ | config/PARROT_VERSION:
Track the parrot version we've gotten back to on this branch.
rtcl: 2579fb0 | Coke++ | t/cmd_namespace.t:
Untodo some passing tests!
rtcl: bdc5273 | Coke++ | runtime/builtin/cd.pir:
[cd] should return the empty string;

been fixed.
rtcl: 4b56723 | Coke++ | src/grammar/expr/operators.pir:
as ** stopped coercing to int properly, force it to be an int for now.
rtcl: b2d258b | Coke++ | config/PARROT_VERSION:
track progress.
rtcl: 7d30d88 | Coke++ | (15 files):
Get past the TT #389 "fix"
rtcl: 9c289e0 | Coke++ | (3 files):
Track immutable strings mergeback in parrot.
rtcl: 8e5cc43 | Coke++ | config/makefiles/root.in:
Remove unused config var.
rtcl: 3d716f9 | Coke++ | runtime/builtin/lsort.pir:
These opcodes were removed from parrot.
rtcl: 1b67909 | Coke++ | (14 files):
track string opcode changes
rtcl: 937f31f | Coke++ | (2 files):
track dynop migration
rtcl: 41b6b13 | Coke++ | src/pmc/tcl (3 files):
*attrs now required.
rtcl: 70fbc44 | Coke++ | config/PARROT_VERSION:
works on a recent parrot.
Coke sorear++ 01:26
mikehh Coke: I get conflicts if I try git pull
Coke bacek++
dukeleto++
mikehh: yup. I just killed master and snuck something in its place.
I think you might need to do a fresh clone.
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cotto pmichaud, unping 01:30
Coke purl, msg whiteknight partcl is once again functional. 01:32
purl Message for whiteknight stored.
sorear mikehh: you'll need to use git pull --rebase 01:41
Coke sorear++
dalek rtcl: d931d6e | plobsing++ | config/makefiles/root.in:
use newer ops2c
 01:45
Coke msg whiteknight forks & pull requests for partcl are cool, btw. 01:47
purl Message for whiteknight stored.
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plobsing hi #parrot 01:54
Coke hio! 02:08
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plobsing Coke: I discovered a happy accident that might get TT #906 unstuck. 02:16
Coke www.boingboing.net/2010/05/30/maggi...-perf.html for fun. 02:38
plobsing: what's that? 02:40
plobsing I didn't cover the corner case for PIR syntax sugar using assignments 02:42
I figure all the ops we want to use assign with that don't fit the assignment mold have sugared forms. 02:43
which means you can do "$P0 = $P1 * $P2" just fine.
tcurtis I'd like to clarify that my commit message that will be showing up in a moment is not entirely true. Only exact matching of children works so far. Committed before I realized I omitted the qualifier. 02:49
dalek rrot: r47348 | tcurtis++ | branches/gsoc_past_optimization (2 files):
Children matching works!
 02:50
tcurtis tcurtis-- for that. 02:51
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dalek kudo: e92a5f4 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/metaops.pm:
Allow embedded hashes in array hypers.

approximation.		 03:26
purl approximation is the trapdoor.
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cotto seen pmichaud 06:02
purl pmichaud was last seen on #parrot 6 hours, 23 minutes and 37 seconds ago, saying: gotta run -- bbl
cotto pmichaud, ping
06:06 uniejo joined
cotto seen khairul 06:08
purl khairul was last seen on #parrot 2 days, 10 hours, 15 minutes and 44 seconds ago, saying: see t/pmc/scheduler.t [Jun 1 19:52:46 2010]
cotto msg khairul It turns out I'll be free Friday if you want to chat. 06:09
purl Message for khairul stored.
dukeleto 'ello 06:15
06:15 LoganLK joined
cotto hi 06:17
dukeleto cotto: how is gsoc going for you? 06:18
cotto great
khairul is doing a good job and has been responsive to questions so far 06:19
06:20 aukjan joined
cotto I do need to ask why I haven't seen much out of him in the last couple days, but thinking would be a valid reason. 06:21
dukeleto cotto: i don't know about him, but many students have finals coming up 06:27
cotto: do you both have a regular meeting time ? 06:29
cotto istr him being done with school, but I like remembering things incorrectly
yup
monday evenings (my time)
he prefers privmsgs
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mikehh Coke: when I try a git clone on partcl I get the following - fatal: github.com/partcl/partcl/info/refs not found: did you run git update-server-info on the server? 07:00
moritz mikehh: try the git:// URL, that's usually more reliable 07:01
dalek kudo: 8b116ff | moritz++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
bump PARROT_REVISION to get latest nqp-rx fixes for ** quantifier and :sigspace
 07:20
mikehh moritz: yes - I think I seriously need some sleep 07:37
dalek kudo: a1695f0 | (Timothy Totten)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
Implemented Date.new(::DateTime) and DateTime.Date()

Signed-off-by: Moritz Lenz <moritz@faui2k3.org>		 07:43
purl methods are slower than constants.
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dalek rrot: r47349 | gerd++ | trunk/tools/util/inc_ver.pir:
rewritten with I/O in method style
 09:13
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dalek p-rx: 42209fb | pmichaud++ | src/ (3 files):
":my" in regexes is now properly declarative for LTM purposes.
 09:18
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dalek kudo: 738fad4 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/metaops.pm:
Extend prefix and postfix array hypers to handle nested hashes.
 09:51
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dalek rrot: r47350 | fperrad++ | trunk/tools/install/smoke.pl:
[install] fix some tests
 11:57
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dalek rrot: r47351 | gerd++ | trunk/tools/util/inc_ver.pir:
remove whitespace
 12:46
rrot: r47352 | khairul++ | branches/gsoc_instrument (3 files):
Reworked the data structures for the hooks, use a linked list now instead.
khairul msg cotto great, i'll come find you then. 12:47
purl Message for cotto stored.
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Coke perldoc checking is broken on ubuntu's moblin. (perldoc is installed, visible in /usr/bin/perldoc, Configure.pl doesn't notice) 13:17
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whiteknight good morning, #parrot 13:42
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ash_ does parrot have policies for 3rd party stuff in the core? 14:44
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PerlJam ash_: I think the policy is "no" :) But that's only a first approximation. 14:52
ash_ just wondering, it just might be convenient to bundle libffi in the source, kinda like python does, or at least i can make a script that will download it if its not installed 14:54
davidfetter hrm. does that include ICU?
jnthn Parrot used to have ICU in core in the good old days, and we always built it, so you always had unicode support. 14:55
s/in core/in the repo/
ash_ i could do a Configure.pl --install-libffi maybe...
PerlJam ash_: I'd ask allison for something more definitive. don't take my word for it. 14:56
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Coke second approximation is also no. 15:01
ls
ww
NotFound ash_: is not our task to install other things in user's systems. 15:04
ash_ true... i just wanted to make it easier 15:05
NotFound ash_: that's not easy at all. Is a source of problems. 15:06
dalek rrot: r47353 | NotFound++ | trunk/t/pmc/fixedintegerarray.t:
tests for FIA get_repr and is_equal to different type
 15:15
whiteknight ash_: What license does libffi use? 15:25
ash_ an MIT liscense 15:26
but spelled right
whiteknight ok
better bet is to get a configure probe for the library, and define a macro or something to say whether the library is available 15:28
then, conditionally compile your code using that flag
ash_ i already have the config stuff working 15:29
whiteknight okay, that's most of the battle
ash_ okay, i need more eyes on this, i am trying to test the parser i wrote to parse signatures, and I cannot for the life of me see where this one bit with the structures is going wrong. gist.github.com/5361a2d1bc4e0868eeb4 is a copy of my code currently 15:30
mberends ash_: on debian-ish systems you can install libffi-dev 15:31
ash_ yeah, its already installed on OS X, but windows is the only one that might be tricky i think
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ash_ at line 423 i call my function with a struct using the normal way to define a libffi struct, then like 429 i call the function with my dynamically generated one, up to that point everything in the debugger seems correct 15:33
whiteknight weird 15:34
so what happens?
ash_ and the normal libffi definition of the signature works, my signature i made with the parser doesn't
i get r3 = 8 for the libffi signature, my parsers signature gives 0;
if you put a break point in the add_struct a.x and a.y are both 0 15:35
:-\\
normal signatures are working fine though so far
and by normal i mean ones without structs
I am building it with clang -I/opt/local/lib/libffi-3.0.9/include -L/opt/local/lib -lffi parse_sig.c -o parse_sig -g if you want to test it out, you'll need to correct the paths for your system of course 15:43
pkg-config libffi --cflags --libs might work if its installed on your system 15:44
Coke fyi, the hash seed issue is still impacting [incr] in partcl-nqp
(t/cmd_incr.t fails sporadically ) 15:45
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davidfetter oi ruoso 15:53
tewk Coke: didn't microsoft offer remote machines for perl/parrot developers? I'm looking for a contact for another open source project. 16:00
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dalek rrot: r47354 | NotFound++ | trunk/src/pmc/boolean.pmc:
modify Boolean init_pmc to shorten it and allow better coverage
 16:04
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particle tewk: alias was working on that, i don't know what ever happened to it 16:09
it was supposed to be that anyone with a pause id could get access
ash_ ... i figured it out, i was just being dumb with a pointer, well now i can parse structs, and signed vs unsigned char/short/int/long/long long's 16:16
whiteknight ash_++ # nice!
ash_ and pointers work
pmichaud good morning, #parrot 16:17
whiteknight good morning, pmichaud 16:18
pmichaud whiteknight: I'm really excited about your observations on the return continuations last night... I'm wondering when I'll get a chance to update nqp to use it :) 16:19
whiteknight pmichaud: I'm glad to be of service! My big motivation is to get Matrixy's call/return semantics fixed, and I think these changes will really help 16:20
pmichaud also, I have to figure out if nqp's "return" structure needs to be more like parrot's .return() or rakudo's return(), or if there's even a conflict.
still working out that detail.
whiteknight does nqp do nested lexical scopes?
pmichaud yes, at least as far as I understand the term "nested lexical scopes" :-) 16:21
jnthn pmichaud: At the moment, Rakudo always wants to return just one thing (a Parcel)
pmichaud jnthn: right.
jnthn pmichaud: Which is pretty much spec.
whiteknight I mean, is one function in NQP composed of multiple lexical .subs in Parrot?
pmichaud whiteknight: yes, unless NQP knows it can optimize one out.
whiteknight oh, nice 16:22
whiteknight loves hearing the word "optimize"
pmichaud (which it can do for blocks that don't have any local lexical declarations)
jnthn pmichaud: Thing is we may want to do list assignment, or perhaps coerce it to a Capture so we can do a bind and unpack stuff.
pmichaud jnthn: looking. 16:23
jnthn pmichaud: So it's best to keep it as one parcel until something we return it to supplies a context.
pmichaud: Either way, if PCT supports multiple return values, that's fine. Rakudo will just return one value that is a parcel.
pmichaud jnthn: yes, but the difference between a parcel and a list is really just :flat/:slurpy, though
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jnthn pmichaud: We depend on the thingy coming back as being of type Parcel ATM. 16:24
(If there's multiple values.)
I'd really rather not change that, since it's one place where things are easy because we just do it pretty much per spec. ;-) 16:25
pmichaud I'm not proposing that rakudo chagne.
*change
jnthn OK, then I'm happy. :-)
pmichaud I'm asking whether nqp absolutely has to do the same, or whether having nqp do a multi-return value sort of thing can work also.
jnthn pmichaud: One consideration is that VMs having a concept of multiple return values is kinda rare. 16:26
pmichaud in many ways it would be nice (for Parrot) if return $x, $y, $z could result in .return ($P0, $P1, $P2)
jnthn Yes, true. 16:27
pmichaud currently return $x, $y, $z causes NQP to return a RPA containing $x, $y, and $z (basically same as rakudo)
jnthn Thing is that then does NQP let you say e.g. my ($x, $y, $z) := func(); 16:28
(That is, do we have a way to accept multiple return values.)
pmichaud don't know yet
that's part of what would need to be worked out
(and I'm still thinking about the notion of binding in this manner anyway) 16:29
jnthn pmichaud: Well, in the above case in Rakudo we fall straight into the signature binder.
sorear multiple return values... in NQP?
pmichaud right. and in nqp/parrot, our signature binder is effectively PCC
jnthn It'd somewhat fit NQP to implement it in terms of Parrot's signature support.
pmichaud exactly.
jnthn And for other VMs we'll need the same machinary for Perl 6 anyways, so I guess it's hardly a porting impediment. 16:30
OK, I think +1.
pmichaud jnthn: yeah, as I said -- I'm still having to think through the ramifications. :-)
but the notion that other VMs would need similar machinery is something I hadn't really thought of yet, so +1 for that 16:31
ash_ sweet, now i have a test of it loading a library dynamically, making a signature and calling it with libffi, if anyone wants to see. Now i just have to put that back into parrot...
jnthn pmichaud: In a sense, PCC just packages all the arguments up into one data structure anyway. ;-)
pmichaud: The one place we're likely to hit a nasty difference is named return arguments. 16:32
pmichaud jnthn: yes, that's true also. It creates a CallSignature or something like that iirc.
jnthn pmichaud: Because:
pmichaud I'm not too worried about named return arguments for nqp. So far we haven't had much of a need for them.
jnthn sub foo() { return 1, 2, :c<3> }; my ($a, $b, $c) = foo(); # $c is a Pair
sub foo() { return 1, 2, :c<3> }; my ($a, $b, $c) := foo(); # also works because of named to positional mapping, but $c is 3 16:33
sub foo() { return 1, 2, :c<3> }; my ($a, $b, :$c) := foo(); # $c is 3
Oh heh
pmichaud nqp doesn't have assignment, so the first one isn't an issue. :)
jnthn The binding case *would* do what Parrot does :-)
Gee, good job nqp doesn't do assignment. :-)
pmichaud well, that's partially why it doesn't do assignment. 16:34
sorear all of what you're talking about now has been on my wishlist for weeks
pmichaud A lot of things become much simpler if we don't have to worry about list assignment versus item assignment versuss...
and if we treat everything as a bind
jnthn Indeed.
pmichaud sorear: glad we're hitting your wishlist :) 16:35
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Coke tewk: theoretically. I heard something from alias about that a long time ago, pinged him recently, and am pretty sure I got no helpful reply. Checking... 16:43
tewk If microsoft is still doing the program I'd like to just get a contact I can send an email to. 16:47
particle i know folks at ms that may be aware of a program... cotto_work for example. 16:48
Coke tewk: ah, I remember. I emailed alias's cpan addr, which bounced, then I tracked him down on IRC. pretty sure I got a "yes, I'm the guy doing that" and not much else.
but that irc window is long long gone.
particle Coke: your client doesn't capture history?
my every conversation is logged 16:49
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Coke I'll be sure to mention that to the lawyers. ;) 16:50
particle logged "for training purposes" ;)
cotto ohai 16:51
whiteknight all the smolder reports I've submitted this morning look god 17:01
good
There isn't a single linux/gcc report in the list of the last 5 reports 17:02
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japhb Anyone here from the PaFo board? 17:40
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Coke IWBNI if 'make smoke' didn't wait until the end to complain about not having LWP::UserAgent 17:43
japhb: yes.
japhb Coke: Have you heard anything about whether my Plumage grant application was shopped around, and if so, whether anything came of it? Last I heard, it had been board approved, and shopping was soon to commence ... then nothing. 17:44
Coke "board approved" is strong language. =-) 17:45
japhb "Not board rejected"? :-)
Coke I believe Allison was going to do the shopping, and she is in the middle of finals, IIRC.
japhb *sigh*
Any idea when her school year is over? 17:46
Coke we just don't have a grants/fundraising presence at the moment. it's something I would definitely vote for if someone ran for the board on. =_)
I think she said she'd be freed up next week. I have no idea if shopping you about is still on her radar.
japhb Fair enough. 17:47
Thank you for the info.
Coke I wish I had contacts to raise money.
japhb Ditto. ;-) 17:48
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dukeleto Parrot could get funding via running on RTEMS. Parrot on RTEMS opens up many, many doors. 18:19
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bubaflub booyah. 18:23
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cotto_work tewk: ping 18:24
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tewk cotto_work: yes 18:30
cotto_work what was that MS program you wanted to know about?
tewk MS? 18:31
purl somebody said MS was 'WE HATE USERS AND WANT YOU TO DIE'
cotto_work microsoft
purl microsoft is not a software company, it's an abuse company that delivers it's abuse through software or moishelettvin.blogspot.com/2006/11/...pfest.html or banking on their secret R&D.. robotic voice controlled helper monkeys or www.cracked.com/blog/2008/04/18/the...ooner-est/
tewk alias had a contact that supposedly was going to provide remote desktop access to windows machines for developing opensource software. 18:32
a microsoft contact that is
cotto_work I got that started but I'm not sure who his direct contact at MS is. 18:33
tewk Well I was looking to make the same connections for PLT Scheme 18:34
cotto_work Have you tried talking to alias? 18:35
tewk cotto_work: no coke just told me to talk to alias. I just found a local windows box I can use, but it would be nice to just rdesktop to one a microsoft, instead of hunting around and installing one locally every time i need it. 18:42
cotto_work ok. There's #msopensource on irc.perl.org, though it's not very active. 18:43
tewk cotto_work: ok thanks 18:44
cotto_work If you'd like, I can also take a shot at getting you a downloadable copy of VS 2010. 18:49
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tewk cotto_work: thanks, I have access to msdnaa, I just need different architectures and large multi-core boxes to run tests on. 18:52
cotto_work2 ok
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dalek rrot: r47355 | tcurtis++ | branches/gsoc_past_optimization (3 files):
Fix my pir:: ops to use the appropriate signature syntax. Previously, they has been working purely by accident, seemingly.
 19:08
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cotto_work2 who adds feeds to planet parrot? 19:17
planet parrot? 19:18
purl planet parrot is an aggregate of any parrot-related blogs. or editable by coke or changable with a trac ticket. or planet.parrotcode.org/
cotto_work msg coke Khairul's blog parrot.mangkok.com/ should be added to planet parrot. 19:19
purl Message for coke stored.
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dalek rrot: r47356 | tcurtis++ | branches/gsoc_past_optimization (2 files):
Begin implementing smart matching PAST::Pattern children & tests for smart matching of children that are also PAST::Patterns.
 19:41
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dalek kudo: 7c83e65 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Any-list.pm:
Switch sub version of map to take slurpy values.
 20:08
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dalek rrot: r47357 | tcurtis++ | branches/gsoc_past_optimization (2 files):
Smart matching on PAST::Pattern, regex, and sub children tested and working.
 20:47
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dalek rtcl-nqp: 25f4b03 | Coke++ | src/Partcl.pir:
printerr is now a parrot dynop.
 21:27
sorear Coke: What's the status of partcl vs. partcl-nqp? 21:31
Coke sorear: both now work against parrot HEAD!
basically the same state as master vs. ng in rakudo, before ng became master. 21:32
need more? 21:33
sorear no
Coke cotto_work: done. 21:39
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cotto_work Coke: thanks! 22:15
GeJ Good morning everyone. 22:19
davidfetter g'day, GeJ 22:20
GeJ Bonjour davidfetter 22:21
bacek Good morning, humans 22:22
sorear Greetings.
purl somebody said Greetings. was anyone awake?
cotto_work hi bacek
bacek aloha, cotto_work
GeJ G'Day bacek. 22:23
bacek G'Day GeJ 22:24
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ash_ what is the nci attribute 'long_signature' used for? i don't see it actually used anywhere in the source code 22:58
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dalek tracwiki: v15 | bacek++ | GCMassacre 23:18
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GCMassa...ction=diff
23:32 joeri joined
ash_ it seems to be used in multi-dispatch 23:41

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