Parrot 2.11.0 Released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | Onward and upward with Google Code-In | Please test all nwellnhof/* branches | Merge html_cleanup
Set by moderator on 24 December 2010.
NotFound Coke: if people insist on consting parameters disregarding warnings and common sense, I can't fight alone. 00:00
Coke NotFound: help me fix one of the broken files, I'll see what I can do about the rest.
NotFound Coke: wich one?
Coke rebuilding at HEAD... 00:01
frontend/parrot_debugger/main.c 00:02
NotFound plumage installed from the new repo is able to install rakudo and it works fine, so I can say that plumage isn't broken.
Coke first is that Parrot_set_config_hash "was not declared in scope"
that's declared in parrot/global_setup.h, which is included from parrot.h, which that file includes. 00:03
NotFound The functions in that file aren't PARROT_EXPORT'ed 00:04
whiteknight hmmm... I suspect parrot/global_setup.h should not contain Parrot_set_config_hash anymore
let me take a look at it
NotFound I see Parrot_set_config_hash_pmc 00:05
Yuki`N cotto, Unfortunately since I have the text in pre tags, we can't use wiki formatting. 00:06
I don't see any better way to preserve the whitespace of the original source though.
Coke gah. make headerizer is failing also.
NotFound: gah. good catch. :P 00:07
dukeleto ~~
NotFound Coke: if I make frontend/parrot_debugger/main.o in a C build I see a lot of warnings. No need for a C++ build to note that there are pitfalls.
cotto_work Yuki`N: you could use a fixed-width font and change spaces to   . Generated code can be ugly and we have a codingstd test against tabs. 00:08
Yuki`N Oh I can insert raw HTML, problem solved. 00:09
cotto_work did you find {{{#html...}}}? 00:10
Yuki`N Yeah.
cotto_work ok
that'll be fine 00:11
00:11 patspam joined, patspam left
dalek tracwiki: v1 | Yuki`N++ | ParrotHackList 00:15
tracwiki: Initial script (first revision) output.
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ParrotH...ction=diff
dukeleto cotto_work: hola 00:16
NotFound Parrot_set_config_hash now takes an iterpreter as argument? The we can hardly call it before creating an interpreter,
dukeleto cotto_work: i have some plumage tuits, if those are needed. I wrote the plumage test harness and a bunch of tests
nwellnhof the whole thing with the thawed config hash is completely braindead anyway. 00:17
NotFound This is fuckingly wrong. If we shoud use Parrot_set_config_hash from several places it *must* be in a header file. We have header files for something. 00:18
dukeleto nwellnhof: i agree
whiteknight NotFound: Parrot_set_config_hash is defined in src/parrot_config.c, which is a generated file and is not included in libparrot 00:19
NotFound nwellnhof: agreed, but while we are using it, it should be used is a reasonable way.
whiteknight: anyway. Is used, and is linked.
dukeleto reads #ps from today 00:20
whiteknight NotFound: I'll fix this now, we can put together a header file for it if you want 00:21
00:23 silug left
NotFound The other problems seem to be fixable by including parrot/embed.h 00:24
whiteknight: I think that if embedders may need to call it, it should be in embed.h 00:25
Yuki`N to all who are interested, comments on format revision 2 are welcome. trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ParrotHackList
NotFound (and if embedders will never need to use it, should be killed) 00:26
whiteknight NotFound: parrot/embed.h is the old API, we're going to deprecate it. parrot_debugger uses the old style and will get updated soon
dukeleto cotto_work: i plan to automate your GOAL 6
NotFound In api.h then
whiteknight I'm putting together a temporary fix now, I'll have to do the complete update this weekend
dukeleto cotto_work: manually doing it is setting ourselves up for failure
cotto_work dukeleto: that's exactly what I'm hoping for. 00:27
whiteknight NotFound: yes, api.h should include all functions an embedder needs
dukeleto cotto_work: we will use the GCC compile farm to run tests across all HLLs we care about
cotto_work do it manually as a stopgap until it can be automated through plumage
dukeleto cotto_work: post-commit hooks will run tests suites across various parrots with different configure options
cotto_work: i don't need plumage to do it 00:28
there is also parrothandler
cotto_work even better
dukeleto but i have a homebrew solution anyway
i think parrothandler will make it even easier
NotFound whiteknight: but if the plan is to get rid of the need for the config object file, will be better to get api.h free from it. 00:29
whiteknight NotFound: I don't understand what you mean. The config object file is fine. We don't need to get rid of it
dukeleto cotto_work: what is the simplest useful config for running HLL tests? Just running a Rakudo spectest?
cotto_work Yuki`N: the last link doesn't work
Yuki`N: it's looking at a generated file 00:30
dukeleto github.com/brianwisti/parrot-handler
Yuki`N cotto, oh. 00:31
My fault for not cleaning first then.
NotFound whiteknight: then, fine
dukeleto plobsing: ping 00:32
plobsing: i would like to talk more about the Complex PMC
NotFound dukeleto: using plumage to load and test HLL is a way to keep plumage well tested. 00:35
cotto_work Yuki`N: you might add a warning to the inline POD (or just bail if you find Makefile)
Yuki`N Oh ok. 00:36
dukeleto NotFound: that is true
NotFound: so we should make the compile farm run plumage tests and installs? That can be done. 00:37
NotFound dukeleto: and keeping its plumage updated, of course. 00:38
dalek tracwiki: v2 | Yuki`N++ | ParrotHackList
tracwiki: Revision 2
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ParrotH...ction=diff
tracwiki: v3 | Yuki`N++ | ParrotHackList
tracwiki: Revision 3, change fonts.
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ParrotH...ction=diff
Yuki`N Ok, so I'm ready to submit a pull request.
socghop.appspot.com/gci/task/show/g...9315727394 here's the task 00:39
dukeleto Yuki`N: i will look
NotFound Talking about keeping updated...
Yuki`N Actually, my source tree is rather unclean for some reason.
I'll submit a patch.
dukeleto Yuki`N: ok 00:40
Yuki`N If you could accept the task, I will upload a tar.
00:41 cognominal joined
whiteknight I didn't realize that the runcore selection mechanism uses a string internally 00:42
dukeleto Yuki`N: no tar uploads
Yuki`N Really?
Hm.
whiteknight There's no reason why the embed API should take a string, turn it into a flag, then turn that back into a string, and pass that into the runcore selector
dukeleto Yuki`N: you have just a single file, no?
Yuki`N True.
dukeleto Yuki`N: i just think a tar is unnecessary
Yuki`N I was going to upload patches.
dukeleto Yuki`N: just give a link to the new file
Yuki`N Ok. 00:43
dukeleto Yuki`N: it will probably live in tools/dev or something
Yuki`N: make sure it looks like other stuff in tools/dev, with POD and an example of how to use it
Yuki`N Way ahead of you.
github.com/nol888/parrot/blob/mast...ndhacks.pl
dukeleto Yuki`N: glad to hear :)
Yuki`N: accepted 00:44
Yuki`N Submitted. 00:45
dalek nxed: r725 | NotFound++ | trunk/ (3 files):
update installable files
Yuki`N dukeleto, can you take care of removing socghop.appspot.com/gci/task/show/g...9315789586 since it's already done by someone. 00:46
NotFound winxed installed from plumage works fine again
Yuki`N >So he's going to get another 60 points. 00:47
Fuck jumpyshoes.
I give up.
cotto_work ?
Yuki`N He's apparently done 60 points worth of tasks
And is going to get those 60 points in the next 30 or so minutes.
whiteknight Yuki`N: how do you know that? 00:48
Yuki`N groups.google.com/d/msg/gci-discus...dJamlNSFsJ
That's ridiculous.
dukeleto yep, i just read it too 00:49
NotFound www.parrot.org and trac.parrot.org looks nice in a Toshiba Folio 100 :)
dukeleto they are batching tasks.
Yuki`N I do not believe sincerely that 15 "difficult" tasks can be completed in about 3 days.
dukeleto Yuki`N: the definition of "difficult" needs to be more well-defined, i agree
Yuki`N And at this point he is just mining points.
dukeleto Yuki`N: but i also doubt that contest rules will be changed mid-way. Things will be different next year, though. 00:50
Yuki`N While the rest of us have to actually work to find that many tasks.
Never mind complete them.
dukeleto Yuki`N: as long as you stay in the top 10, i wouldn't worry too much. Ignore those shenanigans and just continue to do good work (as you have done)
Kapace_ I don't think jumpyshoes is the only one 00:51
dukeleto plans to do a task dump soon. Needs to make some jet fuel
Yuki`N I just think it's unjust for rfw to get first stolen from him.
Kapace_ I know someone who has done like 16 dutch translation tasks
I can't keep up
Yuki`N Yes, but see translation tasks are usually rated at 1 or 2 points.
Kapace_ no but these are all 4 points
Yuki`N Well that's the same concept, only jumpyshoes has done it on a much larger scale.
Kapace_ www.google-melange.com/gci/student_...ureianimus
yeah 00:52
rfw oh god apertium
Yuki`N People are comparing asm functions in lines of code to other hll's.
NotFound "I would just like to point out two one-liners socghop.appspot.com/gci/task/show/g...9152150430 and socghop.appspot.com/gci/task/show/g...9152118642 , against a 879-line"
rfw NotFound: it's fun to note that the 879-line diff was for multiple functions
Yuki`N Just those arguments alone are just completely bs.
whiteknight the problem is that porting a C function to assembly is hard, if you don't know how to tell a compiler to do it for you
NotFound This is wrong. The number of lines has nothing to do with the amount of work or its quality.
Kapace_ NotFound: i agree 00:53
theres a quote:
NotFound I'll obviously prefer a *right* one line fix than a big diff.
Kapace_ "measuring progress by lines of code is like measuring aircraft progress by weight" or somelike like that
Yuki`N whiteknight, that would be the case, however, many of the asm functions that need to be written have already-written analogues.
NotFound Kapace_: yeah, I know it
Yuki`N And most of the algorithms are the same, the only things that differ are data size or small factors. 00:54
whiteknight Yuki'N: Creating a "listing file" of assembly from C code is trivialy easy
I think it's gcc -s
NotFound In fact, I've done in parrot several one line fixes of difficult bugs.
Yuki`N Yeah, these are written to use SIMD functions. 00:55
whiteknight combine that with gcc -s -o2, and suddenly you're producing optimized assembly files for any architecture in less than 10 seconds
Yuki`N: right, -o2 will produce those in some cases
00:55 smash left
whiteknight he could hand-tune a few places to make it look better, but the hard work can all be done by computer 00:55
Yuki`N x264 assembly has a lot of macros that make writing the equivalent asm version of a c function easier. 00:56
Yeah that is true.
The hardest part imo is determining what the c function is trying to do.
And Dark_Shikari gives a lot of assistance.
The problem that I see is that that task type has a learning curve, but after you go over that it is no longer "difficult." 00:57
NotFound And BTW I don't think the number of lines of complaints against the rules of the contest qualify for anything ;)
Yuki`N Again, it's a problem with the rules and the definitions put forth by google.
NotFound, :P
whiteknight Yuki`N: it's not really a problem with google. If jumpyshoes can do a million and one tasks, they shouldn't be listed as difficult 00:58
rfw i've given up on trying to catch up to him
00:58 kid51 joined
rfw i think i'll do fuck all for the rest of gci 00:58
whiteknight if they are easy and fast to do, you shouldn't be listed as difficult 00:59
that's a problem of the mentoring organization, not google
dukeleto rfw: i think you shouldn't be discouraged by jumpyshoes
rfw: google will sort things out, i know the people who run GCI and they are very fair
rfw i hope so
NotFound Also, you are learning a hard lesson: programming merits aren't always appreciated with justice.
dukeleto rfw: if they see that someone gamed the system, they will even things out somehow 01:00
kid51 rfw: Parrot will repay you in beer ... when you're old enough!
rfw kid51: :D
dukeleto: i'd still be happy to do anything for parrot if you want
NotFound But seriously: we appreciate your work.
dukeleto rfw: awesome! i know we don't have lots of tasks right now, but I am thinking some up
rfw dukeleto: ah cool
dukeleto rfw: i would like some documentation to get written for PL/Parrot
rfw: check out pl.parrot.org
Yuki`N :P
I will also help out.
kid51 rfw: We'll dispatch our New Zealand emissary to thank you!
rfw kid51: haha 01:01
dukeleto: i have some stuff to follow up for gluon first, though
dukeleto rfw: we only have a tiny bit of docs. I want a nice manual of examples for how to write various kinds of functions in PIR and Perl6
Yuki`N I like this project more than any of the others so far, I can say that. :P
NotFound parrots fly everywhere!
dukeleto rfw: no worries
Yuki`N: you want to work on PL/Parrot docs?
Yuki`N Documentation isn't my strong point as I'm not a good writer but if I see some I can help out with then I will. 01:02
dukeleto Yuki`N: it would mostly be reading the tests of PL/Parrot to see how it works, then writing docs and examples
Yuki`N I remember rfw's first parrot tasks were some extensions to the linear algebra module
rfw tests, actually
those were fun :D
dukeleto Yuki`N: you can basically use the tests in the docs, just add a bit of explanation to them
Yuki`N Hm, there were some tasks to do domething like add different types of matrices though.
Ah, that's nice. 01:03
dukeleto rfw: have you ever played with GSL ?
rfw ah, nope
Yuki`N Seeing as I wrote a good amount of the tests. :P
dukeleto i want to have GSL bindings to parrot
rfw hm i'd have to brush up a lot on my c
whiteknight Yuki`N, rfw: are either of you getting old enough for university?
rfw whiteknight: probaboy going next year
test results pending
whiteknight because I think you guys would make great GSoC students if you want to do that 01:04
and we have many bigger, funner projects for that
NotFound whiteknight: Are you plannig to create a Pafo University? ;)
rfw whiteknight: i think you mean old enough for gsoc
since gsoc has the 18 age restriction
you can be <18 and in university :p 01:05
rfw is probably going to still be 16 for the first month in university
kid51 Yes, but you probably have to be >= 18 to sign a CLA to get a Parrot commit bit
:-(
rfw :(
dukeleto Yuki`N: i don't have much time to make tasks in a near future, but i can tell you to work on something and them make a task later :) 01:06
Yuki`N: do you want to write docs for PL/Parrot ?
Yuki`N Ah/
whiteknight kid51: that's not a problem anymore. A GSoC student can do all their work in a fork
Yuki`N whiteknight, I'm in junior year.
NotFound kid51: I think a signed autorization from parents or legal tutors qualifies.
dukeleto Yuki`N: there is a pl/parrot repo on github
Yuki`N: github.com/leto/plparrot
rfw Yuki`N: high school junior? i thought you were older than me
Yuki`N I also have a part-time job as a developer at a local university. 01:07
Nope.
HS junior.
kid51 NotFound: Glad to know that!
rfw when's your birthday again
Yuki`N august
I'm 16.
rfw what year
dukeleto Yuki`N: the task is to improve the documentation of PL/Parrot in any way you see fit. Spend a day or two on it, and report back. I will make a task soon 01:08
kid51 Coke: ping
dukeleto Yuki`N: i would like better html docs on the site
NotFound feeling really old
dukeleto Yuki`N: the PL/Parrot website lives in the html/ dir of the repo
Yuki`N I see.
rfw, 1994
I'm 16.
You can do math. :(
rfw Yuki`N: oh my brain switched itself off
after reading all the google groups posts
i'm probably still shorter though 01:09
dukeleto Yuki`N: i would like to see different docs for different types of users, i.e docs for DBA's on how to install/maintain it, and docs for end users who are writing stored procedures
rfw: what kind of parrot tasks are you interested in?
rfw dukeleto: i don't know :D
kid51 What file is it that has all the documentation about different 'make' targets?
Yuki`N fffff
dukeleto rfw: i need help setting up a continuous integration system for Parrot on our compile farm
Yuki`N firefox crashed while I was writing a mailing list response. 01:10
rfw Yuki`N: LOL
dukeleto rfw: i have some pieces of the puzzle but they need to be glued together properly
Yuki`N I would prefer code over documentation but I suppose I can take either.
rfw dukeleto: ah okay
Yuki`N `-`
rfw dukeleto: i've never had the hardware to set up a CI farm, heh 01:11
Yuki`N Damnit.
xchat cleared my clipboard.
dukeleto rfw: we need to test parrot master and selected branches on various versions of perl and run HLL tests, such as the Rakudo spectest and the plumage test suite
rfw: we have access to the GCC compile farm
rfw: we can run parrot tests on a playstation 3!
rfw haha
when's the first game written in pir coming out ;)
dukeleto rfw: we need a nice web interface to it, that is what i need help with. A mostly static interface, but we could use javascript to make it more interactive and pretty 01:12
rfw ah
i don't have to write it in perl do i
dukeleto rfw: i think whiteknight is planning on rewriting SimCity in PIR ...
rfw awesome
Kapace_ what is continuous integration?
dukeleto Kapace_: continually running tests on every commit
rfw Kapace_: it's when you continually rebuild new revisions of software
NotFound dukeleto: Sin City?
Kapace_ oh 01:13
rfw Yuki`N: rep says he would have lunch with us
dukeleto rfw: basically, i will give you a datastructure, just as a directory of JSON files or YAML files, and you need to generate a static site that shows off the data, graphs the performance of stuff against each other, etc.
rfw dukeleto: ah
dukeleto: funny, i did the other end (generating data etc.) for x264 01:14
dukeleto rfw: it could be written in any language, which would you prefer?
rfw python :D
dukeleto rfw: you could help with that end as well
rfw: that is fine with me, i don't care about the language
Yuki`N rfw, fuck yes.
Haha, ps3 testing.
rfw dukeleto: what CI platform are you using 01:15
dukeleto last time i ran the parrot test suite on a PS3, it went into an infinite loop, but "make coretest" passed ;)
NotFound dukeleto: if you have the data in json files, make that files addresable from HTTP
Yuki`N I can help out with this CI testing if you're willing to let me help as well.
dukeleto rfw: bash and for loops ;)
rfw dukeleto: oh dear
dukeleto NotFound: yes, good idea
rfw dukeleto: that's just exact same thing dark_shikari was doing with x264
s/just/the/
how did that get in there
dukeleto rfw: we can use buildbot or something else, but i want the simplest possible infrastructure
rfw: i am thinking of just using git hooks 01:16
rfw ah
so, build -> run tests
dukeleto rfw: we will have a cron job that keeps all git repos of parrot and all HLLs up-to-date
NotFound dukeleto: then we can download aand process them with parrot tools, in addition to web usages.
dukeleto rfw: yep
rfw awesome
NotFound likes eating our own dogfood 01:17
dukeleto rfw: then we have git hooks that submit jobs or something that say "generate data for sha1 deadcoffee of parrot.git"
rfw ah
dukeleto rfw: and that can then be turned into "test all HLLs with the newest parrot.git sha1" 01:18
dalek rrot: f9fdda1 | Whiteknight++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
make headerizer fails if we haven't made src/extend_vtable.c first. So, build it first
rrot: c5d71e3 | Whiteknight++ | / (4 files):
Fix the g++ build. Add a new function to src/embed.c to handle legacy-style setting the config hash by byte array instead of PMC. Add some new functions to the output of parrot_config_c.pl to help aide legacy support without needing those generated files to include more header files
dukeleto rfw: and then we have a web interface to all that data, as well as some email notifications if Bad Things Happen
Yuki`N pastebin.com/5SVLHndr rfw read please
rfw aha, got it
dukeleto who needs gci tasks right now?
we need to increase test coverage of the MappedByteArray PMC, it is like 7% right now
that is at least 2 tasks to get it up to 100%
rfw Yuki`N: lol that quote 01:19
dukeleto that is another task y'all can work on
Yuki`N rfw, yes.
dukeleto throws tasks into the GCI snake pit
Yuki`N haha
rfw Yuki`N: looks good to me
Yuki`N rfw, if you don't mind I'm interested in that CI testing as well.
rfw Yuki`N: sure
Yuki`N Perhaps we can work on it together.
I need to perfect my python anyway.
rfw i'm not going to do it as part of gci though
since i've sort of slipped into apathy mode about gci
Yuki`N Think like Jumpyshoes 01:20
I'll do some work.
dukeleto rfw: just do some fun tasks that you enjoy
Yuki`N Then claim credit en masse later.
dukeleto Yuki`N: that is a good way to look at it
rfw Yuki`N: lolol
dukeleto: there aren't any more :(
Yuki`N The point imo is to have fun and also get recognition.
dukeleto rfw: i am telling you tasks right now :) I just don't have them in the system right now 01:21
Yuki`N However jumpyshoes is bastardizing it, lol.
kid51 listens to the "Bach and Bluegrass" segment of WKCR's Bach festival (wkcr.org)
rfw dukeleto: heh, if you insist
dukeleto: also you should give Yuki`N +o
dukeleto rfw: there is PL/Parrot, MappedByteArray, continuous integration. which do you want to hack on?
Yuki`N Posted to gci-discuss.
rfw CI please
Yuki`N aloha, coverage? 01:22
aloha Yuki`N: coverage is cv.perl6.cz or tapir2.ro.vutbr.cz/cover/cover-results/
whiteknight cotto: ping
NotFound whiteknight: the problem with that config approach is that the functions are not decorated, so tou can't link a C++ embed with a C built parrot or viceversa
dukeleto rfw: ok. assume that you have a directory which has every parrot release pre-compiled in a directory, as well as at least 1 copy of the parrot git repo
Yuki`N MappedByteArray is riddled with C preprocessor statements.
Testing all branches is going to be a pain.
whiteknight NotFound: what functions?
Yuki`N And perhaps impossible, in one run.
rfw dukeleto: why not integrate it directly with git 01:23
dukeleto Yuki`N: yeah, it will be fun :) we don't need all branches, just some important ones
NotFound whiteknight: Parrot_get_config_hash_bytes et al
dukeleto rfw: sure
whiteknight NotFound: those are just temporary
dukeleto rfw: that is fine, but i like having a directory for releases, because i want to do benchmarking across them
rfw dukeleto: ah
dukeleto rfw: but just the git repo is fine too
cotto_work whiteknight: pong
NotFound whiteknight: there are temporary hacks in parrot that last for years
rfw dukeleto: can Yuki`N work on it with me 01:24
dukeleto rfw: do you want to research what the best solution for us is? I am not quite sure
whiteknight cotto_work: TT #1910. I want to review that old embedding API
rfw dukeleto: i'm not quite sure either
whiteknight NotFound: I'm very motivated to see this issue be resolved
dukeleto rfw: yes, you and Yuki`N can work on it. I will create a task for each of you that is a different part of this
rfw i'm not very clear on CI
Yuki`N dukeleto, I just realized that I'm going to need a file to map. What is the working directory for tests as they're normally run
rfw i understand the rationale behind it but
dukeleto rfw: ok, take a look at jitterbug on github 01:25
rfw as for proposing actual solutions i'm at a loss
A just-in-time image creator for pretty text headers ā€” Read more?
NotFound whiteknight: Glad to know, but IMO in the meantime having a declaration in a header will not harm.
rfw oh, small smoker for Perl projects hosted on github
dukeleto Yuki`N: tests are run from the root of the checkout. you can put test data files in the same directory as the test
rfw: we need to test that parrot works with various versions of perl, so jitterbug does a lot that we want
whiteknight NotFound: if you want a header, that's fine. This works without one and I think that's fine for now
Yuki`N Ah.
So I'd have to go t/pmc/mappedbytearray.t 01:26
rfw dukeleto: oh, so over various versions of perl too?
dukeleto anch)
rfw: we want to make sure Parrot works with perl 5.8.x, 5.10.x, 5.12.x and probably blead (perl 5's master branch)
rfw: yes
rfw ah, got it
dukeleto rfw: we can start out with one version of perl, but the solution needs to scale to multiple versions
rfw sure 01:27
dukeleto rfw: on the gcc farm, we have access to every version of gcc every known to man, pre-compiled
rfw awesome
dukeleto rfw: so we can go hog-wild with those as well, but probably just testing a few gcc versions is sufficient
rfw i'll probably need to brainstorm an architecture with Yuki`N though
dukeleto rfw: i need you and Yuki`N to come up with the architecture
Yuki`N lol
BRAIN BLAST. 01:28
rfw lol that was fun timing
Yuki`N I'm looking at MappedByteArray in the meantime.
NotFound For extra points, you can try to build with any supported perl version built with any gcc version supported by perl ;)
Yuki`N Testing is actually not going to be as difficult as I thought.
dukeleto rfw: yes, do that. brainstorm with Yuki`N and get back to me. Do some research and see what will give use something useful soon and be scalable in the future to do what we need
Yuki`N: awesome!
rfw Yuki`N: we will call it squawk, y/y
Yuki`N yes.
parrot squawk 01:29
dukeleto rfw: there is already a langague called "squaak", the example parrot language
NotFound Yuki`N: I wrote MappedByteArray, feel free to ask any doubt.
Yuki`N I will.
I think I don't have much time today however.
rfw dukeleto: is there anything called plumage
Yuki`N Yes.
dukeleto rfw: yes
rfw oh wow
Yuki`N It's some package management or optional feature thingy.
dukeleto rfw: it is kind of like the CPAN toolchain but for Parrot 01:30
Yuki`N From what I can gather.
rfw running out of parrot/bid-related words again
Yuki`N Polly's a parrot-related name.
NotFound Yuki`N: if I'm not alive in the channel, email to the parrot list
dukeleto rfw: what about teradactyl ?
Yuki`N But it's kinda :|
rfw dukeleto: that's not exactly a parrot, lol
Yuki`N NotFound, will do.
dukeleto rfw: is is the grandpa of a parrot ;)
s/is is/it is/
kid51 aloha, plumage?
aloha kid51: plumage is a package manager for Parrot
dukeleto rfw, Yuki`N, Kapace_ : you are all doing a fantastic job in GCI. Keep it up! 01:31
rfw why is every parrot release name by whiteknight in lolspeak
dukeleto goes back into the shadows for a few hours
NotFound aloha: plumage is also github.com/parrot/plumage
aloha NotFound: Okay.
NotFound aloha: plumage? 01:32
aloha NotFound: plumage is a package manager for Parrot or github.com/parrot/plumage
Yuki`N Because it's whiteknight.
rfw oh, of course
Yuki`N aloha's pretty cool, who wrote it?
rfw is there anything called kea 01:33
i know there's a kakapo
Kea: Factor on the Parrot Virtual Machine
why do you do this to me ;__;
Yuki`N How about Macaw. 01:34
cotto_work Yuki`N: aloha is bacek's project, though I think it's pretty close to stock
Yuki`N Ah. 01:35
dalek rrot: fc913cc | dukeleto++ | tools/dev/findhacks.pl:
[tools] Script which generates a trac wiki page of hacky files, Yuki`N++
rfw Yuki`N:bpa / Macaw Parrot browser plugin
:(
Yuki`N damnit
rfw what about cockatoo
dalek TT #1910 created by whiteknight++: Review and Dissolve old embedding API
TT #1910: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1910
kid51 OSU OSL will be doing some maintenance work around 2100 PST today. Anything Trac-related may be affected. 01:36
Yuki`N Toucan?
rfw ooh, that's free
toucan it is
Kapace_ thanks dukeleto :) 01:37
kid51 Do we have anyone who can do a presentation about Parrot in Italian? 01:38
davidfetter how much prep might they get? 01:40
01:40 nwellnhof left
rfw actually Yuki`N 01:41
what about darter
The darters or snakebirds are mainly tropical waterbirds
hurr >snakebird
davidfetter wonders what hurr is overwriting snakebird with, and realizes he needs to be outdoors more 01:42
rfw davidfetter: hah 01:43
cotto_work rfw: there's no reason you have to use a real parrot.
rfw cotto_work: as opposed to a fake parrot? 01:44
davidfetter are we running out of real parrots to name the releases for? :)
cotto_work imaginary parrot
Kapace_ virtual parrot
rfw the square root of a negative parrot? 01:45
01:47 Nol888 joined
Nol888 So VMWare Workstation just took a dump on my computer. 01:47
rfw Nol888: yeah virtualbox does that to me too
Nol888 I was playing l4d2 and suddenly all my usb devices disconnect.
My NIC's lights aren't on anymore. 01:48
rfw oh
Nol888 I have several segfault error messages.
cotto_work rfw: I'm thinking more like "European Attack Macaw"
rfw mine just dumps memory into the host
Nol888 And I can't do a thing because my keyboard/mouse are usb.
rfw cotto_work: "Super Awesome Killer Parrot From Outer Space"?
Nol888 It's horrible.
01:49 Yuki`N left, Nol888 is now known as Yuki`N
NotFound Zombie Ninja Mutant Parrots 01:50
Kapace_ Yuki`N: you were playing games on a vm? 01:51
Yuki`N No, I was running a vm at the time.
Kapace_ oh 01:52
davidfetter o/` teenage mutant ninja parrots o/`
Kapace_ I think the names are rapidly moving away from parrots and more into epic movies
NotFound The amazing parrotman 01:53
01:53 kid51 is now known as kid51_at_dinner
NotFound Epic? Parrot the barbarian? 01:53
rfw could someone in the parrot organization on github create a "darter" repo and give me and Yuki`N access to it 01:54
whiteknight Every time I do a release, I ask my wife for an idea about what to name it. Every time, without fail, she suggests "Dana" 01:55
...so I pick a random name instead
rfw lolol
whiteknight For 2.11 I was seriously thinking about "blue crown"
rfw how did that become at the roflbbq 01:56
whiteknight I don't know. I was thinking about names, then I accidentally went to 4chan for a while, and when I came back everything was rofl something
rfw why would you go to 4chan while naming a parrot release
at least you didn't call it PUDDI PUDDI 01:57
whiteknight I'm not the best at time management
Kapace_ so I'm working on the embed/api.c test gist.github.com/758046 01:59
trying to test Parrot_api_set_stdhandles... I can make the interpreter 02:00
and the call works, but I don't know how to get the interpreter to run some pir... 02:01
whiteknight Kapace_: That's a good question
Kapace_: Comment that function out. We don't use it yet and it's not really testable 02:03
at least not yet, not without more work
Kapace_ hmm, ok 02:04
whiteknight We probably need a function to get the standard IO handles. Maybe that will become a new task, so don't throw away your test code yet
Kapace_ right, just commented it out for no
whiteknight I may want to modify that set_handles function too, since I don't know if I like it as it is
Kapace_ *now 02:05
whiteknight Kapace_: okay, that's good.
This is good, testing helps to identify weak areas in the code
Kapace_: I'm heading to bed now. I'll take a look at whatever you have in the morning 02:06
02:06 davidfetter left
Kapace_ whiteknight: ok, good night 02:06
whiteknight goodnight
02:06 whiteknight left 02:21 x19290 joined
x19290 Hello. 02:21
sorear Hi. 02:22
x19290 I tried to create my trac.parrot.org account and clicked the "Register" link.
And got trac.parrot.org/parrot/parrot/register Not Found error. 02:23
What's wrong?
rfw x19290: i think you mean trac.parrot.org/parrot/register
;)
x19290 Oh! it works. 02:24
rfw Yuki`N: did you run away ćƒ½(Ā“ļ½°ļ½€)ļ¾‰ 02:26
02:28 lidden left 02:30 silug joined
x19290 I found "New Ticket." Thanks. 02:30
Yuki`N rfw, yes 02:31
I did.
rfw Yuki`N: :<
bacek_at_work aloha, humans
aloha, aloha?
aloha bacek_at_work: I have no idea.
bacek_at_work aloha, aloha is simple Bot::BasicBot::Pluggable hosted on github.com/bacek/aloha 02:32
aloha bacek_at_work: Okay.
cotto_work aloha, bacek_at_work
bacek_at_work aloha, cotto_work :)
rfw Yuki`N: darter would have to be centralized, wouldn't it 02:33
Yuki`N Well, I suppose.
The setup only exists on one machine. 02:34
rfw well
what
it runs on the gcc compile farm, so you would have multiple nodes
Yuki`N Oh true. 02:38
Some client-server interaction going on.
rfw but then wyou would have a single point of failure
Yuki`N That is true. 02:39
rfw alternatively you could send it to any given node and let it propogate
Yuki`N That is true.
P2P for the win I suppose.
rfw but that could get messy
Yuki`N Decentralized is always cooler though.
rfw since that decentralized node would act is a temporary hub
s/is/as/ 02:40
we should probably make a #darter :|
Yuki`N pfft this is parrot-related.
rfw heh 02:41
hm having a distributed architecture is messy though
Yuki`N Were we thinking about integrating with git?
rfw i think so
but that's not too complicated
just have every node periodically pull
but yeah Yuki`N a centralized server would be easier to aggregate data with 02:43
Yuki`N It would be.
Each server has a different set of tools set up on it, I take it?
rfw i'm not sure 02:44
i'd like to try that playstation one out :D
dalek TT #1911 created by x19290++: cannot read binary file stream
TT #1911: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1911
rfw oh Yuki`N 02:45
GCC release sources and misc tarballs are under /opt/cfarm/ftp/ (writable for everyone if you wish to add something)
GCC release binaries for the default languages plus Ada are available under /opt/cfarm/release/X.Y.Z/bin (to be put in your PATH 4.3.3 is available on most CFARM machines)
ada, what
Yuki`N loool.
sorear rfw: you've never heard of Ada? 02:46
rfw sorear: i have but why
why do they have ada :|
cotto_work takes off 02:47
sorear rfw: why not? it's a major language and gcc supports it 02:48
rfw is it? i've never seen it used much
sorear it's not used much *today*
Ada was the Pentagon's sweetheart for some years a while back and a lot of existing code uses it 02:49
rfw ah 02:50
sorear en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_(programm...e)#History 02:51
rfw oh 02:54
02:57 x19290 left
rfw Yuki`N: would it be appropriate for nodes to store the tests or for the hub to dispatch them 03:05
03:12 contingencyplan left
Yuki`N What do you mean? 03:12
rfw as in 03:13
should the tests be marshalled and transferred to the leaf nodes
or should each leaf node have that test stored
Yuki`N rfw, well the tests might be stored on a central server and maybe the leaf nodes can retrieve. 03:15
If tests get outdated, etc.
rfw hm
or should they be marshalled every time?
Coke 22:13 < [Coke]> email does work.
22:15 < [Coke]> You can open a new parrot ticket by emailing tickets at parrot.org
kid51_at_dinner: pong. 03:16
dalek TT #1912 created by coke++: Test 2 03:17
TT #1912: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1912
03:19 kid51_at_dinner is now known as kid51
kid51 coke: I subsequently posted to trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1908 03:20
03:20 fbrito1 is now known as fbrito
Coke I just reposted. it's in the docs for perlcritic.t 03:21
kid51 Aha! But I wonder if there is a way to get that into 'make help'? 'cause that's where I would have thought to look for it 03:24
Coke I don't see the need, but knock yourself out.
(I'd be happy to only ever run that test during fulltest, it's a pig)
kid51 Well, at least I can incorporate that syntax into 'make moretests' (or whatever we'll end up calling it) 03:25
Alright, let me start a branch for that and then head out
Coke Yuki`N: as long as you have privs, you should re-run faces.pl and upload it. 03:28
kid51 Hmm ... looks like bot nopaste has gone missing
pastebin.com/RX35MU9h 03:32
dalek TT #1912 closed by coke++: Test 2 03:34
TT #1912: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1912
TT #1909 closed by coke++: g++ build broken
TT #1909: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1909
03:41 Matt_ left
kid51 Yuki`N: ping 03:43
Yuki`N Coke, faces?
kid51, pong 03:44
kid51 Yuki`N: See trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/552
Yuki`N yes, that's the one I wrote a script for.
kid51 Can you post in that ticket the extent to which tools/dev/findhacks.pl addresses the issues raised there?
Yuki`N Ok.
kid51 dukeleto: By accident, I assigned you this ticket: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/552#comment:5 03:46
But if you want to assign it back, feel free. 03:47
03:49 kennym left
Coke Yuki`N: tools/*/*faces*.pl 03:50
or ParrotFaces on the wiki.
kid51 must sleep
Yuki`N Coke, ok. 03:51
fbrito kid51: good night
dalek rrot: 067bf3a | Coke++ | / (14 files):
remove init::headers config step

hardcode include directory here instead of config step. Removing NONGEN headers entirely still passes checkdepend.t and the build works at a high -j.		 03:53
rrot: a32e328 | Coke++ | t/src/checkdepend.t:
Enable testing of src/pmc dependencies.
rrot: d3ca078 | Coke++ | config/ (2 files):
Avoid duplicate deps on PMCs; add minimum deps
rrot: b2b52b6 | Coke++ | config/auto/pmc.pm:
Minor fixups on calculated dependency paths.
rrot: 6d6911d | Coke++ | config/auto/pmc.pm:
every PMC has this as a dep.
rrot: d9b858c | Coke++ | config/ (2 files):
move PMC_H_FILES into the pmc dep generator.

add some more dynamic reqs.
  * down to 4 failures in checkdepend.pl
rrot: a71ab59 | Coke++ | config/auto/pmc.pm:
Track cases where our include includes.
rrot: dd03d3c | Coke++ | config/auto/pmc.pm:
Fix very old typo

and the pmc2c code were doing 2 different things.
  - checkdepend.t passes again (now with no .c skips)
rrot: c8161fc | Coke++ | config/auto/pmc.pm:
whitespace
rrot: f668f73 | Coke++ | t/codingstd/pccmethod_deps.t:
Fix same bug that was cut/pasted from auto::pmc

Add note about merging this dependency check into checkdepend.t
rrot: 5a71f25 | Coke++ | config/ (2 files):
Remove now-redundant .mak variable.
rrot: e12aa0f | Coke++ | frontend/parrot_debugger/main.c:
remove trailing whitespace.
fbrito wow
rrot: 0cc0d8e | Coke++ | src/embed.c:
add missing ASSERT_ARGS
rrot: 98cc69b | Coke++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
more includes? more dependencies.
rrot: 40569a6 | Coke++ | t/steps/auto/pmc-01.t:
"fix" steps test - METHOD, not PCCMETHOD
 04:04
04:05 fbrito left 04:08 kid51 left
Yuki`N Coke, no change. 04:09
dalek TT #1911 closed by plobsing++: cannot read binary file stream 04:24
TT #1911: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1911
04:24 frodwith left
dalek rrot: 84fb5d3 | mikehh++ | MANIFEST:
re-generate MANIFEST
 04:30
rrot: 58d6f87 | mikehh++ | tools/dev/findhacks.pl:
fix codetest failures

remove cuddled elses change platform-specific perl shebang line add perl coda
Coke Yuki`N: figured for sure some GCI students had been added to CREDITS, ah well. 04:31
Yuki`N Coke, I added myself, but for some reason I didn't see my gravatar. 04:39
You try to run it.
Coke you're on line 104. 04:40
Running in master? 04:41
dalek TT #1768 closed by coke++: Profiling runcore breaks Rakudo. 04:50
TT #1768: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1768
plobsing msg dukeleto, sorry I missed you. I'd like to assuage your concerns regarding Complex.pmc. Please comment on the TT or hit the list. 04:54
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
Yuki`N Coke, pretty sure. 05:13
bacek aloha, humans 05:23
seen cotto
aloha cotto was last seen in #parrot 21 hours 37 mins ago saying "are they all ok to merge without reviewing?".
Yuki`N Coke, never mind, I didn't paste properly apparently. 05:25
Updated.
cotto hi 05:27
bacek, did you need something?
bacek cotto, trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ParrotD...version=28 is it good enough? 05:28
cotto looking 05:29
I'd prefer to see a full notice. I can write the English part if you prefer. 05:31
thanks
Coke, thanks for catching #1768. It probably was a dupe of the "-Rprofiling breaks nqp-rx" ticket. 05:32
dukeleto ~~ 05:33
dukeleto is adding gci tasks
bacek cotto, basically it was part of immutable strings. Which was landed in 2.3 afair 05:34
dalek tracwiki: v6 | Yuki`N++ | ParrotFaces
tracwiki: rerun tools/dev/faces.pl
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ParrotF...ction=diff
tracwiki: v28 | bacek++ | ParrotDeprecations
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ParrotD...ction=diff
dukeleto Yuki`N: i just added some mappedbytearray tasks 05:35
05:35 rurban_ joined
dukeleto muses that parrot test coverage, in general, has skyrocketed since GCI started 05:36
05:37 rurban left 05:38 rurban_ is now known as rurban
cotto dukeleto++ 05:38
Yuki`N dukeleto, ah. 05:51
I'm going to sleep now though
05:52 Coke left
Kapace_ Yuki`N: mind if I take one? :P 06:26
If I need the MappedByteArray test to read a testfile, where should I put the file? 06:30
dukeleto Kapace_: same directory as the test 06:32
Kapace_ ok www.google-melange.com/gci/task/sho...9360088964 06:33
Yuki`N Kapace, Ok you take one, I'll complete your work. 06:35
Kapace_ Yuki`N: awesome :) 06:36
06:38 Yuki`N left
dukeleto melange is dragging along right now 06:41
Kapace_ ok, I have a pull request already open 06:42
dukeleto Kapace_: accepted
Kapace_ should I submit the same link?
or open new pull request? 06:43
dukeleto Kapace_: what is your question? 06:45
Kapace_ I have a pull request already open: github.com/parrot/parrot/pull/48
Should I create a new one for this task, or just reuse this one? 06:46
cotto Kapace_, I was just looking at that one trying to figure out if it got merged
dukeleto Kapace_: not sure, whichever makes the most sense. One pull request per task makes things simple 06:52
cotto: we need to work on our pull requests, having too many pending will increase the chance of merge conflicts 06:53
cotto: do you want to split them up and get them merged?
Kapace_ ok, hmm, maybe for this task I'll just keep it in this pull request, but next time I'll try to separate them
cotto I like one request per task. 06:54
I'm not a fan of github's pull request notificatoins 06:56
dukeleto cotto: what do you mean?
cotto: how it sends it out to everyone in the org?
cotto The notifications don't reflect whether the requests have been closed 06:57
dukeleto cotto: i ignore all notifications and just look at the pull requests for the parrot org
cotto that's probably a good way to go about it
dukeleto cotto: should the Object PMC be using Parrot_ext_call internally? 07:04
cotto: that seems odd to me
cotto dukeleto, good question 07:07
It strikes me as odd but plausible.
dukeleto cotto: eventhandler, object and class are the only PMCs that use Parrot_ext_call 07:08
cotto Object and Class are special, so they don't surprise me too much.
rfw bah, there's some work on the darter client/server architecture done 07:15
seems really quite crude though
Kapace where?
rfw #!/usr/bin/env python26
er
completely wrong paste
github.com/rofflwaffls/darter
dukeleto looks 07:16
rfw: i like your docs so far, good description of the architecture 07:17
rfw i need to add more pydoc to the actual classes and functions, though
i was prototyping this really quickly 07:18
dukeleto cotto: why do we have a OrderedHash PMC? Almost nothing seems to use it 07:19
cotto dukeleto, istr that it's needed for *ManagedStruct 07:20
dukeleto cotto: unmanagedstruct is the only thing that uses it 07:22
cotto: just seems a bit lonely
cotto One use is a lot more than zero. 07:24
dukeleto cotto: indeed 07:27
cotto: how do you feel about the Complex PMC ?
cotto: do you think it belongs in core?
cotto I don't see a compelling reason to keep it in core.
dukeleto is thinking about what else needs to get deprecated before 3.0
cotto: but where should it live? 07:28
cotto: i don't think parrot-linear-algebra is the right place
cotto shot down before I could finish typing my reply
dukeleto cotto: parrot-data-structures could work, but that would need to get more love
cotto: i don't want to see the complex pmc leave core and then go unmaintained and broken 07:29
cotto: if there are bugs in it now, i will fix them
cotto If we get automated testing via plumage working, it won't be a problem to get external projects regular automated lov^H^H^Htesting.
dukeleto cotto: but i understand that it is at the boundary of what should be in core and what should be optional
NotFound A first step may be moving it to dynpmc
dukeleto NotFound: i was thinking that too 07:30
cotto dukeleto, do you happen to know if/how Rakudo uses it?
dalek rrot: 45282e1 | NotFound++ | frontend/parrot_debugger/main.c:
delete a TODO comment outdated since long time
dukeleto cotto: rakudo rolls their own 07:32
cotto ok 07:34
dukeleto cotto: Pointer PMC has 23% code coverage. Do people actually use it? 07:38
cotto: oh, i see.
cotto: is is a base class which things override
dukeleto is on a gci task rampage 07:40
Kapace_ yay, parrot tasks! :) 07:42
dukeleto Kapace_: take a look, i just added a half dozen and will be adding another half dozen in a few minutes 07:43
Kapace_ I'm looking, can't wait until I can claim the next one 07:45
dukeleto Kapace_: if you wait a few more minutes, you will have a bigger selection :) 07:50
Kapace_ right, but first I need my current task closed: www.google-melange.com/gci/task/sho...8964#c2002 07:53
cotto I'll review that unless dukeleto's already on it. 07:54
Kapace_, there's a lot of extra stuff in that pull request. In the future, please keep separate work separate. 07:55
Kapace_ cotto: right, I will try to do that
cotto thanks 07:56
dukeleto Kapace_: yeah, pull requests should not mix tasks 07:57
Kapace_: if you keep the master branch in your fork the same as the master in parrot.git, and make branches from it for each task, that is one way you can do that 07:58
Kapace_ I wasn't sure how to make a new pull request with just the last commit.
ah, perfect Ill do that
dalek rrot: 2b4c364 | cotto++ | tools/dev/findhacks.pl:
color "hack" red in findhacks output
 07:59
dukeleto NotFound: what was your question about "git targets and old git versions" in #ps ? i don't quite get it 08:01
NotFound dukeleto: It was in machine at payjob and I forgot to take note, I'll file a ticket when I can. 08:04
dukeleto NotFound: you had issues with using git 1.5.x or something like that? 08:05
NotFound An outdated version of git failed to run a command while installing a git project, that's all I remember. 08:06
I think it was an ubuntu 8.04 08:07
dukeleto Kapace_: ok, lots more tasks for you to choose from
Kapace_ dukeleto: thanks :) 08:08
Capture pmc sounds interesting
08:09 fperrad joined 08:13 bacek left 08:14 theory left
cotto dukeleto, what's the git equivalent of svnclobber? 08:17
rfw cotto: rm -rf *; git checkout -f HEAD? 08:29
make sure not to accidentally delete .git, heh
sorear rfw: I think you mean git reset --hard HEAD; git clean -dfx 08:30
rfw sorear: oh, is that the proper way 08:31
dalek rrot: 7dc6d62 | kapace++ | t/pmc/ (2 files):
Added file read test to MappedByteArray, increases coverage to 48%

Signed-off-by: Christoph Otto <christoph_git@mksig.org>
rfw yeah i knew i was probably telling a lie :|
cotto Kapace_, I closed your pull request. If you want anything else to get into master, make a separate request for it. 08:32
Kapace_ :) ok, well thats it for today, good night everyone, and thanks for your help!
cotto thanks for the improved test coverage
Kapace_ ok, np, night, kthxbai 08:33
cotto 'night
dukeleto rfw: what is svnclobber supposed to do again? 08:43
rfw dukeleto: apparently delete all files that aren't committed to svn
dukeleto rfw: git clean -fdx 08:45
dalek rrot: a72b588 | (Tony Young)++ | t/pmc/continuation.t:
Increased coverage of Continuation PMC to 86.60%.

Signed-off-by: Christoph Otto <christoph_git@mksig.org>
rfw yeah i should really do that from now on
dukeleto rfw: make realclean
rfw and i should really change my name on github to rfw
dukeleto rfw: i like rofflwaffls :) 08:46
rfw dukeleto: yes but right now it's my full name :|
cotto rfw, how would you like to be known in CREDITS? rfw or rofflwaffls? 08:47
rfw cotto: just rfw
cotto wfm 08:48
dukeleto is making a GCI task for the Task PMC. muhahahahaha!
cotto is making a task for going to sleep
tadzik . o O ( insrease the GCI coverage of the Task PMC) 08:49
dalek rrot: f6f2af2 | cotto++ | CREDITS:
add rfw++ to CREDITS
tadzik that'd be something: GCI::Cover. To check if really the entire project is covered with GCI tasks
rfw \\o/
cotto rfw, are you in New Zealand? 08:50
rfw cotto: yes
cotto: why do you ask? 08:51
cotto Cool. That part of the world is underrepresented among Parrot developers.
rfw ah
do you have anyone else from there :D
s/there/here/
cotto bacek is in sydney
or somewhere nearby
rfw ah
do i get the title "first new zealand parrot developer" 08:52
cotto Probably not, but I don't know of any others.
rfw aw
cotto In a ten year old project it's hard to be the first anything. 08:53
rfw heh
you know kakapo is a native new zealand parrot though
cotto yup
charming bird, if a bit dim
rfw not nearly as bad as the kea
dukeleto rfw: i have a fledling project named Kea already :) 08:57
rfw: Factor on Parrot, mostly an idea at this point : github.com/leto/kea
rfw what's a factor
dukeleto rfw: it is a stack-based programming language 08:58
rfw aren't most of them
dukeleto rfw: factorcode.org 08:59
rfw: many are stack based. This is stack-based in the sense that all functions have "stack effects" instead of arguments to the function
rfw oh, i see what you mean 09:00
dukeleto rfw: stack effects describe the necessary structure of the stack before and after the function has executed, such as "there are at least 2 elements before and 1 after" and such
rfw haha, reverse polish notation
dukeleto rfw: but they can be dynamic
rfw: yes, it reads from right to left
rfw ah this looks pretty cool 09:01
dukeleto rfw: but algorithms are extremely short in Factor. It is very expressive, not much code is needed
rfw i've actually thought about something like this
cotto sleeps
rfw night cotto
cotto 'night
rfw dukeleto: i didn't realize such a thing actually existed :D
dukeleto rfw: it is also like smalltalk in some sense that it lets you save images of environments and start them up again
rfw oh, not too familiarw ith smalltalk 09:02
dukeleto rfw: i know the guy that started Factor and a few other Factor hackers, and they are all good people that do awesome stuff
rfw ah 09:03
dukeleto rfw: nor am i, but i am learning a bunch because i am reading the Smalltalk-80 book
rfw hehe, enjoy
dukeleto rfw: Factor has a small (13K line C++ vm) and *everything* else is written in Factor 09:04
rfw dukeleto: what does the vm even have?
dukeleto rfw: only the most low level things that are architecture-specific 09:05
rfw ah, cool
dukeleto rfw: just the smallest bootstrapping that is needed
rfw: it used to has asm in the vm but that was taken out for portability reasons
rfw heh
dukeleto rfw: do you get to see Kea birds at all? 09:06
rfw yeah they're annoying as hell
they tip over rubbish bins and stuff
dukeleto rfw: flying raccoons, it sounds like 09:07
rfw haha yeah
dukeleto rfw: which task are you working on now?
rfw dukeleto: just that ci thing
dukeleto rfw: i added a slew of test coverage tasks, take a look when you need a break :) 09:08
rfw sure :D
dukeleto rfw: darter sounds cool
rfw i hope it will be cool 09:09
dukeleto rfw: what datastructures does it use?
rfw: what goes in and what goes out?
rfw um basically
the hub sends marshalled functions to the leaf nodes, which run them
and they send some kind of result back (not sure what yet)
the good thing about sending marshalled fucntions down the wire is that you don't need to individually update tests on each machine 09:11
the bad thing is that really weird crap happens if you're not careful
dukeleto rfw: what do you mean by a "marshalled function" ?
rfw well, it sends the bytecode of a test function to the leaf machines
i guess its a less crude way of sending a source file to another machine and evaluating it 09:12
it's* 09:13
dukeleto rfw: all machines NFS mount the same filesystem, so none of that is needed
rfw oh bleh
dukeleto rfw: assume every machine can see any file it needs
rfw: and at first, the master node will also be running the tests, for simplicity
rfw ah 09:14
well, the hub would need to run a leaf node on it as well and have it connect to itself
dukeleto rfw: yep
rfw: i am thinking in terms of a cron job at first, just something that updates a git repo, copies it to a bunch of temp-repo dirs, and then kicks off a bunch of build+tests 09:15
rfw: so i think you can just write the leaf code at first
rfw: don't worry about the hub
rfw: that can be added once we have leaf code working
rfw dukeleto: i was actually thinking of using a git hook that makes an rpc call to the hub 09:16
dukeleto rfw: why RPC ?
rfw: seems overly complicated
rfw well, not strictly rpc
just some kind of procedure call
dalek rrot: 1f25a8e | fperrad++ | t/dynpmc/foo.t:
[t] fix test 4, concat_s_s is gone
dukeleto rfw: sure, i was misunderstanding
rfw i wasn't quite clear :D 09:17
dukeleto rfw: i am thinking that a git hook adds an entries to some kind of datastore, then a cron job comes along (or a hub daemon) and checks for new elements in the datastore and then sends them to leaf nodes 09:18
rfw: jitterbug solves most of that
rfw: but i have never actually used jitterbug
rfw i'll need to look into jitterbug first
dukeleto rfw: so you can decide if using jitterbug is worth it
rfw: jitterbug solves the "test this against N perl's" problem, which is quite nice. You don't want to deal with that. 09:19
rfw heh
dukeleto rfw: but we can just think about 1 perl for now
rfw: we can use perlbrew to add other perls later
rfw: jitterbug uses perlbrew to choose between different perls 09:20
rfw i better add that to the list of things i need to look up later
dukeleto rfw: indeed!
rfw: also, I don't want to use Hudson, so don't waste your time on that :)
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rfw dukeleto: i should probably talk some of this over with nol888 09:22
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dukeleto rfw: i think you need to step back and think about data structures 09:24
rfw dukeleto: i do have some conception of how they would work
dukeleto rfw: what goes in? what goes out? How do you represent that data?
rfw dukeleto: i was just htinking to serialize the results in json, like i did with x264's regression testing framework 09:25
which then can be parsed by whatever
dukeleto rfw: your input is git repos and git sha1, with various configurations and your output is some kind of output of "make" and "make test" and possibly "make cover" and who knows what else
rfw: yes, of course. JSON or YAML, whichever makes more sense 09:26
rfw: they are interchangeable
rfw yes, i know :D
well, only json->yaml anyway
dukeleto rfw: if we want to have interactive javascript graphs, then JSON is more useful
rfw: there is something called JSYNC that will do json <--> yaml, except for some very rare edge cases that shouldn't be used, as far as I understand 09:27
rfw hm i'm more of a json fan seeing it's more supported + it's the native javscript data format
dukeleto rfw: so i would go with JSON, because we want the optional of interactive visualization of the data 09:28
rfw: you should take a look at tool_bench
rfw: github.com/notbenh/tool_bench 09:29
rfw ahhhh so many links to click
dukeleto rfw: it is a small utility to run benchmarks. it can give you JSON output of running a test N times and stuff like that
rfw dukeleto: github.com/rofflwaffls/digress <-- this is the regression testing framework i wrote for x264
dukeleto rfw: i help hack on it too :) 09:30
rfw it's strictly cli though
dukeleto rfw: you could use tool_bench at the end of the line, to actually generate the JSON data of timing a specific test file
rfw: but we need to focus. Are we going to focus on building, testing or benchmarking first ? 09:31
rfw building + testing first
dukeleto rfw: we will always need to build
rfw: so that is a given. Yes, i agree. building+testing
rfw since i more or less have that written :D
dukeleto rfw: can we just use digress and add stuff to it and tweak it? 09:32
rfw should be able to
dukeleto rfw: what does digress actually do? i don't see any docs ...
rfw um
git.videolan.org/?p=x264.git;a=blob...3d;hb=HEAD <-- this is the script for x264
it just generates a set of test statsitics for every revision 09:33
it doesn't parallelize or anything though, so i'd probably need to work with that
s/with/on/ 09:34
dukeleto rfw: we can work with that for now
rfw alright but first i'm going to sleep 09:35
dukeleto rfw: we don't need to do stuff in parallel yet. We don't do anything now :)
rfw night dukeleto
dukeleto rfw: have fun!
rfw: dream of parrots...
rfw i just hope they're not keas :|
09:41 rfw left
dukeleto we now have about 25ish new parrot test coverage GCI tasks 10:00
go buck wild, kids.
dalek rrot: 6009565 | mikehh++ | t/src/embed/pmc.t:
add const to two tests to get tests to build with g++
 10:12
rrot: fd68bb9 | mikehh++ | MANIFEST:
re-generate MANIFEST
 10:27
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dalek rrot: 3e9a2f0 | mikehh++ | t/pmc/mappedbytearray.t:
fix codetest failure - trailing whitespace
 10:36
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mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#1898) fulltest) at 2_11_0-335-g3e9a2f0 - Ubuntu 10.10 i386 (g++-4.5) 11:14
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mikehh what's the difference when merging into a branch with git merge master and git merge origin/master? 11:18
I've seen references to both, but can't find docs covering the difference between them 11:21
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Tene mikehh: 'master' is the commit your local master is pointing to, and origin/master is the commit you're aware of the remote repo's master pointing to. In most normal cases, these will be the same. 11:46
mikehh Tene: I did a git pull --rebase --verbose, the git merge master and it claimed - already up to date, the I did a git merge origin/master and it got a lot of stuff, what did I do wrong? 12:31
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dalek Some 'mikehh' person just gave me a 38887 byte commit packet. They need to be more careful in the future. 13:26
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whiteknight good morning, #parrot 13:51
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dalek rrot: cf870e9 | Whiteknight++ | / (3 files):
Merge remote branch 'origin/gci_deprecate_io_position'
 14:31
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SingAlong it would be nice to have a timestamp in the docs to show when the doc page changed 15:04
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NotFound SingAlong: use git log 15:14
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Coke I could see it being useful on, say, docs.parrot.org to know when it was last updated. 16:22
We could easily have "make html" do that if we're in a git repo, though. 16:23
(rather than try to track it manually)
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Coke wishes there was an option for "make" that showed build times. 16:35
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Coke pmichaud: hio 16:58
pmichaud hello, Coke 16:59
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cotto_work ~~ 17:28
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dalek rrot: 41afaba | Coke++ | examples/benchmarks/fib.pir:
Update fib.pir to match .pl output.
 17:57
Coke there's a nice little benchmark to fix. perl version runs in .7s realtime, pir runs in 3.5 or so. 17:59
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dalek rrot: 6496141 | Coke++ | editor/mk_skeleton.pir:
Don't generate the svn Id tag in the skeleton
 18:03
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cotto_work whiteknight: ping 18:06
whiteknight pong
cotto_work I made a new branch with some of kapace's work for your review
dalek rrot/kapace/api-serialize: 04ee8f9 | cotto++ | / (3 files):
add Parrot_api_pmc_serialize from kapace++
cotto_work there it is
Kapace_ morning 18:07
cotto_work hi Kapace_
Kapace_ hey cotto_work
cotto_work I love that trick of adding .diff to github urls. dukeleto++ for making that known. 18:08
dalek rrot: 93f3219 | cotto++ | src/embed.c:
typo fix
 18:19
dukeleto ~~ 18:23
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dalek rrot: e9680f1 | nwellnhof++ | src/ (10 files):
Fix usage of Parrot_str_to_cstring
 18:27
whiteknight cotto_work: I'll look at it in a bit 18:29
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cotto_work quiet day today 18:44
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dukeleto cotto_work: we are still in the holiday lull 18:53
cotto_work: what are you hacking on?
cotto_work: i created many tasks last night, hopefully that keeps the gci students busy for a few days
cotto_work I've been busy just reviewing incoming commits. Packfiles will probably be my next target. 18:54
dukeleto cotto_work: i saw some braindeadness in the PackfileSegment PMC last night 18:57
cotto_work: the get_pointer VTABLE just does "return NULL"
cotto_work: and there is lots of "XXX TODO" to implement various vtables that just throw exceptions right now
cotto_work: seems suboptimal 18:58
cotto_work "suboptimal" is a polite word
I'm really looking forward to having everything go through the Packfile PMCs.
dukeleto cotto_work: you know me, always subtle 19:00
NotFound blizkost is broken 19:02
dukeleto NotFound: OH THE HUGE MANATEE
NotFound: in what way? 19:03
NotFound symbol lookup error: /home/julian/runparrot/lib/2.11.0-devel/dynext/blizkost_group.so: undefined symbol: key_next
dukeleto NotFound: blizkost is another thing that needs to get regularly tested in our CI setup
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cotto_work dukeleto: can you start a wiki page for CI-worthy project? 19:05
whiteknight cotto_work: a big packfile redesign/reimplemenation is sorely needed 19:11
I'm sure you know that
I just want to make sure it gets plenty of brain-time after 3.0
cotto_work whiteknight: it will 19:12
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whiteknight cotto_work: with the new embedding API in, I think there are some obvious opportunities to simplify some logic, and plobsing's recent work is *exactly* what I I want to be doing 19:16
Some of the pbc-related functions in src/embed.c can go away or be refactored for big wins too, I think 19:17
I don't know if you had a chance to really look through that file yet
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whiteknight TT #1913 looks like a perfect GCI task 19:20
dalek izkost: a2833b9 | moritz++ | src/pmc/p5scalar.pmc:
update to newer parrot (incomplete)
 19:22
tracwiki: v11 | NotFound++ | ModuleEcosystem
tracwiki: New repository
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ModuleE...ction=diff
tracwiki: v12 | NotFound++ | ModuleEcosystem
tracwiki: mistake
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ModuleE...ction=diff
TT #1913 created by ajs++: README issues
TT #1913: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1913
cotto_work whiteknight: which file? 19:24
whiteknight cotto_work: src/embed.c 19:25
cotto_work "This file implements the Parrot embedding interface." <- How's that different from the embedding api? 19:27
whiteknight cotto_work: the difference is that statement is old and is a lie. The API is the embedding interface
that file contains the old API, which we need to disolve
dissolve
cotto_work ah 19:28
whiteknight I basically want to deprecate that entire file ASAP. Some of the functions can continue to live, but will be moved elsewhere and maybe renamed
some of those functions need to dei
die 19:29
dalek rrot: 65e770b | cotto++ | src/embed.c:
less lies
whiteknight cotto++ 19:30
cotto_work at the very least I'll review the ticket you started and look through the functions you list and what you want to do with them. 19:32
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whiteknight Many of the functions in that file are expressely for setting and manipulating flags, Some of them are pbc related and belong in src/packfile/* 19:35
the flag ones, now that I think about it, basically duplicate effort in src/call/context_accessors.c, so those can probably go away too 19:36
I need to update the ticket
cotto_work whiteknight: should packfiles have a Parrot_pf_* api or should everything just go through the PMCs? 19:39
I see plobsing++ already took care of one of the items. 19:40
NotFound moritz: ping 19:43
moritz NotFound: pong 19:44
NotFound moritz: Why 'incomplete'?
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NotFound It builds for me 19:44
cotto_work whiteknight: nm. I was thinking of the external interface. Parrot_pf_* will be internal. 19:45
moritz NotFound: because my build failed
NotFound Oh
moritz NotFound: I later found that it's because my perl was configured wrongly
NotFound Ah, good, then 19:46
My blizkost-Gtk2 experiments works, so it seems blizkost is fine. 19:49
Did we have some license for usage of the Parrot logo? 19:54
cotto_work you mean the one on parrot.org? istr that being allison's work.
dalek tracwiki: v3 | cotto++ | PackfileTasklist 19:55
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Packfil...ction=diff
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moritz rakudo spectest on latest parrot lookos horrible 20:35
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cotto_work moritz: how so? 20:36
slow or explodey?
moritz cotto_work: more than a screen page of failures
cotto_work Thanks for testing. Have you had a chance to bisect?
What's one test that fails? 20:38
gist.github.com/759046 <- temporary build failure when running make install at high -j 20:41
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cotto_work moritz: I'm building Rakudo now. Do you have a single test that I can use to repro before I dive into spectest_regression? 20:47
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Kapace_ if capt = new ['Capture'], $N0 = capt["number test"] should call get_number_keyed_str, right? 20:51
Tene sounds reasonable, yes 20:52
Kapace_ but it seems to be calling get_number_keyed(pmc*) instead
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bacek Kapace_, it's kind of "known issue" with IMCC. 20:57
Kapace_ hmm, whats IMCC?
bacek parrot's pir compiler 20:59
Kapace_ oh, the parse?
are there any workarounds?
whiteknight Kapace_: There might be another op you can use 21:02
Try something like $N0 = set capt, "number test"
Kapace_ whiteknight: Ok, i think I already tried that, but I'll keeping changing it etc
whiteknight Kapace_: No, Ijust looked at the list. None of the ops call VTABLE_get_number_keyed_str 21:04
Kapace_ so theres no way to test? 21:05
whiteknight that vtable in Capture may be dead code if there are no explicit uses of it and if we can't reach it through PIR
Kapace_: There may be no way to use it at all. Open a ticket to suggest we delete it.
Kapace_ ok, ill try to remove it, and see what happens too 21:06
whiteknight okay, that's a good idea
just don't commit that, since it may take a deprecation cycle to actually remove it
Kapace_ ok 21:07
cotto_work It's kinda stupid. Everything dispatches through get_x_keyed 21:09
or at least surprising
tadzik hello parrots 21:10
cotto_work hello parrots 21:11
;)
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dalek TT #1914 created by DavidCzech++: Dead code in src/pmc/Capture.pmc 21:19
TT #1914: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1914
rrot: 0264a39 | mikehh++ | t/benchmark/benchmarks.t:
update to reflect changes to examples/benchmarks/fib.pir
 21:20
moritz cotto_work: t/spec/S02-magicals/{args,pid}.t both fail on my machine
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Kapace_ whiteknight: theres 11% of coverage in those functions 21:21
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NotFound TT #1914 is not exact, the fact that the test passes if removed integer_keyed doesn't mean that vtable functions are not used. 21:23
And are used, in fact. Just put an abort(); in it to verify. 21:25
Kapace_ get_number_keyed_str
er, is being used?
NotFound Let me double-check... 21:26
I was wrong, I mistakenly placed it in the keyed_int variant 21:28
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Coke but yah, just because tests pass doesn't mean they're not used. esp. since it probably has a PMC parent. 21:32
er...
NotFound Note that not accesible from pir doesn't mean dead code. vtable functions can be used from extensions, from HLL that uses its own PMCs....
Default takes care, but the Default route is slower. 21:33
cotto_work moritz: spectest looks fine so far and both those test pass when I run them by themselves.
latest Parrot and Rakudo 21:34
Coke mikehh: danke. I ran examples tests, but not the bench ones.
moritz cotto_work: hm. I'm going to wipe my install and try again 21:35
NotFound Someone has an idea about how to cover line 91 of this? tapir2.ro.vutbr.cz/cover/cover-resu...r-pmc.html
cotto_work moritz: I do see one failure for t/spec/S29-context/die.rakudo that's not TODO'd 21:36
moritz wow, that test file hasn't been touched in 2010 at all 21:40
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cotto_work NotFound: ask bacek 21:42
actually, luben wrote it
bacek aloha, who called my name? 21:43
aloha bacek: No clue. Sorry.
bacek yak... stupid girl.
cotto_work bacek: misfire 21:44
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cotto_work though if you know how to cover line 91 of tapir2.ro.vutbr.cz/cover/cover-resu...-pmc.html, it'd be helpful 21:44
bacek cotto_work, no idea, sorry 21:46
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NotFound I can "cover" it just by shortening a bit the way is written, but trigger the condition will be a lot better. 21:46
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Kapace_ If there are HLL users or something else that uses those functions, is there a way to test them? 21:52
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NotFound Place an abort() in those functions and build rakudo with that parrot 21:54
Coke We can write tests for C code.
ah, test that they are used rather than testing them for feature. yah, do what NotFound said. 21:55
NotFound If they are really unused and we are going to discuss its killing, there's no point in writing a difficult test 21:56
Kapace_ then make rakudo's tests, and if everything passes then, present that info to the ticket? 21:57
NotFound But I think we should have an op to call that vtables, like we have for the keyed_int variants.
And made imcc generate it, of course. 21:58
Kapace_ whiteknight said he couldn't find any op to access those vtables 21:59
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mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#1908) fulltest) at 2_11_0-343-g0264a39 - Kubuntu 10.10 amd64 (g++-4.5 with --optimize) 22:03
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cotto_work seen luben 22:43
aloha luben was last seen in #parrot 28 days 3 hours ago saying "yes. I was not expecting the merge to flood the channel".
mikehh rakudo (3750262) - builds on parrot (2_11_0-343-g0264a39) - make test, make spectest_smolder[(#1909), roast (f65933f)] PASS - Kubuntu 10.10 amd64 (g++-4.5 with --optimize) 22:44
Kapace_ I tried to build rakudo with clear parrot master, compile errors: dpaste.com/292091/ 22:45
cotto_work Kapace_: what version of Rakudo? It bitrots pretty quickly. 22:52
Kapace_ master 22:53
cotto_work ok. I know that Parrot master and Rakudo master work fine for me as of now.
was that a parallel build? 22:54
Kapace_ hmm.. I probably just need to try harder/ clean up
parallel build like -j3?
cotto_work yes
also, did you install Parrot? it could be seeing an older installed version
Kapace_ yeah I sudo make installed, but no this was normal build not parallel 22:55
cotto_work I'd try a reconfig and reinstall. That shouldn't be broken.
Kapace_ ok 22:56
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Yuki`N dukeleto, ping 23:08
23:10 Patterner left
rfw am i allowed to make slavorg[n] trust people 23:12
opbots trust Yuki`N 23:14
slavorgn Ok
slavorg Ok
rfw \\o/
Kapace_ what is +o and why do we need it? 23:16
rfw Kapace_: channel operator
i don't remember {how,why} i got mine
cotto_work With great power come great photo ops. 23:29
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sorear lets you change the topic and kick people 23:36
Yuki`N But in reality nobody really uses that. 23:37
Maybe topic changing.
dalek rrot: 2368569 | nwellnhof++ | / (3 files):
Fix deletion of zero integer hash keys
rfw also you get an @ next to your nick to confuse people unfamiliar with irc
NotFound resisting temptation...
Yuki`N wwww
hurr that's where that went 23:38
ignore that
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cotto_work nice fixes from nwellnhof today 23:43
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