Parrot 3.2.0 released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | Parrot is accepted for GSoC 2011! Student application deadline is Apr 8
Set by moderator on 27 March 2011.
00:02 wagle left
bacek_at_work ~~ 00:04
moderator Topic for #parrot is: Parrot 3.3.0 released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today 00:07
whiteknight there are too many steps in the release process. we need to trim this down 00:08
or automate more of it 00:09
we should be able to cut a release in less than an hour at most, and without jumping through so many hoops
having to update all these little things on parrot.org or on trac are exactly the kinds of tasks we should be able to automate 00:16
00:17 cosimo joined
whiteknight none of the milestones since 2.11 have been marked completed on trac 00:21
so clearly people aren't following the process too closely now anyway
00:23 dmalcolm left 00:30 wagle joined
dalek rrot: c1bc61d | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
Parrot 3.3 is 'Fire in the Sky'
 00:33
rrot: a9a87f1 | Whiteknight++ | / (10 files):
Merge branch 'parrot_3_3'
ttbot Parrot 1cfaceab i386-linux-thread-multi make error tt.taptinder.org/cmdinfo/69131 00:39
whiteknight wtf
ttbot Parrot 8a1b743a i386-linux-thread-multi make error tt.taptinder.org/cmdinfo/69148 00:40
00:41 bubaflub joined
ttbot Parrot 8a1b743a i386-linux-thread-multi make error tt.taptinder.org/cmdinfo/69165 00:42
whiteknight ...lolwat?
is the bot checking every subsequent commit?
ttbot Parrot 8a1b743a i386-linux-thread-multi make error tt.taptinder.org/cmdinfo/69197 00:45
00:49 theory joined 01:32 whiteknight left 01:53 jevin left 01:58 woosley joined 02:42 bubaflub left
dukeleto msg whiteknight i totallly agree about automating more of the "many little steps" in the release process 03:04
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
03:14 jevin joined, hudnix left
cotto ~ 03:54
04:15 ShaneC left 04:30 birdwindupbird joined 04:42 ShaneC joined 05:02 cognominal left, cognominal joined 05:28 simcop2387 left 05:29 simcop2387 joined 05:48 fperrad joined 05:51 plobsing joined
cotto plobsing, ping 05:53
06:04 dafrito left 06:23 plobsing_ joined 06:27 plobsing left 06:29 dafrito joined 06:34 UltraDM joined 06:36 contingencyplan left 06:39 simcop2387 left 07:13 hudnix joined 07:26 mj41 joined 07:28 theory left 08:00 cognominal left 08:02 cognominal joined 08:18 TiMBuS joined
bacek ~~ 08:23
08:30 utsl left 08:41 utsl joined 09:06 cosimo left 09:07 jrtayloriv left 09:20 cotto left 09:32 simcop2387 joined 09:47 hudnix left 09:55 cotto joined 10:01 woosley left 10:02 particle left
mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#15120) fulltest) at 3_3_0-13-ga9a87f1 11:11
Ubuntu 11.04 beta amd64 (g++ --optimize)
11:32 woosley joined 11:56 Psyche^ joined 11:57 Patterner left, Psyche^ is now known as Patterner 12:28 simcop2387_ joined 12:29 simcop2387 left, simcop2387_ is now known as simcop2387 12:32 benabik left, smash joined
smash hello everyone 12:33
tadzik hello smash
12:38 smash left, smash joined 12:39 whiteknight joined
whiteknight good morning, #parrot 12:43
tadzik whiteknight: good morning
smash whiteknight: mornin' 12:44
12:48 mtk joined 12:50 contingencyplan joined
whiteknight good morning tadzik, smash. How are you two doing today? 12:52
tadzik not bad, besides the still-not-functional hand 12:53
whiteknight tadzik: oh, right. what's the schedule for that? How long is it going to be out of commission? 12:54
smash whiteknight++ # release
whiteknight smash: thanks! I like doing it, but every time I'm reminded about how big a pain in the ass it is to do 12:55
tadzik whiteknight: they're removing the cast and x-raying it once again this friday
whiteknight tadzik: oh, that's good. therapy after that I assume?
smash whiteknight: gratz for a job well done then
tadzik for no one's really sure whether it's broken or just badly twisted
whiteknight: no idea, time will tell
whiteknight tadzik: oh, both are bad enough
tadzik aye
12:55 hudnix joined
mikehh rakudo (e09cb7e) - builds on parrot (3_3_0-13-ga9a87f1) - make test, make spectest_smolder[(#15132), roast (7309150)] PASS 12:59
Ubuntu 11.04 beta amd64 (g++ --optimize)
27,695 ok, 0 failed, 606 todo, 1,800 skipped and 0 unexpectedly succeeded
hi whiteknight, how did the release go for you? 13:00
13:02 contingencyplan left 13:05 Coke left, Coke joined, contingencyplan joined
atrodo whiteknight> Are you going to YAPC::NA this year? 13:05
whiteknight atrodo: no sir. you? 13:10
mikehh: release went well, thanks. I'm sorry it had to wait until so late in the evening. I am determined to streamline some parts of the release process 13:11
atrodo whiteknight> Aye. Just checking the usual suspects
aloha, going to YAPC::NA 2011?
aloha atrodo: I have no idea.
13:11 ambs joined
mikehh whiteknight: good - I tend to find releasing a bit stressful, and there is room for improvement in the process 13:12
moritz whiteknight++ # 3.3 release 13:14
whiteknight moritz: just a double-check, the way I released it from a branch works fine with Rakudo, right?
13:15 particle joined
moritz whiteknight: yes 13:15
mikehh whiteknight: builds and tests fine for me, but used latest devel version of parrot 13:16
whiteknight okay, awesome
moritz whiteknight: an easy way to check if the output from git describe --tags on master after the rlease starts with RELEASE_3_3_0
whiteknight moritz: okay, that's good. I'm glad the merge makes that work correctly
and I'm glad git is smart enough to find the most recent tag
moritz for the actual rakudo release we can use arbitrary git ref specifications
we could use the SHA1, it's just less pretty - and it makes comparing versions a pain 13:17
mikehh winxed (r966) - make all/test/test1/test2 ok - ran some examples as well - on parrot 3_3_0-13-ga9a87f1 13:20
Ubuntu 11.04 beta amd64 (g++ --optimize)
whiteknight mikehh: you're a rockstar 13:27
13:28 benabik joined 13:32 GodFather joined 13:35 bubaflub joined 13:36 bluescreen joined
whiteknight msg NotFound can I use [flat], [slurpy], and [named] modifiers with multi-returns? 13:55
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
14:19 Andy_ joined
dalek rrot: 71ed521 | petdance++ | src/embed.c:
consting args. Flag unsued args. Add an XXX where we are not setting an outbound pointer.
 14:20
14:30 mtk left 14:40 mtk joined
Andy_ Who else besides me is workin' on llvm/clang? 14:42
Looks like jkeenan, anyone else?
sorry, kid51, if his client is listening
mikehh done some testing there 14:43
whiteknight what do you mean working on it?
I use clang as my default compiler
Andy_ How are you running Configure.pl?
14:43 hercynium joined
whiteknight --cc=clang --ld=clang --link=clang 14:43
Andy_ You're not using ccache? 14:44
whiteknight no
I don't think ccache works with clang
at least, it didn't last I looked
although a quick google search seems to have some promising results 14:45
Andy_ I'm working on figuring out what flags to pass to clang, like I did for GC 14:47
GCC
whiteknight okay
Andy_ and notice config/auto/llvm.pm come out 14:48
14:48 UltraDM left
Andy_ whiteknight: if I specify --ld, Configure.pl fails. 14:54
whiteknight my exact commandline is: "perl Configure.pl --cc=clang --link=clang --ld=clang" 14:56
and that's been working fine for me for a long time
Andy_ hmmm 14:58
sorry, it's if I specify --link=clang 15:00
I wonder if your clang is built not to link
rather, MINE is built not to link.
15:00 lucian joined 15:05 JimmyZ joined 15:09 theory joined 15:13 lucian_ joined 15:17 lucian left
dukeleto ~~ 15:23
whiteknight++ # releasing 3.3.0
15:25 bluescreen left
whiteknight good morning, duke 15:28
we're coming down to the acceptance deadline for GSoC. I'm starting to get excited about it 15:29
cotto ~~
whiteknight good morning cotto
dukeleto whiteknight: indeed. I haven't had enough tuits for it. Where do we stand now and what needs doing? 15:30
cotto: top of the mornin'
whiteknight dukeleto: I sent out an email this morning. If you're happy with your current assignment, you don't need to do anything
dukeleto: We still have one project in limbo that's good enough to accept but for which we don't have a mentor lined up. 15:31
dukeleto whiteknight: which? 15:33
cotto jvm bytecode translator 15:36
whiteknight dukeleto: privmsg
15:40 bluescreen joined
jnthn__ Is that for translating jvm bytecode => Parrot? 15:52
dukeleto jnthn__: i believe so 15:53
moritz didn't jnthn__ write something like that ages ago? :-) 15:54
dukeleto jnthn__: did you?
jnthn__ I did the .Net version of that. :) 15:55
www.jnthn.net/papers/2006-cam-net2p...tation.pdf 15:56
whiteknight jnthn__: are you free this summer and willing/able to do a similar project with JVM? 16:04
I haven't been keeping up with it. I have no idea what the GSoC situation in Rakudo-land is looking like
moritz if all goes well, I'll mentor a POD parser project by tadzik++ 16:06
and that's it
tadzik \\o/ 16:07
jnthn__ whiteknight: Free-ish. How much are they proposing to do? I spent quite a while on it and was already familiar with Parrot and knew quite a bit of .Net, and only got so far. 16:10
I guess my main interest in mentoring such a project would be to see how a static language on 6model pans out. In theory, I've planned for that. In practice, nobody has done one yet. :) 16:11
whiteknight www.google-melange.com/gsoc/proposa...batha/1001 16:12
that's the proposal. You can judge for yourself if it looks reasonable 16:13
jnthn__: of course, we probably won't be using 6model in parrot during this time
jnthn__ whiteknight: The proposal is quite ambitious, though it omits various things I took on which were challenging. 16:16
Actually I started out with class and method stubs as my starting point 16:17
And then started filling them out as far as was possible with the translator.
16:17 mj41 left
jnthn__ Exceptions were tricky. 16:17
16:18 GodFather left
jnthn__ I suspect much of what's proposed can be done, but it won't lead to running a great deal of actual interesting Java code. 16:19
I started running into things like, you want to translate the IO stack. But it depends on concurrency to make sure that IO is done thread-safely. 16:20
I spent weeks on it and didn't get hello world to run ;)
cotto that's instructive 16:21
16:21 JimmyZ left
jnthn__ It's not because I couldn't translate many instructions. In the end I had decent coverage of those, and the OO features, and exceptions, etc. 16:22
It was all the other stuff that goes around it.
And the fact that there were 200+ "VM internal" methods, iirc.
whiteknight is any of that the same with JVM? 16:23
we don't even know what we don't know at this point
that's why none of our existing mentors are taking this one 16:24
jnthn__ I know far less about the JVM but my expectation would be to find a similar experience.
16:24 woosley left
whiteknight getting something as simple as "hello world" working by the end of the summer would be a necessity 16:25
anything less, there's no way to consider that a success
jnthn__ Well, a class with a method that returned hello world would run fine :)
My tests were basically, take this bunch of C# and compile it to a DLL, run the DLL through the translator to get a PBC, then load it and write PIR tests that instantiated the classes in it and made method calls. 16:26
If getting "hello world" to work was critical, sure, you could put in some translation hack somewhere. :)
But doing it "properly" is probably a serious amount of effort.
whiteknight I wish we had this discussion weeks ago, when this proposal first came in 16:27
cotto Now is the second-best time to have it. 16:28
whiteknight of course, the vagueness of the proposal might suggest that the student hasn't done his due diligence in the first place
maybe the student doesn't even understand what kind of task this is supposed to be
jnthn__ I guess my overal summary would be, the deliverables are probably do-able by a decent student, but won't allow one to "run previously written JVM applications" as suggested in the abstract. 16:30
*overall
whiteknight so best-case scenario is that we are looking at a complicated translation engine that only is able to run specially-written and toy applications? 16:31
jnthn__ If all that gets done on it is the work in this proposal, then - depending on how well engineered it is - it could well be a good starting point. But it'll be plenty more work beyond that before it will run anything non-toy. 16:33
whiteknight ...which brings us to the next question: do we have any devs waiting in the environs who are itching to continue such a project? 16:34
jnthn__ It's just too big for a GSoC project, plus a lot of serious Java apps expect threads, which I suspect will become a blocker at some point too. 16:35
whiteknight yeah, we really need to get onto the threads boat soon
that's going to become a big priority for me in the coming months
I suspect a mind-meld with cotto is imminent on that topic
16:36 birdwindupbird left, ambs left
jnthn__ So yes, it's only interesting if you expect it to seed something that the Parrot project plans to continue focusing on for a while. And IMHO, there's more critical things (e.g. Lorito) that could use the focus. 16:37
whiteknight okay
16:40 davidfetter joined 16:45 cognominal left 16:46 cognominal joined, Coke left, mj41 joined 16:47 Coke joined, yell0_ joined, Drossel left, Kulag joined 16:48 cognominal left 16:51 lucian_ left, lucian joined 16:53 darbelo joined 16:56 lucian_ joined 17:00 lucian left 17:07 Coke left, Coke joined 17:11 dodathome joined
cotto_work ~~ 17:23
17:36 ShaneC left 17:37 Coke left, Coke joined
cotto_work Can someone update docs.parrot.org? 17:38
17:39 mtk left
cotto_work I'd like to see more people get the necessary account to do that. 17:44
17:44 mtk joined 17:49 lucian_ left
dalek rrot-linear-algebra: ddedd0b | Whiteknight++ | / (79 files):
rewrite harness. first pass to start updating tests.
 17:50
17:53 lucian joined, Eduardow left
whiteknight cotto_work: oh right. Who do I contact about that? osl support? 17:54
cotto_work You might be able to get them to give you an account on #osuosl 17:56
whiteknight where's that, irc.freenode.net?
cotto_work yes
17:58 preflex left, Eduardow joined 18:03 cognominal joined 18:11 dmalcolm joined
cotto_work whiteknight++ for an excellent release quote 18:14
soh_cah_toa hey guys. i was planning on asking this during yesterdays #parrotsketch but a family member needed to use my computer and i missed the meeting...
anyway, i was wondering if anyone had ever considered using flatrr (flattr.com) for accepting "micropayment" donations. i'm certainly not the business-type but i thought it may be a cool idea...
whiteknight I'm actually in the middle of reading that book, and came across that quote just a few days ago
soh_cah_toa there are a lot of other foss projects that use it (flattr.com/browse/software/all/1) and apparently its been quite successful
it's just an idea 18:15
cotto_work soh_cah_toa: that's an interesting idea. I'm not sure how the legal details would work.
18:15 ShaneC joined
whiteknight soh_cah_toa: Parrot Foundation doesn't have non-profit status right now. Money is hard to deal with 18:15
18:15 lucian left
soh_cah_toa i don't think any of that stuff matters 18:15
whiteknight I'm absolutely certain that it does matter
cotto_work +1 that it does 18:16
18:16 ShaneC left 18:17 ambs joined
soh_cah_toa well, i think they differentiate between non-profits and profits. again though, not much of a business man 18:17
whiteknight we will definitely keep that site in mind 18:18
cotto_work I've been following their blog for a while.
soh_cah_toa oh, so you've heard about it. cool 18:19
18:19 benabik left
cotto_work I like the idea and would like to see Parrot take advantage of it, but having the legal stuff ironed out a hard prerequisite. 18:20
soh_cah_toa it's a pretty neat idea. b/c there's a ton of projects i'd love to support but as a student i'm quite low on funds. something like this is great for people like me
18:21 bluescreen left
soh_cah_toa that reminds me (i don't know why)...who comes up w/ the names for each release? 18:23
whiteknight the release manager
cotto_work It's the release manager's job
soh_cah_toa and that's...?
you?
whiteknight the person who makes the release
it's different every month. We take volunteers
soh_cah_toa oh, okay
cotto_work docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod (at the bottom)
whiteknight we like to have many release managers, so if some people disappear we can keep functioning like normal 18:24
soh_cah_toa right
whiteknight soh_cah_toa: of note, we have openings in August and September and November
cotto_work dukeleto: ping
whiteknight soh_cah_toa: if you want to volunteer for any of those, you can pick your own name
actually, it would be very good if some of those slots were taken by GSoC students 18:25
dukeleto cotto_work: pong
soh_cah_toa whiteknight: well, that would be pretty cool but i think i'd need to get involved w/ some "beginners-responsibilities" first 18:26
whiteknight soh_cah_toa: okay, but keep it in mind. I suspect you will be more than ready to do it by the end of the summer
soh_cah_toa whiteknight: which i hope to accomplish at pds
cotto_work dukeleto: do you have an outline of your yapc::na talk? I want to minimize overlap.
whiteknight it's basically a matter of having a commit bit and following a checklist
soh_cah_toa whiteknight: sure, what else would it involve?
whiteknight github.com/parrot/parrot/blob/mast..._guide.pod is the whole checklist 18:27
dukeleto whiteknight: we need to automate 80% of the current release manager guide
whiteknight you basically update the version number information in the repo. Run lots of tests, etc
dukeleto: yes, I want to start working on that soon
atrodo 99%+
dukeleto cotto_work: i don't have anything more than my abstract right now
cotto_work dukeleto: ok
dukeleto atrodo: sure, but if we do 80% a few times, it works out to be the same :)
cotto_work I wouldn't either if I weren't talking on the 30th
soh_cah_toa whiteknight: yeah, you're right. i think after a few months i'd be more than capable 18:28
atrodo dukeleto> Point
dukeleto cotto_work: well, i can watch your talk and make sure that I am not overlapping too much
cotto_work: you are talking about your "state of the vm" talk, right?
cotto_work dukeleto: or that
yup
whiteknight what would be the best is if we had some kind of bot or daemon running on parrot.org which could update the drupal bits of the release process
I'm sure it's just a few short update queries to the db 18:29
dukeleto cotto_work: i think my talk will be much more about the basics, and I won't concentrate much on the latest shiny, which I assume you will be doing
whiteknight: sounds pleasant
whiteknight being able to update the trac milestones should not be too bad either. trac uses sqlite, I think
cotto_work dukeleto: I'll be doing some basics. I want a complete newbie not to be too lost.
dukeleto cotto_work: ok, well i will observe your talk and then design mine to not overlap too much 18:30
cotto_work: i submitted a last minute talk about Jitterbug to LFNW. Not sure if I will be chosen to speak, but I figured I should try.
soh_cah_toa make sure someone records your presentations. i'd love to go but it'd conflict w/ gsoc 18:31
whiteknight I don't think it would be too hard to put up a small password-protected admin site on parrot.org with a "bump version number" button on it
18:32 bluescreen joined
whiteknight I'm also wondering if we should start moving away from the osl ftp site and start using something like github to host the tarballs 18:34
Especially if it's an undue pain to update the ftp site every month with public keys and ssh and all the best
all the rest
cotto_work I'm fine either way.
whiteknight my only worry is that github probably doesn't have unlimited storage for an endless stream of releases 18:35
soh_cah_toa that reminds me, www.parrot.org/release/supported is broken 550
whiteknight damnit 18:36
stupid drupal
cotto_work ftp://ftp.parrot.org/pub/parrot/releases/supported/3.0.0/parrot-3.3.0.tar.gz 18:37
fixed
soh_cah_toa fixed. nice and fast. i like
cotto_work see if you can spot the goof
dukeleto whiteknight: github also names tarballs in a non-standard way that you can't change 18:38
whiteknight: it embeds the sha1 in the tarball name
but cotto_work's worry is valid as well
whiteknight oh weird 18:39
that's a stupid typo on my parto
dukeleto we just need to automate docs.parrot.org and the ftp links. Those are the most common things that are broken after a release
history tells us that they are mundane annoying tasks that almost everybody forgets to do
soh_cah_toa: you would gain many karma points by helping us automate those 2 things 18:40
cotto_work Automating the tarball upload and docs generation would be *really* nice.
It's easily-automated busy work. The only reason I haven't automated it is because I only do it once a year (+/-). 18:41
soh_cah_toa well, what do you guys do to upload the tarball now?
whiteknight soh_cah_toa: scp and a little voodoo
dukeleto is the release manager for 3.9 and wants it to be as little work as possible
soh_cah_toa hmm...i know scp but not much voodoo 18:42
whiteknight the biggest portion of time in the release is running fulltest twice
soh_cah_toa whiteknight: ouch
whiteknight although, that's also the easiest part.
updating the version numbers in all the various files is tedious and easy to automate
uploading the tarballs can stay manual. Updating the drupal links should be automated 18:43
cotto_work It's funny how often having a dayjob where I do Drupal hacking all day comes in handy. 18:44
soh_cah_toa well, i'm not too familiar w/ content management systems like drupal. do is have some sort of scripting engine for automation? if so, that'd be easy
dukeleto whiteknight: for updating strings in many files: github.com/leto/Util/blob/master/bin/replace.pl
dukeleto goes on a run
cotto_work soh_cah_toa: there's a scripting thingy called "drush" 18:45
It'd probably be a pain to set up permissions for it though.
soh_cah_toa well, how do you propose to automate the release process then? 18:46
b/c i'd love to help. i just need some guidance 18:47
18:50 bluescreen left
whiteknight I could probably write a short script in ~20 minutes that would do most of the necessary work. 18:51
18:53 jevin left, jevin joined
whiteknight 1) build the old parrot for bootstrapping 2) update version numbers and other details in various files 3) use old parrot to build the core ops 4) reconfigure + rebuild to get new parrot 5) make fulltest 6) make release 7) make release_check 18:53
18:53 benabik joined
whiteknight that's all very very easy to automate. Everything besides step #2 there could be a small makefile 18:53
soh_cah_toa whiteknight: do you guys use git tags for version numbers? 18:54
whiteknight we tag releases, yes 18:55
soh_cah_toa whiteknight: lightweight or annotated?
whiteknight lightweight
soh_cah_toa okay
actually, it'd be pretty easy w/ a simple perl 5 script
18:55 cognominal left
whiteknight although I guess there's no reason we couldn't annotate a release tag 18:55
soh_cah_toa: if you think you have the perl5 chops, go for it 18:56
I'd probably try to write it in winxed :)
soh_cah_toa most of the things that need to be done are system commands anyway
whiteknight A short script could prompt for a few pieces of information: Enter the version number. Enter the release name. Enter a short quote (optional)
exactly
Can you pipe output through a system() call? 18:57
I've never tried to do it directly
soh_cah_toa not sure. you can w/ open() 18:58
whiteknight ah, right
You could use backticks too. Some parts of the release need to extract console output
although, if "make fulltest" passes, there's no real reason to log its entire output
soh_cah_toa that's find 18:59
*fine
whiteknight an automated solution should probably check if PBC_COMPAT needs a bump, but shouldn't try to do it directly 19:00
we can save that for human hands
soh_cah_toa alright 19:01
19:05 bluescreen joined
whiteknight I have a general question, why the hell do we have a ChangeLog file if we robotically update it every month to say "nothing useful here, look at NEWS instead LOL" 19:06
I suggest we delete ChangeLog, or replace its entire contents with a single redirect to NEWS and never ever update it again?
soh_cah_toa whiteknight: when building old parrot, should i run a 'make install' or just 'make' 19:08
whiteknight and what exactly is the distro_tests target? It's so short I don't see why we wouldn't be running it more often
just make
soh_cah_toa ok
whiteknight and does "make world" do anything different in our makefile than just "make" does? 19:09
crow.pir should be able to search for .sha256 files in the repo and include them automatically
crow.pir should *definitely* be able to email a list of recipients 19:10
soh_cah_toa whiteknight: do you want the script to clone the current version or should it be executed after a 'git clone'? 19:12
whiteknight I don't clone. you can do whatever you want there 19:13
soh_cah_toa so i can assume that i'm in the parrot root directory? for now, that can be fixed later 19:14
whiteknight yeah
soh_cah_toa alright
whiteknight assume that the person using this tool is a competent Parrot hacker
dukeleto soh_cah_toa: yes, assume you are in the root of a checkout 19:15
soh_cah_toa alright. i'm working on it now. you can take a look at it once it done. it's just a rought draft 19:16
dukeleto soh_cah_toa++
whiteknight: i agree with all of your above sentiments
+1 to removing ChangeLog
whiteknight: i think ChangeLog is because debian requires a file like that, but I could be wrong
whiteknight dukeleto: We could generate such a worthless and repetitive file on the fly 19:17
dukeleto: we have the technology to put a short text template in a short for-loop
dukeleto whiteknight: yes. I totally agree. 19:18
whiteknight: should we be tracking all of this in a TT?
whiteknight maybe
These are all things that I'll be mentioning at #ps in about 5 months when I am next able to attend, if nobody mentions it first
dukeleto whiteknight: mentioning these in 5 months is not acceptable. You have the memory of what really sucked right now. You won't in 5 months. 19:19
dukeleto creates a ticket 19:20
whiteknight I am tempted to suggest we should stop using milestones on trac too
I went in last night and closed every track milestone since 3.0, all of which should be getting closed at their respective release 19:21
and we haven't really been using them recently anyway. We may want to just reject the whole milestones system on trac 19:22
dukeleto whiteknight: i haven't found it very useful. It seems to be mostly wishful thinking 19:23
whiteknight once we started moving to our new system of more strict milestone goals, we stopped using the mechanism on trac
so maybe we should just disable it entirely if we aren't using it
dukeleto whiteknight: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2099 19:25
whiteknight dukeleto++
dukeleto whiteknight: please add stuff that you feel is important to automate that I missed
whiteknight will do
dukeleto whiteknight: awesome
soh_cah_toa whiteknight: before you mentioned to rebuild and reconfigure. would this just be a 'git pull' and then rebuild like usual? 19:30
whiteknight make reconfigure and make. You probably don't need to pull at any time after the release has started 19:31
dukeleto soh_cah_toa: as a general rule, you should run Configure.pl after any git pull or rebase, lest you wake the daemons 19:32
soh_cah_toa okay, that's after 'make bootstrap_ops' for old parrot?
dukeleto soh_cah_toa: it will work without doing that sometimes. And other times, it will cause subtle bugs that will drive you insane.
soh_cah_toa the 'make reconfigure' i mean
dukeleto: alright
dukeleto soh_cah_toa: just general advice :) 19:33
soh_cah_toa dukeleto: i usually do that anyway. just for good measure
dukeleto soh_cah_toa: there is a good reason for it :)
benabik What is 'make reconfigure'?
soh_cah_toa yeah, i can't find it either. whiteknight, where's 'make reconfigure'? 19:34
dukeleto benabik: basically calls Configure.pl again with the same args as last time
it is "make reconfig"
soh_cah_toa dukeleto: yeah, there it is
dalek TT #2099 created by dukeleto++: Automate more of the release manager process 19:35
TT #2099: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2099
soh_cah_toa 'make fulltest' has to be run twice, right? 19:38
whiteknight yes. 19:39
make release_check automatically does that, I think
or, does it the second time
soh_cah_toa alright
dukeleto someone needs to port BLOOD to Parrot: portal.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=130489 19:43
so we can say "some parrot hackers write in BLOOD"
19:45 jevin left 19:50 jevin joined 19:55 jevin left 19:59 lucian joined, benabik left 20:00 benabik joined 20:03 rohit_nsit08 joined
rohit_nsit08 hello #parrot 20:04
soh_cah_toa rohit_nsit08: hey
rohit_nsit08 soh_cah_toa: hi
how are u ?
whiteknight hello rohit_nsit08
rohit_nsit08 whiteknight: hello
parrot 3.3.0 20:05
tadzik oh, the rhyme
rohit_nsit08 i liked the name "fire in the sky" :-)
davidfetter puts on some deep purple for rohit_nsit08 20:06
tadzik dum, dum dum dum dum duum, dum
soh_cah_toa smoke on the water
tadzik bravo!
rohit_nsit08 soh_cah_toa: one of my fav!!
20:07 benabik_ joined
soh_cah_toa i wonder if that's what it's actually named after 20:07
20:08 benabik left, benabik_ is now known as benabik
whiteknight I read an interview one time that says it was named after a building fire the band witnessed 20:08
soh_cah_toa the gambling house 20:09
rohit_nsit08 whiteknight: I'm trying to build 3.3.0 on my system, pulled it from git. says incompatible version of 'core ops'
pbc_to_exe error
whiteknight rohit_nsit08: make realclean, reconfigure, and try again
20:10 jevin joined
rohit_nsit08 whiteknight: worked and done. 20:13
whiteknight rohit_nsit08: awesome. I wish we could avoid that problem 20:14
soh_cah_toa whiteknight: alright, i've got a rough draft for the release manager script. should i nopaste? dcc it to you?
whiteknight soh_cah_toa: email it? I'm heading home from work soon 20:15
soh_cah_toa parrot at work? that's dedication
whiteknight barely
all I do from here is chat and run tests 20:16
soh_cah_toa will be back in a minute 20:20
whiteknight soh_cah_toa++ 20:24
20:25 dodathome left 20:26 mtk left, bluescreen left
cotto_work soh_cah_toa: you can nopaste it too. I know whiteknight isn't the only one who cares. 20:28
20:33 mtk joined 20:36 whiteknight left
dalek tracwiki: v2 | cotto++ | ParrotTalks 20:38
tracwiki: add OSBridge talk
tracwiki: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ParrotT...ction=diff
nopaste "soh_cah_toa" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Release Management Automation Script (Rough Draft)" (146 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/41132 20:42
cotto_work looks
soh_cah_toa don't mind the indentation in the tag() function. i accidentaly had them as tabs instead of spaces and nopaste reformatted it 20:44
actually, i see there's a few places. easily fixed
cotto_work soh_cah_toa: have you looked at the release makefile target? 20:45
don't worry too much about that at this point
soh_cah_toa whiteknight told to
cotto_work sketching out the idea is the important part
soh_cah_toa *told me to
cotto_work (I mean stuff like whitespace fixes)
soh_cah_toa oh, okay
anyway, yeah i did look at the release target. why? 20:46
cotto_work That seems like a natural place to put the code
maximum laziness for the release manager 20:47
benabik soh_cah_toa: Why chomp $line; print "$line\\n" and not print $line ?
soh_cah_toa smakes forehead 20:48
yeah, that just removes the newline only to add it again in the next line
and i meant to say smack 20:49
benabik soh_cah_toa: That was what I thought, but I'm only glancing at it while doing homework.
soh_cah_toa SMACKS again
benabik: good catch
the old way adds a lot of unnessecary overhead 20:50
cotto_work Automation is much more valuable than efficiency. If the script takes twice as long as it would to do it by hand, but the script can be run unattendedly, it's still an improvement. 20:53
soh_cah_toa cotto_work: true
21:02 fperrad left 21:12 bubaflub left 21:13 hercynium left 21:21 sigue joined 21:28 ambs left 21:34 ShaneC1 joined 21:39 davidfetter_ joined 21:41 theory left 21:42 davidfetter left 21:43 davidfetter_ is now known as davidfetter 21:46 darbelo left, darbelo joined 21:47 benabik left 21:50 mj41 left 21:51 darbelo left 21:52 benabik joined, benabik left 21:54 ShaneC joined 21:56 ShaneC1 left 22:00 rohit_nsit08 left 22:22 Coke left, Coke joined
bacek_at_work ~~ 22:26
22:42 bubaflub joined 22:48 cognominal joined 22:50 smash left, kid51 joined 22:58 cognominal left, whiteknight joined 22:59 yell0_ left 23:02 pranq joined, pranq left 23:04 Andy_ left 23:06 theory joined
dalek p/ctmo: e199d50 | jonathan++ | src/pmc/stable.pmc:
Mark WHO.
 23:06
p/ctmo: 30a5cbb | jonathan++ | src/metamodel/how/NQPClassHOW.pm:
Catch adding a null method - it's almost certainly a sign of a problem.
p/ctmo: a89b31b | jonathan++ | src/Regex/P6Regex/Actions.pm:
Actually declare that $REGEXNAME is our scoped rather than never actually declaring it anywhere in NQP.
p/ctmo: 592c026 | jonathan++ | src/ (2 files):
Avoid a double-encoding bug (by us then by the toolkit) that oddly manifested itself during other refactors.
p/ctmo: c45260d | jonathan++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
First bite into the package refactor. This changes our-scoped variable storage and lookups in packages. It's enough to give us working storage and lookup of package-scoped variables in lexical packages though, which has never worked before. Various unsurprising regressions. Also eliminates a bit more Q:PIR.
 23:12
p/ctmo: fe98d9f | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (7 files):
Rebootstrap with the first set of package changes. No especial need, it's mostly just comforting that it still passes the same tests as pre-rebootstrap. :-)
 23:16
23:26 lucian left
kid51 Hmm, 'master' is now building successfully on Darwin/PPC. 23:46
kid51 keeps fingers crossed re tests.
cotto_work I didn't know anyone had tried to fix it. 23:47
kid51 But still getting 4 test failures in t/src/extend_vtable.t
linux/i386: make fulltest PASS 23:48
whiteknight I'm starting to sincerely dislike that test
kid51 discuss w/ dukeleto!
GeJ Good morning everyone. 23:51
kid51 Bonjour, G�raud!
whiteknight section 10.f of the release manager guide is *extremely* light on details 23:54
23:54 cosimo joined
whiteknight so I'm supposed to take docs/resources and docs/html, and expand them both into a single directory in the web root? 23:57
and maybe somebody can explain to me why this is a manual process at all? Why don't we have a post-commit hook or something here to automatically pull changes from the repo and build the html files in place? 23:59

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!