Parrot 3.6.0 "Pájaros del Caribe" released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | #parrotsketch meeting Tuesday 19:30 UTC
Set by moderator on 23 July 2011.
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dalek sella: 03093bc | Whiteknight++ | src/include/String.winxed:
forward declarations for String
 01:45
sella: 96b3070 | Whiteknight++ | src/include/ (2 files):
Forward declarations for Test
sella: ec3b1f4 | Whiteknight++ | src/unstable/template/handler/If.winxed:
Update Template.Handler.If to fix tests
sella: 0dce89e | Whiteknight++ | src/ (9 files):
forward declarations for FileSystem, Path, Proxy. Build is now mostly warnings-free
sella: ff096c5 | Whiteknight++ | src/event/ (2 files):
A few small cleanups for Event
sella: 4ebf95f | Whiteknight++ | src/harness/ (5 files):
Several cleanups in Harness
sella: 3da8a5f | Whiteknight++ | src/memoize/ (3 files):
cleanups for Memoize
sella: c1342e3 | Whiteknight++ | src/mockobject/ (9 files):
Cleanups/updates to MockObject
sella: 9137824 | Whiteknight++ | src/ (16 files):
Cleanups and fixes for Proxy
sella: 728910b | Whiteknight++ | src/query/ (3 files):
cleanups to Query
 01:46
sella: 7c1a624 | Whiteknight++ | src/test/ (8 files):
Some cleanups and fixes for Test
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cotto ~~ 02:37
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dalek rrot/m0-prototype: 2f76eee | cotto++ | t/m0/integration/m0_chunk_name_const.m0:
expand the chunk name constants teswt a bit
 04:33
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dalek kudo/nom: ed26e45 | pmichaud++ | / (4 files):
An initial implementation of $*ARGFILES and lines().
 05:10
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cotto dukeleto, you alive? 05:26
seen dukeleto
aloha dukeleto was last seen in #parrot 8 hours 11 mins ago saying "lucian: probably both".
cotto promising
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cotto dukeleto, I'm thinking about libraries in M0. I'm not convinced of chromatic's idea that pure M0 userspace code can be used to load a library without a dedicated instruction. 05:32
The chunk name constants stuff I just added (see github.com/parrot/parrot/blob/m0-p...e_const.m0 ) is one component of proper library support, but there are others.
M0 currently has only a weak concept of a "main" chunk (run by default when a m0b is executed directly) and no concept of a chunk to be run when a m0b file is loaded as a library.
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cotto I 05:34
I'm currently cheating by using string encoding #0 to indicate that the value is a chunk name and should be replaced with the index of the relevant chunk when the m0b file is loaded. 05:36
It's a tad hacky, but I don't think the extra bit in the encoding field will be missed. 05:37
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dalek p: b5f2c5d | pmichaud++ | src/HLL/Compiler.pm:
-e option to HLL::Compiler needs to pass an arg0.
 06:14
kudo/nom: ad0bb3f | pmichaud++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
Bump NQP_REVISION to get -e argument handling fix.
 06:32
kudo/nom: 953c714 | pmichaud++ | src/ (3 files):
Clean up $*ARGFILES, .lines, .eof, and .get.
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dalek sella: 2e3f4ba | Whiteknight++ | src/unstable/template/Engine.winxed:
Experimental recursion-limiting code for Template.Engine
 11:08
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dalek kudo/nom: 512670d | moritz++ | / (3 files):
enable ro-accessors for natively typed attributes
 11:43
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whiteknight good morning, #parrot 12:33
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bubaflub ~ 13:12
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atrodo =~ 13:22
dalek sella: 9c8b298 | Whiteknight++ | src/unstable/template/ (2 files):
Refactor Template.Engine out a bit to be cleaner. Implement recursion-limiting. Break logic into easily-subclassable chunks.
 13:31
sella: b0c4f02 | Whiteknight++ | src/unstable/template/Engine.winxed:
+comment
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Coke msg kid51 saw the request to restart, saw the "nevermind", but I did it anyway, it's been at least a week. 13:39
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
Coke ughs at the closing of #849. 13:40
(yes, I didn't respond to jim's request, honestly I don't remember seeing it.) ah well, one more thing hlls can do on their own with some C. 13:41
whiteknight I'm not sure I agree with closing it either. Of course, I'm probably not going to implement it myself, so I can't complain 13:44
Doesn't mean Parrot can't have it. Just means there isn't a ticket 13:45
Coke I assume it's a waste of my time to, when I'm the original poster, to say "of course I still want this ticket" 13:53
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whiteknight I wouldn't say it's a waste of time. I don't know who is going to implement it 13:59
dukeleto probably knows how, but he says it's going to be a mess of platform-specific code
that doesn't sound promising 14:00
of course, maybe that doesn't matter. We have lots of open tickets that clearly no particular person is tackling right now 14:02
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Felipe morning guys 14:50
whiteknight good morning Felipe
Coke if I'm on a feature branch, should I be merging from master using --no-ff or not? 14:58
moritz with --no-ff, IMHO 15:00
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whiteknight how would a running .pbc file determine if it's being run from its development or install directory? 15:33
dalek p: dc942fb | pmichaud++ | src/QRegex/Cursor.nqp:
Have !cursor_start create failing cursors by default. Fixes problem with default alpha/alnum/upper/etc. rules not failing properly (moritz++).
 15:34
moritz compare the full with the prefix configure option?
*full path 15:35
whiteknight how do I get the full path of a loaded bytecode file? 15:39
moritz you patch whatever part it is that loads the bytecode file to make that information available to you 15:41
whiteknight heh, I was hoping that wasn't the answer 15:42
moritz would make fixing trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1833 a lot easier, I think 15:43
whiteknight okay, I'm sold. I'll start fixing 15:46
moritz mind you, there might already be a way that I don't know about
whiteknight I don't think there is 15:47
dalek kudo/nom: 3c8f0b6 | pmichaud++ | src/Perl6/Compiler.nqp:
Fix bug in interactive mode introduced by @*ARGS changes.
 15:52
kudo/nom: d973a42 | pmichaud++ | / (2 files):
Bump NQP_REVISION to get alpha/alnum/digit/etc. fixes.
rrot/whiteknight/packfile_path: 0a84eb7 | Whiteknight++ | / (4 files):
Add a new IGLOBALS_LOADED_PBCS global to be a cache for load_bytecode_p_s. Add a ->path attr to packfile view to optionally hold the string path of the packfile, if it was loaded from a file with load_bytecode_p_s
 16:00
whiteknight $P0 = load_bytecode "foo.pbc" \\n $S0 = $P0 \\n say $S0 16:01
should return the complete path
or, whatever path was used to load it 16:02
moritz whiteknight++ 16:03
whiteknight that won't fix TT #1833. I need to look at that more closely
cotto ~~ 16:18
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whiteknight you know what I absolutely hate? Things like get_string/set_string_native 16:26
why can't they be named similarly?
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dalek rrot/whiteknight/packfile_path: 5ef23c5 | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/packfileview.pmc:
get_string_native -> get_string. Why? LOLWTF, that's why.
 16:31
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dukeleto ~~ 16:42
lolwtf++
whiteknight dukeleto: I'd like to hear more of your thoughts about TT #849 16:45
I don't know much about filetimes, but kid51 mentioned that you suggested it would be a pain
dukeleto whiteknight: it is just very platform-specific code to deal with setting filetime attributes 16:49
whiteknight: because stat() has a sligthly different datastructure across OS's
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whiteknight dukeleto: does it need more granularity than is provided by our current filesystem routines in src/platforms/*? 16:54
dukeleto whiteknight: not sure. all i really told kid51++ was "that is not a 10 minute task, it requires understanding and testing on all our supported platforms" 16:55
whiteknight: i don't know much more than that 16:56
whiteknight gotcha
I don't even know how we would do automated testing with it. I know platforms like windows are explicitly not set up to have GetFileTimes return the same values as SetFileTimes, etc 16:57
and that those kinds of updates might be delayed
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cotto_work ~~ 17:10
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dalek sella: 6a8df57 | Whiteknight++ | src/unstable/utilities/mk_winxed_header.winxed:
add in a new test utility, which reads in a .pbc file and creates a winxed header file from it
 17:23
sella/new_load_bytecode: 26d08bc | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
Update some infrastructure, and update a test to see how the new loading system will look
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cotto_work dukeleto: ping 17:45
tadzik ~~ 17:47
dukeleto cotto_work: pong 17:53
tadzik: how goes it? how is your gsoc project going?
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whiteknight benabik: ping 18:06
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benabik whiteknight: pong 18:06
whiteknight benabik: have you heard from bacek lately? 18:07
tadzik dukeleto: crap. My laptop's broken. I'm trying to set up another workstation, but I'll definitely have some slips in the schedule :/
benabik whiteknight: Nyet. 18:08
dukeleto tadzik: PROTIP: save a VM image of your basic workstation, to insure against this happening in the future 18:09
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tadzik dukeleto: the working environment the smallest of problems 18:11
whiteknight benabik: okay, then we are overdue for a meeting. When is good for you? 18:16
benabik whiteknight: I'm pretty open today & tomorrow.
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cotto_work dukeleto: did you happen to see my ramblings about libraries and M0 last night? ( irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/2011-07-25#i_4163958 ) 18:29
afk 15m 18:33
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dalek p: 4fb5124 | pmichaud++ | src/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
Avoid vtable_bool for determining whether subrule passed/failed.
 18:39
kudo/nom-install: 6a45ccb | moritz++ | / (2 files):
try to make nom installable

This is... wrong. It installs rakudo's pbcs into the general parrot install location, because I can't figure out where the pbcs are actually loaded, and how. On the plus side it gives us an idea what files need to be installed.
It gets us so far that we can actually run the perl6 binary from outside the installation path, but using an Int literal results in "Could not locate compile-time value for symbol Int"		 18:48
cotto_work back 18:50
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dukeleto cotto_work: what exactly can't M0 do in regard to loading libraries? 18:53
cotto_work dukeleto: load other M0 libraries 18:54
(without assuming something about the underlying implementation)
dukeleto cotto_work: explain the exact use case to me that is needed and why it is currently impossible. I ask because I have looked away from M0 for a few weeks, so I don't know all the latest details
dukeleto will be back in 10min 18:55
cotto_work dukeleto: the use case is any library-like thing, e.g. dynpmcs, dynops or anything that wants to extend what an M0-based Parrot can do. 18:56
dukeleto: It's currently impossible because M0 doesn't have any facility for loading more than one .m0b file. 18:57
Coke do we want to be able to extend from M0?
cotto_work Coke: if Parrot is to be based on M0, yes. (by "from M0", I assume you mean "from anything that compiles down to M0") 18:58
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dukeleto Coke: extend in what sense? 19:08
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dukeleto cotto_work: well, i see different paths. One path is "there can be only one m0b file loaded at a time", which means you make sure that there is a utility to combine many m0b files together into a combined m0b file 19:09
cotto_work: or you go down the path of loading arbitrary numbers of m0b files 19:10
cotto_work: one issue i see is runtime loading
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dukeleto cotto_work: i.e. loading of m0b at run-time. That pretty much requires the ability to load arbitrary numbers of m0b files, since we have to do a load at compile time first, and then possibly runtime m0b loading later 19:11
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dukeleto cotto_work: what does the spec have to say about loading multiple m0b files? anything? 19:11
cotto_work dukeleto: nothing yet 19:15
That's why I'm thinking about it.
dukeleto cotto_work: sounds like we need to modify the in-memory state of the m0 interp when we load m0b at compile or run-time, and we need to explicit about the semantics that are expected 19:19
s/to explicit/to be explicit/
cotto_work dukeleto: yes 19:20
dalek kudo/nom: 91d7ab5 | pmichaud++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
Bump NQP_REVISION to get cursor boolean fixes. (moritz++)
 19:29
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dalek sella: ceceef4 | Whiteknight++ | / (10 files):
Make sure template files get installed to a shared data location. Add a dirty lookup routine to find a template in a standard area. Move templates to a better directory
 19:35
sella: c9772dc | Whiteknight++ | src/unstable/utilities/test_all_lib.winxed:
Add in a stub for a new driver program
sella: 83ee6da | Whiteknight++ | / (5 files):
+new Repeat handler to do basic integer counting
sella: d1349cb | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
Small fixes and a few tests for Repeat
sella: 4171919 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
Repeat can take context keys too
sella: f11a428 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
Repeat now has FIRST and LAST markers, like For loop
sella: f8f0cda | Whiteknight++ | rosella/data/templates/test.winxed.template:
Updates to the test.winxed template. Use Repeat loop and method arity value to automatically create argument variables
sella: c3ef840 | Whiteknight++ | rosella/data/templates/test.winxed.template:
small cleanups
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jay I'm back from my conference, returning to the benchmark question. Anyone around? 19:49
whiteknight hello jay 19:50
jay Hello!
whiteknight which conference were you at?
jay Just a small workshop up at Wesleyan. Next week is the big one in Miami.
whiteknight oh, which one is that?
jay Joint Statistical Meetings, JSM 19:51
So I'm just playing with squaak for starters. Two steps seem to work, using the 00-sanity.t file:
./installable_squaak --target=pir 00-sanity.t > foo.pir
parrot -o foo.pbc foo.pir 19:52
Then I try to run it (possibly in the wrong way);
parrot foo.pbc
jay@bayesman:~/Desktop/SVN/Q/squaak$ parrot foo.pbc
invoke() not implemented in class 'Undef'
current instr.: '_block1000' pc 74 (foo.pir:38) (00-sanity.t:2)
whiteknight the generated .pir file probably doesn't have all the necessary setup logic
in your compiler driver program, there is some setup logic that needs to be duplicated in the generated .pir files. 19:53
We need to figure out how to put that there
jay Ok. If it's not the sort of thing I can reasonably figure our (or if it would take you too much time) it is not a big deal. It's just that the straight-up benchmarks of NQR vs R weren't really that good. 19:54
whiteknight yeah, Parrot is always going to have a certain amount of overhead beyond what a well-written C program has 19:57
VM startup time, then opcode dispatch time on each opcode
JIT can help make the second factor go away
we don't have that yet, however
jay And of course there are plenty of other things i could work on. Question: I haven't grepped for it yet, but your matrixy Actions file had things like !index_assign... is this contained in matrixy someplace? 19:58
whiteknight yeah, there were several files with helper routines like that
jay Yeah, Just found one... in builtins it appears.
whiteknight Matrixy was done back before I had written PLA, so I didn't have native matrix types to play with. All the "matrices" I was using were arrays of arrays, so I needed helper routines to work with them 19:59
plus, I was trying to support some of the really ugly assignment syntax, so some things got crazy pretty quick
jay Ok. I may just try to fix up the most basic atomic assignments at this point and not attempt the more complex ones. 20:00
whiteknight jay: In the matrixy TOP grammar action method, I was using a small inline block to add initialization PIR code to the top of various files 20:01
you can probably do the same in NQR
jay Just a sec, I'll peek 20:02
whiteknight Anything that isn't required by the parser at compile time can probably be moved into a similar block so that it is added to the generated pir
I'll have to take a look at this compile thing, see what is missing from the generated PIR file 20:04
jay Ok, I see it.... .get_results ... and !_final_exception_handler, with a try(). I could compare that to mine.
whiteknight jay: Can you gist me the contents of that foo.pir file? 20:05
gist.github.com
jay Sure, just a second.
whiteknight since I can't run it here
jay Remember, I'm just trying this with squaak, not NQR. Got to be easier... 20:06
gist.github.com/1105053
dalek R: 85184e1 | (Jay Emerson)++ | / (2 files):
Getting back to work...
 20:08
whiteknight oh, squaak. Right
jay I figure if I can't do the same thing with squaak, first, I don't have a chance with NQR. 20:09
whiteknight okay, the generated PIR code here is very wrong 20:10
new $P100, "Undef"
$P100("1..25")
clearly, that sequence is going to throw an exception
jay The 00-sanity.t file runs just fine with parrot setup.pir in squaak, of course. So it must be the compilation process that led to that foo.pir? 20:11
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jay ./installable_squaak --target=pir 00-sanity.t > foo.pir 20:13
be right back 20:14
whiteknight open up that foo.pir file, and at the top of the first function, add a line "load_language 'Squaak'"
then compile to .pbc and try to run it 20:15
it's not loading in the runtime at all, and I don't know what the best way to do that is
When you run it from the compiler, the compiler is already loaded in memory so all the methods it uses are in memory too
when you're running it as that pir file, the compiler-related details aren't being loaded anywhere 20:16
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jay ~~ sorry, had to meet a workman out back. 20:37
Will try that now...
Coke who is our GSOC org admin this year? duke or whiteknight? 20:39
jay Bingo! Ok, will document that before I lose it. whiteknight++
whiteknight both
Coke (are we setup to get paid?)
whiteknight jay: Okay, that's the thing you can add to that TOP rule
Coke: I have no idea right now
Coke we should start the ball rolling out that now, not at program end. 20:40
whiteknight I'll talk to dukeleto about it
Coke also, who is getting sent to the mentor conf?
draw straws? you and duke?
whiteknight I'm certainly not going. I don't know who is, if anybody
Coke We should definitely send someone. 20:41
dukeleto Coke: i think we have 3 slots. I would like to go, so that leaves two open slots
Coke: the extra slot is because we were part of gci as well
Coke I will go if you cannot find any other volunteers. ;) 20:43
jay whiteknight: it also worked on my nqr benchmark. With the particular benchmark I did, it made essentially no difference. I need to try it with another example that has more interpreted code and less compiled C code I htink.
Coke but given my current level of involvement in the org, I should probably not be at the top fo the list.
cotto_work I think I'd be up for it. 20:44
Hmmm. The first day is the new end of the world. That might make it tricky. 20:45
dukeleto: you have a release right before then. 20:46
Coke someone can cover for him if needed. 20:47
cotto_work Coke: sure. I bring it up because now would be a good time to reschedule.
Coke ponders an automatic build process for the docs on the docs server. 20:48
cotto_work Coke++
It'd be nearly trivial. You wouldn't even need a full build.
Coke whiteknight: you merged a branch yes? Please update NEWS. 20:49
cotto_work: no, just the bare minimum of tools. 20:50
whiteknight Coke: Will do. I have more coming. I'll make a few updates together
cotto_work: If you get a spare moment, can you take a look at the whiteknight/packfile_path branch. I think there is win here, I would like a sane second opinion 20:51
cotto_work whiteknight: is that worth caching? 20:52
load_bytecode_* doesn't happen that often.
dukeleto cotto_work: i timed my release to be near the summit :) 20:53
cotto_work dukeleto: wfm. I'm happy as long as you know what you're getting into.
whiteknight cotto_work: that's what we were talking about yesterday. At the very least, it prevents us from loading the same .pbc file twice, then getting conflicts when the various functions are imported into existing namespaces, etc 20:54
What I'm most uncertain about is adding the file path information to the PackfileView PMC
dukeleto to clarify: we need to decide on one GSoC mentor and one GCI mentor to attend the summit 20:55
cotto_work whiteknight: ok. I'd ask how it'll support loading a .pbc file that's expected to have changed, but I don't think we have any facility to unload a library.
whiteknight with the cache, we have a path to it 20:56
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whiteknight right now, we GC register every PackfileView that we create, to simulate old-style behavior 20:56
instead, we can keep them in that cache most of the time. When we delete the from the cache they can be GC collected and destroyed 20:57
also, we could have a manual unloading process which removes it from the cache and destroys explicitly
although we have to think very very hard about some of the consequences
cotto_work pmc2c-- for not catching get_string_native
whiteknight pmc2c-- for everything 20:58
cotto_work and pmc2c-- again just because
whiteknight: the branch isn't very scary.
whiteknight no, it's very easy, and I think it will be very helpful
cotto_work I'm afraid you may not end up being able to break master with it.
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whiteknight What we can do is load a library, that library can load itself to get its own reference from the cache, look at it's own file path, and determine where it lives, if it is installed or not, etc 20:59
or a program can do similar to determine if it is using an installed, or local version of a particular dependency 21:00
cotto_work if it really wants to
whiteknight right
Anyway, I'm packing up now, I'll be back on later
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cotto_work There's finally a program that can bang on the keyboard until it magically fixes a bug: epr.adaptive.cs.unm.edu/about.html 21:15
That'll save me all kinds of time. 21:20
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dalek R: 564d25d | (Jay Emerson)++ | / (2 files):
Updated to allow compilation of scripts
 22:23
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whiteknight good evening, #parrot 23:23
kid51 whiteknight, good evening
whiteknight hello kid51
I got your emails. I didn't think those accounts looked suspicious at all
of course, it all depends what they do with it 23:24
kid51 We had one spam ticket over the weekend.
Those accounts did not supply a human name.
whiteknight yeah, and I shut down ticket creation again in response
kid51 okay, I did not know that. Thanks. 23:25
whiteknight we did make it a few days without any spam tickets, but any is too many
Felipe good evening 23:27
kid51 My approach is: When I get the new registration notification, I scan #parrot, parrot-dev, etc., so I can get a feel for the legitimacy of the registration. If there's any chance it's legit, I grant ticket creation/modification privileges.
Granted, that's a 2nd best approach. But it WFM.
whiteknight I was really hoping somebody might have found a capcha solution by now 23:28
the fact that we can't easily find such a thing, and a few other factors, really makes me worry that trac is not as actively developed as we might like
Felipe yeah :() 23:29
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Felipe Trac Spam Filtering is the one being used right now? 23:30
Coke has anyone been looking for a captcha solution?
cotto_work We're using a human-based solution.
whiteknight we're using the iron curtain solution 23:31
no tickets, period
Felipe trac.edgewall.org/wiki/SpamFilter
kid51 whiteknight: You turned off *all* ticket creation?
whiteknight kid51: No, only from the group of users that, I would hope, would have the most feedback for us 23:32
kid51 k
cotto_work What was the reason we turned off svn integration with trac? Doing so also disabled git integration. 23:34
whiteknight something something something with smolder
...if I remember correctly
dalek rrot: 0a84eb7 | Whiteknight++ | / (4 files):
Add a new IGLOBALS_LOADED_PBCS global to be a cache for load_bytecode_p_s. Add a ->path attr to packfile view to optionally hold the string path of the packfile, if it was loaded from a file with load_bytecode_p_s
 23:38
rrot: 5ef23c5 | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/packfileview.pmc:
get_string_native -> get_string. Why? LOLWTF, that's why.
23:39 theory joined
whiteknight src/pmc/packfileconstanttable.pmc: "If something goes wrong, blame NotFound." 23:41
that made me laugh. Excellent
kid51 whiteknight: Is this branch deletable? whiteknight/pbc_pbc 23:53
whiteknight I think i deleted it a few minutes ago
kid51 Hmm ... another case where 'git branch -a' shows branches which no longer exist 23:54
$ git branch -a | grep pbc_pbc
origin/whiteknight/pbc_pbc
whiteknight did you git pull?
kid51 Yes. Got "up to date" 23:55
dalek rrot/whiteknight/imcc_tag: 7fe5102 | Whiteknight++ | src/pmc/packfileconstanttable.pmc:
Update PackfileConstantTable PMC to allow for the new tags mechanism
 23:58

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