Parrot 3.9.0 "Archaeopteryx" | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot | #parrotsketch meeting Tuesday 19:30 UTC
Set by moderator on 19 October 2011.
cotto dukeleto, how's the git conf so far? 00:00
doug lea is here. It's weird. 00:03
kiss advice (for any x): every 6 months, try to teach it to someone who doesn't know it 00:15
There was also an entertaining talk about how it's impossible to microbenchmark in a way that avoids statistically meaningful non-determinism. 00:21
00:21 Coke joined
cotto one graph had 5-6 overlapping steady states 00:22
(though if it's 2x faster, it's 2x faster)
00:23 Coke joined
cotto www.cs.iastate.edu/~design/vmil/201...gram.shtml (see the microbenchmarking pdf) 00:27
whiteknight in perl5, is there a way to do s/// without modifying the string in place? 00:50
benabik my $copy = $str; $copy =~ s/pat/rep/ 00:51
whiteknight okay, that's not a reference copy?
00:51 nbrown joined
benabik I don't think so? 00:51
whiteknight whatever, I'll try it 00:52
benabik No, it copies the string.
whiteknight I can't find a gui tool that does batch conversions from .mov to .ogv, so I'm writing a small wrapper around ffmpeg 00:55
benabik Handbrake? 00:57
plobsing If you are using perl 5.14 there's s///r for non-destructive substitution. Otherwise a fairly common (used many times in parrot core) idiom is "(my $copy = $str) =~ s///". 01:01
dalek rrot: b1d625e | petdance++ | src/dynpmc/select.pmc:
fixed indentation and consted some vars
 01:56
rrot: e12d045 | petdance++ | include/parrot/packfile.h:
re-headerized
rrot: 29aefd9 | jkeenan++ | src/ (2 files):
[codingstd] Rebreak two lines to follow linelength standard.
rrot: ec17023 | jkeenan++ | / (2 files):
Merge branch 'master' of git@github.com:parrot/parrot
02:20 jlaire joined 03:13 preflex joined 04:09 dngor joined
cotto ~~ 04:37
dalek TT #2201 created by petdance++: This product has only a moose, not a pony 04:55
TT #2201: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2201
cotto I'm glad petdance++ hasn't become a troll. 05:03
05:07 wagle joined 05:12 SHODAN joined 05:14 alester joined
sorear alester: how much should I prioritize writing a dalek plugin for GitHub issues? 05:17
alester What is dalek? 05:21
Oh, IRC bot?
I don't know, but we'll have github issues pretty soon.
github.com/petdance/scraps/blob/master/tix 05:22
Now I just have to dump into Github format
07:48 mj41_nb joined 07:49 mj41 joined 08:10 jsut_ joined 08:18 lucian_ joined 08:27 perlite_ joined 08:30 contingencyplan joined 08:59 lucian joined
moritz fwiw I just tested rakudo on top of the green_threads branch, all tests PASS 10:14
... and it's slower than on master. 10:18
benabik moritz: How much slower? 1, 10, 100%? 10:32
moritz benabik: 6%. Just sent a mail to parrot-dev
lunch&
benabik moritz: Hm. That's LTA. I thought nine had pushed the no-overhead patch. Hope someone has the tuits to diagnose it. I have to do thesis work today. 10:36
10:45 ambs joined 10:51 smash joined
smash hello everyone 10:51
11:31 benabik joined 11:38 Psyche^ joined
benabik o/ #parrot 11:40
11:42 lucian_ joined 11:44 mtk joined 11:50 JimmyZ joined 12:05 lucian joined 12:07 p6eval joined 12:10 whiteknight joined 12:14 ambs joined, jsut joined
whiteknight good morning, #parrot 12:15
benabik morning, whiteknight
whiteknight hello benabik, how are you doing today? 12:16
benabik bleh. I dislike 6 AM.
whiteknight yeah, it's one of the worst of all the AMs 12:22
moritz my lovely daughter decided a few days ago that she wants to get up between 5 AM and 6 AM 12:23
and today I found out that she's just hungry, and will continue sleeping after she had her breakfast
so it's getting up at 5am, preparing food for her, feeding her and then straight back to bed 12:24
whiteknight ouch. What's she eating now? 12:25
moritz cereal pulp with fruits (for breakfast) 12:31
whiteknight oh, for my son we would have just jammed a bottle in his face and all gone back to bed 12:34
the gourmet fruit puree can wait until the sun comes up
moritz she has never liked bottles at all 12:36
12:55 bluescreen joined 13:07 preflex joined 13:11 pbaker joined
dalek kudo/nom: 481a027 | jnthn++ | src/ (4 files):
Give initialization of state variables START semantics.
 13:12
13:15 bluescreen joined
dalek kudo/nom: 3e8f571 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/SymbolTable.pm:
Make uninitialized int default to 0 and an uninitialized num default to NaN.
 13:47
13:55 lateau joined
lateau winxed —version 13:56
1.3.-1
benabik lateau: ?
Oh.
lateau ;) 13:57
benabik I think winxed uses -1 for "development version"
lateau i got it
benabik Might be nice to show 1.3-dev instead of 1.3.-1 though. :-D
lateau i think so :) 13:59
14:02 SHODAN joined 14:03 lucian joined 14:06 lucian_ joined 14:11 lateau joined 14:14 mj41 joined, mj41_nb joined
benabik Every time I discover a bit of winxed syntax, I go "that is both useful and should have been obvious." 14:25
(Today's discovery: int version[3])
Ack! 11k lines in winxed stage 1. 14:27
My winxed --version: Winxed 1.4.0-dev 14:33
14:35 lucian joined
JimmyZ more likes 6model in parrot :) 14:35
benabik JimmyZ: From hacking Rakudo, hacking on non-6model PMCs, or just in general? 14:36
JimmyZ: Or, more hopefully, working on adding 6model to core parrot?
;-)
JimmyZ porting 6model to core parrot, or PCC refactor, hehe 14:37
14:45 lucian joined
dalek kudo/nom: 9897b01 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
run new test file for native types
 15:08
TT #2199 closed by coke++: [PATCH] 3.9.0 Fails timer tests on NetBSD 5.1 15:09
TT #2199: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2199
15:19 jsut_ joined 15:40 dmalcolm joined
cotto ~~ 16:03
dukeleto ~~ 16:24
dalek kudo/nom: 3fb9155 | jnthn++ | src/binder/bind.c:
Fix a bug in the binder related to unboxing to native types. Also add a just-in-case check for something that should 'never happen'.
cotto hio dukeleto 16:25
dukeleto cotto: mornin'
dukeleto waves from the second day of the Git Together
cotto: how was SPLASH?
cotto dukeleto: pretty cool. I got a couple ideas and ran into tewk. 16:26
dukeleto that is awesome
benabik SPLASH? 16:27
cotto he says he's been keeping up with #ps but hasn't had tuits to do much
specifically, vmil (virtual machine and intermediate language workshop)
the dart talk was curious. Apparently they store a token stream and compile lazily, so there's no bytecode representation. 16:28
benabik O.o
cotto and the type system is more like a set of heuristics that attempt to be helpful 16:29
The first speaker said that they were trying to make something that'd be familiar to web developers. It was *really* hard not to shout "like javascript?". 16:31
to be fair, it doesn't look like it'd be a bad language, just unnecessary 16:32
benabik cotto: There's a lot of grumbling about the type system in PLT circles. They made the same mistakes as Java wrt generics.
NotFound cotto: or maybe "like winxed" ;)
cotto there was a group of plt hackers at the conference. 16:33
NotFound++
benabik NotFound: I meant Programming Language Theory, not PLT scheme, sorry.
cotto ah
lots of those too
benabik And I meant cotto, not NotFound. Bah.
cotto benabik: there's plenty to grumble about. They seem to be explicitly ignoring the nerds and going for the average developers. 16:34
benabik List<Car> l1 = new List<Car>(car, van, sports_car); List<Object> l2 = l1; l2.push(new Integer(2); l1.pop() // Explode
NotFound Some days ago I looked at a language mentioned in a web mentioned in some message, don't remember the name, that was another javascript-alike. Looks like a trend. 16:36
cotto try-dart-lang.appspot.com/
trend.set('winxed');
NotFound The funny part is that at the same time other people are trying to develop non-javascriptish languages for use in the browser.
benabik In-browser haskell. 16:37
dukeleto dart is looking to sway the people that think javascript is too hard
NotFound And coffeescript
And a lot others.
cotto I like coffeescript. It seems to have the right idea. 16:38
PerlJam cotto: me too
NotFound So maybe in a few years javascript-alike languages will be used everywhere... except in the browsers X-)
PerlJam cotto: although it seems a little behind the times in a few areas.
dukeleto we probably need to apply to Google Code-In soon 17:01
dukeleto is trying to not forget
Coke the tech teacher at my local middle/high school will appreciate that. 17:05
cotto github.com/blog/967-github-secrets 17:11
that's something I want to bring up at #ps
there are some significant changes this year
benabik cotto: github secrets?
cotto all of them 17:14
17:18 bluescreen joined 17:29 GodFather joined 17:35 ambs joined
dukeleto we need an ideas page to apply to GCI 17:36
dukeleto is filling out the form right now
benabik dukeleto++
What scale of project is GCI aiming for? 17:37
dukeleto github.com/parrot/parrot/wiki/Goog...Task-Ideas 17:38
benabik We have github.com/parrot/parrot/wiki/Projects
dukeleto benabik: small tasks that would take a crazy smart high-school student that has never touched parrot before a few hours or days to accomplish
this is the old page: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/GoogleC...n2010Tasks 17:40
trac.parrot.org uses an invalid security certificate.
The certificate expired on 11-09-05 12:54 AM. The current time is 11-10-25 10:40 AM.
(Error code: sec_error_expired_certificate) 17:41
BLARG
cotto one thing is that gci will require orgs to have >= 5 tasks in each category
that ui doesn't make sense for some projects didn't seem to be a big concern 17:42
code.google.com/opensource/gci/2011...index.html
also, tasks will be released in two sets, one at the beginning of the contest and one at the middle. 17:44
the idea is to keep orgs to catering to a particular class of student
that said, they'd be fine if we had a ridiculous number of tasks unevenly distributed across categories 17:45
dukeleto just migrated content to github.com/parrot/parrot/wiki/Goog...Task-Ideas 17:47
cotto note that this is what I heard from Carol (who's in charge of gci). I haven't found where it's spelled out online yet.
benabik Carol++
17:48 pbaker joined
dukeleto cotto: the >= 5 tasks is needed to get accepted 17:49
can i get some help adding tasks ideas?
the task template is on the above URL
cotto dukeleto: put it on the wi... nm
;)
for translations, we might have better luck focusing in a single language. 17:50
Coke I was unsatisfied with the translation stuff from last year. 17:53
cotto me too
I'm not 100% convinced that gci is the best use of our time this year, but if we want to do it, we can do better than we did last year. 17:54
dukeleto well, i just submitted parrot to GCI, so it's gonna happen :) 17:55
msg whiteknight what is your melange ID? Can I add you as the backup admin for Google Code-In ? 17:56
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
dukeleto our task page does not have enough tasks to actually get accepted, so we need to get that done Real Soon Now
18:02 benabik_ joined 18:47 Util joined 18:55 zpmorgan joined
NotFound Why you don't like -1 release number? 19:06
"Version numbers like 1.4.-1 are somewhat unexpected for users" -> but devel versions are not for users.
benabik NotFound: I wrote it up in response to lateau wondering why winxed --version gave a -1.
I don't feel strongly about it. 19:07
NotFound The answer is simple: -1 < any non-neagtive regular release number.
19:09 mj41 joined
cotto #ps in 21 19:09
19:09 mj41_nb joined 19:16 jsut joined 19:24 bubaflub joined
cotto #ps time! 19:31
19:36 whiteknight joined
whiteknight is #ps now? 19:36
cotto yup
19:38 SHODAN joined 19:52 nbrown joined
dukeleto crud. too busy for #ps 19:52
benabik dukeleto: Amusingly, in #ps we were just talking about how busy we all are. 19:53
20:02 alester joined
nine Too busy to even talk about beeing too busy... Busyness on another level :) 20:11
benabik cotto: We might want to keep our reference documentation in github pages rather than wiki. Wiki may be good for intro/general user docs so people can update them as needed. 20:12
dalek rrot: 65e6ab7 | NotFound++ | src/pmc/bytebuffer.pmc:
don't store value of strstart in ByteBuffer, get it in each usage - issue 182
 20:14
whiteknight benabik: it's trivial to mirror docs between the two formats 20:15
benabik: they're both git repos. the github pages could be exactly the same stuff, included into pages with formatting 20:16
benabik whiteknight: Do we want to replace the perldoc in .ops and .pmc files with the contents of the gh wiki?
whiteknight: Moving the contents of doc/ into the wiki, possibly with mirroring, might be useful though. 20:19
20:19 SHODAN joined
benabik likes having as few copies of things around as possible. Copying things is just asking for it to get out of sync. 20:19
NotFound whiteknight: Have you seen winxed issue 12?
nine likes having docs with the code 20:20
makes grepping useful
whiteknight NotFound: no. I'll look at it now 20:23
nine whiteknight: have you had time to look at the green_threads merge issue?
whiteknight nine: no, I've been hella busy
nine: but I'll devote some time to it tonight
NotFound: looks like he's missing a string() cast 20:24
NotFound whiteknight: the problem is that currently string + var is interpreted as var(string) + var, not as string concat. I'm not sure if this is the more intuitive semantic. 20:25
whiteknight NotFound: the rules are self-consistent, but they are different from JavaScript and Perl
NotFound++ on #182 fix
GH #182 20:26
how are we referring to Gh tickets now?
benabik Github itself recognizes gh-182
Or just #182
(In comments and commit messags)
whiteknight gh-182 sounds good to me
eitherway, NotFound++
NotFound whiteknight: yes, and we risk to break things if changing. I think I'm going to close as not-a-bug. 20:27
nine I'll have a couple of hours for Parrot tomorrow
whiteknight NotFound: good plan
whiteknight has to sign off and go home now. Will look at nine++'s green_threads issue tonight
later
dalek p: 29d8aed | jnthn++ | tools/build/PARROT_REVISION:
Bump to a Parrot version with a fix for ByteBuffer segfaults, which caused programs using Buf to sometimes segfault.
 20:45
kudo/nom: 97aa736 | jnthn++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
Bump to latest NQP.
21:02 alester_ joined, alester__ joined
tadzik hello #parrots 21:05
benabik hellos tadziks
21:07 preflex joined
alester ok back 21:08
21:56 alester joined 22:21 soh_cah_toa joined 22:27 soh_cah_toa_ joined 22:52 mudkip joined 22:58 bubaflub joined 23:10 jsut_ joined 23:18 benabik joined

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!