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Parrot 5.2.0 "Stuffed Parrot" | parrot.org/ | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot | #parrotsketch meeting Tuesday 19:30 UTC Set by moderator on 2 April 2013. |
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| dalek | kudo/nom: 4109be8 | coke++ | INSTALL.txt: RT #76828 - document memory build requirements. |
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| rrot: 8874a86 | util++ | / (7 files): Prepare for the 5.3.0 release |
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| Util | Here come the drums. | 04:39 | |
| pmichaud | Util++ | 04:40 | |
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| myhrlin_ | W00tstock | 04:49 | |
| nice | |||
| moderator | Parrot 5.3.0 "W00tstock Parrot" | parrot.org/ | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot | #parrotsketch meeting Tuesday 19:30 UTC | 04:51 | |
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| yawnt | hai | 08:41 | |
| sorear | Heya. | 08:46 | |
| dalek | kudo/nom: 24532ac | (Brent Laabs)++ | src/core/IO.pm: inch IO::Path closer to the recent spec changes (path, volume, Str) |
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| kudo/nom: 02b7524 | moritz++ | src/core/IO.pm: Merge pull request #126 from labster/nom inch IO::Path closer to the recent spec changes (path, volume, Str) |
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| dalek | kudo/nom: c946d0f | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/Perl6/ (3 files): bring runtime importation closer to spec This enables: require PATH <imports> require $varibale <imports>, and require ModuleName:file(PATH) <imports>. So a given path or variable is always treated as a filename, and a module name can be specified to ease importing. |
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| dalek | kudo/nom: c39b887 | moritz++ | src/core/Mu.pm: remove reporting of variable name from uninit warnings they produced too many false positives |
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| kudo/nom: f3c3feb | moritz++ | t/spectest.data: track deletion of test file |
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| tangentstorm wonders what it would take to really achieve cross-language interop. | 17:37 | ||
| equi4.com/minotaur/minotaur.html was another project with these ambitions from around the dawn of parrot. | 17:42 | ||
| It uses forth to allow perl, python, and tcl to integrate. | 17:43 | ||
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| rurban | tangentstorm: maybe parrot | 18:30 | |
| tangentstorm | haha.. parrot isn't an answer to the problem yet, unfortunately. i'm asking what would have to be done to parrot to get it to that point. | 18:31 | |
| rurban | but this forth attempt surely looks convincing. | ||
| parrot is at that point already | 18:32 | ||
| it's just that nobody wants to use it, because its not complete and too slow | |||
| tangentstorm | Okay, I have somewhere around 4-5 bodies of code that I'm trying to integrate, which use in java, python, javascript/coffeescript, pascal... And I'll probably want to merge in some stuff in perls 5 and 6, c, c++, and retro soon (retro being a forth dialect) | 18:34 | |
| Can parrot do that? | |||
| rurban | java, pascal not, the rest propably | 18:35 | |
| parrot is just the toolkit for external cross-langs | |||
| tangentstorm | I'm skeptical. | ||
| Especially about python on parrot, having attempted the task myself in the past... | 18:36 | ||
| And also I asked about in here the other day. | 18:37 | ||
| rurban | python = pynie, github.com/parrot/ecmascript is a bit old. | ||
| it depends how much you need of it | |||
| tangentstorm looks through the pynie source | 18:40 | ||
| Hm. Pirate actually does some of the stuff that pynie doesn't do yet. | |||
| Like list comprehensions. | |||
| It's cool that that objects are actually written in PIR though. | 18:41 | ||
| rurban | This looks like a good overview of both: intertwingly.net/blog/1870.html | 18:45 | |
| tangentstorm | "Michal Wallace has given me commit access to Pirate," | 18:46 | |
| <- Michal Wallace :) | |||
| Sam came through and did a bunch of refactorings, and contributed some PMCs written in C. | 18:47 | ||
| Pynie seems to be a reboot by allison and pmichaud based on the newer parrot compiler tools. | 18:48 | ||
| Coke | which are, no doubt, already out of date. | ||
| (snark based on several ground up rewrites of partcl) | |||
| rurban | yeah, long long time ago | ||
| tangentstorm | Dan Sugalski also made a version early on. He had a bet with GvR that parrot would run faster than python. His approach was based on translating the python bytecode. | 18:49 | |
| Coke | Yes, and he ate a pie for his hubris. ;) | 18:50 | |
| rurban | :) | ||
| tangentstorm | Pirate uses the AST provided by python. | ||
| yeah | |||
| Coke | I was never able to partcl anywhere NEAR tcl speeds. | ||
| rurban | wonder how he came up with his benchmark projections | 18:51 | |
| tangentstorm | The basic idea was that register machines in general should be faster than stack machines. | ||
| tangentstorm looks at partcl | 18:52 | ||
| Coke | Much hay was made of that, yes. | ||
| tangentstorm: I have not touched it seriously in years now, apologies for any dust you find. | |||
| tangentstorm | It's okay, pirate is still in a CVS repository. :) | ||
| Does anyone have an example of writing code in PAST somewhere? | 18:55 | ||
| rurban | register machines yes. cps hmmm... | ||
| tangentstorm thinks PAST isn't what he thought it was. | 18:56 | ||
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| allison | tangentstorm: yes, Pynie and Pirate are both out of date | 18:56 | |
| tangentstorm | <- author of pirate :) | ||
| allison | ah, is this a new pirate? | 18:57 | |
| tangentstorm | no it's an old pirate | ||
| allison | well, feel free to kidnap any bits of Pynie that are useful in a reboot :) | ||
| tangentstorm | somebody made a pirate for the PIR language but it was also the name of a python-to-parrot compiler | 18:58 | |
| pirate.he.sabren.com/viewvc.cgi/pirate/ | |||
| it was also the name of the original lua->parrot compiler by klaas-jan stol, but he renamed his | 18:59 | ||
| allison | maybe it's time for a new name :) | ||
| there's also Puffin github.com/lucian1900/puffin | 19:00 | ||
| which is probably the most modern out of all of them | |||
| tangentstorm | using winxed.. interesting. | ||
| hmm... looks like there's another pascal compiler called PAPAgei listed on trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/AbandonedLanguages but google's not being helpful with the source... anyone know where it is? | 19:06 | ||
| porcupine only implements a few bits and pieces. | |||
| rurban | targetting pascal looks real trivial though. looks like a two days job | 19:11 | |
| tangentstorm | hmm.. well there's ISO pascal and then there's the pascal people actually use, which is delphi/object pascal. | 19:12 | |
| which has generics, classes, units, iterators, lambdas, etc... | |||
| rurban | And the Borland had a much better library | ||
| tangentstorm | Yeah but the library is all written in pascal thanks to freepascal.org/ | 19:17 | |
| Coke | tangentstorm: if I ever restart partcl AGAIN, I will consider using winxed. | 19:32 | |
| but my current effort is using rakudo's nqp. | |||
| (but then I'm targetting nqp, not parrot. but it's definitely more pleasant for me to write nqp that it was to write PIR) | 19:33 | ||
| *than | |||
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| gtodd | Coke: is winxed errm "completed" i.e. not actively developed but not needing development | 20:10 | |
| Coke | gtodd: It's not my project. I can't answer that question. (it's an exterior project that parrot snapshotted for internal use when it was usable.) | 20:12 | |
| (much like parrot-nqp) | |||
| gtodd | ah ok so it's "inside" parrot | 20:13 | |
| hmmm winxed.org | |||
| heh | |||
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| dalek | p/qrpa_experiment: d0af2bb | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/6model/serialization.c: add serialisation for qrpa |
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| p/qrpa_experiment: af36e92 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/ (12 files): search&replace nqp::list -> nqp::qlist; change .push to nqp::push etc |
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| Alxandr | Hello. I've been considering trying to develop a language for the Parrot VM, and I'm just wondering, what languages can said language be developed in? (like C/python/java/whatever) | 21:57 | |
| masak | you could do it in nqp. | 21:58 | |
| Tene | Alxandr: As long as you're producing Parrot bytecode, you can produce it in any language you like; however, there aren't many facilities for producing parrot bytecode from non-parrot languages. The best you'll get conveniently from another language is generating an intermediary language, like PIR, which has some problems. | ||
| Most language development on Parrot is done from nqp or winxed, I believe. | 21:59 | ||
| I don't think there are any others these days. | |||
| Alxandr | Cause, I tried the tutorial found somwhere on the parrot-site (can't recall where, it starts by calling a perl-script that generates the "sceleton" for your compiler), and I had problem getting even basic stuff working | 22:01 | |
| And I have no experience with perl, so I had no idea what the errors I was getting was either. | |||
| And it was sort of ... discurraging when I couldn't even get a simple AST-parser to work -.- | 22:02 | ||
| But in other words, there are no bindings to generate PAST in non parrot-languages like C? | 22:07 | ||
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| Alxandr | winxed seems to be written in C++ though | 22:11 | |
| dalek | p/qrpa_experiment: 2102ba9 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/ (5 files): more list -> qlist |
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| p/qrpa_experiment: 491eec9 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/ (6 files): so many search and replace. probably too many. |
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