Devel: 0.6.1 | parrotcode.org/ | 696 new/open tix
Set by moderator on 17 May 2008.
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Tene Eevee: I was showering. Did your patch get committed? 00:02
Eevee svn bot hasn't said anything so I assume not. but give me a sec, fixing for empty list
Tene kk
Eevee jonathan: hm. with get_hll_global 'Failure', "<>.reduce({ ... })" stringifies to 'Failure' whereas rakudo's current undef stringifies to '' (but .WHAT is still Failure) 00:05
Tene I'll check back in 5.
pmichaud correct, because Failure is the protoobject
try $P0 = get_hll_global 'Failure'; $P1 = $P0.'new'() 00:06
that creates a new Failure object from the proto
Eevee ah. get_hll_global sounded like it grabbed a singleton or something. okay 00:07
pmichaud well, it does grab a singleton... unfortunately it's a singleton protoobject. :-)
I don't know if we have a singleton Failure non-protoobject lying about. Perhaps we should.
Eevee it made sense 00:08
pmichaud come to think of it, much of Rakudo is still using Undef so it probably wouldn't hurt to use Undef for now if you prefer that.
or even just new 'Failure'
(I'm assuming 'Failure' is registered as a class, which it may not be.)
so, feel free to just go with new 'Undef' -- and we can fix it later 00:09
Eevee good old "try everything until one works" approach
just trying to reduce the amount of fixing-it-later that will be necessary 00:10
pmichaud well, there's a fair amount of that no matter what we do at this point. :-)
Eevee yeah, Failure's not a class. will go with new 'Undef', and change the undef()s in here so at least they work 00:11
Tene: pastebin.com/d5df8ad8d <>.reduce() and <>.pop() work now 00:14
particle japhb, pmichaud: look at the Exporter PMC, it was designed for hll exporting, has a flexible, well-defined api, and should be subclassable in c and pir
picnic dinner &
pmichaud particle: yes, but afaict Exporter doesn't actually solve the issues I brought up earlier. 00:15
i.e., it handles the mechanics of exporting symbols, but not the conventions.
particle subclass it to handle the conventions 00:16
pmichaud no, that's not the issue.
we want more than just export, we also want to be able to load modules.
I don't think Exporter should do that.
as loading a module is a very hll-specific item.
particle ah, ok. then i suggest a Loader PMC
pmichaud nah, we're just going to make a method on the HLLCompiler object 00:17
it doesn't need to be in C
hllcompiler.'load_module'('name', args) 00:18
Eevee Tene, pmichaud: wouldn't fixing pointy blocks only take this? seems to work without breaking ones with param lists: pastebin.com/d3be0b70f
pmichaud Eevee: that's part of it. Rakudo has an issue that it sometimes confuses -> with prefix:- 00:19
i.e., it's also a parsing issue.
Eevee well, at least the problem with -> { foo($_) }
particle really gone & 00:20
pmichaud later, enjoy picnic!
Eevee $ ../../parrot perl6.pbc -e 'say <1 2 3>.grep(<-> { $_ % 2 })'
13
pmichaud has a soccer game in 40 mins.
jonathan has bed in less than that 00:22
pmichaud and laptop is out of power. 00:33
later, all.
Eevee seeya 00:34
Tene Eevee: looks like that's at least a big part of it. I'll commit that and then look at reduce and pop 01:03
Eevee thanks 01:04
jonathan sleeps
night all
Tene Man, typing is weird when my fingers are all sticky. My girl had me helping her with some craft project and now my hands are covered with some weird adhesive.
davidfetter is it that spray adhesive? 01:07
Tene nah, some weird sticky wax. 01:08
... why am I compiling on the slow box?
davidfetter finds this a strange juxtaposition, but probably because he thinks of ski- and other lubricating waxes 01:09
Eevee Tene: dramatic effect?
Tene Eevee: another simple patch would be adding an optional test param to List::uniq 01:16
Eevee ah, will have a look 01:18
dalek r27606 | tene++ | trunk: 01:20
: [rakudo]
: * Pointy blocks no longer set a signature when there are no params.
: * List::reduce
: * Eevee++
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27606
Eevee woo, I am useful
Tene That should be a pretty trivial patch, I was just too lazy to look up the optional param syntax stuff 01:21
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Tene Eevee: tests for this stuff would be good too. 01:48
Eevee quite. I have pugs commit access 01:49
ah, there's already a reduce.t, it just doesn't parse 01:51
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Tene Eevee: reduce the parse fail to a minimal example 01:58
and then show me
(or fix it yourself if you'd like :)
Eevee it's at the colon in 'reduce { ... }: @array' 02:01
which I assume is more of a "not done" than "broken"
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Tene I'm not sure exactly what that is. 02:12
one of the weird invocant syntaxes? 02:13
Eevee yeah, indirect object syntax. method $obj: @args; 02:17
why it's written to use the *block* as the object, I don't know
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Tene Yeah, that looks suspicious to me, unless blocks have a reduce method too. 02:38
Or, is MMD relevant? Is MMD insensitive to the order of arguments?
are 02:39
multi sub t ( Foo $x, Bar $y ) { ... }
multi sub t ( Bar $x, Foo $y ) { ... }
different?
purl different is probably good
Tene purl: forget different
purl Tene: I forgot different
Eevee hm, I don't know. I would think so 02:40
Tene Yeah, that would surprise me too. 02:41
Eevee perlcabal.org/syn/S06.html#Invocant_parameters third set of code examples.. 02:42
rationale might be reduce {...}: @array -> {...}.reduce(@array) -> reduce({...}, @array)
or maybe colon really does reduce to comma if indirect syntax doesn't work 02:43
this test also has "{ ... }.reduce: @array"
Tene Yeah, that looks like blocks have a reduce method too. 02:46
If so, those should be in their own test.
refactoring! 02:47
purl refactoring is st-www.cs.uiuc.edu/users/brant/Refactory/ or st-www.cs.uiuc.edu/~droberts/tapos/TAPOS.htm or www.awl.com/cseng/titles/0-201-8954...toring.htm or Martin Fowler and www.refactoring.com/ or what you put on your time card when you're really on IRC. or search.cpan.org/~swalters/Object-Pe...atterns.pm or gives you a fuzzy feeling
Eevee if so, it's not in the spec
also having three different reduce()s is possibly a bit overboard
actually, List::uniq isn't in S29 either 02:48
Tene "The colon is just a special form of the comma, and has the same precedence" 02:50
Eevee "{ ... }.reduce: @array" still doesn't make sense then
$obj.method, @args?
Tene That's a different kind of colon. :) 02:51
foo: ...
is the same as
foo( ... )
Eevee aha, no method calls without parens? 02:52
Tene right
parens or :
Eevee okay, that makes a bit more sense then 02:53
Tene Oh, you didn't create the sub form of reduce in that patch.
Where's 'reduce' specced?
Ah, S29 02:54
Eevee perlcabal.org/syn/S29.html#reduce
yes
so yes needs a sub form 02:55
Tene the sub form takes Code first. 02:56
and the invocant form first tries method dispatch and if that doesn't work, looks for a normal sub
so it doesn't need to be a Code method.
Eevee right: <Eevee> rationale might be reduce {...}: @array -> {...}.reduce(@array) -> reduce({...}, @array)
Tene Right.
Do you have any particular desire to write the sub version, or should i just do it? 02:57
Eevee just wasn't sure if the syntax was meant to chain like that
Tene According to S06, it is.
Eevee it's trivial, so probably easier for you if you write it
Tene Hm. If it's slurpy, it won't be a List. 03:01
Eevee oh, wait. will it be a ResizeablePMCArray?
Tene yeah
Eevee sub grep and some others don't work for the same reason 03:03
mentioned it earlier, and: <pmichaud> hopefully this will be fixed when we do .HLL mapping
dalek r27607 | tene++ | trunk:
: [rakudo]
: * sub form of reduce
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27607
Tene For now we could manually construct a List from the resizablepmcarray 03:04
call constructor, that is
anyway, dinner now.
dalek r27608 | rgrjr++ | trunk: 03:06
: [DOCS]
: * docs/pdds/draft/pdd19_pir.pod:
: + Expand the documentation of :immediate by hijacking the revcomp.pir
: example, which illustrates a hidden feature. Expand :postcomp
: slightly to match.
: + Also refine the descriptions of :main, :init, and :load.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27608
Eevee okay, think I've played with rakudo enough for the moment.. doctor who taking priority 03:07
Tene sweet 03:13
japhb nopaste? 03:30
purl rumour has it nopaste is at nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or rafb.net/paste or paste.husk.org/ or poundperl.pastebin.com/ or paste.scsys.co.uk/ or don't bother me while I'm eating
japhb can't wait for the next season of Dr. Who to come out on DVD ... 03:55
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bacek hi there 04:02
hello. I've got another stupid question: why 'cmp pmc1, pmc2' always returns -1? 04:03
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bacek hello. I've got another stupid question: why 'cmp pmc1, pmc2' always returns -1? 04:04
oops. sorry for spam...
pmichaud it depends on what pmc1 and pmc2 are 04:20
easy way to construct a List is to call list() 04:22
particle wishes he had more time this weekend for rakudo, but building a deck takes lots of time... 04:30
movie night &
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pmichaud I'm spending lots of time on it this weekend, but wish I had more. 04:33
time is definitely my number one blocker at the moment. Either that or coding speed.
Tene particle: "a deck"? 04:38
dalek r27609 | pmichaud++ | p6object: 04:49
: [p6object]:
: * Add P6object.pbc into root makefile.
: * Set properties on files.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27609
r27610 | pmichaud++ | p6object: 04:50
: [p6object]:
: * Have p6object.t load P6object.pbc instead of P6object.pir.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27610
r27611 | pmichaud++ | p6object: 04:52
: [p6object]:
: * Add some documentation to P6object.pir .
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27611
PerlJam Good evening. 05:01
How did the bug hunt go?
pmichaud good for me -- I found a few and got them closed.
mostly I've been doing devel work today, though. 05:02
PerlJam looks like bernhard and fperrad have been busy updating plumhead and lua too (reading the log now) 05:03
And I have to say that I'm always amazed and very happy when I see chromatic do something like "16.23% improvement in the Rakudo-building benchmark" 05:05
chromatic++
pmichaud I'm surprised at how much GC is a factor.
PerlJam really? Why's that? 05:06
pmichaud I knew GC was a factor -- I just didn't think it was as big as it's turning out to be. 05:07
I mean, when a 3-line change results in a 20% speed improvement... well, something's weird there. :-)
PerlJam GC is pervasive; seems to me like it would be the biggest factor.
pmichaud yeah, I suppose so. 05:08
anyway, I agree. chromatic++
actually, I'm quite pleased and impressed with all of the contributors we've had recently
PerlJam Jonathan++ is amazing too :) 05:09
pmichaud It's been very good to see things like .* implemented, and placeholder vars
and Eevee's recent contribution of .reduce was a very pleasant surprise 05:10
PerlJam heh, I was just looking at that
When's the next release? 05:13
pmichaud Tuesday.
purl i think tuesday is pick-on-purl day or ask us to give you the syntax of perldoc -f day or us.imdb.com/Title?0064471 or little-tolerance-for-stupidness day or devoice dynweb at will day or love masque day or random body mods day or I'll-use-colloquialisms-if-I-wanna day or FAQ day. But then so is every other day. or overbearing sexual reference day. (NO, not SOFT references.) or homoerotica day or see tuesday2
PerlJam pm: What else have you been up to lately? And what's this Solstice framework I see you're talking about at yapc? :) 05:16
pmichaud I've been mainly rakudo and parrot hacking all week.
and begrudging sleep because it takes away from my rakudo and parrot hacking. 05:17
other than that, just planning trips and vacations. It's going to be a very busy summer. :-)
and Solstice isn't me (but I think you knew that). 05:19
oooh, one week to get my YAPC::EU submission in :-) 05:20
.....30 minutes?!?!?
how am I supposed to do a talk in just 30 minutes?
PerlJam talk real fast 05:21
pmichaud maybe I'll do talks as part 1, part 2, etc :-)
PerlJam You could do a mix of Bob Dylan and the Takahashi method of presentation. You wouldn't even have to speak, just flip through slides. 05:22
Dr. Seuss might be funnier though :)
dalek r27612 | pmichaud++ | p6object: 05:25
: [p6object]:
: * Allow new_class method to create classes with multiple parent classes.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27612
pmichaud found another bug. :-) 05:33
PerlJam I thought bug day was about squashing them, not finding them :) 05:35
pmichaud it's both. :-) 05:36
but I'm working on something else at the moment, so I'll just file my ticket and move on.
PerlJam hmm. interesting. "git svn rebase" says it's up to date, but I've only got to r27608 05:42
obra 3
pmichaud 2
1 05:43
PerlJam 0
pmichaud *
(whatever.)
PerlJam -Inf
Eevee okay, I have to know 05:46
purl, tuesday2?
purl tuesday2 is Beat-the-fuck-out-of-{coworker,client}-day or kick Yaakov day or not kick dynweb day or free pr0n day
Eevee and a thrilling conclusion. good to know not everything that happens on tuesday is terrible
pmichaud purl, tuesday is also #parrotsketch day. 05:47
purl that is too long, pmichaud
pmichaud aha. tuesday is also too long, apparently.
Eevee I was about to say you should add that to tuesday
but tuesday is too long.. so you'd have to add it to tuesday2.. and then it would be wrong.. 05:48
pmichaud I guess purl has outsmarted us once again. 05:50
argggh. I really want to stay up and code more, but I'm falling asleep. :-( 05:54
guess I'd better sleep -- sleepy code is often not good code. 05:55
PerlJam pm: nap, get up early and code some more.
pmichaud I pretty much need to dedicate tomorrow to finishing grading for my classes.
spinclad just relieved purl of 'correct.' and 'sounds good.' responses. key was 'forget correct. ' <- the final space. 05:56
pmichaud really? excellent!
pmichaud tests.
correct.
yay!!!!!
purl beats pmichaud to a pulp
pmichaud 05:50 <pmichaud> I guess purl has outsmarted us once again. 05:57
spinclad, thanks a lot for finding that. It's been bugging me and jonathan (as you undoubtedly saw) 05:58
okay, time for sleep. be back tomorrow sometime 05:59
Eevee night
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spinclad pmichaud, my pleasure. been bugging me a lot, too. 06:16
(and now that i'm caught up to thistime): 06:17
.oO { PAST::Var.new( :name('xyz'), :scope('register'), :register_class('int'), :isdecl(1) ) # generates C< .local int xyz > } Oo.
06:57 IllvilJa joined
Zaba_ hmm 08:12
seems like some svn metadata in trunk is messed
test fails
rafb.net/p/JgyRQf55.html
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dalek allison@perl.org | YAPC::NA::2008: 09:08
link: www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index...pc_na_2008
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lichtkind pmichaud: haha i offended you 30 sec ago muahaha 11:01
TimToady it's hard to offend most people at 4:00 11:04
well, I guess maybe it's 6:00 there...
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cognominal lunch time here 11:12
TimToady dinner time in ę—„ęœ¬ 11:13
jonathan Lunch time here too, apart from I only woke up an hour ago...
Apparently, the culture here suggests early mornings and un-late nights, though I've only lived here for a few days, so I guess I've got some de-Spanishing to go. 11:14
TimToady: When you get a spare moment, feedback on the "Private methods in classes and roles" thread would be helpful...I'm planning to look at the role composition stuff soonish. 11:15
(p6l thread) 11:16
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lichtkind TimToady: yes but by offended i mean calling him an camel, (i suggest him for white camel award) 11:19
cognominal Timtoady is there a way to add a variable to a typeclass? I wanted to be too smart and I would get something like : token attvalue { $delim= <['"]> <-[<&"$delim]>* $delim } 11:22
modulo the syntax of the expansion of the variable in the typeclass 11:23
heu, that would be : token attvalue { $delim= <['"]> <-[&"$delim]>* $delim } 11:24
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lichtkind there is a bug with the win32 build of parrot 12:12
readline5.dll not found 12:14
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TimToady cognominal: not currently, but you can always write [<!before $delim> .]* 14:09
and maybe <-$delim> could be made to mean the same thing 14:10
but usually you just do .*? $delim
jonathan TimToady: Giving a Perl 6 talk soonish that will have some theory-ish folks there, and have just been playing with doing dependent types in Perl 6. That is, types that depend on their values. 14:14
Perl 6 is wonderful for this because of "subset" types or especially anonymous ones. 14:15
I've just written this:
sub add_all(List where { our $len = $^xs.elems; 1 } $a, List where { our $len == $^xs.elems } $b) { }
Which type-checks to make sure that you passed two lists of the same length.
However, it's not really right; using "our" means this won't work out with recursive calls or in multi-threaded environments. 14:16
Using "my" won't work as that scopes the variable inside the block.
I think "temp" will have the same issue.
Is there something I should be using here?
cognominal TimToady, thx. anyway it easier to do a | (or) to get separately the simple and double quoted stuff. 14:17
TimToady jonathan: why not just List $b where { $a.elems == $b.elems } 14:18
jonathan Oh! 14:19
Yes. :-)
Thanks. Brain only half-functioning today.
TimToady mine's kinda in sideways at the moment...
long 2nd day at the hackthon plus residual jetlag 14:20
I'm sure the sake has nothing to do with it. :)
jonathan :-) 14:21
pmichaud ....someone please talk me out of adding protoregexes to PGE :-|
(just figured out a relatively easy way to do it.)
jonathan pmichaud: Is it hard?
Ah, no.
:-)
pmichaud I don't think it'll be that hard, but it requires refactoring a bunch of PGE stuff (and perhaps languages that rely on it) 14:22
cognominal what is the standard way of calling a same named method in a parent class. Does this work for grammars?
jonathan Well, it gives you a COOL thing to blog about.
pmichaud cognominal: at present I don't know that there is a way to call same-named method in a parent class
jonathan cognominal: I *think* nextwith
Maybe...
pmichaud cognominal: if you know the identity of the parent class, it can be done as a sub call 14:23
$P0 = get_global ['ParentClass'], 'methodname'
$P0(self, args)
jonathan: yes, it would give me a COOL thing to blog about. 14:24
jonathan Do it! Do it!
pmichaud well, I doubt I'd be able to do it in time for the release (or that that would be a good idea), so it'll be branch work for a bit
jonathan Yes, I suggest maybe do it in a seperate branch to the protoobject stuff? 14:25
pmichaud on the plus side, it could really speed up parsing
jonathan You're making it real hard for me to talk you out of this.
pmichaud it wouldn't be full ltm yet, but it would allow us to get rid of rule statement { <for_statement> | <if_statement> | <while_statement> | ... }
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jonathan Nice 14:26
pmichaud as well as
purl as well as is, like, entirely self-organizing
jonathan purl forget as well as
purl jonathan: I forgot as well as
TimToady that's more or less what I just hacked into STD using Moose last night
ambs waves 14:27
pmichaud I'm only half-joking about putting protoregexes into PGE -- it's just that I have a bunch of other "high-priority" things to implement as well
jonathan Too many high-pirority things. :-)
pmichaud yes, it'd be a separate branch from p6object -- I'd want to get p6object finished first 14:28
but I'm also having a major re-think about how PGE handles grammars
although I think that fixing the grammar stuff would be somewhat less intrusive than protoregexes
actually, if I get the grammar stuff in place, then protoregexes aren't so much of a pain on external systems 14:29
hrm.
jonathan It may be better to do intrusive stuff earlier, and further back from a release.
pmichaud unfortunately I *should* be grading papers at the moment.
jonathan Ah, ugh.
pmichaud oh well, after today (tomorrow?) I'll be done with that job and can focus full-time on rakudo/parrot. 14:30
jonathan I *should* be writing slides, instead I'm playing with dependant types and being happy that Rakudo kinda does 'em.
pmichaud TimToady: I know people probably tell you this all the time, but Perl 6 (the design/spec) is just incredibly awesome. 14:31
jonathan Admittedly, I started doing that after I was planning the types section of my talk and thought, "hey..."
pmichaud jonathan: yes, I had a similar problem. I started cleaning up a few other things in PGE and then thought "hey...."
jonathan I'm vaguely tempted to put return type checks in. 14:32
pmichaud eek! can I at least implement 'return' first? ;-)
TimToady well, given we've been thinking about it for close onto 8 years, I'd hope it has a few nice features in it by now. :)
pmichaud or you can, if you wish. :-P
jonathan I kinda wanted that in first, so I didn't have to re-do whatever I do now. ;-)
TimToady me, I *should* go to sleep now.
and in fact, I don't think I have much of a choice, if I don't want to drool into my keyboard. 14:33
pmichaud sometime this week I also need to get talk proposals into YAPC::EU. Although how I'm going to make a talk fit in 30 mins... I don't know. :-)
TimToady aims head at pillows &
pmichaud sleep well, TimToady
jonathan enjoy sleep :-) 14:34
TimToady hopes not to notice whether he is enjoying sleep...
pmichaud jonathan: did you notice that spinclad++ got rid of the "sounds good." reply from purl?
jonathan pmichaud: Yeah, I saw that in backscroll!
DietCoke sounds good.
jonathan Speakers so loud that they blow womens clothing off!
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jonathan Er, I mean, spinclad++ 14:35
pmichaud: 30 minutes isn't so short...I implemented and checked in "given" in a lightning talk (5 minutes) once... ;-) 14:36
I'm going to submit two: one on Perl 6 OO, one on Perl 6 types. 14:37
pmichaud for YAPC::EU?
jonathan Yes.
pmichaud Sounds good.
:-)
jonathan Oh, on the Pittsburgh Perl Workshop
pmichaud I'll do one for Rakudo Perl and one for PCT.
jonathan I can't make it. :-( I'd already agreed to go to another workshop. On the same date. 14:38
pmichaud But I'm thinking of having part1/part2 for one of the talks.
no problem on PPW.
jonathan Also, there is talk of a post-YAPC::EU hackathon being organized in Sweden
Just over the border.
pmichaud on mailing list there was discussion of hackathon day before and day after YAPC::EU. Is this in addition to that?
ambs jonathan, don't you come to PPW?
:D 14:39
jonathan ambs: When is that one?
I'm doing FPW and NPW this month!
ambs 6 and 7 June
we have Daniel talking on SMOP and smash talking a little on Parrot
would love that have some more on parrot :)
or Perl 6
pmichaud wants to go to FPW, NPW, PtPW
jonathan It's not that I wouldn't *like* to come, but I'd like to go to pretty much every Perl event going. 14:40
ambs jonathan, hehehe
jonathan It'd make it the third weekend running when I was at a workshop.
cognominal being decentralised, fpw have few talkers so half of it will be about parrot, rakudo, pct and Perl 6 14:41
thx to jonathan++
jonathan cognominal: Yeah, I've started on my two hour talk!
pmichaud: I think this is maybe in addition, it's not in Copenhagen...let me try and find out some more. 14:42
cognominal jonathan, I am still chasing a room for you in the Pastelier
jonathan cognominal: thanks
cognominal this would be nice for you to be in the same hotel than most of people 14:43
jonathan (having somewhere to sleep)++
cognominal I even know one who choosed the camping (or is camping a faux-ami) 14:44
jonathan Camping is great fun, in good weather. 14:45
And great un-fun, in un-good weather.
pmichaud for YAPC::EU I'll already be away from home from Aug 11-17, so I don't know how many more days I can tack onto that trip. 14:46
cognominal and I don't know if there is nearby power plugs.
pmichaud although there's also talk of a post-YAPC::EU excursion to Legoland... :-) 14:47
jonathan Legoland++
cognominal: Oh yeah! Need power! No power, no code. :-O 14:48
cognominal if someone commented and applied #52276, I would be motivated to do the hash composer
allison Legoland++
ambs LegoLand++ 14:49
jonathan That said, I should probably get plenty of hacking done at FPW during the day, when I'm not giving talks. Since I won't understand anyone else's. ;-)
allison: You coming to YAPC::EU?
ambs not sure if I will be able to go, but hope so
jonathan, hope so :)
DietCoke going to yapc::eu?
purl well, going to yapc::eu is (: going to YAPC::EU 2007) or joel, $joel->gf
pmichaud is it possible for a class to override the 'name' vtable entry?
DietCoke going to yapc::na?
purl going to yapc::na is, like, particle, Coke, cotto, rjbs, confound, hobbs or Alias or jjore
ambs going to YAPC::EU 2007?
purl going to YAPC::EU 2007 is probably TimToady, TheDamian, MJD, BooK, Maddingue, ambs, cog, toor, abeltje, Abigail & JettaMakka, Tux, markov, liz, woolfy, champs, Nicholas, acme, Ranguard, Barbie, pfig, davord, Trelane, Greg, DrHyde, Ovid, richardc, BinGOs, sjn, Juerd, dollarbar, dha, castaway, avar, mauke, kane & grum, ash or joel & lauren, beatnik, rGeoffrey, or not audreyt or mst or stevan and nothingmuch or abraxxa or gbjk
cognominal jonathan, but you will have to deal with me peering over your shoulder
DietCoke purl, you fickle collection of bits. 14:50
purl DietCoke: what?
pmichaud purl, going to yapc::na is also pmichaud
purl okay, pmichaud.
ambs purl, going to YAPC::EU 2007 is also smash
purl okay, ambs.
pmichaud ambs... time travel?
or history?
jonathan pmichaud: I've also been asked, if I'll go to a Hackathon in Russia sometime in autumn.
purl it has been said that history is rewritting itself in very bad episodes of Survivor...
pmichaud Russia would be interesting. 14:51
cognominal purl, going to YAPC::EU 2007 is also cognominal
purl that is too long, cognominal
jonathan pmichaud: Come! :-)
allison jonathan: yeah
cognominal I am built that way, purl
purl ...but cognominal is stef or ESR's padawan : "qd je comprend pas, je sors mon gun" or doesn't know shit about star Wars or crapulous...
ambs cognominal++ 14:52
jonathan pmichaud: It's just a long train journey for me, mind...or there's always Aeroflot. ;-)
pmichaud: Maybe there would be someone willing to sponsor you to come or something, if you were interested.
allison purl, going to yapc::na is also allison
purl okay, allison.
pmichaud I'm interested but it really depends on the timing.
jonathan It's a long flight for you too.
The timing is something that I/we can greatly influence. 14:53
pmichaud I already have a ton of travel.
allison purl, going to YAPC::EU 2008?
purl well, going to YAPC::EU 2008 is ambs, smash
allison purl, going to YAPC::EU 2008 is also allison
purl okay, allison.
pmichaud going to OSCON 2008? 14:54
cognominal purl, going to YAPC::EU 2008 is also cognominal
purl okay, cognominal.
pmichaud purl, going to SOCON 2008?
purl pmichaud: i haven't a clue
pmichaud purl, going to OSCON 2008?
purl pmichaud: i don't know
ambs stupid me.. 2008
cognominal I did not noticed that was 2007
jonathan pmichaud: Sure, well, I'll keep you updated on that one...I just got an email titled "Another crazy idea!" yesterday from a bunch of folks enjoying lunch at YAPC::Russia. :-)
ambs purl, going to YAPC::EU 2008 is also cog
purl okay, ambs.
ambs purl, going to YAPC::EU 2008 is also root
purl okay, ambs.
pmichaud purl, going to YAPC::EU 2008 is also pmichaud
purl okay, pmichaud.
ambs no, going to yapc::eu is (: going to YAPC::EU 2008) 14:55
purl okay, ambs.
ambs there!
thanks, alisson, for noticing year problem :)
jonathan nopaste? 14:56
purl i guess nopaste is at nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or rafb.net/paste or paste.husk.org/ or poundperl.pastebin.com/ or paste.scsys.co.uk/ or don't bother me while I'm eating
pmichaud so far my travel for 2008 looks like: Fossil Rim, YAPC::NA, Northern Calif, OSCON, YAPC::EU, and Pittsburgh Perl Workshop
oh, and Hawai'i between OSCON and YAPC::EU
(some are vactions, some are conferences)
*vacations 14:57
nopaste "jonathan" at 85.216.151.226 pasted "plan for advanced, trying to get your head around Perl 6 style talk - any comments?" (49 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/13005
jonathan That's an outline of a talk I'm planning to give at the Nordic Perl Workshop, to an audience with some more theory-ish, academic-ish folks in it.
pmichaud In p6object I actually have HOW/WHAT transposed
jonathan It's marked as advanced rather than beginners talk. 14:58
pmichaud On an instance, .WHAT actually redispatches to .HOW.WHAT
jonathan Oh!
pmichaud that turns out to be far simpler to manage.
jonathan I think you're doing it right, good catch
pmichaud and it means that protoobjects continue to be lighter-weight and don't require any additional attributes. 14:59
jonathan *nod*
I think S12 even says somewhere that all meta-programming is done through HOW.
pmichaud I really wish I could do per-object role composition
14:59 AndyA joined
jonathan Like in the "but" operator? 14:59
pmichaud partially -- mainly so that I don't have to create a separate class for protoobjects 15:00
jonathan I think under the hood it will still really be a separate class.
pmichaud right now the separate-protoobject-class is causing a problem because the <typeof> opcode is returning an empty string for the name
$S0 = typeof object # works 15:01
$S0 = typeof protoobject # returns ''
and I can't seem to override the 'name' vtable method.
jonathan There is a name v-table method?
pmichaud yes.
That is what <typeof> calls, and it's also mentioned in docs/vtables.pod 15:02
jonathan Oh, yes.
You're right.
pmichaud I'm not sure why I can't override it though.
jonathan I've just looked at the source, and I know why. :-) 15:03
pmichaud bug? design?
where are you looking, so I can tag it for future reference in my head? 15:04
15:04 cognominal joined
allison bug. or, more accurately, not yet completed implementation 15:04
jonathan pmichaud: I'll implement it for you now, it should be a 5 minute job.
pmichaud oh, that would be a huge help, yes. 15:05
jonathan pmichaud: Did the talk outline look OK overall?
pmichaud oh, still looking.
(got distracted.)
jonathan :-)
pmichaud how long is the talk? 15:06
jonathan An hour. 15:07
purl an hour is half full! or long enough for lunch
pmichaud Looks like a great talk.
jonathan Cool, thanks.
pmichaud An hour should be about right for what you have.
jonathan I'm trying to give people more of the "big picture" view of the langauge. 15:08
pmichaud yes, the focus on mmd/types should be good for theory-ish/academic-ish folks.
is this purely Perl 6 or are you also going to mention Rakudo and what it has/doesn't have thus far? 15:09
jonathan Purely Perl 6. 15:10
I have a second talk the next day where I will talk about Rakudo.
I'm covering PCT a bit in the version of that at the Nordic Perl Workshop. 15:11
pmichaud excellent.
jonathan Probably less so at the French Perl Workshop because cognominal is already talking about PCT there.
cognominal that'a good,
jonathan My talk at Stockholm uni will be a bit on Parrot architecture, but more on PCT than anything. 15:12
Sell it as a kinda "playground" for making compilers for dynamic languages. 15:13
pmichaud the various times I've presented PCT I always getting the academics asking if it could be used for teaching a compilers course :-)
jonathan Should be quite appropriate, for students who've just done a dynamic languages course.
"And today we'll build our own language"
pmichaud or, as I do in the presentations... "And today, we'll build our own language. From scratch. During the talk." 15:14
jonathan Yeah, something like that.
purl i guess yeah, something like that is what I'd do as well
pmichaud is impressed by how many purl factoids jonathan++ manages to hit. :-) 15:15
jonathan probably just talks too much.
pmichaud: Got overriding name working, just smoking it then I'll commit 15:17
nopaste "jonathan" at 85.216.151.226 pasted "this now works locally" (15 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/13006 15:18
pmichaud wonderful. That saves me quite a few headaches.
pmichaud comes up with another cool idea for protoregexes. 15:22
Paula just told me "sounds good" and internally I mentally added "Speakers so loud..." *sigh* 15:23
jonathan wonders if he dares to ask what it is 15:24
lol!
pmichaud oh, I just figured out how I can automatically register the protoregexes without a lot of :load :init code. 15:25
jonathan OMG my patch involving C passed the codingstd tests!
Even trailing whitespace! 15:26
pmichaud: Committed, r27621, enjoy. 15:27
pmichaud jonathan: many thanks 15:28
time for me to do some shopping, some lunch, and then grading 15:29
jonathan OK
Slide writing, slovak studying and dinner cooking for me.
pmichaud I'll probably be afk most of the rest of today.
jonathan OK, see you tomorrow then.
pmichaud as soon as my grading is done, though, I'll be back here again. Too much cool code to write.
see you tomorrow.
15:33 Theory joined 15:34 Senaka joined
Senaka seen chromatic 15:34
purl chromatic was last seen on #parrot 4 days and 11 hours ago, saying: Some sort of mediated access anyway. [May 13 21:49:02 2008]
Tene purl: airports? 15:47
purl hmmm... airports is the most likely method.
Senaka lol
Tene purl: pungenday?
purl tene: i don't know
15:50 Senaka left 16:05 Zaba_ joined
dalek r27613 | pmichaud++ | p6object: 16:09
: [p6object]:
: * Make :name option work for registering classes.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27613
r27614 | bernhard++ | trunk:
: [commit]
: driver_nqp.pbc no longer needs to be built
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27614
r27615 | fperrad++ | trunk:
: [Lua] 16:10
: - remove useless .local (when vararg)
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27615
r27616 | bernhard++ | trunk:
: Set svn:eol-style to native for languages/c99/src/cpp/t/comment_01.t
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27616
r27617 | bernhard++ | trunk:
: [regex]
: make test target work under Unix:
: t\\harness => t/harness
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27617
r27618 | allison++ | pdd25cx:
: [pdd25cx] Changing the names of 'rethrow_exception' and 'rethrow_c_exception'
: to 'Parrot_ex_rethrow_from_op' and 'Parrot_ex_rethrow_from_c'.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27618
r27619 | allison++ | pdd25cx:
: [pdd25cx] Fixing constant strings that should be CONST_STRINGs.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27619
r27620 | fperrad++ | trunk:
: [Lua]
: - bytecode translation : split in & out register (binop)
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27620
r27621 | jonathan++ | trunk:
: [core] Allow object's name vtable method to be overridden.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27621
r27622 | fperrad++ | trunk:
: [Lua]
: - bytecode translation : split in & out register (call)
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27622
moritz that's feather's svn working again ;)
japhb allison: around? 16:48
purl nope.
16:57 Ron joined
dalek r27623 | smash++ | trunk: 16:58
: [t]
: * make t/distro/file_metadata.t happy
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27623
japhb debian++ # Updating testing to perl 5.10 16:59
debian-- # Removing SVK if you accept perl 5.10
17:04 Ron_ joined
allison japhb: hi 17:20
purl privet, allison.
17:21 barney joined
japhb allison: I sent my question about licensing of translated sample code to parrot-porters, but then I realized that may not be the right place. 17:21
Since you were the visible face of Artistic 2.0, I guessed you would be the right person to ask, er, who to ask. 17:22
allison I'll go find the message
japhb thx 17:23
allison Hmmm... better not to include it in the repository 17:24
japhb harumph. Ah well
japhb is going to have to come up with a lot of samples from his own brain 17:25
Damn having to think
allison you don't really want to distribute large sections of example GUI code in the distribution anyway, so put them up on a page for OpenGL in Parrot 17:26
japhb I accept the decision, but can you explain why it wouldn't be OK from a license perspective to include it with Parrot? That would inform my reasoning in the future about such issues .... 17:31
I guess I should have put allison: in front of that, given my delay in asking ... 17:35
allison we need to keep the licensing of Parrot as clean as possible, so the license is the main reason not to 17:42
japhb: but it really is true that a few focused examples will go a lot further toward getting people started 17:45
so, even if licensing wasn't an issue, I would encourage taking the time to come up with your own examples 17:46
(more on licensing): the main problem is that when people use open source code, they have to check the terms of the license to make sure they comply. the more different licenses mixed within the project, the harder their job is, and the more "sketchy" the project appears. 17:49
japhb allison: OK, that makes sense to me. 17:53
ambs slavorg, trust me 18:08
slavorg But I already trust me
ambs slavorg, op me 18:09
18:09 Ron joined
ambs slavorg, op 18:10
ambs shrugs
ambs was trying to update the number of tickets.
japhb ambs, what's the number right now? 18:11
ambs 694
moderator Devel: 0.6.1 | parrotcode.org/ | 694 18:12
japhb grrr 18:12
moderator Devel: 0.6.1 | parrotcode.org/ | 694 new/open tix 18:12
ambs japhb, thanks 18:12
slavorg, trust 18:13
slavorg huh?
ambs slavorg, do op
japhb ambs: If you have trust, I think it should auto-op you on join. Try that?
cognominal what is this number?
japhb er, try leaving and joining?
18:14 ambs left, ambs joined
japhb cognominal: Since the "700 bug challenge", people have been wanting to keep track of that. 18:14
ambs whatever, was trying to understand slavorg
japhb It's not automated, so occasionally someone updates it by hand
cognominal you can fix one by commiting my patch rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=52276 18:15
japhb cognominal: I'm still in the commitbit process, not a committer yet
slavorg, help 18:16
slavorg I'm slavorg, an op-bot.Commands: trust, distrust, believe, disbelieve, leave, join. See also jerakeen.org/programming/slavorg
ambs slavorg, leave #parrot 18:17
18:17 slavorg left, slavorg joined
cognominal slavorg, join #perlfr 18:17
slavorg I won't join there, because I don't trust you there.
japhb slavorg has rather compartmentalized notions of trust 18:18
ambs slavorg, do op
18:19 slavorg joined
ambs japhb, please op slavorg 18:24
Infinoid opbots, names
ambs there 18:25
Infinoid next question, where is clunker
18:26 clunker3 joined
ambs there 18:26
:D
moderator Devel: 0.6.1 | parrotcode.org/ | 19/675 new/open tix 18:29
ambs easier that way 18:30
than to sum all the time
18:43 Tux32 joined, Tux32 left 19:58 Psyche^ joined
japhb ambs++ # easy is good 19:58
clunker3, help
Wow, I wasn't expecting all that 20:00
dalek r27624 | allison++ | pdd25cx: 20:03
: [pdd25cx] Update rethrow for new semantics, untodo rethrow tests.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27624
allison@perl.org | Concurrency Tasks: 20:04
link: www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index...ency_tasks
shorten dalek's url is at xrl.us/bjqpy
20:11 Zaba joined 21:02 bacek joined 21:52 guru joined 21:53 tedkat joined 22:02 Theory joined 22:06 tetragon joined 22:26 guru left 23:15 kid51 joined
dalek r27625 | jkeenan++ | trunk: 23:26
: Applying patch submitted in
: rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=54374. Provide a little bit
: more configuration information so that tests of inter::libparrot emit no
: 'uninitialized value' warnings.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=27625
japhb Any windows or Mac OS X people about? 23:52
Eevee I love that you actually have to ask around for a Windows user 23:53
japhb heh 23:54
Tene I'm installing XP in a VM right now. Does that count? 23:57
tetragon I'm here with PPC OS X 10.5 23:58
japhb Great 23:59

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