Parrot 2.11.0 Released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | Goals: write GettingStartedWithPlumage, review html documentation, test HLLs, review deprecations | only critical fixes and documentation updates until after 3.0.0
Set by moderator on 16 January 2011.
NotFound_b That trans.t thing needs review. At least its comments looks wrong if you look at what the pow opcode does. 00:00
cotto_work NotFound_b: which trans.t thing? 00:02
kid51 NotFound_b: The tests are not failing for me now -- which, of course, doesn't mean they are *good* tests. Perhaps we're at the point where we should open a TT.
cotto_work It's nice that *some* of our releases are boring. 00:03
NotFound_b cotto_work: the pow overflow tests
kid51 gets ready to do laundry
NotFound_b kid51: thet are not failing now just because its skipping is more consistent. 00:04
dukeleto we should recruit this dude: ruby-php.org/ 00:13
cotto_work dukeleto: wtg. He sounds like someone who'd be interested. 00:15
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whiteknight good evening #parrot 00:21
kid51 NotFound_b: True 00:22
linux/i386 make fulltest PASS
cotto_work hio whiteknight 00:27
whiteknight heidi-ho neighboroony
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cotto_work whiteknight: I think you're going to like the release announcement. Barring insanity (which I really wish we could do), it should be waiting for you when you wake up. 00:29
whiteknight awesome. I look forward to it 00:31
a new era of Parrot is coming. I think the 3.0 months are going to be awesome 00:32
kid51 darwin/ppc: make test PASS 00:39
cotto_work Keep the good news coming! 00:42
also bad news if you've got it
kid51 linux/i386: configured with optimize and g++ all around: PASS 00:44
make test PASS, that is
dukeleto kid51: glad to hear that you agree about Parrot::Revision 00:45
kid51 It may have been a good idea ... but it's too close to release and he didn't revise the corresponding test 00:47
cotto_work yup
kid51 to laundry
cotto_work I'll be glad to see it go in after the release.
kid51 I want to look at it more closely first. 00:48
cotto_work kid51: it's in a branch now
kid51 ... and I want it tested somehow.
afk
cotto_work whiteknight: next time you move an op from experimental.ops, please run make bootstrap-ops.
whiteknight ok 00:49
dukeleto it does O(N) work to figure out something about git, where git would tell it in O(1) time.
dukeleto goes
whiteknight we should document those steps somewhere
cotto_work whiteknight: the question is where. I made a note at the top of each .ops file but that was only because I couldn't think of something better. 00:50
whiteknight actually it doesnt matter where. i wouldnt see it if it were tattood on my face 00:51
cotto_work A bad but effective idea would be to add it in a comment to the beginning of each op. 00:52
whiteknight i thought i did make bootstrap-ops
had to for the previous release 00:53
cotto_work Running bootstrap-ops now results in finalize moving to a different place in the op ordering.
whiteknight hmm
cotto_work either way, I'll do it to tonight 00:54
whiteknight cotto++
cotto_work whiteknight: did you ever get a functional laptop?
whiteknight nope 00:55
cotto_work You're being pretty productive for not having a laptop. 00:56
NotFound_b The Float cmp_p_p equality test fails for me in --optimize g++ build. 01:12
whiteknight so dont do it 01:13
NotFound_b A bit I don't understand: the comment says cmp_p_p but it does cmp_num, not cmp. 01:14
whiteknight problem solved
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cotto_work NotFound_b: trying to repro 01:22
mikehh I got the same problem with an g++ --optimized build, ok without --optimize 01:23
cotto_work NotFound_b: t/pmc/float.t? 01:26
NotFound_b cotto_work: yeah
The String get_number gives a result that differs aprox. 3e-15 from the expected vaue 01:27
cotto_work same result with cmp instead of cmp_num 01:29
NotFound_b: do you think there should be an epsilon in there?
NotFound_b cotto_work: I don't think so. The pir compiler should use the same function to get the float value than the string PMC, thus the result should be equal. 01:31
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cotto_work NotFound_b: is this something we can fix before the release or do we need to selectively TODO it? 01:45
NotFound_b cotto_work: not sure, I not even know were the problem lies. It can even be a compiler bug. 01:46
mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#3504) fulltest) at 2_11_0-1176-gea2a249 - Ubuntu 10.10 amd64 (g++-4.5)
I find it strange that it passes without --optimize nut fdails with 01:47
but
cotto_work NotFound_b: it sounds like we should selectively TODO the test. 01:49
mikehh gah - had a Microsoft 1000 wireless desktop, now have a Microsoft 5000 wireless desktop - the keys are differently placed
NotFound_b cotto_work: and then maybe we get a todo passing report from any other platform
mikehh you can check the compiler and if optimize is used 01:50
cotto_work mikehh: exactly
mikehh anyway, doing a test run on amd64, g++ --optimize 01:52
everything ok without it
cotto_work mikehh: it's x86 too
mikehh I think that is where I found the problem 01:53
NotFound_b I'm using i386
mikehh so, let's see what happens on 64 bit
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mikehh I did comment on it yesterday, so should be in the #parrot logs 01:55
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mikehh t/pmc/float.t - Failed test: 102 with g++ configured with --optimize (passes without and with gcc) on both Ubuntu 10.04 i386 and Ubuntu 10.10 i386 (g++ 4.4.3 and 4.5.1) 01:58
that was 2011-01-16 - 19:30 (irclog.perlgeek.de/) 02:01
NotFound_b I have a possible fix, but is cargo cult programming. 02:03
cotto_work NotFound_b: is this a todo or an actual fix?
NotFound_b Fix
cotto_work TODoing this is really ugly
NotFound_b: can you nopaste the fix? 02:04
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nopaste "NotFound" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "Bizarre fix for Float cmp problem" (16 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/28063 02:05
kid51 mikehh: Recently I have begun testing with --optimize --cc=g++ etc ... but I'm getting PASS. As I think you mentioned, this may be a g++ version problem.
cotto_work NotFound_b: that fixes it? *sigh* 02:06
NotFound_b cotto_work: passes for me in i386
cotto_work kid51: which gcc version?
NotFound_b: which gcc version?
mikehh: you too
NotFound_b 4.4.5
cotto_work same here 02:07
if that's what "gcc (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.4.4-14ubuntu5) 4.4.5" means
mikehh I tested with g++ 4.4.3 and 4.5.1, kid51 passed with an earlier version 02:08
cotto_work mikehh: same result for both?
mikehh yes - see above (from the logs) 02:09
cotto_work NotFound_b: that fixes it for me
kid51 On Linux, I have: g++ --version
g++ (Debian 4.3.2-1.1) 4.3.2
Copyright (C) 2008
cotto_work mikehh: moritz's irclogs let you link to a specific line (for future reference)
NotFound_b We got the Cargo! Joe bless us!
cotto_work fbrito++ for adding the tests that detected that bit of inanity 02:10
I'll commit it. 02:11
NotFound_b: where'd you find that fix?
kid51 With the patch, t/pmc/float.t continues to pass for me on linux/i386 configured with cc=g++ (4.3.2)
cotto_work kid51: thanks 02:12
It's times like this that I'm grateful for ccache, or at least I would be if I'd bothered to installed it on this machine. 02:13
NotFound_b cotto_work: just by remembering ugly ways of avoiding old g++ bugs years ago.
cotto_work wheee
kid51 So I think this is a g++ version thing ... which means it's way above my paygrade 02:14
NotFound_b One time I even created a non const global var with zero value to make == ZERO work in optimized bulds.
cotto_work notfound++ 02:15
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dalek rrot/gcc-float-fix: a69afcc | cotto++ | src/pmc/float.pmc:
fix an odd bug that resulted in some lost precision in the Float PMC
 02:16
NotFound_b Usually people fails to recognize that kinds of bugs, they fall to the standard answer "never compare floats for exact equality"
mikehh from irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/2011-01-16: 02:17
16:12 mikehh I am getting a failure in t/pmc/float.t (g++ --optimize) - Failed test: 102 - comparison ops: cmp_p_p: equality (passes g++ without --optimize and gcc - Ubuntu 10.10 i386)
16:45 kid51 mikehh: Unable to reproduce that on an older Debian, with all other arguments same as yours
16:47 mikehh kid51: looking at it - it works with g++ (no --optimize) and gcc with or without --optimize
16:49 I am using gcc/g++ 4.5.1
cotto_work NotFound_b: I want to test with msvc before I throw it into trunk.
mikehh ...
19:30 mikehh t/pmc/float.t - Failed test: 102 with g++ configured with --optimize (passes without and with gcc) on both Ubuntu 10.04 i386 and Ubuntu 10.10 i386 (g++ 4.4.3 and 4.5.1)
NotFound_b cotto_work: ok 02:18
cotto_work It'll probably be fine, but I want to be really sure.
NotFound_b cotto_work: it's all yours, I must sleep now. 02:19
cotto_work NotFound_b: 'night
mikehh cotto_work: there are a bunch of files that should be in .gitignore - they are removed by make realclean - let me nopaste 02:22
cotto_work wonders if that was really NotFound's evil twin
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cotto_work mikehh: do you mind filing a ticket on this Float bug? I want something more than irclogs to keep a record of it. 02:23
nopaste "mikehh" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "files to go in .gitignore" (19 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/28066
cotto_work affected gcc versions, the fix and the gist of the conversation would be fine
dalek rrot: a69afcc | cotto++ | src/pmc/float.pmc:
fix an odd bug that resulted in some lost precision in the Float PMC
 02:25
cotto_work mikehh: fixed 02:28
dalek rrot: 23156aa | cotto++ | .gitignore:
add some generated files to .gitignore
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mikehh cotto_work: just as a matter of interest - I ran the tests before the patch and it passes (t/pmc/float.t) 64 bit g++ --optimize 02:42
but mind you it uses a different float type (not the co-processor i387 as does 32 bit) 02:44
anyway testing with the patches now 02:45
cotto_work mikehh: same gcc version? 02:48
mikehh cotto_work: yes 02:50
cotto_work: MANIFEST.SKIP needs to be re-generated
cotto_work mikehh: in the future (and especially before a release), please be sure that someone like whiteknight, dukeleto or me notices failure reports. Don't feel bad if you need to repeat yourself or send a msg.
mikehh I done think I got the next release 02:51
cotto_work done
dalek rrot: eff8e03 | cotto++ | MANIFEST.SKIP:
regenerate MANIFEST.SKIP; mikehh++ for noticing
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kid51_at_dinner How TF did whiteknight manage to take a ticket at the instant I created it? 03:28
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kid51 Has he got some hook set up to automatically assign all tickets to him? 03:30
dalek TT #1976 created by jkeenan++: manifest-related files still reference Subversion
TT #1976: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1976
bacek_at_work kid51, "component owner"? 03:31
kid51 What is that?
Does that mean that if I designate a component on a brand-new ticket, that ticket can automatically be assigned to someone designated as the 'owner' of that component? 03:32
Hmm, I guess so. 03:33
And, much to my surprise, *I* am designated the component owner of coding_standards. 03:34
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kid51 And, you, dear bacek, are the component owner for pirate! 03:34
bacek_at_work kid51, no idea ;) 03:35
kid51 I'm not sure I like this. About half of the "component owners" are not currently active committers.
mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#3527) fulltest) at 2_11_0-1179-geff8e03 - Ubuntu 10.10 amd64 (g++-4.5 with --optimize) 03:36
kid51 make release! 03:37
tag it and ship it!
kid51 must sleep 03:38
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cotto ~~ 03:47
mikehh hey cotto 03:51
tests ok for me - up to fulltest on 64 bit, with or without --optimize
cotto good news there 03:52
mikehh only had that one problem with 32 bit, but hopefully that is fixed now 03:54
cotto mikehh, it is as far as my testing indicates
and it didn't make anything worse
mikehh I will test later, it's approaching 4am for me, think I need some sleep 03:55
cotto mikehh, good idea 04:41
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dukeleto ~~ 07:11
cotto hi dukeleto 07:14
dukeleto, git log ..origin/master doesn't show any changes, even though I have a couple unpushed commits. 07:15
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dukeleto cotto: hmm 07:20
cotto: what about git log origin/master.. ?
cotto: does git log --graph --all show you anything ? 07:22
cotto dukeleto, that does it 07:23
origin/master..
I'll fix that now
07:24 theory left
moritz good morning 07:24
cotto hi moritz
cotto wonders why his laptop makes a noise when gcc compiles a file 07:29
moritz hiccup? :-) 07:30
cotto It's a distinct sounds, almost like a click. It shouldn't be hdd access because I have an ssd. 07:31
moderator Parrot 2.11.0 Released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | Goals: write GettingStartedWithPlumage, review html documentation, test HLLs, review deprecations | RELEASE IN PROGRESS - no commits to master 07:34
dukeleto cotto: the difference between ..origin/master and origin/master.. is (A-B) vs (B-A), where A and B are sets 07:43
cotto: so if origin is ahead, one of those will show a difference, but the other won't
cotto: when local master is ahead, the other comittish shows the difference 07:44
cotto: makes sense?
cotto yup
cotto has encountered a yak
dukeleto cotto: perhaps the docs should just say "git diff origin/master"
cotto: that doesn't care about set differences, if that commands returns something, then local master and origin/master are not in sync, IF "git fetch" has been run recently 07:45
cotto dukeleto, wfm
dukeleto cotto: what flavor yak did you find?
cotto a stupid one that smells fairly hairy 07:46
trouble with tools/dev/mk_native_pbc
dukeleto cotto: i saw your float pmc commit, that is quite interesting
cotto: what kind of trouble?
cotto dukeleto, that was notfound's
but yes
dukeleto cotto: do you need somebody to generate native pbc's again?
cotto src/nci/libffi.c:274: error: ‘ffi_type_parrot_numval’ undeclared (first use in this function)
breaks with Configure.pl "--floatval=long double" 07:47
dukeleto, any idea what to do about that? 07:48
dukeleto cotto: that --floatval option is NEVER tested, as far as I can see
cotto: i don't know that i consider that config arg 'supported' 07:49
cotto: it would be nice to, but we need to say that, and then test against it
cotto dukeleto, it's run by mk_native_pbc
dukeleto cotto: huh 07:52
cotto: so every time mk_native_pbc is run, it gives Configure.pl those flags?
cotto that seems to be the case
dukeleto cotto: but that is never triggered in the test suite?
cotto guess not 07:53
dukeleto cotto: blarg 07:54
cotto I'm not sure I like that script.
dukeleto, are you on a 64-bit machine?
dukeleto cotto: i can be
dukeleto is on the train right now on a 32bit netbook, but have ssh access to various 64 bit boxen 07:55
cotto: perhaps you need to give some --with-extra-nci-thunk junk to the script ?
cotto blargh 07:56
dukeleto, can you see if tools/dev/mk_native_pbc works on a 64-bit box? 07:57
dukeleto cotto: will check when i get home. what exactly do you want me to do?
cotto: you gonna be up for a bit? 07:58
cotto just configure Parrot normally and run sh tools/dev/mk_native_pbc
dukeleto, probably for at least an hour or so
dukeleto will be back soon
cotto I want to kick the release out before bed.
eta?
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dukeleto cotto: back on a 64 bit machine 08:21
dukeleto updates parrot.git and builds a fresh parrot
cotto good times 08:23
thanks
dukeleto cotto: it seems to be running 08:25
cotto dukeleto, it takes a couple cycles to fail on my box 08:26
lmk if it completes
dukeleto cotto: will do, it is warming up my desk as we speak 08:27
cotto it'll do that
dukeleto cotto: failed 08:28
cotto gah
h8h8h8
dukeleto cotto: gist.github.com/784135
cotto: yeah, this is no fun. Did something in ffi change since the last release?
cotto same thing I see, more of less
If only git exposed some kind of log that I could examine. 08:29
dukeleto yeah, they should add that
cotto looks like essentially nothing changed since the last release
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dukeleto cotto: src/nci/libffi.c:38:4: error: #error "unhandled NUMVAL_SIZE value" 08:30
cotto: is that the first actual error?
cotto: there is nothing wrong with post-poning the release a day to figure this out. it is much better than rushing and getting something wrong 08:31
cotto I didn't keep track of the full output
I'll see if I can get something to work. 08:32
in the meantime, this: www.jwz.org/blog/2011/01/what-if-i-...on-indeed/
fulltest passes 08:34
dukeleto cotto: which files got modified when you ran it? 08:36
i am seeing (integer|number|string)_4.pbc
cotto a bunch in t/native_pbc
_1.pbc
dukeleto cotto: mine only changed 3 files 08:38
cotto 6 here
dukeleto fulltest bombs out for me with the same src/nci/libffi.c:38:4: error: #error "unhandled NUMVAL_SIZE value"
cotto same here 08:39
dukeleto cotto: gerd just replied to you on parrot-dev 08:40
dukeleto is tired and have epsilon/2 tuits left tonight
cotto dukeleto, no worries. 08:41
dukeleto, I don't see any response 08:42
dukeleto, I may have a fix. 08:44
and it's fixed 08:52
dukeleto, I'm still not seeing anything on parrot-dev. 08:54
I guess you're not conscious. 'night 08:59
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dalek rrot: 974663a | cotto++ | docs/pdds/ (2 files):
[pdd] kick pdd10 out of draft
 09:26
rrot: 68d24d0 | cotto++ | NEWS:
update and polish NEWS for 3.0.0
rrot: 59ec665 | cotto++ | CREDITS:
update CREDITS to be less untrue
rrot: 994be38 | cotto++ | / (7 files):
various updates to prepare for 3.0.0
rrot: 3f1765e | cotto++ | MANIFEST:
manifix after kicking pdd10 out of draft
rrot: 1fc3a3f | cotto++ | / (4 files):
bootstrap ops to 3.0.0
rrot: e97ed5a | cotto++ | PBC_COMPAT:
bump PBC_COMPAT for 3.0.0
rrot: add0c97 | cotto++ | PBC_COMPAT:
fix PBC_COMPAT formatting
rrot: 01cefe5 | cotto++ | src/nci/libffi.c:
fix mk_native_pbc
rrot: 8c3d3b4 | cotto++ | t/native_pbc/ (6 files):
update native pbc files
rrot: 502d035 | cotto++ | t/manifest/01-basic.t:
skip the correct number of tests in a release tarball
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dalek website: cotto++ | Parrot 3.0.0 "Beef Stew" Released! 10:03
website: www.parrot.org/news/2011/parrot-3.0.0
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moderator Parrot 3.0.0 Released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | Goals: write GettingStartedWithPlumage, review html documentation, test HLLs, review deprecations | merge at will 10:13
mikehh cotto++ 10:14
cotto aloha, clock? 10:17
aloha cotto: LAX: Tue, 02:17 PST / CHI: Tue, 04:17 CST / NYC: Tue, 05:17 EST / UTC: Tue, 10:17 UTC / LON: Tue, 10:17 GMT / BER: Tue, 11:17 CET / TOK: Tue, 19:17 JST / SYD: Tue, 21:17 EST
cotto good morning, mikehh 10:18
mikehh cotto: well done on the release, looks like you sorted out a lot of problems there 10:19
cotto I'm very ready for bed. 10:20
mikehh cotto: sleep well, cu in #ps 10:21
cotto 'night 10:22
dalek rrot: df5403b | cotto++ | docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod:
don't insult the release manager after at the end of the process
gerd cotto++; nice to have the release so early on the day 10:23
cotto That commit message is actually a pretty good indicator of my mental state.
definitely time to limit the damage. 10:24
cotto out
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Coke cotto++ # ooh, even docs.parrot.org is updated. 11:25
msg dukeleto any idea where smolder is installed? is it a box I have access to? 11:49
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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dalek rrot: aad4e61 | Coke++ | docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod:
minor nit on docs.parrot.org release.
 12:01
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mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#3612) fulltest) at 3_0_0-1-gdf5403b - Ubuntu 10.10 amd64 (g++-4.5 with --optimize) 12:12
rakudo (388eed7) - builds on parrot (3_0_0-1-gdf5403b)- make test, make spectest_smolder[(#3626), roast (d96889b)] PASS - Ubuntu 10.10 amd64 (g++-4.5 with --optimize) 12:22
Coke t/tools/mk_language_shell.t fails. 12:24
mikehh Coke: not for me 12:28
Coke: btw I am getting three couldn't find messages in t/src/checkdepend.t - checked # couldn't find /usr/include/malloc.h, included from src/gc/malloc.c - should be ok 12:34
- # include "/usr/include/malloc.h" on line 854 of src/gc/malloc.c -> /usr/include/malloc.h exists 12:36
Coke mikehh: it's got an explicit skip for darwin. 12:37
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Coke if you invert the conditional, you can probably duplicate the error. 12:38
mikehh: those have been complaining since nwell* changed things a few weeks ago.
mikehh Coke: yeah, was just wondering, try and follow up on messages that don't cause the test to fail 12:41
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atrodo cotto++ # Release announcement 13:30
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whiteknight release announcement has a lot of extra snark this time around. cotto++ 13:39
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Coke I can't build rakudo after installing 3.0.0 13:47
Reading configuration information from parrot_config ... 13:48
PARROT VM: Could not initialize new interpreterPackFile_Header_validate: This Parrot cannot read bytecode files with version 10.0.
it's because I installed 3.0.0 into the same location where I had originally installed 2.11.0-devel
the installed parrot_config gets confused. :( 13:49
mikehh Coke: it built fine for me with Ubuntu 10.10 amd64
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mikehh I usually remove the installed stuff before building parrot, or use a different --prefix on Configure 13:50
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Coke right. it's fine if you start with a clean install directory. 13:50
but the fact that you need to do that is a bug, IMO.
atrodo Coke++ I agree
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mikehh Coke: I also agree on that, have had quite a few problems if I did not remove it 13:52
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mikehh need to go out, no milk left :-} 13:53
Coke ticket opened. 13:55
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dalek TT #1977 created by coke++: parrot requires fresh install directory 13:59
TT #1977: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1977
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whiteknight good morning, #parrot 15:44
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dalek TT #1978 created by mikehh++: possible problem with g++ --optimize (t/pmc/float.t failure) 16:12
TT #1978: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1978
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dukeleto ~~ 16:40
whiteknight good morning, dukeleto 16:41
dukeleto Coke: smolder is on the parrotvm box at OSUOSL. That is all I know.
Coke dukeleto: danke. 16:45
ah, found it. 16:46
dukeleto Coke: please document what you find
Coke: i am still having a problem getting nqp-rx and tre-optimization to submit smolder reports
Coke: so if you find any useful error logs, let me know. I want to see them. 16:47
Coke found the sqlite db, that's about it. 16:48
dukeleto cotto++ # awesome job on the release, the announcement, and fixing mk_native_pbc
Coke dukeleto: when did you last get an error? 16:50
dukeleto: I see no log entries on the last 2 days for report/8 (nqp-rx) 16:52
dukeleto Coke: that is the bug. Smolder returns 200 and the report never shows up. Very frustrating. 16:54
Coke: what about in tree-optimization
Coke: i see you had the pleasure of opening the first github issue on my Util.git repo. Congrats ;) 16:56
Coke: i agree, and would gladly accept a patch 16:57
Coke dukeleto: found the log. looks like something is dying trying to email directors@parrot.org
(patch) well, the easiest thing locally is for me to hardcode it too. ;) 16:58
dukeleto Coke: sad face!
Coke: when i was writing that stuff i wasn't taking into account others using it, but it wouldn't be hard to document it a bit and have a doc about "how to setup a smoker" 16:59
Coke can you try to do another upload for nqp-rx for me?
dukeleto ** POST smolder.parrot.org/app/projects/pro...d_report/9 ==> 200 OK
Coke: i just submitted a tree-optimization report
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Coke dukeleto: once more? 17:00
dukeleto Coke: i am not sure if the bug in nqp-rx is on my side or smolder, but tree-optimization's smolder stuff is using setup.pir, so it *should* work
Coke: en route
Coke did it hit? 17:01
(just saw the log timestamp change)
dukeleto Coke: yep, just sent it
Coke: it gave me the same 200 junk
Coke I think it might be the email config. let me see if I can find the per project config. 17:02
... there's a web GUI admin? haz you the password?
I imagine it's much easier to config that way than rooting about on the command line 17:03
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whiteknight I would really like to see plobsing's branch get merged before anything else 17:05
that's a really imporant branch
17:05 NotFound is now known as NotFound_idle 17:06 Themeruta is now known as NotFound
dukeleto Coke: yes 17:06
plobsing: ping! 17:08
plobsing: we are going to merge your branch for you, if you don't do it soon ;)
whiteknight: i agree
whiteknight: i want that branch to have the smallest chance of annoying conflicts
whiteknight I am not going to merge either of my branches until he does his, but I am going to update them now to current master 17:10
tadzik o/ 17:13
dukeleto tadzik: wazzup
tadzik: you gonna be able to hack on deprecations as data anytime soon?
tadzik dukeleto: oh, loads of Uni work
dukeleto: yeah, I scheduled that on fri-sat
dukeleto tadzik: awesome! 17:14
tadzik: good luck with school. what classes are you taking? Any good math classes?
tadzik dukeleto: discrete mathematics and analysis. I'm having a DM exam tomorrow 17:15
Not a final yet, mainly from recursive equations
dukeleto tadzik: oh boy, sounds like fun :) are you swimming in Hilbert space? 17:16
tadzik coming soon this week: physics, fundamentals of electronics and fundamentals of digital techniques (or how is it named. Asynchronous FSMs this time) 17:17
dukeleto: never heard of the guy :)
dukeleto can't tell if he is being trolled 17:18
dalek rrot/imcc_cleanups: 592b8ce | Whiteknight++ | compilers/imcc/ (2 files):
remove old vestige of IMCC -w handling. We do all that in the frontend now
 17:20
rrot/imcc_cleanups: b347b0c | Whiteknight++ | compilers/imcc/Rules.in:
add rules for checkdepend, though it still fails and I can't figure out why
dukeleto can see a bumper sticker on the horizon : "The Parrot Embed API does it in the frontend" 17:22
whiteknight ::facepalm:: 17:23
dukeleto smolder.parrot.org/app/projects/rep...tails/3683 <-- first smoke report from tree-optimization !!! 17:24
tadzik dukeleto: no really. Just wikipedied him, doesn't look familiar
oh, so it works?
dukeleto tadzik: it works! Coke++ figured out that the parrot-autobot user wasn't made a part of the new projects 17:25
tadzik: mathworld.wolfram.com/HilbertSpace.html
tadzik cool :) My commit was valuable then
dukeleto tadzik: yes, it was! 17:26
tadzik awesome :)
kthakore Hello on this page www.parrot.org/news/2011/parrot-3.0.0 17:27
Can some one update docs/pdd/pdd10_embedding.pod
to docs/pdds/pdd10_embedding.pod
?
dukeleto kthakore: nice catch 17:28
can someone do that?
kthakore I could if I had access 17:29
but cotto was the one to add it
any way I have to get back to work
dukeleto kthakore: we will find someone to fix it. Thanks for letting us know. kthakore++ 17:30
bacek_at_work: interesting new failure in tree-optimization smolder.parrot.org/app/projects/rep...tails/3683 on parrot master 17:31
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dalek TT #1975 closed by doughera++: pbc_dump and pbc_merge may crash on illegal options 17:35
TT #1975: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1975
tadzik isparrotfastyet.com/ -- whoa, what's that dropdown? 17:42
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cotto Let's see some merging! 17:43
dukeleto MERGE MERGE MERGE 17:47
Coke (dropdown) that's /good/, right? 17:48
dukeleto if it is correct, yes, it is good 17:49
dalek rrot/imcc_cleanups: 0e3282c | Whiteknight++ | / (37 files):
Merge branch 'master' into imcc_cleanups
tadzik Use of uninitialized value within %config in substitution iterator at Configure.pl line 179. 17:51
(3.0.0)
whiteknight tadzik: any idea which value? 17:52
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tadzik whiteknight: no idea, let me look into the file 17:57
dukeleto tadzik: i see that error too 17:58
tadzik: warning, rather
whiteknight: it is looking for some config key that doesn't exist anymore, probably
tadzik: that has been happening since before 3.0.0 as well
tadzik hmm, haven't noticed 18:00
oh wait, that's Rakudo's problem
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jimmy good morning 18:02
dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 47 commits to parrot/exception_backtraces by Whiteknight 18:04
18:04 jimmy is now known as JimmyZ
whiteknight good morning JimmyZ 18:04
tadzik good morning
JimmyZ good morning whiteknight 18:05
whiteknight I'm going to try updating pbc-backref to master now, to see how cleanly that goes 18:07
dukeleto whiteknight++
JimmyZ (anyone who makes parrot better)++ 18:08
cotto_work ~~ 18:09
dukeleto cotto_work: mornin' 18:10
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cotto_work hi JimmyZ 18:15
whiteknight okay, pbc-backref updates to master with no apparent issues 18:16
builds without problem and all coretests pass 18:17
cotto_work excellent
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dukeleto release the hounds! 18:19
whiteknight I don't want to do it without plobsing. It's his baby
cotto_work no reason not to let him do the honors 18:21
JimmyZ hello cotto_work
it's 2:21am here :)
cotto_work JimmyZ: that's about when I got to bed. 18:22
JimmyZ cotto_work: I will go to bed soon. hehe
cotto_work JimmyZ: I'd like to get that pull request dealt with. What are you suggesting that WINVER be #defined to? 18:24
github.com/parrot/parrot/pull/121
JimmyZ cotto_work: if I'm on windows 98, then defining WINVER 0x0500 is wrong 18:26
dukeleto #ps soon?
whiteknight dukeleto: 2 hours, I think
dalek rrot: 248434e | cotto++ | src/pmc/float.pmc:
[pmc] add tt reference to NotFound++'s Float PMC fix
 18:27
whiteknight 20:30 UTC, right?
cotto_work 2 hours 18:28
JimmyZ: what should it be defined to?
JimmyZ cotto_work: and, WINVER was nerver used by parrot, _MEMORYSTATUSEX was already copied from winbase.h to parrot's win32/sysmen.c 18:30
dalek nxed: r731 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
add target named parameter to the compile method on the compreg'ed object
 18:31
JimmyZ IIRC, if WINVER < Windows2000 was introduced by fperrad++, but parrot did'nt define WINVER dynmically, and then is defined 0x400 by windows.h. that's why it's failing 18:34
err, 0x0400 18:35
I think the better way is check windows version, and then define WINVER dynmically. :), or remove these lines, which is bad, _MEMORYSTATUSEX doesn't work when < windows2000 18:40
cotto_work JimmyZ: can you suggest a patch to check the windows version more intelligently? 18:42
dalek nxed: r732 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxed_installed.winxed:
initial support for -c -e options in installable compiler
nxed: r733 | NotFound++ | trunk/pir/winxed_ (2 files):
update installable files
rrot: 10b4386 | plobsing++ | / (12 files):
Merge branch 'pbc-backref'
 18:44
tadzik \\o/
JimmyZ cotto_work: I don't know how to do it, but I can give it a try.
cotto_work JimmyZ: ok. Unfortunately I can't help much beyond testing. 18:45
thanks
JimmyZ you are welcome :)
JimmyZ must sleep
cotto_work 'night
JimmyZ good night 18:46
18:46 JimmyZ left
whiteknight plobsing++ indeed 18:48
cotto_work plobsing++
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dalek rrot: c327bca | cotto++ | lib/Parrot/Install.pm:
[install] update the libparrot symlink when installing, fixing TT #1960
 18:56
TT #1960 closed by cotto++: make install doesn't update libparrot.so symlink. 18:59
TT #1960: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1960
TT #1977 closed by cotto++: parrot requires fresh install directory
TT #1977: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1977
whiteknight Maybe for future releases we should prepare and release a "release candidate" a few days prior to the actual release 19:00
that way we can shake out bugs that only appear in the release before we actually cut it
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cotto_work whiteknight: that's not a bad idea, provided that creating the rc doesn't involve hours of testing in the same way the release does 19:05
The fixes didn't end up being too difficult, but it was a bit disheartening that they were needed at all. 19:06
NotFound We can create a branch for the release, apply only fixes to it, and after realese done and tagged merge it to master. 19:10
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whiteknight cotto_work: The benefit of the release candidate is that we can do the process early, do all the testing in a branch, get users and HLLs to test with it, and then we basically have a release ready-made when we want to cut it 19:12
so you still do all the testing necessary, but you do it earlier
We can cut a release branch pretty early, and people can be breaking master so long as the release branch is stable 19:13
dalek rrot: f99c01f | Whiteknight++ | / (14 files):
Merge branch 'master' of github.com:parrot/parrot
 19:15
TT #1978 closed by cotto++: possible problem with g++ --optimize (t/pmc/float.t failure)
TT #1978: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1978
whiteknight when I merge imcc_cleanups everybody is going to have to reconfigure 19:16
barring test failures, that's about 10 minutes from now
cotto_work whiteknight: I also kicked pdd10 out of draft.
whiteknight I saw that. Most awesome
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dukeleto plobsing++ # pbc-backref merge 19:21
whiteknight what does the output of t/src/checkdepent.t mean? 19:23
cotto_work it means that the makefile dependencies need fixing
whiteknight right. it says "got 'include/pmc/pmc_callcontext.h(2)' expected 'include/pmc/pmc_callcontext.h(1)'" 19:24
so what's that error, and how do I fix it?
cotto_work I guess that means it's included twice.
whiteknight great
cotto_work whiteknight: is this in a branch? 19:25
whiteknight yeah, imcc_cleanups
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whiteknight I can't wait to get this branch merged so I can start on the next stage of the project 19:28
...and here it comes 19:31
dalek rrot: 7e33ed2 | Whiteknight++ | / (20 files):
Merge branch 'imcc_cleanups'
rrot: a0d48ce | Whiteknight++ | compilers/imcc/Rules.in:
fix dependencies in the imcc makefile
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Kapace hahaha! cool "beef stew" reference to homestarrunner :D 19:35
well done, good work everyone!
cotto_work git++ 19:36
there's no way this would be so smooth with svn
Coke jimmyz: if you're on win98, well, why? 19:41
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dukeleto whiteknight++ && imcc-- 19:47
karma imcc
aloha imcc has karma of -7.
tadzik poor imcc
dalek nxed: r734 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst0.cpp:
minimal support for named parameters in stage 0
 19:48
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cotto_work tcurtis: ping 19:51
tcurtis cotto_work: pong
cotto_work tcurtis: there's a test failure in tree-optimization (which has been moved under the parrot org). Do you have the tuits to fix it?
tcurtis cotto_work: possibly. I likely won't have time to look into it much tonight, but immobilizing ankle injuries do free up one's schedule nicely. :) 19:56
KaeseEs what doc should i start looking at first if i want to dig into the gc but haven't done parrot work before? 19:57
cotto_work tcurtis: I'm not glad that you're injured, but I'll accept the benefits. 19:58
whiteknight KaeseEs: we have a docs/pdds/pdd09* document that describes the GC architecture 20:03
but it's a little bit out of date since bacek has been doing so much work there 20:04
bacek has two branches, one of which contains a pretty detailed description of the new algorithm he wants to implement
tcurtis cotto_work: It's minor, but makes walking/standing/going to class inconvenient. 20:05
whiteknight KaeseEs: github.com/parrot/parrot/blob/gene...c/gc_gms.c 20:06
KaeseEs: Unfortunately, it's one of those kinds of systems that you really need to just start digging into. We can answer questions that you have 20:07
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Eclesia good evening 20:07
dukeleto KaeseEs: firstly, welcome to #parrot !
whiteknight hello Eclesia
dukeleto Eclesia: howdy
KaeseEs thanks whiteknight, dukeleto 20:08
cotto_work KaeseEs: also be aware that the algorithm described has not actually been implemented.
KaeseEs ah-ha.
whiteknight KaeseEs: I know that system pretty well. What kind of work do you want to do in it? Any particular questions you have to get you moving in the right direction?
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Eclesia are there syntaxe colorations tools who handle actions and grammar files ? 20:09
whiteknight Eclesia: None that I know of for the Perl6 variant 20:10
dalek rrot: 2a46de6 | NotFound++ | / (2 files):
fix c++ build and add a few decorations
whiteknight Some syntax highlighters may handle Flex and Bison, but it's not common
dukeleto Eclesia: good question. I think a perl6 syntax color highlighter exists, which will mostly work for the actions and grammar files
Eclesia dukeleto: that would be great, you remember it's name ? 20:11
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dukeleto Eclesia: i am attempting to find it 20:12
Eclesia applaud for parrot 3.0 release (while I think about it)
dukeleto Eclesia: perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/syntax-h....writeback is a bit old but could be useful 20:13
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Eclesia dukeleto: thanks, I'll have to find a way to use that now ^^ 20:14
KaeseEs whiteknight: at this stage i'm mostly just looking to get an overview of the system and see what sort of tasks i might be able to do (hopefully my classes this semester should leave me a decent amount of time to work on stuff)
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dukeleto Eclesia: lastofthecarelessmen.blogspot.com/2...hting.html 20:14
whiteknight KaeseEs: Okay. And you're specifically interested in GC?
dukeleto Eclesia: those are mostly for producing HTML output, but they are a start 20:15
KaeseEs: what kind of programming language background do you have?
Eclesia: search.cpan.org/dist/Padre-Plugin-Perl6/ 20:16
Eclesia: that is probably what you want, but it is for Padre, a pretty awesome GUI IDE 20:17
dalek p-rx/nom: 88e53e7 | tadzik++ | build/Makefile.in:
Fix a whitespace-o in Makefile.in
KaeseEs dukeleto: junior in cse at rpi, written a fair amount of C (mostly in the embedded space), done a little bit of sysprog, use perl 5 as my goto apps language. GC seemed like an interesting and challanging task, although if folks think i wouldn't be useful there i could always hack at something else :) 20:18
whiteknight KaeseEs: no, GC is definitely interesting and challenging. Plus, we do need it done 20:19
I just want to make sure it's something you really do want to work on before I start scaring you with details
Eclesia dukeleto: never heard about this ide before, I'm not surprised to see that it's a perl IDE lol.
KaeseEs: maybe you could code the java language on parrot vm. to ease those who which to migrate (like me) :D 20:21
KaeseEs whiteknight: also i've heard that most of the hard bits of of implementing a modernish gc system (generational/tricolor/etc) boil down to graph problems, and staring that in the face will help me decide whether to get my concentration nest yeat in graph theory or hardware :V 20:22
s/nest yeat/next year/ # crumbs in keyboard, fml
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bacek aloha, humans 20:24
whiteknight KaeseEs: Ah, so a life decision. GC is only really a graph in name only. That is, memory objects do form a graph, but you don't do anything fun with it like tracing edges, or applying a colorization, or anything
tadzik hey bacek
whiteknight basically you have a loop, and you loop over all the pointers in an array
bacek tadzik, hi
kid51 #parrotsketch in 6 minutes
whiteknight KaeseEs: if you want a better application of graphs, the MMD system or the register allocator might be better for you
dalek rrot: 096e9c6 | NotFound++ | t/src/embed/api.t:
fix an embed test for c++ build and add linedirective to it
 20:25
KaeseEs i'll look into that too. 20:26
whiteknight KaeseEs: actually, the generational algorithm is pretty graph-able. It basically involves sorting nodes from one large graph into various subgraphs depending on how often they are touched 20:28
(as a radical oversimplification)
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Coke KaeseEs: you're at RPI? I'm class of '93. 20:28
KaeseEs didn't mjd graduate around then too? 20:29
Coke (and am probably about 30m south of you right now)
we're about the same vintage, but didn't share classes.
syntax highlighter... vim?
mikehh #ps time
Coke github.com/petdance/vim-perl 20:30
KaeseEs ah-ha. i was going to ask him if he wanted to maybe give a talk in paul lalli's class about hop-type stuff, but apparently it isn't being offered any more :(
Coke is paul still around? used to see him on lily all the time, but not in a while. 20:31
KaeseEs i think so. would have to check. when i took his class his day job was doing some sort of bank software in 5.8.x on solaris i think in the vicinity of clifton park, so it's plausible that he hasn't gotten too far away :) 20:32
dalek rrot: 34dca63 | NotFound++ | t/src/embed/api.t:
main lacked return on an embed test
 20:34
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bacek plobsing++ # pbc-backref! 20:51
dalek rrot: 09c60a0 | cotto++ | docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod:
add whiteknight as the release manager for 3.3
 20:52
TT #1978 reopened by doughera++: possible problem with g++ --optimize (t/pmc/float.t failure) 20:54
TT #1978: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1978
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NotFound Why trac doesn't allow to add a comment if someone had added another while writing it? Look like a silly restriction to me. 21:09
cotto_work NotFound: because trac-- 21:10
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jnthn Every time you think trac--, remember: "We could be using Microsoft's Team Foundation System" ;-) 21:21
jnthn has a comparatively high opinion of Trac compared to that junk heap.
cotto_work jnthn: that's a helpful perspective. 21:22
NotFound jnthn: we couldn't, no one is going to pay the licenses ;)
jnthn No tool is perfect. Some are just more imperfect than others. :) 21:23
Question. Is Parrot's fixed size allocator API? 21:24
whiteknight jnthn: extending API maybe
we don't really have a defined extending API other than "anything with PARROT_EXPORT is available for extenders"
jnthn If I want to allocate object bodies, which will tend to fall into various common sizes, is it a better choice than just mallocing?
whiteknight jnthn: but it is a pretty stable part of the system, so you can use it. It is better than malloc
it's not automatically managed. No GC for fixed size chunks. So you need to trac them yourself 21:25
jnthn whiteknight: Sure. These are things that'll hang off the ->data pointer of PMCs.
whiteknight okay. If you can keep them under control you can definitely use them
jnthn OK. Where to look for docs? 21:26
The appropriate .h file will do as docs. ;-)
whiteknight include/parrot/gc_api.h is probably it 21:27
they are used in src/pmc.c, among other places. That's where the pmc->data structure comes from in the first place
and in src/hash.c now, I think 21:28
jnthn Parrot_gc_allocate_fixed_size_storage looks the part :) 21:29
whiteknight yeah, I think that's it
and there's a _free_ variant of it too
jnthn yes, just found that :)
jnthn will be sure to call it ;) 21:30
dalek rrot: ba669a8 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
Merge remote branch 'origin/gci_orderedhash_coverage'
 21:32
rrot: 14f54bc | Whiteknight++ | / (4 files):
Merge branch 'master' of github.com:parrot/parrot
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cotto_work atrodo: ping 21:37
atrodo cotto_work> pong
cotto_work atrodo: what are you thinking about wrt M0 hashes and arrays?
atrodo cotto_work> In what regard? 21:38
cotto_work what the syntax will look like and how structs will work
atrodo Currently, they are just PMC/Objects, accessed as such 21:39
as for structs, i have load/store ops
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cotto_work atrodo: do you have an way of defining structs or is the structure implicit? 21:48
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atrodo cotto_work> It's more implicit, like how C handles the structure of a struct/union. lasm has a way of defining it, but that's a convenience more than a definition. 21:50
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dukeleto atrodo: so where are you on your lorito roadmap? 22:13
bacek_at_work dukeleto, (tree-optimizations) I have no idea why it's failed. I'm simple "customer" of this code :) 22:14
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dukeleto bacek_at_work: you brake it you buy it! 22:19
bacek_at_work dukeleto, nope. You moved it from tcurstis in broken state! 22:20
dukeleto bacek_at_work: well, at least I tried :) 22:21
cotto_work anyone know of a good set of tools for managing screen sessions?
bacek_at_work dukeleto, at least I fixed one of broken tests :)
cotto_work, man screen?
cotto_work bacek_at_work: not awesome enough
PacoLinux cotto_work: you can try tmux.sourceforge.net/ 22:23
cotto_work I mean tools to manage sessions started with screen. I see a handful of projects on github, but I'm curious if anyone here has a favorite. 22:24
Coke cotto_work: ? 22:33
dukeleto cotto_work: what do you mean? 22:38
cotto_work: i just have one screen session per machine
cotto_work dukeleto: I usually have a large number. One for Parrot, one for Rakudo, etc 22:39
dukeleto cotto_work: you can use CTRL-a-" to name a screen terminal and CTRL-a-A shows a list of all the names (i have a list of the terms at the bottom of my screen screen as well)
dukeleto hopes those kb shortcuts are correct
cotto_work The names are helpful, but it'd also be nice if there were a tool to tell me which process were running under all sessions. I occasionally get into the situation where a vim session has a file open, but I don't recall which screen session it's under. 22:40
I started to write a script, but I thought I'd try the lazy approach first.
dukeleto cotto_work: oh, i used to feel that pain. Then I went back to a single screen session :)
cotto_work I'd get claustrophobic. 22:41
bacek_at_work cotto_work, I've got 6 virtual screens on my laptop. 4 of them have terminal with few tabs and gvim running :) 22:42
dukeleto cotto_work: github.com/leto/Util/blob/master/c...aliases#L1
cotto_work: you could easily fiddle with that alias to give it a named argument
cotto_work: currently i do: screenssh machinename
cotto_work: but you could to : screenssh screenname machinename
cotto_work: or somesuch
cotto_work I need to dig through your scripts and steal the useful-looking bits. 22:43
dukeleto cotto_work: Coke has started opening up github issues for my Util repo :)
cotto_work win
that's awesome 22:44
dukeleto cotto_work: github.com/leto/Util/blob/master/bin/screen
cotto_work: that is my screen wrapper
cotto_work I've only got my laptop at home, so I'm sure some of the stuff won't be as usefult o me
dukeleto cotto_work: github.com/leto/Util/blob/master/bin/setup_env 22:45
cotto_work: you could tweak that script to setup your work env :)
cotto_work: i have that script sitting somewhere accessible online, and I wget and execute it and it sets up my work environment on new boxes
cotto_work: it is a pretty useful thing to have. I wrote it when I had to setup the smokers 22:46
cotto_work shiny. I'm sure I'd do something similar if I ended up having to work on new machines frequently
dukeleto any more branches going to land today? You know you want to... 22:57
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cotto_work git is handling them like a dream 22:59
dukeleto indeed. git++ 23:03
cotto_work msg whiteknight Make sure to add some NEWS items about the stuff you merged. 23:10
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
dukeleto looks like we have some failures for plain parrots on master: smolder.parrot.org/app/projects/rep...tails/3740 23:12
PROTIP: a plain parrot is what the smokers call parrots with every --without-foo Configure.pl flag set 23:13
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dalek rrot: 004f53d | mikehh++ | compilers/imcc/main.c:
add ASSERT_ARGS
 23:17
rrot: 8f579d3 | mikehh++ | t/src/embed/api.t:
fix perlcritic failure - make bareword filehandle lexical
23:18 plobsing_ left 23:31 bluescreen left
dalek rrot: 92c952e | dukeleto++ | docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod:
[doc] Add release dates for the rest of the year
 23:37
rrot: 131c6c5 | dukeleto++ | docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod:
[doc] Sign up for 3.9 release manager
 23:40
rrot: 9f8e1de | cotto++ | docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod:
"volunteer" cotto for a couple releases
 23:44
23:47 hercynium left
dukeleto cotto must be a glutton for punishment ;) 23:49
cotto_work It's a good interval. 23:54
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