Parrot 3.10.0 "Apple Pi" | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot | #parrotsketch meeting Tuesday 19:30 UTC
Set by moderator on 22 November 2011.
whiteknight cotto: ping 00:08
cotto whiteknight: pong 00:09
whiteknight cotto: in TT # 67, what should the commandline flag be called? 00:10
I suggest --mem-limit=X
cotto whiteknight: that sounds unsurprising. I'd suggest using what jvm does, but -Xmx1234m is lta. 00:13
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whiteknight ...and it's a task 00:29
at least, the first half of it
cotto bam
whiteknight parsing the value and passing it through to the GC
cotto that's a good gci-type task 00:30
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whiteknight actually delving into the depths of the GC to add in the logic is more frightful 00:37
Maybe O'bacek Kenobi can come save us 00:38
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whiteknight We're up to 30 tasks 01:24
bacek_at_work whiteknight, it's kind of "impossible" to limit memory usage with current GC/guts design. 01:29
whiteknight Unfortunately, it's going to require a major refactor of *something* to do this
bacek_at_work: yeah, I'm seeing that now. We either need to add an interp parameter to mem_sys_* functions, or weneed to use a global 01:30
bacek_at_work whiteknight, which is suck big time
whiteknight yes, big time 01:41
so, for now we're just going to have a GCI student add the flag, and we can wire it in later, when we're drunk 01:42
Yuki`N drunk code is best code. 01:44
whiteknight msg dukeleto you have a pending Claim Request on a task you're mentoring. I don't want to accept it for you. 01:51
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
whiteknight cotto: what should the common function prefix be in src/interp/inter_misc.c? Parrot_interp_ or Parrot_int_ both seem fine to me 02:12
I'm going to create a task to rename them
I suppose src/interp/inter_create.c could have the same prefix 02:13
I wonder if we should merge the files
src/interp/api.c seems to follow conventions the best 02:15
cotto whiteknight: I like "interp". "int" sounds too much like the C type.
whiteknight good to me. I'm making the task 02:16
Yuki`N In NQP what's the difference between pir::load_bytecode and ::load_bytecode__ps
whiteknight Yuki`N: the later tells which types of arguments the opcode takes. 02:18
Yuki`N: the former tries to make an assumption, and may fail spectacularly
Yuki`N ah
hmm
whiteknight Yuki`N: there are two load_bytecode ops. One that takes a string, and the other takes a string and returns a PMC. the first letter is the return (p) and the rest of the letters are the arguments(s) 02:19
Yuki`N I'm trying to get Rosella to tell itself that it's in Rosella/rosella/**, not rosella/**
whiteknight Yuki`N: I think you can pass the -L option to winxed or parrot
-LRosella should do it
cotto: What's your opinion about merging inter_create.c and inter_misc.c into interp/api.c? 02:20
cotto whiteknight: sounds like a good gci task.
+1
Yuki`N parrot-nqp doesn't accept -L 02:21
that's a pain. 02:22
whiteknight it doesn't? That suxxors. We're going to have to add that
sounds like a new GCI task!
:)
Yuki`N lol
I'm already doing dukeleto's though. :(
cotto There might be a better way to break up functions in that code, but moving both into a single file is an improvement. 02:23
Yuki`N Where's the actual source for NQP? 02:28
cotto aloha: nqp?
aloha cotto: nqp is perl6, not perl5, if that makes any difference or an option
Yuki`N I'm looking in ext/nqp-rx and all I see are what I suspect to be automatically generated .pir files.
cotto Yuki`N: github.com/perl6/nqp
aloha: nqp is also github.com/perl6/nqp
aloha cotto: Okay.
Yuki`N Oh. 02:29
whiteknight Yuki`N: I don't think I understand what you are doing
or, what problem you are having
Yuki`N Well, I'm adding Rosella as a submodule in dukeleto's libgit2 bindings 02:30
Because it's required to run the test library.
But since Rosella is cloned into /Rosella, the path to the library files becomes /Rosella/rosella
And dynamic loading fails. 02:31
whiteknight ah, okay. So the test harness needs to be modified?
Yuki`N I suppose so.
whiteknight let me look at it
Yuki`N The easiest fix would to be change the harness to winxed.
github.com/nol888/parrot-libgit2/b.../t/harness
whiteknight Okay, yeah. I see it. Rosella::initialize_rosella assumes that things are in rosella/ 02:32
so, we need to change it to something like this:
my $rosella := pir::load_bytecode__ps('rosella/core.pbc'); 02:33
Rosella::initialize_rosella();
And then we need to load the harness library in manually:
Rosella::load_bytecode_file("Rosella/rosella/harness.pbc", "load"); 02:34
And I think that's all you need
Yuki`N What does initialize_rosella do? 02:39
whiteknight github.com/Whiteknight/Rosella/blo...inxed#L139 02:40
basically, it loads the library, and executes all the setup functions
Yuki`N meh 02:42
Even if the harness worked.
I tried rewriting the harness in winxed.
The Rosella harness library runs winxed code in its own environment, so it doesn't inherit library search paths. 02:43
Hence when the winxed test tries to load Rosella components, it fails too.
whiteknight oh crap, so every test is going to need to be updated with the same load preamble 02:45
I don't know how to fix that in a general way, since the tests probably execute as separate processes
so loading rosella in the harness won't cause it to be loaded correctly in each test
you're really going to earn some points with this task :) 02:46
Yuki`N lol dukeleto's only got it as a 2-pointer. 02:48
I've got Rosella building with libgit2
whiteknight nice
Yuki`N The only issue now is trying to get it recognized
so the tests actually run.
whiteknight I can't see any way around it, I think you're going to have to edit every test file
I don't think libgit2 has too many of them,but still it's tedious 02:49
Yuki`N There's only one test file, thankfull.
*thankfully 02:50
however, initialize_rosella() still tries to load 'rosella/core.pbc'
whiteknight Yuki`N: I can't change the points value on a task after it's been published
Yuki`N eh, I suppose it doesn't matter.
whiteknight okay, don't call initialize_rosella then
Yuki`N Can I call init_bytecode directly? 02:51
whiteknight Yeah, I think so. Pass in the return value from pir::load_bytecode__ps
parrot-nqp not accepting the -L option is a bit of a drag 02:52
okay, I'm heading to bed now. I'll be around in the morning for more questions and chat 02:54
Yuki`N Alright.
whiteknight goodnight, and goodluck
Yuki`N dukeleto, I've fixed up your build system for libgit2 quite a bit. 03:22
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cotto ~~ 03:27
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whiteknight good morning, #parrot 12:46
tadzik good morning whiteknight 12:49
whiteknight hello tadzik, how are you doing today? 12:58
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dalek sella/gh-pages: 57dfe15 | (Blaise Ritchie)++ | nl.winxed:
Added nl clone
 13:53
sella/gh-pages: 18c5165 | (Blaise Ritchie)++ | ls.winxed:
ls
sella/gh-pages: 3390389 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
Merge pull request #30 from rippinblaise/gh-pages

Add in nl and ls utility clones from blaise++
sella/gh-pages: 5f2bdb2 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
Add some forward declarations to the example programs to silence warnings
 14:01
sella/gh-pages: 1139036 | Whiteknight++ | / (6 files):
Move the two example programs, use them as includes in a new examples page
sella: 6522f99 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
A few tweaks to the sorting benchmark to clean up the display and make sure all the options are being compared.
sella: 7e1c8d8 | Whiteknight++ | / (4 files):
Add a .sort_self method to Query.Queryable to sort the data in-place instead of sorting an array copy.
sella/gh-pages: 2c2eec3 | Whiteknight++ | winxed/ (2 files):
Website fixes
 14:06
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dalek rrot: 0af3679 | mls++ | compilers/pct/src/PAST/Compiler.pir:
PCT: also use pop_upto_eh in loop generation code, so we can use next/last in inlined blockes with block handlers
 15:02
sella/gh-pages: 7cba405 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
Start rewriting the ls code example, to start showing a more idiosyncratic approach, and demonstrating more pervasive use of Rosella functionality
 15:23
sella/gh-pages: c97b376 | Whiteknight++ | _includes/ls.winxed:
A few more cleanups for the ls example
sella/gh-pages: 7ce11b2 | Whiteknight++ | _includes/ls.winxed:
Rewrite the ls example to use a stream. Use the sort and tap enhancements from master to fix formatting.
sella/gh-pages: 1cca843 | Whiteknight++ | winxed/examples.md:
Update the ls description for the website
sella: 300ea2c | Whiteknight++ | src/core/IteratorBase.winxed:
Implement a default, if naive, get_bool for IteratorBase
sella: a0d8e21 | Whiteknight++ | src/query/St (2 files):
Add skip counts to the Tap and ForEach stream stages.
sella: 019c767 | Whiteknight++ | src/query/ (3 files):
Add in a default sort comparer. Fix the qsort implementation so that it sorts things in the correct direction
sella: b6887f6 | Whiteknight++ | src/query/Stage.winxed:
We need to pop from the cache instead of shift from it in Stream.Stage.Sort to preserve the correct order
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blaise wow, took the task "implement smoothsort algorithm in winxed for rosella" for GCI not realizing it was the least documented algorithm on the internet 16:03
whiteknight you can't find enough information? I can't say I've ever researched it too deeply 16:04
blaise I found information
I looked into a couple other sorting algorithms, too
whiteknight is it enough to work with? We can pick a different algorithm if that one is too obscure
blaise this is the most complex andleast documented 16:05
no, I can do it
whiteknight From the description I saw, it seemed like it was a straight-forward extension to heapsort, but with weirdly-sized heaps
I suspect that I was mislead 16:06
blaise after you figure it out, it doesn't seem so hard
it's definitely weird
dukeleto ~~
whiteknight good morning duke
blaise it uses multiple heaps
dukeleto whiteknight: mornin'. Looks like the GCI force is strong this morning. 16:09
whiteknight dukeleto: sure is. I know Yuki'N was pushing forward with that libgit2 task, which you need to claim. And blaise++ here is some sort of miracle worker going crazy on a smoothsort implementation 16:10
dukeleto whiteknight: just assigned the task to Yuki`N 16:11
whiteknight dukeleto++
dukeleto blaise: i think i recognize your nick from last year as well 16:12
blaise worst case scenario: I can translate a java or C implementation
I wasn't in it last year
only just heard about it a week ago or so
whiteknight blaise: Well, we're glad you did!
dukeleto blaise: huh. well, welcome anyway! 16:14
whiteknight blaise: I don't know if you saw this example: www.keithschwarz.com/interesting/co...smoothsort
but there was an accompanying description on that website that was very informative 16:15
blaise I haven't seen that
whiteknight www.keithschwarz.com/smoothsort/
blaise reading that now
whiteknight yeah, looks like C++ code. NotFound, who wrote Winxed, is very influenced by C++ so a lot of the syntax should port over without too much effort 16:16
blaise probably the best description of smoothsort I found
whiteknight I'm surprised that it's so un-documented. Most of the work that Dijkstra did is usually celebrated and studied in detail
benabik Smoothsort visualization and python code: sortvis.org/algorithms/smoothsort.html
blaise winxed is dynamically typed, which makes making the algorithm applicable to many things pretty easy
in C++ you have to use templates or void pointers or something like that 16:17
I think I'll probably base it off of the python implementation 16:18
if I end up not just writing my own from scratch
NotFound whiteknight: there you can see the problem with iterators. With better parrot iterators porting that kind of stuff will be a lot easier.
whiteknight NotFound: Write up a design, and we'll do it
NotFound whiteknight: I usually design while coding :D 16:19
whiteknight NotFound: Write up some code and we'll say it was designed
blaise *looks at the python implementation in more detail 16:21
what's up with the trailingzeroes function?
NotFound An easy start can me just implementing increment, decrement and equal in current iterators.
s/me/be
tadzik whiteknight: not bad. A nice mix of hardcore classes and GCI reviews
dalek kudo/nom: 939696a | mls++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
use direct lexinfo access instead of calling get_lexinfo on the sub
 16:23
kudo/nom: bbf207c | mls++ | src/ (2 files):
Cleanup exception handling, so blocks with handlers can also be inlined.

Instead of perl6_rethrow_skipnextctx op, we now have the much nicer perl6_based_rethrow, which rethrows an exception in the context of another exception. To make blocks with both CATCH and CONTROL handlers work, we need another op to skip the "outer" handler if an exception is caught in the exception handler. I.e. a die() in a CONTROL handler must not be caught with a "parallel" CATCH handler.
kudo/nom: 4aac1bb | mls++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
Also inline blocks with exception handlers
kudo/nom: 656ff52 | mls++ | src/ (3 files):
Add "outer" control handler, make most uncaught control exceptions fatal. Make warn() throw a control exception, use CONTROL_OK for now.
kudo/nom: a81cc6e | mls++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
remove the do_not_inline hint, it doesn't seem to be needed. jnthn++
kudo/nom: fec538b | tadzik++ | src/ (6 files):
Merge pull request #41 from mlschroe/newexcept

Newexcept
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blaise "okay, this seems pretty straightforward, not too hard to implement. not sure why all those implementations looked so weird" *reads memory usage reduction optimizations* "oh..." 16:44
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whiteknight blaise: for this task, we don't need optimizations. Whatever is the most straight-foward implemenation of the algorithm is fine 16:45
tadzik what task is it?
whiteknight tadzik: implementing smoothsort in winxed for rosella
tadzik nice 16:46
whiteknight yeah, I'm excited about it. 16:47
I plan for rosella to provide a handful of sort-related routines. There will be a quicksort default, but you'll be able to specify a different algorithm if you suspect the data has certain characteristics 16:49
blaise made me a timsort implementation which is already about 90% faster than other alternatives if the array is mostly-sorted
blaise that was Yuki`N 16:50
whiteknight oh. Shit, right
sorry
of course, the timsort is about 15% slower than quicksort if the data is a jumble 16:51
blaise not according to wikipedia, it says quicksort's worst case is O(n^2) and timsort is O(n*lg(n)) 16:52
whiteknight quicksort's worst case scenario happens when the data is mostly ordered already, and when the pivot is selected in the worst possible way
if the data is random and the pivot is selected intellgently, quicksort is at it's best 16:53
timsort, meanwhile, has a worst case scenario when the data is completely random, and a best case when the data is mostly sorted
and actually, my quicksort cheats and switches to insertion sort for subarrays smaller than about 6 items, so the pathological behavior is eliminated 16:55
blaise so without memory optimizations, the smoothsort has O(lg(n)) memory usage, but with optimizations, has O(1) 16:56
dukeleto this early history of programming languages by Knuth looks to be a good read: twitter.com/#!/CompSciFact/status/...5475048448
whiteknight that's fine. a little memory usage isn't bad. We can optimize it later
dukeleto: he better get his ass back to the typewriter and finish the last few volumes of taocp 16:57
blaise the optimization to eliminate that memory usage is pretty weird
whiteknight blaise: all optimizations are weird, just to different degrees :)
blaise bitwise operations instead of storing a few numbers in an array 16:58
I think I could modify these optimizations a bit to make more sense, but I could be wrong 16:59
oh, did my ls clone show hidden files and folders? I guess I didn't test it in directories with hidden files/folders 17:02
wow, that would have been easy to fix if I knew it was there
whiteknight yeah, it's no big deal. 17:12
I wanted to play around with that example this morning, so I was testing it and poking at it 17:13
that python implementation does seem relatively short, even if it's not clear what the hell is happening 17:23
blaise yeah, I think they used the memory optimizations
thus how the code makes no sense 17:24
whiteknight gotcha
What I think we really need to do for that ls implementation is link to libcurses and start using some color codes 17:26
I'm actually interested to see how far we can grow it
blaise tried the python implementation, it complained that lst has no member "log" 17:28
because arrays/lists don't have a log function
not sure what that's supposed to be
whiteknight I think that's the function he uses to sample the data and produce those graphs 17:29
you probably need to connect to his visualization library to use that
blaise oh, that would be a problem
whiteknight yeah, so you can probably just take out the .log() calls
blaise yeah, that worked 17:30
whiteknight good 17:32
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blaise it's fast, too 17:36
not quite as fast as the built-in sorting, but what can you expect? 17:37
whiteknight yeah, it's all a matter of the right data sets. Smoothsort is going to do well in some situations and bad in others. 17:40
blaise I'm randomly generating the list to test sorting
whiteknight yeah, smoothsort should still work, but it won't be super-fast in those cases 17:41
blaise I probably could directly translate the python implementation into winxed
if there's bitwise operations and such
whiteknight if that's the easiest, go for it
yeah, winxed has a complete set of bitwise ops
blaise I'll start with that, and then see if I can make it more comprehensible 17:42
whiteknight blaise++
blaise so no global variables? 17:56
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blaise nevermind, found const 18:01
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blaise "Value for const is not evaluable at compile time near LP"? 18:10
code is: "const int LP = [1, 1, ... 535828591, 866988873];" 18:11
whiteknight what are you trying to const? I think it only works for strings, ints, and floats
blaise ints
whiteknight oh, an array of them
I don't think you can const that
Wrap your sorter in a class, and add an attribute to hold that array 18:12
dalek TT #1610 closed by whiteknight++: Parrot_compile_string does not properly catch errors thrown by causing ... 18:26
TT #1610: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1610
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blaise can arrays not be const? 18:29
sorear blaise: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/2011-11-23#i_4748864
blaise router got unplugged, so I timed out without noticing 18:30
it is in a class
sorear yes, but we have logs you can read
blaise cool, anyway, it's in a class, and I removed the const 18:31
and changed type to var, but I guess I need to initalize it somewhere else? 18:32
"set_attr_str() not implemented in class 'ResizableStringArray'" 18:36
wish it was giving me a line number for that error
not compile-time, though
cotto ~~ 18:45
blaise it is now, but I still have no idea how to fix that error, this should be using "ResizablePMCArray" 18:47
whiteknight blaise: nopaste your code? 18:52
blaise I just switched to using a temporary variable to store it in each function
that can be dealt with later, currently just testing the implementation
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blaise "too few positional arguments: 3 passed, 4 (or more) expected" 18:59
for a call to a 3-argument function
whiteknight is it a function or a method? 19:04
method expects obj.foo()
blaise function
whiteknight is it inside a class {} block?
blaise yes
whiteknight then it's a method
it's confusing
blaise oh, that's strange
pastebin.com/Cd1Q7vJJ 19:05
^ the code
whiteknight yeah, all calls to the trinkle and sift methods need to self.trinkle() and self.sift() 19:10
blaise ah, alright
whiteknight and self.trailingzeros
blaise okay, now no errors, it just doesn't sort correctly 19:13
whiteknight well, no errors is a big step! 19:18
blaise elements(lst) is the equivalent to len(lst) in python, right? 19:19
whiteknight elements([5, 6, 7, 8]) == 4
I don't know what len(lst) does it python, exactly 19:20
blaise okay
oh yeah, != is ~= in winxed, isn't it? 19:21
whiteknight nope, !=
blaise oh
is it ~= in lua or something?
I know I used ~= in a new language in the last few days
whiteknight perl?
blaise I didn't write any perl recently
atrodo perl is =~
whiteknight Then I don't know.
atrodo and means something completely different 19:22
NotFound In winxed ~ is bitwise not, ~= is nothing. 19:23
blaise wait, is ^ bitwise XOR? 19:24
NotFound blaise: yes 19:25
blaise okay, wonder what's wrong with this code, then...
NotFound blaise: better use int instead of var, some operators are not well tested for var. 19:26
blaise okay, I'll try to change all the ones necessary
whiteknight NotFound: ...you know, it would make a good GCI task to add tests for those operators...
NotFound whiteknight: not a bad idea. 19:27
blaise how much of this is pass by reference and how much is pass by value? 19:28
whiteknight if it's var, it's pass by reference.
int are pass by value
blaise okay. I'll go see what python does
whiteknight of course, int is just integers
NotFound That depends on what you do with the var. If you assign to it, the reference to the original is lost. 19:29
whiteknight ah, right 19:30
NotFound But you can use the =: operator.
whiteknight I keep forgetting about that thing
blaise there, now only uses var when necessary 19:31
works now :D 19:32
whiteknight awesome
pull request! pull request!
blaise: and you can tell your algorithms professor that you implemented a smoothsort, and he'll say "what's a smoothsort?" 19:33
blaise where should I put it? I ended up putting it in a new file, is that alright?
whiteknight blaise: can you add it to benchmarks/query/sort.winxed?
blaise also, I'll be implementing this in C and studying it further in the near future
whiteknight It's a large, comparative benchmark that I'm keeping track of various algorithms in
blaise sure, I'll just add the class to it
whiteknight awesome
you can comment some other things out, or decrease the N value if you want to run it and not waste a lot of time 19:34
blaise oh yeah, wanted to get the class-wide variable thing working for LP and MultiplyDeBruijnBitPosition
I'll just leave what I had for that commented out for now 19:35
dukeleto whiteknight++ # gci task whisperer 19:37
whiteknight dukeleto: We're at 35 now. I want 15 more in the next few days
I think that's a very reasonable goal
dukeleto whiteknight: i don't have time to add more tasks now, but I will soon 19:38
whiteknight: are you keeping a list of them in a repo somewhere?
whiteknight: i can give you a commit bit on my gci.git if you want
whiteknight I haven't been keeping track of them separately, no 19:39
we can csv export the list that's here
blaise pull requested 19:42
whiteknight awesome! Give me a minute to look over the code and i'll close the task 19:44
mark the task ready for review 19:45
blaise marked as complete 19:47
whiteknight completed successfully. Congratulations
blaise how complex is the mersenne twister algorithm? 19:48
whiteknight blaise: not too bad, I don't think. Mostly algebra, integer operators, etc
not nearly so complicated as a sort like smoothsort 19:49
blaise oh, it's already taken
or has melange just stopped me from taking multiple tasks at once? 19:51
dukeleto whiteknight: are you on the smoothsort pull request? 19:53
whiteknight yeah 19:54
I'm not going to merge it yet, I think I created some kind of conflict
blaise: I think you can only have one task at a time 19:55
blaise: the mersenne one is still open
cotto yes. That's intentional in gci.
blaise oh, I could have more than one before
I'll just go finish that other one, then see if the mersenne one is still open
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blaise by the way, it is ~= in perl 20:13
lua*
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dalek p/nci: a2d4ea1 | jnthn++ | src/ops/nqp_dyncall.ops:
Start to get string passing in place; support a choice of ways to encode the string being passed. Note that memory management not done yet.
 20:27
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dalek p/nci: 060905c | tadzik++ | 3rdparty/dyncall-0.6/dynload/dynload_syms_elf.c:
Fix some compilation issues on gcc
 21:09
p/nci: cef885f | jnthn++ | src/ops/nqp_dyncall.ops:
Add a way to free any C strings we pass; always do it initially.
 21:18
p/nci: c490223 | jnthn++ | src/6model/reprs/NativeCall.c:
Don't leak library names.
p/nci: 3255210 | jnthn++ | src/ops/nqp_dyncall.ops:
Enable control over whether we free strings after passing them.
p/nci: 7b8dfa4 | jnthn++ | src/ops/nqp_dyncall.ops:
Avoid allocating 0 bytes on argumentless call.
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dalek kudo/nom: e3246ea | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/ (2 files):
Fix postcircumfix:<( )> overriding issue.
 22:10
dukeleto msg whiteknight melange somehow will not let me close a task that you are the sole mentor for, so I can't close www.google-melange.com/gci/task/vie...11/7170203 22:12
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
dukeleto blarg
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dukeleto all gci tasks going forward should just have all mentors listed 22:15
so anybody can close a task. Sigh.
dalek p/nci: da7528a | jnthn++ | tools/build/Makefile.in:
Install the dyncall oplib.
 22:29
p/nci: f7e601c | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
Little refactor - we now pass in the object already initialized to build the native call site in. More flexible.
kudo/nci: c4ae651 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/SymbolTable.pm:
Add loading code for native call ops.
 22:46
kudo/nci: f50ef0e | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
Add userland support for box_target trait, which we need for NCI module.
23:03 bluescreen_ joined, bluescreen joined 23:31 Yuki`N joined
Yuki`N dukeleto, ping 23:31
dukeleto Yuki`N: pong but leaving soon 23:32
Yuki`N dukeleto, finished the task.
(before you accepted it, actually) 23:33
Review/accept at leisure. www.google-melange.com/gci/task/vie...11/7132336 23:36
23:37 ingy joined

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