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Parrot 4.1.0 "Black-headed Parrot" | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot | #parrotsketch meeting Tuesday 19:30 UTC Set by moderator on 28 February 2012. |
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| whiteknight | hello dukeleto | 00:23 | |
| we should find out tomorrow whether we are in GSOC | |||
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| benabik | ~~ | 03:34 | |
| msg whiteknight "shotgun cleanup" is such a wonderful phrase. I still like "refactoring with fire" | 03:40 | ||
| aloha | OK. I'll deliver the message. | ||
| benabik | msg whiteknight The Parrot_pfw_ API sounds sane to me. | 03:41 | |
| aloha | OK. I'll deliver the message. | ||
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| dalek | kudo/nom: 8c7747b | moritz++ | docs/ChangeLog: [ChangeLog]: note that scoped multis now die |
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| bacek | ~~ | 08:50 | |
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| not_gerd | hello, #parrot | 12:05 | |
| bacek: what do you think about using a single, shared call context per thread for passing information down the call graph instead of re-using the parent one? | 12:06 | ||
| Coke is glad to see some technical discussion on list. | 12:07 | ||
| even if it seems to not be happening in the same room yet. | |||
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| dalek | p: 07ce402 | (Gerhard R)++ | src/6model/base64. (2 files): Make base64.[ch] compile with new error levels |
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| p: ffd778a | moritz++ | src/6model/base64. (2 files): Merge pull request #31 from gerdr/gerdr/cleanup Make base64.[ch] compile with new error levels |
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| allison | not_gerd: Parrot's CallContexts are just the same as old-fashioned call stack frames | 13:23 | |
| not_gerd: there is some data that you need to store for each call that you make | |||
| not_gerd: it's a small amount of data, but it's also unique to each call, so every call needs one | 13:24 | ||
| ttbot | Parrot d296f64f i386-linux-thread-multi make error tt.taptinder.org/cmdinfo/72826 | 13:40 | |
| Parrot d923903b i386-freebsd-64int make error tt.taptinder.org/cmdinfo/72837 | 13:43 | ||
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| not_gerd | allison: what I'm getting at is that the caller only needs to pass the information necessary to create a CallContext to the callee, but that can be done without actually allocating a new one (more) | 13:52 | |
| allison: the long term goal could be to get rid of call contextx altogether and instead us reserved registers, ie the caller puts the necessary information into a thread-local location, and the callee moves it to a set of reserved registers | 13:54 | ||
| allison | There was a time that Parrot passed arguments in reserved registers | ||
| but, it was problematic, for several reasons | 13:55 | ||
| partly, it burned through registers | |||
| partly, it triggered register spilling (which is expensive) with far greater frequency | 13:56 | ||
| partly, it meant we had to allocate registers sooner | |||
| partly, it meant that even simply asynchronous calls (not even full concurrency) were unsafe | 13:57 | ||
| partly, it made continuations very expensive | 13:58 | ||
| because taking a continuation meant snapshotting all active registers so they could be restored later | |||
| (and restoring them later had a nasty habit of trashing active registers that were still needed) | 13:59 | ||
| dalek | p: fdec156 | moritz++ | tools/build/PARROT_REVISION: bump parrot revision just to get some better testing of newer birds, no specific reason |
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| kudo/nom: 40b20ca | moritz++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION: bump NQP revision to get NQP build fixes by not_gerd++ |
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| dalek | kudo/nom: 16bf0f4 | moritz++ | src/ops/perl6.ops: unbreak the build. |
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| Coke | sounds like the recent CFLAGS changes have broken dyncall. | 17:29 | |
| moritz is about to open an issue | 17:32 | ||
| Coke | moritz++ | 17:33 | |
| I'm pretty sure those changes are just to make porting easier, so if they break something, reverting them should be OK. | |||
| but if it's not a rush, we should ping alester. | |||
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| whiteknight | Parrot is accepted into GSOC 2012 | 17:55 | |
| tadzik | \\o/ | ||
| whiteknight | hello tadzik | ||
| I just got the email. | |||
| tadzik | 'ello whiteknight | ||
| I can see you're in a different timezone. Here it says that orgs will be announced in an hour and 4 minutes :) | 17:56 | ||
| whiteknight | They are probably reviewing and accepting them on a rolling basis | 17:57 | |
| tadzik | no, it must be timezones | ||
| aloha | (parrot/parrot) Issues opened : 735 (adding -Werror=strict-prototypes to CFLAGS breaks nqp build on some platforms) by moritz : github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/735 | 17:58 | |
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| aloha | (parrot/parrot) Issues opened : 736 ("perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot" fails) by parthm : github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/736 | 18:08 | |
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| parth | Hello. I am trying to build a language shell created with create_language.pl. | 18:21 | |
| whiteknight | parth: yes, I just saw the ticket | 18:22 | |
| what kind of a language are you working on? | |||
| moritz | fwiw it seems that cloning parrot fails | ||
| parth | hi whiteknight: i am exploring the possibility of creating an experimental smalltalk variant. | 18:23 | |
| whiteknight | parth: oh, awesome | ||
| moritz | it might help to use the git:// URL instead of the https URL | ||
| parth | i tried using --parrot-config option. that seems to fail too pastebin.com/K4KUBvKV is this expected? | ||
| whiteknight | oh, okay, do you have Parrot installed? | 18:24 | |
| parth | i haven't installed it. i just built the downloaded tarball. | 18:25 | |
| whiteknight | Can you try to "make install" it? | ||
| I think create_language.pl is looking for the installed binary, not the local one | |||
| parth | mortiz: https seems to work ok from the command prompt using git pastebin.com/HzYb3SPG | ||
| whiteknight: yup. i was hoping it would pick up the one built. is this by design? | 18:26 | ||
| whiteknight | parth: I don't think so. Looks like a bug to me | ||
| parth: We can fix the script, but if you install parrot you shouldn't have to wait | 18:27 | ||
| parth | whiteknight: i will go ahead and file it. yes. will try with install. | ||
| whiteknight: thanks for verifying this. | 18:28 | ||
| whiteknight | thanks. Good luck! Let us know if you have any questions | ||
| Coke | whiteknight: i am tentatively interested in being a mentor. | 18:31 | |
| whiteknight | Coke++ | 18:32 | |
| Coke: And I hope we can pair you up with somebody awesome | |||
| aloha | (parrot/parrot) Issues opened : 737 ("perl Configure.pl --parrot-config <path>" looks for parrot-nqp in /usr/local/bin) by parthm : github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/737 | 18:33 | |
| Coke | either way I hope to do a better job personally than I did last year. | 18:35 | |
| cotto | ~~ | ||
| Coke | wait, high school students can apply? | 18:36 | |
| I thought that was GCI. | |||
| I thought you had to be college aged for GSOC. | |||
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| whiteknight | Coke: I'll have to go back and look at the requirements, I thought that highschool kids could apply | 18:38 | |
| is github crapping out for anybody else? I'm having trouble loading pages | 18:39 | ||
| moritz | yes | 18:44 | |
| whiteknight | okay, good. The network here at work is terrible, so if it was just me I would have to go yell at somebody | 18:45 | |
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| whiteknight | Coke: must be at least 18. Otherwise can be in (or recently graduated from) highschool or college | 19:10 | |
| Coke | TPF didn't make it into GSOC this year. | ||
| that's... odd. | |||
| whiteknight | lolwat? That stinks | ||
| cotto | That's most surprising. | ||
| whiteknight | did they apply? | ||
| Coke | aye. | 19:11 | |
| whiteknight | If Rakudo has any project ideas, I suspect we can offer those under our name | ||
| Coke | we'll find out after the irc meeting next week. | ||
| whiteknight: aye. | |||
| (the more projects the better.) | 19:12 | ||
| whiteknight | yes, and the bigger the supply of mentors, the better | ||
| last year we had just a few too few mentors, and at least one project couldn't be taken because of that | |||
| not that all available mentors are interested in all available proposals | 19:13 | ||
| moritz | I'm happy to mentor any Perl 6 stuff under the umbrella of PaFo, though I'll understand it if you want to reserve your slots for stuff that's more directly related to parrot | 19:15 | |
| dalek | p: 99f34ab | (Gerhard R)++ | 3rdparty/dyncall/GNUmakefile: Temporary fix for dyncall build failure See github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/735 |
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| whiteknight | moritz++ | 19:32 | |
| ...and so it begins. The shitstorm of open-source developers who criticize everything google does during GSOC because some people don't know how to graciously accept charity | |||
| sorear | whiteknight: are you saying that in a way that includes the reactions on #parrot and #perl6? | 19:34 | |
| whiteknight | sorear: no, on the gsoc mailing list | ||
| sorear | ok. | 19:35 | |
| Coke | bunchawhiners, summathem. | ||
| whiteknight | Every day during GSOC and GCI those lists get bullshit complainy emails. "Your form isn't intuitive", "the wording on your website is weird", "I wish the data would fill in automatically", "Can you make an aesthetic change?" | ||
| Coke | granted, email makes them sound worse, but they should try to compensate for that. | 19:36 | |
| sorear | I find that generally the people who complain most annoyingly are people I don't care to listen to in the first place | ||
| whiteknight | it's bugging me that TPF didn't get in | ||
| sorear | (mlehmann being the main exception) | 19:37 | |
| whiteknight | unless their application was woefully underwhelming or something | ||
| "We're perl. Maybe you've heard of us. We're kind of a big deal" | |||
| sorear | (probably some of you will disagree with me about mlehmann being worth listening to) | ||
| whiteknight | sorear: I'm not sure I know who that is | ||
| sorear | JSON::XS, AnyEvent, Coro, rxvt-unicode, libevent | 19:38 | |
| whiteknight | oh, okay | 19:39 | |
| Coke | I only know mlehmann from his responses on [perl #108470] | 19:42 | |
| awwaiid | whiteknight, also libev (foundation of node.js), unicode-rxvt | 19:45 | |
| sorear | I meant libev, yes | 19:47 | |
| benabik | o/ | 19:55 | |
| whiteknight | benabik! | 20:06 | |
| benabik | \\o/ whiteknight! | ||
| Unless I broke something, in which case... | |||
| not_benabik | I wasn't here. | ||
| whiteknight | benabik: start getting your project idea together. We're going full-throttle this summer | ||
| sleep and meal breaks are for the weak | 20:07 | ||
| benabik | Well, I've got a plan already in place for not having any sleep. | ||
| Coke | ah, for me that was this week! | ||
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| benabik | I'm going to have to be careful what I promise this summer. My thesis is probably going to run a little long and then who knows what'll happen with the kiddo. | 20:11 | |
| benabik would rather aim a little low and overshoot than the other way around. | 20:12 | ||
| whiteknight | okay, we'll recalibrate expectations later. Today is for celebrating! | 20:13 | |
| benabik | \\o/ | ||
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| whiteknight | anyway, time to go. I'll be back online tonight | 20:27 | |
| ttbot | Parrot 8032bfa2 darwin-thread-multi-2level make error tt.taptinder.org/cmdinfo/73062 | 20:28 | |
| mj41 | Hi. Ignore the last ttbot message. I'm trying to setup MacOS client. | 20:42 | |
| cotto | phew | 20:43 | |
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| mj41 | tt client machine macos is back tt.taptinder.org/buildstatus/parrot/master | 21:09 | |
| dukeleto | ~~ | 21:18 | |
| blarg | 21:21 | ||
| benabik | dukeleto: ? | ||
| dukeleto | benabik: my irc proxies were fighting, better now :) | 21:22 | |
| benabik | dukeleto: You? IRC problems? Never. ;-) | 21:24 | |
| davidfetter wonders what the other duke leto would have done about duelling proxies | 21:30 | ||
| dukeleto | Yeah, i need to find something better than dircproxy, or change the default settings. | 21:32 | |
| davidfetter | for some reason, dircproxy reminds me of "team america: world police" | 21:33 | |
| benabik | One of these days I'm going to get up znc on my server. | 21:39 | |
| Mostly because it supports push notifications to my phone. | |||
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| cotto | dukeleto: how'd dircproxy deficient? | 22:35 | |
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| dukeleto | cotto: the default behavior to is autoreconnect, which is useful, unless you leave an irc window open somewhere and then open another | 22:41 | |
| cotto: then the irc clients fight to the death forever disconnecting each other | |||
| cotto: this happens when i leave my irc client open on my desktop at home and then try to get on irc on my laptop | |||
| cotto | yeah. lta | 22:42 | |
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| whiteknight | good evening, #parrot | 22:59 | |
| benabik | evening! | ||
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| whiteknight | hello benabik | 23:08 | |
| dukeleto | whiteknight: congrats on getting us into gsoc! | 23:13 | |
| whiteknight++ | |||
| whiteknight | Thanks! | ||
| davidfetter | who's all using parrot in production? | 23:14 | |
| dukeleto | davidfetter: what does "in production" mean" ;) | 23:18 | |
| davidfetter: i use it to produce bytecode every day! | |||
| davidfetter | dukeleto, i'm pretty sure you know what i mean | 23:19 | |
| cotto | I'm not aware of any production users. | ||
| benabik | You can be one of the first! How exciting! | 23:20 | |
| dukeleto | davidfetter: yeah, maybe you can ask VMware if they want to use Parrot in production... | 23:31 | |
| davidfetter: do you have suggestions about who are first prod users could be? | |||
| davidfetter: is it PL/Parrot, maybe? | |||
| davidfetter: or something else? | |||
| davidfetter | dukeleto, i need an elevator pitch, and i don't have one | 23:32 | |
| partly because i don't know enough about parrot | |||
| dukeleto | davidfetter: that is the hard part. Parrot is an enabling technology, but I am not sure what kind of elevator pitch Parrot core would have | 23:35 | |
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| dukeleto | davidfetter: an app built on parrot could have a good elevator pitch, though | 23:35 | |
| davidfetter: i still have high hopes for parrot in the mobile and embedded world | 23:36 | ||
| davidfetter: "We make bytecode so you don't have to" | |||
| davidfetter | i've got a perl6 pitch: grammars | ||
| benabik | We'd have to be a bit more svelte for mobile. | ||
| dukeleto | davidfetter: "We wrote 5 garbage collectors so you don't have to" | ||
| benabik: yeah, i have a plan for parrot "flavors" | |||
| benabik: parrot is already more svelte than perl5 | 23:37 | ||
| benabik | When trying to explain Parrot during my interviews, I explained it as bootstrapping. Doing all the hard parts for new languages: portability, libraries, GC. | ||
| davidfetter | benabik, my mobile phone kicks the butt of the server systems i had running 10 years back. i think the "svelte" part's overrated | ||
| dukeleto | davidfetter: a good point, indeed | 23:41 | |
| davidfetter | "it's not fatter than perl5" is damning with faint praise, and it's definitely not an elevator pitch | 23:42 | |
| dukeleto | davidfetter: indeed, again | ||
| davidfetter: "Parrot is a toolbox for language and DSL development" | 23:43 | ||
| whiteknight: feel free to put me down as backup admin/mentor for gsoc | 23:44 | ||
| whiteknight: if you haven't already :) | |||