Parrot 4.3.0 "In Which..." | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot | #parrotsketch meeting Tuesday 19:30 UTC
Set by moderator on 25 April 2012.
whiteknight bacek_at_work: I don't think it's a problem 00:00
bacek_at_work whiteknight, which one?
whiteknight aloha saying karma values 00:04
benabik whiteknight: You appear to be in the minority.
I was thrown off by it, but there seems to be active vitriol towards it elsewhere. 00:05
whiteknight where, in #perl6? 00:06
benabik I seem to recall some complaints here, but definitely there, yes
Coke I'd rather not have it announced, myself.
whiteknight that's fine too. I won't argue about it 00:13
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cotto ~~ 00:34
nbrown hey cotto, I saw you were looking for me 00:38
cotto nbrown, yup. been thinking about m0's memory model 00:45
I might be making it out to be more complex than necessary. lemme find my gist
raw.github.com/gist/2581153/8e546e...stions.txt 00:46
nbrown glad someone has been. I got buried this week and am slowly finding my way ou
cotto no worries
nbrown first thing, I don't think there's any point to having S type constants, do you? 00:47
cotto they're shorthand for p 00:48
we could have INPP 00:49
or have then not be typed at all
i.e. Rn could be any of insp
nbrown oops, I really meant P, not S
cotto P will be useful once we have a meaningful way of representing objects 00:50
nbrown so P would be for a serialized object?
cotto it'd be an active object
well, a pointer to one
nbrown but isn't a constants section read out of a m0b file? 00:51
cotto they have a runtime meaning too
nbrown m0 doesn't really have objects
cotto or will
nbrown I don't think I understand the runtime meaning of the constants section
*segment 00:52
I thought the segment was simply a representation of the constants in the m0b file
cotto yes, that's the role of the constants segment
nbrown ok. I was getting mildly confused between the constants segment and the data segment 00:53
cotto SP registers can point at entries in the constants table or at dynamic objects in the data segment
nbrown right, I'm getting the hang of it now. I was misinterpreting things 00:55
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nbrown btw, I really want to write an m0 debugger, I just haven't been sure how to do it yet 00:58
cotto I'd love you forever.
nbrown Everytime I've had to debug an m0 test file I've wanted one oh so badly 00:59
cotto you and me both
nbrown :) 01:00
cotto I wonder if named registers would be a bad idea.
nbrown so on the recursion thing, where would we store the state if we clone after entering? another callframe? 01:01
I understand the appeal of named registers, but I see them just complicating anything that wants to generate m0
cotto the current callframe's PCF points at the callframe that called it 01:02
(need to verify, but the poke_caller test does this)
nbrown the poke_caller test populates the new callframe prior to entering 01:03
cotto ah. I see the question
nbrown I was trying to understand what you meant when you said leftover state 01:04
cotto actually, I can see it working like it does now 01:05
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nbrown ok, I think the current approach works pretty well 01:06
so on the unresolved questions, if the global data is purely runtime, how do we access it? 01:09
and how much gets allocated? 01:10
cotto it'd fit nicely with the other global interp info 01:12
CONFIG, ARGV, ARGC, etc
nbrown right, but those are all known at load time 01:13
I guess we can deal with it the same way we deal with the data segment
fixed size or grow as needed 01:14
cotto yes
nbrown ok
Your gist seems pretty on point to me 01:15
I don't think you're making it too comlpex 01:16
cotto how about sbrk?
and implementing virtual memory?
nbrown I don't know enough about it
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cotto (either that or realloc) 01:16
nbrown I would have used realloc since I know that 01:17
I don't see a way around it if we allow the data segment and global data to grow
cotto yes
if realloc doesn't move memory, it'll work nicely 01:18
nbrown I believe it may
cotto realloc would at least be a good first approximation
nbrown I just looked it up and it says that it can move the memory block to a new location 01:19
I'll go read up on sbrk
cotto sbrk is what malloc is implemented on top of 01:21
basically increases the amount of memory available to a process
nbrown ok
makes sense to me 01:22
so which part were you concerned you werw overthinking? 01:23
cotto implementing a virtual memory system
if I get to that point, it makes me think that something is wrong
nbrown fair enough, so if we step back: can we just have an array of data sections? 01:26
use the malloc / gc_alloc ops to generate new data segments?
cotto possible 01:27
interesting idea
nbrown it's far simpler
cotto I'm not sure about it being *far* simpler than just using realloc to expand the data segment, but the idea definitely is worth considering 01:28
nbrown yeah, as I'm thinking about it *far* is *far* too strong a word 01:29
:)
but it would allow a faster prototype to play with
scratch that, I meant allow us to write a prototype faster 01:30
cotto so how would you point to byte 32 in data segment 4? 01:31
nbrown so the part that was starting to trip me up was the array of pointers to data segments.... 01:32
is it something that's fixed size?
cotto I was jus tthinking about that 01:33
there'd need to be a way to expand it
expanding it implicitly is an option, but that's also slightly magical 01:34
nbrown we'd need something like a directory segment to point data segments, but that's difficult to grow
cotto it could look like cf[DATA][n] 01:36
realloc for that would probably be workable, but that's one of the side-effects that M0 should avoid if at all possible 01:37
nbrown yeah
if we preallocate space for a decent number of data segment pointers, it's likely we could avoid it 01:38
maybe we could even allow the user to specify the # of desired data segments in the m0 file to help avoid the realloc case 01:39
something like .num_data_segments 20
or whatever
cotto I'm still not quite sold on it. 01:40
nbrown and if the user didn't provide anything m0 has some reasonable default
me neither
cotto flat memory is very non-magical
nbrown flat memory? 01:41
cotto a single data segment that needs to be manually expanded and shrunk
nbrown I don't think the array of data segments needs to be magical 01:42
dalek kudo/nom: 7eae9b2 | pmichaud++ | src/ (2 files):
Fix [|] and [&] to provide flat junctions (RT #112696, masak++).
 01:43
cotto a better word would be "simple"
nbrown yes, I'd agree with that
generating code for multiple data segments would be more complicated 01:44
hmmm, I'm coming back around to the virtual memory idea 01:49
accessing/writing data in multiple data segments would be not a lot of fun 01:51
dalek kudo/nom: 2d2584a | pmichaud++ | src/core/metaops.pm:
Implement triangle forms for junction reducers: [\\|] and [\\&]
 02:06
rurban_home github.com/parrot/parrot/pull/762 03:33
aloha (parrot/parrot) Issues opened : 762 (mark stack-overflow gc for clang -faddress-sanitizer) by rurban : github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/762 03:38
dalek rrot: 7433886 | rurban++ | src/gc/system.c:
mark stack-overflow gc for clang -faddress-sanitizer

  clang.llvm.org/docs/AddressSanitizer.html fails in
trace_mem_block() with a stack invalid READ, which is actually valid in our GC
  . Since this is the only function we just use the recommended detection and attribute
here once.		 03:52
rrot: 68a170c | jimmy++ | src/gc/system.c:
Merge pull request #762 from rurban/master

mark stack-overflow gc for clang -faddress-sanitizer
aloha (parrot/parrot) Issues closed : 762 (mark stack-overflow gc for clang -faddress-sanitizer) by rurban : github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/762
ttbot Parrot 68a170c4 i386-linux-thread-multi make error tt.taptinder.org/cmdinfo/81818 03:58
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travis-ci [travis-ci] parrot/parrot#284 (master - 68a170c : Jimmy Zhuo): The build was broken. 04:05
[travis-ci] Change view : github.com/parrot/parrot/compare/b......68a170c
[travis-ci] Build details : travis-ci.org/parrot/parrot/builds/1242128
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alester hey rurban the 7433886ded3df005351e9a0c087ef674771b3488 change to src/gc/system.c breaks my GCC build 04:22
benabik It broke gcc and g++ on travis as well 04:24
alester I think we ought to flag attributes using the same technique in include/parrot/compiler.h for PARROT_PURE_FUNCTION and the like.
so that the detail of __attribute__((no_address_safety_analysis)) can be hidden in a macro
I'm watching a movie for the next half hour if you'd like to discuss. 04:25
benabik Given that we might want to handle the flag differently and that it breaks gcc/g++, perhaps we should revert the change? 04:29
alester I don't have a strong feeling either way. 04:31
But I'm writing to parrot-dev right now how I suggest we do it going forward.
benabik alester++ 04:32
alester ok sent 04:36
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cotto ~~ 06:04
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moritz \\o 08:10
brrt \\o
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bacek_at_work jfyi about C99 in VC++ herbsutter.com/2012/05/03/reader-qa...-c99/?nope 09:36
answer is "no"
long answer is "We recommend that C developers use the C++ compiler to compile C code (using /TP if the file is named something.c). This is the best choice for using Visual C++ to compile C code."
moritz meh. 09:37
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dalek rrot: 1eff807 | NotFound++ | src/gc/system.c:
fix check for address_sanitizer feature
 10:40
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travis-ci [travis-ci] parrot/parrot#285 (master - 1eff807 : NotFound): The build was fixed. 10:58
[travis-ci] Change view : github.com/parrot/parrot/compare/6......1eff807
[travis-ci] Build details : travis-ci.org/parrot/parrot/builds/1243696
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dalek kudo/nom: d337e35 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
carry around the name of the to-be-imported module, and use it in an error message
 11:57
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whiteknight good morning, #parrot 12:11
moritz \\o whiteknight 12:12
whiteknight hello moritz
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dalek rrot: 5810fe5 | petdance++ | / (3 files):
Added the PARROT_NO_ADDRESS_SAFETY_ANALYSIS macro, plus support for it in the Headerizer.
 13:10
whiteknight petdance++ indeed 13:13
Coke petdance++ 13:14
whiteknight and rurban++ for coming up with the idea 13:16
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alester ping rurban 14:31
rurban here 14:36
I see, you added a macro for asan 14:37
Parrot_api_string_export_wchar writes one byte too much 14:49
It should be wstrout = (wchar_t *) malloc(sizeof (wchar_t) * (len + 1));
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aloha (parrot/parrot) Issues opened : 763 (api_string_export_wchar allocated one too less) by rurban : github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/763 14:59
dalek rrot: df12f34 | rurban++ | src/embed/strings.c:
api_string_export_wchar allocated one too less

clang -faddress-sanitizer detected this heap-buffer-overflow in t/src/embed/strings.t, allocated 173 bytes only, writing to cstr[173].		 15:05
rrot: 8bd397a | rurban++ | include/parrot/compiler.h:
avoid PARROT_NO_ADDRESS_SAFETY_ANALYSIS redefinition warnings
rrot: ca27ffa | petdance++ | / (2 files):
Merge pull request #763 from rurban/master

api_string_export_wchar + PARROT_NO_ADDRESS_SAFETY_ANALYSIS redef
alester rurban++
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rurban one more is coming from make test. t/pmc/structview.t test 5 15:07
Parrot_StructView_set_integer_keyed_orig 15:08
moritz rurban: are you hunting address violations?
aloha (parrot/parrot) Issues closed : 763 (api_string_export_wchar allocated one too less) by rurban : github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/763 15:09
rurban yes, just asan runs 15:12
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whiteknight rurban++ 15:15
dalek rrot: d3dcc4b | petdance++ | src/embed/strings.c:
localized and consted some local variables. Parenthesized another malloc call like in df12f34e9465531a89853ce541096fefc7025e0f
alester What is "asan"? 15:16
Oh, oh, got it.
I can't get a llvm/clang build working on my box.
rurban alester: what's not in the build instructions there: remove a prev. system clang first. 15:18
alester I don't think I have one.
You're on Mac OS X, right? I've been doing it on Linux 15:19
rurban an old clang can never boootstrap a new one
I'm doing both
alester Huh.
rurban now linux
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alester oh well, i have plenty of other projects I'm working on, and it's even less important now that you're on the case. 15:19
rurban mac osx is trickier you need no-pie
alester "no-pie"?
rurban like PIC
alester I don't understand. 15:20
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rurban no, better like address randomization. developer.apple.com/library/mac/#do.../ld.1.html 15:27
similar to windows ASLR 15:28
alester rurban: I'm surprised your talk got rejected for YAPC::NA. Are you coming anyway? 15:35
rurban sure, I'm coming. My company pays for it :) 15:37
alester I'm going to drop JT a line saying "If anyhting opens up, please run rurban's talk" 15:38
whiteknight what is his talk about 15:39
alester github.com/parrot/parrot/pull/763#...nt-5513148 15:40
Coke rurban++ # my boss rejected my request. Of course, we don't use perl at work, so I can't complain. ;)
rurban code.google.com/p/address-sanitizer.../FoundBugs see perl
alester I'm just taking days off. Madison is only 2 hours from my house.
rurban and how it works overall, and how to analzye the found bugs. clang is not easy to debug with gdb. most vars are in registers 15:41
and that you can just use it and forget about it, since it's so fast.
alester rurban, what TZ are you? I'm guessing UTC+0100?
I'd love to work on this more w/you but I don't have the time right now. 15:42
rurban I'm in Texas/Houston
alester oh, huh, why'd I think you were in .fr?
rurban I moved over, working for cPanel at the perl5 compiler 15:43
alester Aha. You're a cpaneler. Now it makes sense.
rurban we use the compiler all day long,
alester cpanel: The company with the biggest logo on the YAPC::NA T-shirt. :-) 15:44
I was just at a planning meeting on Tuesday.
rurban like facebook and google you need to have some technological advantage :)
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alester rurban: Are you in the cpanel recruitment video? 15:46
rurban I also use asan all day long here
Nope, I don't think so.
alester rurban: Aha, so you WERE in .fr. I'm not crazy!
rurban No, I'm from Austria, same town as Arnold Schwarzenegger
But I'm a better surfer than him 15:47
alester Austria, France, to us Americans it's all the same.
rurban We also have french folks here at cPanel
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alester I get the impression that you guys are sending pretty much the whole office up to Madison. 15:48
rurban We are about 200 and we are /only/ coming with 40 :) 15:49
I guess Madison must be pretty
www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/more-gr...9.html#top 15:50
alester Madison is indeed very nice.
rurban maybe that's why everybody wants to come. I have no idea. It's pretty far away from everywhere 15:51
alester I mean, if you don't mind snow.
and the Green Bay Packers 15:52
rurban Last years Ashville was worst city for singles www.kiplinger.com/slideshow/worst-c...les/4.html
But I liked it nevertheless. It's not that you are looking for one night stands at perl conferences 15:53
unaligned FixedIntegerArray is also broken a bit 15:55
alester rurban: But they seem to happen anyway! :-)
rurban: Check yr mailbox, you're on the cancellation list for YAPC
rurban No mail yet. 16:02
alester rurban@x-ray.at ? 16:03
rurban yes
alester spam filter?
It's mostly quoted text
rurban git it, thanks :)
got it
I think my talk scared them being too technical 16:04
tempc in structview.pmc:613 is off by one 16:14
Maybe that's why the hi-bit is sometimes wrong (int overflow errors)
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cotto ~~ 16:43
dalek kudo/nom: 637197e | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
run new test file
kudo/nom: ef715f0 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
[t/spectest.data] bring back in asciibetical order

also delete reference to outdated S07 test		 16:46
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rurban How about #if 0 in parrot code? for the sake of understanding 16:48
whiteknight what do you mean?
rurban unaligned access in StructView_set_integer_keyed is off-by-one, but you would not understand it without printing out the access patterns 16:49
At least I do. But I can also write a comment. 16:50
I send you a pull request and you can decide. At least I fixed the bug.
dalek rrot: 1e5f20e | rurban++ | src/pmc/structview.pmc:
avoid invalid unaligned StructView_set_integer_keyed access

clang -faddress-sanitizer found this invalid read access in two scenarios: 1: cptr[8/8] with uint1 2: off-by-one access on multi-byte values		 17:03
rrot: a850da6 | petdance++ | src/pmc/structview.pmc:
Merge pull request #764 from rurban/master

last found asan bug (I hope)
rurban Now let's see if parrot with perl6 survives this treatment :) 17:06
moritz is -faddress-sanitizer now enabled by default on clang builds? 17:14
or is that something you add to the compiler options?
rurban debian unstable I think so 17:15
It's in llvm 3.1 mainline since about a month or so.
I usually compile from source
C is pretty stable, there are some bugs in the Windows port and C++ 17:16
bugs = false positives
One more in parrot: heap-use-after-free in t/run/options.t 17:17
34 --leak-test fails 17:22
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dukeleto ~~ 17:28
rurban Oh my, Parrot_x_exit needs PARROT_NO_ADDRESS_SAFETY_ANALYSIS added 17:31
nope, did not help 17:33
But it only fails with --leak-test, so it's probably not important 17:34
whiteknight That function is having problems? 17:35
It should just be some bookkeeping and a longjmp
rurban With --leak-test at the final interp->exit_handler_list = NULL; interp is already freed 17:36
whiteknight oh wow
do you have a backtrace for that?
rurban But only with --leak-test. Maybe we should check for this flag and do not write then
whiteknight we probably need to rewrite the logic for that flag 17:37
nopaste "rurban" at 208.74.121.102 pasted "With --leak-test at the final interp->exit_handler_list = NULL; interp is already freed" (13 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/137744
"rurban" at 208.74.121.102 pasted "asan warning" (37 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/137745 17:39
whiteknight Hmm... that definitely doesn't look right
I think what we want there is to call the at_exit handlers and just return 0 17:40
rurban calling Parrot_x_jump_out is also not kosher
whiteknight no, we don't want to do either there
aloha (parrot/parrot) Issues opened : 765 (With --leak-test at the final interp->exit_handler_list = NULL; interp is already freed ) by rurban : github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/765 17:45
whiteknight rurban: If you're not going to fix that ticket, assign it to me. I can do it tonight 17:56
if you want it, that's fine too :) 17:57
rurban I would if I can. Could not find how to assign
dalek kudo/nom: bc520af | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
run caller.t test
 17:58
rurban I'd rather not check the fragile gc logic. Yesterday was too frightening already. 17:59
whiteknight I'll assign the ticket
I'm going to need to learn how to use this analyzer so I can properly test it 18:00
rurban: If you can't give a talk at YAPC, could you write up a short How-To about it for parrot-dev?
rurban cat .gdbinit 18:01
break __asan_report_error
That's the best hint
whiteknight ok
rurban Sure. I'll add to my blog post series about asan blogs.perl.org/users/rurban/2012/03...und-2.html
whiteknight nostarch.com/newsletters/dayagainstdrm.htm 18:03
rurban Whow, super offer! thanks 18:04
whiteknight excellent blog post 18:05
(I saw that link in my RSS feed and figured I would pass it along to parrot devs)
rurban I didn't yet wrote about the CPAN findings (DBI and more), and parrot. 18:06
whiteknight okay, I look forward to it 18:07
rurban If this guy would have used asan he would have been much faster coming up with his exploits: nostarch.com/download/bughunter_ch2.pdf 18:13
dalek kudo/nom: 8fff4e7 | moritz++ | t/spectest.data:
run counted.t test file
 18:20
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rurban make install: -rw------- 1 root 33576 May 4 13:27 /usr/local/lib/parrot/4.3.0-devel/parrot_config.o 18:51
/usr/bin/ld: error: cannot open /usr/local/lib/parrot/4.3.0-devel/parrot_config.o: Permission denied
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dalek kudo/nom: cf40f24 | moritz++ | src/core/Str.pm:
[Str.match] add :th as alias for :nth
 19:04
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dalek rrot: 6c302cf | jkeenan++ | src/pmc/structview.pmc:
[codingstd] Eliminate hard tabs and make indentation nice.
 19:59
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travis-ci [travis-ci] parrot/parrot#290 (master - 6c302cf : jkeenan): The build was broken. 20:22
[travis-ci] Change view : github.com/parrot/parrot/compare/a......6c302cf
[travis-ci] Build details : travis-ci.org/parrot/parrot/builds/1248054
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dalek p/toqast: 6f91998 | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Block.nqp:
Generate compilation-unit unique IDs for QAST::Blocks (or allow explicit setting of one).
 20:37
p/toqast: feb325c | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
Code-gen for outer chain.
p/toqast: 5f34bad | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
Generate with :anon flag to avoid a Parrot namespace installation.
p/toqast: 7de618b | jnthn++ | src/QAST/ (2 files):
First crack at code-gen for :op('call').
 21:00
benabik ~~ 21:25
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cotto ~, 21:28
rurban thanks jkeenan. I just installed the .el files for parrot for proper formatting 21:50
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whiteknight good evening, #parrot 23:16
dalek Heuristic branch merge: pushed 580 commits to parrot/mem_limit by Whiteknight 23:30
whiteknight benabik: ping 23:31
benabik whiteknight: pong
whiteknight benabik: the nqp_pct branch, what's the status of it?
benabik whiteknight: Does PIR very slowly, does very little bytecode. 23:32
whiteknight benabik: okay. Is it something we're going to pursue still, or is it completely supplanted by pact?
benabik whiteknight: It should probably be replaced with QAST and PACt. 23:33
whiteknight ok 23:34
Otherwise I would try to bring it up to date with master or something
benabik The speed was so painful.
whiteknight ok
dalek rrot/manual_args: de203dd | Whiteknight++ | / (8 files):
Add in a :manual_args flag to PIR, for testing
 23:40
rrot/manual_args: d7856f8 | Whiteknight++ | / (217 files):
Merge from master. Fix a conflict in IMCC with handling of automagic 'self'. Add some comments too, to explain the code after the merge
whiteknight I'm trying to dig through some of my old branches and either clean them or update them 23:46
I have far too many old branch refs on my machine, idle
benabik Yeah. 23:49
Oh. Forgot pct_winxed. IMHO, that's a better direction for PCT to head. 23:50
whiteknight ok 23:56

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