Parrot 0.6.2 "Reverse Sublimation" Released | parrotcode.org/ | 18/672 new/open tix | logged in irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today
Set by moderator on 1 June 2008.
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bacek_ morning everyone 00:41
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cotto_work pmichaud++ for the P6object post 01:27
scrottie pmichaud-- # for being an idle-butt 01:40
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dalek r28041 | coke++ | trunk: 03:24
: [codingstd]
: make t\\codingstd\\trailing_space pass.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28041
cotto_home karma pmichaud 03:29
purl pmichaud has karma of 1324
cotto_home seen scrottie
purl scrottie was last seen on #parrot 1 hour and 50 minutes ago, saying: pmichaud-- # for being an idle-butt
cotto_home karma pmichaud
purl pmichaud has karma of 1324
ank karma police 03:46
purl Arrest this man!
cotto_home (karma police)++ 03:48
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Infinoid karma chameleon 04:08
purl It comes and goes.
Auzon instant karma? 04:09
purl Auzon++
Auzon woah
Infinoid JIT karma 04:11
cotto_home test #9 in t/examples/tutorial.t is failing 04:17
dalek r28042 | coke++ | trunk: 04:27
: [docs] point more accurately at LWN
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28042
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nopaste "bacek" at 211.29.157.151 pasted "Fix of List.reduce for pmichaud to commit" (35 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/13148 05:31
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nopaste "bacek" at 211.29.157.151 pasted "Refactored version List.reduce for pmichaud to review." (103 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/13149 06:28
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dalek r28043 | chromatic++ | pdd25cx: 07:30
: [IMCC] Made IMCC more rentrant. When compiling code with IMCC from within a
: PIR program, it was possible to switch the constant table for the currently
: executing parent context to an empty constant table created for the context of
: the code being compiled. This does bad things from within continuations.
: The fix is to save the parent context *before* potentially overwriting its data.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28043
r28044 | chromatic++ | pdd25cx:
: [src] Tided some code, while I was debugging them. No behavioral changes.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28044
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dalek r28045 | kjs++ | trunk: 09:45
: [tutorial] add episodes 5 to 9 to languages/squaak/doc directory
: Manifest is updated.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28045
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dalek r28046 | kjs++ | trunk: 09:51
: [tutorial] fix a missing =head2.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28046
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bacek <bacek> rakudo: my $a = 1 + undef; say $a; say $a.WHAT; 10:44
<exp_evalbot> rakudo r28046 OUTPUT[1?Failure?]
pmichaud, I found why List.map failing with Failure.
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nopaste "bacek" at 202.7.166.169 pasted "Fix src/pmc/integer.pmc +/- ops with undef (pmichaud/particle/chromatic to review)." (20 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/13150 11:48
bacek anyone alive here? 11:49
moritz drops dead
bacek empty AK-47 to moritz. Just to be sure... 11:50
moritz ouch, that hurt! I can't even begin to imagine how much a full AK-47 would hurt ;) 11:51
bacek moritz, empty is about few kilogramms. Full is little bit more :) 11:53
moritz in Soviet Russia Kalachnikov empties *you* 11:54
bacek moritz, no. Its usually fills you with some small metal things :) 11:56
moritz bacek: and empties your guts in the progress 11:57
bacek moritz, probably :) 12:03
jonathan Seems I picked an interesting time, to appear on #parrot... 12:04
moritz ;-) 12:07
bacek hi jonathan :)
cognominal make: *** No rule to make target `src/glut_callbacks.o', needed by `runtime/parrot/dynext/libglutcb.bundle'. Stop 12:08
do I need a new version of the glut library?
bacek cognominal, make realclean; Configure.pl; make 12:09
cognominal I ded
I did!
bacek can anyone test S29-list/map.t via 'make localtest'?
cognominal, works for me... 12:10
davidfetter anybody have an example of using parrot to replace lexx/yacc ?
moritz bacek: All tests successful, 27 subtests skipped. 12:11
bacek moritz, hmm...
davidfetter well, the relevant parts of parrot, anyhow
moritz bacek: fudged, of course
bacek davidfetter, languages/squaak/src/parser/
davidfetter looks at this 12:12
bacek moritz, yeek... I didn't expect it...
moritz, is it clean checkout of parrot?
moritz bacek: actually map.t is not in spectest_regression.data because it had unclear tests (that I cleaned in the mean time) 12:13
bacek: no, slight modifications
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moritz the runcore=gcdebug path, mostly 12:14
bacek moritz, can you 'say (1+undef)+undef' result? 12:16
cognominal I suspect this patch : rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Display...l?id=55074
moritz bacek: same as evalbot
davidfetter bacek, um, that's not quite what i had in mind. i'm thinking of a walk-through where somebody replaces lexx/yacc with parrot in an existing code base 12:17
dalek r28047 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09:
: [gsoc_pdd09] updating to trunk r28046
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28047
cognominal does not seem so dangerous a patch :(
bacek bacek@icebolt:~/src/parrot/languages/perl6$ ../../parrot perl6.pbc 12:18
> say (1+undef)+undef
1
I don't understand why S29-list/map.t passes without my patch...
moritz bacek: which specific test are you worrying about?
bacek davidfetter, ouch... I don't think that someone did it
moritz, n-ary functions 12:19
moritz bacek: they are fudged 12:20
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bacek moritz, i'mm stupid... I forgot to commit unfuged version... 12:21
> say ~(1,2).map({ $^a+$^b+$^c+$^d+$^e }) 12:23
3
ok. Look's like this is right patch for integer.pmc
summon jonathan
jonathan appears 12:26
bacek nopaste.snit.ch/13150 this is another small patch for src/pmc/integer.pmc 12:27
It fix (1+undef)+undef problem in parrot
jonathan Hmm 12:28
Basically it just makes the return type that of the LHS of the operator rather than the RHS.
bacek LHS is always Int. 12:29
And it consistent with all other places in this file :)
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bacek ouch... 12:30
mmd--
I hate it...
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bacek jonathan, ok... mmd is weird 12:33
this patch will fix part of the problem anyway. 12:34
another part is properly implement 'undef.pmc' with redirecting 'undef of PMC' to 'PMC op undef' 12:35
bacek cast resurrect on jonathan 12:48
Whiteknight watch out! zombie jonathan will eat your brains! 12:55
pmichaud pong 12:56
bacek pmichaud, I found why List.map doesn't work with Failure. 12:57
nopaste.snit.ch/13150
Actually other VTABLE_methods use patch's approach 12:58
pmichaud interesting. looking. 12:59
bacek and question is: is it good idea to implement undef + 1 in src/pmc/undef as redirecting it to 1 + undef
pmichaud bacek: can't do that for subtraction, though.
(so, no)
bacek pmichaud, yes of cause. But for commutative methods it will work :) 13:00
pmichaud well, we need to find a fix for all of them :-)
and I'd rather not have some do it one way and others do it another
I think I'm going to fix it all using a higher mmd anyway
bacek pmichaud, pugs says that 'undef - 1' is -1. 13:01
moritz that's right, plus ideally a warning
bacek Looks like pugs morph undef to RHS type
may be this is 'way to go'
bacek still trying to build bugs... 13:02
pmichaud no, because undef - "123" shouldn't morph to a string.
I have the fix in mind -- just haven't had a chance to write it.
just a sec, I'll fix it now.
bacek pmichaud, ok
pmichaud (need to svn up, rebuild, etc first) 13:03
but I think the real solution is to have infix:+ (_,_) cast its values into num registers, then do the addition. 13:04
and for an optimization we can have infix:+ (Int,Int) do an integer addition
and then we don't have to deal with Parrot's MMD at all.
bacek pmichaud, is it good??? 13:05
pmichaud (er, Parrot's opcode MMD)
bacek pmichaud, anyway, it's next step. My patch just fix some inconsistency. 13:06
moritz bacek: it's the only generic solution
bacek: because infix:+ should work for all things that can be used in numeric context
bacek: even user defined classes
bacek moritz, why it should be on 'language level' not 'VM level'?
pmichaud one thing I haven't figured out in Parrot's opcode MMD is how one adds new MMD combinations to an opcode 13:07
for example, if I want to have a special version of 'add' for types Foo and Bar, how do I do that?
moritz bacek: because if you have N types that can be used in numeric context, you'll have to add O(N²) inifix:+ multis
pmichaud although I guess it's done using a vtable override of the 'add' opcode 13:08
sorry, vtable override of the add vtable method
anyway 13:09
bacek pmichaud, infix:+(Foo,Bar) :) 13:11
I can't find commutative handling in MMD too...
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pmichaud bacek: infix+(Foo,Bar) would be a multi sub, not another MMD entry in Parrot's opcode table 13:12
I mean the case where I have 13:13
$P0 = new 'Foo'
$P1 = new 'Bar'
n_add $P2, $P0, $P1
bacek pmichaud, hmm... 13:14
pmichaud as I said, I think it would need to be a vtable method on Foo
anyway, I'll go ahead and fix it for rakudo 13:15
making spectest_regression 13:24
Hash needs get_number, adding 13:27
Whiteknight true or false: "Parrot has six basic stacks, each for a different purpose: The control stack, the pad stack, and the four register backing stacks"? 13:33
pmichaud false
we no longer have register backing stacks, I don't think
Whiteknight I already removed "user stack" from the list
okay
pmichaud and i'm not sure we have a pad stack, either.
Whiteknight I'm working on /docs/book, and a lot of stuff in here is about the stacks and needs to get deleted. 13:34
And I know the number of stacks has been reduced, but I dont know the full extent of the reduction 13:35
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Whiteknight pmichaud, would you know who I could ask about the existence of the pad stack? 13:38
or, where I could find the information myself? 13:39
pmichaud chromatic or allison are the best bets
you might also try the mailing list, or perhaps at #parrotsketch later today
Whiteknight okay, thanks!
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dalek r28048 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 13:41
: [core]:
: * Add get_number vtable method to Hash PMC.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28048
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Whiteknight well, the opcodes for new_pad, push_pad and pop_pad are all missing from ops.num. That's not a good sign in favor of existence 13:44
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Whiteknight even if it does exist, if you can't manipulate it directly, there's no sense talking about it in the book 13:44
dalek r28049 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 13:45
: [perl6]:
: * Fix a number of operators to do proper casting.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28049
pmichaud bacek: okay r28049 should do what you want.
bacek pmichaud, rebuilding...
pmichaud, (while building parrot) nopaste.snit.ch/13149 13:47
pmichaud the multis don't look right 13:48
bacek yes.
I think we should drop all :multi(_,List) 13:49
because in sub(foo, 1, (1..5)) List is not generated anymore AFAIK
pmichaud shouldn't it be :multi(Sub) ? 13:51
bacek pmichaud, probably.
no. definitely :) 13:52
pmichaud, (last patch) it woks!
pmichaud++
pmichaud how does pugs report an error in reduce if given a sub with arity < 2 ? 13:53
moritz it calls Code.arity? 13:54
bacek pmichaud, yes. 13:56
sting is copy-pasted from evalbot
nopaste "bacek" at 202.7.166.166 pasted "replacing :multi subs with :multi(Sub)" (49 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/13151 14:00
bacek running spectest_regression for nopaste.snit.ch/13151
Zaba_ did perl5's $0 go in perl6? what is in its place? 14:04
pmichaud (reduce) what if the argument is a multisub? 14:05
moritz Zaba_: probalby $*PROGRAM_NAME or some such
dalek r28050 | Whiteknight++ | trunk:
: [book] Updated chapter 5 by removing references to "user stack" and "pad stack", and other updates/additions.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28050
bacek pmichaud, Result: PASS with nopaste.snit.ch/13151. You are totally right 14:06
Zaba_ aha
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pmichaud also, fwiw, I'd like to have parameter names in the implementation match the parameter names in the spec. :-) 14:07
bacek pmichaud, ok :)
btw, may be we should made 2 subs: :multi(Sub) and :multi(Sub, List) for 'premature optimisation' 14:08
pmichaud nah, don't do the premature optimization 14:09
there's little point.
:multi(Sub) should be sufficient.
bacek ok :) 14:10
S29?
purl S29 is svn.pugscode.org/pugs/docs/Perl6/Sp...ctions.pod
jonathan OK, I'm back 14:12
Had Slovak lesson.
pmichaud wb, jonathan
nopaste "bacek" at 202.7.166.166 pasted "replacing :multi subs with :multi(Sub) once again (for pmichaud)" (94 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/13152 14:15
pmichaud it's not necessary to create a separate list 14:17
simply use values.'map'(expression)
jonathan pmichaud: Was it my parameter handling patch that caused issues?
pmichaud jonathan: both patches caused issues
I was going to fix them yesterday but got sidetracked onto other items
well, I should rephrase that 14:18
getting Perl6Scalar to accept infix:= is going to be tricky, because find_method on Perl6Scalar is always using find_method of the value
jonathan I know the gc one caused issues...
pmichaud and yes, the gc one caused issues too :-)
jonathan Ah, yes. The MMD stuff gets...nasty...there. :-( 14:19
Oh, wait, it's not about MMD
Hmm, but yes, you're right.
pmichaud the params patch hard-coded Perl6Scalar instead of using $?PERL6SCALAR 14:21
so switching $?PERL6SCALAR at the top didn't quite work 14:22
but I really want to refactor parameter handling anyway
jonathan ok
pmichaud you were just a day or so ahead of me
jonathan ok
pmichaud I'm also planning to get rid of a lot of the inline PIR surrounding placeholder params, since that's not needed any more 14:23
and try to remove some of our flag variables.
bacek sleep time 14:31
g'night everyone 14:32
moritz maybe we should introduce a "committest" that runs rakudo's test, spectest_regression and parrot's codetest 14:51
particle i think that should be called 'test' so it's the default 14:53
-Odevelopment
jonathan wouldn't dislike what particle suggests.
particle then we have targets like spectest, fulltest, etc
moritz I think it's useless to run the code tests when you do a 'make languages_smoke' 14:54
particle languages_smoke should run 'smoketest' then
every language should define smoketest, and most will point to test 14:55
smoketest : test
moritz good point
purl Thanks, moritz, I'm glad you agree with me.
moritz we just need to make sure that we don't fail when sombody doesn't have svn installed
particle or that we fail gracefully
NotFound You can add make installsvn X-) 14:56
moritz NotFound: naughty boy
moritz is surprised that purl doesn't have a clever comment on that one ;) 14:57
davidfetter open the pod bay doors, purl 14:59
purl I'm sorry, davidfetter, I'm afraid I can't do that. I still have the utmost confidence in the mission.
NotFound is considering the possibility of creating a text adventure game by feeding purl with selected texts. 15:02
moritz NotFound: purl *is* the text adventure 15:03
NotFound I loose. 15:04
davidfetter itym lose
pmichaud purl, the mission? 15:05
purl well, the mission is probably pretty inexpensive.
pmichaud no, purl, the mission is to complete Perl 6. :-)
purl okay, pmichaud.
Whiteknight the mission? 15:09
purl the mission is probably to complete Perl 6. :-)
Whiteknight excellent use of the qualifier "probably"
pmichaud probably, purl? Are you sure you're unsure? Are you certain it's not certain?
pmichaud picks on the bot. 15:10
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japhb cognominal: I have not had time to read the backlog (and I'm about to step out), but when I get back I can take a look at your OpenGL build problems. In the mean time, can you email me a tarball of your OpenGL/GLUT header files? (I'm surprised you're having problems on Mac OS, I thought I nailed these to the ground.) 15:22
pmichaud moritz: is #55164 still an issue for you-- i.e., does t/spec/S29-array/push.rakudo still segfault? 15:24
moritz pmichaud: checking... 15:25
purl hmmm... checking is not the hard part here. ;-)
cognominal japhb : your email address? 15:26
moritz pmichaud: it doesn't segfault, I'll now check the reduced example with --runcore=gcdebug 15:27
cotto_home japhb? 15:29
purl somebody said japhb was Geoffrey Broadwell, mailto:geoff@broadwell.org
moritz pmichaud: no segfault, but still errors with --runcore=gcdebug 15:31
pmichaud interesting.
okay, thanks, that's what I needed to know. I'll try it on my box.
NotFound #55710 has been solved? 15:32
I mean, #55170
pmichaud I don't know if it's been solved or not 15:33
NotFound I'v tested now with a c++ build, and it works.
Rebuliding with c. 15:34
Interesting, it segfaults in the c build but works in the c++ build. 15:42
Both builds after a realclean, in r28050 15:43
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cotto_home NotFound, where does the c build for 28050 explode for you? 15:52
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cotto_home nm 15:54
NotFound cotto_home: make perl6, when executing the hello. 15:58
Buliding with --optimize, as #55170 explains. 16:00
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avar 1/w 22 17:31
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moritz purl: ps? 17:33
purl ps is postscript or process status
moritz purl: #ps?
purl somebody said #ps was where I can say "okay, these issues are really troubling/annoying/blocking" or #parrotsketch, where committers can talk and bystanders can listen
Tene Oh, #ps time and coke isn't around. 17:35
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particle isn't parrotsketch in an hour? 17:38
1830utc
currently 1738
moritz aye 17:39
Tene Gah, timezones.
moritz I hoped that purl would tell me the time
purl, #ps is also at 1830 UTC
purl okay, moritz.
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chromatic Is there a SoC meeting? 17:40
particle no, parrot soc students report during parrotsketch
Tene I thought I was on central time again.
chromatic So there's no special SoC meeting?
moritz chromatic: and Auzon reports on #perl6-soc in irc.freenode.net 17:41
particle there's a meeting for the perl 6 soc project, tomorrow at 1930utc
Auzon but that's on Wednesday.
Tene " Wednesday 19:30 UTC weekly meetings" -- from #perl6-soc on freenode
particle auzon misreported in his blog a week or so aga
*ago
Auzon I did?
particle you misreported something...
moritz didn't notice
particle perhaps it's that you said it's before the weekly parrot meeting 17:42
moritz let's throw a few stones, just to be sure ;)
particle that's incorrect, it's 30m before the weekly perl 6 design meeting conference call
Auzon OK, I'll change that.
chromatic Okay, that sounds familiar.
particle so i'd like to keep that meeting to 30m ;)
moritz particle: I think it will usually be shorter, it was just the first time that we had so much to say
particle moritz: agreed 17:43
moritz: do you log #parrotsketch?
moritz particle: no. Should I?
particle would you mind? it'd be nice in case tweety goes down
and your log interface is much nicer 17:44
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moderator Parrot 0.6.2 "Reverse Sublimation" Released | parrotcode.org/ | 18/672 new/open tix | logged in irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today
moritz particle: thanks ;-) it logs now 17:44
particle moritz++ 17:45
Auzon OK, I fixed my blag. Sorry about the confusion.
pmichaud purl: ps? 17:51
purl it has been said that ps is postscript or process status
pmichaud purl: parrotsketch?
purl rumour has it parrotsketch is a status meeting for parrot core committers held every Tuesday at 18:30 UTC in #parrotsketch
pmichaud ps is also see "parrotsketch"
purl okay, pmichaud.
pmichaud no, #ps is a status meeting for parrot core committers held every Tuesday at 18:30 UTC in #parrotsketch 17:52
purl okay, pmichaud.
pmichaud begins preparing his #ps report 17:54
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NotFound #55170 is the same problem as #55000, at least in my system. 17:56
chromatic Does the patch for #55000 fix it for you? 17:57
NotFound chromatic: I tested a variant of that patch, that checks both calls to really_destroy, and fix both tickets. 17:58
chromatic Sounds good to me.
NotFound I've posted the patch in #55170.
chromatic Let's see how dirty my tree is.
Yep, it's a fix. 18:10
Wow, with an optimized build, that Rakudo benchmark builds four times faster than it did when I started optimizing it. 18:11
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chromatic And the file is three times larger. 18:11
NotFound A lot of inlining, maybe.
chromatic Not too much... dropping PARROT_ASSERT helps a little and optimizing away useless NULL checks. 18:12
scrottie pmichaud, wake up.
chromatic As I understand it, GCC is terrible about cross .o inlining and optimization.
I'd like to see how clang handles this at some point.
Whiteknight chromatic, do we still have a pad stack?
NotFound Ah, sorry, I think you talked about the library file size.
Whiteknight i was under the impression that the pad stack is caput 18:13
chromatic I meant the size of the input file, not the .o file... so the build process takes three times as much work to process the file. 18:15
dalek r28051 | chromatic++ | trunk:
: [src] When destroying an interpreter, only destroy its exceptions if there are
: any present. Fixes RT #55000 and RT #55170 (NotFound, Vasily Chekalkin, and
: Andrew Whitworth).
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28051
pmichaud scrottie: pong
chromatic Whiteknight, if you mean the Stack_Chunk_t thing that pmichaud and I talked about a few times, it's gone in the pdd25cx branch now.
pmichaud whiteknight means whatever the book mean by "pad stack" 18:16
I assumed the pad stack was the lexical pad stack
Whiteknight yeah, lexical pad stack. The "push_pad" and "pop_pad
" instructions are all gone
scrottie pmichaud: yo. not sure if you replied to my email or if you got it. a lot of people block me for lack of forward and reverse DNS matching.
18:17 jhorwitz joined
pmichaud either pobox or gmail may have blocked it. 18:17
scrottie pmichaud: you doing YAPC this year?
pmichaud yes.
scrottie ahh, excellent. arriving the night before?
pmichaud arriving saturday before
18:17 allison joined
pmichaud (parrot hackathon) 18:17
scrottie i get in sunday eve. would you mind just throwing Larry in your suitcase and then I'll try to get in touch? what are your Sunday eve plans? 18:19
pmichaud I'm thinking of attending the pre-conference dinner
other than that, I have no plans at present.
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scrottie checks his flight info again 18:19
pmichaud I was a little worried about transporting Larry because I'm only doing carryon (no real "suitcase"). But I think I've found a spot for it. 18:20
and I have it pretty well protected at the moment :-)
scrottie oh. right. the fascists decided to come up with more clever ways to make security screening take forever so that people miss their flights so they can overbook een more
haven't had my coffee yet... just saw you were only 15 min idle and tried to sieze the chance... so I'm a bit dopey... 18:21
pmichaud no prob :-)
can I get my karma back? ;-)
chromatic That would assume competence on the part of both parties in the conspiracy, which when applied to both airlines and the TSA stretches credulity.
pmichaud yes, I'm not sure what American Airlines was thinking when they started their "pay to check any bags" bit. Fortunately I'm flying Southwest :-) 18:22
NotFound About library size: 16M in normal build, 4.3M with --optimize 18:27
jonathan Pay to check any bags is done by various European budget airlines, but I'd never really have considered AA a budget airline...
pmichaud AA just announced the new policy a week or so ago 18:28
$15 for first bag, $25 for additional bag, each way
chromatic Wow. That's a lot of debugging symbols. 18:29
moritz airlines mostly suck
pmichaud (for tickets booked after June 15)
scrottie chromatic: I'm assuming fascism and working backwards from that assumption.
pmichaud scrottie: anyway, I'll have Larry with me at the conference.
chromatic That's fine. Just remember competent fascism (such as Mussolini or Franco) implies timely public transportation systems. 18:30
particle oh, crap, gotta type up my report
chromatic #ps time
scrottie pmichaud: alrighty, I get in 2:23. sorry to be itchy about getting him back... i have plans for him that involve having time before the con. but I did intend for him to travel and I'm glad you had him.
pmichaud scrottie: no problem -- sorry we didn't get together before now to take care of it. had been meaning to do so but it kept slipping down my list of 'to-do' 18:31
scrottie no, this is awesome. I'd have coordinated earlier but I didn't have this particular plan in effect before ;)
NotFound chromatic: looks like you never travelled in the Spain of Franco.
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chromatic He predated me by a bit. 18:32
scrottie pmichaud++ # not being an ide-butt
idle
particle scrottie-- # misplleling karma comments 18:35
18:36 Zaba joined
particle scrottie++ # keeping karma in balance 18:36
scrottie =P
pmichaud: by the way, Richard Dice had Larry the previous year, and when he (Larry) came back, he was all grubby. Apparently people like to touch Larry. 18:38
pmichaud hasn't been touched a lot here. Mostly been a decoration on my desk :-) 18:40
TimToady
.oO(whew!)
 18:41
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chromatic Hmm, looks like get_free_buffer is a candidate for GC-related optimization. 18:51
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pmichaud maybe we should put a parrot hackathon announcement on parrotblog ? 18:53
particle good idea!
purl particle: Good Idea: Playing cops'n'robbers in the park. Bad Idea: Playing cops'n'robbers in the bank.
particle wish i remembered my rakudo.org password
pmichaud there's not a way to recover passwords?
chromatic It's just a Blogger password, right?
particle not obvious, since i didn't set up the account, i don't have the magic phrase
gotta poke andy 18:54
chromatic Oh no, I'm thinking of parrotblog.org
pmichaud rakudo.org is movable type 18:55
particle too many domains
i'm confuddled and befused
...and i work here!
pmichaud it's interesting that on this project we get to use just about every blogging application there is.
(at least the major ones.) 18:56
Whiteknight chromatic, get_free_buffer seems pretty bare-bones already. how could it be optimized?
pmichaud having so many different blogging systems seems.... suboptimal.
moritz pmichaud: just write THE ONE blogging system ;)
pmichaud moritz: I did -- in fact, I'm now using it to post to the others. :-P 18:57
(I write my articles in my wiki, then I have a filter that translates them into suitable formats for each blog application.)
moritz pmichaud: can it stand on its own? (I mean as "real" blog) 18:58
pmichaud well, it needs a few more features to be a "real" blog, although lots of people use it for that already
but yes, my wiki app definitely stands on its own.
japhb msg DietCoke I responded to your bug RT #55238. It's one of those "should not be possible" things.
purl Message for dietcoke stored.
japhb cognominal: I have not received email from you yet, nor have I had a chance to read backlog (damn $real_life). I will check back after lunch and try to help you then. 18:59
scrottie enjoyed his visit to #parrot very much (thank you!) but he's going to slink off back to that other chan now. 19:04
cheers!
19:04 scrottie left
chromatic Whiteknight, before I read the code I thought it might be pulling from a bufferlike pool. 19:04
Whiteknight isn't it? it is calling pool->get_free_object() 19:05
chromatic One of the sized bufferlike pools.
Not a string header pool.
Whiteknight oh, okay 19:06
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cognominal japhb, I updated the ticket 19:11
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smash hello everyone 19:40
moritz hi smash ;) 19:41
japhb cognominal, OK, I'm back
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japhb cognominal: what ticket did you update? 20:01
Man, I just cannot manage to be here at the same time as him ...
NotFound Someone can tell what Parrot_exec_rel_addr and Parrot_exec_rel_count are used for? I've deleted all his usages and test passed, make hello works and make perl6 works. 20:06
japhb cognominal: Oh, I see, 55228. 20:07
chromatic NotFound, make testj 20:10
NotFound Doing... 20:11
purl rumour has it doing is better than talking
NotFound PASS 20:12
TODO passed: 8 20:13
chromatic Hm, and you're on a platform with working JIT?
NotFound Ubuntu 8.04 i386 20:14
chromatic Okay, let's get someone on Mac OS X 10.4 on PPC to try the patch with make testj, and I'm happy. 20:15
NotFound Those variables are only in 386 jit files.
Maybe we must test in win 386 20:16
chromatic Oh yeah. I keep forgetting.
dalek r28052 | chromatic++ | trunk: 20:24
: [config] Resolved an undefined value warning when building Parrot without exec
: core (reported by Will Coleda in RT #55244).
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28052
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particle meeting & 20:32
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mj41 Hi, probaly today TapTinder can help a bit - tt.perl6.cz/ 20:40
japhb is having an extremely interrupt-driven day 20:42
Hmmm, can make depend on a success or failure exit code from a script, rather than on the existence and timestamp of a file? 20:43
chromatic Doubt it.
particle wrap the script in another that generates a file upon successful exit of the inner script 20:44
really gone &
japhb particle: yep, I was thinking that's what I'd have to do. 20:45
chromatic Although if you had a rule that just ran the script and relied on its exit code....
dalek r28053 | coke++ | trunk:
: [docs] Update list of upcoming release managers based on RSVPs.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=28053
japhb Hmmmm. Can the timestamp of a file be set arbitrarily in a cross-platform way?
20:45 Zaba joined
chromatic You probably don't want to get into that. 20:47
japhb wishes make had a programmatic API, for about the hundredth time 20:50
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smash pmichaud: i'm getting a bit confused browsing svn, in PCT, the T stands for Tools or Toolkit in nowadays ? 21:04
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NotFound Patch sended to #54602 with the cleaning of the exec_rel_addr things. 21:07
spinclad smash: Toolkit as i recall, but my #parrot logs gives for both 21:22
s/gives/give hits/
smash hehe 21:23
spinclad pct?
purl pct is probably a good solution, but heavyweight or the Parrot Compiler Toolkit
smash hmm, how updated are you purl ? 21:24
spinclad 2008-03-31: <@pmichaud> At the conference I'm wanting to do 2 or 3 talks regarding Rakudo (the Parrot implementation of Perl 6) and the new Parrot Compiler Toolkit. ... 21:25
smash ok, i guess that settles it
thks spinclad
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cotto_work no purl, pct is the Parrot Compiler Toolkit 21:51
purl okay, cotto_work.
cotto_work pct?
purl rumour has it pct is the Parrot Compiler Toolkit
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japhb Anyone around who can discuss the current state and future direction of the config/build processes in Parrot? 23:05
Limbic_Region well at one point, the plan was not to use perl 5 - but the build/config is extremely dependent on perl 5 ATM 23:13
chromatic We'll likely stick with Perl 5 for Parrot 1.0. 23:14
Limbic_Region purl nopaste
purl nopaste is at nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or rafb.net/paste or paste.husk.org/ or poundperl.pastebin.com/ or paste.scsys.co.uk/ or don't bother me while I'm eating or App::Nopaste or tools/dev/nopaste.pl
nopaste "Limbic_Region" at 68.49.236.220 pasted "Parrot fails to finish building on Win32/MinGW due to PGE" (997 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/13154 23:16
Limbic_Region purl msg pmichaud parrot fails to finish building on Win32/MinGW due to pge - see nopaste.snit.ch/13154
grrr
chromatic boticide
Limbic_Region yep
smash hahahah 23:17
Limbic_Region: you bad person you :-)
making poor bot crash !!
PerlJam Limbic_Region: If someone would volunteer to create a build/config system from miniparrot, that would be nice ;-) 23:23
chromatic Yeah, but once you have miniparrot, you have most of libparrot built.
Limbic_Region PerlJam - as chromatic said, the trouble is getting there. IMO, the real trouble is portability 23:24
chromatic Portability isn't that awful. 23:25
Limbic_Region no, it is a great thing really
chromatic Most of what configure needs to do is compile and run some C programs and fill in some templates.
PerlJam it would be interesting if we could elide the "compile some C programs" step in lieu of a table lookup of some sort. 23:26
Limbic_Region so here is my proposed solution - write a configure.c - step 1. compile configure.c step 2, run the resulting configure.exe step 3 - run make :-) 23:27
chromatic A table lookup?
Limbic_Region oh, yeah - in addition to the PGE build failure on Win32/MinGW - the rakudo spectest suite seems to hang in an infinite loop on Win32/Cygwin 23:28
t/spec/S29-conversions/ord_and_chr.................. # ran for 4 hours the other night
PerlJam chromatic: as part of the config step. But I guess we need to do that anyway to get parro. Never mind me; I'm a little slow this evening
Limbic_Region should I submit a ticket for that - or is mentioning it here sufficient? 23:29
PerlJam lack of sleep and sick kids spreading their disease is enough to make anyone slightly crazy :)
chromatic Someone should invent an antiseptic toddler. 23:30
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japhb sorry all, got pulled away myself. 23:36
I was thinking at a higher level than implementation ...
Infinoid if you think at a high enough level, you stop thinking altogether :) 23:37
japhb What do we want configure to do? Right now, it conflates several concepts: auto-detection for features, platform details detection, user overrides, generation of a number of files, etc. ... 23:38
We certainly need *something* to do each of these steps, but is configure the right place for all of them? (My biased answer: no) 23:39
I was honestly surprised that configure generated *anything* other than a file listing the detected and overridden settings.
PerlJam Thsi sounds like it would have made a good google SoC :) 23:40
japhb I created config::gen::opengl and config::gen::call_list because they needed to fit into the current config framework, but it's always struck me as wrong.
PerlJam: Too bad I can't even remotely afford to live on SoC wages. Plus I'm not a student. ;-) 23:41
smash cya all tomorrow
PerlJam At the very least it sounds like something that someone should apply to TPF for a grant for.
(assuming someone has an idea how it should work) 23:42
japhb Too bad we can't do retroactive TPF grants: "OK, I just did Feature X. It took me 43 hours. I'm applying for a grant for the Feature X results, so that I can afford to do that again with Feature Y." 23:43
PerlJam japhb: just do the work but don't release it until after you've gotten the grant ;> 23:44
japhb World's most detailed grant application. :-)
"I know exactly how this would have to work ...." 23:45
Anyway, re: config and build system ... 23:47
PerlJam japhb: anyway .. just do the work :) 23:48
japhb PerlJam: If I keep getting bug reports from people who haven't run 'make realclean', I just might. It's frustrating to my work get spurious bug reports because the whole procedure doesn't DWIM for most people. 23:49
Wow, that was mangled grammar. 23:50
OK, what is the DWIM thing? Why are people so adverse to 'make realclean'
? 23:51
PerlJam perhaps it's just because it's an extra step to have to remember. 23:52
japhb From other projects that people are on, how are the makefiles generated? Is it expected that Configure does this? 23:53
PerlJam 'make fromscratch' that did make realclean; perl Configure.pl && make # one step, easy to remember :-) 23:55
japhb PerlJam: that assumes that we have a 'local prefs' file that tells Configure.pl about it's overrides, so that when it is rerun there, it produces a matching config to what was done by hand 23:56
... which I was thinking made sense anyway.
perl Configure.pl <options> should really just write <options> to the prefs file (or a temp one, whatever) and then run normally 23:57

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