www.parrotcode.org/ | Last release: 0.7.1 "Manu Aloha"
Set by moderator on 17 September 2008.
00:02 Ademan joined
dalek r31423 | coke++ | trunk: 00:03
: [tcl] use exceptions that behave like [error] - fixes some spectests.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31423
r31424 | coke++ | trunk: 00:04
: [tcl] don't bother running tests we know to fail. (moritz++ for reminding me.)
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31424
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chromatic moritz, I don't think it does. pm's implementation there may not be perfect, but the idea is sound. 00:24
I haven't read the patch yet, so I'm not suggesting the implementation is problematic, by the way. 00:26
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dalek r31425 | coke++ | trunk: 00:33
: [tcl] whoops, unskip passing test.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31425
r31426 | chromatic++ | trunk: 00:40
: [ncigen] Removed hard-coded path in shebang line, per Perl::Critic policy.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31426
r31427 | chromatic++ | trunk:
: [Tcl] Removed hard tabs in Tcl test tool.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31427
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dalek r31428 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 04:20
: [rakudo]: Update dec_number to avoid split/join removal of underscores.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31428
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dalek r31429 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 05:15
: [rakudo]: Allow underscore in exponents.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31429
r31430 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 05:34
: [rakudo]: Allow unspace before dotty ops.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31430
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dalek r31431 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 06:04
: [rakudo]: STD.pm convergence -- dotty postcircumfix and methodops
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31431
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dalek r31432 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 06:29
: [rakudo]: Leave .= to be parsed as infix for now.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31432
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isop is there some way to make a rule not insert smart whitespace at a specific point? 08:13
moritz don't use a whitespace in the rule at that point
isop ah hmm 08:16
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Ontolog I want to debug my actions.pm but it seems adding 'say' statements doesn't work 09:37
Any way to debug it?
masak Ontolog: put custom attributes in the PAST output? 09:38
Ontolog uhh 09:39
you lost me
i am a complete noob 09:40
masak Ontolog: no need to debase yourself by using words such as 'noob'. :) 09:43
'beginner' is perfectly fine 09:44
actions.pm generates an abstract syntax tree, yes?
that's its job
I'm sure you can find more info about that in the Rakudo dev docs somewhere 09:45
or in the PCT docs
once you know what PAST is, you'll see why you don't really need 'say' 09:48
also, there's a way to set Rakudo to output PAST instead of running the program 09:49
something like --target=PAST
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Ontolog yes i know about that 10:04
i am going through the tutorial
on parrotblog.org
i just can't get the simple assignment to work a=1
apparently Method 'item' not found for invocant of class 'Undef' 10:05
scsys.co.uk:8001/18862 10:06
scsys.co.uk:8001/18863 10:07
that's actions.pm and grammar.pg
again I am just running a=1
the output from --target=past *looks* ok to me but again I am a beginner
oops wait no 10:08
it doesn't even get to past stage here
output of parse looks ok
shown here: scsys.co.uk:8001/18864
dalek r31433 | kjs++ | trunk: 10:11
: [pirc/new] convert another linked list into a hashtable data structure.
: Not sure if this really improves performance. A small test program told me a hashtable is only faster starting from 1500 strings or so.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31433
masak Ontolog: ah, you're building yourself a language? 10:21
I haven't done that yet, so I don't know if I can be of much assistance :)
Ontolog masak: just for the purpose of understanding how it works
masak but surely others in here can
Ontolog++ # curiosity
Ontolog haha thanks 10:22
i don't think i can help much with Rakudo unless I understand these basics
masak don't say that :) it makes me feel inadequate... 10:24
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masak heads over to parrotblog.org 10:24
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GeJ masak: trunk/languages/squaak/doc will do as well. 10:38
masak GeJ: gracias
I think this is just what I need, too.
GeJ I should reread them too. 10:40
cognominal is it possible de derive a grammar from another and change the precedence (and meaning) of an operator? 10:51
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dalek r31434 | coke++ | trunk: 11:35
: [tcl] update spec test numbers
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31434
r31435 | jkeenan++ | trunk: 11:51
: Correct use of hard tabs in three locations, which was causing failure of coding standards test.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31435
11:58 Ontolog joined
pmichaud ('say' in actions.pm) say works just fine in actions.pm -- just don't forget the parens. 12:13
say 'hello'; # error
say('hello'); # works
masak nqp is like a Perl 6 for ascetics :) 12:20
pmichaud we're just trying to keep the parsing simple. :-)
masak aye
pmichaud but I'm thinking I either need to get listop forms to report an error, or go ahead and add listops. 12:21
masak mm
pmichaud since "say doesn't work in NQP" ends up being a commonly reported problem :-)
masak :)
I've been toying with the idea of fleshing out the test suite for nqp 12:22
looks like pleasant work
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dalek r31436 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 12:50
: [rakudo]: spectest-progress.csv update: 180 files, 3897 passing tests
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31436
Ontolog cool thanks I'll try say() 12:59
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Coke (3897 passing tests). Hurm. I wonder if I can catch up there. 13:51
moritz I think it's not a fair comparison (in terms of men power ;) 13:53
Coke ... Yes, I have you hopelessly outnumbered? 13:56
I think I can actually pass you in the short term, though.
(since a lot of partcl is already written; I just need a few more shims here and there to be able to run the tests.) 13:57
moritz until jonathan is back you have me outnumbered ;) 13:59
masak moritz: I'll help you.
moritz but we have the advantage of more contributors to the test suite
masak: I'm looking forward to it 14:00
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Ontolog oh yo 14:08
dalek r31437 | moritz++ | trunk:
: [rakudo] add three more files to spectest_regression
: (azawawi++ for fudging two of them)
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31437
Ontolog in pir creating a loop makes a new scope???
moritz pir has loops? 14:09
Ontolog i have a situation $S99 = 'duh'; loop_label: printerr $S99; goto label
printerr doesn't print out 'duh'
only if i set $S99 in the loop
particle you don't go to loop_label
Ontolog just a typo
particle only .sub creates a new scope
Ontolog hmmmmmm 14:10
moritz most likely something other is wrong
Ontolog this is the interactive loop 14:11
in HLLCompiler
i am trying to fix a small bug with the prompt
particle did you try a test program?
Ontolog nope... i'm thinking the interactive loop must be doing something special 14:12
resetting all the registers or something
nopaste "particle" at 98.232.28.49 pasted "simple test (working)" (8 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/14175 14:13
Ontolog thanks particle 14:14
particle need to hit <ctrl-d> after you input your program with parrot -
Ontolog doesn't it evaluate after a newline?
particle parrot's not as broken as you suspected ;)
no, newlines are allowed in pir, like between subs
or within, whatever 14:15
Ontolog but in interactive mode 14:19
when i press enter
the line gets evaluated
particle this is parrot, not perl6.pbc
pmichaud ....interactive mode? for PIR? 14:20
moritz which makes sense, because you can put multiple Perl 6 statements in one line
you can't in PIR
particle there's no interactive mode for pir 14:21
"parrot -" is different from "parrot perl6.pbc"
pmichaud ahhhhhh
it's parrot reading from stdin
particle runs off to the airport, back later for hacking & 14:22
pmichaud right, the program doesn't get compiled/run until the whole thing is read (i.e., until ctrl+d if entering from standard input)
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Ontolog pmichaud: i sent a patch for HLLCompiler.pir 14:28
pmichaud rt #? 14:29
Ontolog 59366 14:30
it's some minor thing
not very important
just the prompt thing was bothering me 14:31
pmichaud the patch also adds "monkey" to languages.pm ? 14:33
:-D 14:34
Ontolog oops 14:39
no on
that is a mistake sorry
pmichaud no problem :-)
Ontolog i was practicing on my own language
haha
NotFound If you want full interactivity you can try pirric ;)
Ontolog pirric? is that another binary? 14:40
NotFound Is a Basic interpreter '80 style 14:41
Ontolog ahhh
i remember we had crazy old computers in high school 14:42
and we did some TRS-80 programming
using basic
NotFound examples/pir/pirric.pir
Then you'll feel like at home.
Coke whee, getting an assertion in src/string.c 14:45
(cd languages/tcl; make spectest to get the t_tcl directory and the binary files, but you can kill it after the cvs checkout); ../../parrot tcl.pbc t_tcl/binary.test # eventually goes boom. 14:47
... if someone's bored. =-)
moritz purl, bored is <reply>bored? build a nuke! 14:48
purl ...but bored is <reply>Knuth said something about boredom which I'm not going to quote. or |<action> does a little dance or garfieldminusgarfield.tumblr.com/po...1365506...
moritz purl, bored is also <reply>bored? build a nuke! 14:49
purl okay, moritz.
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Coke moritz: I think you need extra care to get it to pick one of a list. 14:50
bored?
purl does a little dance or garfieldminusgarfield.tumblr.com/post/31365506 or <reply>bored? build a nuke!
moritz ah, probably 14:51
well, not that important
moritz leaves purl broken, wihtout any guilty feelings
NotFound Poor purl
purl NotFound, can you spare a dime.
masak purl is the #parrot equivalent if the Office Paperclip 14:54
moritz lol
masak s/if/of/
Coke bored? 14:55
purl bored is garfieldminusgarfield.tumblr.com/post/31365506
Coke bored?
purl does a little dance
Coke yay, fixed.
NotFound masak: looks like you are making a joke. Do you want help?
moritz Coke: so what was the magical incantation?
Coke random factoid is choice1|choice2|choice3 14:56
random factoid?
purl feature creep
Coke random factoid?
purl feature creep
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Coke change 1USD to DEM 14:57
purl Coke: that doesn't look right
moritz Coke: DEM is long dead ;)
NotFound DEM?
Coke change 1USD to euro 14:58
purl Coke: that doesn't look right
DEM is "jeff" also
Coke duetschemark
moritz Deutsche Mark died on 2000-12-31, iirc
Coke I was just trying the infobot example, 'sall.
moritz ok ;)
Coke the pound?
purl the pound is, like, on => vt. Syn. {bang on}
NotFound Old pounds never die
moritz purl, 1 meter in foot 14:59
purl moritz: what?
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masak moritz: 'in feet', p'haps? 15:05
moritz purl, 1 meter in feet?
purl bugger all, i dunno, moritz
masak haha
moritz stupid infobot
masak purl: you're obnoxious _and_ ignorant
purl masak: what?
dalek r31438 | moritz++ | trunk:
: [rakudo] one more test for rakudo
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31438
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pmichaud getting the prompt to work properly in hllcompiler is tricky :-| 15:24
Tene cardinal's prompt has some weird issues I haven't looked into yet. 15:28
pmichaud the patch I'm working on now may fix it a bit
Tene pmichaud++
Coke I know tcl jumps through hoops because readline doesn't work the same if you have readline vs. you don't.
(in one case I have to print the prompt, the other I get it for free. most annoying) 15:29
pmichaud yes, that's essentially what HLL compiler is looking at
Tene pmichaud: Thank you for PCT and PGE. They're delightful to work with.
pmichaud You're very welcome.
I like bringing delight into people's lives.
I think pmc2c is b0rken 15:41
in src/pmc/parrotio.pmc, look at the code that is generated for RETURN(INTVAL -1)
it looks to me as though it's actually return 1 15:42
*returning
instead of -1
nopaste "pmichaud" at 76.183.97.54 pasted "incorrect code generated by pmc2c...?" (18 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/14177 15:43
pmichaud anyone around who groks pmc2c? or should I file a ticket? 15:44
looks like a ticket. 15:48
Infinoid I'm looking at it, but no promises. its a badly generated $returns_accessors in PCCMETHOD.pm 15:52
I'm guessing its a simple regex failure... it affects a couple of RETURN(INTVAL -2)'s above, too.
/[\\**]?(\\"?\\w+\\"?)/ is dropping the leading hyphen 16:08
Infinoid stares at that for a while. 16:09
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moritz is that a Perl 6 regex? 16:09
pmichaud no, p5
moritz then it's weird
pmichaud yes, it is. 16:10
moritz no need to escape * in a char class
pmichaud or to double it.
moritz aye
pmichaud I think someone was thinking p6 regex when they wrote that
it probably should be \\**
moritz or was just plain confused ;)
pmichaud with no brackets
but that's strictly a guess.
Infinoid - if ($name =~ /[\\**]?(\\"?\\w+\\"?)/) { 16:11
+ if ($name =~ /[\\**]?(\\"?[-\\w]+\\"?)/) {
that seems to generate -1 correctly. no idea if it breaks anything else tho
moritz that also allows a-a 16:12
pmichaud RT #59374
moritz is that allowed?
pmichaud depends on how strict we think pmc2c should be in parsing source, I guess. 16:13
Infinoid it's meant to keep from stripping the - in "RETURN(INTVAL -1)"
particle where is this code? i'll have a look
Infinoid lib/Parrot/Pmc2c/PCCMETHOD.pm at around line 285
moritz then better -?(\\"?[\\w+]...
Infinoid I don't really see a problem with it handling complex math expressions. the generated C can handle that, at least for the RETURN() case 16:14
I think the \\w is too strict
I think it won't let you return STRING "funny-stuff" either 16:15
pmichaud sure, but then why just '-'? We would need + * % / .....
moritz and what about whitespaces?
Infinoid if you wanted to handle all strings, then if the quotes are there, it should match pretty much anything but another quote
ENEEDMORETESTS 16:16
particle so, it can either be a variable, variable pointer, string, or expression 16:23
pmichaud I don't think we should allow expression. 16:24
because a string is already an expression.
particle -1 is an expression
pmichaud so is "hello"
but PCCMETHOD obviously treats "hello" specially for some reason 16:25
particle not really, it sticks it in $name
pmichaud also, the part that parses RETURN(...) doesn't allow inner parens for some reason, so there are a lot of expressions that don't work anyway
yes, but it sticks it in $name without the quotes
particle with the quotes 16:26
Infinoid the quotes are matched too
pmichaud oh, you're correct, sorry.
Infinoid but leading * isn't matched, strangely.
particle (\\"?\\w+\\"?)
pmichaud at any rate, it looks to me like it's trying to match terms and not expressions
-1 is a term.
particle by and far, the common case is variable name/pointer name
ah, yes, term
pmichaud it doesn't match floating points, though.
Infinoid hmm. If you asked it to return *foo, then why wouldn't it want to return *foo?
pmichaud we can't PCCRETURN a pointer. 16:27
particle right. yet. but, it's unlikely we'll be returning floats from a pmc method
Infinoid * dereferences a pointer and gives you the pointed-to value
so if you have a pointer to an int, *int gives you the int, which sounds a lot more return-able
particle that's handled by the value in $arg, passed to $linear_args 16:28
that is, the type conversion is done elsewhere
nopaste "particle" at 98.232.28.49 pasted "my current debugging setup" (26 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/14178 16:31
particle so far, i don't see any strings returned (using the original regex and my print statements)
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dalek r31439 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 16:33
: [pct]: Clean up prompting and readline in HLLCompiler interactive mode.
: * Fixes RT #52280 and #59366, once #59374 is fixed. :-)
: * Based on a patch from "Chris Davaz" <cdavaz@gmail.com> (Ontolog++)
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31439
particle not a single string returned, just variables and ints
Infinoid I grepped and failed to find any RETURNs in .pmc files with a string literal 16:36
also searched all the languages. 16:37
particle dynpmc? 16:42
i'm ready to rip it out
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pmichaud afk, lunch 16:53
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dalek r31440 | moritz++ | trunk: 17:09
: [rakudo] one more test for spectest_regression
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31440
allison@perl.org | milestones:
link: www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index...milestones
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dalek r31441 | particle++ | trunk: 17:39
: [perl #59374] [BUG] pmc2c produces incorrect code for RETURN(INTVAL -1) -- fixed bug in Parrot::Pmc2c::PCCMETHOD
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31441
Coke particle: did you mean to leave in those print statements? 17:42
(I haven't looked at anything other than the diff; they just look suspicious)
Coke tries to wait for t_tcl/expr.t to finish. :| 17:43
particle oh crud
they totally snuck back in there after i removed them :( 17:45
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dalek r31442 | particle++ | trunk: 17:46
: [pmc2c] remove debugging code -- coke++ particle--
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31442
Coke ugh. have over 500 tests passing in files that don't complete, so they are not counted. 18:06
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dalek r31443 | Whiteknight++ | trunk: 18:50
: [Book] Add two new stub chapters for PMCs + the PMC compiler, and Opcodes + the opcode compiler. Also added a readme file to explain the current organization
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31443
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pmichaud particle: shall I mark RT #59374 as resolved? 19:20
PerlJam pm: guess where I'm sitting right now. :) (good afternoon btw) 19:21
particle pmichaud: looks resolved to me. if it works for you, yes 19:22
pmichaud: i didn't test *with* readline
pmichaud: i lost a toenail last night during soccer :( 19:23
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pmichaud PerlJam: on the beach? 19:23
PerlJam: in my old office?
particle: yes, it works for me, thanks. Closing ticket. 19:24
particle: we had a player with a virtual concussion (MRIs are negative so far, but as of yesterday he still has no memory of Sunday.) 19:25
PerlJam pm: the former would be nice except for the sand in the keyboard. The latter is occupied by Phillipe and Deidre and students. No, I'm sitting in NRC3408 (the student office) about 3 feet from Niall. As soon as the paperwork clutter clears HR I'm officially back at TAMUCC.
pmichaud the other team had a player who decided it was his duty to take at least one of our players out of the game.
(actually, he's out for the season.) 19:26
PerlJam And ... Niall just told me that I have to pick up a packet from HR
PerlJam bbl
pmichaud PerlJam: congrats
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davidfetter waves to ruoso from unicamp 19:42
dalek r31444 | Whiteknight++ | trunk: 19:50
: [Book] update a few heading levels, and write some introductory stuff about opcodes and pmcs
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31444
moritz pmichaud: what happened to your "this week in perl 6" idea?
Tene iirc, nobody has volunteered to produce such reports. 19:53
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Coke having never done it, it seems like a -lot- of work to generate those weekly reports. 20:01
Tene You could take the summaries from #ps and presume reliable and complete reporting.
PerlJam If you take the tack that you're just reporting the facts and don't try to editorialize too much, you should be okay. Though you may get blamed when the facts are sparse. 20:04
pmichaud every time I say "I'm going to do it tonight", something happens that night to distract me 20:05
for example, earlier in the week I decided it was more important to get the lexicals design out than the this week in perl
PerlJam pm: sounds like you made the right choice though. (correct choices)++ 20:06
pmichaud tonight might be a very good candidate, though. :-) 20:07
Tene dmknopp tells me that he mailed his CLA through 3-day mail. 20:08
He sent it a week ago last Tuesday.
PerlJam Tene: the universe is trying to tell him something. 20:09
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pmichaud I'm in favor of provisional commit bits 20:26
i.e., we can grant the commit bit but roll it back if the cla doesn't arrive within x days
particle we should have a committers file with listed sponsors/mentors or something 20:27
pmichaud or just add a "sponsors" declaration to CREDITS
moritz +1
purl 1
pmichaud PerlJam: so, where is your office going to be? ;-)
particle also needs a member field, then; contributor/committer/etc 20:28
PerlJam pm: When Don leaves, next to Gary (supposedly).
pmichaud oh, that's workable.
(next to Gary)
not as good a view as NRC, though :-P 20:29
PerlJam I don't care about the view as much as the social dynamics I think. 20:30
pmichaud social dynamics should be pretty good then
depends who else is in the building
Tene The people in a given building can significantly affect the view, too. ;) 20:31
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dalek r31445 | moritz++ | trunk: 20:31
: [cage] svn props in docs/book/
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31445
Tene I've been too tired and busy lately to commit his stuff for him, and he's working up a backlog. 20:33
dalek r31446 | moritz++ | trunk:
: [cage] removed trailing spaces in pct
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31446
PerlJam pm: I was thinking of the social dynamics between me and people not necessarily in the building. 20:34
Coke tene -if the snail mailed version is lost, can he fax in a copy ? 20:36
particle need a hard copy for permanent storage
fax can only be used for provisional bit 20:37
Tene I don't know if it's lost. I think chromatic said he just had to stop by the PO box.
particle still no way around that part of the law, unfortunately, but i know some lawyers working on it
Tene particle: I faxed mine. I never shipped anything anywhere.
particle hrmm, interesting.
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Coke SFAIK, I have yet to sign one. 20:38
particle didn't you sign one in toronto in person? 20:40
i think chromatic brought a stack there
Tene In person... I should really attend a perl conference someday to meet the rest of you.
pmichaud the first time the cla's came out was in chicago (2006) 20:41
toronto was 2005 :-)
particle nope, will coleda - NO CLA ON FILE
oh, right chicago
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pmichaud woo hoo! rakudo spectest regression: 185 test files 5561 5845 4015 0 334 1496 20:43
4015 passing tests!
Tene Nice.
pmichaud I'm definitely writing an article tonight.
Tene I'll see if I can work out the semantics of next/last/redo exceptions in pir this weekend. 20:46
Then see about adding them to PCT.
Coke pmichaud: damnit, how am I supposed to catchup now? =-) 20:49
Tene pmichaud: can you add exception types for next/last/redo please?
dalek r31447 | fperrad++ | trunk:
: [NEWS] add an entry for Markdown
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31447
Coke -> 20:50
Tene If someone adds them in the next 20 minutes or so before I leave, I'll try to work on it in the plane. 20:51
pmichaud Tene: you mean the constants?
Tene Yeah.
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pmichaud .CONTROL_LOOP_NEXT, .CONTROL_LOOP_LAST, .CONTROL_LOOP_REDO is what I'd vote for 20:51
Tene Okay.
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dalek r31448 | moritz++ | trunk: 20:56
: [rakudo] add tests for RT #59382 to spectest_regression
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31448
pmichaud dinnertime 20:59
purl it has been said that dinnertime is Masque's least productive time. Feed kids, then tired kids. Oy.
dalek r31449 | moritz++ | trunk: 21:04
: [rakudo] add tests for definedness to spectest_regression
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31449
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dalek r31450 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 22:29
: [rakudo]: Fix prefix:- and prefix:+ to better handle out-of-range Ints.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31450
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Tene Huh. There's wireless at the Denver airport. 23:12
dalek r31451 | tene++ | trunk: 23:33
: Merge exceptionmagic branch into trunk.
: [exceptionhandler]
: * Add a min_severity, max_severity, and handled_types attribute
: * Add methods to set and fetch the attributes
: * USe the attributes in can_handle
: * Add a test for the new functionality
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31451
Tene pings pmichaud. 23:40
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Tene offline now. Airport wireless apparently causes kernel panics today. 23:43
Morglet 'Morning. :-) If I have a PIR string register foo, how do I pick out the nth character of the string? 23:45
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Morglet Sorry @ noddy question, couldn't find it in any FAQ or tutorial, and [] indexing doesn't work. 23:46
pmichaud Morglet: $S0 = substr foo, n, 1 23:47
Morglet Thanks, that'll do as it's outside of the inner loop. I was looking for a primitive string operation, but no need :-) 23:48
trying now ... :-) 23:49
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