Parrot 2.8.0 released | parrot.org Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | Nopaste: nopaste.snit.ch:8001 | close configure component tickets
Set by moderator on 12 October 2010.
davidfetter magnush++ for making that git transition actually happen :) 00:17
cotto is he the osuosl guy? 00:22
also, isn't that a bit premature?
davidfetter um, for pg, the git transition is done 00:23
for parrot, not yet. :)
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davidfetter magnush == magnus hagander. he's worked at getting the pg transition done for years. 00:23
cotto I see. props to him then. 00:24
kid51 The article was a fine documentation of the challenges which OS projects face in making infrastructural transitions. 00:25
davidfetter heaps praise on the people who do all the non-sexy stuff that makes the world run smoothly 00:26
like maintaining and upgrading infrastructure, for example
cotto It really depends on your definition of "sexy". 00:27
dalek rrot: r49530 | jkeenan++ | branches/tt1824_ipv6_configure:
Creating branch to work on �trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1824.
 00:30
davidfetter o/` i'm // too sexy for my source code management system // too sexy for my source code management system // no way i'm disco dancing o/`
sorry. right said fred moment. 00:31
cotto np. It happens to everybody.
davidfetter really?!?
cotto Sure. I thought it was common knowledge. 00:32
dalek rrot: r49531 | jkeenan++ | branches/tt1824_ipv6_configure (2 files):
Create directory and files needed for adding configuration step auto::ipv6. (No real content yet.)
 00:45
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dalek rrot: r49532 | jkeenan++ | branches/tt1824_ipv6_configure (3 files):
Begin to translate patch from kurahaupo++ into configuration step probe. Not actually set up yet.
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cotto What's a good way to create an inner runloop in pure pir? 01:46
nm. FIA.sort looks like it'll do nicely. 01:47
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cotto Hmmm. Custom sort subs aren't tested. I'm taking bets on whether they work. 01:51
(for fia)
segfault 01:52
dalek rrot: r49533 | cotto++ | trunk/t/pmc/fixedpmcarray.t:
[t] remove comment about an obsolete ticket
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cotto At least FPA works 02:20
And after all that, no inner runloops. 02:22
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cotto What's the magic invocation to TODO a test in nqp? 05:21
also, why is "ok" available when "todo" isn't? 05:23
Oh. It's explicitly built-in. 05:25
bacek_at_work cotto, I use parrot's Test::More in PIRATE. 05:49
cotto I'll steal that. 06:00
Q:PIR looks much easier than messing around with pure nqp 06:03
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dalek rrot: r49534 | cotto++ | trunk/src/runcore/profiling.c:
[profiling] factor out op time recording into a separate function
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bacek ~~ 08:07
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cotto Parrot keeps track of runloop levels. Who knew. 08:12
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dalek rrot: r49535 | cotto++ | trunk (3 files):
[profiling] use parrot's internal runloop tracking and add a test to make sure
 08:29
cotto An additional benefit is that the user will now have an extra sizeof(INTVAL) bytes free while profiling. It should help out on machines with low memory. 08:33
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moritz you mean, per process? or per PMC? 08:36
cotto per instance of parrot 08:40
no need to thank me
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moritz if you run parrot often enough, you'll see the difference :-) 08:44
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cotto seen chromatic 10:29
aloha chromatic was last seen in #parrot 1 days 11 hours ago saying "Most of it is doable by a C capable novice.".
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brianwisti Oh hey neat. Ubuntu 10.10 has parrot 2.6.0, with parrot-nqp available in parrot-dev. 17:29
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moritz \\o/ 17:48
brianwisti: is there also a rakudo package?
brianwisti Sadly, no.
moritz ah well, I hope it's only a matter of time :-) 17:50
brianwisti There is a Rakudo package in Debian Experimental, though: packages.debian.org/experimental/rakudo 17:51
Looks like Ubuntu grabbed from Debian unstable for their parrot deb files. So maybe if/when Rakudo gets into unstable? 17:54
allison brianwisti/moritz: the guy who was doing experimental packaging for Rakudo on Debian kind of disappeared. I'd be happy to help anyone who wants to start it up again. 17:58
brianwisti/moritz: I do the packaging for Parrot on Debian/Ubuntu, and have to explicitly request the update for each new supported release 17:59
brianwisti allison: Ah, I should have known. Thanks for that! I've never done any sort of distro packaging, so I won't pretend I can help with Rakudo. 18:00
allison brianwisti: no worries, glad to know people are using the 2.6 packages in 10.10 :) 18:01
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cotto dukeleto, are the git workflow, branching/merging and release docs done? 19:14
whiteknight do we have any kind of an ETA for git-switch yet? 19:16
cotto after the next release 19:17
preferably soon after
whiteknight nice. I'm very much looking forward to it 19:18
hopefully I'll be able to get back into development after that
cotto The big blocker is a strategy for letting HLLs use a specific non-release version of Parrot or something later.
dukeleto I talked with allison, kid51 and chromatic about that stuff last night at the PDX Hackathon 19:24
Consensus is that I was making life too difficult, and the simplest possible thing that can work will do for now. 19:25
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dukeleto Releases of HLL's will only be able to depend on a release of Parrot, but arbitrary version of an HLL can depend on a sha1, as long as the parrot repo is present. 19:26
This will be much easier to implement. I just need some time to do it.
cotto I'm glad that's (temporarily) out of the way. 19:28
dukeleto I was letting rare edge cases complicate things, which I am sometimes very good at.
cotto Is it too early to send out an announcement with a firm timeline for the migration? 19:29
dukeleto I think so, since I can't promise any dates currently. Once we have the last two tools converted over, and have talked to OSUOSL a bit more about what we need from them, we can do that.
I will be visiting the Portland office of OSUOSL tomorrow, so maybe I can talk to them about it 19:30
allison dukeleto: are we planning to host with OSUOSL, or with github?
cotto Are you familiar with now to configure the navadd plugin for trac?
allison, github
github.com/parrot/parrot 19:31
allison cotto: good, I'm not even sure if OSU OSL does git hosting :)
dukeleto allison: github will be our main mirror, but we can decide to mirror in as many places as we want. We just need to tell people "for now, X is canonical" 19:32
if we decide we don't like github, we can always move. But github makes managing teams and commit access very easy.
I would like to set up mercurial and bzr mirrors as well. 19:33
I don't want anybody left in the cold.
Actually, I would like there to be other mirrors, but *I* don't want to set them up :)
allison dukeleto: I'll use the bzr mirror, if it works
cotto dukeleto, what'd be the right github API key for trac.parrot.org to use? 19:34
dukeleto allison: ok.
cotto: good question. not sure at the moment
dukeleto looks to see if the parrot org has it's own api key
cotto that'd be the logical one
if it exists
dukeleto cotto: what does it need the api key for? 19:35
cotto the post-receive url
so that nobody except github can inject commits into the db 19:36
Let me make sure I have that right. 19:37
dukeleto cotto: i can't find an api key for an organization, but I only looked quickly. Please add notes to the wiki page about this. 19:39
cotto verified; api token is necessary
dukeleto, do you know how to configure the navadd plugin for trac or should I include instructions on it with the github plugin instructions? 19:40
dukeleto cotto: i have never done that before, so please add instructions 19:43
cotto: i would imagine that we need to create a custom github account with an API key that has access to the repo, which will only be used for trac
cotto: since I don't want my API key in there. 19:44
cotto ok. Also, it looks like an api token isn't needed, just an arbitrary string.
dukeleto cotto: ah, cool.
cotto I'll use "qwerty". That should be secure.
;)
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cotto dukeleto, are all the docs (workflow, branching/merging, release) updated for git? 20:15
dukeleto cotto: i believe they are sufficient to migrate to git, but I would like to add more docs for how to optimally setup git and such. But the answer is "Mostly Yes" 20:17
cotto: i even created a git terminology document, that will hopefully grow
cotto I'll cross them off GitMigration then.
dukeleto cotto++ 20:19
cotto Will we keep svn.parrot.org around read-only, and for how long? 20:20
allison cotto: for the sake of avoiding confusion, I'd rather drop svn.parrot.org entirely 20:33
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cotto I'd prefer to keep it read-only, but I can see it being a source of confusion. 20:35
dukeleto++ 20:38
cotto goes off to draft some messages to parrot-dev
dukeleto cotto: github has a svn read-write mirror of all git repos, so we can just turn it off and tell people to use the github svn interface 20:41
cotto: we should probably keep the old svn repo around for maybe a few days or a week, while we tell people how to migrate 20:42
cotto wfm 20:43
dukeleto i just added it to the migration plan 20:46
cotto dukeleto, for the actual migration it looks like we need a time when you, me and an osuosl admin will all be around to coordinate. Can you think of anyone else? 20:50
davidfetter waves to dukeleto
dukeleto davidfetter: howdy 20:53
cotto: hmmmm
davidfetter dukeleto, so about PL/Parrot 20:54
who's the first end user, and why? 20:55
dukeleto cotto: we should have someone on the rakudo side that we notify when we do things, but they don't need to be available 20:56
davidfetter: Rakudo Perl 6 is our first end user, PL/Perl6 is the first useful application of PL/Parrot and Perl 6 grammars are the first useful feature of that application 20:57
davidfetter: who will use grammars to do what is still up in the air
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cotto Logical. I'd think pmichaud, but I haven't seen him around here much. 20:57
dukeleto davidfetter: and currently pl/perl6 grammars are broke due to changes in Rakudo
These are the kind of links that I want to provide for the web interface to mk_language_shell: matt.might.net/articles/implementin...-language/ . A mixture of theory and parrot docs. 21:00
davidfetter dukeleto, interesting. what domains would you expect DSLs to be helpful in? 21:05
dukeleto, frex, are they something that would come in handy in biology?
dukeleto davidfetter: could be, but biologists mostly don't use DSL's, or at least don't call them that. But that doesn't mean they couldn't benefit from them. 21:07
davidfetter well, few people use DSLs because constructing a language is a giant PITA 21:08
...or was until now :)
dukeleto added the PDX Parrot hackathon to the google calendar
davidfetter: yep, there are many future possibilities due to changing conditions 21:09
davidfetter: but i think getting people in the door with PL/Perl6 will be easier, then they will have time to see the light ;)
brianwisti dukeleto: I'm still not sure how much I can contribute to the hacking part of the hackathon, but I'm looking forward to it just the same.
dukeleto brianwisti: yes, it will be very nice to meet people and just talk about stuff face-to-face 21:10
brianwisti: we can talk about parrot babysteps posts and things like that
davidfetter brianwisti, there's a persistent and silly idea that the only skill needed at a hackathon is Deep Programming Knowledge
the persistence is almost as silly as the idea itself 21:11
dukeleto brianwisti: also, parrot wants to solicit feedback from users, like what stuff needs improvement and things like that
cotto brianwisti, do you live in WA?
dukeleto cotto: both of you are in Seattle, methinks
brianwisti Right. And I have a doc site project on the backburner that I could pull out and work on. Along the lines of perldoc.perl.org
yup
cotto: I live near Greenlake, work in Belltown. 21:12
cotto not quite Seattle, but close
brianwisti cotto: Where are you at?
cotto Redmond
brianwisti Pretty close indeed.
Hm. I seem to have found encoding weirdness in my laptop setup. 21:15
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brianwisti Wait, this might actually be a bug in Parrot 2.6 on my Ubuntu 10.10 install. Checking out via SVN to see if gist.github.com/626686 still causes me problems. 21:26
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cotto dukeleto, how long does it take to sync the github mirror with svn? 21:33
Why did dalek stop following wiki updates? 21:37
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dukeleto cotto: less than a minute 21:42
cotto: i am still thinking about doing a full repo translation with a proper author map. it is more work now, but will make searching for things in the future easier
cotto: that could take a few hours, but i can do a test run to see exactly how long it would take 21:43
cotto ok 21:44
dukeleto that is an optional step right now. 21:45
cotto That sounds like it'd mean that people should avoid committing to local clones of the github repo during the migration.
dukeleto cotto: it would change every sha1 in parrot.git
brianwisti Okay, what I found *was* a bug, but it's been fixed since 2.6.0. Looking forward to 2.9 release :) 21:46
cotto that's a yes
what's the leto/testing branch? 21:51
looks like nothing important 21:53
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cotto All messages about the migration are drafted. I'm itching to send them out. 21:58
dukeleto cotto: leto/testing can be deleted. just a "does this work" branch 22:11
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whiteknight dukeleto: copy the svn repo locally before doing the import into git, if you can 22:31
saves a hell of a lot of time in network transactions
sorear How does one copy a svn repo? 22:32
dukeleto whiteknight: i requested someone to give me a local copy of the svn repo, but i haven't gotten one and i forgot who I asked 22:34
sorear: a tarball of the actual svn repo on disk
whiteknight sorear: ah, I can't remember the command off the top of my head. svnadmin something
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bacek_at_work aloha, humans 22:45
davidfetter 'sup bacek_at_work 22:46
bacek_at_work davidfetter, "_at_work" :)
davidfetter too 22:47
fortunately, work is a pretty cool place to be, atm
bacek_at_work yeah
davidfetter i get to work on Neat Stuff™
bacek_at_work Playing with Plack/PSGI. It's really cool
davidfetter doing things with postgresql 22:48
whiteknight bacek++ # The generational gc work 22:49
bacek_at_work whiteknight, hey! Do you have time to look at it? I'm slightly stuck...
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whiteknight I can't tonight. probably tomorrow 22:50
I don't have my dev laptop back yet
bacek_at_work fair enough
whiteknight I will tomorrow. What do you need looking at? 22:56
bacek_at_work whiteknight, overall logic. Does it make sense, etc. 23:00
whiteknight ok
bacek_at_work To increase Bus Number :)
whiteknight yeah 23:18
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