Parrot 3.2.0 released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | Parrot is accepted for GSoC 2011! Student application deadline is Apr 8
Set by moderator on 27 March 2011.
Tene whiteknight: I should be able to be a backup gsoc mentor, I think. Can you tell me what's involved there? 00:18
whiteknight Tene: awesome. we dont have complete lists yet 00:27
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Tene whiteknight: I suppose that reliability is important for mentor volunteers. I haven't been very reliable in the past. I can still aid gsoc students without being listed as a mentor. 00:29
whiteknight Tene: Don't worry about it, We have a robust community. Every little bit helps
You're reliable enough :) 00:31
Tene whiteknight: 'k, just let me know what would be most appropriate for me to do there, and whether a potentially-unreliable mentor is better than one fewer mentor.
'k
I'll probably fill out that form tonight, then. I'm still dealing with the tail end of moving to a new apartment.
whiteknight We've been looking at new apartments ourselves. Probably going to be dealing with that in the next few months 00:32
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Tene whiteknight: the major lesson for me from this move is that I wish I had realized beforehand that I could pay someone else to move my furniture for me. 00:33
whiteknight We promised that to ourselves last time 00:34
otherwise you call in too many favors, and ruin your back
apts are not designed for moving large furniture into and out of
Tene srsly, not worth it
cotto I like helping friends move on occasion. 00:35
Tene I'm too used to being completely broke; I'm still learning that I'm capable of paying for things now that I have a reasonable income.
dalek rrot/opsc_llvm: 2fa2a5f | bacek++ | / (85 files):
Merge branch 'master' into opsc_llvm

Conflicts:
  \tconfig/auto/llvm.pm
  \tt/steps/auto/llvm-01.t		 00:43
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whiteknight Tene: How do you pronounce "Tene"? 01:09
In my head it always sounds like "Teenie", but I hear pmichaud pronounce it "Tinay" 01:10
or, I heard him say it that way once
cotto does nqp support MAIN these days?
whiteknight cotto: not the last time I checked 01:11
cotto hacks to the future!
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bacek_at_work looks like whiteknight is slightly scared about future and decided to leave :) 01:24
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dalek rrot/opsc_llvm: aff726f | jkeenan++ | t/steps/auto/llvm-01.t:
Undeleted git-conflict marker caused Perl syntax error; delete it.
 01:30
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kid51 bacek_at_work: Currently I'm testing the opsc_llvm branch on my iBook, where LLVM has never been installed. 01:53
bacek_at_work: I noticed that during 'make', the build is running lots of commands which suggest that LLVM libraries are being used/built. 01:54
But why would we do that if LLVM is not found on a box?
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nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "opsc_llvm branch on box with no LLVM: why is 'make' running these commands?" (12 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/39093 01:56
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dalek rrot: 5792dce | jkeenan++ | Configure.pl:
Add entry for '--cxx' to help.
 02:07
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sorear I tend toards "tener" -r 02:26
using Spanish phonology 02:27
cotto nqp is fairly nice once I get over the hump of not remembering anything about it 02:29
nopaste "kid51" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "opsc_llvm branch: patch for makefile template: no need to build llvm if it's not there" (13 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/39094 02:37
kid51 msg bacek nopaste.snit.ch/39094 is for your branch 02:38
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
dalek rrot: f1e7b7e | jkeenan++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
Adjust makefile template for better indentation in 'all' target in Makefile.
 02:40
rrot/opsc_llvm: f04d23a | jkeenan++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
Same commit as in master.
 02:41
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bacek_at_work msg kid51 nopaste looks allright. I'll commit it tonight 03:49
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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cotto what does <xdigit> match? 04:16
I thought it was equivalent to 0-9a-fA-F 04:17
bacek_at_work cotto, I think so 04:19
nopaste "cotto" at 192.168.1.3 pasted "xdigit?" (12 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/39095 04:20
cotto bacek_at_work, am I missing something there? 04:21
bacek_at_work "0x"
hmmm 04:22
it's "rule"
cotto ok 04:23
bacek_at_work yes, it works with "token" 04:29
benabik rule adds <.ws> 04:30
So that's equiv to token { '0x' <.ws> <xdigit>+ }
And ws has <!ww> in it, so won't match between x and A.
cotto ah
benabik I think you want it to be a token, as bacek said 04:31
mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#13513) fulltest) at 3_2_0-108-gf1e7b7e - Ubuntu 10.10 i386 (g++-4.5) 05:05
what is the purpose of the --cxx in Configure.pl 05:08
it was taken out then put back in - I can't see what difference it makes 05:10
cotto it's wanted for llvm
benabik mikehh: It's to specify a C++ compiler, which will be needed for LLVM
dalek rrot: b48aa06 | petdance++ | src/spf_render.c:
Cleaned up canonicalize_exponent:

  * consted SpfInfo pointer arg
  * Reformatted POD docs
  * Normalized variable declarations.		 05:12
sorear mikehh: it was taken out because it wasn't being used at the time
mikehh: there was a period of time when Parrot had no C++ components 05:13
in hindsight it is obvious that this condition would not last
mikehh I already use --cc=g++ --link=g++ --ld=g++
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mikehh so is it just for LLVM 05:14
sorear mikehh: now? yes
but when ICU comes back, we'll need it for that too 05:15
mikehh sorear: comes back? as opposed to using libraries? 05:16
sorear mikehh: ?
for any library with a C++-specific API, we need --cxx 05:17
mikehh sorear: ICU comes back? as opposed to using libicu or something?
sorear mikehh: yeah - talk to jnthn if you want 05:18
sorear wonders what effect 6model will have on jnthn's political power 05:19
mikehh sorear: hey I thought ICU was pretty standard , or is it licencing issues 05:20
or is it a windoze problem? 05:23
sorear mikehh: icu is not very common, so most users don't have it 05:25
mikehh: there are also some issues on windows that make it very hard to install
mikehh sorear: I mostly use Ubuntu/Kubuntu, so I generally install it when I set it up - new beta in a couple of days ;-} 05:28
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dalek rrot/opsc_llvm: 403668a | bacek++ | runtime/parrot/library/LLVM/Value.pm:
Rename few generated methods for consistency with Builder.
 12:12
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whiteknight good morning, #parrot 12:51
lucian whiteknight: good day 12:53
whiteknight hello lucian, how are you doing?
lucian had my last meeting with my supervisor
before i switch over to a new one
whiteknight oh cool. Does a new supervisor bring new and cool research opportunities? 12:54
lucian not really, the old one is just moving to germany
and it's a BSc anyway, i'll finish in 1-2 months
whiteknight oh, okay 12:56
lucian bah, i have a lecture i'd rather not go to 12:58
but i probably should
whiteknight which lecture?
lucian advanced computer graphics
i usually like it, but the lecturer isn't very good, and today's subject is boring
whiteknight oh, fun
lucian i got possibly the most wide-and-thin spread set of modules this year 12:59
graphics, games, computer language theory, real-time programming, mobile apps UI design
lucian has to go. bye! 13:00
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whiteknight I wish I had taken some of those kinds of classes 13:11
My school didn't offer anything like a good language theory class, which is something that I had always wanted to take 13:12
Technically they did offer it, but only every few years when demand was high
msg cotto Found this page today on the interwebs. Interesting read about concurrency. A little bit tangential to the M0, but might help to inform some future decisions: www.cs.nmsu.edu/ALP/2011/03/concurr...c-engines/ 13:17
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
shell hello,whiteknight 13:29
whiteknight hello shell
how are you today?
shell i've been trying winxed
and i have problem building it 13:30
whiteknight really? What's the problem?
shell it said "could not found config.pbc"
i was "making"
whiteknight did you install Parrot?
shell yes
whiteknight and it still says it can't find config.pbc? 13:31
shell right
whiteknight actually, was it looking for config.pbc or config.fpmc?
shell ok,i manually find the config.pbc 13:32
how can i tell it to winxed 13:33
whiteknight I don't know. Winxed should just be able to find it 13:34
this is preventing you from building it at all?
shell yes
not
sorry 13:35
whiteknight ...?
shell it can produce some pir
whiteknight so you have winxed, but you can't use it?
shell right 13:36
whiteknight weird. You might need to ask NotFound what the problem is. He made Wixned
Let's try something different. Get plumage, and use that to install winxed
plumage is the parrot package manager, it will automatically build, test, and install winxed for you 13:37
gist.github.com/894484
shell thanks
whiteknight shell: Have you drafted a proposal yet? 13:38
shell i've just go through the winxed and antlr 13:41
whiteknight okay
shell i'll do that soon 13:42
and i brought a proxy to access git and irc
whiteknight oh, nice
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whiteknight Applications are due April 8th, so you have time 13:43
but if you make drafts, we can help you with them
shell since my school doesn't allow me to use socket to access foreign sites
thanks
whiteknight shell: Is that going to be a problem during the summer
?
shell not at all
whiteknight okay 13:44
shell when would you be online
since we are in different timezone
whiteknight I don't know who your mentor would be
we have developers all over the world 13:45
shell i got it
Coke I assume that winxed build problems would stem from installed parrot not being in path. 13:46
whiteknight Coke: that was my first thought
I only asked if Parrot was installed, not whether it was installed "properly"
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shell i wonder how it found the library 13:47
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shell if it does not find it,i'll do it manually 13:47
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whiteknight shell: did you get plumage? 13:50
plumage makes everything easier
shell i am pulling
whiteknight awesome
shell what the hell.when i am installing plumage,parrot also said that it could find some pbc 13:52
and i found it by myself 13:53
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whiteknight shell: Sounds like your parrot install is broken 13:53
shell: What OS are you on?
shell it must be
windows 13:54
whiteknight make sure your librarys are on your PATH
shell i did that 13:55
bubaflub shell: any spaces in your path?
i know we've had problems with that and windows before
shell i think it is. 13:56
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bubaflub shell: try putting parrot in somewhere like C:\\Parrot just to be sure 13:58
Coke can you run "parrot -?" from the command line?
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NotFound winxed bootstrap prooduces pir using stage 0 compiler without using parrot. The presence of generated pir doesn't mean it was able to use parrot. 14:07
That diagnostic message probably comes from pbc_to_exe 14:08
shell it still could not find the libaary,i fail to build plumage 14:09
whiteknight shell: Okay, you have a problem with Parrot 14:11
somehow it isn't being installed or handled correctly
NotFound shell: How do you installed parrot?
shell it is a msi file
it installed automatically 14:12
NotFound shell: execute this: parrot_config libdir 14:14
shell it said "no such key" 14:20
NotFound Strange. 14:22
moritz shell: what does parrot_config VERSION say?
shell 3.2.0 14:23
ok,it ran sucessfully 14:28
but it is still a problem of parrot installer
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shell well it tell me "could find lreadline" 14:56
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shell how to get the readline library 14:58
bubaflub shell: on windows? i'm not sure. 15:00
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dalek nxed: r911 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
fix compile time concatenation of literal strings of mixed quoting types in
 15:32
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dalek rrot/m0-spec: c9574a5 | cotto++ | m0asm.pm:
add a quarter-done prototype m0 assembler
 15:40
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dalek nxed: r912 | NotFound++ | trunk/ (3 files):
rearrange string literal tests and examples
 15:53
cotto_work ~~ 15:59
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atrodo cotto_work> pong 16:01
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cotto_work atrodo, are you interested in working on an M0 assembler, disassembler or interpreter based on the current spec? 16:02
well, disassembler or interpreter ;)
atrodo I've been thinking about that
I noticed that too ;) 16:03
I was also thinking through the differences between the spec and my prototype, since obviously I'd like to get the two unified 16:05
unfortunately, I haven't had time today yet to figure out what that would take 16:07
cotto_work atrodo: your're in the uk, right?
atrodo Close, Ohio 16:08
I'm curious why you thought uk
cotto_work I thought there was a bigger timezone mismatch.
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dalek rrot/m0-spec: 4721ce7 | cotto++ | hello.0bc:
add a possibly-valid example m0 file to test the assembler on
 17:29
rrot/m0-spec: d90c4c1 | cotto++ | m0asm.pm:
minor fixes for hex->bits conversion
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dalek nxed: r913 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
use a stringbuilder instead of hand-crafted code for argument substitution in
 17:53
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dalek nxed: r914 | NotFound++ | trunk/pir/winxed_compiler.pir:
update installable compiler
 17:58
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cotto_work How easy is winxed to pick up? 18:00
NotFound cotto_work: for me very easy, but I'm a special case ;) 18:06
cotto_work You're very special.
NotFound cotto_work: with a minimal familiarity with javascript syntax and pir knowledge, it should be easy.
For a lot of usages is just pir on steroids. 18:07
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dalek nxed: r915 | NotFound++ | trunk/README:
Very delayed README upadte
 18:30
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mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, make corevm/make coretest, smoke (#13559) fulltest) at 3_2_0-109-gb48aa06 - Ubuntu 10.10 i386 (gcc-4.5 --optimize --gc-gms) 18:41
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mikehh winxed (r015) on parrot 3_2_0-109-gb48aa06 - make all/test/test1/test2 ok - fly and opengl still work 18:52
bah that should be r915
NotFound I'll be surprised if opengl worked on r15 18:54
mikehh NotFound: :-}
atrodo cotto_work> ping 18:57
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plobsing who should I light a fire under to get better thread-safety? 19:19
benabik plobsing: Wouldn't thread-safety involve parrot having threads? 19:21
plobsing benabik: not necessarily 19:22
being thread-friendly and exposing threads are 2 different levels
the first is usually required before the second
benabik Ah. 19:23
plobsing my situation is that I'd like to provide ØMQ bindings for parrot, but it calls the free-message-struct callback from different threads (it manages its own IO thread pools)
we have "asynchronous callbacks", which would reasonably be threadsafe, but the scheduler operations aren't thread-safe 19:26
lucian thread-safety is pretty critical, i'd agree
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bacek Good morning, humans 19:50
dalek rrot/jit_prototype: 0052c45 | bacek++ | compilers/opsc/src/Ops/JIT.pm:
Remove accidentally committed _dumper.
 19:51
bacek plobsing, ping 19:54
tadzik good evening bacek
bacek tadzik, aloha
plobsing bacek: pong
bacek plobsing, what is "the best way" to free resources allocated in nci-called function?
e.g. wrap "malloc" and "free" using nci 19:55
plobsing bacek: which resources are being allocated? if the native code does the allocation, free it using native code
I wouldn't wrap malloc if you can get away with StructView's allocation (and auto-cleanup) 19:56
bacek plobsing, do we have example how to use StructView?
plobsing t/pmc/structview.t has some basic examples
bacek simple case: "char *foo()" returns new allocated c-string. How to call "free" on it? 19:57
plobsing parrot-zeromq also has a number of usages
bacek: if you don't control the allocation, you almost certainly need to wrap free(). there's really no way around that. 19:58
bacek plobsing, yes, I don't mind to "wrap free". I just don't want to write "C" for it. 19:59
plobsing I suspect you are using "t" for the signature on the foo() wrapper. That won't work. "t" doesn't handle resource lifecycle very flexibly, which is why it is deprecated. 20:00
you need to use "p" in stead
bacek yes, "t" looses original string. 20:01
"p" will return (Un)ManagedStruct
There is no way (afaik) to attach custom .destroy to UMS
plobsing which you can (a) convert into a PtrObj with an appropriate destructor (b) call free() on it explicitly when you're finished 20:02
cotto_work atrodo: pong 20:03
bacek plobsing, any samples/examples how to do it?
plobsing bacek: how to do which/ 20:04
?
bacek convert to PtrObj
plobsing not yet, SFAIK. you can do it with PtrObj.init_pmc(). 20:05
atrodo cotto_work> If I can get my vision for my prototype and m0-spec close enough, I would like to make it a base for the m0-spec interpreter
cotto_work atrodo: I'm game 20:06
atrodo cotto_work> I'm drawing out the differences and my thoughts now
cotto_work excellent
plobsing bacek: destructors are set/get using the destroy_func() method
bacek plobsing, ok. Thanks.
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bubaflub plobsing: can i pick your brain about some NCI stuff? 20:17
plobsing sure 20:20
bubaflub plobsing: ok, here's what i'm thinking of doing to get bindings to GMP 20:22
1) create a definition file for ncidef2pir which maps function names to signatures and return types
2) create a PMC which wraps a StructView to represent a GMP integer type 20:23
3) write some convenience functions for that PMC wrapper class for easy initialization and stringifcation
benabik Quick Q: Does anyone know if POST is used for anything other than PIR generation? I know there was a tree-optimizer GSoC before, but don't know what trees it works on. 20:24
bubaflub 4) run the ncidef2pir script on my definition file to generate a boat load of PIR
plobsing I would support this strategy. I've done exactly that for parrot-zeromq
bubaflub so is this the bare minimum i need to call GMP functions? 20:25
plobsing bubaflub: the bare-minimum is just the raw bindings. an object layer over top is nice, but not strictly necessary. 20:26
raw bindings should probably be done in a day at the most
bubaflub plobsing: ok, yeah. i can write a script to scrape the headers and the docs to generate it
plobsing: so some basic examples - mpz_init() returns void and takes a mpz_t - a GMP integer 20:27
so the signature is vp
plobsing benabik: IIUC, POST is fairly specialized to Parrot. it is likely only suitable for generating PIR and PBC. PAST on the otherhand, is more high-level and may be amenable to other usages
bubaflub and i make an appropriate StructView so parrot knows how much space to allocate 20:28
and then pass that StructView into the generated function for mpz_init
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plobsing bubaflub: StructView is the representation, not the instance. You use it to allocate instances (which come out as PtrObj instances with destructors that manage cleanup automatically). 20:29
rohit_nsit08 hello #parrot
plobsing hi rohit_nsit08
rohit_nsit08 plobsing: hi
whiteknight: hi
dukeleto benabik: POST can be use for other things
rohit_nsit08 dukeleto: hi 20:30
dukeleto rohit_nsit08: howdy
bubaflub plobsing: ok, so when i setup the StructVIew i'm just telling Parrot how this C thing is structured, the actual instance is a PtrObj
and then i pass that PtrObj into the PIR generated function
dalek rrot/jit_prototype: ba48854 | bacek++ | / (3 files):
Handle some variable declarations
bubaflub and it loads the library and calls the function
benabik I'm digging around a bit for the bytecode generation GSoC task. Trying to figure out if tree-walking, smarter nodes or a re-write (ew) is better.
rohit_nsit08 dukeleto: perfect :-) , has student started submitting their proposals on google? 20:31
dukeleto rohit_nsit08: not sure, been busy and haven't looked yet :)
benabik: what do you *want* to work on?
benabik dukeleto: Something useful. :-D
rohit_nsit08 dukeleto: ok, i am making some final additions, and planning to submit tomorrow.
dukeleto bacek: how does POST interact with the JIT prototype that you are hacking on 20:32
rohit_nsit08 dukeleto: or shall i wait ?
bacek dukeleto, no interaction at all. jit_prototype works on PBC
benabik dukeleto: I'm planning on submitting two proposals, at least.
lucian unless you're doing tracing, i don't see what interactions there would be 20:33
plobsing bubaflub: that sounds about right 20:34
bubaflub plobsing: great, then the PMC itself just wraps this PtrObj and makes things pretty 20:35
dukeleto benabik: awesome!
bacek: just wondering 20:36
bubaflub plobsing: i can override addition and multiplication and things like that, right?
dukeleto i don't think anybody has a gsoc proposal relating to Cardinal yet
plobsing bubaflub: yes, parrot supports HLL overloading of many vtables, including math ops (those are the easiest overrides) 20:37
dukeleto it might be somewhat blocked on 6model, tho
Tene dukeleto: It's not clear to me that Cardinal is in an appropriate place for gsoc work.
I would not recommend work on cardinal before 6model lands, and it's not clear that 6model work is appropriate for gsoc
dukeleto: I'm mostly done dealing with moving to a new apartment, so I'll have time to start on cardinal 6model again this weekend.
bubaflub plobsing: great, as well as comparison functions and what not. hmmmm what else would go in convenience functions? 20:38
cotto_work seen whiteknight
clunker3 Whiteknight was last seen on #parrot 2 years, 9 days, 1 hour, 54 minutes and 44 seconds ago, saying: now the real test is to see if I can use it for my own needs
aloha whiteknight was last seen in #parrot 6 hours 27 mins ago saying "somehow it isn't being installed or handled correctly".
clunker3 whiteknight was last seen on #parrot 6 hours, 27 minutes and 22 seconds ago, saying: somehow it isn't being installed or handled correctly
plobsing bubaflub: I recomend you take a look at parrot-zeromq. It does exactly what you are proposing, but for libzmq.
cotto_work plobsing++
ban might have been better 20:39
bubaflub plobsing: great. i'm looking at that and docs/book/pir/ch07_objects.pod. seems perfect for me. 20:41
atrodo i thought moritz got the owner to stop clunker3 from joining 20:43
cotto_work atrodo: he was going to. He might not have caught him yet.
atrodo must have misunderstood
plobsing bubaflub: I would avoid PIR if I could. Winxed makes static class definitions simple and syntactically beautiful. 20:45
and you can define vtable overrides just as easily
bubaflub plobsing: hmmm, i'm definitely more familiar with PIR but i suppose as long as it compiles down to PBC that's fine
plobsing: if i'm going the winxed route should i also be using rosella for my tests?
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plobsing you should be able to use rosella from any language 20:46
PIR included
winxed included
bubaflub of course.
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bubaflub i guess my question is if rosella is easier or simplier than PIR's Test::More 20:47
plobsing I cannot speak to its suitability or ease of use, not having used it.
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bubaflub ok, i'll ask whiteknight to sell me on it 20:48
dalek nxed: r916 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst0.cpp:
fix a few hard tabs and improve indentation of generated code in stage 0
 20:55
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lucian jnthn_: ping 20:58
6model: ping 21:03
cotto_work 6model is not that advanced. It won't respond.
plobsing it isn't sentient... yet
Tene lucian: you have questions?
lucian: any chance you could be around to chat about it in... 5 hours? 21:04
lucian sure
Tene lucian: I'm at work right now, but I should be home and available by then. I don't know wha ttime zone you're in.
lucian wait, 5h is too much 21:05
brb
cotto_work: plobsing: it was my not-so-subtle ping to whoever knows about it 21:06
Tene: it's 10pm here right now. 3am is a bit too late 21:08
Tene lucian: Ah, what time do you wake up? I can go much later.
14:00 here right now.
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lucian Tene: well, i have lectures. i should have plenty of time after 11-12 21:09
Tene lucian: Here's a better idea. Can you email me and jnthn your questions, and I'll write up a response when I get home? 21:11
lucian Tene: sure. i was going to explain roughly how python's object system works, if you don't know already
Tene That would be great.
dalek rrot/jit_prototype: 2b43930 | bacek++ | compilers/opsc/src/Ops/JIT.pm:
More register/constants handling.
 21:12
rrot/jit_prototype: ac86bda | bacek++ | compilers/opsc/src/Ops/JIT.pm:
Vivify declared variables.
rrot/jit_prototype: 13ac7bc | bacek++ | t/jit/jitted.ops:
Update test ops.
21:14 ligne left
Tene I've never had notable success waking up with enough time before work to do anything. 21:15
lucian i see. same here
btw, my proposal for who's interested gist.github.com/891481
Tene I go to sleep around 08:00 UTC 21:16
cotto_work lucian: you might as well loop in parrot-dev
I'm interested in that discussion and I'm sure I'm not alone.
lucian cotto_work: i see. good idae
benabik Is there a machine readable table of opcode name to number? 21:17
Tene lucian: email EVERYONE 21:18
lucian Tene: yep
Tene I'm sure we coudl find a spambot network somewhere to distribute your GSoC proposal to the world. :)
dukeleto benabik: yes. trying to remember where it lives
benabik: it gets autogenerated somewhere
Tene Yes, I'll read that when I get home.
afk $job 21:19
benabik dukeleto: The only thing I can see is include/parrot/oplib/ops.h 21:20
plobsing benabik: every oplib has an op_info_t array 21:21
likewise every bytecode segment (for the mapping)
if you wanted something dynamic
there's a hash of those names somewhere too 21:23
I was considering converting those to a trie at some point
dukeleto benabik: src/ops/core_ops.c and friends 21:26
benabik: starting at line 78
benabik dukeleto: Alrighty then. Thanks. 21:27
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bubaflub hola dukeleto 21:37
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soh_cah_toa hey guys. there has been some debate as to whether the gsoc parrot debugger project should be kept in a separate repo or in a branch off parrot/master. what do you think? 21:44
plobsing split out if possible. I'm in the thin-core camp. 21:45
soh_cah_toa i think a branch makes the most sense. isn't that the prupose of a branch/merge after all? plus, the debugger is packaged as part of parrot and a separate repo would be hard
*purpose
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lucian soh_cah_toa: i think it might be nice if there was an instrumentation api for parrot, and a debugger written as an application that uses it 21:54
soh_cah_toa lucian: i plan on doing that. it's in my proposal
lucian right. then perhaps the instrumentation api would be in parrot, and the debugger separate 21:55
i don't know if it's a good idea, or whether parrot wants to ship a debugger
soh_cah_toa oh wait, i see what you mean now 21:56
wouldn't is make more sense to include instrumentation in the debugger instead of an api since the only practical use for it would be in a debugger?
it*
lucian soh_cah_toa: i don't know. perhaps other things can be done with it 21:57
soh_cah_toa lucian: sure. the finished product will definitely use code from parrot-instrument though. we'll see what else we can do w/ it once i play around w/ parrot-instrument a little more 21:58
lucian soh_cah_toa: if i were you i'd branch/fork
separate it later if possible, or not
soh_cah_toa lucian: i agree. everyone else seems to agree as well. whiteknight was the only who felt differently 21:59
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soh_cah_toa lucian: when would you recommend working in the documentation into my project? i had it at the end but dukeleto made a good point that it might not get done then. he recommended doing it during design. what do you think? 22:02
lucian soh_cah_toa: gist.github.com/891481
i have mine in bits 22:03
soh_cah_toa yeah 22:05
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soh_cah_toa lucian: have you done gsoc before? 22:12
lucian yeah
soh_cah_toa lucian: w/ the parrot foundation or another organization?
lucian with Sugar Labs
22:12 eternaleye joined
soh_cah_toa lucian: never heard of them. what project was it for? 22:13
lucian Sugar :)
ever heard of OLPC?
soh_cah_toa: sugarlabs.org
soh_cah_toa yeah - one laptop per child
lucian Sugar is the UI for it 22:14
soh_cah_toa yeah i'm looking at it now. it's pretty neat 22:15
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dukeleto ~~ 22:29
lucian waves at dukeleto 22:31
22:57 soh_cah_toa left 23:01 whiteknight joined
whiteknight good afternoon, #parrot 23:04
23:05 hercynium left, donaldh left 23:06 bubaflub joined
dukeleto waves back 23:07
bubaflub ~~ 23:10
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