Parrot 3.4.0 released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today
Set by moderator on 17 May 2011.
00:06 kid51 joined
kid51 msg benabik Please subscribe at lists.parrot.org/mailman/listinfo/parrot-dev so we don't have to pre-approve your posts 00:08
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
benabik ~~
kid51: I get the e-mails, so I thought I was subscribed.
kid51: I'll doublecheck the addresses though.
kid51: Yeah, I just sent it from my main address instead of my mailing list address. Sorry. 00:09
NotFound Glad to see winxed planned to be used in bubaflub GSoC project. 00:19
bubaflub NotFound: glad you're making it - it'll make OO convience classes *much* easier
kid51 Interesting to see how a change in one .pmc causes nearly a complete rebuild during 'make'. 00:20
Tene I'm just finishing up my new home server; anyone have any use for a hosted VM? 00:21
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bacek_at_work ~~ 00:24
sorear what kind of system?
Tene sorear: hardware? core 2 duo, 4GB ram 00:29
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kid51 Tene: which OS? 00:34
Tene base OS is Fedora, but you could run whatever you wanted on a VM, if you wanted to maintain it yourself.
If you just want a shell, that would be fine too.
kid51 I have Linode, so I'm accustomed to running a Linux VM -- though all I had to do was push a button to install it. 00:35
So maybe it's time for me to try another VM for the purpose of running tests
Tene I've got more server than I really need, so I'm glad to let others use it.
kid51 I'm trying to figure out what role I can play other than just running make test on my own machines. 00:36
Tene kid51: I haven't really been following it, but have you seen the discussions about asking for volunteers to figure out how to use build farms for testing? 00:37
kid51 seen it, but like you, have not been following it too closely
aloha Sorry, I haven't seen it, but like you, have not been following it too closely.
Tene heh 00:38
kid51 aloha--
aloha kid51: Pbbbbtt!
kid51 Tene, let me compose my thoughts to dukeleto and pmichaud about what they could use. Then I'll be back in touch. Thanks. 00:39
Tene kid51: sure.
It's on my home internet connection, so sometimes unreliable.
kid51 But I would ssh in, correct?
Tene Unless you wanted to connect some other way, yeah. 00:41
kid51 k 00:43
dalek nxed: r1017 | NotFound++ | trunk/examples/Xlib.winxed:
update one remaining NCI 't' to current usages
kid51 benabik: Recommend logging 'make' output to file and attaching that file to post to parrot-dev, rather than including it in body.
benabik (and other GSOCers): Do you know about tools/dev/nopaste.pl? 00:45
benabik kid51: Alrighty, will try to remember that. I'm used to git list where attachements are verboten.
kid51: And I've heard of nopaste
dukeleto those git devs have fits when you attach something 00:46
like you said their mothers used CVS or something
kid51 but their mothers *did* use CVS
nopaste is very good for getting a quick first response on build or test failures 00:47
cotto ~~
kid51 I will frequently type:
prove -v t/some/failing/test.t 2>&1 | perl tools/dev/nopaste.pl -n kid51 -t "t/some/failing/test.t: new failure" 00:48
(which I suppose I should boil down farther into a shell function) 00:49
cotto kid51, points for laziness
kid51 But I can't do that right now because all tests are passing :-) 00:50
cotto btw, I fixed nopaste.pl so it uses your system username if you don't provide one. 00:51
dukeleto kid51: i could break some tests if you want... 00:53
kid51 make test PASS @ HEAD: darwin/ppc; linux/i386 various combinations 01:01
benabik GAH. I went to fix the Makefile and it worked. :-( 01:04
(Before I fixed it.
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dalek rrot: 8f70521 | jkeenan++ | t/tools/dev/headerizer/01_functions.t:
Update test to reflect change is way asserts are capture.
 01:17
TT #2119 closed by jkeenan++: t/tools/dev/headerizer/01_functions.t failure 01:24
TT #2119: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/2119
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dukeleto bubaflub: wazzup 01:50
bubaflub hey dukeleto 01:57
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dukeleto bubaflub: are you on your coding horse yet? 02:01
bubaflub dukeleto: sure am
bacek_at_work benabik, ping 02:10
cotto dukeleto, ping 02:38
kid51 msg cotto If possible, please review trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/540 02:40
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
kid51 msg whiteknight If possible, please review trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/540
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
benabik bacek_at_work: pong 02:44
cotto aloha, going to yapc::na? 02:53
aloha cotto: going to yapc::na is cotto or dukeleto or atrodo or atrodo or Util or kid51
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cotto is booking a room for yapc::na 03:02
benabik I should really figure out if I can afford YAPC::NA
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cotto benabik, do it now. There are very few hotel rooms left. 03:09
soh_cah_toa aww...really? i gotta make my reservations soon then 03:10
cotto soh_cah_toa, yes
benabik cotto: IIRC, there was talk of doing a parroty thing the day after? 03:11
cotto benabik, more than talk 03:12
benabik, www.yapc2011.us/yn2011/wiki?node=Pa...0Hackathon
soh_cah_toa cotto: do you think you could take a look at the pdb branch? when calling Parrot_runcore_pdb_init(), make complains about an undefined reference. i have no idea why, it's prototype is in include/parrot/runcore_api.h 03:13
benabik cotto: Date not mentioned on that, but is 30th? 03:14
cotto benabik, Tuesday evening and all Thursday
soh_cah_toa, I suppose I should do that, being your mentor and all. ;) 03:15
soh_cah_toa, you have a .o checked in
soh_cah_toa cotto: what do you mean? 03:16
cotto github.com/soh-cah-toa/parrot/comm...c0e1c54f1d 03:17
benabik cotto soh_cah_toa: Website already refusing to give me a room. :-(
cotto benabik, I had to call
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cotto people are getting different responses depending on how they try to book rooms. The 848 number seems to be best. 03:18
benabik cotto: Bleh, telephones.
cotto I know, right.
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benabik cotto: Will put that on TODO for tomorrow. Book room now and worry about transportation later. 03:20
cotto soh_cah_toa, what's the makefile target I should be using.
benabik, my approach too
soh_cah_toa cotto: make pdb
benabik cotto: Might drive down, as horrible as that seems. But I can stop at my folks on the way and I have a friend who might come and splitting car is cheaper than a plane. 03:21
cotto soh_cah_toa, I don't see any such target. Did you add it to the makefile template?
benabik, I wish I could drive. Flying is expensive. 03:22
soh_cah_toa agh...i knew that would happen. even though i modified it, git didn't report it as changed
benabik cotto: Not that much cheaper since I'd have to rent a car to do it. Only have one and my wife would like to get to work that week.
soh_cah_toa i think maybe b/c vim keeps telling me i'm modifying a read-only file. i checked the permissions though and they're -rw-rw-r--
cotto soh_cah_toa, the makefile is generated. You probably want config/gen/makefiles/root.in . 03:23
soh_cah_toa, that's on purpose because it's generated.
soh_cah_toa cotto: i'll do that and re-commit
cotto awesome 03:24
Andy Does anyone object to having the timer on the test harness?
cotto Andy, I'd love to have one. 03:25
don't we already?
Andy yay
No.
there you go
benabik Andy: Timer?
Andy Let's see if anyone gets upset.
dalek rrot: 41bfa13 | petdance++ | t/harness:
turn on the test harness timer
soh_cah_toa cotto: i just realized...i never used .in files before. do i use make?
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cotto go figure 03:26
soh_cah_toa it said nothing needs to be done
cotto soh_cah_toa, the Makefile is generated by Configure.pl
soh_cah_toa oh wait, i edit that file instead?
cotto you need to edit root.in and re-run Configure.pl
soh_cah_toa now i see
cotto: ok, i think i got 03:30
cotto soh_cah_toa, trying now 03:31
soh_cah_toa cotto: ok 03:32
cotto are you planning on taking over the current debugger or making a new one? 03:33
soh_cah_toa cotto: making a new one 03:34
cotto: i think testing would be easier that way
cotto soh_cah_toa, ok. In that case, you should probably use a different variable in the makefile. PDB is already used for the current debugger. 03:35
soh_cah_toa cotto: so there will be two debuggers? 03:36
cotto soh_cah_toa, isn't that the plan?
soh_cah_toa cotto: i just assumed that mine would be the main one. it's not up to me but why leave the broken one around 03:37
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cotto soh_cah_toa, no objections to nuking it. Just make sure to be thorough. 03:38
soh_cah_toa cotto: well, that's why i'm trying to do a few things early before coding officially starts 03:39
cotto: also, we can change the name of that target later once i've given some more thought about the name 03:41
cotto sure
soh_cah_toa cotto: i thinking maybe *pd, something parrot debugger. we'll see 03:42
benabik soh_cah_toa: Awesome parrot debugger 03:43
sorear call it parrotbug
just to confuse people who have used perlbug
soh_cah_toa sorear: you saying my code is just one big bug? ;) 03:44
cotto soh_cah_toa, and we can confuse it with the existing tool called parrotbug
sorear soh_cah_toa: it's a portmanteau of "parrot" and "debug". Duh.
soh_cah_toa sorear: lol i know :)
cotto: anyway, do you see what i was talking about w/ make? it makes no sense 03:46
cotto soh_cah_toa, it's perfectly sensible. You just have to become appropriately insane. 03:47
soh_cah_toa cotto: i didn't realize i could attain a higher level of insanity 03:48
sorear After $CHRISTMAS, do you forsee Perl 6 users using your Parrot debugging program?
Or do you see a "perl6db" which allows source-level, intelligent debugging (possibly using a libraryized Parrot-Debugger underneath)? 03:49
s/<?after 'program?'>/ (directly)/
soh_cah_toa sorear: of course
sorear could call it parrot-pdp 03:50
parrot debugging program
pir debugging program
pmichaud debugging program...no wait
soh_cah_toa sorear: ha
benabik parrot debugging parrot? 03:51
cotto pdp? I'm not sure how I feel about that.
benabik cotto: I'll be a while before our pdp hits version 11.
soh_cah_toa ha 03:52
reminds me too much of presidential decision directive. that's what i think of at least
i don't know why...:/
it rhymes
pir debugging program wouldn't be appropriate b/c i'm hoping for it to work w/ all parrot hll's 03:53
sorear: i'm glad you asked about rakudo. after gsoc, i should definitely keep some perl6-features in mind 03:55
cotto: i just realized i made a mistake in my last commit. now it should replicate the error 04:00
cotto soh_cah_toa, can you delete frontend/pdb/main.o ? 04:05
soh_cah_toa cotto: why do i wanna do that? 04:06
cotto soh_cah_toa, it's an artifact of the build. It shouldn't be in version control. 04:07
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soh_cah_toa cotto: ok 04:08
cotto: still complaining 04:11
cotto: there...committed. you can see what i did 04:13
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cotto soh_cah_toa, Parrot_runcore_x_init functions should only be called in Parrot_runcore_init 04:14
soh_cah_toa cotto: i see... 04:15
cotto you want Parrot_api_set_runcore
soh_cah_toa ugh...how do you know all these functions? this api is huge 04:17
are there any docs that are like a reference for the parrot api? 04:19
cotto I don't. I just looked at frontend/parrot/main.c 04:20
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cotto src/*/api.c should have inline POD 04:20
soh_cah_toa ok good 04:21
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soh_cah_toa cotto: agh...i cannot get this makefile to cooperate! could you look at my last commit? 04:39
cotto sure 04:46
soh_cah_toa, are you looking at frontend/parrot/main.c for example code? 04:48
soh_cah_toa cotto: i am now :) 04:49
cotto: it's the makefile though that's causing problems 04:50
cotto how so? 04:51
soh_cah_toa 'make pdb' gives 'Error 1'
cotto lots of things cause errors 04:52
I'd recommend copying the Makefile rule for $(PARROT) as a basis for $(PDB) 04:53
soh_cah_toa cotto: alright, i'll give it a shot. btw, what's parrot_config.o for? it doesn't sound like something i'd need but parrot_debugger did use it 04:55
cotto it's a fakecutable that contains config_lib.pir 04:57
config_lib.pir contains some configuration information gathered during configure-time and compile-time 04:58
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sorear I disrecommend the name pdb 05:04
it will confuse Windows people and BioPerl peoplr 05:05
soh_cah_toa sorear: i know. also w/ the perl 5 debugger. i'm just using for now until i come up w/ a new name 05:09
cotto You can add an extra random letter. 05:10
pxdb
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soh_cah_toa cotto: well, i have progress but it's still refusing to cooperate 05:14
cotto looking better. Let's see what happens. 05:17
soh_cah_toa, take a look at the definition of Parrot_api_set_runcore. It takes a few more arguments than you're giving it. 05:19
soh_cah_toa cotto: okay, i'll look. make is complaining about the headers not existing though 05:20
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soh_cah_toa cotto: well, i corrected Parrot_api_set_runcore() but make is still preventing me from going to bed 05:26
cotto soh_cah_toa, care to push? 05:27
also, don't let it do that. You'll think more clearly after sleeping. If it's getting late, go to sleep.
soh_cah_toa done 05:28
i'm so close though
i hope 05:29
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soh_cah_toa cotto: any idea? 05:36
cotto soh_cah_toa, you should be generating main.o as one step and then linking it into pdb$(EXE) in a separate step 05:37
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soh_cah_toa cotto: you told me to delete that 05:37
cotto I said to delete the object file from vcs. Here I'm talking about how to deal with them in the makefile. 05:39
main.o should be created as part of the build, just not checked in to git
soh_cah_toa alright, let me try 05:40
cotto $(PARROT) is a good example of what to do 05:41
note that it links frontend/parrot/main$(O)
soh_cah_toa i did copy from there. i tried adding some things from the old $PDB though 05:43
cotto make sure you understand what you're doing
soh_cah_toa yeah, i'm kinda winging it 05:44
cotto I'm glad to answer questions
soh_cah_toa i've never faced the problem before of trying to build a hello world program from a 10,000 lines makefile 05:45
cotto the infrastructure can be overwhelming
you just have to learn which few lines you care about and which to ignore 05:46
soh_cah_toa well normally something like parrot_config.o i would think that has nothing to do w/ debugging and would ignore right off the bat but apparently i need it 05:47
and what's a blib? binary library? 05:50
cotto yup, as opposed to Perl library
soh_cah_toa ok 05:52
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soh_cah_toa cotto: could you take a look at my newest mess? 06:00
cotto sure 06:03
btw, I think you're including more headers than you need to. 06:04
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soh_cah_toa oh yeah. 06:06
actually, just msg me what you think the problem is. you're right, 2:00am is not time for writing code. i'll come back to it tomorrow. thanks for the help 06:12
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cotto msg soh_cah_toa The default rule will take care of all the includes etc needed to build an object file. It's not necessary to explicitly list the command to compile it for frontend/pdb/main$(O) 06:14
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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cotto msg soh_cah_toa Also, Makefile comments need to have a '#' as the first character. Part of the problem was that make was running a commented-out rule. 06:15
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
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dalek rdinal: 41b18e1 | (Hongwe Qiu)++ | / (2 files):
t/range/to_s.t now passes.

Add another multi method for initialization of Range to handle three parameters, fix a bug in Range#to_s, and since Symbols are not yet implemented, use key=value pair instead of Symbol in t/range/to_s.t, so that t/range/to_s.t now passes.		 06:54
rdinal: 2a0211b | (Hongwe Qiu)++ | t/range/to_s.t:
[t/range/to_s.t] forgot to bump "plan 1;" to "plan 2;"
rdinal: 3aa96b2 | (Hongwe Qiu)++ | src/classes/ (2 files):
Range#!from_exclusive has gone, and Range#!to_exclusive is now simply Range#!exclusive.

Ruby don't have !from_exclusive. And if cardinal is supposed to have !from_exclusive, then I don't know what Range.new(from, to, from_exclusive=true, to_exclusive=true).to_s is supposed to output.
rdinal: 73d3bbf | (Hongwe Qiu)++ | src/classes/Range.pir:
pod fixes and some other minor changes for src/classes/Range.pir.
rdinal: fa2ff00 | tadzik++ | / (3 files):
Merge pull request #11 from qiuhw/master

Some work done for CardinalRange
cotto dukeleto, ping 07:22
dalek rrot/m0-prototype: a87ddd8 | cotto++ | src/m0/m0_interp.pl:
implement the math and boolean ops
 07:27
rrot/m0-prototype: 5214d57 | cotto++ | src/m0/m0_interp.pl:
implement the last of the easy M0 ops
rrot/m0-spec: f7aaf2e | cotto++ | docs/pdds/draft/pdd32_m0.pod:
sub_[in] should calculate a difference, not zero
rrot/m0-prototype: 397f57d | cotto++ | src/m0/m0_interp.pl:
fix set_var op
 07:34
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dalek rrot/m0-prototype: bc32af0 | cotto++ | / (2 files):
add m0_tests makefile target to run any know-passing M0 tests

also add a simple test to make sure that hello.m0b keeps working		 07:48
cotto msg dukeleto Is there a nice way to directly poke into memory from Perl?
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
cotto sleeps
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dalek rrot: eb392fc | jkeenan++ | t/harness:
Revert 41bfa130f. 'timer' should not be on by default. This is kind of
 12:13
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kid51 builds Perl 5.14.0 from source 15:00
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kid51 Damn, Perl 5.14 is so big that the install fills up my disk! 15:16
tadzik whoa 15:18
kid51 Not even Rakudo has done that ;-) 15:19
tadzik so Rakudo is less resource-heavy than Perl 5.14? :P 15:21
kid51 No, I'm talking about the size of files in the distro, built by make, and needing to be installed. 15:22
Of course, the size of Parrot's .git is also nothing to sneeze at. 15:24
It's the largest thing I have under my homedir
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kid51 takes drastic action: deleting 3 older versions of Perl 5 15:33
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cotto ~ 16:21
dukeleto ~~ 16:26
cotto: what memory poking do you want to do? 16:27
cotto dukeleto, same as can be done with pointers in C
dukeleto cotto: there are probably some Devel:: modules to do what you want. Do you have a specific use case? 16:28
cotto dukeleto, implementing copy_mem and copy_byte in M0
Tie::Array::Pointer looks promising 16:29
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cotto that also seems to provide a wrapper around malloc, though not free 16:30
dukeleto, what do you think about adding labels to M0? gotos get pretty unwieldy without them. 16:31
(and with them, but that's a separate issue) ;) 16:32
dukeleto cotto: hmmm. what are our options? 16:33
cotto dukeleto, I'm not sure of how little magic it could require. 16:35
dukeleto, I think the only way to do it would be to have the assembler maintain a symbol table and to either store those values in the variables segment or allow them to be used directly by set_var + a little magic 16:36
dukeleto cotto: i just found Devel::Pointer, which may be useful
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dukeleto cotto: this is probably something that would be good to get feedback from chromatic++ and allison++ 16:38
cotto pointers or labels? 16:39
dukeleto cotto: labels
cotto: here is a thought. Should we have a "constant variable table" and a "dynamic variable table" for each chunk? 16:40
cotto: the offsets of goto's could be in the static part, mutable variables would be in the dynamic part
cotto: this could be batshit crazy, but I figure I should tell you and then you can tell me why it wouldn't work
cotto dukeleto, I'm not opposed to the idea. It does solve the problem of making sure that data that's supposed to stay constant actaully does
dukeleto, we'd need a new op to access the constants, right? 16:41
dukeleto cotto: it also makes it so that there are two "namespaces", so we could have up to 65K items in each kind of variable table, instead of both kinds getting jammed into one namespace 16:42
cotto: not necessarily. perhaps we can cheat somehow
cotto dukeleto, i.e. first half is constant, second half is not?
dukeleto, that means that the interp would have to act differently for the two halves 16:43
dukeleto cotto: i think we need to write down what the possibilities are and what the consequences of each are
NotFound Will not be easier to use relative jumps? 16:44
cotto dukeleto, that's an immanently sensible suggestion
dukeleto NotFound: please expound on "using relative jumps" 16:45
NotFound dukeleto: goto currentpos + distance to the label
dukeleto NotFound: distance is measured in ... ?
NotFound dukeleto: in opcodes, or whatever you call it in m0. 16:46
dukeleto NotFound: ok. Since we have one opcode per line, that could be nice
cotto and opcodes are a fixed length 16:47
dalek rrot: 880eb3f | petdance++ | src/gc/string_gc.c:
consting vars, and fixed a SHIM argument
 16:54
rrot: 775dc88 | petdance++ | t/harness:
HARNESS_TIMER now turns on the time stamps
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dukeleto bubaflub: mornin' 17:16
bubaflub morning dukeleto
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davidfetter dukeleto, ping 18:55
dukeleto, got your concerns addressed, and then some 18:58
dalek nxed: r1018 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
look for class in namespaces used at namespace level
 19:04
dukeleto dalek: oh yeah?
dalek nxed: r1019 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
check that the control var is defined in for in
 19:14
davidfetter dukeleto, how do i rebuild pl/parrot with debugging info turned on? 19:21
dukeleto davidfetter: hmmm. there should be a DEBUG defined at the top of plparrot.c 19:26
davidfetter: make it truthy
davidfetter dukeleto, thanks! :)
dukeleto, there's a DEBUG_MODE 19:27
it was 0. should i make it something other than 1?
davidfetter tias's
dalek p: ed37a36 | jonathan++ | src/ (7 files):
Apply patch from Richard Hainsworth to add Parrot vtable delegation.
 19:28
p: 606ef7c | jonathan++ | src/stage0/ (6 files):
Update bootstrap.
p: e6326c0 | jonathan++ | src/core/NQPCapture.pm:
Use parrot_vtable_handler trait in NQPCapture for the performance win.
p: 88e0df7 | jonathan++ | src/pmc/sixmodelobject.pmc:
Enable Parrot vtable delegation for invoke.
nxed: r1020 | NotFound++ | trunk/winxedst1.winxed:
parse modifiers of functions and its parameters in the parsing context when the
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dalek rrot: 6bfc7aa | petdance++ | config/gen/makefiles/root.in:
Added src/call/*.c to the splint targets
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