Parrot 3.5.0 "Menelaus" released | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today | #parrotsketch meeting Tuesday 1930 UTC | Code freeze in effect except for test failure fixes
Set by moderator on 14 July 2011.
00:03 zloyrusskiy left
kid51 Do we have release managers yet for Aug 16, 2011 - 3.7 or Nov 15, 2011 - 3.10 ? 00:03
(Those entries are still missing from release_manager_guide.pod.) 00:04
jay Ok... very cool. Thanks again, Coke++, invaluable. soh_cah_toa, it works with the &, and definitely does not work without it: it compiles, but then barfs: "Could not find sub &infix:<+>" 00:07
soh_cah_toa jay: TimToady says "I think the & is optional only to allow declaration of &*foo, which would be a dynamic name" 00:10
jay Well, it's the first time I've seen it, so it may only be optional for operator cases like this... obviously not needed for regular runtime functions. But I'm fine with that! 00:12
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kid51 Felipe ping 00:13
cotto ~~
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Felipe kid51: pong 00:27
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jay Coke++ I now have a more general additive operator, thanks to you! gist.github.com/1085849 00:42
dalek R: 7c20a2b | (Jay Emerson)++ | / (10 files):
Generalizing the + operator, Coke++
soh_cah_toa ah, cool. didn't know you could do that in R. it's kinda like p6's hyper operators 00:44
jay R has some very slick stuff... admittedly tuned for efficient data analysis,. 00:45
It can also do things like c(1,2,3,4) + c(1,2) by recycling the second argument twice... a nice use for NotFound's Coroutines, perhaps (not sure). 00:50
soh_cah_toa what do you mean by "recycle"? 00:51
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dalek rrot: 1e74105 | jkeenan++ | / (3 files):
Add a small program to help release manager update some version numbers.
 01:08
rrot: 00ee3f9 | jkeenan++ | CREDITS:
Credit Felipe Pena.
 01:11
jay Sorry, distracted, soh_cah_toa. 01:18
I mean c(1,2,3,4) + c(1,2) = c(1,2,3,4) + c(1,2,1,2)
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cotto kid51++ for release managerial laziness 01:50
not lazy enough though 01:52
Coke jay: glad to help.
jay: the & is a perl-ism.
cotto If that's *only* for the release process, it can update a bunch of other files too.
Coke it's a sigil indicating "This names a function"
$scalar, @array, %hash, &function 01:53
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jay Thanks, Coke. I'm back. That makes sense! 02:30
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bubaflub ~ 02:47
jay Hello bubaflub. More progress today I see 02:49
bubaflub jay: nice. i see you're getting this grammar stuff done as well. good work. 02:50
jay Slowly, yes. I noticed some thunk progress... the installation is probably tricky, integrating it properly? 02:51
bubaflub jay: the question is where i should copy the shared object file so that we can do load_lib properly. everything else works swimmingly. i imagine it's just going to go the same place my .pbc (compiled Parrot code) goes. 02:52
jay will some 'make install' (either yours or parrot's if it is distributed with parrot) put it into /usr/lib or something sensible, though? Or maybe that isn't necessary. Not sure. 02:53
bubaflub jay: yes. Parrot comes with a library called distutils (which i believe is stolen/inspired from Python) which handles this kind of stuff. plumage is the package management stuff and they work hand in hand. 02:54
jay: my setup.winxed basically has a big hash of information that distutil uses to build my library - what files to build and what should be installed
jay: i have a few custom functions in setup.winxed to handle my library specific stuff - generate the NCI thunks and compile a C file to check which version of GMP we have. 02:55
jay cool. It will be a little while befor I get back to that.
bubaflub jay: indeed. but it should *just work*
jay Magic! Actually saw the Harry Potter movie today, actually. 02:56
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bubaflub jay: nice, my wife and i will catch an afternoon showing tomorrow. what did you think about it? 02:58
jay Very good. Better than the last one. We saw the 2D version. My wife said that one of the reviews was down on the 3D version -- dark and not that impressive. 02:59
bubaflub jay: yeah, both my wife and i have glasses and 3D doesn't always work. 03:00
jay: plus, i already see in 3D all the time. no reason to need it for a movie.
jay bubaflub: lol. Me too. Glasses. 03:01
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dalek rrot-gmp: 61cc3e6 | bubaflub++ | / (2 files):
update docs a bit
 03:14
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jay Quickie: NQP, dividing two integers, I want the float result, not the integer division. How do I typecast an int up to a float? 03:36
pir::set__dp($arg) ??? googled it, seems overly complicated and may not be right.
Ah well, I'll get it tomorrow. Night, all 03:55
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dalek R: 8be71ad | (Jay Emerson)++ | / (7 files):
Vectorized the +*-/ (though integer / isn't right)
 03:56
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dalek kudo/nom: e707e6e | moritz++ | src/Perl6/SymbolTable.pm:
fix typo in comment
 06:20
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Ademan is the bytecode format documented somewhere? I saw documentation for the file format, and a list of opcodes but nothing about the bytecode 06:24
moritz Ademan: have you seen docs/pdds/draft/pdd13_bytecode.pod ? 06:26
dalek rrot: c331dd5 | cotto++ | docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod:
make release manager instructions less ambiguous (hopefully)
 06:28
Ademan moritz: is that in the source tree? I've only looked at the website thus far, I'll check that out though, thanks. 06:29
cotto Ademan, docs.parrot.org/parrot/latest/html/...e.pod.html 06:36
also in the file that moritz++ mentioned
The web page is generated from that file. 06:37
The file is in drafts because there are some inconsistencies between it and the current implementation, but it's generally true. You can use pbc_dump -d to explore .pbc files directly. 06:38
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whiteknight good morning, #parrot 11:43
zloyrusskiy hi 11:47
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dalek R: fd08cfe | (Jay Emerson)++ | README (2 files):
soh_cah_toa++ README bugs
 12:07
L: 2050360 | (Jay Emerson)++ | README (2 files):
soh_cah_toa++ README bugs
 12:09
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jay Good morning, parroters 12:23
whiteknight hello jay
jay morning whiteknight! 12:24
whiteknight how are you doing today, jay?
jay I'm trying to divide integers and get the float result. Not bad for 8 AM, huh?
whiteknight you probably want to cast to float before you do the division 12:25
integer division is...integery 12:26
moritz nqp-rx: say(pir::div__NNN(5, 2))
nqp: say(pir::div__NNN(5, 2))
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«2.5␤»
jay moritz++: nice!
I'll try both, though... what is the simplest NQP typecast?
moritz nqp automatically typecasts when it expects an N register 12:27
which is what happens here
tadzik jay: you can just $N1 = $I1
if you're piring
jay NQP-ing
moritz so the two are the same
tadzik oh, then what moritz++ said
jay Bingo! The morning is definitely looking up... moritz++. 12:29
dalek R: b256796 | (Jay Emerson)++ | src/nqr/Operators.pm:
moritz++ vectorized division working
kid51 moritz: Parrot is having supported release 3.6 on Tuesday. Do you know if Rakudo is building okay on Parrot HEAD? 12:30
moritz kid51: it was last I tried, but I'll try again now
whiteknight blah, still getting the segfault in Rosella.
kid51 moritz: Thank you very much.
dalek kudo/nom: fa9c35c | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
Add prefix:<abs>(Real), redefine Real.abs to do calculation directly instead of using .Bridge.
 12:31
kudo/nom: d7d46e3 | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
Turn on abs.t.
jay moritz, let me revisit something above: nqp automatically typecasts when it expects an N register 12:34
moritz jay: correct 12:35
jay ? $ans[$i] = $a[$i] / $b[$i]; ans is ResizableFloatArray, a and b are ResizableIntegerArray, I'm not getting the float result?
(sorry := )
moritz jay: it doesn't do static analysis on types of your arrays 12:36
jay ah ok. Thanks!
moritz jay: if you use /, it is just compiled to the 'div__PPP' opcode, I think
so it promotes the arguments to PMCs 12:37
and then the result is a PMC too
and that is then converted to a float
jay ah, that's what I didn't get.
moritz not very efficient :-)
jay So I should go change some of my + - * operations to improve performance, too. 12:38
moritz it is sometimes instructive to run nqp with the --target=PIR option, and look at the output
right
jay Things like this aren't critical when they happen once... but in a long loop will add up. 12:39
moritz aye 12:40
jay All int multiplication: @ans[$i] := pir::mul__III($a[$i], $b[$i]); ?
moritz right 12:42
jay And one more question: someone said @ans and $ans are identical in NQP (and note I use each above, for some unknown reason having to do with sleep). Is there some reason I should do one or the other?
whiteknight @ is typically used to mean array, in perl-land 12:43
so it's a visual cue that what you are doing is array-ish
other than that, NQP doesn't do any type-checking to prove that what you say about it is correct 12:44
jay Ok. No performance surprises under the hood, then.
whiteknight there might be some initialization logic special for @, but I can't remember
moritz nqp: my @a; @a[0] := 1; say(@a) 12:48
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz nqp: my $a; $a[0] := 1; say($a) 12:49
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«set_pmc_keyed() not implemented in class 'Undef'␤current instr.: '_block1000' pc 0 ((file unknown):1)␤»
moritz don't know if that's the same in nqp-rx
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moritz nqprx: say(1) 12:49
p6eval nqprx: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz nqprx: my $a; $a[0] := 1; say($a) 12:50
p6eval nqprx: OUTPUT«set_pmc_keyed() not implemented in class 'Undef'␤current instr.: '_block11' pc 0 (EVAL_1:4)␤»
moritz nqprx: my @a; @a[0] := 1; say(@a)
p6eval nqprx: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz yep, same difference
jay I don't know if it matters, but I'm creating all Resizable*Array explicitly.
Anyway, I think I've got it... onwards, many thanks. 12:51
dalek R: d8efe09 | (Jay Emerson)++ | src/nqr/Operators.pm:
mortiz++ proper operators with efficient typecasting
 12:55
moritz rakudo builds and tests fine for me on latest parrot 13:06
(both 'master' and 'nom' branch of rakudo)
(on linux amd64) 13:07
jay moritz: I'll hit the same issue with comparison operators, I assume... will they be iseq__III, iseq_INN, and so on? Does I versus i matter for some reason? squaak had iPP for example, not IPP. 13:08
kid51 Thanks. Is there any build farm that does that automatically? (apart from tt.taptinder.org/buildstatus/rakudo/master) 13:09
moritz jay: I'm not sure about the uppercase/lowercase thing, pmichaud_++ could tell you 13:10
jay: andn yes, same thing for the comparison ops
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jay Well, at least the compiler hasn't complained about I yet 13:10
Thanks
whiteknight 2940c8015fc03decb2070b396f2c6a358e8f9943 is the first commit I've found before the sprintf segfaults 13:21
I've been going backwards by 5-10 commits each time, and this is the first one that hasn't exhibited that behavior or worse 13:22
JimmyZ good evening, #parrot 13:35
whiteknight fd7880aa6706fca4fd2d is good too 13:36
dalek R: b6fb6c5 | (Jay Emerson)++ | src/nqr/ (2 files):
Added the : operator; 1:5 -->> (1,2,3,4,5)
 13:39
whiteknight 179425591a68315348f7 definitely seems to be the first commit where the segfaults happen 13:57
I don't quite know how either of those commits could be causing this behavior though 13:58
...nevermind, I found it 14:01
after changing the rules for looking up builtins, we're getting into an infinite loop 14:02
dalek R: f0bb2b7 | (Jay Emerson)++ | src/nqr/ (2 files):
R-style warning() messages
 14:09
jay As I look at the squaak grammar, I see funky special characters around the relational operators: I'll try copying here: 14:21
token infix:sym�<� { <sym> <O('%relational, :pirop<islt iPP>')> }
Yes, they show. I assume I just copy-and-paste and I'll be fine writing my own sub with the same name? 14:22
moritz yes 14:23
JimmyZ does NQR use new NQP or NQP-rx ?
moritz the <O()> is a call to the operator precedence parser
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jay Right. It's the funky << >> I was asking about. 14:25
I'm building on squaak, so I'm writing grammar in whatever squaak's Grammar.pm is, and writing runtimes that are whatever squaak's Runtime.pm would be using. 14:27
I think the answer may be NQR-rx
But I obviously have no idea. !_)
dalek sella: 11e8e34 | Whiteknight++ | src/ (5 files):
Fix build and all tests following winxed compiler updates. The differences in the way builtins are looked up means they now get conflicted if we have a symbol named 'sprintf' anywhere searchable. Be explicit wherever we want to use the builtin
 14:31
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jay ping moritz 14:44
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bubaflub ~ 15:06
jay moritz: undo ping, I'm all set. Very cool stuff... 15:07
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Patterner 1 15:21
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kid51 Do we have release managers yet for Aug 16, 2011 - 3.7 or Nov 15, 2011 - 3.10 ? 15:49
(Those entries are still missing from release_manager_guide.pod.)
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jay moritz++ once again, thank you... R-style vectorized relational operator: 16:09
> print( c(1,2,3) != 2 )
1 0 1
> print( c("A", "B", "C") != "C" )
0 0 0
dalek R: 0e2701c | (Jay Emerson)++ | src/nqr/ (2 files):
First relational operators, thanks moritz++
 16:10
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dalek R: 24c2284 | (Jay Emerson)++ | src/nqr/Grammar.pm:
More operators
 17:21
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cotto ~~ 17:28
kid51, I usually consider the bottom of that file to be the canonical list.
Felipe hi guys 17:36
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fivetonsflax hi cotto 17:43
just dropped in to say I haven't vanished -- life got in the way, but I'm still going to work on your "glossy brochure".
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kid51 cotto: Yes, that's the place I was looking. 17:52
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cotto Coke (or someone) tried to set up a Google calendar for it, but it's easier just to edit the file. 18:05
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kid51 Does anyone know who first came up with the idea of Parrot as a register-based VM? 18:15
jay Suppose I wanted to implement my own PAST::Op while loop... am I nuts? 18:16
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cotto kid51, allison would probably know that. 18:20
kid51 is preparing his talk for FOSSCON next Saturday. 18:24
Felipe cool 18:30
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jay I have a possible PAST operator inconsistency between 'if' and the evaluation of a 'while' condition. Anyone here know about this? 18:47
allison kid51, cotto: it's been register-based from the very beginning 18:55
allison tries to get github to let her link to ancient commits
kid51: the first two commits to parrot (ever) were a README file and nothing else 18:56
kid51: the third commit was Simon Cozen's working directory and included register.h and register.c 18:57
kid51: which defined our, now very familiar, I, N, S, and P register types
kid51: August 29th, 2001 18:58
kid51 Does that mean it was Simon's idea? Or was he merely the first to commit those to CVS? (I know he has commit 1)
allison kid51: Simon and Dan worked pretty closely together, so I'd say it was a join inspiration rather than solely Simon's idea 18:59
kid51 thx
I am going to post to parrot-dev a message which asks questions like these.
allison kid51: dan made some posts later that show he was entirely in favor of the idea, but don't claim it as "his" idea www.sidhe.org/~dan/blog/archives/000189.html
kid51: navigating history in github is a pain, if you're curious, try giggle 19:01
(and it's Ask that has commit #1 and #2, Simon has commit #3) 19:03
kid51 allison: I'm not probing that deeply. I'm looking for one-sentence descriptions I can include in an introductory level talk -- or one sentence answers anyone familiar with Parrot should be able to give. 19:04
jay Retracting PAST operator question. May be ok (though I am not).
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bubaflub ~ 19:09
jay: how goes the coding? 19:23
cotto first commit: github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/9b...375571591a 19:32
jay bubaflub... hit a wall under the hood, now in PAST and pirop land. Can I ask a question? 19:41
bubaflub jay: go ahead; can't guarantee that i'll be able to answer
jay I have a place in Actions.pm, $cond = $<EXPR>.ast. I know that this will evaluate to a ResizableIntegerArray of length 1, but I really want it to evaluate to the contents (stripping away the PMC). Not getting anywhere, don't know quite enough. This is modifying standard 'if' and 'while' logical condition evaluation. 19:43
The reason for this is every object in the NQR world is a Resizable*Array. No literals.
I think I need something like my $cond := PAST::Op.new( :pirop<set__IP>, # Set or coercion? 19:44
$<EXPR>.ast );
(sorry, that didn't display well) 19:45
bubaflub jay: i'm not entirely sure; why do you want to strip away the container and get the contents? 19:47
jay Because the 'if' and 'while' actions need $cond to evaluate to 0 or 1, and they don't know what to do with the arrays of length 1.
tadzik jay: how about $<EXPR>.ast[0]? 19:48
jay I'll try that again, but I did already and it didn't like it. Just a sec.
No. Compiles, but isn't doing the right thing. 19:49
bubaflub jay: regrettably i don't know much about that area of Parrot. 19:50
jay I really think it needs to be a PAST::Op.new of some sort acting on $<EXPR>.ast.
moritz so your question is really "how do I represent a .[] keying access in PAST", right? 19:55
jay Maybe, sounds close. We just tried pirop<get_integer_keyed> and didn't get anywhere. 19:56
moritz set__PQi pirop might help 19:57
jay We'll try it now. Thanks.
PQi... is the return the i? P and Q would be what? 19:58
moritz returns a P
Q means a PMC that is accessed with a key, or something 19:59
and i would be the index
jay I'll try, I'm thinking we want iQi then, is that legal?
moritz dunno, try it :-)
jay lol willdo! Thanks.
moritz++ for the 10^th time today. You rock. You have no idea how far I've gotten in the last 8 hours because of your little nuggets. 20:00
I'll blog it later. 20:01
moritz jay: and I always have the feeling I can't answer most of your questions, just point in vague directions 20:02
jay: one more vague direction: github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/blob/maste...ns.pm#L764 is how nqp-rx itself compiles $thing[index]
jay That's my fault because my questions are probably not quite stated properly.
I'll copy that and add it to my growing random notes to look at.
moritz actually I'm surprised not more people ask questions like you do 20:03
they are the typical ones that come up when you write a compiler
jay They must be smarter than I am.
moritz or they give up earlier :-) 20:04
dalek kudo/nom: afc5299 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/Num (2 files):
Fix Numeric.exp($base). Add "multi" to Num.exp.
 20:05
kudo/nom: 7940ef2 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
Add exp(Numeric, Numeric). Fix infix:<**>(Int, Int) to handle negative powers properly.
kudo/nom: 1fbe8b1 | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
Turned on exp.t.
kudo/nom: 9fd4115 | (Solomon Foster)++ | t/spectest.data:
Turn on gcd.t, add lcm.t.
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soh_cah_toa ~~ 20:33
GodFather Newbe, I want to write a token statement to recognize the following perl 5 regex [A-Za-z][-_A-Za-z0-9]* therefore token varname { [A-Za-z][-_A-Za-z0-9]* } 20:58
soh_cah_toa GodFather: that looks right to me 21:03
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GodFather when I run parrot Per6Grammar.pbc --output=file.pir file.pg I get the error. 21:07
unable to parse regex at line 11, near "{ [A-Za-z]"
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soh_cah_toa GodFather: could you nopaste the source code? 21:08
GodFather Sorry don't know how to nopaste 21:09
soh_cah_toa GodFather: nopaste.snit.ch 21:10
kid51 aloha: nopaste?
aloha kid51: nopaste is is nopaste.snit.ch (works with the script in $_PARROT/tools/dev/nopaste.pl)
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GodFather soh_cah_toa, I think I figured it out... When expressing [A-Z] (perl5 syntax) in Perl6 the equivalent is <[A..Z]> I just tried a test and it worked. 21:14
soh_cah_toa oh yeah, i think you're right 21:15
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bubaflub GodFather: you're right - perl6 regexes work slightly differently. i usually read feather.perl6.nl/syn/S05.html 21:23
TimToady you can also try feeding things to std: on freenode #perl6 and it'll usually tell you when it spots a p5ism 21:24
p6eval: niecza: /[A-Z]/ 21:26
p6eval TimToady: niecza v7-38-gf5e9082: OUTPUT«[31m===[0mSORRY![31m===[0m␤␤Invalid regex metacharacter (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/6FspKhflYZ line 1:␤------> [32m/[A-[33m⏏[31mZ]/[0m␤␤Action method metachar:sym<-> not yet implemented at /tmp/6FspKhflYZ line 1:␤------> [32m/[A-[3…
TimToady std: /[A-Z]/
p6eval std 516268a: OUTPUT«Can't locate Moose.pm in @INC (@INC contains: /home/p6eval/perl5/perlbrew/perls/perl-5.14.1-RC1/lib/site_perl/5.14.1/x86_64-linux /home/p6eval/perl5/perlbrew/perls/perl-5.14.1-RC1/lib/site_perl/5.14.1 /home/p6eval/perl5/perlbrew/perls/perl-5.14.1-RC1/lib/5.14.1/x86_6…
TimToady ooh
tadzik hihi 21:27
TimToady well, niecza has similar messages
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TimToady with the new LTM nom should get there pretty soon too 21:27
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GodFather Thanks to all who provided help!! 21:54
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Felipe odd, I've posted a comment in a ticket, but no mail was sent to ticket lists. 23:07
got the mail now :) 23:17
dukeleto ~~ 23:24
Felipe I have closed a bug that seems already fixed, any problem? 23:25
cotto Felipe, if you're 100% sure, great. If not, someone here can verify. 23:28
Felipe k
dalek website: soh_cah_toa++ | Good News, Everyone! 23:32
website: www.parrot.org/content/good-news-everyone
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dalek TT #1688 closed by Felipe++: Internal assertion triggered when writing trivial code. 23:38
TT #1688: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/1688

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