Parrot 3.10.0 "Apple Pi" | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot | #parrotsketch meeting Tuesday 19:30 UTC
Set by moderator on 2 December 2011.
dalek rrot: 651dd87 | Whiteknight++ | / (2 files):
re-headerize and fix a typo
 00:02
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aloha (parrot/parrot) Issues closed : 235 (Cleanup compiler function GCI ) by Alekssasho : github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/235 00:42
bacek_at_work ~~ 00:56
cotto dukeleto, ping 01:19
wiki.call-cc.org/chicken-compilation-process 01:45
03:18 jsut joined 03:38 Psyche^ joined 05:11 cky joined 05:50 benabik joined 05:59 alvis joined
dukeleto cotto: pong 06:18
dalek rrot: c6a80b8 | dukeleto++ | t/pmc/timer.t:
Remove an svn remnant in the Timer tests
 06:21
cotto dukeleto, how's your new gig going to mesh with #ps? 06:23
are you still working remotely?
dukeleto why, oh why are our Timer PMC tests in pasm? And why do they hang on OS X?
cotto: still working remotely, but the last few weeks have just been crazy with holidays and starting the new gig
cotto: are we thinking of changing the time of #ps? 06:24
cotto dukeleto, I figured it was something like that
nobody's brought it up
dukeleto cotto: this CHICKEN stuff is interesting
cotto: we kind of fell off the M0 horse. How do we get back on? 06:25
cotto dukeleto, that's what I've been thinking about. 06:26
From where I can see, the next step is getting 6model in core.
bacek ~~
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cotto That comes with its own set of questions. 06:26
hio bacek
bacek cotto, aloha
cotto among which are:
how do we do the transition so that the nqp folks stay happy and still retain the necessary degree of control over what they need 06:27
that's the big one
dukeleto bacek: fancy seeing you here 06:28
cotto: i am confused by the current status of 6model/nqpq or whatever it is called 06:29
bacek dukeleto, yeah... It's been a while...
dukeleto bacek: i feel ya. I haven't been in here in quite a while myself
cotto dukeleto, welcome to the club
bacek current 6model is nice and shiny.
cotto I have no idea what qregex or nqpq are
bacek, and still changing a bit, last I looked (early december-ish)
benabik NFA based regexen.
dukeleto and what is the status of Rakudo on the nom branch? Are they still fighting regressions and such? 06:30
bacek irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-01-08#i_4949636
cotto, 6model is stable (fsvo)
in order to properly incorporate it into parrot we have to:
cotto <3
bacek 1. Throw away all PMC crap.
cotto <3<3 06:31
bacek 2. Throw away whole lot of VTABLE crap
3. Throw away current PCC.
benabik More specifically, QRegex is NFA based regex and nqpq is nqp + qregex.
bacek after first 2 steps number of ops will be reduced to about 100
dukeleto bacek: QAST? 06:32
bacek ah, yes.
4. Throw away IMCC just because you can't teach old dog new tricks.
dukeleto sounds like 6model in parrot core means rewriting parrot core
bacek dukeleto, QAST is primitive Captures with bit of accessors
dukeleto bacek: what is the Q for? Queasy?
benabik nQp 06:33
bacek dukeleto, yes. And it's only one way to keep parrot alive.
benabik QAST is NQP's PAST replacement/extension.
dukeleto bacek: how does that mesh with m0? M0 is, supposedly, the rewrite of parrot core that the least amount of people disagree about
cotto bacek, do you see a way to make that transition reasonably smooth? 06:34
dukeleto bacek: so it seems we need to know how to bolt 6model to m0
bacek cotto, nope. And I don't see any value in about 90% of current parrot codebase. 06:35
dukeleto, it's reasonably easy. Just implement "m0 vm". 6model is VM agnostic.
cotto the part of me that reads Joel is fighting with the part of me that's looked at the code you're talkiing about
6model is just code 06:36
m0 is a thingy that runs code
together, they fight crime
benabik cotto: I think we can make PMCs a kind of REPR and have the new and old stuff co-exist.
bacek cotto, Spolsky? "2dn version problem"? Or it was Brooks?
dukeleto bacek: i have a hard time swallowing the "vm agnostic" koolaid. Not that I don't believe it will be, but I think that will come with huge performance problems
cotto bacek, yeah. I remember it from Spolsky's blog, but it could have come from Brooks. 06:37
dukeleto cotto: last i remember we went down a research hole with m0
cotto benabik, good point
yeah
dukeleto cotto: i was trying to research ARM opcodes and got lost in the madness
cotto: suffice to say, ARM is complicated. There is no "ARM". There are a collection of related architectures which are ARMish 06:38
cotto dukeleto, I have a better idea of how it actually needs to be implemented, but it's not the priority until 6model in core is looking more likely.
yeah. It explains why I see LWN articles on how the arm kernel code is a mess.
dukeleto how does 6model relate to a new JIT in the future? 06:39
orthogonal? perpendicular?
cotto I see it as orthogonal.
benabik dukeleto: Right angles or right angles?
dukeleto M0 motivates me, because we can't get a JIT without M0. But 6model seems like just another (albeit very nice and shiny) refactor. 06:40
No one needs to sell me on the features of 6model. I get it, I buy it. But still: Just another refactor.
dukeleto needs to sleep, since he refactored timezones today 06:41
cotto dukeleto, some kind of object system refactor is necessary if we want to support other hlls.
benabik M0 is movement towards JIT. 6model is movement towards making more languages easier. (I think.)
cotto benabik, yes
dukeleto cotto: yes, totally. But 6model requires an entire rewrite. Not quite an "object system upgrade"
benabik I _think_ that the problems with Python's object system during GSoC would have been far easier with 6model.
dukeleto benabik: yes, i agree 06:42
cotto benabik, also my understanding
dukeleto, different people get excited about different things
I see 6model as being more immediately necessary, so that's where I plan on focusing my energy.
dukeleto, are you interested in taking the lead on M0? 06:43
dukeleto cotto: throwing me under the bus, eh?
cotto (I'm not going anywhere, of course.)
dukeleto, I'm wary of buses.
dukeleto cotto: i am not sure what the title of "lead" on M0 would change
cotto dukeleto, "title"? ;) 06:44
benabik dukeleto: different timezone? Where'd you wonder off to/from?
benabik is a little slow, should probably already be asleep.
dukeleto I am now on EST visiting family and will be attending Perl Oasis later this week.
cotto: i definitely haven't forgotten about m0, but I sure have too many started projects. 06:45
benabik "Perl, Go-Karts, and Beer" Sounds good.
dukeleto benabik: indeed! It is my first time. Should be fun.
I will be talking about Jitterbug
cotto dukeleto, you do what you have the tuits for. Since I plan on working on 6model, you're welcome to do with M0 as you see fit and see how far you can take it. 06:46
dukeleto cotto: i will think about how to proceed with m0. If you can do some kind of email to parrot-dev with an m0 brain dump, that would be useful
cotto: sounds good
dukeleto .sleep() 06:47
cotto dukeleto, alright. It might not be until tomorrow though. I'm up early (and ideally down soon)
'night, dukeleto
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bacek aloha, clock? 07:56
aloha bacek: LAX: Sun, 23:56 PST / CHI: Mon, 01:56 CST / NYC: Mon, 02:56 EST / UTC: Mon, 07:56 UTC / LON: Mon, 07:56 GMT / BER: Mon, 08:56 CET / TOK: Mon, 16:56 JST / SYD: Mon, 18:56 EST
sorear Why does aloha list both UTC and LON? I thought everyone knew those were the same. 07:59
...wait, British Summer Time, nevermind 08:00
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dalek p: bb332d9 | bacek++ | src/pmc/ (3 files):
Don't use pmc-specific accessors when not necessary
 09:33
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kshannon Is there anyone here familiar with how big a job it'd be to get the parrot debugger working again? 10:16
alvis kshannon: You might ask/msg Whiteknight. He said, at one point, he wanted to take a look at it. 10:21
moritz wasn't there a gsoc project for reviving the debugger? 10:24
tadzik there was
it didn't go exactly according to the plan, ISTR 10:25
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dukeleto ~~ 13:23
dalek href="https://parrot.github.com:">parrot.github.com: 0a08012 | alvis++ | / (2 files):
Updated index.html and releases.html to reflect the change over to parrot-docsx repos.
dukeleto kshannon: soh_cah_toa++ is a good person to ask debugerry stuff 13:24
kshannon: he worked on it most recently.
alvis++ # documentation whisperer 13:25
dalek href="https://parrot.github.com:">parrot.github.com: 815f0f6 | alvis++ | / (14795 files):
Removed 3.10.0 through 1.0.0 in favor of the change over to parrot-docsx repos.
 13:28
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dalek href="https://parrot.github.com:">parrot.github.com: 946baa6 | alvis++ | index.html:
Corrected missing '>' on html tag.
 13:42
href="https://parrot.github.com:">parrot.github.com: 6b9e5f0 | alvis++ | releases.html:
Fixed an oops - to correct the text to the links to the 0.*.* docs
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dalek kudo/nom: 8b620e7 | moritz++ | src/core/Enumeration.pm:
Enumeration.roll
 14:11
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dukeleto the timer pmc tests going into an infinite loop on OS X is starting to really bug me 14:55
they will feel my wrath, soon
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alester Did people get spammed from GitHub? Rick is importing tickets. 16:44
cotto ~~ 16:47
alester: ! 16:48
alester ?
cotto (in a good way)
I'm excited that the import is happening.
that's all
alester It's the 2nd attempt
we'll check it again
and then he'll do the final one.
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moritz hasn't got github ticket spam 17:27
17:45 zby_home joined 18:03 alin joined, fperrad joined 18:28 Myhrlin joined 18:34 he joined 19:13 mj41 joined 19:24 alin joined
alester OK, get out there and check for GitHub ticket problems! 19:39
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cotto alester++ 19:51
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dalek kudo/nom: 0838f41 | jnthn++ | src/ (2 files):
Implement .DEFINITE.
 20:18
kudo/nom: b1d3c7c | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/ (4 files):
Refactor to use method_table in place of methods inside of MOP.
kudo/nom: 1f302f8 | jnthn++ | src/ (6 files):
Implement :excl and :all for methods, attributes and parents. Make :excl the default.
kudo/nom: b21d28b | jnthn++ | src/ops/perl6.ops:
Fix .DEFINITE for container case.
kudo/nom: e65b6b1 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm:
Fixes to .is_dispatcher and .is_generic.
kudo/nom: 783b468 | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
Run S12-introspection/definite.t.
kudo/nom: de59b4b | jnthn++ | docs/ChangeLog:
Start a ChangeLog for the month, so we don't have it all to do right before the next release.
 20:32
p/qbootstrap: f500829 | kshannon++ | .gitignore:
Make git ignore all *.pbc
 20:37
p/qbootstrap: e4fe3ad | kshannon++ | src/QRegex/NFA.nqp:
The enumcharlist can be negated.

Fix the NFA building to pay attention to that.
kudo/nom: 6bf68d0 | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
Run S14-roles/anonymous.t.
 20:39
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dalek kudo/nom: b281b21 | jnthn++ | src/core/Hash.pm:
Handle various other cases of Hash.delete.
 21:03
kudo/nom: f4b327b | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
Run S32-hash/delete.t.
kudo/nom: c827edc | jnthn++ | src/core/Array.pm:
Implement Array.delete (based on ng code, but with various tweaks and updatings).
kudo/nom: 38165a5 | jnthn++ | t/spectest.data:
Run S32-array/delete.t.
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dalek kudo/staged-setting-fail: 664f46b | jnthn++ | src/core/control.pm:
Work around pir::... limitation.
 22:30
kudo/staged-setting-fail: ab92aff | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
Fix for the 'Sub doesn't have an SC' issue - CORE and CORE2 both compile now.
 22:56
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bacek_at_work ~~ 23:55

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