Parrot 4.2.0 "Ornithopter" | parrot.org | Log: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot | #parrotsketch meeting Tuesday 19:30 UTC
Set by moderator on 21 March 2012.
00:00 kid51 joined
whiteknight dukeleto? 00:09
which one, from jaswanth? 00:10
That email from him was just an introduction, a real proposal is coming soon, I'm told
and I can send an update about PLA to the list
00:14 schmooster joined 01:04 jashwanth joined
jashwanth dukeleto:hello 01:14
whiteknight bacek: ping 01:22
msg bacek_at_work dalek is missing. Is that something you can fix? 01:24
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
bacek_at_work whiteknight, I can't. But afaik Infinoid or sorear can. 01:33
sorear the machine dalek is hosted on is being decommissioned. 01:34
moritz++ is moving all the services to feather3
whiteknight ah, okay. That explains it 01:35
I can never remember who runs that bot
sorear with help from diakopter++ and a tiny bit from me
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benabik ~~ 01:57
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nine moritz: yes the mandelbrot you posted on parrot-dev when we merged green_threads. It's totally weird. Results vary by several seconds. Just now I did an init S to have a completely quiet system and now the benchmark takes about 53 seconds compared to 44 yesterday evening. 07:13
moritz nine: without any code changes? 07:15
sorear msg whiteknight dalek lives 07:19
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
moritz an admin of parrot.org/github/ needs to change the host name of the post-commit hook 07:41
it's now feather3.perl6.nl
07:42 wagle joined
sorear ITYM github.org/parrot 07:43
07:45 mj41 joined
moritz erm, yes, other way round :-) 07:46
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nine moritz: yep, without any changes whatsoever using the same perl6 binary 08:32
moritz: and now with a running desktop I'm back to 44 seconds. I'm baffled 08:34
moritz maybe that runmode disables some memory management techniques, or caching, or something? 08:35
nine maybe turbo mode? 08:36
moritz my PC doesn't have that button anymore :-)
nine If it was a button, I could at least make sure it was pressed all the time :) 08:39
moritz anyway, the mandelbrot benchmark worked pretty well for me in the past, though it wasn't really designed as a benchmark 08:40
tadzik and then wings of fury will run too fast and the plane will not take off :(
moritz if you find something better, be sure to let me know 08:41
nine Another question: do I actually have to rebuild rakudo to test parrot's performance?
moritz hm, maybe not; libparrot.so is dynamically linked 08:43
though of course rebuilding rakudo is also a parrot benchmark with RL relevancy
nine not having to rebuild rakudo would save lots of time testing different implementations 08:44
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nine Seems like small changes do work, but when switching branches I have to rebuild rakudo 09:15
moritz then it might make sense to have a separate copy of parrot+rakudo for each branch that you work on regularly 09:18
nine indeed 09:20
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bacek ~~ 09:30
msg whiteknight I started new branch pcc_reorder_signatures to just split Singatures from CallContext. Actual reorder of CallContext creation will be done later after this one. 09:47
aloha OK. I'll deliver the message.
moritz didn't we unify the two earlier to get less GC pressure? 09:57
bacek moritz, yes. I did it. But new Parrot_Signature isn't PMC. 10:02
and it's 1-to-1 owned by CallContext.
So, it will increase memory pressure _slightly_ 10:03
But it will allow to allocate CallContext on callee side when needed.
Huge win for tailcalls for example
Or C methods
When we don't need separated CallContext.
10:07 PacoAir joined
moritz ok 10:08
11:49 benabik joined
benabik ~ 12:00
jlaire huh? 12:22
benabik jlaire: huh what?
jlaire benabik: why was I op'd 12:23
moritz huh. Things happen. Trust is placed.
jlaire nah, I'm just a lurker who's never contributed anything 12:25
but thanks :)
moritz jlaire: well, if you lurk long enough, we start to trust you :-) 12:26
12:28 whiteknight joined
whiteknight good morning, #parrot 12:28
benabik 'lo whiteknight 12:29
whiteknight hello benabik
how are you doing today?
benabik whiteknight: Doing alright. Lacking sleep. Have to do homework and proposals. :-D 12:30
I hate nearly finishing an assignment before noticing a small comment near the end that says "be sure to use the $Id$ and $Log$ tags in your code". Of course I used git, so I have a log, just not anything automatically inserted. 13:35
I'm tempted to just take the `git log` output and munge it until it looks like CVS.
whiteknight that's a weird requirement. Did the teacher expect you to use CVS? 13:37
moritz SVN probably 13:38
benabik SCCS, RCS, or CVS. The class is "Software Development Tools" and we just had a lecture on them, so I should have expected it.
But that requirement was after the "how to submit" so I glossed over it. :-(
moritz benabik: well, you can add $Id$ tags in git 13:39
benabik: they just won't get expanded
benabik moritz: Well setting the ident attribute will expand the Id tag, but it won't help with the log.
moritz well, but even if they don't get expanded, you met the requirement to "use them in your code" :-) 13:40
benabik Hah!
szbalint People still teaching CVS are unfit to lecture :\\ 13:50
benabik It's important to learn what's come before. And if you want to understand the theory behind SCM, then CVS is much simpler to explain. 13:51
whiteknight I had several teachers who insisted all the world would ever need is FORTRAN77
benabik My prof. doesn't insist that CVS is good, just that it was used and what it does. :-) 13:52
whiteknight In my senior year, when we were compiling DOS programs in C using Borland 4.52, FORTRAN77 didn't look so bad
NotFound Real programmers can write Fortran in any language. 13:53
szbalint it's important to learn about version control but RCS/CVS is a bad, obsolete example 13:54
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szbalint unlearning CVS takes some effort too, if you ever want to use proper branches and think about changesets, distributed repositories etc... 13:56
atrodo NotFound++
szbalint> I had an advantage when git came on the scene. I never "learned" cvs, it never made sense to me.
whiteknight At my last job they used an old version of visual source safe, which was awesome until you had multiple people working on things at once 13:58
benabik VSS considered harmful
szbalint kind of defeats the purpose :)
whiteknight we switched over to svn when we got enough people in the office who understood the advantages 13:59
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Coke do we still need to update dalek's url for #parrot? 16:27
benabik Coke: probably 16:28
Coke szbalint: a case can be made that cvs is better at many things than subversion is. 16:29
I see a post-receive URL of host04.appflux.net:5000/dalek?t=magnet,parrot
benabik It apparently needs to be feather3.perl6.nl 16:32
walk &
Coke same port? 16:33
Coke checks perl6 github admin stuff.
.. except I'm not a perl6 admin. 16:34
Coke shrugs.
dukeleto ~~ 16:42
Coke ~~
whiteknight ~~ 16:44
nine ~~ 16:51
benabik ~~ 16:57
Coke: All I know is that the host needs to change. moritz is the one who mentioned it here. 16:58
Coke benabik: aye.
moritz Coke: it needs to change to feather3.perl6.nl:5000/dalek?t=magnet,parrot 16:59
Coke ok. I entered, hit "test", nothing happened. I clicked save. 17:01
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dalek rrot/ayardley/parrot_github_release: 66a7335 | alvis++ | tools/release/parrot_github_release.pl (2 files):
Start work on parrot_github_release.pl
 17:32
rrot/ayardley/parrot_github_release: 76b9b10 | alvis++ | tools/release/parrot_github_release.pl~:
Remove emacs' temporary working file.
rrot/ayardley/parrot_github_release: 177fc78 | alvis++ | docs/project/release_parrot_github_guide.pod:
Add 'docs/projecet/release_parrot_github_guide.pod' into the branch.
rrot/ayardley/parrot_github_release: f8d97af | alvis++ | / (222 files):
Merge branch 'master' into ayardley/parrot_github_release
rrot/ayardley/parrot_github_release: ee1662f | alvis++ | tools/release/parrot_github_release.pl:
Automation of the first part of the process -- to archive 'docs/' to the parrot-docsx repo -- complete.
rrot/ayardley/parrot_github_release: 8f686bc | alvis++ | tools/release/parrot_github_release.pl:
autogen script to package parrot.github.com and supporting repositories - 99 percent complete and tested.
benabik ohai
dukeleto alvis++ 17:34
benabik Oh, hey. That branch even looks really useful. alvis++ 17:35
whiteknight alvis++ 17:37
nine Damn...my thesis is not even finished yet but it's already outdated in some places 17:40
benabik hah
nine I guess that's the way of all written documentation 17:41
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dukeleto nine: that is why I like math. Correct proofs are never outdated 18:46
nine: but sometimes people find shorter ones :)
nine aspell++ # fixing my terrible spelling 18:47
18:51 elmex joined
nine vim++ # set spell # awesome! 18:55
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benabik I've aliased \\s to set togglespell 19:27
nine So...enough for today. Good night, #parrot! 19:35
benabik G'night, nine! 19:36
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whiteknight well, we've received our first proposal for GSOC 20:05
benabik That's on my weekend todo list.
Is it an interesting one? 20:06
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whiteknight LAPACK bindings for PLA 20:06
I think it's pretty interesting
I've gotten at least half a dozen emails from other interested students, but very little follow-up so far 20:07
benabik I see how it could be useful.
whiteknight It's a necessary part of the runtime for a MATLAB-alike compiler, which I still plan to work on eventually 20:08
NotFound lapack + threading has potential for number crunching applications. 20:09
whiteknight yes, definitely
and graphics applications 20:11
dukeleto I am all for LAPACK stuff. 20:22
But do take note that people that are *insane* about performance laugh at everything that is not Fortran.
if we can get away with very little overhead and basically ffi directly out to Fortran, we have a chance of wooing them
whiteknight dukeleto: that's what the bindings are 20:23
dukeleto: The BLAS wrappers are basically just PMCs to manage the memory buffers and make the gemm calls
NotFound "insane people aren't useful anyway", said PerlJam yesterday.
whiteknight the LAPACK bindings will be NCI ties to LAPACK, with some fallback implementations if LAPACK isn't available
so the calculations are still possible, but not as fast 20:24
Coke we have enough trouble being fast as perl, let alone fast as fortran. ;)
whiteknight fortran takes the approach that if brain is not aerodynamic enough, the brain can go 20:25
dukeleto Coke: huh? We are faster than Perl 5 in many cases. The ones that are fair, anyway. Where are we slower than Perl 5?
Coke: also, comparing Parrot vs. Perl 5 isn't fair on either side. A better comparison would be Winxed vs. Perl 5 20:26
NotFound Many people are using Python for scientific caclulations, not everyone wants or needs the maximum runtime speed.
Coke dukeleto: no, a better comparison is rakudo vs. perl5 20:27
dukeleto NotFound: yeah, but scipy is very fast and is basically a binding to fortran
Coke: I am more interested in Winxed benchmarks, but yes, Rakudo vs. Perl 5 is fair. I just don't have a horse in that race 20:28
Coke as someone on the board of the parrot foundation, you probably should. 20:29
which reminds me, how long until we have last august's elections?
NotFound What's the difference between Parrit vs, Perl5 and Winxed vs. Perl 5?
You mean PIR?
Coke (not that I think you should be ousted nor do I intend to run.)
whiteknight Coke: Whenever somebody is motivated enough to run them 20:31
NotFound If you have some case of hand coded PIR significantly faster than winxed, let me know. 20:32
(Not that I think it's not possible, just to know where code generation must be improved) 20:34
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Coke whiteknight: my main concern is how, if it all, it impacts parrot's legal status. 22:23
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whiteknight good afternoon, #parrot 22:43
dukeleto whiteknight: howdy 22:44
whiteknight hello dukeleto. how are you doing todaY? 22:49
dukeleto whiteknight: decent 23:24
whiteknight: i am getting closer to my closing date on the house I am trying to buy
whiteknight: i know you know how stressful that is :)
whiteknight yes, but very worth it 23:29
I wish you all the best of luck
dukeleto whiteknight: thanks. Closing is april 12th 23:30
whiteknight: down to the nitty gritty
whiteknight dukeleto: the only real advice I have is this: It's not over till it's over. Don't burn any bridges until the papers are signed
because we paid big $$ to get out of our lease early, and settlement fell through, and we were stuck 23:31
dukeleto whiteknight: i don't believe anything until the keys are in my hand.
whiteknight good man
dukeleto whiteknight: yes, I read all about your trials and tribulations from your blog :)
whiteknight I only wrote about the parts that I can type out without falling back to a stream of cursewords
dukeleto whiteknight: yeah. I feel ya.
whiteknight otherwise most of my posts would have been "that mother**** realtor needs to **** a **** and shove her **** up her own ****" 23:32
dukeleto laughs more than usual 23:33
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dukeleto kid51: top of the localtime() 23:38
kid51 Hello 23:53

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