#parrot Parrot 0.5.2 Released | parrotcode.org/ | see www.parrotcode.org/misc/parrotsketch-logs/ for logs
Set by moderator on 11 February 2008.
svnbotl r26053 | chromatic++ | trunk: 00:00
: [gc] Constant PMCs with custom mark() entries now always get called during the
: mark phase of GC, even if their live flag is set. (Nothing clears their live
: flag during sweep, so any of their contained PObjs might not get marked during
: the next mark phase.)
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kid51 Am looking for people who can give the new configuration step tests a whirl; any volunteers? 00:28
00:34 lbr joined
lbr OHAI 00:35
davidfetter HAI 00:36
I MAED NU FRENZ
kid51 purl: OHAI?
purl kid51: wish i knew
lbr I made a syntax error in my first lolcode program ever 00:37
kid51 purl, Ohai is a town in the Southland Region of New Zealand's South Island.
purl OK, kid51.
lbr kid51: I was amused that my tiny patch from 2004 is still causing me to get the occasional parrot mail ;)
davidfetter kid51, it's lolcode
icanhascheezburger.com/2007/09/29/i...-nu-frend/ 00:38
kid51 lbr: Aha! so can you answer the question I posed? 00:39
lbr did and didn't, sorry
2004? where did that come from. 2003! 00:44
kid51: just read the ticket - I'm really the wrong person to ask whether it should be closed, since the scope changed since I was least involved 00:48
my opionion, 5.8.0 time, was that perls implementation is "not good enough, but maybe best we can do"
(s/least/last/) 00:49
kid51 IIUC, that was Chip's last comment on the subject as well. But he's not around to ask. 00:51
lbr hasn't been following the soap that is parrot :) 01:08
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kid51 Am getting 500 Server Errors at rt.perl.org. 01:49
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jdv79 soap? 02:21
purl soap is, like, Snakes on a @($*&@ Plane!~ or images.ucomics.com/comics/wpswi/200...060820.gif or something you don't drop in prison or http when you actually read the spec
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lbr jdv79: episodical with DRAMA! 02:49
kid51 must sleep 03:06
purl $kid51->sleep(8 * 3600);
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Coke bah. GC bugs in tcl again. 03:52
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pmichaud svn up's to get a fresh copy of Parrot to take with him on the plane 03:58
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Coke plane back? 04:01
pmichaud yes
Coke safe travels 04:02
pmichaud thanks. the next couple of days will be long stretches of nothing to do punctuated by rushing to get something done
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lbr pmichaud: svn up? how do you manage without offline diff? 04:05
lbr goes crazy
pmichaud I'm rarely offline.
lbr I mean svk has its many variances of suck, but at least you have a working copy :) 04:06
Coke I'm never offline long enough for it to matter.
pmichaud I have a working copy with svn, too. But I suspect you mean "at least you can do intermediate commits."
lbr yes, but I do mean "svn diff"
pmichaud oh 04:07
that's not actually something I typically need while writing
probably just the way I program
lbr uses it all the time on the modest assumption that he usually supplies the fuck ups not his team 04:08
lbr is not always right
Coke svn diff works fine offline.
lbr really?
pmichaud coke: for the most recent revision only, or even for historical ones?
Coke "local changes vs. whatever the last updated version" 04:09
pmichaud right
lbr which is the interesting bit
if only svn could merge a liiiitle smarte 04:10
r
pmichaud hmmm, it looks to me I could get a lot of spectests passing just by making them actually follow the spec :-)
Coke punk. 04:11
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Coke seen tene? 04:29
purl tene was last seen on #parrot 1 day and 17 hours ago, saying: Oh, right, rakudo can't do IO yet. [Feb 23 03:08:42 2008]
04:30 julian joined
Andy evening all 04:34
purl morning Andy
pmichaud morning Andy 04:35
Coke Hurm. I have a pmc that isa RPA. I also have a PIR sort method. I should be able to convince the pmc to sort itself without having to roll my own quicksort.
Andy see perlbuzz for stuff that people said about you
pmichaud Coke: presuming that the elements of the RPA all know how to compare themselves?
Coke pmichaud: that's what the PIR sort method is for. 04:36
pmichaud oh, so passing the PIR sort method
Coke (I may want to compare them as integers, or alpha, or...)
Right. looks like RPA inherits something from FPA that takes a c func.
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pmichaud Andy: I saw the perlbuzz article, many thanks! 04:37
Andy and I updated it with some other stuff 04:38
pmichaud I saw another posting somewhere where the person (a PHP guy) was disappointed that I didn't show "Hello world" actually running 04:40
of course, my talk was already running a bit long, so I figured information was more useful than a "hello world" demo :-) 04:41
Coke [oops; continuation 0x3a20c00 of type 23 is trying to jump from runloop 530 to runloop 1] 04:44
Someone remind me how to proceed here? =-)
pmichaud I never figured out how to resolve it. The problem has something to do with :init :load, iirc 04:45
Coke Nothing like writing a test to say "this is how I want it to work" and having it work already. 04:56
Now to figure out why the test works but the real code don't. 04:57
does anyone else wish that IMCC gave a syntax for calling something in another namespace directly? 05:00
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Coke (I find myself having to do a lot of get_root_global [], '' and then invoking it. 05:01
Andy ok, string_make_direct must die. 05:02
Tene Coke: pong? 05:06
Coke hio
05:17 jjore joined
Coke 's eyes cross staring at tcl guts. 05:28
~~
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arcady I've finally beaten PGE/PCT into submission and gotten it to parse python tuples properly 07:36
i should probably submit a patch for this 07:42
svnbotl r26054 | fperrad++ | trunk: 07:43
: [Lua]
: - add doc
diff: parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26054
arcady I can also without too much difficulty add PyList and PyTuple PMCs 07:44
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svnbotl r26055 | fperrad++ | trunk: 07:49
: [emacs]
: - update keywords
diff: parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26055
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Tene mdiep: ping 15:12
svnbotl r26056 | particle++ | trunk: 15:20
: [runtime] build yaml dumper pbc file during make all
diff: parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26056
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Andy morning all 15:24
purl morning, Andy
mdiep Tene: pong 15:28
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jonathan hi all 15:39
jonathan has made it to Holland, after a great time in the Ukraine.
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cognominal_ salut jonathan 15:45
jonathan cognominal_: hi :-) 15:46
cognominal_ how was the weather in Ukraine? 15:48
particl1 jonathan: we're totally on the same page. i just migrated t/spec/S12-methods/indirect_notation.t
jonathan particle: I actually discovered this half-implemented on my laptop when I got to Ukraine...I'm still not sure I remember starting the patch. 15:51
svnbotl r26057 | jonathan++ | trunk:
: [rakudo] Implement indirect method calls of forms $x.'foo'() and $x.$foo().
diff: parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26057
jonathan cognominal_: I got lucky and had, for Ukraine in Feb, great weather.
The worst day was Saturday, which was the conference, so I was indoors most of that. 15:52
particle: You got many OO tests done?
particle no, just starting for the day 15:53
jonathan Oh, cool.
This will be helpful, thanks.
particle well, your patch will be helpful, because now i don't have to implement what that tests :) 15:54
jonathan Got a whole load of ideas for stuff to hack on for Rakudo. 15:55
particle great. let me know what it is. 15:56
jonathan Did you see Zev's patch for letting us write bits of the runtime in Perl 6?
particle it's one of my 35 open windows atm
mncharity (write bits of the runtime in Perl 6)++ 15:57
particle i'd like to apply it with a real function in there, rather than Dummy.pm
something like List.max() seems appropriate 15:58
or steal something from the kp6 runtime
jonathan I don't think it will work too well writing classes that are part in PIR, part in Perl 6. 15:59
In fact, I *know* that won't work.
particle well, we can steal a whole class from kp6 16:00
jonathan Yes, that we can do.
particle svn.pugscode.org/v6/v6-KindaPerl6/s...ime/Perl6/ 16:02
shorten particle's url is at xrl.us/bgqec
particle oops: svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPe...ime/Perl6/
shorten particle's url is at xrl.us/bgqee
particle how about Signature?
purl Signature is, like, invalid
jonathan We don't have various stuff it needs implemented yet. :-( 16:03
particle well, it's a target to shoot for. however, List.pm is a good start
jonathan ?? !! for one.
particle we don't have ?? !! ? are you sure? 16:04
that's easy to implement, it's in PAST.
jonathan OK.
Ah, bike ride time...
back in a bit...
svnbotl r26058 | particle++ | trunk: 16:10
: [rakudo] remove deprecated compiler directives replaced by t/spec/fudge
diff: parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26058
particle tene, timtoady: ping - there's a user in #perl6 to kickban 16:23
TimToady already did 16:26
well, I just kicked, didn't ban
particle probably good enuff
TimToady if not, I'll drag out my bin of bans
Tene didn't look malicous, just broken. 16:27
particle agreed
TimToady probably some harvester bot though
if so, they'll get a lot of grief from other channels too
particle the behavior wasn't malicious, the intent may have been 16:28
TimToady so still probably won't return, except as a lurker
presuming they fix the bug
kismet what user? 16:29
TimToady alc
kismet if you suspect it's a harvester, or publisher bot, and don't want it, just let me know, I'll get it glined. Those are removed by request.
and I need, to use, a few less, commas 16:30
TimToady well, the name was jobsearc
which is a bit odd
kismet muh-god I've become James Kirk.
Tene jonathan: I'm curious about why you used $S1000 instead of %r in your inline find_method call in your latest indirect method patch. 16:32
... oh, nevermind, I just need to read.
particle kismet: thanks, but that user/chan is on freenode 16:35
...not sure if you're an op there. 16:36
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kismet nope. 16:38
but I didn't see a reference to freenode either, so I assumed it was for here. My fault for assuming.
particle no, harm, done.
TimToady well, #perl6 implies freenode, but not very hard :) 16:39
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Coke gets go ahead from his boss for the time off in yapc::na. (good thing as the flight is booked.) 17:32
and an indirect nod on yapc::eu. 17:34
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davidfetter re 17:49
anybody in lisbon atm?
anybody else* 17:50
Coke .pt or .ct.us ? 17:54
davidfetter .pt 17:55
davidfetter managed to miss all the parrots @ FOSDEM :P
Coke nope. (I could drive to .ct.us in a pinch.)
davidfetter heh
are you in .ct? 17:57
davidfetter used to live in madison...
Coke born and raised in .ct; currently living in .ny (upstate) 17:58
You can probably see most of the places I've lived from the top of the hotel at the mohegan sun. =-)
davidfetter heh
davidfetter has lived varied enough places that you can't really see them all at once from space 17:59
Coke ... what an excellent idea. I'm going to put in a few of the most geographically disparate ones, and see how high I have to go in google earth to see them all! 18:00
davidfetter heh 18:01
Coke does petergibbs show up on IRC?
davidfetter SELECT clue FROM davidfetter;
---
0 Rows
Coke seen kid51? 18:07
purl kid51 was last seen on #parrot 15 hours and 32 seconds ago, saying: must sleep
Coke opbots, names
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mncharity Hi, could I get a reality check? I'd like to have a script which takes a file with p6 grammar code (grammar Foo {...}), a grammar name (Foo), a start rule, and an input file, and runs the start rule with the input, yielding a Match tree. I'd then like to dump the Match tree to stdout, ideally as yaml. My impression of how to go about this is 18:16
use compilers/pge/ , and then... (hmm, ok, what i was thinking now seems invalid)... suggestions? 18:18
demo.pir mutant if it can (be made to)? accept a full grammar? 18:20
download nice CPAN module? 18:21
use rakudo? 18:24
davidfetter anybody seen flavio? 18:29
Tene mncharity: if we get file IO supported in rakudo, it should be a pretty short Perl 6 script. 18:39
Or you could write it in PIR using PGE
cognominal_ the thing missing is all the pair syntaxes 18:40
but one can get away with :key( 'value' )
mncharity Tene: do you have a feel for when IO might be supported? say, {February, March, later}? 18:45
Tene mncharity: I haven't looked to see if Parrot supports it yet or not. I was planning on working on it tonight or tomorrow night. 18:46
mncharity ooo, nifty. ok, I'll wait then.
re 'you could write it in PIR using PGE', given, say, a grammar and input fed as single lines, does it seem like this would be a two-ish line change to demo.pir? one to do grammar(s?) rather than a rule, and one to invoke the grammar rule? or is it "more interesting" than that? 18:48
cognominal_ Tene, I don't see io specified in perlcabal.org/syn/S29.html 18:56
on the other hand I see some tests in pugs
ho, search.cpan.org/~lichtkind/Perl6-Do...gn/S16.pod 18:58
shorten cognominal_'s url is at xrl.us/bgqng
cognominal_ not on dev.perl.org :(
particle cog: perlcabal.org/syn/S16.html -- IO 19:01
mncharity: we don't have a way to dump a match tree in yaml yet
i'm working on something that'll dump AST as yaml. 19:02
cognominal_ don't we have json? 19:06
mncharity re 'dump a match tree in yaml', ok. I could always post-process another format into yaml.
particle we've decided to use a subset of yaml that'll look much better than json 19:07
it's basically json+
mncharity re 'dump AST as yaml', yay. That's a separate objective, but perhaps the code can be applied to Match's as well.
particle yes, the yaml dumper is generic
mncharity :) 19:08
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cognominal_ json does not handle cicurlarity while yamld does if I recall correctly 19:09
particle yes, however i haven't addressed circularity yet
json doesn't address typing well
with yaml i can say: !PAST::Op { ... } 19:10
Tene docs/ops/io.pod looks good.
particle also json requires strings to be quoted, which is ugly imo and unnecessarially verbose 19:11
Tene Should be pretty straightforward to add some basic IO functions to rakudo
particle it'd be great to have spectests available before having the implementation
Tene Yes, it would. 19:12
mncharity should do it.
cognominal_ some are in pugs
particle looks like there's t/spec/S16-* already
cognominal_ yes
particle however, some smartlinked tests here (perlcabal.org/syn/S16.html) are not in t/spec/ yet 19:13
cognominal_ problem is that rakudo does not have pairs yet
particle search for "Show t/"
Tene If there are tests for 'open', 'read', and friends by tonight, I'll spend an hour or two working on implementing them tonight. 19:14
cognominal_ these tests use them intensively
particle wonders if kp6 has Pair.pm
svn.pugscode.org/pugs/v6/v6-KindaPe...l6/Pair.pm
yay!
shorten particle's url is at xrl.us/bgqn5
cognominal_ we need to parse them too
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Tene cognominal_: they're not in spec/S16-* yet. 19:14
particle let's see if i can hack zev's patch to include Pair.pm
yes, we need to parse them too, but they're in STD 19:15
Tene What do we need pairs for specifically right now?
cognominal_ I would be curious how you do it, I tried to no avail...
barney needs Pairs for Eclectus 19:16
cognominal_ in French, paire means balls too :) 19:17
time for particle to prove he have some.
Tene I'm curious about what 'method true' in that Pair.pm is for.
cognominal_ s/have/has/
particle .true returns Bool::True in Pair 19:18
Tene What... what is that good for?
particle defined testing
Tene Oh.
cognominal_ btw, I have token noun { 19:19
'True' {*} #= True
|| 'False' {*} #= False
|| <colonpair> {*} #= colonpair
# | <fatarrow> {*} #= fatarrow
but I don't know what to do for boolean actions
I find strange that booleans litterals starts by a capital because it is reserved for namespaces 19:20
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lichtkind pmichaud: cheers how is doing rakudo? 19:21
particle you should whack TimToady over the head with that q.
that was for cog, not lichtkind
lichtkind allrigth :)
particle as for boolean actions for True|False... 19:22
TimToady true() is a function
cognominal_ so what is True?
TimToady True is an enum, which is both a type and a value
particle ...Bool class sets up globals for True and False
TimToady enums are primarily considered singleton types 19:23
particle so, my True $x; # automatically contains True?
TimToady in the sense of representing only one value
yes
particle don't need to say my Bool::True $x
ok
lichtkind pmichaud: where are lieing the userdocs on parrot you told me about
particle er, i guess that'd be my Bool $x = True
TimToady and in signatures, values are even considered types in that sense
so you can have a parameter of "42" that has to match 19:24
which one uses all the time in recursive multis for the end condition
cognominal_ each time I hit TimToady with an apparent inconstency, he hits me back with a deeper consistency :)
TimToady we've been thinking about this a while now :)
it's not entirely consistent yet, but it can never be completely consistent on all levels 19:25
particle lisp begs to differ
TimToady lisp only has one level
ewilhelm and no syntax
cognominal_ but when you do my $x = True, you get a type or a value?
TimToady yes 19:26
particle now you're just having fun :)
TimToady It's mainly a value pretending to be a type
or maybe it's the other way around...
ewilhelm it's not just a typed value? 19:27
cognominal_ depends on the way you use $x?
particle $x isn't constrained only to hold True, though.
with "my True $x;" it is
TimToady yes, but that's a container type, not a value type
particle it's effectively constant
right.
TimToady there's it's using True as a real subset type 19:28
particle in "my $x = True" you get the container typed because it's value is.
TimToady subset True is Bool where {.true} or some such
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TimToady subset February of Month where 2; 19:29
an enum is just a list of those
cognominal_ it was just a matter of time that in scripting lanuguage everytin become a role. The only thing hopefully missing is the casting.
TimToady a type that is constrained to a single value may be used as that value 19:30
and protoobjects are constrained to be undefined
particle perl 6 breaks the mold, so there's no casting :P
TimToady the only question is whether its toxic mold... 19:31
*it's
particle we'll know if programmers come down with sick language syndrome 19:32
Use of uninitialized value in hash element at c:/usr/local/parrot/clean/languages/perl6/t/spec/fudge line 184, <> line 117.
hrmm.
how can i have too many windows and not enough windows open at the same time? 19:33
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cognominal_ from the dict but that could be Dilbert " take the marzipan and mold it into a cone shape." 19:33
particle wants a test harness that works better for fudge results 19:37
particle wished *nix supported negative exit status codes 19:38
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particle cognominal_: wrt 'True' action, it'd be something like 'self' 19:53
the Bool class creates globals
you can do inline pir to '%r = get_global ...' 19:54
cognominal_ in fact it should not be a noun 19:59
it must be in the hndling of typename
particle neither should 'self' or 'undef' be a noun 20:00
cognominal_ hum, in the last svn checkout I don;t get a prompt when starting rakudo :( 20:03
svnbotl r26059 | bernhard++ | trunk:
: [Plumhead]
: Remove abandoned variant 'yacc'
diff: parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26059
cognominal_ I lost hope to get parrot working with svk
hum inlining pir in actions, still new to me 20:06
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svnbotl r26060 | bernhard++ | trunk: 20:53
: #51056: [PATCH] coding style consistency and doc fix
: Courtesy of Christoph Otto.
diff: parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26060
jonathan particle: self is a noun for now because it should be a term, but a term should be a noun, and if you try and do that you get the parser into some infinite recursion. Or something. There's a comment in the grammar about this. 21:00
particle sure, my point was that we cheat. working trumps good. 21:01
zev's patch isn't working as-is 21:03
jonathan Ah? 21:05
:-S
particle a few small problems
system.pir doesn't exist, np, just remove it from the patch
jonathan Ah, OK. 21:06
particle but 'echo "" > foo.pir' is actually putting "" in the file
when it should be blank
so, i need to find a portable way to create an empty file
looking at ExtUtils::Command now
hoping 'touch' will do it 21:07
kj particle: what if you create a pir file with a comment in it?
would that help?
jonathan particle: touch won't work on win32?
particle ExtUtils::Command's touch will work, with perl
win32 doesn't have a 'touch' command in the shell
kj: trying now 21:08
kj: no, echo still displays the quotes 21:09
no quotes seems to work on linux and win32 21:10
ewilhelm particle: that's a file with "\\n" in it 21:13
particle ?
ewilhelm echo > file; wc file
has one character -- not empty
particle echo "# foo bar" > file ## displays "\\"# foo bar\\"" on windows
the quotes end up inside the file 21:14
kj what if you also echo a backspace char :-)
ewilhelm did you want an empty file or a file with no quotes in it?
try `>file`
particle echo # foo bar > file ## displays "# foo bar" on windows and linux
ewilhelm yeah, but that's not empty
particle doesn't need to be empty 21:15
just needs to be a portable command
something that's parsable pir
ewilhelm ok, thought you started with `touch`
particle empty, or a comment, or noop
ewilhelm $lurk = 1
particle yes, because an empty file is parsable pir. sorry that wasn't clean
s/n$/r/ 21:16
kj particle: a few days ago you mentioned auto generating nci stubs, in relation to a c parser. I didn'tand don't quite understand what you meant 21:18
(as I now have c99 running, I might as well see what I can do on the nci stub stuff) 21:19
particle ok, see for example runtime/parrot/library/SDL.pir 21:20
dlfunc sdl_function, libstl, ... 21:21
if we could parse the header files and generate those lines, it'd make creating nci libraries much easier 21:22
Tene kj: pdds/draft/pdd16_native_call.pod
Look at the SD... yeah, what particle said.
particle also if we could generate things like _set_Color_layout 21:23
the structs defined in the c headers
kj mm.ok what header files are you referring to? 21:24
so, I fail to see what needs to be parsed, and what needs to be generated
particle grab the libSDL package and look at SDL.h
kj i guess you mean the sdl code from sdl.org 21:30
particle rpm -qa | grep SDL 21:31
Tene Looks like kj is on windows
kj yes he is ;-)
particle ah, right. windows.
Tene That's always disorienting to me.
particle libsdl.org
kj yeah got it 21:32
Tene pleasedieinafire.net/~tene/SDL.h
kj so, for instance, consider:
extern DECLSPEC void SDLCALL SDL_QuitSubSystem(Uint32 flags);
from sdl.h
what kind of PIR is needed for this example? 21:33
ah i see (scrollback; missed that) 21:35
Tene Look at... SDL_video.h 21:36
look for extern DECLSPEC SDL_Surface * SDLCALL SDL_SetVideoMode (int width, int height, int bpp, Uint32 flags);
That matches up with:
dlfunc sdl_function, libsdl, 'SDL_SetVideoMode', 'piiil'
in SDL.pir
the first character in the last item is the return type 21:37
pointer
then the types of the arguments
int, int, int, long
kj tene: i see.thanks
is that really a pain to have to write manually? 21:38
Tene [tene@kupo ~]$ find /usr/include/ -name '*.h' | wc -l
4476
kj yeah, but obviously you're not going to invoke ALL functions on your system. 21:40
are you?
:-)
Tene Simultaneously.
purl simultaneously is pleased and scared
svnbotl r26061 | kjs++ | trunk: 21:58
: [c99] fix grammar rule to parse structs
: have # directives skipped for now through whitespace rule. not sure how to handle preprocessor; inline or as a separate parser.
diff: parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26061
Coke (generating an empty file) we already do this in pge, I think. 22:20
hurm. I see TOUCH in the makefile, but it's not where I thought it as. 22:21
22:31 Limbic_Region joined
Coke Limbic_Region: hey, Joshua. Someone was looking for you in the past week. 22:32
... ooh, we have logs you can scan. =-)
22:40 IllvilJa joined
Limbic_Region any idea who it might have been? 22:42
I got an email from robert concerning piper
haven't had a chance to provide a patch
other than that, no idea 22:43
they didn't leave a message for me via purl
Coke - where is the search functionality? I can only seem to find the raw logs 22:53
Limbic_Region can't be bothered to wait and decides to write some WWW::Mechanize instead 23:01
23:07 wknight8111 joined
Limbic_Region Coke - found it 23:12
Coke - it was jmcadams on 2008-02-22 23:13
"<jmcadams> Conrad Schneiker or Joshua Gatcomb hang out here?"
so are the logs searchable or not? 23:29
23:45 iblechbot joined 23:47 kid51 joined 23:53 cj joined 23:55 mire joined
svnbotl r26062 | jonathan++ | trunk: 23:56
: [rakudo] Make $.x used away from declaration with has do something closer to the right thing.
diff: parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision/?rev=26062

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