#parrot Parrot 0.6.4 "St. Vincent Amazon" Released | parrotcode.org/ | 15 new, 648 open, 80 stalled tix | logged in irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/today
Set by moderator on 28 July 2008.
Whiteknight very nice. good luck 00:00
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chromatic cesa1, the implementation has some drawbacks. Allison and I have long planned to review it. 00:08
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cesa1 I would like to help 00:10
Whiteknight cesa1++
cotto cesa2? 00:13
Tene heh
cotto cesar++
cesa1 there's a lot of variations in literacy ... but we could find the best choice of them that suites the parrot interests 00:15
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pmichaud generic planning note: my plan at the moment is to get standalone/precompiled modules working in Rakudo tomorrow while on the plane 00:27
(long flights, so lots of time to hack)
this will involve changes to PCT, P6object, and rakudo
</note> 00:30
particle pmichaud: if you have anything you would like me to report to sixperl, let me know
pmichaud particle: I expect I may be on the early part of the sixperl call
particle fab
pmichaud sixperl is at 15:00, flight is at 15:40
so I will probably go ahead and call in at 15:00 and give brief report 00:31
particle hope mute works well on your mobile :)
pmichaud it does on my headset -- I use that all the time on the call :-)
(which means you perhaps haven't noticed it :-)
I will likely miss next week's call 00:33
depends on cell services wherever we happen to be
I was thinking I'd miss the week after that too, but given the time differences I'm now thinking I'll likely make it :-) 00:34
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s1n i'm trying to add something to rakudo and i'm getting an error about how get_bool is not implemented, sifted through parrot's Class.pir and didn't see it 02:40
am i looking in the right place? i'm very new to writing pir stuff
kid51 This is a good place. It just depends on who's on channel at any given time. Could you paste your error? 02:41
purl paste? 02:42
purl paste is (see: nopaste) or like glue but a little safer to sniff. or nopaste.snit.ch:8001/ or scsys.co.uk:8001/ anywhere shadowpaste is or mmm, sticky paste or You there! Eating the paste. or <see> 2 girls, 1 paste
s1n yeah hang on a sec
nopaste "s1n" at 75.16.180.101 pasted "get_bool error" (3 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/13700
kid51 personally can't help you much on that, but there may be others. 02:43
s1n i don't really know what i'm doing with pir, i just figured i'd dive in head-first and i'm having trouble understand who has what implemented
Whiteknight There is a readme file or roadmap file somwehere that details the progress 02:44
i dont remember the name of it exactly
bacek roadmap?
purl roadmap is www.xray.mpe.mpg.de/mailing-lists/p...00115.html
bacek wrong roadmap 02:45
rakido roadmap?
rakudo roadmap?
purl rakudo roadmap is svn.perl.org/parrot/trunk/languages...l6/ROADMAP
bacek oh
Whiteknight: this one?
purl i think this one is bugged too now
bacek s1n: what you tried to add to get this error? 02:46
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s1n bacek: i wanted to see if i could add clone to Object.pir, which is where I assumed it was needed for S12-classes/basic.t 02:50
bacek: i was just actually trying to add the method before i filled in the implementation
bacek s1n: no. rakudo/parrot already has clone(). 02:51
s1n: and you hide originally implemented one. 02:53
clone is vtable method from parrot. So, it almost shouldn't be implemented manually in rakudo.
s1n what is a vtable method? 02:56
nopaste "s1n" at 75.16.180.101 pasted "missing clone" (6 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/13701 02:57
s1n it's not finding clone, so i'm curious what a vtable method is and why it's not being found
bacek: i've more or less have this problem with some other 'vtable methods' that don't seem to be implemented 03:00
bacek s1n: ah. ok. my bad.. 03:03
Just look ad src/classes/Range.pir. It has clone implemented
dalek r29866 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 03:04
: [rakudo]: spectest-progress update: 113 files, 1902 passing tests
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29866
s1n bacek: yeah i tried just copying that .sub, not doing really anything and that's how i got that get_bool error
bacek: hmm, range seems to have done something that resembles overriding the vtable get_bool method 03:05
bacek: okay, i've got the clone method defined properly, can you explain what a vtable method is? 03:09
particle1 s1n: read docs/pdds/pdd17_pmc.pod 03:19
s1n bacek: wow, that's a huge doc 03:23
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dalek r29867 | jkeenan++ | trunk: 03:30
: [configure] Merging 'parallel' branch into trunk. This:
: (a) Reduces the number of configuration step tests (t/steps/*.t) from 227 to
: 74 as planned in rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=56716.
: (b) Provides the first meaningful tests of the gen::* configuration step
: classes.
: (c) Provides two new functions in Parrot::Configure::Test,
: rerun_defaults_for_testing() and test_step_constructor_and_description(),
: which are useful in the steps tests.
: (d) Provides two new methods in Parrot::Configure, pcfreeze() and replenish(),
: which are also useful in the steps tests. They are wrappers around Storable
purl okay, dalek.
dalek : functions and are used to test the Parrot::Configure object multiple times
: within a file notwithstanding the fact that it is a singleton. 03:31
: (e) Improves POD and inline commentary within the config step tests.
03:31 Patterner joined
dalek diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29867 03:31
r29868 | jkeenan++ | parallel: 03:32
: Branch has been merged with trunk and is no longer needed at HEAD.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29868
r29869 | jkeenan++ | parallel-29266: 03:33
: Branch to which tag corresponded has been merged with trunk. Tag may be deleted.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29869 03:34
kid51 must sleep 03:42
purl $kid51->sleep(8 * 3600);
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dalek r29870 | allison++ | pdd25cx: 07:02
: [pdd25cx] Updating new code from merge to new exception syntax.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29870
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moritz does t/spec/S12-class/attributes.t fail for anybody else? 07:11
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bacek moritz: no. 07:13
moritz I get a segmentation fault 07:14
bacek moritz: bad luck :)
moritz I'm wondering if my checkout is seriously b0rked somehow
or perhaps my ~/.ccache 07:15
bacek moritz: looks like... Or maybe you are on some branch
moritz I'm not 07:16
bacek moritz: make realclean? 07:18
purl it has been said that make realclean is sometimes need in parrot to work against missing dependencies
moritz bacek: did that already
... multiple times ;)
bacek moritz: definitely bad luck :) 07:19
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dalek r29871 | fperrad++ | opengl4lua: 07:47
: experiment another way of OpenGL in Lua
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29871
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dalek r29872 | kjs++ | trunk: 10:23
: [pirc/new] update parser a bit based on revision of pdd19.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29872
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dalek r29873 | jkeenan++ | trunk: 11:33
: Skip 39 tests if OS is Sun or Solaris.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29873
r29874 | jkeenan++ | trunk: 11:38
: SKIP block for tests not yet passing on certain OSes.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29874 11:39
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dalek r29875 | kjs++ | trunk: 13:24
: [pirc/new] more updates based on recent revision of pdd19
: * removal of pasm-style registers (only symbolic now)
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29875
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mj41 Hi. I received mail "[svn:parrot] r29867 ... " from svn-commit-parrot@perl.org 10 times. Probably a loop or something. 15:24
moritz 10 times is pretty much ;) 15:26
cotto 10 is a little much, but I've also been seeing a lot of duplicates.
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donaldh ace. t/pmc/os.t is failing on _one_ of my _two_ Cygwin platforms. 16:10
mmm. different 'expected' output from Perl 5 stat() 16:12
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Infinoid donaldh: bug in some rev of cygwin perl? 16:14
donaldh Infinoid: I'm just tracking it down.
dalek r29876 | fperrad++ | trunk: 16:17
: [Lua]
: - give a change to run tests
: (lua.pbc is the only mandatory .pbc)
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29876
donaldh Infinoid: It looks like some rev of cygwin perl is behaving differently for print join( "\\n", stat("xpto") ), "\\n"; 16:20
In other words, the default conversion from a number to a string is behaving differently.
moritz donaldh: sounds like a testing bug 16:21
donaldh It's possible that one is compiled with different type sizes. 16:22
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donaldh I'll need to compare perl -V 16:22
moritz donaldh: btw if you want to get a commit bit for parrot you have to send all your helpful patches to RT, otherwise most of the developers never see them
donaldh: (and send a CLA)
donaldh moritz: thanks. will do.
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donaldh Okay. Converting the test to $stat = sprintf("%08x" x 13, stat('xpto')) fixes it. 16:24
moritz donaldh: send patch ;-) 16:25
donaldh I hear you! ;-) 16:26
Infinoid donaldh: are the numbers different, or is it a CRLF line ending thing? 16:32
donaldh The numbers are different. One comes back negative. 16:33
Infinoid awesome. I'd suggest "%08x "x13 though, with the space to make it clear where the numbers begin and end 16:35
donaldh instead of newlines? 16:36
Infinoid the sprintf() line you mentioned above has no newlines
maybe I misunderstood.
donaldh Sorry. Bad typing. Was sprintf("%08x\\n" x 13, ...
Infinoid oh. that works :)
donaldh++ 16:37
donaldh Can you believe I didn't even know about the x operator this morning:-0
moritz and already put to good use ;)
donaldh 10+ years of perl programming and never found it before.
Infinoid it comes in handy. sort of a poor man's hyperoperator 16:38
donaldh Well I found parrot has a repeat opcode and thought 'perl must do this'.
moritz wow. I only have about 4 years of perl experience
16:38 cxreg joined
moritz and I keep finding features now and then 16:38
dalek r29877 | kjs++ | trunk:
: [pirc/new] use flex' built-in line-number-track-keeping option instead of custom code to do that.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29877
donaldh Yeah, I read about the differences between Perl 5 and Perl 6 and found myself thinking 'wow, Perl 5 does that?' 16:39
moritz ;) 16:40
dalek r29878 | kjs++ | trunk: 16:45
: [pirc/new] rename TK_SYM_?REG to TK_?REG
: + remove update_location() function, as this is built-in in flex.
: + fix alignment a bit
: + change alias of TK_PARROT_OP into "parrot instruction" for better error message.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29878
r29879 | moritz++ | trunk: 17:03
: [rakudo] remove obsolete t/fetchspec, as of RT #57324
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29879
Tene So, I've recieved 11 copies so far of r29867 from the svn-to-mail list. 17:06
Anyone else getting that?
moritz Tene: mj41 reported ~10 copies 17:07
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kasei is there an easy way to debug a parser produced by mk_language_shell (i.e., where/why a parse is failing)? 17:31
particle the parse fails? hrmm 17:32
you want to add debugging to the parser, then
kasei ah, ok. there's none of that built into the produced parser?
particle look at the <panic: ...> rule 17:33
kasei i'm sure it's that i'm rather unfamiliar with the changes to perl6 regex/rules, but was hoping if there was an easier way...
will do. thanks.
particle like, token foo { 'foo' || <panic: foo not found> }
in general, you can use --target=parse to inspect your parse tree, but that's only if the parse succeeds
kasei right, that's my problem :) 17:34
particle figured. so that's where panic comes in handy
oops, should be <.panic: ...>
(leading dot)
kasei i'm not seeing that work with or without the dot... 17:35
particle can you nopaste your grammar? 17:36
nopaste?
purl i heard nopaste was at nopaste.snit.ch/ (ask TonyC for new channels) or rafb.net/paste or poundperl.pastebin.com/ or paste.scsys.co.uk/ or App::Nopaste or tools/dev/nopaste.pl
clunker3 pasta.test-smoke.org/ or paste.husk.org/ or nopaste.snit.ch:8001/ or rafb.net/paste or poundperl.pastebin.com/ or paste.scsys.co.uk/
kasei perhaps the parse is starting somewhere else...
particle put the panic rule in TOP 17:37
token TOP { <statement_block> [ $ || <panic: Syntax error> ] {*} }
or whatever
nopaste "kasei" at 128.113.228.11 pasted "grammar rule" (6 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/13705 17:40
kj you might want to look into that class of special characters 17:41
probably needs some escaping, like the "
and i think < and > need escaping too
kasei: remove them, and add them one by one (after removing all of them, or just putting in a simple word as a dummy, things should work 17:42
jonathan Gernally, all non-alpha have to be escaped or they're treated as meta-syntax. But I'm not sure if that rule applies within character classes... 17:43
kj oh, and IRI_REF in rule TOP should be writtten as <IRI_REF>
because otherwise it matches the string "IRI_REF"
instead of matching the rule (or token)
kasei hah! that was it.
kj what? :-)
kasei sorry :) in general, though, is there a way to introspect the current parse (remaining input, etc.)? 17:44
kj don't think so... but I'm no expert. 17:45
kasei ok, thanks.
kj but the solution was writing <IRI_REF> instead of IRI_REF? 17:46
kasei yeah
kj oki
particle kasei: you can put arbitrary pir in your parser
and you have access to the match object in the pir 17:47
kasei ok, that will help. will look into the details.
jonathan kasei: You put it in with {{ ...PIR... }} - note double curlies. 17:49
particle token foo { 'foo' {{ $P0 = match.'to'() \\n say $P0 }} || <.panic: Syntax error> }
convert the \\n to a literal newline
purl I don't know how to convert the \\n to a literal newline.
particle convert shut up to botspeak
purl I don't know how to convert shut up to botspeak.
kasei heh
another grammar question: what's the best way to encode three single quotes? I'm getting PGE parse errors for every variation I can think of. 18:16
(this is in a token rule)
moritz \\'\\'\\' perhaps?
kasei I get: unable to parse regex at line 53, near "{ \\\\'\\\\'\\\\' ("
same error for "'''", adding a space between the three \\', etc. 18:17
moritz did you try "'''" also?
in perl 6 that would work (both of them,, actually) 18:18
nopaste "kasei" at 128.113.228.11 pasted "Broken grammar (on token STRING_LITERAL_LONG1)" (68 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/13706 18:19
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particle try "\\'\\'\\'" 18:31
kasei i think i've figured it out. the error was misleading, and it looks like a syntax error later in the rule.
hmm... maybe not. and "\\'\\'\\'" doesn't seem to work, either. 18:34
cotto ping googletap.com 18:35
purl /sbin/ping returned an error.
cotto a really fast error, too 18:36
kasei ok, sorted it out. the error was misleading, and it was caused by unescaped quotes later on ('"' instead of '\\"'). 18:40
jhorwitz particle: ping 19:07
particle jhorwitz: pong 19:10
jhorwitz i was gonna commit a PERL6LIB impelmentation for 'require', but i just realized it uses '/' exclusively. parrot handles that ok on windows? 19:13
particle yes
like perl, parrot translates '/' to whatever the os wants 19:14
jhorwitz ok, good. still have an issue with drive letters though...
particle did you look at the perl 5 impl of perllib?
*perl5lib
jhorwitz no
though we don't have @INC, so it doesn't align too well with p5 right now 19:15
jhorwitz wonders what the equivalent is in perl6 19:16
moritz jhorwitz: it will probably have something like a module registry, because module names don't necessarily map to file names 19:17
dalek r29880 | coke++ | trunk: 19:18
: [docs]
: - fix spelling mistake
: - add RTs for several unimplemented features
: - add RTs for several newly deprecated features
: - Avoid deprecated features in code examples
: - use more q{'};
: - remove feature that was unimplemented AND deprecated
: - mention chip's desired feature about restricting 'foo = opcode' syntax.
: (and mention that it's not implemented)
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29880
jhorwitz moritz: i'm assuming we've already mapped to a file. :)
particle jhorwitz: commit it, i'll test it now
moritz jhorwitz: I don't think it'll be so easy 19:19
particle well, it's better than nothing, and required for mod_parrot. 19:20
moritz well, it'll probably be called @*INC 19:21
jhorwitz moritz: how so? i'm only doing this at the "require" level, and then only if you've "required" a path. it's just one piece of the puzzle.
right now rakudo's "us"e translates to a path and calls "require"
*use
moritz jhorwitz: ok, then I'm fine with it
jhorwitz: I just don't think it's a good long term solution 19:22
Tene jhorwitz: have you coordinated with pmichaud on this? he said he was going to work on this on the airplane today.
iirc.
jhorwitz Tene: he's working on require/PERL6LIB? i told him i was going to commit this at OSCON....
Tene Ah, perhaps I'm misremembering. 19:23
jonathan 02:27 <@pmichaud> generic planning note: my plan at the moment is to get standalone/precompiled modules working in Rakudo tomorrow while on the plane 19:24
02:27 <@pmichaud> this will involve changes to PCT, P6object, and rakudo
jhorwitz yes, that's unrelated
dalek r29881 | chromatic++ | trunk:
: [t] Ensured that the ICU configuration tests clean up all temporary directories
: (Andy Dougherty, RT #57386).
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29881
Tene Ah.
jhorwitz i believe that's so you can, for example, output PIR from the rakudo compiler and run it independently 19:25
moritz particle, pmichaud: #perl6-soc in 2 19:27
particle actually, it's to speed up the test suite
jhorwitz moritz: "use" is pretty useless right now so i see this as a stop-gap solution. it works, and we can tear it out later if needed.
particle among other things 19:28
moritz jhorwitz: ok, agree
jhorwitz cool
particle 'use' is way lower on the roadmap, so anything now is just a prototype and hacky 19:29
jhorwitz can attest to that ;-)
dalek r29882 | jhorwitz++ | trunk: 19:32
: [rakudo] 'require' should check paths in PERL6LIB
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29882
particle rebuilds parrot and rakudo 19:34
jonathan particle: Are you on Win32 at the mo?
particle yep
jonathan particle: Could you try, once your build is done, running S03-operators\\value_equivalence.t (IIRC) under the harness? 19:35
Well, fudge it and run the .rakudo. It was passing all tests that were not fudged for me last night.
But the harness reported "dubious".
moritz jonathan: it works fine here
jonathan moritz: Linux?
purl somebody said Linux was linux is linux by another name.
particle i'm currently desktop($work) laptop(building parrot), in online meeting, on phone call, listening to radio, and lunch.
moritz jonathan: yes
jonathan particle: OK, whenever you have time. :-) 19:36
jonathan isn't in a hurry.
moritz: You can add it to spectest_regression.data if you want, I guess...
moritz: Since this suggests it's not a problem with Rakudo itself. 19:37
moritz jonathan: ok, will do
jonathan moritz: It nudges us a little closer to 2,000. ;-) 19:41
dalek r29883 | particle++ | trunk: 19:43
: [rakudo] update svn:ignore on src/ops/
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29883
r29884 | particle++ | trunk:
: [rakudo] small refactor for clarity
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29884
particle realcleans parrot, due to all dubious results on spectest_regression 19:44
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jonathan particle: You're getting many of them? :-S 19:51
pmichaud particle: I will probably miss today's call 19:57
(I'm already on the plane) 19:58
my report is basically the same as #parrotsketch
dalek r29885 | moritz++ | trunk:
: [rakudo] added S03-operators/value_equivalence.t to spectest_regression.
: Also restored alphabetical order of files in spectest_regression.data
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29885
particle safe travels, pmichaud 19:59
jonathan: every single test returns status 5
from spectest_regression, that is
pmichaud the plane isn't supposed to depart for another 25 mins, but we're already boarded :-)
jonathan pmichaud: Have a good journey, and a great vacation. 20:00
particle calls in now
pmichaud I'll call in a second, after I've finished sync'ing mail and svn for the flight.
(and assuming I can)
particle btw "ocean sushi" in hilo (big island) is fabulous and cheap, if the kids eat sushi 20:01
pmichaud they love sushi
katie already says "yes, yes yes" 20:02
moritz
.oO( tell the kids one of the weird hackers said "hi" ;)
 20:03
particle :)
pmichaud oh, the flight is leaving early! wow!
everyone's on board already
particle sixperl says enjoy vacation
pmichaud okay, time to disconnect 20:07
Infinoid have a safe trip, pmichaud!
pmichaud see you all later
moritz bye
dalek r29886 | coke++ | trunk: 20:08
: [docs] add another RT for a newly deprecated item
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29886
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dalek r29887 | coke++ | trunk: 20:22
: [tcl]
: - s/'tcl_group'/''/ in preparation for the deprecation of this version of .HLL
: - convert some (broken) stub precompiled versions to stub runtime versions
: - cleanup some comments.
: - use more 'elements'
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29887
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dalek r29888 | coke++ | trunk: 20:55
: [t] update test name to reflect difference from identically named test
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29888
r29889 | coke++ | trunk: 21:15
: [tcl] Add empty stubs for most of the remaining builtins.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29889
Whiteknight wow, lots of files updating 21:36
dalek r29890 | Whiteknight++ | gsoc_pdd09: 21:40
: [gsoc_pdd09] update to trunk r29889
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29890
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Whiteknight how do you mark a test as "todo" or mark a test to be skipped? 21:52
I can never remember how to do it, and I can never find it in documentation anywhere
Infinoid its a tweak to the test's description 21:53
I think its just a TODO: prefix
skipped tests are different, you put them in a SKIP block in perl5 21:54
for parrot tests, todo often looks like: pir_output_is( <<'CODE', <<'OUT', 'error', todo => 'not yet implemented' );
you can grep/ack for these, they're everywhere in parrot's t/ :) 21:57
Whiteknight I'm trying to TODO a whole test file
t/op/gc.t exposes problems that I'm trying to ignore
Infinoid oh. would skip_all work?
use Parrot::Test skip_all => 'ongoing GC changes'; 21:58
Whiteknight i can try that
Infinoid it'd get them out of your way, at least.
Whiteknight I might want to keep them as TODO, in case they miraculously start passing
Infinoid I don't know of a way to do that for a whole test script at once, but you can tweak the individual tests to do this 21:59
Whiteknight okay, thanks. I'll play with it
okay, putting it all into a TODO: { } block seems to be working 22:00
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Infinoid great, glad to hear it. by the way, this is all documented in "perldoc Test::More" 22:19
Whiteknight Yeah, I was looking at that, and was having a hard time distilling the exact answers I was looking for 22:22
maybe I'm just dense
Infinoid you found the right answer :) 22:26
jonathan Infinoid: How's the packfile stuff going (if you're getting time to work on it, that is)? 22:31
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Infinoid jonathan: made some progress, not much time. partial introspection is there and working in pir 22:32
jonathan Nice! 22:33
Are you keeping the branch sync'd with trunk at all?
Infinoid yeah, I do a summary merge once in a while
jonathan Great.
Thanks for working on it!
Infinoid I need more time... :)
22:33 brettles joined
Infinoid I've worked on it, like, 1 or 2 days in the last month 22:33
jonathan Time. There's never *quite* enough of it... 22:35
Infinoid actually, it's proving pretty straight-forward to just wrap the code and data structures that are already in place
I was pleasantly surprised by that. 22:36
www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/view/br...packfile.t shows the bits which work so far 22:37
kasei to match bytes \\x00..\\x20 in a grammar rule, do I need to do something other than put that in a character class? is there syntax for matching bytes?
jonathan Infinoid: Looking good. :-) 22:47
Infinoid: The hard part, will be trying to replace the guts that use the packfile, to access it through the PMC interface in the appropriate places. 22:48
Infinoid yeah, and that also includes side tools like pdump 22:51
Limbic_Region salutations all
Infinoid I figure I'm going to learn a whole bunch of parrot internals along the way.
jonathan Sure
Hopefully I'll have some tuits to hack on it a bit with you too.
Infinoid I'm taking a week of vacation next month, and should have some decent parrot hacking time then... so hopefully it will move forward a bit 22:56
jonathan Nice.
jonathan is having away-from-computer vacation for a week at end of August. 22:57
22:58 Dfa-Dom joined
Infinoid "away-from-computer vacation"? dear god, why? 22:58
Infinoid boggles at the concept
22:59 Dfa-Dom left
jonathan Infinoid: I find I need to physically get away from things for a while to be able to relax properly. 23:17
Plus, it keeps the RSI at bay. 23:18
I've discovered I'm susceptible to both RSI and burnout, if I don't take such breaks.
kid51 RSI? 23:19
purl RSI is Repetitive strain injury you find information at en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repetitive_strain_injury
jonathan purl is useful?!?!
cotto don't expect it to happen regularly 23:20
Tene RSI sucks. 23:23
Repeatedly.
dalek r29891 | jkeenan++ | trunk: 23:24
: Responding to reports of failures of one test in
: rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=56716 and Smolder and smoke
: tests. Relaxing test to look for definedness of result, rather than matching
: a particular result string.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=29891
jonathan Tene: Yes. :-| Actually, the thing that really seemed to help mine, was getting one of those split keyboards. 23:35
Tene I used to use two keyboards, one on each side of me. That was very comfortable. 23:36
Infinoid I get RSI from pulling too many ropes when sailing, but not from typing, strangely. 23:37
as for burnout... changing projects a lot seems to help for that
...and changing languages 23:38
jonathan Yes, agree, though I seem to have got myself involved in a somewhat...long running...one that probably doesn't want to lose me. ;-)
Changing languages only bothers me if I've had to deal with a hateful language. 23:39
Infinoid after a few years of fixing other people's broken code and bad designs, C has become such a language for me. :(
jonathan That sounds understandable.
The only project I ever write C for these days is Parro.t 23:40
*Parrot
Infinoid well, at least it has a nice runtime environment 23:41
(Parrot C code does, I mean)
jonathan Yes, it's not so bad. 23:42
There are some hateful areas of the Parrot codebase (IMCC), though.
Infinoid IMCC is a no-go area for me. I've tracked a couple of bugs into the borders of IMCC, and then ran around trying to figure things out and eventually just gave up. 23:43
sailboat race & 23:45
cotto is IMCC going to be phased out in favor of pirc, or is that still up in the air depending on which side gets more tuits? 23:47
Tene One plan is to go straight from POST to PBC, iirc. 23:48
jonathan Yeah, that's a plan too.
I think nobody really wants to spend tuits trying to refactor IMCC into something better, but there aren't currently, it seems, enough tuits spare to go into pirc or POST -> PBC. 23:49
Though it's generally agreed that we want to move away from IMCC eventually. 23:51
cotto by Christmas?
purl When Perl 6 is out, every day will be like Christmas !
Tene Maybe someone needs to commit something that breaks IMCC to persuade people to reallocate their tuits.
cotto That's easy, although not in the way you meant it. 23:52
jonathan Thing is, in my experience, fixing minor things in IMCC, or adding minor things to it, isn't sufficiently long job to make it easier to go and finish PIRC or do POST -> PBC instead. 23:53
cotto so someone needs to find a major blocker that will necessitate either a massive refactoring or IMCC or a new compiler 23:54
sounds like a good RT: "IMCC isn't sufficiently broken"
jonathan :-P 23:55
cotto s/or IMCC/of IMCC/

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