www.parrotcode.org | Last Release: 0.7.0 "Severe Macaw"
Set by moderator on 3 September 2008.
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kid51 Can anyone provide an update as to whether the release had taken place? Or if it's safe to commit to trunk? 00:23
Tene I think it's pmichaud's release this time.
pmichaud the release has not taken place. It's safe to commit to trunk as long as everything still builds.
things are a bit hectic around the house now (kids), I'll probably start the release in about 90 minutes or so. 00:24
kid51 k
pmichaud I'll send email when it's safe to start committing.
(and irc message)
dalek r31193 | jkeenan++ | nosmartlink: 00:27
: Delete commented-out code.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31193
kid51 I see that svn.perl.org is still misbehaving. It failed to resolve on my Linux box after that commit.
What a f**king nuisance 00:28
It never gets fixed; it merely disappears for a while.
Whiteknight yeah, I just start commiting fixes to other projects
Tene I just queue everything up in git and then try to push it in the background a few times. IF it doesn't work, I leave it for a while and keep queueing up commits. 00:29
Whiteknight: I haven't seen you touch the GC branch in a while. What's the status there?
Whiteknight I'm partly taking a break from it to prevent overload. I've got a relatively large change in there that I would like to merge back into trunk eventually 00:30
Tene Okay. Thanks. :)
Avoiding overload is very good.
Whiteknight I haven't forgotten, just spreading my dirt around the yard 00:31
Tene Orite, namespaces in cardinal. I need to do that tonight.
Tene drives home.
dalek r31194 | jkeenan++ | nosmartlink: 00:34
: Delete reference in inline comment to smartlinks. We're not implementing them
: now.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31194
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pmichaud afk for a bit, then back to start on the release. 01:47
Whiteknight pmichaud++ 01:48
Tene Quick, break the build!
Whiteknight can do it in only one commit 01:49
pmichaud msg jonathan take a look at www.pmichaud.com/perl6/references.txt when you get a chance (first cut/draft) 02:08
purl Message for jonathan stored.
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dalek r31195 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 03:18
: More NEWS updates.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31195
pmichaud Tene: you're not listed in RESPONSIBLE_PARTIES for Cardinal... should you be? 03:28
(same for anyone else who thinks he/she should be in RESPONSIBLE_PARTIES) 03:30
dalek r31196 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 03:31
: Update my information in CREDITS.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31196
pmichaud last call for any updates, changes, or blockers before I cut the release (I'm running make fulltest now) 03:44
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Ontolog Is PIR a superset of PASM? 03:44
pmichaud for the most part, yes 03:46
Ontolog so what should I do? 03:49
should I first learn pasm then pir?
or just learn pir? 03:50
pmichaud no, I suggest going straight to PIR
Ontolog ok
is there a vim syntax file for pir code? 03:55
pmichaud I think so ... look in the editors/ subdir
Ontolog S0 = "He's pining for the fjords.\\n" gives me an error: error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected REG ('S0') 03:57
pmichaud use $S0 03:58
.sub 'main'
$S0 = "He's pining ..."
say $S0
Ontolog holy shit
purl I like American music.
Ontolog ok
pmichaud .end
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Ontolog pmichaud: S0 and $S0 are different though 04:05
pmichaud: according to the docs, S0 should also work, and should be the literal S0 register
pmichaud the docs are a little out of date there. 04:06
for one, we really don't have "literal S0 registers" anymore
Ontolog really?? 04:07
purl wiggles her butt
Ontolog ę€Žä¹ˆåÆčƒ½ļ¼Ÿļ¼Ÿ
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Ontolog so why even use the format $XN, why not just have any name $foo 04:08
$foo = "string" will internally set to the first available S register 04:09
pmichaud we still need to know the type of the register (P, S, I, N)
Ontolog the type of the r-value can't determine that? 04:10
pmichaud $S0 is a string register, but it's not necessarily register 0
Ontolog i know that much
pmichaud the type of the r-value can't determine that, because both set $S0, 'string' and set $P0, 'string' are valid opcodes
Ontolog i see
04:11 JJ joined
pmichaud one can define symbols using .local, hwoever 04:11
.local string foo
foo = 'string'
my test build finished... I gotta focus on the release again :-|
Ontolog i see, kick that releases ass 04:12
dalek r31197 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 04:16
: Updates for 0.7.1 release.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31197
Ontolog error:imcc:syntax error, unexpected PARROT_OP ('mod')? 04:22
no mod? but some docs here say mod is good
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pmichaud mod exists, I think 04:26
what does the line look like ?
Ontolog if mod n, 2 goto isOdd 04:28
I have also tried "n mod 2"
pmichaud can't put expressions other than relational ops into an if
needs to be 04:29
$I0 = mod n, 2
if $I0 goto isOdd
Ontolog i see 04:30
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Ontolog unexpected concat?? print $S0 . "\\n" 04:34
pmichaud print $S0
print "\\n"
this is like an assembly language :-) 04:35
no complex expressions in statements
can also do
say $S0
which adds the \\n for you
Ontolog i see
yes i'm not used to doing asm
Tene pmichaud: I definitely should be.
Ontolog only played with it before
pmichaud Tene: if you can update CREDITS quickly I think I can get it into this release 04:36
otherwise it'll wait for next one
Tene I'll do it now.
That's in CREDITS? 04:38
pmichaud oh, sorry
RESPONSIBLE_PARTIES
Tene Oh.
Committing. 04:40
pmichaud tnx
Tene np
dalek r31198 | tene++ | trunk: 04:41
: Add myself to RESPONSIBLE_PARTIES for Cardinal.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31198
PerlJam What timezone is the release in? :) 04:49
pmichaud dunno. we'll call it PDT 04:50
"make fulltest" takes a real long time, though.
PerlJam I have no idea what's new in this release except for the rakudo stuff. 04:52
pmichaud PerlJam: see NEWS :-) 04:53
Tene cardinal got a lot of attention. 04:54
PerlJam let me "git svn rebase" and check it out.
pmichaud as far as rakudo is concerned, 1100 new passing spectests
PerlJam Tene: really? That's excellent
pmichaud yes, cardinal is looking good.
Tene Parsing is still very slow.
pmichaud I'm working on that part :-) 04:55
Tene :)
PerlJam pm: hacking the LTM in for the next release? :)
s/the/a/ I guess
pmichaud LTM is slated for november release, I think. 04:56
approx 2 months
protoregexes and pge refactors come first
PerlJam oh, that's right you updated the roadmap with timeline-ish info
PerlJam looks there too
pmichaud that, plus it's also in the timeline for my next grant
PerlJam What's this D1 D2 D3 stuff on the milestones? (perl6/ROADMAP) 04:59
pmichaud deliverable 1, deliverable 2, etc. 05:01
PerlJam oh
pmichaud that comes from the grant proposal
it was easier to name them M1, M2, D1, D2, etc.
PerlJam yeah, M1 I got, but was blocking on what the D meant in D1
Looks like christmas will be either a little late this year if LTM isn't happening until November 05:03
s/either//
pmichaud oh, I don't know about that. it's not as if we won't be doing other things in parallel
and the way to test LTM is to be running things on STD.pm itself
but, we shall see. I didn't get nearly as much done in August as I had hoped. 05:04
PerlJam Still. If the deadline is at time X, you want to be done a time X - delta so you have that delta to shake the bugs out.
pmichaud oh, if you're looking for *that* sort of Xmas, then yes, probably not 2008.
I doubt Parrot would be ready by then, even. 05:05
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PerlJam Well, I have multiple christmases in my head. The two I think about are perl6-alpha and perl6-production. I was hoping the former would be readyish this year (things looked so promising earlier in the year) 05:06
pmichaud well, 'alpha' to me implies "some bugs still not shaken out" 05:07
PerlJam I guess that's true. 05:08
Anyway, it's nice to have major features substantially implemented. I'm happy modulo the bizarro error messages I get from perl6 :) 05:09
pmichaud well, the next phase is to improve the bizarro error messages, especially in parsing and runtime error location
i.e., the PGE refactor is specifically to make it possible for us to say "error at foo.pl line 10" instead of some mythical EVAL_1 structure 05:10
dalek r31199 | pmichaud++ | RELEASE_0_7_1: 05:19
: tagged release 0.7.1
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31199
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Ontolog how do I do IO in PIR? 05:36
I want to open a file and read from it
and I want to create a memory resident file 05:37
moderator www.parrotcode.org/ | Last release: 0.7.1 "Manu Aloha" 05:41
pmichaud release is cut, feel free to commit against trunk 05:41
thanks to everyone for their help 05:42
Ontolog cool, thank you, how about that IO?
pmichaud I really don't know the answer, alas.
open a file and read from it --- there are a few examples lying about
but "memory resident file" I don't know anything about.
(and I'm still not completely done with release yet -- just have finished the part where others might need to refrain from committing to trunk) 05:43
dalek pmichaud@pobox.com | Parrot: 05:44
link: www.perlfoundation.org/parrot/index.cgi?parrot
Ontolog i see, thx 05:45
i'll poke around
man the docs need some improvement if parrot is going to be successful 05:46
but all that knowledge is stuck in you parrot developer's heads
Tene Ontolog: feel free to file bug reports about the docs. that would really help quite a bit. 06:06
cotto_home Ontolog, IO is incomplete afaict. After MMD, it's the next milestone to be implemented. 06:07
Ontolog I just want to do some basics about opening, reading / writing files 06:08
which must be implemented if anything at all is to work yes?
nopaste "Ontolog" at 59.37.36.178 pasted "get_string() not implemented in class 'ParrotIO' current instr.: 'main' pc 6 (iotest.pir:6)" (7 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/14074
cotto_home Ontolog, that much seems to work. Look at t/pmc/parrotio.t for some example code. 06:09
kid51++ #+1cke+ k1ll3r 06:14
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Ontolog cotto_home: only one of those tests pass, the rest fail 06:20
i'll poke around other code to see what it does 06:21
cotto_home I'd emphasize the passing test. ;) 06:40
dalek r31200 | cotto++ | trunk: 06:41
: [imcc] use dynamic buffer to process sub params, fixing #58866
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31200
cotto_home svn.perl.org--
Ontolog the passing test just makes a new ParrotIO object 06:49
actually doing anything with the object results in failure
cotto_home I guess that's why it's the next milestone. 06:57
let's see if svn.perl.org is still stupid 07:03
dalek r31201 | cotto++ | trunk: 07:04
: [scheduler] add support for Parrot_usleep
: patch courtesy Infinoid++
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31201
cotto_home stupid == very yes 07:05
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moritz who's in charge of that server? 07:08
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dalek r31202 | allison++ | pdd27mmd: 07:10
: [pdd27mmd] More meaningful exception messages for BigInt.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31202
07:11 iblechbot joined
moritz in the pdd27mmd branch 'make' still segfaults for languages/perl6/ 07:19
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moritz msg pmichaud in CREDITS you're listed as rakudo "pumpking", the usual term in perl world is "pumpkin". Is that an intended pun, or just a typo? ;-) 07:50
purl Message for pmichaud stored.
mberends moritz: the pumpkin was the mascot/token/baton, pumpking the human holding it. see perldoc perlhist 07:53
moritz mberends: oh, I confused that. thanks 07:55
dalek r31203 | allison++ | pdd27mmd: 08:39
: [pdd27mmd] A few fixes for Integer PMC's autopromotion code, but it's creaking
: with old age.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31203
r31204 | moritz++ | trunk: 08:48
: [rakudo] implement 2-param form of Str.comb, Ontolog++
: Patch courtesy by Chris Davaz <cdavaz at gmail dot com>
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31204
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moritz cotto_home: has a test been added for RT #58866? 10:00
10:01 baest joined
Ontolog what does the underscore in :multi(_) mean? 10:20
moritz one argument of any type
Ontolog i searched the code for :multi('Block') but found no such string
I see you are already accepting a regex as an argument but you are using :multi(_)
which I'm not sure is appropriate for the split implementation 10:21
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moritz in theory it should work have both :multi('String') and a :multi(_), and calling it with a Str argument then would do the right thing 10:21
but I don't know if it's that simple 10:22
Ontolog if we want to ask questions like this which mailing list do we use? 10:23
moritz perl6-compiler or parrot-porters 10:24
the first one is Perl 6 specific, the latter more parrot centric
Ontolog i see, i'm already subscribed to the former so i'll use that ;-)
also this is having to do with Perl
moritz aye
Ontolog moritz: looking at some other code I think we can directly put a Perl6Regex in as the type, no? For example: ./builtins/system.pir:.sub 'run' :multi(Perl6Str) 10:30
moritz Ontolog: just try it, I don't know 10:31
Ontolog but your suppose to know everything! ;-)
at least, your the only one who answers questions in these rooms
jonathan Ontolog: Everything is just a Sub at the moment, we aren't yet creating them as different types.
Ontolog jonathan: so how do we implement the multi methods effectively? 10:32
moritz jonathan: we're talking about implementing Str.split(/regex/)
Ontolog yes, if we don't use :multi(_) then can we do multi(Perl6Regex) ? 10:33
i only see a couple lines about Perl6Regex:
one is ./parser/quote_expression.pir: p6regex = get_root_global ['parrot';'PGE::Perl6Regex'], 'regex'
and the other is ./parser/actions.pm: :compiler('PGE::Perl6Regex'),
I'm not sure if this allows me to declare Perl6Regex as a type in :multi() but I'll try it :p 10:34
jonathan Ontolog: Well, two things. First is, Perl 6 MMD works based upon signature objects. The plan is that we will write Perl 6 subs/methods in a prelude, but then have a way of inlining PIR. Then multis will end up using the Perl6MultiSub PMC. The second is that we need to start creating or reblessing Parrot subs into the correct types.
Perl6Regex there is the class implementing the compiler. 10:35
Not the type of the compiled output. So that won't work, I'm afraid.
I'd have expected you'd be able to write 'Sub' in the multi to match some code-ish thing, and 'String' in the other one.
Since I don't think there is a split variant that takes a block. 10:36
moritz hands the delegation scepter on to jonathan and goes to buy some food
jonathan Then later we can fix it up to be Regex.
Nooo...responsibility scares me!
Ontolog wow I understood about 5% of what you just said :p
MMD? 10:37
purl MMD is multi-method dispatch
Ontolog ohh
thanks purl
signature objects?
purl signature objects are the parameter list.
Ontolog prelude?
what do you mean by prelude? 10:38
jonathan Prelude = the built-ins 10:39
But the idea is we'll compile in two steps. First, a very basic Perl 6 compiler with very few builtins. And then we use that to compile the prelude (which means we can write builtins in Perl 6), and then bundle them together. 10:40
Ontolog ok i understand now
so are we wasting our time writing builtins in pir?
jonathan Not if you want stuff to work now, and actually in many cases (and certianly in the first place) the prelude will have Perl 6 subs and methods, but with PIR inlined. 10:41
Sometimes that's the only easy way to get at Parrot functionality.
Further, if we've got something in PIR that works, then it's just a case of translating it into Perl 6 for those that we can, rather than having to figure out how to write it from scratch again. 10:42
Ontolog isn't there a speed advantage to keeping all the builtins written in pir?
jonathan Potentially yes, which may be another reason not to re-write some into Perl 6. 10:44
Ontolog also, when does this 'very basic Perl 6 compiler' finish? what needs to be finished? 10:45
jonathan Well, really it's more a case of deciding what it will contain.
And then getting the two-stage compile in place.
Ontolog i see so we still don't know exactly what we need yet
so in the meantime I use :multi(Sub) is that right? 10:46
jonathan Isn't the first parameter to split, or the invocant, the string that is being split?
Ontolog the invocant i sure 10:47
jonathan If it's a method, then you need to have probably :multi(_, 'Sub')
No point to constraint the type of the invocant, but I'm pretty sure it counts.
(As in, you need to mention it inside the :multi(...)
Ontolog i just worked on some code where it didn't have that kind of signature
hmm 10:48
jonathan Oh.
Ontolog .sub comb :method :multi(_)
"self" is the object
which is implicitly defined
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jonathan I'm not sure that means you can get away with adding a _ for it in the :multi 10:50
Ontolog hm, i should tell moritz then ;)
so the object itself should definitely appear in the :multi(_) ? 10:51
xiaoyafeng: hey are you in China?
jonathan I remember writing code in actions.pm before switching to using Perl6MultiSub, where we explicitly added an extra _ at the start.
(For methods.) 10:52
So I'm pretty sure it should.
Ontolog interesting.... i should play around with things and see what happens; anyway time to go home, ttyl 10:53
jonathan ok 10:55
happy playing :-) 10:56
masak Ontolog++ # playing with Rakudo
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dalek r31205 | fperrad++ | trunk: 11:29
: [PLATFORM]
: - update for MinGW gcc 3.4.5
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31205
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dalek r31206 | jkeenan++ | trunk: 12:21
: Merge nosmartlink branch into trunk per
: rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=58742. Eliminates
: nonfunctioning smartlink code, thereby preparing the way for a fresh start.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31206
r31207 | jkeenan++ | nosmartlink: 12:24
: Branch has been merged into trunk and is no longer needed at HEAD.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31207
szbalint kid51++ 12:25
kid51 szbalint: Thanks for your help -- even though it led to eliminating code rather than writing code. 12:28
Once I write the RT for the new spec, I hope you can take part, as you understand the issues (particularly better than me). 12:29
kid51 goes to $job 12:30
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dalek r31208 | cotto++ | trunk: 13:24
: [imcc] add test for #58866
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31208
r31209 | allison++ | pdd27mmd: 13:38
: [pdd27mmd] Eliminate more morphing vtable functions and multis from BigInt.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31209
pmichaud good morning 13:57
moritz good localtime() 13:59
pmichaud (pumpkin) I'm not a gourd. :-)
but thanks for checking on me :-) 14:00
moritz ;) 14:01
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dalek r31210 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 14:06
: Update release_manager_guide.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31210
Ontolog Can I do this kind of comparison in parrot? $S0 == '' or is it only numeric? 14:23
jonathan In PIR, I believe that will do a string comparrison.
pmichaud it's a string comparison, yes. 14:24
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dalek r31211 | pmichaud++ | trunk: 14:27
: [rakudo]: spectest-progress.csv update: 165 files, 3377 passing tests
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31211
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pmichaud jonathan: ping 15:04
jonathan pmichaud: pong 15:07
Didn't get to glance at your proposal yet, I'm afraid. 15:08
Ontolog what does :lex do?
pmichaud that's not my ping :-)
15:08 Theory joined
pmichaud quick question: sub max($a, $b, $c) { ... } currently generates .sub 'max' :multi() .... is that correct? 15:09
sorry
multi sub max($a, $b, $c) { ... } currently generates ...
jonathan Yes
pmichaud I would've expected :multi(_,_,_)
jonathan Because the info comes from the Signature object now.
We could do that, but since we never hit Parrot's dispatch algorithm, which looks at that... 15:10
Or at lesat, I don't *think* we do.
pmichaud what about PIR code that comes from somewhere other than Rakudo?
jonathan If we are doing so, that is easily enough fixed to do what you suggest.
In what sense?
pmichaud like, from PGE
jonathan OK, this only works if you have a Perl6MultiSub. 15:11
pmichaud okay.
jonathan And have all the subs in that.
And all the subs have signatures.
Will PGE need multi-dispatch?
pmichaud definitely, since all of the regexes are multimethods.
jonathan Are now or will be? 15:12
pmichaud will be.
jonathan OK, if you want to use the Perl 6 dispatch semantics, then they'll want signature objects.
And to be in a Perl6MultiSub. 15:13
pmichaud I'm wondering what API we'll have to do that :-(
but that's not a big deal.
all of this comes from RT #58948, which appears to expose a problem with the Perl 6 mmd
jonathan Very possible - I am aware of at least a couple of bugs.
pmichaud I'll update my last comment to indicate that :multi() is in fact correct.
jonathan It passed all of spectest regression that was already passing, and a bit more than that. That doesn't mean it's perfect. 15:14
pmichaud okay, thanks. That answered my question -- I didn't want to get too far in talking about :multi. 15:16
The fact that Rakudo has a totally different multi dispatch interface than the rest of Parrot is likely to cause us some difficulties, though -- if only in explanation.
I just got through writing a message to p6c about :multi on the builtins that goes against this :-) 15:17
(I'm not saying what we're doing is wrong, just that it's likely to get difficult.)
jonathan I do struggle to see a way to convey the type info, along with both type and refinements, all in the :multi(...) 15:18
I'm not being deliberately awkward. ;-)
I agree with what you're saying, though. 15:19
pmichaud what do you mean by 'refinements'?
(if now is not a convenient time for discussion, we can save it for your rakudo day tomorrow)
(none of this is urgent)
(and I'll have to leave in a few minutes anyway) 15:20
(and my parentheses keys are being overused)
(((but at least this isn't #lisp)))
jonathan subset ... 15:21
Sorry, I should try and use Perl 6 terminology rather than academic. :-)
pmichaud I don't think that subset declarations should belong in :multi(...), no
jonathan Yes, can discuss more tomorrow.
Right. You could argue that we put type ones in there and refinements elsewhere.
But having half the info in one place and half in another didn't really appeal to me.
Especially since we need introspectable signatures too. 15:22
s/too/anyway/
pmichaud how about half in one place and all in the other? ;-)
anyway, I've figured out the problem with #58948 --- the 'max' function being declared conflicts with a builtin.
15:23 peepsalot joined
jonathan Ah. 15:23
Iff we need that to make code gen in say, PGE, or writing builtins, saner, I could be sold on that.
Built-ins will still want siggies anyway. 15:24
pmichaud I don't think it'll be an issue for most builtins, they'll be Perl 6
jonathan Yes.
Once we can write the Perl 6 prelude. :-)
pmichaud that's likely to happen soonish
jonathan w00t
pmichaud but I really want to get lists fixed first, those are being real blockers for some
jonathan laziness? Or just flattening etc stuff? 15:25
pmichaud flattening, etc stuff
jonathan ok
pmichaud but for that I need to know how we're going to handle containers, thus the references.txt document I wrote yesterday :-)
jonathan OK
pmichaud but it can wait until tomorrow :-)
jonathan I will read it later today if I get chance, if not tomorrow for certain.
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pmichaud okay. 15:27
jonathan Still having travel nightmares. 15:28
15:34 johbar joined
pmichaud makes me glad I didn't try to make it :-) 15:35
15:35 AndyA joined
jonathan In Soviet Russia, the vacation takes you. 15:38
nopaste "NotFound" at 213.96.228.50 pasted "Spaghetti with parrot's sauce" (22 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/14088 15:39
moritz OMG 15:40
NotFound This is a test of a toy Basic interpreter I'm writing. 15:41
cotto_work we're not enabling that kind of code, are we?
NotFound cotto_work: I am. 15:42
cotto_work out. nao.
do not want. 15:43
purl do not want is at www.mgroves.com/images/do_not_want_star_wars.jpg
jonathan goto with line numbers...makes me feel like a kid again! 15:44
moritz hey, newer basic versions did support all ususal control structures, no need for line numbers and goto
NotFound I like 80' basics
cotto_work I suppose if COBOL.net exists, the same sort of thing is likely to be inflicted on Parrot. ;) 15:46
jonathan The first Basic version I wrote in was on the BBC Micro. 15:47
Line numbers only, no labels. :-)
IIRC
NotFound I'll put the interpreter in examples in afe wdays. You've been warned ;) 15:48
Did you like the name 'pirric'?
cotto_work the name very much fits the code 15:51
even if you win, you lose
was that intentional?
15:52 AndyA_ joined
NotFound Sort of. Maybe the intention is to show that victory against old style code is never full ;) 15:53
More seriously, there are lots of people in the world that knows this style of Basic, and no other programming language. 15:55
moritz how sad 15:56
NotFound I like the idea of letting that people play with parrot. 15:57
PacoLinux NotFound: in examples or in languages ?
NotFound PacoLinux: in examples. Maybe later, if it becomes more complet, can be moved. 15:58
PacoLinux NotFound: seems funny, now my children can play with parrot :) 16:00
NotFound "Even a child can use parrot", good promotional ;) 16:01
PacoLinux hehehe 16:02
cotto_work "Even a cat can use Parrot." better promotional
davidfetter suffers from cognitive dissonance while looking at parrotcode.org 16:05
particle1 NotFound: you should do LOGO instead 16:12
NotFound particle: I don't have experience with Logo, an even less with writing Logo interpreters. 16:13
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pmichaud I CAN PLAYZ WITH PARROT? 16:29
diakopter basement cat eatz parrotz
moritz hands up, who of you ever used the reset() builtin from perl 5? 16:30
(other then to test it, perhaps)
PerlJam moritz: I've used it once I think. 16:31
moritz: but that was like 1992 or 1993 or something when perl 4 was all the rage. :-)
moritz PerlJam: ;) 16:32
PerlJam (I've never used reset in perl 5)
pmichaud I used it once or twice. 16:38
I don't remember if I used it in perl 5, though.
jonathan I can't even remember what it does... 16:39
PerlJam jonathan: it nukes all package vars that start with a given set of letters 16:40
moritz which is a funny thing to do, if you ask me ;) 16:42
PerlJam It was useful at one time I'm sure. 16:44
moritz probably before the invention of 'my' variables
PerlJam definitely 16:45
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dalek r31212 | chromatic++ | trunk: 17:04
: [config] Added dependency for parrot-config on pbc_to_exe; this fixes a
: parallel make problem when building parrot-config.
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31212
17:06 AndyA joined 17:07 ambs left
dalek r31213 | kjs++ | trunk: 17:18
: [DEPRECATED] add deprecations of various pir directives (replacements)
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31213
r31214 | kjs++ | trunk: 17:20
: [RESPONSIBLE_PARTIES] add myself as maintainer of compilers/pirc (more or less assuming that *some* day, it will actually be used).
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31214 17:21
particle kj: do you have a pirc branch, or patch that needs looking at? 17:23
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cotto_work I thought all kj's pirc work was in compilers/pirc 18:08
particle perhaps it is, but i thought there was something that needed platform testing 18:13
don't know if it was committed to trunk or branch, or submitted as patch 18:14
moritz particle: I think compilers/pirc/new/ needed platform testing
particle: but there's no Makefile in there, so you have to build it manually 18:15
particle ah, thanks
japhb pmichaud: is there a status or plan doc for changes to PGE? 18:23
japhb wonders if purl knows ...
purl, PGE?
purl PGE is the Parser Grammar Engine
japhb purl, PGE status? 18:24
purl japhb: i haven't a clue
particle japhb: what changes? anything specific? 18:27
japhb particle: proto, LTM
And STD parsing ftw
particle see rakudo's roadmap 18:28
japhb purl, rakudo roadmap?
purl i heard rakudo roadmap was svn.perl.org/parrot/trunk/languages...l6/ROADMAP
japhb Hmmm, does "Sub-milestones - each is 1 calendar month" refer to the M's or the D's? 18:29
What does D even stand for, for that matter? I'm assuming M is either 'milestone' or 'month', but it's not clear which. 18:31
Oh wait, M = month, D = day, based on one day per week funding? 18:32
cotto_work I think Milestone and Deliverable
japhb cotto_work: Ah, OK. 18:33
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cotto_work That should be added that to the file. Someone else was asking that earlier. 18:33
particle it stands for M, which is milestone 18:34
D = deliverable
see patrick's grant at perlfoundation.org
japhb Although then there's a little renumbering that must be done, because one line has two D's, three places have two lines with the same D, and one line has no D
particle it could be more descriptive, i agree
moritz (estimate for start: christmas) - wtf? 18:36
no christmas before module versioning!
japhb Also, it looks like PGE work is lazily evaluated ... so it's not clear when it will actually be scheduled. 18:37
NoPresentsForYou
(obReferenceToShowINeverWatched) 18:38
moritz we clearly need more competent rakudo hackers 18:39
cotto_work I can't help you any with "competent" 18:40
moritz oh come on 18:41
that's no excuse ;)
particle i'll be back in the mix soon 18:43
moritz yay, particle++ 18:44
jonathan However, to counteract particle being back in the mix, I'll be out of it soon. 18:56
moritz yes, I know 18:57
cotto_work ENOGRANT?
moritz but not for all that long, right?
jonathan ~1 month.
EHOLIDAY
I expect after a month's "relaxing" (as in, doing something different to what I usually am doing each day), I'll come back with plenty of energy for Rakudo. 18:58
Final pre-vacation Rakudo day tomorrow. 18:59
Tene So, there was that big grant recently. Has there been any word on what TPF wants to fund with it? 19:00
moritz Tene: I think that the parrot foundation was a response to that 19:01
particle no, not at all, moritz
parrot foundation took over the remaining unpaid funds from nlnet grant, about $19k
moritz particle: no? I thought that TPF wasn't flexible enough to distribute the money as wished?
particle ian hague donated $200k to tpf, half for the organization, half for perl 6 development 19:02
moritz right
particle patrick has applied for money from that grant, and ruoso has gotten some for smop
there have been no other applications
i'll probably submit one soon
jonathan I'm working on one for post-vacation.
particle jonathan++
PerlJam moritz: the existing grants process isn't flexible enough for the $200K, so there's a new process.
jonathan One of my $DAYJOBs is give me a pretty big hours cut. 19:03
particle i drop from 45 to 20 hours on 1 oct
Tene Any indication what kind of work they want to fund with it?
particle things that get us closer to a working perl 6 implementation
PerlJam Even with so few grant proposals, I think that $100K will disappear far too quickly. 19:05
Tene It's good for the gran tmoney to be spent quickly, as long as it's still funding the same quantity of work. 19:06
particle right 19:07
and the $100k for tpf is to be used to secure more grants
jonathan As I understand it, the other chunk was for TPF to have resources to look for more funding on top of this.
SNAP! 19:08
moritz aye
PerlJam step 0: convince a large government organization that perl 6 is critical to national security (or some other Important Topic) and that it must be funded. step 1: keep that LGO from sticking their fingers into the mix, step 2: ship it! :) 19:10
Tene Hmm... pynie hasn't been getting any attention for a while. Maybe I should adopt it.
I'm getting impatient for good network access from parrot. I should look at what needs to be done for the IO milestone. 19:19
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cotto_work Tene, you're not alone: irclog.perlgeek.de/parrot/2008-09-17#i_572522 20:04
20:06 johbar joined
particle "hey, look, i can juggle four balls!" "that's nice, can you do five?" 20:06
TimToady phone? 20:07
purl phone is, like, 1/4"
particle aha, thanks
TimToady phono?
purl phono is RCA.
particle phony? 20:11
purl phony is used to force side actions with no associated file or a pony you don't want
dalek r31215 | julianalbo++ | trunk: 20:32
: add Result.field_count method to Mysql example module
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31215
r31216 | julianalbo++ | trunk: 21:18
: add Parrot_get_runtime_path function as STRING * variant of char * Parrot_get_runtime_prefix to simplify usages
diff: www.parrotvm.org/svn/parrot/revision?rev=31216
cotto_work NotFound, it strikes me as confusing to have two functions which differ only by the format of the string they return be called Parrot_get_runtime_prefix and Parrot_get_runtime_path 21:25
Looking at both names, it's not at all obvious which returns a STRING* vs. a char*. 21:26
NotFound cotto_work: I was tempted to just kill the char * function, but fear complains about not doing a deprecation cycle. 21:27
cotto_work I'd just change the return type of the function. It's used rarely enough that I can't picture it causing any problems. 21:28
NotFound 'prefix' looks inadequate for me.
cotto_work Since it's marked PARROT_API, you should probably go to the list, though.
jonathan Parrot API tends to suggest a dynamic extension may use it, like dynpmc or dynop. 21:29
cotto_work jonathan, not some external project that depends on Parrot? 21:30
jonathan cotto_work: Yes, that too.
cotto_work ok
jonathan Sorry, what I meant to say was, that this has been motive for making various things be PARROT_API.
NotFound PARROT_API currently has more impacts. For example, that it has C linkage even if parrot is builded with C++. 21:31
jonathan Really? 21:32
purl wiggles her butt
jonathan I guess though maybe that makes sense.
NotFound jonathan: sure, I wrote it.
jonathan :-) 21:33
Yes, I thought "what" at first, then realized that it's needed for embedding from C to work. :-)
NotFound And to allow extensiones to be compiled in C and linked with a parrot C++ builded, and vice versa. 21:34
jonathan Aye. 21:35
NotFound cotto_work: A message to the list, or a [RFC] ticket? 21:38
cotto_work either, as long as it gets some eyeballs thrown at it 21:39
a ticket is easier to keep track of 21:40
NotFound Agree
Done 21:49
RT#58988, for impatients ;) 21:52
cotto_work NotFound++ 21:53
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nopaste "kid51" at 71.247.55.226 pasted "[RFC] Call for new spec coverage mechanism: Is this okay for a starting place?" (5 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/14095 22:59
cotto_work newlines++ 23:00
kid51 Formatted better here: tinyurl.com/3ghvnn 23:01
cotto_work: I composed it in SubEthaEdit with paragraphs, then pasted it. I guess the newlines got eaten.
If that looks okay I'll start a new RT with it. 23:02
s1n @seen pmichaud 23:05
particle kid51: a few notes... we don't need to follow the pugs 'smartlink' standard, however it's a good starting point 23:13
also, we need to support design documents in various formats, for example:
parrot PDDs, perl 6 synopses, <some other language design doc> 23:14
that is, some tools in parrot (like pge) are designed based on documents not in parrot (Synopsis 5)
there will likely be one syntax for "smartlinks", but there will likely be different document parsers for the different spec doc types. 23:16
your writeup is a very good start. 23:17
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kid51 particle: Do you want to make any changes in that before I start an RT? I tried to make it as broad as possible. 23:28
Since I don't know much about this area, all I'm concerned with is an accurate starting point.
I mentioned HTML and smartlink ... but only as examples. 23:29
particle it's a good start. ship it! 23:30
kid51 k
With a little bit of editing, it's on its way. 23:37
thx for feedback.
23:44 Andy joined
GeJ Does anyone know if Parrot's config has a command-line option to look into multiple include directories? 23:58
for instance, looking in both /usr/include/ and /usr/local/include/ when in search of gdbm, crypto, opengl, etc... 23:59

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