www.parrot.org | Prepare for 1.6.0: Improve test coverage for NameSpace and Continuation PMCs / Stability! / Port tests to PIR / Performance! / No more big branch merging until after 1.6.0
Set by moderator on 8 September 2009.
00:07 Whiteknight joined
darbelo Whiteknight: I been waiting for you. I have a ton of patches today. ;) 00:09
cotto smolder? 00:12
purl smolder is sourceforge.net/projects/smolder or web-based smoke test aggregator used by developers and testers to upload (automated or manually) and view smoke/regression tests using the Test Anything Protocol (TAP). or smolder.plusthree.com/app/public_pr..._reports/8
duk3leto watches as darbelo dumps a truck-load of patches onto Whiteknight's front lawn
Whiteknight yay! patches
chromatic Ding and dash, ding and dash!
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darbelo Whiteknight: Actually, I was just messing with you. 00:13
darbelo got his bit today, he can commit his own patches now. 00:14
Whiteknight yay! darbelo++
kid51 looks through old TTs to see what he can dump on darbelo ;-)
duk3leto darbelo++ # congrats on your bit
darbelo preemptively dumps TT#986 on kid51 00:16
cotto kid51, ping
kid51 darbelo: I'm not sure I know how to solve anything about that one.
cotto pong
cotto nm. I was going to ask for a specific smolder failure, but I remember that you put one in your message to the list. 00:17
darbelo kid51: I'm about to commit that, actaully. But I had to pull a number from somewhere :) 00:18
kid51 go to smolder recent reports and filter on tag "darwin"
You'll see that the issue is probably more PPC than it is darwin.
cotto the thing is that the code in that file shouldn't even be run except as part of the profiling runcore. 00:19
I suspect the merge and hires_timer stuff is a red herring. 00:21
or a more indirect cause 00:22
kid51 cotto: I'm getting git-trained in another channel now, so I can't chat very much about that now. 00:23
cotto np
kid51 Can u post to list or in appropriate TT? thx
Whiteknight what is hires_timer? 00:26
dalek rrot: r41197 | darbelo++ | trunk/compilers (2 files):
Remove more strstart uses, this time from pirc and imcc.
Whiteknight oh, high-resolution
what is sig10 on darwin? 00:29
Coke SIGBUS 00:30
Whiteknight oh, ouch
mikehh rakudo (5960161) builds on parrot r411796 - make test / make spectest (up to r28216) PASS - Ubuntu 9.04 amd64 (g++) 00:31
rakudo - t/spec/S03-operators/arith.rakudo - TODO passed: 120, 131-132
rakudo - t/spec/S02-names_and_variables/perl - Non-zero wait status: 11 (Segfault after passing tests)
dalek TT #986 closed by darbelo++: Further ->strstart removals
Coke mikehh: I am getting a segfault on tclsh when running in interactive mode; I wonder if that's the segfault you're seeing on sporadic test files. 00:32
kid51 got run over by SIGBUS many times this week 00:36
mikehh coke: they seem relatively random to me - I run test make test a few times and I get some repeats but some one offs and noting that fails every time
Coke kid51: Welcome to my world! 00:37
Whiteknight can you try it out in gdb and try to get a backtrace?
Whiteknight needs to get a darwin box to develop on, eventually
cotto kid51, I hate to seem like I'm dumping this off, but I really don't see a way the profiling runcore could be causing those problems.
NotFound I'm working in some problems with PackFile_Segments, specifically in PackFile_Directory that may be the culprit of most segfaults, but I'm too tired now :O 00:38
cotto chromatic++ #running rakudo hello world with -Rprofiling under Valgrind got ~25% faster.
Whiteknight wow, nice 00:39
mikehh NotFound: feel a little that way myself - a lot of $work poroblems today
Whiteknight I can't wait to start seeing some of the data from that
chromatic That's not even the faster part.
mikehh NotFound: well yesterday for an hour or so 00:40
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nopaste "NotFound" at 213.96.228.50 pasted "patch: Working on packfile problems" (42 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17915 00:40
cotto I still need to replace Parrot_Context_get_info. It's taking ~86% of the time.
Coke cotto: what version of cg_annotate are you using?
chromatic I'm working on that now, cotto.
NotFound Here is, if someone want to look at it.
Whiteknight NotFound: me!
NotFound Still has problems, but shows the sources of problems. 00:41
cotto Coke, I haven't tried the output with cg_annotate.
Whiteknight so many of these slowdowns would disappear if GCC could optimize across compilation units 00:42
NotFound Whiteknight: good luck, I'm going to bed.
Whiteknight because all those context API functions could easily be inlined
cotto Coke, Also, it's likely to be goofy because I'm stuck getting my line and file information from imcc.
Coke at this point, cg_annotate fails for me entirely. 00:43
what are you using?
cotto kcachegrind
purl kcachegrind is GUI? or "me and the kache be bumpin' and grindin'"
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cotto Coke, it seems to work for me with callgrind_annotate-3.4.1-Debian 00:45
Whiteknight Also, internally we should be able to break encapsulation on the Context PMC. The API is only really necessary for external poking
in src/sub.c, I don't see any reason why we should be accessing important context information through API calls 00:46
Coke now that I'm back on my os x box, I see I tried to get kcachegrind working at one point.
won't start up, tough. 00:56
chromatic cotto, I know what to do in src/sub.c. I'm less sure what we need to do in src/runcore/profiling.c.
Coke anyone familiar with open's new modes that could map all of www.tcl.tk/man/tcl8.5/TclCmd/open.htm#M6 to them?
chromatic Can I give you Parrot_sub_get_line_from_pc and Parrot_sub_get_filename_from_pc?
Coke the + modes from tcl don't seem to have direct analoges. 00:57
"analogues"
cotto chromatic, sure
darbelo departs, driven to the hunt for food. 00:58
See y'all later.
00:58 darbelo left
chromatic Okay, hang on. 00:58
purl hang on. is this actually "session is still there but user has been deleted" ?
Whiteknight purl forget hang on 01:03
purl Whiteknight, I didn't have anything matching hang on
Whiteknight purl forget hang on.
purl Whiteknight, I didn't have anything matching hang on
Whiteknight purl you're retarded
purl Whiteknight: what?
Whiteknight you heard me
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chromatic purl, forget hang on. 01:04
purl chromatic, I didn't have anything matching hang on
Coke forget okay, hang on. 01:05
purl Coke, I didn't have anything matching okay, hang on
Austin hang on 01:06
okay, hang on
Okay, hang on.
purl it has been said that hang on. is this actually "session is still there but user has been deleted" ?
Austin purl, forget 'hang on.'
purl Austin, I didn't have anything matching 'hang on.'
Austin purl forget hang on.
purl Austin, I didn't have anything matching hang on
Austin sigh
Coke cotto: if I run kcachegrind /tmp/parrot.out.32261 on OSX, it just hangs. ah well. 01:07
dalek rtcl: r722 | coke++ | trunk/runtime/builtin/open.pir:
cleanup PIR
 01:08
rtcl: r723 | coke++ | trunk/runtime/builtin/open.pir:
add initial support for more short access modes.
chromatic Oh joy, I pushed a bunch of .gitignore files. 01:15
dalek rrot: r41198 | chromatic++ | trunk/src/runcore/profiling.c:
[runcore] Tidied code in the profiling runcore; no functional changes.
rrot: r41199 | chromatic++ | trunk (109 files):
[sub] Added helper functions Parrot_Sub_get_line_from_pc() and

Parrot_Context_get_info().
rtcl: r724 | coke++ | trunk/runtime/builtin/open.pir:
fix [open] with no access mode specified.
 01:19
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chromatic cotto, r41199 should get you where you need to go. 01:23
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cotto chromatic, great. I'll use that as soon sa I have some tuits 01:50
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dalek rtcl: r725 | coke++ | trunk/ (4 files):
make tcl_error opcodes more like [error] syntax.
 02:21
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Coke I am getting an error "object must be created by class" trying to do a VTABLE_assign_pmc . 02:35
looks like Parrot_scalar_assign_pmc 02:37
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dalek TT #999 created by coke++: convert some base_type to VTABLE lookups. 02:58
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Tene ONE MORE TO ONE THOUSAND! 03:41
jdv79 Coke: nopaste.com/p/ay5paS2Lgb 03:53
Coke jdv79: nifty; can you open a ticket at partcl.googlecode.com, i'll get it applied tomorrow. zzzz. 04:03
jdv79 k,nite 04:05
dukeleto chromatic: you can use .git/info/exclude as a place to store .gitignore stuff without worrying about it getting committed 04:20
bacek "git commit -a" considered harmful :) 04:26
Ryan52 or add .gitignore to .gitignore (iirc that works) 04:28
chromatic I didn't git commit -a... I think git svn git-ignore did it automatically. 04:29
Tene bacek: -a won't add new files. 04:34
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bacek Oookey. "*svn*" considered harmful :) 04:48
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Tene bacek: I'm reminded of meyerweb.com/eric/comment/chech.html 04:50
bacek Tene: yeah. I'm totally agree that "Considered Harmful" considered harmful :) 04:55
Tene :) 04:56
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jdv79 gmake[1]: *** [PGE.pbc] Segmentation fault 05:13
anyone else getting that?
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dukeleto jdv79: did you do a realclean? 05:16
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jdv79 yeah. its a vigin box. maybe something random is off... 05:20
*virgin
hmm, got me. any ideas? 05:26
dukeleto jdv79: full nopaste output would be useful 05:34
jdv79 nopaste.com/p/apw2xEb1ib 05:43
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sundar Hi.. I'm having some issues compiling parrot under 64-bit Windows. Is there any guide or anything like that specifically for Windows? 05:50
shockwave sundar, I was able to do it flawlessly after installing strawberry perl. 05:52
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sundar shockwave: Oh. I'm using Activestate's 64 bit perl (since mine is a 64 bit machine). 05:54
Specifically, when I try to do 'perl Configure.pl', I get 'test_4644.exe has stopped working' error for most of the lines. 05:55
shockwave sundar, I just started using Parrot myself, so I can't really help troubleshoot your problem other than answering your initial questions. 05:56
question*.
sundar shockwave: Ok... I was under the impression that this is some problem with Configure.pl detecting my C compiler. Will give Strawberry perl a try anyway. 05:57
shockwave cool 05:58
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dalek kudo: a0494f8 | pmichaud++ | build/PARROT_REVISION:
Bump PARROT_REVISION.
 06:05
jdv79 nopaste.com/p/ahhiotQTb - there's a larger dump 06:07
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mikehh back on i386 07:40
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chromatic NotFound, bacek, you might find r41200 interesting. 08:06
dalek rrot: r41200 | chromatic++ | trunk/src (3 files):
[pcc] Added context struct initialization to Parrot_pcc_set_sub(), specifically

PMCs already did this directly in their invokes, so moving this code here gets rid of a few function calls. There's a modest (0.733%) performance improvement in the oofib PIR benchmark, but the biggest benefit is removing duplicate code. There's more to go; perhaps the lex pad initialization code can move here too.		 08:07
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dalek rrot: r41201 | mikehh++ | trunk/MANIFEST:
manifest_tests failure - run tools/dev/mk_manifest_and_skip.pl
 08:53
dukeleto jdv79: do you have an installed parrot 1.5 ? sometimes odd things happen when you are building a newer version of the same parrot release that you have installed
jdv79: there should be a Configure.pl-time warning about it. if not, that is a bug
jdv79: which OS is this happening on?
dalek rrot: r41202 | mikehh++ | trunk (106 files):
set svn properties on .gitignore files
 09:00
dukeleto oy vey
mikehh I am not sure that was a good idea - I am now getting all those files want more properties set 09:03
moritz we have .gitignore files?
why?
mikehh presumably for the git svn folk 09:05
moritz they can use git-svn create-ignore or .git/info/exclude
anyway, I was just wandering, not complaining :-) 09:06
mikehh I was just trying to fix some codetest/manifest+tests failures and I think another approach is needed here 09:07
the got added by chromatic at r41199, I am not sure how we should deal with manifest/svn properties on them 09:16
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mikehh I somehow don't think those files should actually be in the MANIFEST 09:27
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mikehh I think I am going to undo those changes and we need to discuss this 09:44
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bacek_ o hai 09:56
masak o/
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dalek rrot: r41203 | mikehh++ | trunk (107 files):
undo the last two commits - I think this needs discussion
 09:59
Whiteknight pokes his head in for 5 minutes 10:01
mikehh Ok - anybody any ideas on what should be done with the .gitignore files introduced in r41199 10:05
bacek_ mikehh: they should be removed. 10:06
mikehh bacek_: we need some mechanism to either ignore them or prevent them from being re-introduced 10:12
bacek_ mikehh: I know only one good mechanism for this. But "The Architect" against it. 10:13
dalek TT #863 closed by fperrad++: GC Segfault 10:15
mikehh bacek_: if chromatic has them set up on his system we need for svn to ignore them or something 10:16
and I would be reasonably happy with git with some reservations 10:17
bacek_ "some reservations"?
mikehh actually I really don't care which version control system we use as long as it is consistent 10:18
and NOT cvs 10:19
bacek_ Why not CVS? It's "mature, robust and consistent"! Consistently bad actually :) 10:20
mikehh I have used hg, bzr, git and svn on a lot of projects - it is just remembering all the in-and-outs
bacek_ Yay! I finally helped fperrad++ with something broken in parrot :)
mikehh I personally would opt for bazaar - but as long as it does what we need 10:21
bacek_ mikehh: there is one main git feature that beats everything. It's bloody fast. 10:22
I usually commit every few lines of code and then rebase it to provide "perfect history". But it's my workflow. I don't try to force everyone else to use it. 10:23
mikehh I still think it's a lot more difficult to keep track of where you are in git, but that's just me 10:24
I have dealt in the past with mostly centralised systems and distributed ones sometimes get me confused 10:26
bacek_ They are... just different.
It's like using Perl after BASIC :) 10:27
mikehh actually I have no major problems with perl or rakudo
I'll have you know I taught a few courses in BASIC once upon a time - before Perl even existed :-} 10:28
bacek_ I did them too :) 10:29
Ok, time to make some dinner.
See you soon.
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bacek_ msg chromatic I think "clone" Context for Sub/Continuation should be properly encapsulated into some subroutine. 11:35
purl Message for chromatic stored.
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dalek rrot: r41204 | bacek++ | trunk/src/pmc/scalar.pmc:
[cage] Apply patch from TT#999 to use more VTABLE_type. Coke++
 12:22
TT #999 closed by bacek++: convert some base_type to VTABLE lookups. 12:24
rrot: r41205 | coke++ | trunk/docs/project/release_manager_guide.pod:
Attempt to make the google calendar the canonical calendar.
 12:29
rrot: r41206 | coke++ | trunk (107 files):
Remove the .gitignore files.
Coke there. we can think about how we want to make life easier for the git folk later. 12:31
(in partcl, I just went ahead and committed them, but I have no coding standards tests nor a large dev base. =-)
bacek_ Coke: so you can just migrate to git easily :) 12:40
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Coke bacek_: yup. if googlecode ever offers it, I'll probably switch. 12:52
dalek rtcl: r726 | coke++ | trunk/ (2 files):
Apply patch from jdv to enable smolder reporting for partcl!
 12:53
Coke IWBNI 'parrot_config' reported the parrot version.
(you can figure it out from versiondir, but ew.)
Coke hopes NotFound++ works more magic and fixes all these segfaults. :| 12:55
we currently have 21 open tickets that mention a segfault in trac alone. 12:57
(more in RT)
bacek_ Coke: he didn't fixed all of them yet? Bad NotFound :)
NotFound Coke: I have a version now that pass make test without any segfault, maybe leaking memory though 12:58
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NotFound That's really funny, a packfile segment destoy function pointing to Parrot_default_subtract :o 13:05
dalek TT #154 closed by coke++: subclassed ExceptionHandlers can't handle exceptions 13:07
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dalek TT #832 closed by coke++: segfault in _int_malloc 13:11
TT #321 closed by coke++: Segfault overriding init sub in PIR
TT #479 closed by coke++: Segfaulting in PGE;Perl6Grammar;Compiler;compile ... 13:14
TT #729 closed by coke++: Segfault on printing a String PMC assigned a null string
Coke there, now only real segfaults (or invalid ones that are too complex to verify) are left. 13:17
dalek TT #737 closed by coke++: imcc segfault when assigning to undefined retval 13:19
NotFound Coke: I left open some of that waiting for confirmation. I suppose that several months without answer is enough ;) 13:25
Coke NotFound: ayup. 13:26
NotFound++
is trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/995 the one you're working on now? 13:27
that's the biggest one for partcl atm.
(and might also be the root cause of rakudo's issues.)
I'm happy to test out a patch. =-)
dalek rrot: r41207 | mikehh++ | trunk/src/pmc/scalar.pmc:
codetest failure - there should be one space or a newline after a comma
 13:28
NotFound Coke: yes, but I think the problem is the same for lots of segfaults.
The PackFile structures is a little nightmare, that's the root of the problems. 13:29
Coke if there's a significant memory leak, I'm sure partcl will trip over it.
NotFound No idea on how significant can be, I left that for valgrind knowers
Coke k. ping me when It's in or there's a patch I can try. =-) 13:30
(I'll try out all my segfaults and then kick off a spectest run) 13:31
NotFound Coke: I'll commit it if a test I'm doing goes well. If not, I'll put the patch in TT #995
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dalek TT #1000 created by flh++: t/pmc/resizablefloatarray.t in PIR 13:47
fperrad first ticket wth 4 digits 13:51
dalek rrot: r41208 | mikehh++ | trunk (2 files):
codetest failure - run headerizer
 13:52
Coke flh++ # ticket #1k 13:56
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Coke it's my tiny pet dancer! 13:59
jdv79 dukeleto: no - there is no installed parrot as far as i know. i've never built parrot on this box. 14:00
its fedora linux 9 14:01
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particle why am i so happy that tt#1000 is a patch and not a bug? 14:02
NotFound A signal from the Parrot Gods?
(Hope is not a SIGKILL) 14:03
Coke particle: I was tempted to port over some bletcherous RT for #1000, but thought better of it. =-) 14:08
dalek rrot: r41209 | coke++ | trunk/tools/build/pmc2c.pl:
Convert RT #39142 to a documentation bug and fix it.
 14:16
Coke NotFound: rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=46687 14:21
NotFound Coke: "This problem will go away once packfiles are garbage collectable" Yeah, that's the reason I'm trying ugly and leaky workarounds 14:23
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NotFound BTW the PackFile structures uses lots of mem_sys allocations 14:29
dalek rrot: r41210 | NotFound++ | trunk/src (3 files):
[core] several fixes and ugly and maybe leaky workarounds to avoid segfault during destruction, TT #995 and others
 14:31
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NotFound Coke: forgot to ping you. Commited in r41210 14:45
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mikehh NotFound: I am getting some codetest errors - Failed test 'no unused assert macros' in include/parrot/sub.h 14:51
NotFound: I ran headerizer and clleared some other errors - but I still get those - help 14:52
Coke mikehh: those can typically be fixed by adding an ASSERT_ARGS at the top of the function. 14:53
(you can look at another function for the format)
something like ASSERT_ARGS(function_name)
NotFound mikehh: not my fault, but I'll take a look
Coke no, let mike! =-)
NotFound Ok
mikehh NotFound: I know - just asking - but Coke replied
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mikehh ok got it - trying now 14:55
NotFound whiteknight: What's the point of TT #656. I think we must let the garbage collector do his work. 14:56
whiteknight let me look
chromatic says there is a performance win by allowing the PMC to destroy itself early 14:58
we should test it both ways
NotFound Tell me a way to ensure that no one has an active pointer to that pmc, and I'll buy the argument. 15:01
Coke NotFound: verified, the ^D segfault is gone.
mikehh: please check that revision of parrot to see if your segfaults go away. 15:02
NotFound: oooh. history.test is not immediately segfaulting anymore... 15:03
completes...
mikehh Coke: will try it 15:05
Coke NotFound: trac.parrot.org/parrot/ticket/966 is still live. 15:06
dalek TT #961 closed by coke++: segfault in Parrot_oo_find_vtable_override
TT #962 closed by coke++: segfault in Parrot_Object_assign_pmc 15:07
rrot: r41211 | mikehh++ | trunk/src/sub.c:
codetest failure - no unused assert macros
Coke mikehh++ # woot. 15:08
NotFound_++ #super woot 15:09
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Coke NotFound: checking #965 now. 15:09
(mathop.test is big, though.) 15:11
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Coke We can leave 995 open; I've closed the ancillary tickets. 15:12
(that is, the ones that no longer occur after your fix for #995) 15:14
sadly, 965 still segfaults.
dalek rrot: r41212 | mikehh++ | trunk/src (2 files):
codetest failure - tabs in leading whitespace
Coke still, that's 3 segfaults gone out of 5 remaining. =-) 15:15
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NotFound Coke: Congratulations, you've been able to segfault gdb 15:17
Coke it's not me, it's parrot! =-) 15:18
dalek rrot: r41213 | cotto++ | trunk (3 files):
[profiling] start using Parrot_Sub_get_x_from_pc, clean some code and add notes on what doesn't dtrt yet
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jdv79 is parrot segfaulting on build anywhere else? 15:27
if getting on the box would help let me know 15:29
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Coke NotFound: yah, memory usage seems to be up. (expr.test dying sooner.) 15:34
(but it was already dying before)
NotFound Coke: The TclString get bool problem is just that vtable function calling himself
Coke NotFound: yes, but it's not explicitly calling itself. :|
NotFound Coke: is autoboxed in the pir part 15:35
Coke NotFound: autoboxing to TclString only happens in Tcl and _Tcl HLL's, not parrot. 15:36
(I think I already had this conversation with someone.)
NotFound Coke: you must have it with PGE ;)
Coke PGE is also in the parrot HLL.
purl okay, Coke.
Coke so, sure, the backtrace says it's calling itself (I assume that's where you're seeing this), but where in that PIR is causing that, or is it a bug? 15:37
mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, smoke, nqp_test, fulltest) at r41212 -Ubuntu 9.04 i386 (g++) 15:38
Coke I bet it's because we're throwing an exception inside a vtable.
NotFound Coke: autoboxing seems to happen here: match = true_s(self_s, 'grammar'=>'TclExpr::Grammar') 15:39
tclstring.pir get_bool 15:40
Coke ok. true_s is defined in parrot HLL.
so that should not be autoboxing.
... to a TclString
(and match is a PGE::Match, supposedly.) 15:41
let me see if I can find out what self_s is at point to see if I can get a smaller test case. 15:43
(this was on the mathop.test failure, eys?)
NotFound Let me check a stupid idea...
dalek rtcl: r727 | coke++ | wiki/SpecTestStatus.wiki:
NotFound++ # this segfaults are gone.
 15:44
NotFound Coke: Who may tests has t_tcl/mathop.test ? 15:48
pmichaud (.gitignore files) --- fwiw, only one .gitignore file should be needed, not one-per-directory
mikehh Coke - no segfaults in make test (that's on i386 mind)
Coke NotFound: tcl doesn't count their tests, they name them.
it was segfaulting after 24.2 15:49
sorry, after 'mathop-24.2'
NotFound Is still in 8-... X-)
Coke I'm running with a local mod to tclstring's get_bool to see if I can find out what boolean value is making it go crazy.
s/boolean/string/
mikehh partcl r727 builds on parrot r41212 - make test PASS - Ubuntu 9.04 i386 (g++) 15:50
Coke NotFound: what's your stupid idea?
NotFound Coke: Pass a 'String' PMC built with the string 15:51
Coke gah.
(only because that's another pmc created.) 15:52
NotFound I'll call it stupid for some reason ;)
Coke last two lines before segfault: 15:53
CHECKING BOOL: '1'
so I don't think it's recursing.
(before that is the output about what test just failed.)
NotFound That's new: src/call/context.c:1534: failed assertion 'Parrot_pcc_get_regs_used(interp, ctx, REGNO_PMC) > idx' 15:55
With just 59 stack frames.
whiteknight NotFound++ 16:03
dalek rrot: r41214 | dukeleto++ | trunk/t/pmc/resizablefloatarray.t:
[TT #1000][t] Convert t/pmc/resizablefloatarray.t to PIR, flh++
 16:07
NotFound Coke: my atempt of workaround gives a failure in the onscurities of PCC, I'll give up. 16:15
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dukeleto holy .gitignore churn, batman! 16:17
mikehh Coke I am getting random segfaults in rakudo now (on exit - PASS tests, except 1)) 16:18
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mikehh rakudo - FAILS t/spec/S12-introspection/walk.rakudo - test 9 - set_pmc() not implemented in class 'Failure' 16:20
dalek TT #1000 closed by dukeleto++: t/pmc/resizablefloatarray.t in PIR 16:21
dukeleto when is the commit deadline for 1.6 ? 16:27
NotFound mikehh: test or spectest?
16:35 whiteknight joined
whiteknight internet at work is shitty 16:36
16:50 einstein joined
darbelo Is it just me, or is op_append() a half assed, encapsulation breaking, imitation of Parrot_str_append() 16:51
whiteknight I don't think I've ever seen that function 16:55
pmichaud src/pmc_freeze.c 16:56
purl well, src/pmc_freeze.c is full of scary.
darbelo what pmichaud said. It's only used twice there.
NotFound purl++ 16:57
darbelo Apparently, so. I've just replaced it with that and make test is runing fine so far. 16:59
I've come to expect explosions everytime I touch the freeze code. Looks like I got it right this time. 17:01
NotFound darbelo: How? One of the arguments isn't a String
17:01 rindolf joined
nopaste "darbelo" at 200.49.154.172 pasted "[PATCH] replace op_append(), by use of Parrot_str_append()" (101 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17923 17:03
darbelo NotFound: It converts it to a char* and tacks it at the end of a string. That sounds like string_appending to me :) 17:04
I made the conversion to string explicit, and used the correct API for the appending. 17:05
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darbelo Mind, you. That Parrot_str_new() call is not as optimal as poking into the string's guts, but it was aiming for cleaner, not faster. 17:07
NotFound darbelo: I'm not sure that assuming that the default charset and encoding are compatible with plain binary usage is clean, but that file is doing it anyway... 17:09
nopaste "darbelo" at 200.49.154.172 pasted "[PATCH] replace op_append(), by use of Parrot_str_append()" (84 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17924
darbelo There was an extra hunk at the end of the patch. Repasted. 17:10
NotFound: Hmm, is there a binary-clean encoding availble? I could just Parrot_str_new_init() and use that. 17:11
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NotFound darbelo: there is binary charset whose prefered encoding is fixed_8 17:14
darbelo Yes, looking inside Parrot_str_new_init I see that Parrot_fixed_8_encoding_ptr is the only one that will do what freeze wants, I'll revise the patch. 17:16
dalek rrot: r41215 | allison++ | trunk/docs/pdds/pdd15_objects.pod:
[pdd] Some cleanups while reviewing object PDD, particularly:

   attributes and parents can only be added before the first object is
   instantiated from the class.
  - Clarified the differentiation between class methods and instance
   methods for 'can' and 'does'.
  - Removed the comment about Class and Role PMC's methods being supplied
   by a role. Unnecessary complexity.
  - Removed optional parameters to 'add_method' for selecting vtable
   override (that has a separate method now).
  - Added information on the 'add_vtable_override' method in the Class
   PMC.
  - Removed the mention of special handling for MultiSubs in 'add_method'
   for Class and Role, since there is none.
  - Modified the description of 'find_method' in Object and Class,
   matching current behavior (respecting the difference between class
   methods and instance methods).
  - Deleted (sketchy) information about object "container types". The base
   set of classes don't (and won't) store or respect that information,
   languages that need it will need more extensive support (which may
   eventually be merged into the base set).
  - Deleted 'remove_role' from Class and Role for consistency (the spec
   already said removing roles wasn't allowed).
NotFound "It makes no sense to try and search for a substring in raw binary data." What? 17:19
darbelo NotFound: You don't want a sub-string you want a sub-'raw binary data' :) 17:21
NotFound darbelo: And a 'binary' string isn't supposed to be that? 17:22
If not, kill the binary encoding and provide a raw byte buffer that isn't a string. 17:23
s/encoding/charset
pmichaud note that the word "string" really means "sequence of something" 17:35
as in "string of pearls" or "string of lights"
a string that has "fixed_8" encoding should be perfectly valid for "raw binary data". 17:36
Searching such a string makes perfect sense.
darbelo pmichaud: C programmers will want to put a NULL after those pearls :) 17:37
Tene and pascal programmers?
pmichaud darbelo: only if they're talking about "character string"
dalek kudo: 84296e4 | (Solomon Foster)++ | src/setting/Num.pm:
Fix implementations of the "forward" trig functions.

Note that many if not most of the inverse trig functions remain broken.
darbelo typical C library functions assume that, if Parrot's string subsystem is built on top of that, the Parrot does at well. 17:38
NotFound pmichaud: provided that is in the 'binary' charset. Otherwise is not supposed to be raw at all. 17:39
darbelo It's the only excuse I can think of for not allowing substring searches.
pmichaud I'm simply saying that searching for a subsequence in binary data makes sense.
NotFound darbelo: typical C functions are inheritances from the '70. Supposedly we are trying to build a modern system. 17:40
pmichaud: agreed 17:42
pmichaud afk, lunch & errands
nopaste "darbelo" at 200.49.154.172 pasted "[PATCH] kill op_append, replaced by Parrot_str_append(). All tests successful." (85 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17925 17:43
darbelo NotFound: does nopaste.snit.ch/17925 look sane to you? 17:44
chromatic +1, darbelo
NotFound darbelo: for consistency, I'll better also change the string creation in create_image 17:45
BTW, that enum_stringrep_one isn't yet deprecated? 17:46
darbelo NotFound: That one is _noinit, not _init 17:47
pmichaud chromatic: I tried the recycling of ResizableIntegerArray's in PGE, but didn't see _any_ performance improvement in PGE's spectests. 17:48
sorry, in Rakudo's spectests
(didn't see an improvement in PGE's spectests either... but)
darbelo But I can probably convert it too. Let me run some tests. 17:49
chromatic pmichaud, I didn't either... but let me do more profiling. 17:50
pmichaud okay
I have a slightly different patch to offer... just a sec
NotFound Parrot_str_new_init: "Don't call this directly." What???? 17:51
nopaste "pmichaud" at 72.181.176.220 pasted "updated recycle pool for PGE (for chromatic)" (91 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17926 17:52
pmichaud the #17926 version will also recycle cstack upon success when it's known that we don't backtrack into the regex
(it also adds a counter to see how many times we get RIAs from the pool instead of creating a new one)
Coke it makes me cry that we'd have to track that ourselves. :| 17:53
pmichaud however, masak++ asked a question earlier that points out to me a place where PGE is suboptimal for token/rule, so I'm going to see about fixing that. It should reduce a ton of GC pressure by avoiding the RIAs in the first place
17:53 iblechbot joined
pmichaud but I need to do lunch and shopping first 17:53
bbiaw
chromatic That's a better place to start. 17:55
Coke #17926 actually slows while.test down from 45.1s to 47.6s 17:57
(just one run each.)
avoiding Integers for ints is probably very helpful; what about Strings for strings? 17:58
17:58 rindolf left
chromatic That can help too, Coke. 17:59
Coke I'm thinking avoiding CodeString and just doing a string concat would be a win.
chromatic CodeString can be expensive. 18:02
whiteknight What exactly does CodeString do? 18:04
I've never looked at it closely enough to figure that out
chromatic It helps keep track of HLL annotations. 18:05
whiteknight oh. That doesn't sound like much 18:06
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Coke also gives you something like printf without having to wrap your args in an array. 18:09
which makes the embedded PIR code /much/ more reasonable.
(readable)
45.1/44.8 18:13
purl 1.00669642857143
dalek rrot: r41216 | darbelo++ | trunk/src/pmc_freeze.c:
Minor src/pmc_freeze.c cleanup: replace the op_append() function with calls to Parrot_str_append()
 18:16
ttbot Parrot trunk/ r41216 MSWin32-x86-multi-thread make error tt.ro.vutbr.cz/file/cmdout/92322.txt ( tt.ro.vutbr.cz//buildstatus/pr-Parrot/rp-trunk/ ) 18:21
Coke darbelo: you broke the build. you are SO in trouble. 18:25
NotFound Off with his head! 18:26
Coke src/pmc_freeze.c:336: warning: ISO C90 forbids mixed declarations and code 18:27
Coke wonders what compiler darbelo is using that he didn't get that error. 18:28
chromatic Anything built in this millennium, presumably.
Except Visual Studio.
Coke chromatic: I get that error on gcc.
because we turned on that waring. 18:29
chromatic I get the warning too, but it's not an error.
NotFound That has happened to me some times, while building with C++ and forget to try with C before commit.
Coke bah. misread my output, you are correct sir.
I blame gcc for lying and telling us we could make that an error.
chromatic The *best kind* of correct: technically correct.
Coke darbelo: anyway, move that PARROT_ASSERT down after the declarations. (or split up the declarations from the setting if you need it to happen sooner.) 18:32
NotFound Mmmm... we are already requiring that condition? 18:34
Coke TimToady, that's spelled cdr. 18:36
TimToady no, it's not; see the Steel slides 18:40
he's slanging Lisp up and down for that
ref is research.sun.com/projects/plrg/Publ...Steele.pdf 18:42
and I do think he's latched onto some fundamental ideas on parallelizability 18:43
18:45 fperrad_ joined
einstein can it be that the trunk does not compile at the moment? 18:45
18:45 kjeldahl joined
whiteknight fun slides! Makes me wish I paid more attention to Lisp in school 18:45
einstein: I think it might be broken right now, yes 18:46
einstein hmm ok
dalek rrot: r41217 | darbelo++ | trunk/src/pmc_freeze.c:
Move a PARROT_ASSERT to prevent a "mixed declarations and code" warning.
 18:47
whiteknight I once wrote my own Perl5-based expert system shell from the ground up to avoid the pain of learning a lisp-like expert system language
Coke especially if you're on windows.
does that help?
whiteknight: ah, exactly the kind of misplaced laziness that parrot has come to rely on.
;)
darbelo Coke: Your build unbroken now? 18:50
Coke darbelo: my build was not; I was pointing at the buildbot output. 18:52
einstein: can you try again? 18:53
(since you reported a problem pre 41217?)
dalek rrot: r41218 | chromatic++ | trunk/src (2 files):
[profiling] Made Parrot_Sub_get_line_from_pc() more correct for the profiling
 18:54
purl i think runcore is the part that actually executes the byte code
Coke TimToady: I imagine that would make a lot more sense to me if I were listening to the lecture or high on caffiene or back in college. :|
18:56 joeri joined
Coke ah. page 69 onward is in english. =-) 18:57
chromatic, cotto: does your version of cg_annotate work with the generated files? 19:01
chromatic yes.
19:02 szabgab joined
einstein ok its now building on my machine 19:02
Coke (can someone with sudo privs on feather update the callgrind tools?)
darbelo Wait, MSVC, a c++ compiler, failed to build parrot because *ISO C 90* forbids something. WTF? 19:05
whiteknight darbelo: you're running it in C mode 19:06
which means it travels back in time 20 years and acts stupid for the time
Coke hey, valgrind 3.5.0 claims to work on OSX 10.5 19:07
I have 10.4 :|
chromatic It's only been a decade since C99; won't you give Microsoft a break? They're still trying to figure out the PNG and CSS specifications.
Coke just builds his own vg on feather. 19:10
chromatic: I just updated cg_annotate to 3.5.0 - it still fails to deal with the .out file. 19:12
chromatic I don't know what to tell you, Coke. 19:13
darbelo Is there a way to make MSVC notice that we are being 100% compatible with c++ and not behave like we're still in the eighties? 19:14
nopaste "coke" at 72.228.52.192 pasted "Do my command lines look right, at least?" (10 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17927 19:15
chromatic That looks fine to me, Coke.
Coke k. thanks. 19:16
pmichaud 18:04 <whiteknight> What exactly does CodeString do? 19:18
18:05 <chromatic> It helps keep track of HLL annotations.
False.
I mean, that's not really the purpose of CodeString.
chromatic It's not the only purpose, I agree.
pmichaud It's not even the primary one. The primary method in CodeString is 'emit'
We used to have that in PIR, but switched it to its own PMC so it would be faster. 19:19
There's a significan't speedup by having it in C versus PIR.
*significant
but ultimately a CodeString concat should be exactly the same as a String concat 19:20
(since CodeString is just a subclass of String)
19:25 whoppix joined 19:30 theory joined
pmichaud
.oO( Why are my comments on CodeString always met with silence...? )
 19:31
chromatic What else is there to say? You wrote it and you know what it does better than anyone. 19:32
darbelo pmichaud: If you understand them enough to explain that much, it means we don't have to :)
pmichaud I dunno. I keep having to say it, though. (See TT #448.)
also various threads in parrot-dev
I'm just curious, not miffed. 19:33
chromatic Yeah, I agree with all of your comments in that ticket. 19:34
pmichaud anyway, if we could convert CodeString into an efficient StringBuffer of some sort, that would likely be a Win. 19:36
gotta pick up kids... bbiab
Coke I think "emit" in opcode form is "sprintf" 20:01
(not quite the same, but similar.) 20:04
pmichaud I tried using sprintf for what emit does. It was.... horrible. 20:09
dalek kudo: 3b63817 | pmichaud++ | docs/spectest-progress.csv:
spectest-progress.csv update: 436 files, 14267 (69.2% of 20603) pass, 5 fail

S32-str/samecase.rakudo aborted 5 test(s)		 20:13
20:30 particle joined
Coke list of BoD should be updated on wikipedia. 20:33
20:41 payload joined 20:53 ash_ joined
dalek rrot: r41219 | allison++ | trunk/docs/pdds/pdd15_objects.pod:
[pdd] Stray comma in code example, caught by Pod tests.
 21:01
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Tene chromatic: I have a segfault reproducable in 10 lines of pir 21:09
chromatic Is it a known segfault? 21:13
nopaste "tene" at 97.117.70.208 pasted "loadlib/thread segfault for chromatic++" (10 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17930 21:14
NotFound Tene: doesn't segfault for me 21:16
Tene NotFound: :(
NotFound linux amd64
Tene also linux amd64
ash_ Tene: that might be related to your OS or something, that doesn't segfualt for me... Parrot build 41181 21:17
NotFound r41218
Tene 41219
NotFound Only difference is a .pod
dalek rrot: r41220 | darbelo++ | trunk/docs/pdds/pdd15_objects.pod:
Reformat a paragraph to avoid lines longer that 78 characters and please t/codingstd/pdd_format.t
NotFound Tene: --optimize ? 21:18
Tene NotFound: no.
chromatic No segfault here.
Tene ><
NotFound I think I know the difference: no libsqlite here 21:19
Tene NotFound: replace it with any other .so
chromatic True, no libsqlite here either.
Tene libz 21:20
ash_ I have libsqlite3 and it works for me, i'll try a different lib
Tene libz should be available pretty widely.
NotFound Bingo
ash_ Did yours crash NotFound? 21:21
NotFound With libz, yes
chromatic Same here. 21:22
The backtrace says things go wrong starting in src/dynext.c in run_init_lib.
ash_ hmmm mine isn't crashing with both libz and libsqlite3 in mine, i am on OS X 10.6.1 though 21:23
Tene Over the past few days, I've been able to get a lot of errors from clone_interpreter, but they've all been exceptions, NPMCA, get_string not implemented, etc. This is the first segfault.
ash_ i'll try updating parrot and see if it still happens
NotFound I think the problem may be related to library handles
chromatic #7 0xb7e1a7c4 in Parrot_dlsym (handle=0x80d96e0, symbol=0x81c1478 "Parrot_lib_libz_load") 21:24
Tene This came out of trying to evaluate the patches on tt757, but I don't really understand what's going on in there.
chromatic Do we have a libz with that symbol?
Tene chromatic: with sqlite, it says: #6 0x00007ffff7b5d493 in Parrot_dlsym (handle=0x6ab940, symbol=0x7c87e0 "Parrot_lib_libsqlite3_load") 21:25
chromatic My guess is no such symbol.
ash_ just update to r41220 and it still doesn't segfault 21:26
chromatic Random patch. 21:28
nopaste "chromatic" at 72.87.39.97 pasted "Silly workaround for Tene's segfault" (16 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17931
chromatic This isn't the most correct solution, but it gets around the problem for me.
21:29 Whiteknight joined
chromatic Whatever we do, we can't assume that we can dlopen random shared libraries, rummage around for a Parrot_* prefixed symbol, and call that as a function. 21:31
That's definitely a recipe for crashes.
nopaste "tene" at 97.117.70.208 pasted "chromatic: think I could get you to look at this case too?" (14 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17932 21:33
chromatic No crash here. 21:35
Tene ... oh. :(
chromatic No difference with or without that patch. 21:36
Tene chromatic: what if you change it to: load_language 'perl6' ?
chromatic Change what and where? 21:37
purl chromatic: that doesn't look right
nopaste "tene" at 97.117.70.208 pasted "Like this" (14 lines) at nopaste.snit.ch/17933
NotFound I think there is a problem with Parrot_clone_lib_into, doesn't look like getting the handle from the right place.
21:38 fperrad left
chromatic I don't have perl6 installed. 21:38
Tene you could load_bytecode 'perl6.pbc' from rakudo's build dir. 21:39
chromatic Will do.
Tene There are some patches on tt757, but I don't understand what's going on well enough to understand them. 21:41
NotFound That was. 21:46
Some objection to add vtable get_pointer to ParrotLibrary ?
chromatic Makes sense.
NotFound With that, the fix is easy.
mikehh All tests PASS (pre/post-config, smoke, nqp_test, fulltest) at r41220 -Ubuntu 9.04 i386 (g++) 21:54
dalek rrot: r41221 | NotFound++ | trunk/src (2 files):
[core] add get_pointer vtable to ParrotLibrary and use it in Parrot_clone_lib_into, solving a problem reported by Tene++ on irc
 21:55
22:00 rdice joined
mikehh partcl r727 builds on parrot r41220 - make test PASS - Ubuntu 9.04 i386 (g++) 22:02
22:12 theory joined 22:20 kid51 joined 22:25 davidfetter joined 22:27 davidfetter joined
mikehh rakudo (3b63817) builds on parrot r41220 - make test PASS / make spectest (up to 28220) FAIL - Ubuntu 9,04 i386 (g++) 22:28
jdv79 anyone one this build segfault?
i don't know enough to triage it.
darbelo jdv79: Build segfault? Where? 22:29
jdv79 something to do with PGE.pbc
mikehh rakudo - 1 direct fail - t/spec/S12-introspection/walk.rakudo - Non-zero exit status: 1 - Parse errors: Bad plan. You planned 10 tests but ran 8.
darbelo jdv79: Can you point me to a ticket or nopaste describing it? 22:30
jdv79 i guess i'll push a ticket
Whiteknight doesn't fail when I build
jdv79: what system?
purl system is down is at www.homestarrunner.com/sbemail45.html
jdv79 it doesn't fail with the same OS on another box of mine either
mikehh rakudo - ./perl6 t/spec/S12-introspection/walk.rakudo - fails with (after ok 8):
rakudo - set_pmc() not implemented in class 'Failure'
rakudo - in regex _block424 (t/spec/S12-introspection/walk.rakudo:92)
rakudo - called from method Perl6Object::WALK (src/gen_setting.pm:1871)
rakudo - called from Main (t/spec/S12-introspection/walk.rakudo:94)
rakudo - t/spec/S03-operators/arith.rakudo - TODO passed: 131
rakudo - I got 112 tests PASSing but exiting with Non-zero wait status: 11
jdv79 nopaste.com/p/ahhiotQTb 22:31
chromatic The Rakudo problem looks like accessing the wrong constants. 22:32
Whiteknight when I check out rakudo, do I have to do it in /languages/rakudo from parrot trunk?
chromatic src/call/pcc.c:609 or so
Whiteknight urg, that whole pcc.c file needs to burn and die 22:33
chromatic Yep. 22:34
Whiteknight I keep hoping our lady of blessed PCC refactoring will hear our prayers and smite it
darbelo jdv79: Are you by any chance on Fedora or Red Hat? 22:35
jdv79 yes, fedora 9
mikehh I've got rakudo checked out in $HOME/rakudo and parrot in $HOME/parrot 22:36
jdv79 is there a known issue?
22:36 sri joined
Whiteknight holy crap, I just coretested in 36s 22:36
personal best!
chromatic My best is 28.
Whiteknight chromatic: show-off
jdv79 rakudo spectest is the worst 22:37
mikehh after building parrot I run sudo make install-dev and in rakudo perl Configure.pl --parrot-config=/usr/local/bin/parrot_config
Whiteknight either way, my time has been steadily trending downward as we've made fixes following context_pmc3
darbelo jdv79: Then it's probably SELinux interference here, I think setting that to 'premissive' was the standard workarround.
jdv79 oh wow. i didn't notice that was on. thanks. 22:38
darbelo auto::jit - Determine JIT capability...p = 0x8940000 PAGE_SIZE = 4096 (0x1000)
failure: Permission denied
purl Permission denied is sort of self-explanatory
darbelo .........................yes.
The configure probe fails with permission denied, but still repports you platform as JIT-capable. 22:39
Segfaulting ensues.
Whiteknight mikehh: How do you have the different directories? my rakudo Configure.pl can't find parrot_config 22:40
mikehh what you guys usin' - my best is about 50 seconds 22:41
darbelo Whiteknight: you need --parrot-config=/path/to/parrot_config OR --gen-parrot
chromatic TEST_JOBS=5 make -j5 coretest
mikehh Whiteknight: I insatll parrot - sudo make install-dev (default) and in rakudo - perl Configure.pl --parrot-config=/usr/local/bin/parrot_config 22:42
22:42 rg1 joined
jdv79 hmm, i didn't notice that 22:42
is there a way to warn about sellinux?
that'd be swell
*selinux 22:43
Whiteknight mikehh, darbelo: Okay, I think I have it
darbelo jdv79: I have no idea, I'm on BSD. I just remembered the SELinux issue when I saw that on the nopaste. If it makes you feel better the current JIT is on it's way out :) 22:44
jdv79 i'll know in a minute if i feel better when it builds 22:46
mikehh still takes me about 60 seconds 22:48
darbelo mikehh: You probably need more cores then :)
The rule of thumb for make -j is number of cores + 1 22:49
mikehh ok down to 46 if I use 9 22:50
kid51 jdv: Try: perl Configure.pl --verbose-step=auto::jit 22:51
22:52 MoC joined
mikehh I don't think the -j has any effect running under t/harness 22:53
Coke mikehh: that's TEST_JOBS
mikehh just the TEST_CORE=n
sorry - just the TEST_JOBS=n
Coke you could do "make TEST_JOBS=3 -j3 test" to build and test in || in one step. 22:54
mikehh ha - make coretest TEST_JOBS=20 - Files=226, Tests=6423, 28 wallclock secs ( 2.00 usr 0.49 sys + 34.86 cusr 16.48 csys = 53.83 CPU) 22:57
jdv79 darbelo: that was it - thanks 22:58
Whiteknight mikehh: how many cores does yourmachine have? 23:01
Coke hey, cg_annotate is a perl script. 23:02
mikehh Whiteknight - 4 AMD Phenom II 940 3.0 GHz with 8GB ram
Whiteknight oh yeah, so you're rocking that
mikehh built it myself a couple of months ago 23:03
23:03 Zak joined
mikehh the motherboard allows for 16GB but that is far too expensive 23:04
so I got 4x 2GB DDR2 1033 23:05
Coke chromatic, cotto: can one of you post a .out. file that works for you? 23:06
aha. it's not us. this version of callgrind can't deal with this verison of valgrind, either. :| 23:12
(installed version of perl6 on feather is borked)
(val grinned? who knew.) 23:15
jdv79 treed: nopaste.com/p/aEi9Ims9nb 23:16
mikehh managed to get it down to 22 seconds - make coretest TEST_JOBS=40 - Files=226, Tests=6423, 22 wallclock secs ( 1.66 usr 0.41 sys + 28.06 cusr 12.50 csys = 42.63 CPU) 23:21
treed Huh?
jdv79: How old is that? 23:22
I don't run ?0 at all.
jdv79 what do you mean how old 23:26
?
how would i know?
rake, version 0.8.99.3 23:27
treed Recent revision of cardinal? 23:28
jdv79 latest
treed k
I won't have much time to look into this kind of stuff for a couple days.
Coke chromatic: AIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH
treed I'm starting a new job on Monday. 23:29
And the new job necessitates a move.
Coke msg chromatic it's callgrind_annotate. not cg_annotate.
purl Message for chromatic stored.
Coke works fine.
(*#&$#
chromatic Good to know.
jdv79 might be file perms, treed - retrying 23:30
treed k 23:31
jdv79 nope 23:35
mikehh decnum_dynpmcs r181 builds on parrot r41220 - make test PASS - Ubuntu 9.04 i386 (g++) 23:36
jdv79 treed: i guess i'll wait til you're back 23:41
thanks
Coke feather.perl6.nl/~coke/power.profile - from tcl.pbc -q examples/power.tcl 23:46
23:48 s1n joined
chromatic Lots of parsing. 23:50
Coke ayup. 23:51
that's code.google.com/p/partcl/source/bro.../power.tcl 23:52
pmichaud: hey, did you have a change to poke at tcl? 23:56
jdv79 Coke: my first 100% partcl smolder run. nice. 23:58

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